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NJ Server Farms Remake the US Financial Markets

1sockchuck writes "The engine of Wall Street has shifted from the stock exchange floor to data centers in New Jersey, where computer-driven trading now accounts for 56 percent of all trading activity, according to the New York Times. 'While this Tron landscape is dominated by the titans of Wall Street, it affects nearly everyone who owns shares of stock or mutual funds, or who has a stake in a pension fund or works for a public company,' the Times writes. 'For better or for worse, part of your wealth, your livelihood, is throbbing through these wires.' There are also photos of the data centers powering the high-speed trading operations, while 60 Minutes has video of a huge new 'liquidity center' run by the NYSE."

24 of 216 comments (clear)

  1. short term skimming by FuckingNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And nothing of value was gained.

    1. Re:short term skimming by pyite · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We paid for your dumb errors in the subprime crisis, so now that you are creating speculation on yet another imaginary value (physical closeness to the servers of the stock exchange ? Really ? Changes in the value of a company on the millisecond scale ? Are you serious ? ) you better show your whole scheme.

      Whose dumb errors in the subprime crisis? Those errors were made by multiple parties. First and foremost, the people buying more than they could afford. It's taboo to demonize "Main Street," but let's face it, if people could, or chose to, do basic math, they would have realized they couldn't afford what they were buying. Second, stupid mortgage companies who relied on people's word that they could afford things. Third, those who thought tranching baskets of mortgages and pricing the tranches using default correlations for each tranche that were advantageous just to that tranche rather than rooted in reality.

      These three groups of people have almost nothing in common with those who trade equities and equities derivatives. So, please, don't put two things you don't understand into the same bucket simply because both are products of "Wall Street."

      --

      "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

    2. Re:short term skimming by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have no problem considering a part of "main street" has some responsibility. But people who can't pay their debts is a problem known since millenniums (yes it is). Banker is a profession that is as old as this problem (yes it is). Having bankers unable to evaluate at least approximately the risk of a debt is like a farmer who forgot to plant seeds one whole year. Unforgettable. They showed grave incompetence, we now have to look behind their shoulders for their every move because no politician has the guts to make them pay.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:short term skimming by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Informative

      It doessn't. Recent regulatory changes at the SEC, and promises to "review" the situation, have carefully avoided striking at the heart of the larger investment companies and groups that both engage in this sort of behavior, and have enough spare cash to fund politicians and arrange their own "reports" for the SEC on how disemboweling thihs sort of high-speed trading would "hinder the market".

      It's insider trading with a high-tech cover. The data is not avaialble to ordinary investors in time for them to take keaningful action: the millisecond of having their servers right near the NySE overwhelm the reponse times of any ordinary trading entity and prevent their meaningful responses.

    4. Re:short term skimming by Dhalka226 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First and foremost, the people buying more than they could afford. It's taboo to demonize "Main Street," but let's face it, if people could, or chose to, do basic math, they would have realized they couldn't afford what they were buying.

      While that's not untrue, it's somewhat disingenuous. If people knew basic auto repair, they could save a lot of money on oil changes and auto mechanics. If people knew basic home improvement skills, they could save a lot of money on handymen and repair guys.

      But most people don't, and in that void of ignorance, fear or indifference exists entire industries who we collectively tag with the sometimes laughable title of "professional." A person doing some basic math might have figured out they couldn't afford what they were buying (and you're grossly oversimplifying the problem, by the way), but instead they relied on a series of "professionals" to do it for them -- professionals who are paid handsomely, not only in terms of their own salaries but in terms of commissions (real estate) and interest (banks/mortgage companies). Both of these parties nodded their heads emphatically and declared "of COURSE you can afford this, don't worry about it! Sign here!"

      They did it from simple greed, and from a misguided belief that eh, even if we have to boot these freeloaders out of their house we have some of their money in pocket and real estate prices keep going up so we won't lose THAT much when we sell it to the next sucker. Through their greed, and their staggering unprofessionalism, they essentially collapsed two entire industries with a trickle-down effect that collapsed even more; industries that survive today only through the intervention of the federal government, right or wrong.

