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Causing Terror On the Cheap

jhigh writes "Bruce Schneier posts on his blog today about the value of terror with respect to cost-benefit for the terrorists. If you look at terror attacks in terms of what they cost the terrorists to implement, compared with what they cost the economy of the nation that was hit, the reward for terrorists is astronomical. Add in the insane costs of the security measures implemented afterward, particularly in America, and it's easy to see why the terrorists do what they do. Even when they're unsuccessful, they cost us billions in security countermeasures."

20 of 448 comments (clear)

  1. Well, Duh! by mschaffer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's face it, I don't know if the Terrorists have "won", but we have surely lost. Terrorists have changed our lives, robbed us of many of our guaranteed rights and freedoms (in the US this has occurred with the aid of our government), and we are paying for it every day (and not just with dollars).

    1. Re:Well, Duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They wouldn't have won if the cowards who think all these trampling of our rights were "necessary" to be safe. Also, it wouldn't happen folks would get it through their think skulls that it's impossible to be safe, the Government will only make it look like they're keeping us safe; and in the meantime, folks are still playing dice with their lives while they tool down the highway yakking on their cell phones without any concern for their lives.

      People are stupid.

    2. Re:Well, Duh! by Garridan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We've been pretty good about the whole "don't negotiate with terrorists" ideal. However, we should do one better, and "don't acknowledge terrorists". We flinch and whimper and crawl into a fetal position at the loss of a handful of lives, or, in the case of the 2009 christmas attempt, a few hairs on some idiot's scrotum.

    3. Re:Well, Duh! by Drew_9999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Terrorists have... robbed us of many of our guaranteed rights and freedoms

      No, they didn't. We gave them up.

    4. Re:Well, Duh! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its even worse than that - the US Government isn't just suspending the rights of its own citizens, it affects EVERYONE who has to interact with them. I did not vote upon Canadian Representatives based on their policies of airport security because it wasn't an issue when the elections were held. Now that the issue has arisen and body Scanners are in Canadian Airports... wait who approved that? My Government? My government bowed to your government. And a dozen other countries along with it. I merely want to visit an American city for my vacation - I have high hopes though as I haven't heard any fondling stories taking place Canada (yet) because I don't believe our airport security HAS to take orders from the TSA and I don't think we've employed the "enhanced pat-down technique". This means I'm allowed to Opt out and get a regular pat down -
      but I don't know if thats the case in the UK - I believe the law there recently (might have changed) was that you might get selected for Body scanning (possibly at random) and if you are selected, you have two options: Take the scan or not fly. That is their only opt-out.

      Really now - the worst part is - this is the case even if I don't plan to stay in the States. If I want to go to Mexico there will no doubt be a stopover somewhere Stateside. It doesn't seem fair that their airport security policy applies to me even if I'm only there for an hour inside the same airplane. Really, there should be another method to handle those flights if they are really concerned (segregrated runway, new terminal, etc).

      Please - I know US Citizens don't have a whole lot of power when it comes to running your country, and that most of the time it's run by powers far beyond your control - but if there's ANYTHING I could ask from you guys, it's to create enough of an outcry over issues such as this that BOTH parties take a negative stance to it - like how it was important for the US to have a "Pull out of Iraq" plan for the last election even if not completely implemented or immediately soon, it pushed some steps in the right direction.

    5. Re:Well, Duh! by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly this.

      Folks, they're terrorists. The point is terror. The more you worry about them, the more they've won.

      And people who make a big deal about them and about fighting them are doing exactly what the terrorists want, what the terrorists need. To be effective, terrorists need your support, in the form of your active fear. Quit giving it to them. Try this instead: focus on how many deaths we suffer from car accidents each year, or even just eating badly. Put things into perspective.

    6. Re:Well, Duh! by Achra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, we didn't. They were taken from us. Systematically and by both parties of government.

      --
      Each processor would proceed sequentially as if it had been better for them not to rise against Saul.
    7. Re:Well, Duh! by drooling-dog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      i never gave anything up.

