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Voyager 1 Beyond Solar Wind

healeyb noted that Voyager 1 has now reached a distance from the sun where it is no longer able to detect solar wind. Launched in 1977 to get up close and personal with our solar system's gas giants, scientists estimate that in another 4 years it will cross the heliosphere.

46 of 245 comments (clear)

  1. Sentience by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Funny

    At what point does it become sentient, call itself V-ger, and return to destroy earth?

    1. Re:Sentience by oldspewey · · Score: 2

      Shortly after William Shatner returns to "A list" celebrity status.

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    2. Re:Sentience by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe this is the timeline where Cochrane decides it's easier to make money with a Ponzi scheme than a warp engine.

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    3. Re:Sentience by circletimessquare · · Score: 2

      that was voyager 6, not voyager 1

      you have failed to show adequate mastery of geek trivia, major subsection: star trek arcana

      bow your head in shame and leave the website

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    4. Re:Sentience by gorzek · · Score: 2

      We narrowly missed the Eugenics Wars and got George W. Bush instead of Khan Noonien Singh. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether we're the lucky ones.

    5. Re:Sentience by Canazza · · Score: 3, Funny

      well, it looks like we're heading for a moneyless society quicker than trek did

      --
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    6. Re:Sentience by prefec2 · · Score: 2

      It is the time line where we didn't blow us up. So Cochrane does not develop the warp drive and we all die out because we use an un-desinfected phone. Oh wait ... wrong book. Anyway this reality is the one which hasn't been produced so far. It will be named:

      Star Trek @home

      and the story is, that the crew stays in San Fransisco in a bar going nowhere. And in the end the leave the convention and go home in a rusty taxi and are hit by a meteor containing Braxton or Dr. Who (but I am not totally sure).

    7. Re:Sentience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Humans are genetically programmed to be selfish - capitalism is the system most closely aligned with human nature

      No, capitalism is the system most closely aligned with maximizing selfish values given the premise of scarce resources. If you violate that premise as Star Trek technology does, with its limitless fusion and anti-matter power, transporters, matter replicators, faster-than-light travel, etc then participating in capitalism may no longer be the solution that best maximizes selfish gain.

      Case in point, look at the communist systems of USSR and China

      Pre-22nd century societies aren't a case in point for anything in a fictional 22nd century society.

      If you can sit on your ass, not make the slightest effort, and still end up choking to death on your own wealth unless you exercise some self restraint, as a character on Star Trek would, then you need not do anything, in order to make sure you're taken care of and have whatever you want.

      This is the promise (almost certainly never to be fulfilled, but nevertheless a promise) of technology.

    8. Re:Sentience by BergZ · · Score: 2

      Humans are genetically programmed to be selfish - capitalism is the system most closely aligned with human nature.

      Unfortunately it isn't so simple. People are genetically/behaviorally "programmed" to be selfish in some ways and altruistic in others (through notably unselfish acts of charity). We're a mixed bag.
      As a result of our mixed nature, neither pure free-market capitalism nor communism match the complex needs of the human psyche. I suppose it's why mixed (market+social) economies are so prevalent around the world.

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    9. Re:Sentience by Peristaltic · · Score: 2

      That's the problem when making jokes in a forum full of analyticals.

  2. Edge by Metabolife · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's going to fall off the edge of the universe. I just know it.

    1. Re:Edge by ATestR · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nonsense. Any day it will splat against the solid glass wall on which all the stars are painted in florescent paint.

      --
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  3. 17.5 billion kilometers by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    17.5 billion kilometres and counting, over 3 decades spent hurtling away from from the sun, and still less than 0.05% of the way to the nearest star

    We humans are really really really small.

