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NASA To Continue Funding Canceled Ares Project Until March
wooferhound passes along this quote from the Orlando Sentinel:
"Thanks to congressional inaction, NASA must continue to fund its defunct Ares I rocket program until March — a requirement that will cost the agency nearly $500 million at a time when NASA is struggling with the expensive task of replacing the space shuttle. About one-third of that money — $165 million — will go to Alliant Techsystems, or ATK, which has a $2 billion contract to build the solid-rocket first stage for the Ares I, the rocket that was supposed to fill the shuttle's role of transporting astronauts to the International Space Station. ... The odd scenario, in which NASA is throwing money at a canceled rocket program but can't fund a modernization program, is because of several twists in the legislative process that started a year ago and came to a head this month. At the root of the problem is a 70-word sentence inserted into the 2010 budget — by lawmakers seeking to protect Ares I jobs in their home states — that bars NASA from shutting down the program until Congress passed a new budget a year later. That should have happened before the Oct. 1 start of the federal fiscal year. But Congress never passed a 2011 budget and instead voted this month to extend the 2010 budget until March — so NASA still must abide by the 2010 language."
Seems odd that the US space agency needs a "modernization program". Obviously, it should be called something else since NASA still plans on using Russia's own antiquated hardware to keep the ISS going.
Anyhow, I don't understand why we should be so happy that NASA is funding a program that it's not planning on using---regardless of where the funding is coming from.
Well, it's only money. After all, it's not like they are taking your money, out of your wallet.
if I recall correctly, mostly republicans, but they were covering their backs by funding this somehow
Dunno, but I'm sure those redundant, pointless jobs will be added under someone's "and he created X jobs in 2011..." political campaign slogans. After all jobs with no purpose outside the job itself is the whole point of government, unlike economic efficiency where the jobs actually have to contribute something society deems as worthwhile.
Now to find jobs that completely undo what little these new jobs do, hmmm maybe on the environmental side of things...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Yup, it would waste less money to just send every worker a year's salary beyond their regular severance and send them home. At least then we don't have to pay to keep the lights on and churn through materials to build things we intend to throw away.
The magnitude of government waste amazes me sometimes...
Strange, if I was the head of NASA I would jump to this and use that $500 million to do something productive. There is just no way that that could come back to bite me. Not when there are so many senators and other obvious targets for the news agencies to make fun of.
Really, I'm just waiting for the reporter with the balls to make a story about the $500 million that goes to some senators brother or something. Why else would they conveniently not make a budget this one year?
Well, at least it's not my tax money.
How bad would the penalties be?
>>>mostly republicans
Citation please. That would be a remarkable feat, considering the republicans were a super-minority completely and totally dominated by the Democrats (controlled ~60% of the Congress). Speaking as someone outside the power base (i.e. unelected libertarian), I consider myself an impartial observer of the Rep-Dem Duopoly. And I don't comprehend how the republicans can be blamed when it was the Democrats that held the power of Congress for four years. And another ~40 years from 1956 to 1994.
This last century was the century of the Democrat-run Congresses.
So how again is it that we blame the Reps? Makes as little sense as blaming the minority libertarians.
i.e. Citation please.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
You know, it's odd for a country with so many vocal opponents of socialism endorsing this bizarre situation of private defense/aerospace companies being funded by the taxpayer with very little in the way of end results.
The language that keeps Constellation going was inserted into the 2010 budget last year by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican who sought to protect the program and Ares jobs at Marshall Space Flight Center in his home state.
I would also like to posit that if you are of the opinion that the Republicans have had little or no effect on the legislative process for the past two years, then you have not been paying attention.
It's not like Congress hasn't been busy recently, and presumably NASA and its subcontractors aren't just taking the money and throwing it in a shredder. It takes time and money to properly mothball a project of that size, and in the meanwhile maybe they can make a little progress toward their goals.
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
Super minority?
They certainly had enough power to filibuster everything that was looked at. That doesn't make a super minority. The last century was a Democrat run congress?
Please leave the rock youve been hiding under.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Dunno, but I'm sure those redundant, pointless jobs will be added under someone's "and he created X jobs in 2011..." political campaign slogans. After all jobs with no purpose outside the job itself is the whole point of government, unlike economic efficiency where the jobs actually have to contribute something society deems as worthwhile.
