Slashdot Mirror


Dual-Core Chips Coming To All Smartphones In 2011

An anonymous reader writes "All top of the range smartphones will be sporting dual-core chips this year. So is it time to ditch your current pocket rocket? Not necessarily — dual-core will give a bit of a boost to multitasking and media streaming but probably won't persuade iPhone owners to switch to Android, says the writer."

35 of 244 comments (clear)

  1. iPhone by imamac · · Score: 2, Insightful

    probably won't persuade iPhone owners to switch to Android

    And who is to say that the iPhone 5 won't be dual core?

    1. Re:iPhone by jgagnon · · Score: 2

      It would be truly hilarious if Steve Jobs used the handle "nibbles".

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    2. Re:iPhone by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Funny

      And who is to say that the iPhone 5 won't be dual core?

      Unlikely, really.

      First, a good reason to NOT be dual core is battery life - slower is better. iPhone hardware has always lagged the Android models - the original iPhone and iPhone 3G had 412MHz CPUs, while the G1 (same year) had a 524MHz CPU - nearly 25% faster. The iPhone 3GS sported a 624MHz CPU or so (50% faster than iPhone/iPhone 3G), at a time when the Android hotness was 1GHz CPUs (50% faster than iPhone 3GS). The iPhone 4 is supposed to have around an 800MHz CPU, and current gen Androids have 1.2GHz CPUs.

      The only thing to come close would be the iPad with its 1GHz processor.

      The iPad's also the most likely one to sport a dual core processor - it has the massive battery packs (it's what, 90% battery?) to have decent battery life with dual cores.

      If Androids of 2011 get dual core, it'll probably be 2012 at the earliest before Apple releases a dual core A5 chip or something for the iPhone, with the A5 debuting on the second gen iPad first at the absolute earliest. Or maybe it'll be 3rd gen iPad at that point.

      Remember, these are mobile devices, and even though I charge mine at the end of the day before I go to sleep, I'd still like to be able to get through the day without lugging extended battery packs.

    3. Re:iPhone by AvitarX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering my phone screen is 65%-85% of the battery, I am not too worried about a dual core.

      Also, I imagine with the ability to kill off cores when not needed a slower dual-core could use less than a single core, and run better.

      The iPad has massive battery because of the screen, which I bet is over 90% of the power used. Especially in one that is being used as a browser tablet without 3G (less going on when not being used).

      My current (4 hours since unplugged, not too much usage today vs a normal morning) has 65% display, 10% cell standby, 8% phone idle as the top 3. Not having the phone function would save 10% of my battery, but still the screen is the real killer. And on a typical day I use the screen a lot more in the morning.

      This is Tmobile G2 for reference.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    4. Re:iPhone by todorb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      two cores on lower clock rate may consume less energy than one core with fast clocking. energy use is proportional to the square of the clock rate, so it's a matter of tuning to achieve lower power. the only question is whether the slow cores will be fast enough for the important sequential tasks (if there are such at all).

    5. Re:iPhone by dagamer34 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Umm... the Android G1 had a 524Mhz Qualcomm processor and that was 2008. The first Android phone to come out with a 1Ghz Snapdragon was the Nexus One, and that wasn't until January 2010. And as far as current-gen Android phones having a 1.2Ghz processor, none of those have been released yet. All Android phones released in 2010 were capped at 1Ghz with chips from either Qualcomm or Samsung. The Samsung Infuse 4G is the first phone I'm aware of that at stock is greater than 1Ghz (it is 1.2Ghz).

      As for battery life, I'd like to direct you to this white paper: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/tegra_white_papers/Benefits-of-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf

      Sure it's written by nVidia, but I doubt they are allowed to flat out lie, as that's some pretty bad PR. And it's the whole theory behind having dual cores in laptops anyway. 2 cores running at a lower clock speed is more power efficient than running one core at a higher clock speed.

    6. Re:iPhone by dc29A · · Score: 3, Informative

      iOS only supports true multitasking for a limited number of applications (phone, music player, voip, etc ...) , for everything else is it's not multitasking but swapping out programs left and right.

    7. Re:iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh god... you can't be suggesting that they're going to FRAGMENT the number of cores? IPhone users will hate that.

    8. Re:iPhone by icebraining · · Score: 2

      Which doesn't mean a single app can't use the two cores - iOS 4 comes with Grand Central Dispatch support. Could be useful for games.

    9. Re:iPhone by sznupi · · Score: 2

      ARM and Nokia also stated, during the last year or so, that multicore is likely to help with battery life.

