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Ford To Offer Fuel-Saving 'Start-Stop' System

Posted by Soulskill on from the eventual-acceleration dept.

Ponca City writes "The Detroit Free Press reports that Ford plans to offer start-stop systems on many cars in 2012 that save fuel by turning an engine off when the vehicle is idling and quickly restart it when the driver releases the brake or steps on the gas pedal, improving fuel economy by 4% to 10%, depending on driving conditions. The system, common in Europe on cars with manual transmissions, is already in use in the US on gasoline-electric hybrids, including the Ford Fusion Hybrid. Automakers have been reluctant to add the feature to cars in the US because the testing method that the Environmental Protection Agency uses to determine fuel efficiency ratings doesn't include many stops and thus doesn't recognize the technology's effectiveness."

15 of 572 comments (clear)

  1. Buy a Ford! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Buy a Ford!

    1. Re:Buy a Ford! by sycodon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      FORD: Bringing Golf Cart technology to the Masses.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Buy a Ford! by afidel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Guess you missed the 365HP/350lb ft, 25MPG Taurus SHO with the 3.5 V6 then, eh? Adding this would just improve that fuel economy while costing nothing in performance. Compare it to the 3.7L 305HP/275lb ft Acura TL with the same fuel consumption in a 400lb lighter car. Ford became pretty serious about US fuel economy a couple years ago and they mortgaged the company a couple years ago to achieve it and it's rightfully paying off for them.

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      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Buy a Ford! by GooberToo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      _WRONG_. It costs in performance.

      Not true.

      Start/Stop causes extra wear and tear on the engine block.

      The majority of all engine wear comes during start/warming of an engine, but only because its when oil pressure doesn't exist and lubrication has gone elsewhere.

      In this situation, it doesn't apply because the engine has been freshly lubricated and oil lines are likely still highly pressurized. So unless you have extensive and conclusive studies, your comment completely flies in the face of all established ICE doctrine.

      Additionally, you need to ensure that the engine block retains heat longer which in most cases means bigger and heavier engine block

      No you don't. That's only true for diesel engines which require a thermal element to start. I looks like we're talking about gasoline engines. So your comment seemingly has absolutely no merit.

      Similarly, you may need some extra work on the cat and emission control to keep the entire system warm and ensure you stay within pollution limits.

      The catalytic converter does need to maintain a specific temperature range to properly function. This, however, can be addressed by the use of a heating elements (to maintain a temp - even perhaps outside of limits) and/or periodic engine starts (to maintain limits).

      On top of that you need a beefier starter motor and a beefier battery

      Thus far, this appears to be your first legitimate complaint. Having said that, starter technology has progressed significantly over the last two decades. Starters can now be roughly a quarter the size they were only two or three decades ago and with much higher reliability. So lets say they add an extra ten pounds of weight in starter/battery. That's comparable to roughly 1.2 gallons of automotive fuel. If the technology can save 10%, for most vehicles, that alone more than offsets the weight penalty associated with the added technology.

      to ensure you get the cranking current for it so that the engine starts up straight away.

      Wrong. This is seemingly like a pattern here.

      They specifically stop the engine at a specific position so that it need only spark to initiate combustion, rotation, starting, and charging of the battery. So basically, nothing really new needs to take place. The only caveat is one needs to properly monitor the battery's health to ensure the engine starts, to recharge the battery and/or maintain catalytic converter efficiency.

      A good engine especially diesel eats nearly nothing in idle

      I no longer remember the exact number, but idle consumption in the US alone is a considerable amount of fuel. So reduction of this consumption is a worthy goal and should not be hand waved and ignored.

      All in all you get worse pollution (and nastier - particles and unburned/partially burned hydrocarbons),

      Completely baseless statement and likely extremely wrong. In fact, its extremely likely to dramatically reduce pollution as idle is typically the lowest point of efficiency for ICE and catalytic converters. By almost entirely doing away with the phase which creates a disproportionate amount of pollution, the increase in air quality is likely to be disproportionately profound.

      worse economy and worse performance than an smaller and "weaker" normal engine with an electric boost similar to the one on the Honda, Mercedes and a few others.

      Completely baseless statement and likely extremely wrong.

      Frankly, I'm not sure anything you said is even remotely grounded in fact.

  2. Cold weather by E-Sabbath · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How does this system behave in cold weather? Sometimes, I want the car running for a while, either to power the heater or to just warm up the engine before I take it on the road?

    1. Re:Cold weather by lyml · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well we've been using it for a while in Sweden and it's pretty cold up here. No problems so far.

    2. Re:Cold weather by Shuntros · · Score: 5, Informative

      It behaves perfectly well in cold weather. I have a 2.0L/200bhp diesel BMW in the UK where it's been sub-zero (that's on the rest-of-the-world temperature scale) for the last month. A number of pre-requisites have to be met for the car to commence the start-stop behaviour, such as the engine having warmed up sufficiently, battery charged etc.. There's also a button on the dash to disable it as it can get a little annoying during rush hour due to frequent stopping in heavy traffic. It took a couple of weeks to get used to, but it now feels strange to sit at the lights with the engine running. It's very fast aswell; kills the engine below 5mph when the car is in neutral and clutch is out, then the moment you hit the clutch to pop her back in gear she fires up again, so quickly that it's almost impossible to get your foot on the gas before she's running.

      Not sure how they plan to implement it for cars which run in "stupid mode" (automatic transmission); presume it'll crank it when you take your foot off the brake to drive off.

      BMW specifically recommend NOT warming the car up for long periods before driving off; it's no longer necessary due to today's technology, nicosil-plated cylinders etc...

    3. Re:Cold weather by GWBasic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My 2003 Civic Hybrid has this feature. The engine doesn't stop in cold weather.

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      No, I will not work for your startup
    4. Re:Cold weather by Shikaku · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sometimes radical feminism has great benefits.

      See: dominatrices.

    5. Re:Cold weather by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, because -40F and -40C are so different.....

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      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  3. Re:Fuel-Saving? by lyml · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since it's already been deployed in Europe with great success (although the silence when you stand still at a red light is ominous) Mythbusters seems redundant.

  4. Re:Fuel-Saving? by bobdotorg · · Score: 4, Informative

    On fuel injected cars you pay the penalty on a cold start - until the engine and exhaust / emissions systems are warmed up, the car runs rich (open loop).

    Once the car is warmed up, the ECU (engine control unit) will go into a more efficient closed loop operation, using O2 sensor output to set more efficient fuel levels. Shutting off the engine for a moment will not send the system back to the less efficient open loop.

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  5. Re:Why hasn't it been done before? by Ebbesen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, Volkswagen made the Lupo back in the 90s. It was able to achieve 78 miles to the US gallon with a 1.2L diesel engine.

    So, I guess he's full of it, if the battery pack on the big American cars are unable to store enough energy.

  6. Re:I love the American way... by mindstormpt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That was not what he meant. The technology is tried and testes. Maybe half of the cars around me use it. It works, it's reliable, and it undeniably saves gas/emissions. The problem here is that it doesn't save so much gas on the EPA test track. As such, it's not worth it - no matter the environmental benefits in the real world.

  7. Re:This would only increase engine wear. by mangu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The conspiracy theorist in me says that this is just a way for manufacturers to increase their revenues for ongoing maintenance (as these engines WILL need far more regular maintenance cycles)

    When was the last time you sold a car because the engine had worn out? As opposed to selling it because the body rattles, the upholstery is worn, the doors leak water when it rains, the paint is scratched, the windshield is cracked, plastic parts are broken, the dashboard is crumbling?