Now to find jobs that completely undo what little these new jobs do, hmmm maybe on the environmental side of things...
Umm let's go easy on the private-sector-is-nirvana please. Companies produce profit, yes. That requires being "efficient", at least with time and money, yes. Contributions to society? Not helpful to profitability. To public-relations, perhaps, so companies run ads saying "we are totally eco-everything!", true or not, and they're done with social-contribution-PR. Profitability, more often than not, leads to intense studies of how to sell the least expensive things, for the most money, as an illusion of a most amazing thing. So in food, for example, that results in lots products based on low cost ingredients - water, sugar, fat, salt, wheat, corn, soybean, and various chemicals. Because they are low cost, don't spoil, give huge taste rewards to anything they are mixed with. Fresh fruits and vegetables are not as profitable, there's just no way to do it, so they are not promoted, marketed, researched, etc. Therefore, junk food national diet, international now, heavily promoted. It's a profitable, possible sector. So, private sector has efficiency - for profit, not health.
Whose "profit interests" would be served by good health, that could counter all this? Perhaps the insurance companies. Or temp-labor. But still they do almost nothing to promote health. Why? Well, good salesmen, complex contracts and good lawyers results in much better profits than healthy insurance buyers.
And yes, I have a company, started several over the years - was last an employee in '97 - and it is very hard, almost impossible, to create a company producing "social contributions", plus income to pay for costs plus profit, plus manage all operations, all at the same time. That's why almost nobody does it, it's not so much because company owners are cruel and greedy. Companies with more greed produce more profit and grow faster, they are financially, socially rewarded, that's what happens. What's profitable? Not good social-services. That's a myth. Selling drugs, alcohol, prostitution, power, weapons, false dreams, and useless junk, now that's efficient, that's good profit.
Government is not nirvana, neither was socialism, and capitalism isn't much more than self-promotion and marketing either. So start looking for something new, because we need it badly.
Myself, I'm rooting that someday we reach humanism. No, it's not simple and easy, nothing is, and not a product for sale. And I could give a damn if capitalism just finished and became obsolete, humanity can do better than this.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
I'll bet the Chinese are now laughing so hard it hurts.
America is finished with nonsense like this.
Not really, the Chinese are not laughing, no. They are too busy copying everything America does to become exactly like it. Especially the waste. For example, getting rid of all their bicycles, and putting everyone to produce, buy and sell cars for themselves and everyone. Producing many more accidents. But they have no hospitals, and nobody cares. Too busy making money with cars. Sounds familiar, doesn't it.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Here, you fucking retard. Yes, that is TFA.
The Democrats had a filibuster proof Senate until Senator Kennedy died. As Obama wisely observed at the start of his presidency, "The Republicans will take a backseat and remain quiet." The Democrats held an unstoppable majority.
Malcolm X once observed in the late sixties, "The Democrats are so powerful, the republicans might well pack their bags and go home." In the previous century, the Democrats controlled the Congress for almost 80 years out of 100. THAT is why I call it the century of the Democrat Congresses.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
You have no idea how government works. Funding is handled by bipartisan committees. The minority party has a lot of sway on funding, especially the GOP because the Dems have so many consrevative members that they often need to reach across the aisle to get anything done.
The problem is that your corporatist press isn't mentioning names and uses the term "lawmakers" to cover the overly business friendly GOP. Funny how that works. I had to do a lot of digging to get this:
http://www.truthistreason.net/thanks-to-congress-inaction-500-million-goes-to-defunct-rocket-program-lockheed-martin
It was Republican Richard Shelby bringing the pork back home. You know a member of the party of *snicker* fiscal responsbility:
The language that keeps Constellation going was inserted into the 2010 budget last year by [corrupt] U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican who sought to protect the program and Ares jobs at Marshall Space Flight Center in his home state.
His office confirmed that the language was still in effect but did not respond to e-mails seeking details.
http://www.truthistreason.net/thanks-to-congress-inaction-500-million-goes-to-defunct-rocket-program-lockheed-martin
This is good money thrown into the trashbin! Or better yet, simply shredded! There will be no finished product, no technical or scientific achievement as a result of this money. And while I might show my ignorance about the details of the Ares program, why the heck are they even developing solid fuel rockets? This is supposedly a manned program, no?
