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Scientists Advocate Replacing Cattle With Insects

rhettb writes "Scientists in the Netherlands have discovered that insects produce significantly less greenhouse gas per kilogram of meat than cattle or pigs. Their study, published in the online journal PLoS, suggests that a move towards insect farming could result in a more sustainable — and affordable — form of meat production."

43 of 760 comments (clear)

  1. More allergenic? by TheLink · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Would they be more allergenic though?

    I know more people who are allergic to arthropods than who are allergic to beef/chicken/pork.

    Not sure why this is so- maybe it's the exposure to dust mites?

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    1. Re:More allergenic? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Plus we're not a million miles away from being able to culture meat in vats at this point, which need not produce any greenhouse gases at all if set up right. I know a lot of people in developing countries consume insects as a staple form of food, the squirm factor for western audiences would be quite high however.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

    2. Re:More allergenic? by samjam · · Score: 5, Funny

      Typical human selfishness trying to hog all the life on the planet.

      Surely it is more generous to let your protein have a chance at sentience before you eat it - and we must eat it to survive.

      I find it very nice that my protein (that I must eat) can walk around, be happy, find it's own food - even reproduce - before it is eaten.

      Condemning so much of the protein we consume to a life in a tank could perhaps be the most selfish thing we have deliberately done as a species.

    3. Re:More allergenic? by somersault · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Eating is a selfish act. Pretty much all of life is a selfish competition.

      Either get over it, or take your argument to its logical conclusion and stop living.

      I hope you were just trolling.

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      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:More allergenic? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Funny
      That's possible the worst argument I've ever heard.

      I absolutely agree.

      In fact, the real problem with using insects for protein will be milking the jumpy little buggers. I mean, even if you can get 'em to squat over the bucket, ordinary fingers will just be way too big for those tiny nipples. We'll have to train squads of baby capuchin monkeys, and you know what a short attention span THEY have. In five minutes, their smocks'll be off and they'll be flinging poo and demanding very small bananas.

      It'll never work. Madness, I tell you.

      --
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    5. Re:More allergenic? by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Growing meat is like nuclear fusion. The principles are extremely well-understood, but the implimentation is surprisingly tricky. (I've heard that one of the current issues is texture. Unexercised meat* supposedly isn't any more satisfying to the teeth than Quorn.) PETA's $1m prize for commercial vat chicken is probably perfectly safe, given the 2012 deadline.

      *Admittedly most food animals don't get a lot of exercise anyway, but it's still above zero.

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      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    6. Re:More allergenic? by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, we don't have true democracy anywhere in the world. We vote for leaders, rather than vote on issues. I usually think that I'd much prefer to vote on issues, but considering how ignorant or misinformed people are on scientific issues, it would in fact be a bad idea to let the general public best decide on issues like this.

      Thinking that Democracy is the ideal solution in all situations is rather foolish.

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      which is totally what she said
    7. Re:More allergenic? by Calydor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you ever compared the meat bought at a random supermarket to the meat bought straight from a small farm where the animal has lived a really good life until it was taken to the butcher? Believe me, there is a MASSIVE difference - without wanting to mimic the vegan "meat tastes of fear!" line, you really can taste if the animal had a good life.

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    8. Re:More allergenic? by beerbear · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "They" are not just starting, "they" have been doing it for quite a while, at least here in Germany. I remember having a very interesting class on that subject back in high-school (14 years ago)
      'If those guys over there can't handle the environment, then it's our right, no, our duty to invade them and make them care'. Luckily enough, not many people are paying attention to them.
      And the vast majority of ecological minded people are still deeply rooted in democracy.
      Please be careful not to lump them all together.

      --
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    9. Re:More allergenic? by Magada · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm quite sure you could zap and/or stretch vat-grown muscle once in a while to get it in shape. It's being done to comatose patients, why not to bits of cow?

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    10. Re:More allergenic? by Sockatume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, that's the sort of thing they're thinking of doing. Exercise routines. I imagine that the whole thing would look rather horrific, we'll probably replace the whole "watching sausage get made" metaphor with something more general.

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      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    11. Re:More allergenic? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      you already eat bugs.

      Eat anything preprocessed? insects are in them, ground up with the rest of it.
      Do you sleep with a net over your head? no? you eat bugs at night.

