US Authorities GPS Tagging Duped Indian Students

tanveer1979 writes "Indian students duped by Tri-Valley University in California have been fitted with GPS devices by US immigration authorities. Scores of Indian students were caught in a scam where the university violated immigration norms and illegally got the students F1 visa and immigration status. To keep a track on the movements of the students, the authorities have fitted them with GPS devices. This is spiraling into a major diplomatic row between India and the USA, with the former calling the practice inhuman and unwanted."

Comments

No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[elrous0]

They should be given plane tickets.

It should never have come down to a controversy over GPS devices because they should have been deported immediately when it was discovered that their visas were fraudulent. Goodbye, sorry about the scam, enjoy your trip back home, the ticket's on us.

Being duped (and their claims of being completely unwilling and unaware participants in the scam are already dubious at best) doesn't mean you get to remain in the country. Once back in India, they can reapply to a real university and get a real visa, if they wish. They can also be sent a refund of any "tuition" left over after this fake school's accounts were frozen. Beyond that, we don't owe them anything.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[Weezul]

I'd imagine INS felt they needed more evidence against the university, overboard or not. All these students should be well paid for their time working as informants against the university, keep their work paychecks, and be refunded their 'tuition'. Send them home happy with a "thank you come again", not a deportation stamp. And then extract massive fines from this for-profit university that more than cover these expenses.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[anyGould]

I think the government does owe them something - the school was listed as an approved site by the government, after all:

SEVIS is a web-based technology maintained by the US to track and monitor schools and programs, students, exchange visitors and their dependents, while they are legally enrolled in the US education system. Indeed, Tri-Valley University is among the SEVIS Approved Schools listed on the US ICE website. Authorities have since shut down the university.

So they came here, partly because the Government lists them as an approved school. Not their fault that the school is no longer approved.

But sending them home does seem preferable to the electronic-ball-and-chain. But then, American government is fond of the Guilty Until We Decide You're Guilty method...

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[eepok]

It has nothing to do with political power/votes. It has to do with (1) the cost of sending them back, (2) the potential for them to add to the economy (even if illegally), and (3) the cost to the economy if they all suddenly disappeared.

If the taxpayer were to pay for the rounding up and deportation of everyone in the country illegally, we'd not only have a MASSIVE bill on our hands but a ton of businesses would fail in the following days.

As much as "DO SOMETHING NOW"-sayers like to scream, they just don't want to understand that the nation is built on the exploitation of people desperate to make a living for their children. Gardeners, janitors, textiles, builders, cooks, cleaners, harvesters, etc. -- the "dirty job" industry would quickly collapse, entire crops would rot until reliable, knowledgeable workers can be found and employed; the stock market would drop with it (thanks to interdependent investment); and we'd still have unemployment because there wouldn't be a system in place to give those open jobs to the willing-to-work unemployed.

You're right. It's not about race, but it's not about crime, either. It's about MONEY. And the biggest obstacle to getting a fix through Congress is the "DO SOMETHING NOW" types shooting down pragmatic approaches such as plans that would allow amnesty for select illegal immigrants... like some of the ones in the farming industry.

"NO!!! I want all-or-nothing!! ALL OR NOTHING! DO SOMETHING NOW!"

Note: Semi-automatic just means anything but a bolt/lever/pump action firearm. This can be a simple pistol.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[Weezul]

It's infinitely more important to nab the university than the kids. If we em' to testify against the university, well shit give em' 5 year work visas conditional upon that testimony. I'd imagine the GPS devices were used to evidence so that INS didn't need to keep them here for testimony. If so, yes that dumb, let earn some money here in exchange for testimony. Don't treat em' like cattle.

INS most likely nabbed them at the border, maybe even planning it when they were in India. INS should've promised them at minimum immunity form a deportation stamp in exchange for helping to collect evidence against this for-profit university and their employers. Ideally, they should be sent home with a reasonable paycheck for working as a police informer, and no deportation stamp, assuming we don't need their testimony in court.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[BBTaeKwonDo]

I second the doubting of the "I didn't know the university was fake" argument:

Investigations by US authorities found that while students were admitted to residential and on-line courses of the university and on paper lived in California, in reality they worked illegally in various parts of the country as far as Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Texas.