      Some extra personal accountability is certainly a good idea to protect ourselves, but when we hire or deal with professionals I don't think any sane person expects them to be so wholly unprofessional as to tank their entire industry. They don't deserve to be let off the hook for that, not to any degree, even if peoples' ignorance is what allows them to operate that way. Ignorance, and more importantly knowledge of their own ignorance, is precisely why people hire professionals in the first place (not that there is much option when we're talking about a mortgage, I admit).

      That these idiots are distinct from equities traders I do not deny, though I also don't think they're quite as separate as you make them out to be.

    5. Re:short term skimming by pyite · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In fairness to the tranche modelers, all historical data indicated that foreclosures in geographically distinct areas were in fact largely uncorrelated. The housing bubble broke this assumption rather badly, but that was on those who made the bubble, not the quants.

      My point was a bit more subtle. Those holding equity tranches want defaults to be highly correlated. Although high default correlation means if one fails, they all fail, it also means if one doesn't fail, none of the others do either. So equity tranches were priced using that correlation. Senior tranches want little default correlation, because it means that defaults are random and will be absorbed by the equity tranches. Those tranches were priced using that correlation.

      Where High Frequency Trading really makes money is from trusts missing out on fractions of a percent - HFT is sort of a more legit version of the "steal the rounded off interest" scheme from Office Space - on an individual level it is meaningless, you may lose 1 cent per share, but doing this enough makes it profitable to the brokerages.

      Making fractions of a cent on spreads is a market maker's reward for providing liquidity and taking risk for a large price swing in the period of time in which they are still holding the securities (in the case of an underlier) or haven't yet hedged (in the case of some derivative).

      --

      "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

  2. I Can't Help But Think... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that automated trading has and will cause more trouble than it is worth to the overall economy.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  3. Re:Throbbing money by migla · · Score: 3, Informative

    >Can pennies throb?

    Sure. It's a widely used idiom, popular in phrases such as "The sweaty lumberjack lustfully thrust his throbbing pennies deep into the moist slot of the pink piggy-bank."

    --
    Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
  4. Humans in the loop. by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

    “Markets are there for capital formation and long-term investment, not for gaming,” [Michael Durbin] says here

    Amen to that. The markets should operate as though there are humans at every step. Otherwise there's no need for humans on the edges, either.

  5. Re:Whoop De Doo by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is just one difference, though. The trading machines, regardless of their location, have the same length cable to the switch. Even if it means coiling some of it up. The latency demands are so strict, the customers even care about the cable length - and it's just easier to give all the customers the same length than to maintain tiered pricing on the racks.

  6. Average stock purchase held under a minute by cpm99352 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Majority of trading (at least in the US) is computer. According to this, average length of time a stock is held is under 35 seconds.

    The mainstream financial reporting in the US is a complete joke -- everyone fixates on the Dow, as though it held any meaning. At the end of each day, some "meaningful" reason is given for a less than 1% move, however automated trading never seems to be included.

    Netflix joins the Dow??? Is that what this country is reduced to? No manufacturing, just service?

    Meanwhile, SEC regulation is a total joke, insider selling is rampant, accounting is a joke...

    But, if you're a retiree, where else can you hunt down returns? CDs are long dead.

    1. Re:Average stock purchase held under a minute by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not true either. It is trivially easy to find articles with data to the contrary.

      Are those the articles where flipping a burger into a bun and sticking a piece of lettuce on top is counted as 'manufacturing'?

  7. Re:in-equity by biryokumaru · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This kind of thing always makes me wonder why you see so many homeless people. They could just smash someone's head in with a rock and have a nice, clean, warm home with three squares a day and plenty of time to read or watch TV.

    The reason is, those homeless people, unlike the bankers, aren't heartless sociopaths. I think when the bankers rob you of everything you've spent your life saving, you may find the same is true of you, unfortunately.