    --
    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    1. Re:17.5 billion kilometers by oldspewey · · Score: 2

      Well at this rate, it would take around half a billion years to colonize the entire galaxy, which over cosmic timescales isn't too bad I suppose. As for visiting other galaxies, I'd be inclined to say it could never happen, but then it seems that our nearby galaxies are going to visit us so that saves us the trouble.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    2. Re:17.5 billion kilometers by crunchygranola · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True, Voyager 1 has only travelled a short way between stars within our galaxy -- but here is a cool fact (I think).The Milky Way Galaxy is moving relative to the rest of the Universe (as defined by the Cosmic Microwave Background frame of reference) at 279 ± 68 km/sec, just under 0.1% the speed of light. This is the speed with which we are moving through the Universe. Thus if you live to be 80 years old (a typical lifespan today) you will die in a region of the Universe 0.074 light years from where you were born, and the first pyramids were built in Egypt in a region of the Universe more distant than Alpha Centauri.

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    3. Re:17.5 billion kilometers by zonex · · Score: 2

      For some perspective -- the Voyager is just 16.1 light hours away... the nearest star is 4.2 light years away. Happy tracks, little fella...

    4. Re:17.5 billion kilometers by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Half a billion years is a fairly short time in galactic timescales. It took approximately one billion years after the Earth formed for life to appear, and then 3.5 billion years to get to us. You'd only need to evolve slightly faster than us (or slower, but around a first-generation star) to have been spacefaring for over half a billion years, which makes you wonder slightly why no one has colonised our star already.

      It's worth remembering that we've only been chucking things into space for about half a century. With our current science, it's largely an engineering problem (i.e. hard, but possible with a bit of investment) to get an extra order of magnitude or two on top of Voyager's speed, which would cut down the time considerably. Give us a couple of hundred years more technological development, and we could easily produce Von Neumann probes that would explore every star in the galaxy in a few million years. If someone else did this already, they hid their probes pretty well...

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    5. Re:17.5 billion kilometers by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      If someone else did this already, they hid their probes pretty well...

      Um... What makes you say that?

      It doesn't seem like they would have to be hiding much, or at all for that matter, for us to miss them.

      Look at a recent development at the limits of human observational ability: We just discovered that Eris is, despite its greater mass, may not actually be larger in diameter than Pluto. We did not do this by actually resolving the disk with sufficient resolution to answer the question, but by timing how long it occluded a background star. While certainly an awesome and impressive feat, it raises a very pertinent question:

      Just how big/close would an alien probe need to be for it to be hard to miss?

      Imagine a probe, many times larger than any telescope we have even on the ground, observing from the outer solar system. This probe could be orbiting Eris right now, while it's duplicator-unit scurries around the surface of the body making the next generation of probes to send to our stellar neighbors, and we'd have virtually no way of knowing.

      I have other issues with this an other versions of the Fermi Paradox, but the crux is the part where one asks "then why haven't we seen them already?" as if this is in any way a paradox, or even a puzzling mystery.

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    6. Re:17.5 billion kilometers by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      No, particle/theoritical physicists will discover two more fundamental forces.

      I was hinting that First* Contact will happen by ~ 2032 (give or take a few years.) Frankly, I just want this be over with so we can move onto bigger questions -- What is your preception of Mathematics? Physics? Biology? Theology? If FTL isn't going to give the physicists head-aches for years, then when they understand the "edge" of the Universe, that will. ;-)

      Save this post so we can come back to it and laugh over how it absolutely ridiciously insane and silly it must seem now, but won't then, and we can talk "How the Hell did you know this back then...?" :-)

      Anyways, its going to get real interesting "soonish", and we can stop this nonsense of trying to guess the answer to the one of the biggest questions of all time "Are we alone?" because it will be a fact.

      "May you live in interesting times!" Indeed.

      * Technically, it's not "First", but whether it is 1st, 1,000 or 1,000,000 doesn't really matter. IMHO, the BIGGER questions is "WTF do they look like us?"

