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Some WikiLeaks Contributions To Public Discourse
Hugh Pickens writes "The EFF argues that regardless of the heated debate over the propriety of the actions of WikiLeaks, some of the cables have contributed significantly to public and political conversations around the world. The Guardian reported on a cable describing an incident in Afghanistan in which employees of DynCorp, a US military contractor, hired a 'dancing boy,' an under-aged boy dressed as a woman, who dances for a gathering of men and is then prostituted — an incident that contributed important information to the debate over the use of private military contractors. A cable released by WikiLeaks showed that Pfizer allegedly sought to blackmail a Nigerian regulator to stop a lawsuit against drug trials on children. A WikiLeaks revelation that the United States used bullying tactics to attempt to push Spain into adopting copyright laws even more stringent than those in the US came just in time to save Spain from the kind of misguided copyright laws that cripple innovation and facilitate online censorship. An article by the NY Times analyzed cables released which indicated the US is having difficulties in fulfilling Obama's promise to close the Guantánamo Bay detention camp and is now considering incentives in return for other countries accepting detainees, including a one-on-one meeting with Obama or assistance with the IMF. 'These examples make clear that WikiLeaks has brought much-needed light to government operations and private actions,' writes Rainey Reitman, 'which, while veiled in secrecy, profoundly affect the lives of people around the world and can play an important role in a democracy that chooses its leaders.'"
'Cause leaking is always double-plus good.
Is there a similar site for WikiLeaks?
the case of 'movement for democratic change', which is so very well named (just like the poisonous bills that come to u.s. congress, hint hint) that was trying to topple a ruthless dictator who did not cooperate with united states, and instead place someone else who would be amiable to angloamerican corporations' moves in zimbabwe ? the very thing that caused all american news channels to dedicate their entire fucking daytime broadcasts to zimbabwe, over the course of six months while it was being pushed ? showing randomly running zimbabweans and putting up 8 talking heads to discuss the 'situation' (what situation ? running around of zimbabweans) at this particular day, when they werent able to find anything worthy of reporting ? and in the meantime, doing that while all kinds of shit, from koreas to piracy in high seas to afghanistan and iraq was way too heated to not be reported, but, conveniently not reported, because the fucking 'lets put an american friendly puppet' play was in session in zimbwabwe ?
yeah. THAT case. that zimbabwe. and on the other hand, uniformed, ignorant gullible fools like you. too easy to manipulate.
Read radical news here
In Afghanistan. Please go there.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I can point to some good stuff that has occurred as a result of wars. So let's keep having them.
I can only hope that the right people in government see this and continue to help improve transparency in as many areas of government as possible. Added government transparency can only bring improvement.
On the other hand I don't advocate 100% transparency. To me it's the same reason why women don't reveal to everyone they're pregnant the instant they find out. Instead, once they decide they're going to have the baby and they have a good idea it's going to work out, then they let others know. I feel like government should have the same levels of privacy, but not much beyond that.
I gotta have more cowbell.
And such incidents are certainly despicable. But the powers that are probably do not think that this is a good idea. Does the US government want discussions about whether "private armies" are a good idea? Do they want Pfizer outed as a company that pressures third world countries into complying? Or that they bullied Spain into passing insane copyright laws?
Sadly, the interests of the people and their governments are not the same. Which makes me wonder, wasn't there something about "by the people for the people"? If a government does not serve its alleged masters, as a democracy (or republic, for you nitpickers) claims to do, what good is it then?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Somebody actually reading the leaks before forming an opinion about them? Blasphemy!
What's next, a slashdotter reading an article before posting? A Christian reading the bible...?
No sig today...
The law wasn't approved in Spain because the opposing parties didn't support it, true, but that had little to do with wikileaks.
Most Spanish politicians simply ignore the whole wikileaks deal; they don't mention it, publicly, at all. I think many of them don't even understand what wikileaks is (besides the most obvious effects of exposing some of their dirty clothes to the public)
The lack of support happened because the opposing parties didn't get the benefits they wanted in other negotiations. It was a reprisal to the governing party, which proposed the law. It would have happened just the same without wikileaks.
It was one of those occasions in which the egoistical interests of a few benefited the many. Which is funny and sad at the same time.