Consider also a related article which gives the university's side of the story

"Starting in April, one of student assistants Anji Reddy, who worked in TVU administrative office, teamed with another student Ram Krista Karra, who also has a consultant company, conducting a large cheating scheme by asking students to make tuition payment into Ram Krista Karra's personal account in exchange for student I-20 and CPT approval. TVU has fired these two individuals," the email said.

So we've got a bunch of people who are supposed to be attending university in California but who are actually working in other states (the visa only allows on-campus employment of less than 20 hours per week) and are paying into someone's personal account. Either these students are the most naive, trusting bunch of people on Earth, or some (or more likely, all) of them were in on the scam.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[interkin3tic]

They should be given plane tickets. It should never have come down to a controversy over GPS devices because they should have been deported immediately when it was discovered that their visas were fraudulent. Goodbye, sorry about the scam, enjoy your trip back home, the ticket's on us.

It's the ones under investigation. It would be a bigger crime to round all the students up and put them on a plane, when some of the visas might be valid. Kind of ties into that whole "innocent before proven guilty" thing we like.

Or, perhaps more likely since they're not citizens and we've thrown that out long ago even -for- citizens, it's just that ICE doesn't have the time, money, or competence to put a dozen students on a plane in less than 2 months when there's no actual crime committed and they can't just drive a bus down to Mexico.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[brainboyz]

And lets not forget immigration wasn't on the law books at that point.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[commandermonkey]

And that crime group is probably leaving decapitated bodies in the desert?

Where do you live that police won't investigate crime because of semi-automatic weapons? And why do you think that 'illegals' are the only criminals with them? Every US city has an illegal narcotics run by our very own citizens and different members of those groups are packing much worse than semi-automatic weapons. Applying your logic about why the 'Guatemalan burglars' are so successful would imply that crime in the US could be easily cut down by making all semi-automatic weapons illegal, rounding up those guns and preventing the sale further in the US. Personally I am on-board with your idea(and I bet the Mexican government would be as well since most of the guns that are fueling their drug war come from the US.)

Its not immigrants it's about class.

Why do you think crime groups are started in the first place? Do you believe that someone wakes up one morning and says 'I have a good paying job and will be able to provide for my family, but you know, I really want to stick it to whity today so I think I will boost his 31" TV that he is so proud of!' Yes, that must be it.

More than anything else, the US tries to export it's ideal. The two chickens in every pot, a good paying job for all who want one, freedom from civil unrest, and the promise of a better tomorrow for anyone willing to work for it. And you know what? People, some living under oppression; others close to starvation; still more bound by a caste system they will never escape; many who look around at their current community and see no work; all these people and more fall for it! Lured by the ideals enshrined on the Statue of Liberty they see America as a shining city on the hill, a refuge for those who persecuted and want a better life for their families. They leave their loved ones and risk death or enslavement all for the chance to work below minimum wage, at some shit job you couldn't pay a US citizen to do and they have no recourse to report labor violations or crimes committed against them for fear of being sent back to the miserable life they came from.

I have no doubt that some who come here in search of a better life, get a glimpse of what the US really is and out of despair and desperation turn to crime. The doubt doesn't exist because many of our natural born citizens are forced to a path of crime for the same reasons.

You want to curb immigration? Stop talking about the American Dream; Stop writing about it; Stop making movies and TV shows about it; and please stop teaching our children about it. Instead show the images of the poor standard of living that most Americans live under. Write about the crappy health care that most receive(those that can afford to anyway) and how many of those issues are caused by not being able to afford proper nutrition. Rewrite sitcoms to show families that unemployed/underemployed because our primary/secondary education system does a poor job at training people to work in a modernizing world. Teach our children that if you work a 40+ hour a week job(if you can find it) in most jobs you will never be able to comfortably retire without assistance. Make movies where the hero is a middle class salaried employee who can't get ahead and, rather than examine the system that is holding him down, inexplicably blames the lowest class who is suffering a worse fate than he is.

