Slashdot Mirror
Some WikiLeaks Contributions To Public Discourse
Hugh Pickens writes "The EFF argues that regardless of the heated debate over the propriety of the actions of WikiLeaks, some of the cables have contributed significantly to public and political conversations around the world. The Guardian reported on a cable describing an incident in Afghanistan in which employees of DynCorp, a US military contractor, hired a 'dancing boy,' an under-aged boy dressed as a woman, who dances for a gathering of men and is then prostituted — an incident that contributed important information to the debate over the use of private military contractors. A cable released by WikiLeaks showed that Pfizer allegedly sought to blackmail a Nigerian regulator to stop a lawsuit against drug trials on children. A WikiLeaks revelation that the United States used bullying tactics to attempt to push Spain into adopting copyright laws even more stringent than those in the US came just in time to save Spain from the kind of misguided copyright laws that cripple innovation and facilitate online censorship. An article by the NY Times analyzed cables released which indicated the US is having difficulties in fulfilling Obama's promise to close the Guantánamo Bay detention camp and is now considering incentives in return for other countries accepting detainees, including a one-on-one meeting with Obama or assistance with the IMF. 'These examples make clear that WikiLeaks has brought much-needed light to government operations and private actions,' writes Rainey Reitman, 'which, while veiled in secrecy, profoundly affect the lives of people around the world and can play an important role in a democracy that chooses its leaders.'"
'Cause leaking is always double-plus good.
Is there a similar site for WikiLeaks?
the case of 'movement for democratic change', which is so very well named (just like the poisonous bills that come to u.s. congress, hint hint) that was trying to topple a ruthless dictator who did not cooperate with united states, and instead place someone else who would be amiable to angloamerican corporations' moves in zimbabwe ? the very thing that caused all american news channels to dedicate their entire fucking daytime broadcasts to zimbabwe, over the course of six months while it was being pushed ? showing randomly running zimbabweans and putting up 8 talking heads to discuss the 'situation' (what situation ? running around of zimbabweans) at this particular day, when they werent able to find anything worthy of reporting ? and in the meantime, doing that while all kinds of shit, from koreas to piracy in high seas to afghanistan and iraq was way too heated to not be reported, but, conveniently not reported, because the fucking 'lets put an american friendly puppet' play was in session in zimbwabwe ?
yeah. THAT case. that zimbabwe. and on the other hand, uniformed, ignorant gullible fools like you. too easy to manipulate.
Read radical news here
In Afghanistan. Please go there.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And such incidents are certainly despicable. But the powers that are probably do not think that this is a good idea. Does the US government want discussions about whether "private armies" are a good idea? Do they want Pfizer outed as a company that pressures third world countries into complying? Or that they bullied Spain into passing insane copyright laws?
Sadly, the interests of the people and their governments are not the same. Which makes me wonder, wasn't there something about "by the people for the people"? If a government does not serve its alleged masters, as a democracy (or republic, for you nitpickers) claims to do, what good is it then?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Somebody actually reading the leaks before forming an opinion about them? Blasphemy!
What's next, a slashdotter reading an article before posting? A Christian reading the bible...?
No sig today...
The law wasn't approved in Spain because the opposing parties didn't support it, true, but that had little to do with wikileaks.
Most Spanish politicians simply ignore the whole wikileaks deal; they don't mention it, publicly, at all. I think many of them don't even understand what wikileaks is (besides the most obvious effects of exposing some of their dirty clothes to the public)
The lack of support happened because the opposing parties didn't get the benefits they wanted in other negotiations. It was a reprisal to the governing party, which proposed the law. It would have happened just the same without wikileaks.
It was one of those occasions in which the egoistical interests of a few benefited the many. Which is funny and sad at the same time.
That's the whole issue, isn't it? How can you objectively prove Wikileaks whether is good or bad for the average person? What's too much or too little transparency?
One interesting side effect I've noticed is that regular news coverage appears to be better. I think Wikileaks has motivated a lot of investigative journalists to step up their game.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
Is why Peter King, who has used his position as a NY Congressman to aid the IRA, has not been denounced for his rank hypocrisy in calling for Assange to be prosecuted.
If Assange can be extradited to the US, I say we should arrest King and offer him up for prosecution by an all-Protestant jury in Northern Ireland...
Just treat people with respect, you fucking douchebag.