David Brin wrote a book called the "transparent civilization"... If Obama read it maybe he could make Wikileaks irrelevant.
Is why Peter King, who has used his position as a NY Congressman to aid the IRA, has not been denounced for his rank hypocrisy in calling for Assange to be prosecuted.
If Assange can be extradited to the US, I say we should arrest King and offer him up for prosecution by an all-Protestant jury in Northern Ireland...
Should be a Murphy law regarding Wikileaks... no matter how bad the leaks looks so far, there will be always something worse about to be disclosed. And that without even touching banks, that was supposed to be the next target.
With a bit of luck the illusion of "but we are the good ones" will become more evident with this.
Just treat people with respect, you fucking douchebag.
Well, that fills my irony quota for the week.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
"and can play an important role in a democracy that chooses its leaders." ...as opposed to a democracy which chooses out of a 2-party system the lesser of two evils.
Ooooh and in return, they should hack the government website and put in a "I eat baby foetusus for breakfast" image!
Hooray!
mugabe would be acting like mugabe no matter what. that he uses wikileaks as an excuse to abuse the opposition is just that: a convenient excuse
it's as if you believe mugabe would be a nice decent fellow if wikileaks never came along. do you believe that?
if no, don't blame wikileaks for what assholes do. blame the assholes!
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
A boy (8-15-ish) who dances erotically for a group of men, and is then used as a prostitute.
There was a good documentary on Channel 4 (UK) about it, and there's a decent article here.
Oh... oops, I misread the GP's question as What ... is a dancing boy.
There are ways in democratic countries to change the law so that your goals are met. Meeting your goals by breaking the law is imposing your rule on the people. That makes you the dictator.
Bashing religion is a noble /. past time, just as long as it is poking fun of Christians (I'm not one). The point the guy was making is that while it is easy and harmless to bash Christians (or even Jews), it isn't nearly as harmless to bash Islam and Muslims.
Just ask Theo Van Gogh about it
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
So last time you checked you woke up on the first Tuesday in November and voted?
Because last time I checked the people who end up running on that day had gone through years if not decades of vetting and promotion by the public (and corporate interests and political parties) to get to that point.
They have only released cables that show specific wrongs since publishing started. You might have noticed the accompanying editorial for each release in the Guardian, Der Spiegel, El Pais, etc.
I sure hope they're talking about a random soldier rank pv2 E1 whom happens to be named "Obama" not the much more famous guy at the tippy top peak of the military chain of command of the worlds largest most powerful military. You'd think the C-in-C might have enough power to take care of this without begging other countries for help?
I'm not trying to debate right or wrong here, trying to focus on an utter lack of efficiency and competence. We're not talking about rewriting the worlds biggest most corrupt banking system or the worlds biggest most corrupt medical-industrial complex. Just a tiny freaking prison in the middle of nowhere.
An article by the NY Times analyzed cables released which indicated the US is having difficulties in fulfilling Obama's promise to close the Guantánamo Bay detention camp and is now considering incentives in return for other countries accepting detainees, including a one-on-one meeting with Obama or assistance with the IMF. '
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
I thought the USA was the world's shining hope, and what other countries should aspire to become.
You must be an American, then.
Every harsh word you utter has the right address. It only sounds harsh because the one on the envelope is the wrong one.
+1 agree
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
Here in Denmark, the newspaper Politiken recently got access to all the documents. They found that which the (right-wing) government had publicly said that they would firm ask the US whether the US used Danish airspace for extraordinary rendition, the government privately told the US that they did not really want any answers.
A good example of how WikiLeaks can expose governments acting against their citizens interest. It might not be in the US's interest to expose this, but it is certainly in my interest as a citizen.
One persons scandal is another persons boring drivel.
A dull little cable about a diplomat having a meeting about banking regulations can be a non story for most people while for a few it can unveil how a politician ignored advice that may have averted a crisis.
It also wouldn't be harmless to pick a fight with a bear, but I don't see that as evidence that someone should pick a fight with a bear, or that people shouldn't just treat bears with respect.
Bears don't believe drawing a picture of them is picking a fight.
I wouldn't call it bravery in Assange's case. It appears he's ego driven, and expects the world to worship his name on high with the FSM for having done what he has.