      ARM is of course as (or more) "suspect" as claims by Nvidia. Not Nokia though; and many of their phones show some care when it comes to battery life.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    10. Re:iPhone by pz · · Score: 2

      Yes. There's a nice answer to essentially the same question that someone (not me) wrote about 6 months ago here:

      http://superuser.com/questions/163567/why-does-the-heat-production-increase-as-the-clockrate-of-a-cpu-increases/163570#163570

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    11. Re:iPhone by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ESPECIALLY now that iOS supports multitasking

      iOS has always supported multitasking. Run top on an old iPhone and you'll see lots of system daemons running in the background. It did not support more than one GUI application running at once, but this was due to memory constraints, not due to lack of CPU power. GUI apps tend to eat a load of RAM and the iPhone does not support swapping (well, actually, the kernel does, but you need to jailbreak it, install a terminal, and then turn it on). If you run more than one app, the others have to be aware of the increased memory constraints. This is less of a problem on the newer models, with more RAM, and will be irrelevant in a year or two when they all come with 2GB or so.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:iPhone by mjwx · · Score: 2

      iOS has always supported multitasking.

      The issue is that you, the user or developer were never and still are not permitted to use it.

      Basically it's like a car that can drive brilliantly at 150 KM/h but it's has a speed governor limiting it's speed to 20 KM/h because the builder doesn't think you will ever need to go faster than 20 KM/h. Yes I could remove the speed governor and "jailbreak" my engine but why should the I have to.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  2. Dual core smartphones by jgagnon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I made a comment about dual/quad core phones a while back and was laughed at. It will happen folks and sooner than you suspect. Phones are quickly becoming our primary computing device, or at least the centerpiece of our electronic lives.

    It's not about playing Doom on a smart phone, it's about the phone being able to do everything we ask it to do without having to wait too long.

    --
    Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    1. Re:Dual core smartphones by jeffmeden · · Score: 3, Funny

      You saw the headline... Dual core chips coming to ALL smartphones in 2011. That old blackberry I have from 2008 that's gathering dust? Yep, it will be dual core in 2011! Oh the cores!

    2. Re:Dual core smartphones by ciderbrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have an htc desire. It fast enough. What I need is a 3G connection on the train to and from work. That is the slow part.

    3. Re:Dual core smartphones by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Key was Motorola's docking demonstrations at CES. Give it two years and everyone will be able to do it. Then you can park at for example a net cafe with a public monitor and plug in your phone and do some work, and a few games, then you keep your computing device (mostly) safely with you.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    4. Re:Dual core smartphones by awyeah · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Phones are quickly becoming our primary computing device, or at least the centerpiece of our electronic lives.

      Have you seen the Motorola Atrix (I think they showed it at CES)?

      This thing has a laptop dock. That's not a dock that you can connect to your laptop, it's an actual laptop, made for the phone - the phone docks in the back and is the computer. It basically is a big keyboard and screen for the phone.

      I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, but it certainly is interesting. Who knows if the rest of the industry will follow suit.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    5. Re:Dual core smartphones by jgagnon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's exactly the way I see things headed. We will all be carrying around our "computer" and storage with us, and public places will simply augment it with larger screens and keyboard (as Motorola suggests) or in many other ways. In this way we buy the applications we use for our personal computing devices (PCD) and then have access to them everywhere we go. No more of this crap of buying software four times over for four machines at home.

      Imagine walking into the living room and your PCD magically becomes the remote for your TV, VCR, DVR, or whatever. Then you walk into the kitchen and you can control the microwave, stove, and other devices with it. Walk out of the house and your phone allows you to remotely set the alarm and lock the doors. It becomes the key to your car once you are in it or allows you to remote start it. You walk near a printer at work with it and print the document you grabbed from home. The possibilities are endless.

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    6. Re:Dual core smartphones by andynugent · · Score: 2

      Symbian^3 phones (sort of) already have this, in that you can connect USB/Bluetooth mice/keyboard and attach it to a monitor using the HDMI port. Nokia just haven't packaged it together in a all in one, single connection product like this laptop dock. But the fact that so many phones are getting HDMI out sort of suggests that the manufacturers see them as being portable computers that you plug the extra dumb peripherals into.

    7. Re:Dual core smartphones by imgod2u · · Score: 2

      I believe the reason it's called the A15 is that it's a new tier. That is, it won't replace the current A9 (or future revisions, A10 for instance) that is targeted at smartphone-level performance and power.

      The numbers released for the A15 do not fit into a smartphone's power envelope. DMIPS/Watt is significantly lower than that of the A9 and it's going to target leaky, high-speed processes first.

      Eagle (A15) is ARM's push towards netbooks, tablets and notebooks (and possibly servers). Sure, some people may try to fit it into a smartphone chip (I'm looking at you, nVidia) but the thing's a beast both area and power wise. The damn thing takes 12 stages just to fetch and dispatch an instruction with another 3-12 to execute and write-back. That's a 24-stage pipeline.

      For reference, the A9's integer pipeline is 8-stages. The first Pentium 4's had a 20-stage integer pipeline.

  3. Re:iPhone already has dual core! by Pojut · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A4

    Uh...no? Maybe you're confusing its SOC nature by combining a GPU and CPU, but it is most definitely not a dual-core CPU.