      --
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  4. An amazing achievement by Colourspace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fact we are still able to communicate with a piece of 33 year old technology (I'm only a few years older myself, and possibly not in as good a shape either) further away than any man made object ever launched, and are still getting useful science from it is nothing short of remarkable - matched only Spirits extended mission time so far, IMHO. And then, sometimes we can't even launch a satellite or two properly..

    1. Re:An amazing achievement by troon · · Score: 4, Informative

      ITYM "Opportunity". Spirit's been silent, and I'm guessing dead, since March.

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    2. Re:An amazing achievement by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If we had the collective courage [read - no enviro-wackos] to use RTGs [wikipedia.org] on our Mars probes, we wouldn't have lost Spirit to freezing temperatures brought on by low power from the solar cells.

      LOL, that's why you think Spirit and Opportunity didn't use them? Enviro-wackos?

      The real reason is simply optimizing for the mission profile. The MERs were relatively small devices with very tight mass budgets, and an RTG of sufficient power would have been too heavy compared to the solar panel/battery combo they went with instead. It was an engineering trade-off. They did, by the way, use RHUs to heat components but this was not sufficient to stave off freezing by itself.

      The Mars Science Laboratory is going to use an RTG. It is a much larger rover, with power demands beyond what solar panels could provide, and with a more generous amount of mass to dedicate to the power system.

      We used 'em on quite a few spacecraft [wikipedia.org] - why they aren't used more often for solar power-limited missions escapes me.

      Yeah, which I would think would have suggested that maybe enviro-wacko objection to the concept of RTGs had nothing to do with it. This is a lobby with surprisingly less power than you might think. :)

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      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:An amazing achievement by Zaiff+Urgulbunger · · Score: 2

      Yeah - it's a real shame that it got that far and *then* the solar wind detector broke. ;)

  5. Data transfers by Picardo85 · · Score: 5, Funny

    are still probably cheaper per kB than sending an SMS ...

    1. Re:Data transfers by john83 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      From here,

      The total cost of the Voyager mission from May 1972 through the Neptune encounter (including launch vehicles, radioactive power source (RTGs), and DSN tracking support) is 865 million dollars.

      and

      A total of five trillion bits of scientific data had been returned to Earth by both Voyager spacecraft at the completion of the Neptune encounter.

      That's $0.001384 per bit. There are 1120 bits in an SMS message. That's about $1.55 per SMS. Not exactly cheap, but then Vodafone don't have coverage beyond Pluto.

      --
      Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    2. Re:Data transfers by cycleflight · · Score: 2
      We've left all but the most broad definitions of the solar system behind on $865 million, and yet we spend nearly that amount per unit to enable the annihilation of millions of our fellow beings without them ever knowing.

      What a world.

      --
      "...And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" ~Bob Moawad
    3. Re:Data transfers by tgd · · Score: 2

      Not to dismiss, but keep in mind that is the total dollars spent, in which the vast majority was in 1970's dollars.

      Assuming that was mostly spent in, say, 1975 (figuring 700m of it), that would be almost $3b in "official" 2009 dollars, although arguably the government has been playing games with the inflation figures for most of the 2000s, so its likely actually more.

      And, you're off by three orders of magnitude.

    4. Re:Data transfers by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Kind of interesting to think, get ~500,000 people to shell out $1.55. Micro donations could fund the future of science.

      Already being done. It's called taxes.

      --
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  6. Re:First by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

    I would say that the ping time is probably at par with the ping time of the protocol described in RFC 1149, a.k.a. IPoAC.

    --
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  7. I feel a kinship with voyager by arcite · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since it is almost the same age as me, I feel a kinship with the little guy. It's amazing that it's still sending back readings after all theses years and millions of miles travelled in the deep dark infinite space. Onward to interstellar space! Godspeed!

  8. NASA Craftsmanship by Goboxer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With how well NASA's gear works long after their mission is complete perhaps they should start selling toys and cars to fill in all those budget holes that they have.