      --
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    12. Re:More allergenic? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, we don't have true democracy anywhere in the world. We vote for leaders, rather than vote on issues

      Is there some deficiency in how politics is taught in America that causes people to constantly conflate direct democracy with democracy and not realise that democracy and republic are orthogonal issues? Both direct and representative democracy are forms of democracy (rule by the demos - the people). Oh, and before you say we don't have direct democracy 'anywhere in the world', I suggest you visit some of the Swiss cantons.

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    13. Re:More allergenic? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I require blind trials before I'll accept such a claim, but it does seem plausible. A more active life and slower growth would have some effect on muscle structure and the amount of fat, which may very well result in different taste.

    14. Re:More allergenic? by Peeteriz · · Score: 4, Informative

      You really can taste if the animal has been fed from pastures or from industrial feedstock; and you can taste if the muscles have been used by the animal moving around. Good life? Well, there's some correlation with these issues and 'good life', but happiness is not so relevant.

    15. Re:More allergenic? by arikol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      yes, it's the fat.
      And fat from grass/moss fed animals is way, way better tasting than from grain/feed fed animals.

      The fat absorbs a lot of the taste of what the animal eats. Do Americans then taste of french fries and McDonald's?

    16. Re:More allergenic? by ProppaT · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The grossest thing about meat in the grocery store is all the chemicals they have to spray the meat down with to kill all the bad stuff and disease picked up from the animal from living in such poor conditions. These animals are sickly, yet we slaughter them, spray them down, and eat them. It's a terrible system, but it's what you get living in a society of heavy meat eaters that demand low cost over quality. It's really a shame.

      --
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    17. Re:More allergenic? by silentcoder · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a much bigger factor: diet.
      Free range farming means a much more natural diet for the animals and you can definitely taste the difference.

      More-over it can even be seen with your eyes sometimes. I started buying exclusively free-range eggs some time ago (because frankly while I love meat I am opposed to senseless cruelty in the process and I can think of no crueler farming method than battery chickens) - and there is a clear difference.
      They don't just taste different (more flavorful) but actually look different. Free range egg have a decidedly stronger yellow yolk than battery-farmed eggs break any one of each and compare the free range egg yolk is a darker, richer yellow sometimes even hinting toward light browns, orange and reds.
      You can always tell the difference - the pale one is the battery-farmed egg.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    18. Re:More allergenic? by AltairDusk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Diet makes a big difference in how meat tastes too. My family hunts and depending on the available food sources in an area the deer will taste different. People who often find deer taste very "gamey" should try changing the area they hunt in, this is often a result of the diet. Taking deer in an area with abundant sources of alfalfa and beech nuts will usually result in very good meat.

    19. Re:More allergenic? by operagost · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bullcrap. When I use Monster electrical cords on the lights in my henhouse, the eggs have even RICHER yolks than free-range, plus the hen's clucks sound SILKIER.

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    20. Re:More allergenic? by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The grossest thing about meat in the grocery store is all the chemicals they have to spray the meat down with to kill all the bad stuff and disease picked up from the animal from living in such poor conditions.

      Well that's a load of shit. Please, do tell us which horrible horrible "chemicals" are sprayed on these poor diseased carcases, exactly. Maybe you could also link to a peer-reviewed study showing the significantly higher incidence of disease amongst animals raised using different methods. Go ahead, I'll wait.

      I can easily imagine without resorting to peer-reviewed journal articles that there are "conditions" that could result in higher and lower incidence of disease among animals. After all, we know from our own experience as animals that our own living conditions greatly affect the incidence of disease in our populations. Consider typhoid, a disease that all but disappears in areas with modern sanitation.

      I see no reason to believe that animals raised in poor sanitary conditions, would be sicklier than animals raised in good sanitary conditions. Do you really need a cite? Really? You were just trolling with that one.

      As for chemicals used in cleaning carcasses -- besides water and steam -- here's an abstract from an article in the "Journal of Food Protection". Your wait is over!

      Reports on the microbiological effects of decontaminating treatments routinely applied to carcasses at beef packing plants indicate that washing before skinning may reduce the numbers of enteric bacteria transferred from the hide to meat. Washing skinned carcasses and/or dressed sides can reduce the numbers of aerobes and Escherichia coli by about 1 log unit, and pasteurizing sides with steam or hot water can reduce their numbers by > 1 or > 2 log units, respectively. Spraying with 2% lactic acid, 2% acetic acid, or 200 ppm of peroxyacetic acid can reduce the numbers of aerobes and E. coli by about 1 log, but such treatments can be ineffective if solutions are applied in inadequate quantities or to meat surfaces that are wet after washing. Trimming and vacuum cleaning with or without spraying with hot water may be largely ineffective for improving the microbiological conditions of carcasses. When contamination of meat during carcass dressing is well controlled and carcasses are subjected to effective decontaminating treatments, the numbers of E. coli on dressed carcasses can be [less than] 1 CFU/ 1,000 cm2. However, meat can be recontaminated during carcass breaking with E. coli from detritus that persists in fixed and personal equipment. The adoption at all packing plants of the carcass-dressing procedures and decontaminating treatments used at some plants to obtain carcasses that meet a very high microbiological standard should be encouraged, and means for limiting recontamination of product during carcass breaking and for decontaminating trimmings and other beef products should be considered.