I'm kind of middle ground on it all... I'm happy he's exposed some corruption, but unhappy he leaked it all without investigation.... pretty irresponsible.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
The most serious of torture cases involve placing prisoners in the hands of other nations where the most radical tortures and deaths are applied with great frequency. We urgently need laws that forbid our government from transferring prisoners to other nations.
For those that think it doesn't matter we already allow corporations to run prisons in the US and it isn't much of a reach to think that they might export a burgler from Brooklyn to Egypt for fun and games knowing that that convict will surely perish in custody.
years if not decades of vetting
Like Para-sailin' ?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You mean how he stayed in sweeden until they said he could leave?
or do you mean how he then turned himself in to the police in the UK when the Swedish government changed it's mind?
He's one of those rare people who are actually quite justified to assume conspiracy against him given how many of the post powerful people in the world he and his organisation has pissed off.
He could have hidden perfectly fine if he'd wanted to, there was at least one country(Ecuador) which offered him asylum with no strings attached.
Do some fucking research next time rather than parroting fox news as if they're a real news source.
Yeah I remember when the BBC covered that story for the program. I thought to myself; so Afghanistan is a Muslim based country. Muslims discourage homosexual activities and yet they have dancin' boys. Those dancin' boys are then 'rented' for a night of something behind the camels tent. Then it dawned on me...hypocrites. They kill you for committing sexual acts, but with dancin' boy it is okay.
"The laws of science be a harsh mistress." --Bender
From their site: DYNCORP INTERNATIONAL CORE VALUES We Serve – willingly in all locations and conditions. We Care – for the safety, security, development, and well-being of our employees. We Empower – our employees to succeed in a culture based on trust, respect, loyalty, and commitment. We Perform – with a relentless commitment to exceeding expectations. We Do the Right Thing – always, for our customers, employees, and those we serve. They left out the part about underage cross-dressing sex slaves...
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
if we just abuse our rights like this no wonder we get crazy politicians trying to remove them
I read this in the voice of a woman with a black eye saying something like "It was a door.... clumsy me.....really I should have had his meal ready when he got home.... "
Are you saying that you support denying a bear's right to be armed?
Living With a Nerd
Hid? He gave his (temporary) address to the UK police. He wasn't hideing. He was just making the Swedish prosecutors go through every piece of paperwork he could, thus ensuring maximum embarassment for them. Last I heard he still is, dragging things out in court as long as possible.
He hid, by turning himself in to Scotland Yard?
Oh, he fought extradition. As was his right. Not the same as hiding, not at all.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Sorry. you've still utterly failed to do your research.
December 6: a European arrest warrant is issued.
December 7: He hands himself in to the UK police.
Wow!
he was in "hiding" for so long.
Wow!
please, please educate yourself before continuing to make a fool of yourself.
It's soured the relationship between SA and Iran. I consider that a good thing.
are you saying that if a foreign country wanted to extradite you, you'd just hop on the next plane, and NOT hire lawyers to fight the extradition?
I suppose if charged with a crime, you'd forgo the "defense" part and and just say "whatever you feel is due, Mr. District Attorney, I'll plead guilty to it and let you have your way with me."
He's using the legal system the way it is intended to be used, you fucking moron.
This space available.
One man's insult is another man's transparency. There are already documents on Wikileaks from Scientology and the church of latter day saints, adherents to those religions would certainly call the hosting of their private docs "insulting". Hosting an existing pic of Mohamed, wouldn't be much different.
Creating a new one, just for shock value and insult ? That would cross the line to being an asshole.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Sir, why don't you take a seat right over there...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I would take neither at any time.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Bears don't believe drawing a picture of them is picking a fight.
Which only proves that Muslims aren't bears. No more, no less.
Hey, we all have our hot buttons. I even know a rather famous tribe somewhere on this globe that has members that consider it a provocation when people burn a piece of cloth. But only if the cloth is painted in a particular pattern with red stripes and a blue decorated rectangle. Most other patterns are fine. Just as with the Muslims, only a few hotheads in this tribe get really angry, but it's still a remarkable phenomena.
As always, there are other people of this tribe that consider that anger silly and stupid, but hey, there are always some hotheads. It also doesn't help when someone stokes the fires by describing the so-called provocation in the most exaggerated possible terms. Despicable, I know, but I'm afraid these people exist, both in Muslim countries and with that famous tribe.