      I'll be looking for you in the next airport security line, then.

      Most people don't feel it (at first) when their rights are taken away, because they're submissive to authority and have no desire to attract its wrath by rocking the boat. As humiliations mount, they justify them by thinking, "Well, this is necessary to protect us from the terrorists."

      Are your rights intact because you're standing up for them, or because you're not planning on using them anyway?

  2. follow the money by bugi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So who benefits financially?

  3. Schneier hates security theater... by GPLDAN · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I applaud Bruce for railing against it, and Marcus Ranum too in his even more pointed criticism in his books. But what they are railing against is the military industrial complex, and their complaints have as much power as Eisenhower's at the end of his term, when he cautioned the American people not to let it take over.

    Too. Late.


    Guys like Richard Clarke write books about the upcoming CyberWar, they are abetted by Chinese BGP attacks that they couldn't be more thrilled about, because they have founded security firms that are already lobbying on K Street. Wake up. This is big business and the Blackwaterization of airports, the internet, the highways, it's begun and it won't stop. Not when the MSNBC poll is running 75-25 in favor of classifying Julian Assante a terrorist.


    Poor Daniel Ellsberg, living long enough to see all his pentagon paper work undone in broad brushstrokes. Nixon didn't live to see the American security state flourish, he'd have been flush with joy had he lived. He and Charles Colson would have danced a little jig with Henry Kissinger, the merry assassins of democracy were simply ahead of their time.

  4. Simple solution by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The simple answer is to stop wasting money on shit like this. Something that kills less people per year than farm animals is not something to be wasting money on. When the towers fell we should have rebuilt them 10 stories taller, and locked the cockpit door. That should have been the end of that. Instead we waste money on ineffective security and act like a bunch of Nancys.

    1. Re:Simple solution by DrgnDancer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then theres the hobo's everywhere that you never know if they will try to mug you.

      Meanwhile, people bitch about our right to own guns which essentially protects against this sort of thing.

      The first quote explains, to an extent, why the second quote happens. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge gun control guy. I often question the usefulness of carrying a gun for the majority of people (I really don't think most people have any reasonable chance to employ a concealed weapon in most attack scenarios without getting themselves killed), but I don't question your right to do so... most of the time. Then I see stuff like this and I wonder if maybe taking away everyone's guns and giving them a blankey isn't a good idea.

      Surely you must see that you are reacting to the same fear as the anti-terrorism security theater people are? The fear that some unknown "other" is going to do bad things to you for no other reason than they are different and often less fortunate? You're also reacting in exactly the same way, grabbing onto something that makes you feel like you'll be better able to protect yourself whether it'll be effective or not. A gun is not a self defense panacea. It will not protect you from "hobos" by itself. It's a tool. If you spend the necessary hours (and hours and hours) to learn to use it properly, it has some usefulness in some self defense situations. I'm not talking about a gun safety course and a few hours on the range making sure you can hit the broad side of a barn... I'm talking man-days spent working draw and fire drills, accuracy on moving targets, and accuracy while moving yourself. Plus knowing when to use these things so the guy with the already drawn weapon or his backup in the shadows don't blow you away before you accomplish anything.

      Of course even if you spend the time to do it right, you're still just learning all this stuff and carrying the weapon in reaction your fear, the same as the guy who submits to the strip search is reacting to his fear of terrorist. So now we have a scared guy with a gun walking down the street waiting for the first "hobo" to act suspiciously enough to let him use it. Great. It's nearly enough to make me become a 'huge gun control guy". It really is.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    2. Re:Simple solution by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm afraid that you've misunderstood.

      "We are the United States of America. We are the most powerful country that has ever existed in the history of this planet. We spend more on the opening weekend of a movie than most countries have as the entire GDP. We provide trade or aid to every country on the planet, be it friend or foe.

      And for that, we have been attacked. Thousands of American citizens -- not soldiers, just people going to work -- were killed by murderers who seek only to sow chaos and have us go to their countries and destroy it from without. We could."