In addition to scaring people away from immigrating to the US you have the added bonus of bringing attention to real problems for this country and not the pretend ones of illegals decapitating bodies in the desert or terrorist anchor babies.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[hey!]

Actually, giving them a plane ticket home would be better than treating them all like convicted child molesters. If they don't have mens rea (a guilty mind/criminal intent), they aren't criminals. They're people with incorrect immigration papers. So you say, "Gee, it's too bad your papers are screwed up, but you have to go home until you can get them straightened out. We'll give you a reasonable period to wrap up your affairs first of course. The people of the United States wish you well in all your future endeavors."

Treating people with respect costs less than treating them disrespectfully. And we want to treat these people with respect, because it is in our national interest to do so. India is the world's largest democracy. They aren't exactly an ally, but if you look at that part of the world, a strong, stable and generally cooperative country looks a lot better than a basket case ally that can transform overnight into an implacable enemy.

This is not about what we owe *them*. It's about what we owe ourselves.

The "solution" we ended up is the worst of all possible worlds. We're being provocatively harsh, *and they're still here*. We'd be better off just turning a blind eye to these people. Even if some of them ended up staying here indefinitely, that's not the end of the world, and it is certainly not worth inflaming the sensibilities of an important strategic and economic partner. People here in the US are pissed at Indians for doing exactly what we asked them to do. They sold us services under our free trade policies. They came here at our invitation to fill up H1B positions. And we're angry at *them* for the laws and policies we have enacted?

If it were up to me, I'd give these people the benefit of the doubt. I'd bend over backward to give them a chance to adjust their status, apply under a different visa program, or go home voluntarily. Why? Primarily because it's the decent, stand-up thing to do. But if that's not enough, it's the right thing to do for our national interests.

Re:No, they shouldn't be given GPS devices

[spun]

Wow, so natives never fought each other over territory? And our Republic was not modeled after the Five Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy? And you further claim that there was at least some land in the Americas that was NOT claimed by a sovereign nation?

I thought they taught real history in Canada, not the bullshit revisionism they teach here, but I see that, at least on the subject of Native history, you guys lie through your teeth just like we do. I guess when the alternative is admitting that you are descended from thieving illegal immigrants with a passion for genocide (just like everyone else in the world, m'kay?) a lie just feels more warm and cuddly.

Inhuman?

[hort_wort]

Inhuman? So are animals tagging each other with GPS locators now? Those dolphins and their paranoia, always hiding amongst my tuna....

The United States is really dumb

[Stargoat]

The United States does dumb things some times. American attitude: Let's bring over the best and brightest the world has to offer. We'll pay 40000 or more for their education. We'll not spend this money on an American. Then, we'll kick the best and brightest (and know best educated) people in the world out of the country when they graduate.

This strategy will strangle long term growth in the US. Smart and educated people have smart and educated kids who in turn have smart and educated kids. Do you see where this is going?

Re:The United States is really dumb

[elrous0]

Except that's NOT the issue here. These were far from the "best and brightest." Those guys go to REAL universities, not fake ones that are just fronts for illegal employment scams.

Re:The United States is really dumb

[loutr]

At my French university you could go study abroad for one year. The US were amongst the choices, you could even go to Berkeley or something like that. The beauty of this system was that you would pay the same tuition fees whether you went abroad or not, so basically you could go to Berkeley for one year and only pay your cheap French tuition fees* . OTOH, US students who came here paid their regular (indecent) US tuition fees...

* about 500€ per year, or even nothing if you have a scholarship, which is not really hard to get if you (or your parents) can't afford the tuition fees.

Re:The United States is really dumb

[elrous0]

about 500€ per year

Wow, that's about $700. That's less than a lot of U.S. students would spend just on books alone. And that's without a scholarship or financial aid.