Citation necessary. If he was hiding from the Swedish police he was doing a piss poor job of it. They were always able to contact his attorney, the hiding had more to do with the concern for his safety in light of all the vigilante advocates out there.
And of course he fought the extradition, while he had previously volunteered, volunteering previously does not negate his right to challenge the extradition and to demand that it be done in accordance with the law. Once the British legal system makes a determination, I'm sure he'll abide by it. At least he has up until now, he did surrender to officials in the UK when ordered to.
He waited until Sweden gave the OK for him to leave their country, and there were no charges against him when he left the country.
He knew this wasn't over, so when he got to the UK, he gave the police his information, so there would be no manhunt if charges were refiled.
Oh yeah, he also turned himself in. Because the best place to run and hide is Scotland Yard.
Whoever modded the parent insightful needs their mod points taken away.
BTW, Assange may be a douche for playin' the game with some of his volunteers...but chances are that your favorite musicians played many more games with their groupies.
:(){
People seem to misspell this all the time:
Cajones: drawers, of the sort that slide in and out, or a Latin American musical instrument comprised of a wooden box you beat like a drum
Cojones: male gonads
Yeah, and ask Mathew Shepard about Christian tolerance. It's easy to find the exception that proves the rule, but the reality is that Christians are hardly better than Muslims in that respect. They just have better PR.
Beyond that, there's little if any relevance in this to Wikileaks. We already know that there's a small minority of Muslims that will kill over criticism of their religious beliefs.
it was granted contingent on my returning when requested,
That's fine and dandy for you, but that's not what happened here. There were no contingencies.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Your point?
where in that is there anything about him being in hiding?
he gave his address to the UK police before he handed himself in.
He has a right to fight extradition through the legal system like anyone else.
In your world does any attempt to defend yourself legally in court constitute being "in hiding" or something?
I see. He didn't voluntarily submit to the whims of a foriegn government who he (correctly or incorrectly) felt to be motivated by the hostile 3rd government who was calling him a traitor and treasonous for doing the same thing the NY Times legally does... ... and instead consulted a lawyer as to how to fight what he felt were politically motivated charges against him.
What an evil bastard he must be. Clearly mounting a vigorous defense and exploring all your legal avenues is the mark of a guilty individual.
Let me tell you something - if Canada wanted to extradite me for questioning about possible (and not even inevitable) charges, I'd fight extradition even if I DIDN'T think the charges were being pushed by the UK over political BS...
And I LIKE Canada.
When law enforcement from ANY country makes demands of you, you get a fucking lawyer and try to avoid it. Period.
The police are NOT your friends, ANYTHING you say can be used against you even if it would seem to exculpate you. There are some videos out there with the theme "never voluntarily talk to the police..."
The people giving that advice are lawyers and COPS themselves.
Cops ANYWHERE demand something of you, you get a lawyer and make them prove their right to do so. Period.
This space available.
Then why hasn't the US, or anyone, ever denied or even questioned the veracity of the leaks?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
WTF are you talking? Wikileaks is a whistle-blower site, not a site to post cartoons. Dude, when you have nothing good to say, it is better to say nothing. Anonymous is a different thing.
Don't forget the calls for his assassination.
And the video in question is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Religion makes world peace impossible. You can blame who you want, or say "but they started it!". Simple fact of the matter is that religion has caused more blood to be spilled in human history than any other cause.
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
Hey, we all have our hot buttons. I even know a rather famous tribe somewhere on this globe that has members that consider it a provocation when people burn a piece of cloth. But only if the cloth is painted in a particular pattern with red stripes and a blue decorated rectangle. Most other patterns are fine. Just as with the Muslims, only a few hotheads in this tribe get really angry, but it's still a remarkable phenomena.
Oh, how sly of you sneaking in flag burning. It isn't uncommon to see protests involving burning of flags. I think the hot-heads have gotten over it without bombing embassies and calling for assassinations. If not, toss them in the same jail as you put the Muslims who can't handle a cartoon and let the rest of us maintain our rights to burn flags and draw pictures.