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
NASA should have planed the Shutle replacement program as soon as the first Shuttle took off. I truely believe the space program has been so left behind since the Apollo missions that the U.S. should have been to Mars already.
The space race was to beat the Russians by landing on the moon? How about the exploration of space is mankinds future.
I guess NASA doesn't do a good job at promoting themselves otherwise they would have tons of money.
Gee that is (almost) enough money to fund a Mars sample return mission; something with actual scientific value. But that will never happen as long as NASA is run by flyboys with delusions of Star Wars....
sadly Regan was in power long enough to irreversibly damage the fabric of your society.
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
red. You know, the people that want to 'cut taxes' and 'have a smaller government'.
This is what happens when the voters go for lines like 'cut taxes'. It's a stupid misdirection that leads t nowhere good. You can't generically cut taxes and reduce pork. You must go after specific pork.
But hey, everyones' for cutting pork until it's their job.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"is struggling with the expensive task of replacing the space shuttle". Is the author talking about SpaceX or some other mythical shuttle replacement? Last I knew, outside of SpaceX, NASA did not have a pot to piss in with regards to future manned launch vehicles. Please enlighten me.
Conservative, mod down for violating
Just when you thought Congress had run out of ways to waste money
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
giving food to the poor falls under the first definition you list.
Collective - the church (or any organization)
Giving out food - distribution of goods,
And for icing, the government funds it in the way of tax deductions and exemptions.
Anyone who claims to hate socialism, but doesn't act to remove tax exemptions from donation is a hypocrite.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You are not unbiased observer. IN fact, you state leaning means your bias is most likely 'everyone who makes a viewpoint is wrong' you are mostly likely a HORRIBLE observer.
Now, you seem to suffer from the delusion that a super minority has no power. 60 percent is not totally dominated. If you would have bothered tom pay attention over the last few years, you would see where the republicans filibusters almost everything, refused to vote on well over 100 of standard nominations. They have clearly done everything that can to stall the government. This includes not voting for bills they wanted because democrats agreed with them.
The government is complex and changing environments. Hell both parties have change a lot in the last 60 years.
You have certainly confirmed my bias the libertarians are simple minded people that can not grasp political complexities. Or anything that doesn't impact them immediately, really,.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
the grande olde race to the bottom with your favorite bureaucratic players serving their duly appointed decades of service in office to the allmighty dollar and its greased corporate hand.
The soviets managed the first satellite, the manned lunar orbit, and the first robotic probe on the moon as well as plasma engine technology, and this was all done about 30 years ago. here in the states we still shoot people into space with the firm conviction that at any moment the event can fail catastrophically for any reason, or no reason at all...and thats okay.
Good people go to bed earlier.
And the lucky lottery winner for 2011 is... ATK
OK, I know it's not a lottery -- it's on purpose (I'm sure someone intended this to happen). AND perhaps I shouldn't be picking on ATK since there's a lot of good people who work there -- I mean them no personal insult.
It looks like the bulk of the rest of the money goes to Lockheed for work on the Orion. That won't go to waste as it's likely Orion, or parts of it, will get used in some future system. It even appears Lockheed might try to put it to use on a commercial launcher:
Lockheed reserved Delta for 2013 test flight Lockheed Martin wants to Launch Orion on Delta IV Heavy
What choice is it when we only get to pick one loser or another, chosen by one of the two heads of the same monster? That's not a representative government anymore, not even close.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
Contributions to society? Not helpful to profitability.
I'm not an economist and all I know is what I learned in the standard macro/microeconomics college level courses, so it's not really my place to answer this.
But I believe the whole idea is that 1) new ideas are "worth more" to people than the re-invention of the wheel and 2) people who individually manage their scarce resources will only spend money on things that they perceive have value. As an aggregate, this tends to favor selection (and thus ease of profitability) for items that people actually want (which I call beneficial to society), versus things that people don't want (which I call not beneficial to society). Of course the underlying assumption is that people are qualified to decide for themselves how to live although apparently this is not the case.