Re:The United States is really dumb

[Nadaka]

$700 is about half the current tuition per semester of the cheapest community colleges in the US (most of them in Mississippi). No wonder the US is rapidly falling behind the rest of the world.

Re:The United States is really dumb

[Weezul]

If the parent went to EP or ENS, well those are actually better than Berkeley. lol

Almost all civilized countries have kept university basically free. Do you a realize French doctor charges only $25 for a consultation? Yeah, that's partially cuz med school costs them nothing. Did I mention every French doctor I've ever seen was better every American doctor I've seen? Did I mention those were mostly walkup appointments in France?

Btw, you'll actually find nearly open admission for European universities once you drop below the elites like EP and ENS, but that's kinda an illusion, most people who enter will never graduate, kinda like Georgia Tech. In particular, failing *any* required class twice will usually prevent you from graduating.

This will give us important data

[straponego]

We can track their breeding and migratory patterns, learn about where they eat, and-- wait, you're talking about people? What do you mean, "just brown people, for now?" Not cool.

for-profit university eh?

[Weezul]

Isn't this protecting Indian students from immigration exploitation?

All fees collected by this 'university' should be refunded to the students, along with a nice payment for working as an undercover informant. If the students can gain admission to a legitimate university and can afford it, they should be granted new student visa. Otherwise, they should be given a 90 day visa to wrap up their affairs in the U.S., under the understanding that this might involve continued work, and given a plane ticket home to india. They should not be considered deported if they leave within three months. Send them home happy for helping out INS.

And all these expenses should be recouped tenfold form this for-profit 'university' that obtained their visa.

Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs too

[realxmp]

The real reason isn't just about voting blocs, it's about party donors and cheap labor and both parties are guilty of it. Why do you think no serious attempt has been made to punish firms for deliberately employing illegal immigrants. Americans want cheap goods made in the USA -> largest cost in goods manufacture is labor + Illegals are cheap = Political inaction

Not deportation

[Weezul]

It appears they were willing to help INS nail their employers and this fraudulent for-profit 'university', therefore thy should be awarded all the usual benefits of police informers, i.e. no deportation stamp in their passport, payment for their services, keeping the gains of their illegal work, etc. At minimum, INS would've given them immunity from immediate deportation in exchange for their cooperation.

If you send some Indians home happy after helping INS nail exploitive employers, you'll get more confessing to passport control officers. Yeah sure they might've made oodles more working here illegally for years, but spending time with your family while receiving a reasonable one time payout, well that's probably good enough for most.

Nope... that's kinda of a US government's thing...

[denzacar]

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's thing to be precise.
Like when they issue them a student visa...

The students say they were unaware of the dodgy nature of the university and they were conned. In a petition to the secretary of homeland security and the director of ICE, the affected students said they registered in the university believing it is a "bonafide and legitimate university that had been registered with the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS) database."

SEVIS is a web-based technology maintained by the US to track and monitor schools and programs, students, exchange visitors and their dependents, while they are legally enrolled in the US education system. Indeed, Tri-Valley University is among the SEVIS Approved Schools listed on the US ICE website. Authorities have since shut down the university.

And when TFA says "among the SEVIS Approved Schools listed on the US ICE website", it means IT IS STILL AMONG THE APPROVED SCHOOLS.

 
 
On a side note, I completely understand your feelings regarding this matter.
If I was a Navajo Indian, I too would be pissed off by all these immigrant "Indians" coming to my country. Fuckers don't even wear feathers.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to

[FatAlb3rt]

You're right, both parties are guilty of it. The difference is one party tends to have some members that want to do something about it, and the entire party is demonized as being inhumane.

This is not wrong!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an Indian and am aware about the craze among Indians engineers to go abroad (or get an MBA). Infact I am writing this from Germany. While a lot of Indians have contributed to foreign lands, this doesn't mean all Indians are intelligent or will contribute to economy of whereever they go.
The students in this case want India (and the world) to believe that they are harmless victims of the situation, but I am sure they were aware of the scam and hence should have reported this matter earlier. If you don't report a crime, you're somehow responsible for it. Probably, some 'education consultant' from India was involved in the whole scheme.