      *pause for a sip of coffee*

      "With no more effort than a drink of coffee, I could destroy any country and make it unlivable for man or bug forever. But I won't because you don't hurt children that don't know any better. What we are going to do is find you, the men responsible for this, and bring you to trial for murder. If you are found guilty you will be put to death in a sterile, clean, and merciful fashion. You will not be martyred. We are offering a bounty of $100 million dollars plus US citizen status for information leading to arrest. That is enough money to literally buy Muslim paradise for the rest of your life.

      "What else we will do is rebuild these towers and the pentagon, and do so by the end of this year. Your master stroke will be erased and you will have nothing to show for it. The best you can do, and we will erase it and move on. We will not seek revenge on those near you; just on you. In a year, who will even believe you?

      Ladies and Gentlemen, we have work to do."

      -- speech given in another universe; September 12, 2001.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
  5. Re:Goals by metrometro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The goal or Al Queda, is and always was to transform the Islamic world along their fundamentalist ideals. Their best idea of how to do that is convince Muslims they are under attack from a powerful outside enemy, and that Al Queda is leading the resistance. The US has played it's part in this game, from their point of view, perfectly.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid US policy to take this bait.

  6. Re:Wrong end of the Cold War by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Cold War is a good example; the US spent a relatively small amount arming the terrorists in Afghanistan, forcing the USSR to spend a lot more to maintain their occupation. Similarly, the Star Wars project (in spite of being a complete failure as a real weapons system) forced the USSR to spend huge amounts on launch capability to be able to be sure of getting missiles past the (nonexistent) shield.

    Wars have been won and lost because of economics for a long time though. Napoleon understood this when he said that an army marches on its stomach - the supply chain can lose a war just as easily as enemy action.

    One of the examples that's now used when teaching this stuff is a brief engagement from the last Golf War, when an Apache helicopter popped up over a hill, sighted a convoy, and destroyed it. The convoy was made of trucks worth, maybe, $20K each. The missiles that the Apache fired cost upwards of $100K each. Who won the engagement? It really depends on what was in the trucks, but it's most probable that the result was that the US losses were more expensive, in spite of the fact that they destroyed the the enemy and returned home with no casualties.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Attitudes have changed over the years by fantomas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I grew up in the UK. In the 70s and 80s there were bombs going off regularly in the UK because of the situation in Northern Ireland but the response seemed to be less significant than the response to the present 'terror'. People seemed to get on with life more back then and seemed to be more pragmatic in their responses.

    Anybody know why it seems like we've responded with a much greater response this time round? Because these guys are suicide bombers? People worry more? Or did we respond at about the same level last time round?

    I was in London when the truck bomb blew up large parts of Canary Wharf, the people I knew who worked in the area seemed to be more concerned about checking if they should go to work the next day, if the office was still there, more than anything else.

    1. Re:Attitudes have changed over the years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think it has to do with the fact that many fewer people in Western countries have closely experienced really terrible times like war, famine, plagues and the like. In the 60's and 70's many people had still directly experienced WWII and if not were surrounded by others that had. I think some of that perspective has been lost.

  8. Re:It cost them $4200 plus many killed or captured by nabsltd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An attack that is attempted but fails costs more than money.

    Please note that there have been no failed terrorist attacks in the past 10 years.

    Every attack achieved at least one of the objectives. Agreed, most have only achieved one of the objectives, but all have achieved the objective of having various nations make life worse for their own citizens.

  9. Re:Goals by zmollusc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taking guns away is totally worth it. We aren't allowed guns here in the UK and as a result we are completely safe. Apart from the occasional terror attack. And the couple of shootings a week. And the criminals with guns. And not being able to defend yourself or your family.

    --
    They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
  10. Re:Wrong end of the Cold War by pjtp · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...a brief engagement from the last Golf War...

    ahhh... I remember when it use to be a peaceful sport.