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Russian Simulated Mars Mission Close To 'Landing'
Dthief writes with this quote from an Associated Press report:
"After 233 days in a locked steel capsule, six researchers on a 520-day mock flight to Mars are all feeling strong and ready to 'land' on the Red Planet, the mission director said Friday. The all-male crew of three Russians, a Chinese, a Frenchman and an Italian-Colombian has been inside windowless capsules at a Moscow research center since June. Their mission aims to help real space crews in the future cope with the confinement and stress of interplanetary travel. The researchers communicate with the outside world via emails and video messages — occasionally delayed to give them the feel of being farther than a few yards away from mission control. The crew members eat canned food similar to that eaten on the International Space Station and shower only once a week. None of the men has considered abandoning the mission, although they are free to walk out at any time, mission director and former cosmonaut Boris Morukov told reporters on Friday."
Why does the line "three Russians, a Chinese, a Frenchman and an Italian-Colombian" sound like a bad and racist "walk in a bar" joke?
I call bullshit on this one.
The best thing about being a member of the "crew" is that it's probably the only place in Moscow you can drink the tap water. Water? Food? Weekly showers? Luxury!
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I think knowing you can walk out at any time makes the reality of this experiment far less stressful on those inside the test capsule than if they were actually traveling through space and had no opportunity to leave.
Less politics on Mars. Sign me up!
If they wanted more realism (and since it's Russia), they should have told the crew that death in space would be "simulated" if any tried to leave.
But we will shoot you...
Locked Capsule:Mars Mission::Masturbation:Sex
What could possibly go wrong?????
Are they assuming a real trip to Mars will include artificial gravity the whole way? Sitting in a can for nearly a year is tough (made tougher by the one-shower-per-week Frenchman sitting next to you), but doing the same without the benefit of gravity would be a whole other ballgame.
Did they at least simulate the unblinking red eye and monotone voice of their mission computer?
I need trepanation like I need a hole in the head.
Make me rather ashamed. The cold war is over Johnny, try to cheer up!
From what I've read, they're looking at monitoring mental and physical health of a crew simulating a mission to Mars. The fundamental psychology is different, as pointed out by others, as they can leave at any time. Confinement and isolation are not properly simulated at the fundamental level. The physical side of the test is also not simulated properly, as they are under the influence of Earth's gravity and this has effects on the health of the crew.
Perhaps a first step. A better test would be one at the ISS.
"although they are free to walk out at any time." This is key. As stressful as the simulation may be, in the back of their heads will always be that safeguard -- as it should; I'm not implying they ought to be forced to remain against their will. Quite different from the actual experience of being locked with other people inside a capsule in space.
Yeah, it's a trip to Mars - minus the lack of gravity, minus the cosmic radiation, minus the occasional pebble whizzing by at thousands of miles per hour, minus the constant knowledge that a few millimeters of metal alloy separates you from pretty much instant death at all times.
It's the take home test of space travel.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
If they are free to walk out at any time, why is the capsule locked? (No, seriously.) The other thing that jumps out at me is the duration of the trips but the relatively short amount of time (two days) spent on 'Mars'. Surely a mission to Mars would include more time on the planet? The time spent on the planet would be more intellectually stimulating than the spaceflight (one presumes) and might offer relief/reward from the journey to Mars and better prepare the crew psychologically for the return mission. I wonder why that wasn't factored in. The difficulty of simulating the on-planet experience perhaps?
Bonus question: Would an actual mission to Mars pay astronauts more than $70,000 per year?
Everybody's bitching because this isn't an exactly perfect simulation (gravity, you-can-leave-at-any-time, etc) but give them some credit: at least they're doing something. If you're a fellow American, you have no grounds for complaining.
We've had that experiment a while ago. A bunch of unemployed freaks locked together into a can for a year, televised daily.
They called it Big Brother.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm partially joking, partially serious. Were they celibate the whole time? Maybe it would be more prudent to send flamers or if not that, artificially suppress their sex drives.
Do they use simulated subspace communication the other times?
Are there other parts of the "simulation" that are modified for convenience? Can they have pizza delivered?
Seems to me that if they were as serious as they say, they would have built themselves an airtight chamber about ten times the volume of the "vehicle" surrounding the whole test site and dropped it down to 0.01 atm of pressure.
It wouldn't be as serious as truly being in space but it would mean that these guys would spend three years knowing that instant death really DID lurk right on the other side of the wall.
You know, just like in a real mission.
We've had at least one worker die in a vacuum accident at NASA. So we know that a few dozen feet to safety can be quite enough to kill somebody. So why not build an airlock on the "vehicle", put in some basic spacesuits, and perhaps even have them do occasional suit drills. Which I can guarantee they'll take seriously. And if a suit goes bad a year or two in, well, doesn't that just suck? Too bad, so sad, we'll try to be fast if you ever have a breach.
Now THAT would be a significantly more useful test.
Surely, they know they are on earth ...
The most crippling aspect of a mission to mars would be the psychological problems due to the knowledge you are not at home, on earth, you are not really safe and so on.
To be more true to life, the "crew" would have been made to actually believe they were in space. Of course that would be extremely tricky. Gravity and all.
Perhaps however could have sent them in LEO and simulate a mission there.
Mission abandons you. Then you end up locked in a small confined space.
if long distance space travel means incarceration in a wooden submarine.
I do not agree. First, working in a team increases human pain threshold twice.
Second, when you're a given a "stop" button, you can endure more pain and actually finish the given exercise. I cannot find the study that showed this, but can give you a short description - a control group of people were given electric shock (or other form of pain) until a certain threshold. Another group of people were going through the same exercise, but were given a button that could make the pain stop right away.