Along those lines, I understand that in some countries there are laws that enforce cultural sensitivities. When in Rome and all that (been there, done that). Which doesn't mean Rome gets to set the tone for the world.
You raid a good point (as in: food for discussion). Abstrackt(609015) also raise a good one:
Who would you have doing this investigation ? Do you trust Assange to decide what can be released and what can't ? You obviously can't trust the government, since they decided that nothing should be released.
So we have the 3 options above. The 2 pointed by Abstrackt, and the one you offered: someone deciding what should and what shouldn't be released. Isn't that censorship ? Oh, I by no means think there are zero possible benefits from censorship. Any sane person would agree. But the price is too high, which is why we simply don't accept it.
So, where do we stand ? Nothing should have been released (including the DynCorp and Pfizer cases) ? Everything should have been released (as it was) ? Or should we have someone censoring it, deciding what could be made public ? If the last case, who ?
I think the ultimate question is, who do you trust completely ?
morcego
South Park did it. Several times in fact.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
While I think Islam is a vile practice too sick to be called a religion, especially with their treatment of women and children, to be fair from what I've read that particular "tradition" is only among the Pashtun tribes and the others look down upon them for their sick shit. But the Pashtuns have been very powerful in their territory and as in all things with power comes the ability to do whatever the hell you want and get away with it.
And frankly with all the reports of Blackwater (or whatever bullshit name they call themselves this week) trying to recreate "Full Metal Jacket" all over the middle east while we pay them big bucks to do so honestly we've lost so much of the moral high ground we don't really have much room to talk on the subject of evil shit. A parable about pointing out splinters while there is a log in your eye comes to mind. But blaming the Muslims for what the Pashtuns do would be like blaming Christianity for what those Mormon polygamists do. If you read the article one of the above posters linked to you'll see they went to the local Mullah who said flat footed it is child abuse and that it is happening because there simply isn't ANY law there.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Hosting a picture of Muhammad on Wikileaks doesn't make a lot of sense because it's not actually an example of withheld information. Wikipedia offers several depictions of Muhammad. If you can find a thing on wikipedia with ease, it doesn't really need leaking.
To answer your question much to everyone's dissatisfaction, I trust nobody completely... not even myself.
It would be impossible to decide who would decide. Anything left out would be anything ranging from "too much was released anyway" to "conspiracies abound, there's too much still hidden."
However, I do think most rational people could check documents for things that should absolutely not be released, such as personal addresses, names of intelligence operatives living abroad (for their safety), etc...
I DON'T think reviewers should hold back documents simply because they could be potentially embarrassing to any government or government employee, or because they tell the true story of WMDs or bargaining for detainment of GTMO detainees.
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
I thought the USA was the world's shining hope, and what other countries should aspire to become.
You must be an American, then.
Time to recalibrate your sarcasm detector.
See here.
Was this a good thing?
No.
There is no grey area here. Anything that helps Mugabe is bad for his people, bad for his country, bad for Africa.
Mr Assange's 15 minute cry for attention and fame have likely doomed the people of Zimbabwe to more kleptothugocracy until Mugabe passes. On what planet, in what universe, could this be construed as good? The opposition leadership is now facing the death penalty for what was found in Wikileaks.
Good job Wikileaks. Good job.
Schmucks.
-10 worst analogy ever.
How many people have been assassinated because they burned an American Flag? And I mean for that one specific act?
- See Theo Van Gogh
How many people have been forced to change their identity because of threats after burning an American Flag?
- See Molly Norris
How many people have been targeted for mass murder, just because one person in their country burned an American Flag?
- See 2010 Stockholm Bombing
Yes I get angry when I see people burn the American Flag. But I would NEVER commit any of the acts above because someone burned and American Flag.
Hey, we all have our hot buttons. I even know a rather famous tribe somewhere on this globe that has members that consider it a provocation when people burn a piece of cloth.
Horseshit.
Has a Catholic priest issued a death order for someone burning the American flag?
Has anyone been brutally gunned down in public for making a movie critical of America?
Yeah, it might piss people off, but they sure as shit don't get murdered.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Right back at ya. ;)
Every harsh word you utter has the right address. It only sounds harsh because the one on the envelope is the wrong one.