      There are 10 more articles found with the search "cleaning beef carcasses" at pubmed.

      And that was just the first suggestion from Google.

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      I am not a crackpot.
  2. Or Ostrich by Micah · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've also heard it suggested that ostrich would be a pretty sustainable replacement.

    1. Re:Or Ostrich by jadrian · · Score: 4, Informative
    2. Re:Or Ostrich by somersault · · Score: 5, Funny

      In the short term we also have to factor in the costs of making our fences fucking huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge

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      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:Or Ostrich by Cimexus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not if it's cooked *juuuust* right. but 5 seconds on the heat can make the difference between undercooked, just right, and overcooked with kangaroo. Having cooked it quite a few times it's just too damn annoying to bother again.

      Exactly right. Kangaroo is very very lean so even a fraction too long on the grill makes it incredibly chewy. It's damn good when it's done right (and healthier than most meats). But getting it right is so hard that it may never be a mass-market commercial meat for that reason alone.

      I've cooked kangaroo 3 or 4 times and only once did it come out 'perfectly', IMO. Then again I'm a 28 year old male - my cooking skills are not what you'd call 'good' ;)

    4. Re:Or Ostrich by dbIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sounds good now, but later we'll rue the day we switched.
      There's also the option of vertical farming. Not a good idea though. I'm sure it will all end in tiers.

      Back to to the insects. Sky prawns FTW!

  3. Eat Them! by NZheretic · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "When man entered the genetics age, he opened the door to a new world. What we may eventually find in that new world, nobody can predict."

    Countdown to breeding larger insects for human consumption starts in ...

  4. Re:Not a great idea by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With the meat being so far outside what's usually considered food ...so far outside of what YOU consider food. There are plenty of people around the world who enjoy insects.

    Tastes are entirely cultural: the French enjoy snails, Swedes enjoy rotten fish meat... You may or may not like insects, but they're perfectly valid sources of food.

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    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  5. Re:Not a great idea by zrbyte · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to this guy on TED, you eat lots of insects with processed foods already.

  6. Eating them is the NORM by sznupi · · Score: 5, Informative

    Eating insects is quite widespread, apart from few areas of cultural oddity (highly visible though; and we do eat other invertebrates), not to mention at least an order of magnitude more efficient from vertebrate farm animals when it comes to transformation of resources into meat.

    In the form of industrially-produced meat paste (for a start) it would be probably hard or impossible to taste a difference; maybe military could introduce it to its diets - I imagine grunts can't whine quite as much as a typical consumer, and it would be one good part of the puzzle towards solving this, might get acceptance from there.

    As a matter of fact - you all eat insects every day; standards for grain, flour, vegetables, etc. generally speak of "maximum number of insect body parts per unit"

    (and feeding the world in a sustainable way - not exactly an Idle-grade material)

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
  7. Re:oh my by Stooshie · · Score: 4, Funny

    *smug*Makes me even happier that I am a vegetarian*smug*

    There, fixed that for ya!

    --
    America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
  8. Om nom nom by Bazman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In places where large clouds of flies congregate, such as Lake Malawi, the locals net millions of flies and compress them into little cakes. Handy protein packs. I'm sure they may have some nice recipes.

  9. Simpsons did it by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remember the ribwich?

    And how Krusty said in the end when asked what animal it was made of "Think smaller. Think more legs"?

    It's all in the commercial, I tell you. Just don't tell people what they're eating, slap a lot of MSG-loaded sauce on it and it will sell.

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. Re:Where's that "fucking retarded" tag, again? by sznupi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    humans being apes with less hair

    Technically, an average human has more hair follicles on his or her body than an average chimpanzee. The type of hair is responsible for visible differences, for "nakedness".

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    One that hath name thou can not otter
  11. cattle are very efficient protein concentrators by nido · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cows are very efficient at converting grass inputs into human-usable protein, in the form of milk.