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
  8. They put the servers in The Situation Room by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Funny

    In other words, the IT guys who maintain these servers all have greasy hair, don't wear shirts, and are total douchebags.

  9. Re:in-equity by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's 72 hours of liquidity gone, there is an opportunity cost there ... an opportunity cost measured in true dollars going into the pockets of speculators. Basically we have traded wider spreads for higher instability, is it a good trade? Maybe, dunno.

    Personally I think bids and offers should be matched up only once every hour ... I don't see any need for this stuff to happen at wire speeds.

  10. Common View, Common Error by istartedi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you can find a way to reduce bid-ask spreads without this kind of stuff, then I'll agree. Until then, I can't join the chorus of detractors.

    With liquidity in the market, anyone who buys stock gets a narrow spread. Take liquidity out of the market, and you send us back to the dark days when stocks would trade at $1/8th spreads if you were lucky. $1/4 was common. Not only did you pay higher commissions, you paid the spread.

    Unless you're pining for the days when you called your broker, paid him a percentage of the trade, and he placed your order in a market with a huge spread then you should be thanking the liquidity providers, not bashing them.

    The current system doesn't hurt the little guy. The old system made it so the little guy wouldn't even think about it. I know, because I came of age when the old system was still in place for a few years. Buying in with a $1/4 spread on something trading for $10-$20, and then waiting for a significant percentage gain just to cover the spread??? No thank-you. HFTs? I LOVE them.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Common View, Common Error by e065c8515d206cb0e190 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No offense, but if you need a definition of bid-ask spread, you need to learn the basics before criticizing HFTs.

    2. Re:Common View, Common Error by istartedi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Perhaps you could provide more details so I can understand what exactly you mean by "bid-ask spread", and how exactly HFT lowers it by holding onto stocks for a few hundred milliseconds.

      OK, let's say there's a hypothetical security X.

      X BID 45 @$0.50 ASK 10 @$0.70

      If you want to buy security X, you could try bumping up the bid to $0.55 and see if anybody will temporarily lower their ask that far.

      The market for security X has terrible liquidity.

      Now let's say somebody looks at this, and sees the awful liquidity. They say, hey, the market-makers suck. Let's do something better. They start "scalping" security X. They place bids at $0.55, then immediately flip for $0.65.

      Now the market for security X has better liquidity. Somebody interested in X might be more inclined to buy, knowing that it doesn't have to rise too far before they can reasonably cover the spread.

      The market-maker just bested the previous market maker. Market-maker A is shut out.... unless he can narrow the spread even further.

      Now, the market-maker doesn't actually want to speculate in X if he can avoid it. It's in their interest to hold for as short a time as possible, and to make all their money off scalping or "skimming" as you call it. Without some kind of market-maker, the spreads are wider. You can hate the market-maker if you like; but try finding a better way to narrow spreads? I haven't heard of it.

      That's how it works, in a nutshell. I'm glossing over a lot of detail, such as rebates and the different ETNs, and a lot of other stuff.

      Note, I'm not belonging to an HFT religion. I'm just seeing it as "the worst system except for all the others". I don't believe in just turning these guys loose without regulation or oversight.

      You asked for an explanation of how this stuff works, and I've given you my best understanding of it. I don't hold myself out as an expert. I'm just somebody who has been trading a bit, and watching markets since my teens...

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    3. Re:Common View, Common Error by LordNacho · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've worked in markets for years, though nobody can really can themselves an expert in something so complex.

      As for dividends, there's no requirement that you hold on to high-div stocks for a long time. Also, and this is critical, you know exactly when that dividend is coming out of the price. So, basically, it completely doesn't matter whether the stock is paying a high dividend or not, since the liquidity providers know this. Having a narrow spread is good for you no matter what you're buying.

      BTW, you might like to consider that ALL prices can be considered as bid/ask spreads. It's just that in your everyday life, people tend to only show you ONE side. In a supermarket, all the prices are Walmart's ASK price. Walmart got your potatoes by BIDDING for them from the wholesaler. They pocket the difference (bid-ask spread) just like a market maker.