What makes paying a percentage any more fair than paying a flat amount of tax? I'm not saying I'm for it, just challenging your line of thought. When I go out to the movies with a couple friends, the cost of movie tickets isn't based on my income. I don't see one friend paying $10, me paying $12, and my rich friend paying $18 for the tickets because of our income levels and a percentage based entertainment tax.
I'd guess that most of us would tend to prefer that richer people pay a larger share of their income as taxes, at least until we get to be part of that "rich people" bracket.
This obvious persecution of Julian Assange is atrocious.
Not only are they trying to hit him with dition, but extra dition? That's overboard, man.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
The only brave person surrounding Wikileaks appears to Assnage...
To find other brave wikileaks activists, just look at the names on the subpeona: Jacob Appelbaum @ioerror -Tor spokesman who subbed in for Julian Assange at the HOPE conference, and a lot has been written about him elsewhere, including Rolling Stone. He's on the way back from Iceland to Seattle today, so hopefully he won't be detained again. There's a crowd of wikileaks supporters waiting for him. Rop Gonggrijp @rop_g - Hacker/activist who helped produce and release the Collateral Murder video. He no longer works for wikileaks since he's spending most of his time cracking voting machines in India/Brazil. Birgitta Jónsdóttir @birgittaj - The Icelandic Parliament Member with an impressive history of activism.
All of these people have done more for the spread of democracy and freedom of speech than most of us ever will. No wonder they are under investigation by the DOJ.
No, no -- he's not being charged with extra dition. You've got it all out of sorts.
He's being charged with not properly conforming to historical societal standards with respect to the termination of an intimate relation with a partner before initiating an intimate relation with a different partner.
To sum up, he broke the ex-tradition.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
You see, with 2 statements, you just proved how complicated the issue is.
You state you don't trust anyone, and that it is impossible to decide who would decide.
But you also mention reviewers, and say that "most rational people could check documents". You also propose rules "such as personal addresses etc". Someone would have to decide on those rules.
We just come back again all or nothing, since yes, there are possible rules that would be the best case, but there is no way to decide who would decide.
morcego
"The problem comes when Wikileaks/The Guardian gives Mugabe political ammo by releasing the fact that his opponent feels that the sanctions are needed while Mugabe is in power."
mugabe would still do what he wants to do, whether wikileaks gave him ammo or not
that's the point
if wikileaks never existed, mugabe would still be cracking down on the opposition, and he would be using some other lame excuse instead of wikileaks. do you understand that?
the problem is not me, the problem is people like you who actually believe the reasons mugabe gives for what he does are actually valid reasons! rather than lame excuses they obviously are. why do you believe mugabe? how naive are you?
if mugabe does something vile, mugabe is vile
what is not vile is the red herring lame excuse he makes
no one believes mugabe would be nice if wikileaks didn't exist, and i didn't think you thought so either. it's called making a rhetorical point, to say something so crazy that you can see the error in your own thinking
but apparently you can't do that. apparently, when mugabe gives you a stupid lame weak excuse for why he does something, you BELIEVE mugabe! why do you believe mugabe!? it makes you a moron if you believe anything that comes out of that asshole's mouth
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
to be fair from what I've read that particular "tradition" is only among the Pashtun tribes
Not really, it was a widespread practice in Ottoman Empire. Indeed, it was the Ottomans who spread it over the lands they controlled or influenced.
Ordinary dition won't work on douchebags like him. I'm surprised they're not throwing him in a tort and demanding habeas of his corpus.
> Alas, you won't find this viewpoint shared by Wikileaks or their supporters it seems.
Yet I am one of those supporters (and I posted the comment to which you replied) and I do hold more moderate views.
In response to the most common criticism, I do not think that WL just "dumped" the cables. They partnered with a variety of responsible news organizations, embargoed them, and gave them time to develop stories using the material. The vast majority still aren't public (feel free to show me where one can get all 250k if I'm wrong, I haven't bothered to look as I have little interest in those which are not newsworthy).
Which secrets do you think their partnering news organizations should not have leaked, exactly? I mean, sure, we can all make up our favorite hypothetical situations that support any viewpoint, so why not stick to real situations and things that have actually happened?