  4. Re:iPhone already has dual core! by Cornelius+the+Great · · Score: 2

    A4 is not dual core- it's an ARM Cortex A8 core with a PowerVR SGX 535 GPU. It's nearly identical to the Samsung Hummingbird CPUs used in the Galaxy S phones.

    The 5th gen iPhone is rumored to have dual core, but it won't be out until at least this summer.

    --
    Sigs are for losers
  5. Can't see why "dual core" would be a selling point by samael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Runs smoothly" would be a selling point. "Amazing graphics" would be a selling point. "Long battery life" would be a selling point. But the number of bits of silicon inside the phone really isn't going to attract many consumers.

  6. Re:Can't see why "dual core" would be a selling po by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For the same reason that 2GHz is better than 1.4GHz. The number is bigger, so the PHBs and yuppies will clamour for them. Meanwhile, those of us with an eye for detail will look at things like battery capacity, sound quality, compatibility with existing architectures and applications, and make informed decisions, instead of pawing at the latest shiny-shiny like a kitten with a toy.

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  7. Re:Is is all or not? by jgagnon · · Score: 2

    I'm sure old ones won't magically spawn a second core... :p

    --
    Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
  8. Re:Can't see why "dual core" would be a selling po by Cornelius+the+Great · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why not? Multi-core was marketed successfully for PCs, what makes smartphones any different? Tech specs are pretty important to the Android crowd. Besides, now that certain devices will have docks that allow them become netbook and HTPC replacements, people will find uses for that extra core.

    --
    Sigs are for losers
  9. Nothing will persuade iPhone users to switch by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

    to Android. Have any of you ever talked to an iPhone user about the possibility that another phone might even exist, let alone be a better choice than the iPhone?

    1. Re:Nothing will persuade iPhone users to switch by nprz · · Score: 2

      ...Your phone could make coffee...

      This reminds me of the Pomegranate phone.

  10. Cores don't matter at the moment by hallucinogen · · Score: 2

    The number of cores or their speed doesn't matter at the moment. For example look at Nokia. Their phones tend to have much slower CPUs, but because of better software they run just as fast as the latest & greatest from Samsung etc. I think number of cores and speed will only become a selling point once smartphones become our only computers that we just dock to our keyboard/display terminals at home.

  11. Re:dual? by gmuslera · · Score: 2

    Most top smartphones right now are multitaskers, already perform more than 2 things at once even with single core processors. Having multiple cores means doing it somewhat better as you split the tasks over separate processors.

    Would had been nice if the N900 had multiple cores, is just too easy to run a lot of things at once, at least, if that don't kill the battery.

  12. dual battery by digitaldc · · Score: 3, Funny

    Dual core with a dual battery would be nice

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  13. Re:Will dual-core do anything useful? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    Battery life, however, would seem to suffer with dual core.

    My desktop system has a three-core processor that uses less power than many single core processors which do less work than one of its cores, all of which (AFAIK) are older than it is. These are new processors. Why do you imagine they will necessarily consume more power?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  14. Re:Can't see why "dual core" would be a selling po by Cornelius+the+Great · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) The same argument was made before dual core made it to consumer PCs. If you build it, they will come.

    In any case, waiting on either PC or phone is usually due to some IO task, not heavy CPU usage. By far, the most waiting I'm going to be doing is when web pages are being loaded.

    Media playback and games are primarily where users will see the most benefit from dual-core in the foreseeable future. Having a heavy webpage with Flash running smoothly doesn't hurt either. :)

    2) Today, chips have very good power-gating. If only one core is being used, only one core is being powered. Also, the power usage increase is logarithmic. For this reason, having a second core doesn't double the TDP of the entire chip.

    Also, most of these dual-core chips add a fraction of die space in return for an extra core. The SOCs already only dedicate a minority of space to the ARM core- the rest is taken up by the GPU, Memory, radio, and other misc controllers.

    And due to die shrinkages with every generation, many dual-core chips will be drawing less power than their single-core counterparts. Case in point: the 3rd generation Snapdragon with dual-Scorpion cores is claimed (at least by Qualcomm) to use less power than the Snapdragons in current smartphones. Going from 65nm to 45nm (28nm expected by end of 2011!) provides that kind of headroom.

    Besides, the biggest user of battery space is usually the screen, then radio (wifi, 3G/4G, bluetooth, etc), then the CPU at a distant third.

    Double core- Double battery usage? Right, whatever.

    --
    Sigs are for losers
  15. All Android what? by Tintivilus · · Score: 2

    All Android phones released in 2010 were capped at 1Ghz with chips from either Qualcomm or Samsung. The Samsung Infuse 4G is the first phone I'm aware of that at stock is greater than 1Ghz (it is 1.2Ghz).

    Almost all the Motorola Android phones, and all the high-end ones currently shipping, use TI OMAP processors.

    First, Droid (Milestone) in 2009 used a TI OMAP 3430

    Later, Droid X in 2010 used a TI OMAP 3630 at 1Ghz

    Finally, Droid 2 Global Launched on Nov 9 2001 with a 1.2 GHz TI OMAP processor