Where all of this gets distorted is in the monopoly/oligopoly situation, where you get the item the manufacturer wants to sell you or nothing at all, or in the government obligation situation where you have to get the item despite the fact that you don't want or need it at all, or in the situation of addictive drugs (cocaine, caffeine, etc) where people start spending money on them to avoid the withdrawal symptoms even when the actual pleasure gained from the drugs no longer exists.
I'm not really a capitalist, but economic theory makes sense. However like most theories it really has very little to do with the world we actually live in. And I agree that this world is very far from Nirvana or any other fictional plane of bliss.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
What if a law was passed invalidating all porkbarrelling clauses in federal legislation, including retroactively?
Only because the Democrat Congress (which had well over 60% majority) let him.
They could have easily blocked Reagan from doing anything.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I guess this is just so there can be some jobs in a few places in the country. We would do much better paying 1000 people to dig holes in random places and another 1000 to fill them in. Replicate that all over the country and we could have millions of government jobs and zero unemployment.
The jobs aren't coming back. The jobs were based on making stuff in the US which isn't financially responsible to do anymore. The jobs were also because more and more stuff was needed because people were spending money they really didn't have. End result is that there aren't as many jobs as there used to be. Come back in 30 years and maybe, just maybe there will be unemployment down to 5% again.
If you look at the real numbers you will discover that there are a few more jobless people than anyone wants to admit. It is like 30% of the population today. The unemployment numbers are only those people still (after three years) collecting unemployment and still trying to find a job. Anyone over 40 can basically forget it - they will never have a job again. Anyone without real skills can forget it - an undocumented illegal can do their job for less than half of what they were making. And we still haven't made it attractive for the illegals to leave.
Funniest thing I saw the other day was that Arizona was trying to criminalize undocumented workers with SB1070. Excuse me, they are already criminals. The moment they crossed the border they were a criminal.
The problem for people not working is there is no more welfare program that someone can get government assistance for 20 years on. So what does a 50-year-old person that will never work again do until they are 65 and eligible for Social Security? Live with their parents?
Think of NASA as a government jobs program because it certainly isn't a space program anymore. We've been there and found out that it isn't popular enough with people. So, we're not going there anymore except with other people's hardware. I give that five years before we give up on using other people's hardware as well.
Uhhh...because you get more than six reps in a room and they'll vote in lock step, no matter what, whereas a hundred democrats in a room won't even be able to agree where to have lunch? Lets face it, we really are pretty much a one party country now, as the Dems couldn't even agree on who would pick up the check at the titty bar. You got about a bazillion "factions" from the DINOs to the ultra libs, the pro this or anti that and the ONLY thing they have in common is they can't agree on shit.
Hell look at how the dems couldn't even muster enough support to keep the reps from ramming the tax break for those making a million plus, which with the current mood of the country should have been a slam dunk. Lets face it, we need a good three or four new parties, because what we got now is one party and a bunch of guys that just stand around and argue with each other.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Of course, the very fact that creating X jobs gives such political gain should tell you something about where private-sector economic efficiency has led.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Since they know the program is cancelled, I hope they're not actually spending any of that money continuing the project. Can the government request for/force them to pay the money back?
That would be congressional *action*, would it not? If they hadn't acted to insert the 70 words, this wouldn't be a problem.
Property law should use #'EQ, not #'EQUAL.
Did you seriously link a verbatim reproduction of TFA with emphasis added?
How far from March 2011 is it to the Constellation finish line? Do we reach a point where we've invested so much
money we might as well finish it? I'm aware of the principle of not overvaluing sunk costs, but geez -- $500mil is
a lot of money.
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
I was up by the ATK plant last month. My Aunt died. She had lived within sight of the Morton Thiokol plant on the Utah-Idaho border for almost 30 years. Her Husband retired from it. ATK has displays set up out front of some of the solid fuel rockets they make. Most are military medium or short range types. The shuttle boosters are featured too.
What if they could have a successful orbital insertion by March? The have the Contract, they can get paid for any work done. If they do, they might be able to get the full contract value. It would be a nice touch. NASA even has a history of canceling replacement programs for the Shuttle, just before they work.
That would be sweet! maybe ATK could compete with SpaceX.
Everybody knows 3 people with my name.
...someone, hold on, could make a family of rockets for that kind of money. Complete, with a few test flights. Just sayin'.
What modern Obelix would say today? Of course, "Those crazy Americans!".