Well, that fills my irony quota for the week.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
The difference between individual privacy and government secrecy is that individuals can be directly harmed, while governments (and other organizations, like corporations) can only be exposed, and power shifts hands. Members of an organization need to be informed to make good decisions, and, in the case of a democratic government, the members are the citizens. Secrets and misinformation make an organization/constituency less informed, and more prone to making bad decisions. It's not a matter of privacy, since organizations aren't individuals.
mugabe would be acting like mugabe no matter what. that he uses wikileaks as an excuse to abuse the opposition is just that: a convenient excuse
it's as if you believe mugabe would be a nice decent fellow if wikileaks never came along. do you believe that?
if no, don't blame wikileaks for what assholes do. blame the assholes!
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
A boy (8-15-ish) who dances erotically for a group of men, and is then used as a prostitute.
There was a good documentary on Channel 4 (UK) about it, and there's a decent article here.
There are ways in democratic countries to change the law so that your goals are met. Meeting your goals by breaking the law is imposing your rule on the people. That makes you the dictator.
I thought the USA was the world's shining hope, and what other countries should aspire to become.
You must be an American, then.
Every harsh word you utter has the right address. It only sounds harsh because the one on the envelope is the wrong one.
Here in Denmark, the newspaper Politiken recently got access to all the documents. They found that which the (right-wing) government had publicly said that they would firm ask the US whether the US used Danish airspace for extraordinary rendition, the government privately told the US that they did not really want any answers.
A good example of how WikiLeaks can expose governments acting against their citizens interest. It might not be in the US's interest to expose this, but it is certainly in my interest as a citizen.
I'll bite, what's a foetusus?
The difference between individual privacy and government secrecy is that individuals can be directly harmed, while governments (and other organizations, like corporations) can only be exposed, and power shifts hands. Members of an organization need to be informed to make good decisions, and, in the case of a democratic government, the members are the citizens. Secrets and misinformation make an organization/constituency less informed, and more prone to making bad decisions. It's not a matter of privacy, since organizations aren't individuals.
One of the many problems with this is the demand for 100% governmental transparency unless that involved exposing individual privacy. The extreme views clash.
I wouldn't call it bravery in Assange's case. It appears he's ego driven, and expects the world to worship his name on high with the FSM for having done what he has.
I'm kind of middle ground on it all... I'm happy he's exposed some corruption, but unhappy he leaked it all without investigation.... pretty irresponsible.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
The most serious of torture cases involve placing prisoners in the hands of other nations where the most radical tortures and deaths are applied with great frequency. We urgently need laws that forbid our government from transferring prisoners to other nations.
For those that think it doesn't matter we already allow corporations to run prisons in the US and it isn't much of a reach to think that they might export a burgler from Brooklyn to Egypt for fun and games knowing that that convict will surely perish in custody.
years if not decades of vetting
Like Para-sailin' ?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You mean how he stayed in sweeden until they said he could leave?
or do you mean how he then turned himself in to the police in the UK when the Swedish government changed it's mind?
He's one of those rare people who are actually quite justified to assume conspiracy against him given how many of the post powerful people in the world he and his organisation has pissed off.
He could have hidden perfectly fine if he'd wanted to, there was at least one country(Ecuador) which offered him asylum with no strings attached.
Do some fucking research next time rather than parroting fox news as if they're a real news source.
Hid? He gave his (temporary) address to the UK police. He wasn't hideing. He was just making the Swedish prosecutors go through every piece of paperwork he could, thus ensuring maximum embarassment for them. Last I heard he still is, dragging things out in court as long as possible.
He hid, by turning himself in to Scotland Yard?
Oh, he fought extradition. As was his right. Not the same as hiding, not at all.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Bears don't believe drawing a picture of them is picking a fight.
Which only proves that Muslims aren't bears. No more, no less.
Hey, we all have our hot buttons. I even know a rather famous tribe somewhere on this globe that has members that consider it a provocation when people burn a piece of cloth. But only if the cloth is painted in a particular pattern with red stripes and a blue decorated rectangle. Most other patterns are fine. Just as with the Muslims, only a few hotheads in this tribe get really angry, but it's still a remarkable phenomena.
As always, there are other people of this tribe that consider that anger silly and stupid, but hey, there are always some hotheads. It also doesn't help when someone stokes the fires by describing the so-called provocation in the most exaggerated possible terms. Despicable, I know, but I'm afraid these people exist, both in Muslim countries and with that famous tribe.