Mankind has a very long history of shady doings in all governments, particularly in the less transparent/accountable parts. Ironically, many of them exist to protect us from their counterparts in foreign governments! Would we all not be better off if nobody could get away with that sort of nonsense?
you're very stubborn in your position. but not very intelligent
i'll tell you what: when mugabe tells you why he does something, you go right on believing mugabe. i won't. how's that for a deal?
because until wikileaks existed, mugabe didn't do anything wrong. clearly, wikileaks is to blame for the most recent thing mugabe did wrong
(oh, and since you have problem with the concept, i don't literally think mugabe didn't do anything wrong until wikileaks. it's called a rhetorical argument. you'll get it someday kid. less blind stubbornness, more intelligence. good luck on your path towards thinking)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
you're very stubborn in your position. but not very intelligent
i'll tell you what: when mugabe tells you why he does something, you go right on believing mugabe. i won't. how's that for a deal?
You seem to be under the impression that Mugabe has told me something, ot that I've heard something he's said. But that had to have come somewhere out of your own mind. I honestly couldn't even paraphrase any statement he's ever made. I don't know what he's said. I've just read news articles and Wikipedia's article on him, dude.
and yet you trust him 100% when he says he did what he did because of wikileaks
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
and yet you trust him 100% when he says he did what he did because of wikileaks
WTF are you even talking about? Where are you getting this bizarre idea that I'm trusting him? Or that he says he did what he did because of Wikileaks?
He's not using Wikileaks as an excuse for his actions. He's using the leaked documents to go after his opponent. The one that is supported by the UK, Canada, Australia, France, the UK, as well as the US....
do you think someone like mugabe needs the excuse? if i get a glock and murder your family, and tell you i did it because your family was going to rob me, do you believe me? then why do you believe mugabe is doing what he is doing because of wikileaks? has mugabe cracked down on his opposition before wikileaks? of course. he uses any excuse he wants!
wikileaks is just his excuse now, and if wikileaks didn't exist, he'd invent some other bullshit reason to crack down. and yet, when he says his latest bullshit reason for why he is doing evil things, that mugabe always does, you believe his reason! why do you believe what mugabe says motivates him?!
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Okay, I probably shouldn't do this, but I'm too curious, so....
I think we'll both agree that there's a place in Africa called Zimbabwe. And that this place is currently ruled be one Robert Mugabe.
According to Wikipedia...
There are widespread reports of systematic and escalating violations of human rights in Zimbabwe under the Mugabe administration and his party, the ZANU-PF.
According to human rights organisations such as Amnesty International[69] and Human Rights Watch[70] the government of Zimbabwe violates the rights to shelter, food, freedom of movement and residence, freedom of assembly and the protection of the law. There have been alleged assaults on the media, the political opposition, civil society activists, and human rights defenders.
Opposition gatherings are frequently the subject of brutal attacks by the police force, such as the crackdown on a March 11, 2007 Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) rally and several others during the 2008 election campaign.[71] In the attacks of 2007, party leader Morgan Tsvangirai and 49 other opposition activists were arrested and severely beaten by the police. After his release, Morgan Tsvangirai told the BBC that he suffered head injuries and blows to the arms, knees and back, and that he lost a significant amount of blood.
So now it comes to pass that Morgan Tsvangirai is opposing Robert Mubabi in an election.
Then there's a leak of US cables via Wikileaks.
Finish the story from your own perspective.
While I think Islam is a vile practice too sick to be called a religion
Nothing is too vile to be called a religion.
Not that I'm defending the practice but it used to be that such people regularly rose to high office, for example the architect of the blue mosque (arguably one of the most awe inspiring buildings ever constructed) started his career as a "dancing boy".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Yeah, and ask Mathew Shepard [wikipedia.org] about Christian tolerance. It's easy to find the exception that proves the rule, but the reality is that Christians are hardly better than Muslims in that respect. They just have better PR.
How about if I ask you since he is dead? Could you provide some actual evidence that Christianity played role in his murder, or are you simply engaging in casual libel as a result of unenlightened views or ignorance? From what I see, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of Christian practice or belief involved, quite the contrary. A gay man who took drugs was killed by two drug users/dealers, one of whom was apparently a bisexual. I realize that make the narrative a bit messy, but please, enlighten us.
If they were doing meth, they were probably doing pot too.