    Cattle eat grass and weeds (high-quality protein!), and can operate on rocky slopes where John Deere can't farm.

    While all cows start their life in a pastures, agribusiness finishes cattle on feedlots because it's much quicker to fatten animals up on grain than grass. ConAgra doesn't care that grain-finished beef has 1/2 as much beta-carotene, 1/5 as much Vitamin A, and 1/5 as much Vitamin E as cows that have eaten grass from start to finish.

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  12. Re:How about: less people by ianare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And who gets to implement these rules, and how ? Very few people will ever voluntarily accept to have reproduction so closely monitored and restricted. It would be inhumane, degrading, and hypocritical.
    I do agree with the education and empowerement of women, but they will never be able to do this if they have 6+ children.

    So how do you reduce familly size in a humane manner ? The answer might surprise you, as it is paradoxal : get rid of infant mortality. This has been proven in every developing country : the FIRST step to reducing population is to completely eliminate infant mortality. Once nearly all children reach adulthood, people have less children, simply because they don't need to have as many. Once this happens, THEN education steps in and teaches people about family planning. Family planning should be tought at an early age, with high school and elementary school kids learning about condoms and safe sex. They will then disseminate this information to their parents.

  13. Re:Added Bonus! by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Quite frankly, you'd eat a lot less McD if you knew what well-prepared food tastes like.

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  14. Re:How about: less people by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Then we need to get busy with the cultural imperialism, fast. Only two known methods to being a society's birth rate under replacement, the wealth associated iwth classical capitialism and the horrors of Communist China's One Child policy. So pick one. I think most people would prefer to be free and wealthy vs ground under the heels of Communist oppression.

    Seriously, look up the stats, no Free Society with a well functioning, wealth creating (ignore the current recession) economy, is currently growing with the exception of the US and that is due to immigration. Take out the higher birth rates among the 1st generation immigrants and the US birthrate really sucks. The red states are outbreeding the blue states but they ain't exactly exploding anymore. Europe and Japan are on the verge of democide.

    So yes a modern society has a higher per capita impact on the environment but there are upsides to balance it out. Not to mention that wealthy countries have the excess wealth to worry about environmental concerns. Note the cleaner air and water in western societies. The US actually has more trees than when the first European set foot here. Yes many are farm trees now, but that just means we can plan ahead and replant when we harvest unlike more lawless countries who just slash em down.

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    Democrat delenda est
  15. You're kidding, right? by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Informative

    While it's true that poikilotherms have a far more efficient conversion ratio when it comes to food because they're not burning off all that energy just to maintain body temperature like hot blooded animals do, I am surprised that the first answer from these scientists is culturally unacceptable (well in most western cultures anyway) insects. I mean, what happened to fish? I'm sure that the difference in energy consumption between insects and fish is not all that great when compared to say a cow, sheep or pig. Basically what you feed is what you get in weight gain, it only takes around 1.2kg of food (in some species) to produce 1kg of muscle in fish. That's very efficient. Plus pretty much every culture in the world already eats fish.

    My only thought is that said scientists were worried about the huge water consumption of aquaculture. However they have completely failed to consider the up and coming field of aquaponics which is extremely water efficient (the only loss is evaporation). With aquaponics you also get delicious veggies with your protein - you have to; it's part of the system that cleans your water to keep your fish healthy. Hey but what do I know, I've only met the guy that invented it.

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  16. eating meat: necessary to avoid waste by r00t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The easiest way to make food from a grassy hill with poor soil is a grazing animal. Farm equipment requires flat land. Humans can't live on grass. What else would you do, bulldoze the hills and dump on lots of chemicals to make food crops grow?

    Now consider the beans you so love. What about the rest of the plant? You're wasting nearly all of the plant if you don't eat it, but you can't really eat it because you're human. Feed that to an animal though, and now you have more food.

  17. warm climates only by nten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They are more efficient partly because of their coldbloodedness according to the article. In places with sufficiently long growing seasons that won't be a problem. But you will have to transport the stuff to places with longer cold seasons, adding inefficiency. Cattle have built in warmers.

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    refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
  18. Eet Mor Chitin by Shag · · Score: 5, Funny

    See, you only need to change one letter on the Chick-fil-A cows' signs.

    That was easy.

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    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
  19. Re:Not a great idea by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Funny

    the French enjoy snails

    The French enjoy garlic butter. They add a token amount of snail to it because just eating lumps of garlic butter would be a bit weird.

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