    1. Re:NASA Craftsmanship by Kamokazi · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's a great idea. Going by typical NASA costs for things, the toys would only run 10-50k, and you could get yourself into a nice efficient compact for a cool $15M

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    2. Re:NASA Craftsmanship by Xyrus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Has it ever occurred to you that one of the reasons why NASA missions are so expensive is because you can't just yank shit of a shelf, stuff it in a box, and hope that it works in space? Did it cross your mind that the people with the know how to correctly engineer something that can last in space for extended periods of time aren't exactly cheap?

      There are no economies of scale here. Highly specialized = expensive. Highly specialized + rugged = very expensive.

      --
      ~X~
  9. We humans may be small by arcite · · Score: 5, Insightful

    but we think big.

    1. Re:We humans may be small by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      No we don't. We only think we do.

  10. Re:Go Voyager 1! by dogsbreath · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's fascinating to think that in just about four years the first man-made object will leave our solar system. And to think that only a little over 100 years ago we were still trying to get ourselves airborne. We've come a long way. I wish I knew what we'd be doing 100 years from today.

    er... picking through radioctive rubble and looking for a scrap to eat? ... avoiding Triffids?

  11. Why cant we have more science like this? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Voyager probes are frigging HUGE. why cant we launch the same thing twice, but have them assemble in orbit and give it a chemical kick in the ass to get the slingshotting down and then when it get's it's last slingshot around juipeter kick in the Ion engines to do a long hard burn for a few years to get the thing really hauling ass.

    I'll bet with current tech we can get past Voyager 1 within 10 years AND have better instruments, a stronger transmitter, far more sensitive receiver, etc.... Seriously. NASA could do this right now and we might see a flyby of another star within a 200 year window.

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    1. Re:Why cant we have more science like this? by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Voyager probes are frigging HUGE. why cant we launch the same thing twice, but have them assemble in orbit and give it a chemical kick in the ass to get the slingshotting down and then when it get's it's last slingshot around juipeter kick in the Ion engines to do a long hard burn for a few years to get the thing really hauling ass.

      Because it's really, really, REALLY, REALLY freaking expensive. You're talking a big task considering the need to develop the technology both for the probe and for on-orbit assembly (and no, the ISS is not suitable, among other problems it's in the wrong orbit). Then you're talking multiple launches, which increases the programmatic risk because each launch is a chance to lose a component. Then you have the problem of keeping the components 'alive' during the assembly period (I.E. powered up and with environmental controls active) and of actually assembling the probe. (I.E. more risk, more chances to screw things up.)
       
      To put it in terms of Slashdot's favorite form of analogy: It's like designing and building a car from scratch in Chicago, then shipping the components to Los Angeles for assembly by remote control with robots also developed from scratch in Chicago and shipped to Los Angeles. Then you drive it from Los Angeles to Miami Beach by remote control - just so you can measure the wind speed and air temperature on the South Beach.
       
      It's not that we can't do it... It's that the expense (several billion dollars at least) and the chances of success (iffy at best given the number of risky steps and cutting edge technologies), aren't justified by the rather modest science goals.

    2. Re:Why cant we have more science like this? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      " Voyager has taken since 1977 to get where it is and is currently hitting 14km/s. At those speeds, dusts rips you apart let alone anything else (it's 50400 km/h or 31317 mph). It takes YEARS to accelerate to that speed even with a constant acceleration from a nuclear powered engine that has had to work, unattended, since before I was born."

      Voyager has NO Thrust engines only attitude control. It's last acceleration was during a slingshot past the gas giants. It has had ZERO acceleration since 1979.

      Also Voyager 1 and 2 have no problem with this rip me apart dust you seem to think is all over the place out there.

      as for your claims of impossibility... So then Voyager 1,2, Viking, the Moon landings all were faked then? Because I'm asking for no more than doing what we did in the 70's but with current technology. It is very possible.