He waited until Sweden gave the OK for him to leave their country, and there were no charges against him when he left the country.
He knew this wasn't over, so when he got to the UK, he gave the police his information, so there would be no manhunt if charges were refiled.
Oh yeah, he also turned himself in. Because the best place to run and hide is Scotland Yard.
Whoever modded the parent insightful needs their mod points taken away.
BTW, Assange may be a douche for playin' the game with some of his volunteers...but chances are that your favorite musicians played many more games with their groupies.
:(){
> One of the many problems with this is the demand for 100% governmental transparency unless that involved exposing individual privacy. The extreme views clash.
Which is why the moderate views dominate. Not everything done by the government need be open, but there DOES need to be some means to hold everyone in the government accountable. Giving them unchecked power has a habit of turning out very badly.
Obama promised transparency. Wikileaks delivered it.
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
While I think Islam is a vile practice too sick to be called a religion, especially with their treatment of women and children, to be fair from what I've read that particular "tradition" is only among the Pashtun tribes and the others look down upon them for their sick shit. But the Pashtuns have been very powerful in their territory and as in all things with power comes the ability to do whatever the hell you want and get away with it.
And frankly with all the reports of Blackwater (or whatever bullshit name they call themselves this week) trying to recreate "Full Metal Jacket" all over the middle east while we pay them big bucks to do so honestly we've lost so much of the moral high ground we don't really have much room to talk on the subject of evil shit. A parable about pointing out splinters while there is a log in your eye comes to mind. But blaming the Muslims for what the Pashtuns do would be like blaming Christianity for what those Mormon polygamists do. If you read the article one of the above posters linked to you'll see they went to the local Mullah who said flat footed it is child abuse and that it is happening because there simply isn't ANY law there.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Which is why the moderate views dominate. Not everything done by the government need be open, but there DOES need to be some means to hold everyone in the government accountable. Giving them unchecked power has a habit of turning out very badly.
I completely agree. Alas, you won't find this viewpoint shared by Wikileaks or their supporters it seems.
Hey, we all have our hot buttons. I even know a rather famous tribe somewhere on this globe that has members that consider it a provocation when people burn a piece of cloth.
Horseshit.
Has a Catholic priest issued a death order for someone burning the American flag?
Has anyone been brutally gunned down in public for making a movie critical of America?
Yeah, it might piss people off, but they sure as shit don't get murdered.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
The only brave person surrounding Wikileaks appears to Assnage...
To find other brave wikileaks activists, just look at the names on the subpeona: Jacob Appelbaum @ioerror -Tor spokesman who subbed in for Julian Assange at the HOPE conference, and a lot has been written about him elsewhere, including Rolling Stone. He's on the way back from Iceland to Seattle today, so hopefully he won't be detained again. There's a crowd of wikileaks supporters waiting for him. Rop Gonggrijp @rop_g - Hacker/activist who helped produce and release the Collateral Murder video. He no longer works for wikileaks since he's spending most of his time cracking voting machines in India/Brazil. Birgitta Jónsdóttir @birgittaj - The Icelandic Parliament Member with an impressive history of activism.
All of these people have done more for the spread of democracy and freedom of speech than most of us ever will. No wonder they are under investigation by the DOJ.
Ordinary dition won't work on douchebags like him. I'm surprised they're not throwing him in a tort and demanding habeas of his corpus.
> Alas, you won't find this viewpoint shared by Wikileaks or their supporters it seems.
Yet I am one of those supporters (and I posted the comment to which you replied) and I do hold more moderate views.
In response to the most common criticism, I do not think that WL just "dumped" the cables. They partnered with a variety of responsible news organizations, embargoed them, and gave them time to develop stories using the material. The vast majority still aren't public (feel free to show me where one can get all 250k if I'm wrong, I haven't bothered to look as I have little interest in those which are not newsworthy).
Which secrets do you think their partnering news organizations should not have leaked, exactly? I mean, sure, we can all make up our favorite hypothetical situations that support any viewpoint, so why not stick to real situations and things that have actually happened?
Mankind has a very long history of shady doings in all governments, particularly in the less transparent/accountable parts. Ironically, many of them exist to protect us from their counterparts in foreign governments! Would we all not be better off if nobody could get away with that sort of nonsense?