I don't see any racist element to this, they should be happy about the fact that they are not in some detention center ready to be sent back to India.

There is nothing wrong with going to foreign lands for better education and career prospects. After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents and this is why the company picks him/her over a native. Sorry, today the world works on these terms.... So don't crib about Indians taking your jobs all the time.....there is a reason we get picked over natives.

 

Re:This is not wrong!

[rickb928]

"After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents" Let me fix that for you: "After all, if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents and, most importantly, the fact he/she will be a virtual slave on an H1B visa and put up with wages and conditions no American that could do the job would tolerate"

Might as well get it right.

Re:This is not wrong!

[joebob2000]

I'm an Indian [...] if an Indian abroad takes a job from somebody else he does so based on his talents and this is why the company picks him/her over a native. Sorry, today the world works on these terms.... So don't crib about Indians taking your jobs all the time.....there is a reason we get picked over natives.

Um, no. The reason that an Indian gets a job over an American is that the Indian is not a citizen, is here on a work visa, and must leave the country if he does not have a job. His employer usually promises to help him gain a green card through a process that takes years. If the Indian were to lose his job, this process could be screwed up or even reset and he would have to start all over again. All these things make him a compliant employee who is motivated to work hard, take less pay, and is less likely to leave a company.

Foreigners on work visas are model employees because they are working under a modern day version of indentured servitude. The carrot is the promise of help with a green card application. The stick is the promise of getting kicked out of the country if you lose your job.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to

[Malc]

Interesting article over at The Economist analyzing how much cheap Chinese imports have saved Americans money by keeping domestic manufacturing in check. Americans like their goods cheap more than they like wage inflation it seems.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to

[h00manist]

Applying that business perspective, what would make the most sense is to allow massive immigration, to have lots of laborers, and keep it illegal, to have them work cheap. Which is more or less what happens. But I'm sure the dynamics are a lot more complex than that. Even in Italy, where racism and immigrant deportation is much quicker than the US, immigrants are quite numerous. As I see it, many of these countries provide cheap labor, cheap natural resources, etc, which get shipped to another country with more financial resources for very low prices. Well, after a while, they become depleted of of everthing, and start following their resources. The fact that their immigration is illegal is just a regulatory, technical inconvenience. Nobody is going to be sitting waiting in poverty for economic equality, justice, opportunity, etc. They just go where the jobs are.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to

[imthesponge]

The thing is, illegal immigration is unregulated labor, which conservatives absolutely treasure.

Or put another way

[ThatsNotPudding]

Note: Semi-automatic just means anything but a bolt/lever/pump action firearm. This can be a simple pistol.

aka 'Point and Click'

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to

[h4rr4r]

This is not true at all. The increase of $1 per hour for laborers on tomatoes increased their price by cents per pound. Labor is not the biggest cost of these goods.

Everybody RUN!

[spun]

They're coming for our WORDS! It's 1984 meets Brave New World meets The Prince meets a thesaurus!

Yes, feast on the outrage. The hate will make you strong. The fear will keep you sharp. Knowing about the evil conspiracy to take our words makes you better than the sheeple who don't realize that the crypto-fascist-islamist-terrorist-commie-nazi-liberals want to control what they think.

Re:Not just next voting bloc, it's labour costs to

[AK Marc]

Which party is that? The Republicans gave immigration amnesty in 1986 and tried again under Bush, but that failed because of the Democrats. Members of both parties want to do something about it. But the only one that made a massive move to make the illegals legal voters was the Republicans. Though your insinuations I'd take to indicate you are talking about the "other" party as the one catering to non-voters to make them voters.

Republicans strongly want illegal immigrants in the country because it's good for business. Democrats want illegal immigrants in the country because they think it's good for the country and people involved. Both want illegal immigrants to enter. Only one wants it for profit. But I guess in our neo-capitalistic society, anything done for profit must be right...