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What 2D GUI Foundation Do You Use?
Zmee writes "I am looking to build a 2D application for personal use and I will need to use a canvas to paint custom objects. I am trying to determine what foundation to use and have not located a good side-by-side comparison of the various flavors. For reference, I need the final application to work in Windows; Linux is preferred, but not required. I have looked at WPF, Qt, OpenGL, Tcl/Tk, Java's AWT, and others. I have little preference as to the language itself, but each of the tutorials appear to require significant time investment. As such, I am looking to see what the community uses and what seems to work for people prior to making that investment."
HTML and Javascript?
Nothing is easier for amateurs, even though I'm no Microsoft fan.
You haven't provided nearly enough information. Are you talking GUI interfaces, or rendering? If rendering, is it raster or vector? If vector, then what primitives do you need? Full SVG? Is this real-time, and if so, how many polygons / pixels do you need to push and at what minimum framerate?
As a totally shoot-from-the-hip, off-the-wall recommendation, I'd say OpenGL for portability, including support on iPhone / iPad / iPod touch. Note that you'll want to stick to the OpenGL ES subset in that case.
Better known as 318230.
I'd use Java AWT or OpenGL. They're both cross-platform, and what you learn will can be easily leveraged elsewhere, since they're widely adopted technologies. (No matter what you pick, you're going to have some learning curve.)
FLTK (www.fltk.org) is still in active development and is my cross-platform toolkit of choice - C++-based, easy to use, and works on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X with ports for other platforms available.
I print, therefore I am.
Having used everything on the list and much more (such as wx, GTK, etc), as well as making my own toolkits for embedded devices and products, my personal experience tells me hands down that Qt is the best choice for anything GUI related. It's power, ease of use, tools, documentation and learning curve are unparalleled to this day and age. Any other toolkit or API I've use fails in one or more of such areas.
Qt is the only toolkit that made me feel as if they could know in advance everything i'd ever need (so when i go to the docs it's there, right how as i imagined it should be), yet keeping the bloat down with great modularization. I have used it from C++ as well as from Python with great success.
I use the Qt framework at home and at work and I have published a couple teeny GPL'd apps:
Regardless of which framework you decide to use, I wish you luck!
OpenGL? "Lightweight"? Sure, I suppose because it's all implemented in the system, you don't have to redistribute much, but have you actually ever written anything remotely complicated in raw OpenGL? For anything resembling a GUI, the poster is going to spend months of writing low-level code that's been done a thousand times already.
Qt is heavy, but it's heavy for a reason - it includes a very nice set of tried-and-true widgets, with all the nice features and weird corner cases thought of already. It's also fairly speedy, and even more so if you use QGraphicsView, which can be optionally accelerated via OpenGL for even more speed.
Qt also has nice support for custom widgets. You can subclass any widget, or QWidget, and make anything you want. You can even integrate your custom widgets with Qt Designer, either by promoting a placeholder widget, or writing a Designer plugin so your widget is WYSIWYG.
OpenGL is so low level that everything I talked in the last two paragraphs is completely beyond its scope. Even font rendering is rather arduous, and good luck with nicely word-wrapped, formatted text.
Stop suggesting various toolkits, that is NOT what he is looking for.
He is looking for a "canvas" widget, meaning he wants drawing API.
It is unfortunate that most drawing apis are tied to particular toolkits, so he may have to choose one, but if you are comparing them you have to compare the 2D drawing primitives.
There is also Cairo and OpenGL, which are not really tied to toolkits. Though you still need to jump through hoops depending on the toolkit to get it so the graphics calls draw where you want. Sigh.
I second the parent post. However, in my opinion, OpenGL only is pretty tough to use. It takes a lot of knowledge. (GLUT can help to get you started.)
Where OpenGL would require you to program too much functionality from scratch, I personally recommend QT, using OpenGL only where you need it. QT is easy to learn, easy to code for, provides *tons* of functionality, and it performs great. In fact it performs well enough for very heavy 3D animation software to rely on it. (Maya has now been rewritten to use QT, and it is a big improvement.) You can paint your own custom anything, and even easily integrate 3D into your project. I really can't say enough good things about QT. It is now available under the LGPL, so you can use it for open source or closed sourced projects.
As mentioned above by the parent, QT isn't lightweight, but it isn't a pig either. You can use as much or as little of the toolkit as you like, and it can run very fast and have very low overhead. It is light enough that Nokia is using it as their primary development framework for mobile apps with their upcoming Meego based phones. From my personal experience QT flies.
Also, I've had great results with PyQt and with PySide. PySide is the new, "official" binding for QT on Python. They have examples in their demo folder of custom canvas based applications, and they work great and are easy to follow. You can have your own similar program, written from scratch in Python, up and running in 10 minutes.
It should also be noted that because QT works so well cross-platform, it has a huge advantage over toolkits that are tied to a single operating system. (Particularly those from MS.) In my own work, I won't even consider using something that doesn't run on Windows, Mac, Linux, and potentially more operating systems. I use all kinds of devices, and I don't want to be tied down. QT makes cross platform development straightforward, and software like Autodesk Maya is proof that it works even for highly complex projects.