      When you buy a house, you are BIDDING (though confusingly this is colloquially called an offer on a house). If the owner is wanting 100K, and you are willing to pay 95K, one of these things will happen: 1) You cross the spread to LIFT THE OFFER 2)He crosses the spread to HIT THE BID 3) One of you moves their price and either 1 or 2 happens. The guy who crossed the spread is the aggressor, and he basically has swapped 5K for immediacy, ie to make the deal happen now rather than wait.

    4. Re:Common View, Common Error by LordNacho · · Score: 3, Informative

      Analogy for why you need a market maker:

      There's a market where farmers come to sell pigs, and butchers come to buy them. Unfortunately, the farmers and the butchers are not there at the same time. They might arrange a market day, which concentrates the trading in certain periods. Fine. But that leaves risk. What if market day is in a few months, and farmer doesn't know whether it's worth making some more pigs? Maybe he'll keep safe and decide not to. Result: fewer pigs, even if butcher actually wanted to buy them.

      So, let's keep the market open. But farmers and butchers won't know when to show up? What if I go to market, and no butchers are there? Same problem as before... take less risk.

      Enter the market maker. He doesn't know how to farm or butcher, but he does hang out at the market all day. He has a good idea of how many pigs are needed, because each time a real farmer/butcher comes in, someone is asking around about the pig price. So he uses his own money to buy pigs from farmers and sells them to butchers, based on what he thinks the balance is. So now, farmer guy can offload his pigs, and butcher guy can buy them, without having to coordinate with each other. They just talk to the middle man.

      Now, the middle man has to manage the pig inventory. What prices does he make? Well, again, he thinks about risk. If he makes a wide spread, he'll make more money on each turn. But that will discourage the farmers/butchers, because they lose more from when they do their business. But if he tightens, he'll make less. He'd have to have enough business to compensate.

      Enter middle man 2. He spots the same opportunity. Interestingly, now the two middle men need to trade with each other. And also, their trading doesn't need to be governed by the external customers.

  11. Re:in-equity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you match bids and offers once per hour, you're going to widen the spread pretty dramatically. It's no coincidence that the spreads have tightened up as trading speed has increased. If you force market markers to hold securities for at least one hour, they're going to have to widen their spreads pretty dramatically in order to compensate for the risk.

    You would also see significantly higher volatility in the market. The way things currently stand, you can get a very good idea of what a security is worth at any given instant. If you have to wait an hour before the market updates, it's going to be hard to predict what the next trade price will be. That's going to result in a lot more price volatility, which will also increase spreads.

    Another consequence is that you're likely to put smaller shops completely out of business. Holding a security for a minimum of one hour in an environment where pricing information is not available is just not something that smaller firms will be able to do (if nothing else, net capital regulations will foreclose it, due to the enormous risk). For the big firms, it will be like a return to the good old days- all those pesky HTFs gone, and only 2-3 market makers for any given security. This, more than anything else, will increase spreads and spell the end of the exchanges and a return us to the days of market makers. "You want to buy 100 shares of MSFT? You'll pay what we say. What are you going to do, go buy it from someone else? Good luck with that!" "You're ready to sell your 100 shares of MSFT? You'll get what we're willing to give you. What are you going to do, go to someone else? Try to trade it on an exchange? Har har har!"

    This is a complex situation. The rise of the HFTs was one of the biggest shakeups in Wall Street history- the large firms lost huge chunks of their control of the market, and are still reeling from the shock of lost profits. They would be more than happy to see the end of HFT and a return to the days when they controlled the market. HFT's may cost the market $0.01/share, but that's nothing compared to the bad old days of monopoly market makers extracting $2/share or more.

  12. Re:in-equity by Gorobei · · Score: 3, Informative

    Personally I think bids and offers should be matched up only once every hour ... I don't see any need for this stuff to happen at wire speeds.