The group that did not have the button, gave up much earlier than the group that had that button. The latter group actually went through the end of the exercise.
So, if you're working in a group (first study above) and you're given a way out, I'd say it's much easier to endure the trip.
Thus I disagree with the parent post.
As for this study, I really think the test subjects should've been told they wouldn't be able to make it out, even if they wanted to..
This, however, could very well be the next test.
they are free to walk out at any time
That one factor is why this test is useless. It would be like researching how long a human can hold his breath but he is "free to breath at any time".
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
The problem is translation issues, using a bidet and showering aren't equilivant
When they finally open the capsule, and find they're still on earth.
They should pull the wool over their eyes and simulate Martian terrain and tell them "You know what, this was real all along" so that upon exit they think they're really on Mars, and then test their reaction.
Probably posted AC as lives in mum's basement, doesn't have a passport and thinks that France is an island off Key West... or is an American living in Paris and is scared of a thorough kicking from the French Foreign Legion
Why do you think no one has left the capsule yet?
Use convicted felons who happen to have the same educational and psychological make-up that would be required for a real mission, so they can force them to stay put?
Yeah, its not a "true" experience. Its a simulation. What's your point?
the second test wouldn't proof anything here, they could still stop at any time. pretty much as if they made the door open from the inside or the outside in this experiment.
.. can you really just walk away?
Or will they chase you through the desert, hunting you down with black helicopters...
although they are free to walk out at any time
That kind of makes everything different, doesn't it.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
I, for once am pleased to have read the entire FA just for the visual images:
"A similar experiment in 1999-2000 at the same Moscow research center went awry when a Canadian woman complained of being forcibly kissed by the Russian team captain. She also said two Russian crew members had a fist fight that left blood splattered on the walls. Russian officials downplayed the incidents, attributing them to cultural gaps and stress."
I'm not really convinced.
In both cases of the second study there's a way to stop, since even without the button giving up was a possibility. I'm not sure what the button changes. Perhaps it's that without the button, they think they'll have a hard time getting the test stopped early, and don't want to risk waiting until it gets unbearable before trying to talk their way out of it.
But in space, there's no stop button and no way out. No amount of arguing, threatening, beating people up, promising vast riches or the most horrible torment, killing, or anything else will change the fact that you're stuck in a capsule between Earth and Mars, and that no matter what, you're not getting out of it alive unless it successfully lands on Mars, then successfully returns home. Your only options are putting up with whatever problems you have and completing the mission, or directly or indirectly committing suicide.
I don't think there's a way of setting up a study with that kind of situation since ethical concerns would prevent it from happening, so I think the best study cases would be people who got into similar situations in the military, arctic research bases, and such.
put everybody west.
What's it like to be in a life and death situation with a team member you really hate?
when you don't like them primarily because they are reckless and have almost gotten you killed, it's a nightmare. you have to call them out in a relatively safe environment with other team members around. they either take it to heart and shape up or you adjust everything to limit your exposure to them as much as is possible under the mission. also, you make sure that somebody else is watching your back and watching them.
now, if you just don't like them for what ever reason. i've found that as long as they know how to do their job, everyone is fine. combat/hostile environments are funny things when it comes to that. you can hate a guys guts cause he's an asshole, but when you're in the middle of some third world hell hole, he becomes your best friend while you're out on that patrol. and you've got his back no matter what, cause he's YOUR asshole.
It's very interesting, IMHO, to follow @diegou, the italian-colombian guy on twitter, and I recommend it for everyone interested in space travel.
What would be funny is if they really were sent to Mars but only THOUGHT it was an experiment, but I would imagine the lack of gravity and the unfiltered sun blasting in the windows would be a dead giveaway.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Depends on the psychological makeup of the individuals involved, the immediate threat and the underlying grievance. In a situation where your life and the life of those you care about are in jeopardy, self preservation kicks in and a trained individual will do what it takes to eliminate that immediate threat. In a combat unit, those within are not interviewed to see if there are any among them that might have issues with others, unless they are an elite unit such as The Seals or Rangers. This situation however cannot be likened or compared to a combat situation. These people are in proximity (in theory) to one another without relief. I suspect this sort of test is being done to gauge and identify the stresses involved and the reactions from each when they are presented. It is a social experiment as well as a scientific one. Of course, there is always the isolated cases of soldiers being "fragged" in combat for cowardice or consistantly putting other members of the unit in danger. However, in space, no one can hear you silently plot to pull the air hose of the assbag in front of you.
Windows assumes you are an idiot...Linux demands proof.
No, it's not the airlock, it's the sound of the American space program sucking. We should be putting all our space research efforts on a real manned mission to Mars or at least returning to the Moon. Instead we've built a space station which few people give a crap about. We've mothballed our shuttles without a replacement. And we've killed off other manned vehicle programs and slashed the budgets all so that we can have an outreach program to make Muslims feel better about their contributions to science all of which happened centuries ago. Scott Adams could write several books on this.
I don't understand why the messages were 'occasionally delayed' - why not always delayed, to reinforce the experience? Seems like a relatively trivial way to make them really feel like they're out there.
-Styopa
As a practical joke, they should relocate the capsule to some desert that resembles Mars, put a fake Mars rover nearby, open the hatch of the capsule, and watch the men stumble out going "WTF?"
I find "bigot" be an appropriately general term for such incidences, to pre-empt nit-picking based on the technical meaning of "race".
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
How can 233 days down out of 520 be construed as anywhere near to close? They're not even halfway there yet!
So, when we really send people to Mars, we need to make them believe it is an earth side test :D
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?