I know I'm starting to sound like a salesman, but my experiences really have been that positive. About the only downside is that there aren't current C# or Java bindings for it. This doesn't matter to me though, because I've got C++ where I need performance and Python where I want ease of use. (With Cython, you can easily have performance and ease of use at the same time.)
I hope that helps.
Who suggested Java AWT? What is this, 1998? Someone is behind on their homework :).
Java's Swing + Java2D is *fully hardware accelerated* (ever since Java 1.6.0_u10 some time ago), multi-platform, with good multi-thread support (not for rendering, you don't need that, but for the rest of the program), very customizable, and looks fantastic with the Nimbus look&feel (a standard part of Java). Swing is used a lot on the enterprise desktop (and a few shrink wrapped products too - I know I've purchased some as they were best-of-breed tools). Many of the Java Swing ttools are free and there are a lot of them (eg. Matisse in Netbeans makes creating GUIs a snap). Java2D had extensive contributions from Adobe who happen to know a thing or two about presentation. Plus, drawing in Java2D also allows printing relatively simply.
I use QT and love it too, but it has some serious drawbacks, from my perspective. The biggest is that it requires a wonky special compilation system. You either have to use the build system they offer (qmake) or you have to manually run their generator yourself (moc - though if you were a masochist you could learn to write out the files moc makes yourself and avoid using it).
I compare every IDE to Eclipse, because that's the best IDE I've seen for any language. But I've never found that CDT, the C++ plugin for Eclipse, is any good. It fails to work out of the box for me and is a pain to configure (but I haven't tried it in a few years). QT Creator, while usable, is really an immature product. There's no support for refactoring, the UI is unintuitive and awkward (for me, at least) and there's lots of little issues with it. Plus you're committed to MingW, which can be a problem depending on what libraries you want to use. Codeblocks is a pretty good IDE, but it doesn't have a QT plugin, so you're left with the problem of dealing with moc files. Visual Studio has a plugin, but it only works with the paid versions.
All of this can be dealt with (and I do) but it's annoying.
Out of everything I've tried (pretty much everything usable from C, C++, and C#), WPF is the best UI framework around. It is extremely flexible and can be very intimidating if you try to learn all the details too quickly, but the basics of it are easy. You should be able to pop out a good design pretty quickly. It's a shame that Mono has no plans to implement it, because everything else feels primitive in comparison.
If you don't mind dirtying your C++ with a less-than-modern design and ugly preprocessor hijinks, Qt can be a pretty solid framework. Works well on many platforms and is full of features. Has a lot of portable non-UI things too, but I haven't used much of it.
Python's UI stuff is simple but has a lot of features. Great for quick, portable apps. Easy integration with C++ if you need it.
I avoid wxWidgets. The last time I tried using it (about a year ago), I ended up very frustrated rooting around their code to find that it makes a bunch of stupid assumptions about things like DPI, default fonts, etc. that fall apart pretty easily.
I also avoid GTK, but mainly just because it always feels "off" on Windows.
Hmmm... Where do I start. The "Python UI stuff" that you are talking about is probably tk. It's worth noting that you can use tk from many other languages besides python, python wasn't the first language to support tk, and tk isn't the only "UI stuff" that you can use in python. (For example, most of the GUI python stuff I've written has used Qt, which you imply requires working in C++.) For bonus points, you can even try to import Qt, catch an exception if that fails, and use tk to do your UI if Qt is unavailable on the system where you are running. All in one script, extremely portable, and nicer looking than tk whenever possible.
As for Qt in C++, as an application developer, I don't really care if the build system is a bit wonky. When I put on my architect hat, I can certainly say that Qt is a giant monstrosity that is very different from anything I would have created on my own. But, that sort of philosophical issue doesn't really effect anything when you are making an app.
I don't have much time... I write the GUI, and any drawing logic with Tcl/Tk. Easy, portable. Any time critical or extensive logic gets pushed into C or FORTRAN (depending on what it is). Just standard in/standard out. Parse the output with Tcl, and display.
A recent example -- I needed to upgrade some systems for a client (Solaris 6 to 10). We needed to identify the binary parts (non-OS) that needed to move. I wrote a GUI tool (binport) for this. Took 2 days to write, ran on Linux and MacOS X (two of us shared the work). After the job, the tool was essentially discarded.
No time to "debug" really, and I don't typically have time for compile and test cycles. Tcl is an interpreter, with very simple syntax and semantics.
Other examples that have used Tcl/Tk -- the GUI layer for GDB, Redhat Source Navigator, etc.
Yes, it's not "sexy", or even particularly "new", but it works, and works well.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
I'll create a GUI interface using Visual Basic, see if I can track 2D canvas objects.
Personally I prefer Java + Swing. Add Java2D and you have everything you need. If you want it to look native, there's a way to do that. It will run everywhere Java is available and since you say this is a personal application you don't need to worry about end-user problems. Plus, if you ever want to get it to work on Android or Blackberry phones then you'll already have a head start.
I'd also recommend using SpringLayout, it's the simplest way to get things looking right.
(For those that missed the reference, this is it)
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)