    Numerous markets had, and do have, this "feature." For example, trade-at-close aggregates all the orders at the day's close, and everyone gets the same price if the close price is within their limit.

    The effect of this feature was to benefit the technologically sophisticated traders (I was one back in the nineties.) You waited until a few seconds before the close, then slammed limit orders onto everything that moved: the poor retail guy who had put in an order 1 minute ago was your counterparty, and he had just given you a free option for 58 seconds.

  13. Re-couple Market Access With Market Making by tyen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The standard explanation proffered by the HFT owners and customers is they "add more liquidity". This is repeated so many times that laypeople buy it; see typical comments in this thread like "we have traded wider spreads for higher instability". This is not the entire story: the liquidity is for them, not for you . That there is sometimes a spillover liquidity and spread improvement for participants in the wider market is merely a convenient observation suitable for PR. The past and ongoing flash crashes demonstrate that when the liquidity trades against them, they pull this vaunted liquidity quicker than you can blink, literally. They're not going to leave money on the table supplying liquidity into the market if they don't have to.

    Another oft-made claim is "anyone is welcome to do what we do, there are no barriers to entry". That is not quite the entire story as well. The defining feature of an HFT firm over the retail investor apart from scale (you need accredited investor-scale financial depth just to ante up the money to the exchange to cover their risk for you fracking up your code and making market on your fracked up orders they then have to make good upon) is access, as the articles this story links to amply documents. They are quite different from most market participants. While it is true that one doesn't have to have special institutional privileges and access to buy these newfangled digital-age "exchange seats", and "merely satisfying" some financial and technical criteria make these seats putatively easier to obtain than the old seats, make no mistake about it, they are more privileged than the old school NYSE exchange seat holders: they enjoy special access to the markets that "non-seat holders" do not, namely preferential positioning in the order flow inspection pipeline, or put another way, they enjoy market making access without market making responsibilities. Just because you no longer have to have a hallowed name descending from the Mayflower, a family history intertwined with the exchange, and an imposing granite edifice for offices to qualify for an exchange seat that buys access to the order flow doesn't mean that preferential access is open to everyone. The day the exchanges open up the HFT level and quality of tick access for the same price as 15-minute delayed ticker quotes, would be the day that I withdraw this observation.

    If you chafe at these new special breed of privileged market participants, then an old school remedy is still available: with privileged market access, comes market making responsibilities and market making regulatory oversight. Perhaps not as much responsibility as the exchanges, but definitely more than those without the preferential access, commensurate with their impact upon the market as shown by the flash crashes. Let them have the special access, but make good on the liquidity and spread claims with regulatory enforcement; that is, they continue eating at the trough even when the liquidity and spread moves against them. It didn't stop the old school market makers from coming up with different licenses to print money, so they'll still make great bank (though they'll bitch like a platoon of coked-up noob IB's at Penthouse for having to run through regulatory hoops that didn't exist before, instead of spending that time cranking the next batch of algorithms onto FPGAs), but coupling privileged market access with market making responsibilities did truly impart long-term benefits to participants in the wider market. Arguable if the benefit was proportional, but as long as we will tolerate differential access, we might as well at least maintain the marginal benefits of status quo ante, eh?

    1. Re:Re-couple Market Access With Market Making by alexmin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When retail investor enters orders into his Schwab/Ameritrade/Interactive Brokers web portal, guess where those orders go? Yep, his broker colo facilities in Mahwah (NYSE), Carteret (NASDAQ) or Weehawken (ARCA/BATS). Main difference is that those orders get exercised by broker-owned systems and not customer's. Want your's gear in place? Power, cooling are not free as you probably know so be ready to pay up beyond $10/month account maintenance fee.

      Anyway, you are missing the point. Investment in stock market does NOT require frequent executions. It is about buying when the stuff is cheap and then holding long time (like many years long) and then selling when you need money (not when it's expensive, that's speculation.) Speed is not important, valueing correctly to know when stuff is cheap is paramount.

      I am involved in trading for living but did not touch my personal account in many-many months.