      Proxima Centauri is 4.2 light years out. an ion engine being able to thrust for 20 years with a set of Gridded Electrostatic ion thrusters achieve 100 kNs/k and some have had 210 kNs/k but not tested in continuous operation for 3 years like the older ones. Designing a craft to have 20 years worth of fuel and Nuclear power is not hard at all we did it in the 70's. and that kind of acceleration would get the craft to a fraction of light speed. Even a 1KW transmitter can send back telemetry to earth at a 1 light year distance if you reduce the data rate and still have fuel to keep the antenna pointed home.

      Granted giving it commands will be difficult, but we can make it smart so it can operate on it's own or with limited command needs.

      All of it is doable because we already did the hard parts of it several times already.

      --
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  12. Solar wind decline, not beyond solar wind by chebucto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am not an astrophysicist, so I don't understand the subtelties of this, but it should be noted that NASA press release says the probe has measured a solar wind decline, not that the probe is beyond the solar wind. Specifically, it says the solar wind has 'no outward motion'. The probe's environment is still dominated by the solar wind because it is still in the heliosphere, or, as NASA says, 'Crossing into interstellar space would mean a sudden drop in the density of hot particles and an increase in the density of cold particles.'

    http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/voyager/voyager20101213.html

    Now hurtling toward interstellar space some 17.4 billion kilometers (10.8 billion miles) from the sun, Voyager 1 has crossed into an area where the velocity of the hot ionized gas, or plasma, emanating directly outward from the sun has slowed to zero. Scientists suspect the solar wind has been turned sideways by the pressure from the interstellar wind in the region between stars.

    ...

    Scientists believe Voyager 1 has not crossed the heliosheath into interstellar space. Crossing into interstellar space would mean a sudden drop in the density of hot particles and an increase in the density of cold particles. Scientists are putting the data into their models of the heliosphere's structure and should be able to better estimate when Voyager 1 will reach interstellar space. Researchers currently estimate Voyager 1 will cross that frontier in about four years.

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  13. Obligatory by sconeu · · Score: 2

    http://xkcd.com/695/

    Warning: may make some readers cry.

    --
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  14. Re:8 bits to the byte silly by john83 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, there are, but SMS uses a reduced character set and so seven bits per character. It's 140 bytes to represent 160 characters. That's my understanding at least, backed up by a cursory google. I could of course be wrong.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
  15. The Solar Wind is not Zero mph by hAckz0r · · Score: 2

    Voyager is travelling 38,000 mph, directly away from the Sun. If its sensors no longer feel the push of the Solar Wind its because the wind is now going slower, say 37,999 mph, but not yet zero mph as the article title might imply. The wind is most likely still there, we just can not sense it anymore with the technology aboard the spacecraft.

  16. CPU - lowly RCA 1802 by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wow, just wow! Not even a 6502. The Voyagers used a trio of 1802s clocked at 6.4MHz. Just goes to show what you can do with a specific bit of hardware and tight code.

    --
    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
  17. Onward Voyager! by k6mfw · · Score: 2
    This is so cool of one of four spacecraft to leave our solar system, all made back in the days when the Russians were are enemies and the Iranians were our friends.

    I remember seeing photos of Jupiter in Aviation Week magazine at a library (hey kids, this was the first time people saw such details of Jupiter's clouds, Red Spot, etc. so it was really impressive). I was seriously thinking of stealing those pages, but backed off. I later got nice prints from NASA (which they gave away back in the 20th century). It was so cool to see such detail when best we had were images from ground based telescopes, or nice paintings from artists.

    When Pioneer 11 past Saturn, they discussed the E ring, F ring, G ring, then debating designations of other rings. Then Voyager passed by and they just gave up naming all the rings (maybe they did, but Voyager images showed "thousands" of rings).

    Also back then NASA still had the best "special effects."

    --
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  18. Re:Article Text by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ,/U\j
    (_o_)

    You're all clear, kid, now let's *blow* this thing and go home!