Long-Time Marijuana Use Linked to Psychosis in Young Adults
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The U.S. can deal with him when he gets out of jail.
Sorry if I'm not up to speed, but what does the U.S. have to do with anything?
404: sig not found.
Being a fuckwit is a crime where I come from. Hop on a plane and come stand trial.
404: sig not found.
Obviously you don't seem to have read the news lately... Or know your history very well...
And attempting to defend yourself legally in court constitutes hiding when it's a court in a totally different country from the one that's charging you with a crime.
Ah, good, we cleared that up finally, you're just insane.
that makes your arguments a lot easier to follow.
Like anyone else he has a right to defend himself in court and fight extradition.
That does not constitute "hiding" under any reasonable definition of the word.
If 'private security contractors' are working for anyone other than the US terror forces, the US media calls them 'mercenaries'.
Wow, either you have really massive problems understanding statements in context(hint "hostile 3rd government") or you really haven't been following the news.
He ran because he knew the Swedish police were eventually going to have him for rape, and all the evidence says it's a righteous cop.
Right..... you mean after the swedish courts said he was free to leave the country?
In other news blair1q's fantasy world people who the police release without charge are now considered escaped convicts and any such people who who tell the police their address in case they want to contact them will now be considered to have been discovered in a devious and effecient sting opperation.
Also the whole silly "due process", rights to legal representation and "fair trials" will now be replaced with blair1q deciding based on what he half heard on the radio and what he read on some blog.
remember this song ?
We come in peace,
[ shoot to kill Shoot to kill, shoot to kill ]
We come in peace,
[ shoot to kill. Scotty beam me up ]
What wikileaks shows us is between the brackets
This isn't about poking fun at him for being a hypocrite. King is one of, it not the most active Republican out there right now trying to get Assange taken out.
The fact that King is so pro-IRA and has helped them puts him in a far worse position. Huckabee, Palin, etc. can at least say with a straight face that they've never helped a terrorist group.
so if wikileaks didn't exist, mugabe would be a sweetheart?
that's what you are telling me
this is of course absurd
if wikileaks did not exist, mugabe would be doing the exactly the same thing today, using some other lame ass excuse for mugabe being a dick
again, i ask you: WHY DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT THE DICK SAYS?
the dick acts like a dick because he is a DICK. he uses ANY EXCUSE HE WANTS. the problem is when certain morons like you BELIEVE WHAT THE DICK SAYS ARE HIS REASONS when for anyone with a half a brain, it is clear the dick needs no reasons and is just making cheap excuses
WHY DO YOU BELIEVE MUGABE WHEN HE GIVES LAME EXCUSES FOR WHAT MUGABE WILL DO NO MATTER WHAT???
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
What if a country proposes to take a couple of guantanamo prisoners in exchange of the abolishement of all the software and "idea" patents?
Atari rules... ermm... ruled.
I don't think I got my point across very well then. In my previous post, I pointed out there are some basic items that any rational person could likely see would be irresponsible to make public. In this case, that would have been Assange had he bothered to read them before posting.
I suppose Manning could have done the same. However, both simply did what they did without regard for items that could have been redacted while still making the stories known.
As far as whom I trust to withhold other information that doesn't fit into the category of basic items that are obvious for redaction, I still stand behind "nobody." That's because everyone's opinion would be different, some folks would be inclined to hide items that directly affected them or their friends, some because they tote a particular party line, etc...
Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
A Conspiracy of Fact, does not need to have one hand knowing what the other is doing, or even a central control. Mob Rules.
I can program myself out of a Hello World Contest!!
Koceks / baccha are homosexual child prostitution, not child marriage. Feel the difference.
But, yes, this doesn't have anything to do with Islam, really. Just a local cultural thing that spread around. Arabs never had that, for example. And, of course, traditional Islam very much frowns on both extramarital sex and homosexuality.
It's always puzzled me why people get upset about burning American flags. I've always been taught that it is the only proper way to dispose of a damaged flag.
But he didn't publish all of it. He had several editors of newspapers advising him -- editors that are experienced in distinguishing important news from harmful personal details. Naturally, governments that don't want their skullduggery exposed are claiming that the big leak was indiscriminate, but it wasn't.
Save the anti-abortion violence, what do any of those have to do with Christianity?
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)