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Computer Industry Mourns DEC Founder Ken Olsen

alphadogg writes "Kenneth Olsen, the computer industry pioneer who co-founded and led minicomputer king Digital Equipment Corp. for 35 years, died at the age of 84 on Sunday in Indianapolis. As DEC's leader, Olsen oversaw the company's epic battles vs. IBM and its mainframes for the hearts and business of IT shops – a fight DEC eventually lost as the era of fast, cheap and networked PCs took hold in the 1980s and 1990s. During its heyday, DEC's PDPs, VAXes and DECnet network technology became staples in many organizations, and today's IT industry remains filled with companies whose founders once worked at DEC or with its gear. Digital was acquired in 1998 by Compaq. Dan Bricklin, co-creator of the VisiCalc spreadsheet and DEC alum, tweeted: 'Ken Olsen is in the elite club of tech founders w/Gates & Jobs, and set the stage for them. What he did we take for granted today.'"

172 comments

  1. Soul of a new machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And now his soul is free...to...agh can't complete joke

    1. Re:Soul of a new machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was a good book especially about how they debugged the hardware. People don't do it as much these days.

    2. Re:Soul of a new machine by Chapter80 · · Score: 1

      Too bad that book was about Data General, and not DEC.

      The book opens with a turf war between two computer design groups within Data General Corporation, a minicomputer vendor in the 1970s. Most of the senior designers are assigned the "sexy" job of designing the next generation machine, which will be done in North Carolina. Their project (code-named "Fountainhead") is to give Data General a machine to compete with the new VAX computer from Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC), which is starting to take over the new 32-bit minicomputer market.

    3. Re:Soul of a new machine by Lucas123 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the book is about a turf war between Data General and DEC, and it involves corporate espionage. So, it is about DEC too -- just saying.

    4. Re:Soul of a new machine by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      By a coincidence, before I heard about Ken Olsen's passing, I re-read "vmsbook.pdf" yesterday, which is a very cheery and optimistic history of VAXes and VMS up until 1997. Very sad that Compaq took them over the following year.
      Here is a link to the PDF.

    5. Re:Soul of a new machine by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      What the heck? My link got messed up. It should be to:
      http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf

      Link

      Oops, looks like the http:/// got left off in my original post. Sorry.

  2. Farewell by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    Your company allowed me to play my first ever video game, Lunar Lander on the GT40 graphics terminal

    1. Re:Farewell by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I have been looking around for a first person lunar lander but so far no such luck. I installed a simple 2D lunar lander game from the android marker but its not as good as that 1969 effort.

    2. Re:Farewell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to playLunar Lander on a VS-11 and then a VSV-11 Graphics Device.

      So long Ken. Thanks for the memories.

    3. Re:Farewell by tverbeek · · Score: 2

      My first contact with a "real" computer (via an acoustically-coupled modem in high school) was with a DEC PDP, and I cut my programming teeth learning Fortran and Pascal on a DEC VAX in college. That may not be as significant to the world as producing the hardware that Unix was built on, but it was important to me.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    4. Re:Farewell by sunzoomspark · · Score: 1

      My first programming lesson was with an acoustic coupler and a hard copy terminal connected to a DEC PDP 11 system. The first piece of computer hardware I owned was a VT-100 terminal, and the DEC 20 they had at Wesleyan was like HAL from 2001 to me at the time. The pacsal compiler was a nightmare, though. Ken Olsen and DEC taking on IBM was an inspiration. Cheers to Ken Olsen!

    5. Re:Farewell by bareman · · Score: 1

      It wasn't long after those Fortran, Pascal, and COBOL classes that we were administering said DEC VAX computers. I think I can still find a record of one of my DECUS program submissions ("MCLS" #V00200) out there somewhere. That was back when we called "open source" by the name "public domain".

    6. Re:Farewell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been looking around for a first person lunar lander but so far no such luck

      Do a web search for 'AMSO' and 'NASSP'.

  3. Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Dynamoo · · Score: 3, Interesting
    One unexpected legacy of the DEC years is that Windows NT is very heavily influenced by Digital's VMS OS. When Microsoft wanted to build an enterprise-ready OS, they basically hired DEC's engineers to design it for them (for example Dave Cutler). So even under the hood of Windows 7, some of that core architecture is directly influenced by DEC's work.

    I do wonder what would have happened if DEC hadn't been taken over by the dead hand of Compaq. After all, IBM still sell plenty of big iron systems and there's a definite need these days for highly reliable and secure systems - of the type DEC made - for eCommerce applications.

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    1. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by AlecC · · Score: 2

      I think that DEC had lost it long before they were taken over by Compaq. One thing was cosmetic: they insisted that they were called "Digital" instead of the name everybody knew and loved them by, "DEC". But more importantly, they put their effort into increasingly large VAXes instead of the low end machines they had made their fortune on. They killed off the PDP-11 line, and had to bring it back because of customer demand. They has made their fortune on relatively simple boxes that people could use and abuse to their particular needs: you simply couldn't do that with their big VAXes. But you could do it with PCs, and people did, They invented more sophisticated internal busses, so it became much harder to build a board to add in to a system, at just the time the PC was making available a standard (albeit pretty crappy) bus for everybody. Basically, they left their territory and tried to move into IBM's at a time when IBM was losing it as well.

      When I started, every engineer had a shelf or purple PDP-11 handbooks, even if they didn't used them. So when you were designing something, you could look up the DEC solution. Later, everybody had a shelf-full of PC book. But nobody who didn't really need it had a shelf-full of Vax book.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    2. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Yup, it was odd that the summary said they lost the battle against IBM - they didn't lose it, the battle became irrelevant in the face of cheap commodity PCs. Mainframes are still very profitable for IBM, but they've gone from being the way that any company that needs computing power supplies it to being a very small niche market.

      The Alpha did well though. There was a time when anyone who wanted a fast computer got an Alpha. Even with the overhead of emulating x86, it could often run Windows applications at a similar speed to Intel's top chips, and for UNIX systems. The last Alpha machine lost its spot in the top 10 supercomputers a decade after they stopped designing new Alpha chips. Unfortunately, they (HP by then) bought into the Itanium hype and outsourced CPU development to Intel, who then failed to deliver.

      VMS still has some features that make a 'modern' UNIX system look positively archaic, but it runs on VAX, Alpha, and Itanium, so no one learns how to use it and even companies with a problem that VMS would be the perfect solution for are unlikely to have someone who knows about VMS and can suggest it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they put their effort into increasingly large VAXes instead of the low end machines they had made their fortune on

      Not to mention they went out of their way to cripple the low end machines they did build, for example the proprietary formatted RX50 floppies used in the Rainbow. What a great way to kill your own market.

    4. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They didn't just "hire DEC engineers". David was one of the architects of VMS, and there were serious lawsuits about the theft of copyrighted material and trade secrets, which were settled out of court. (Why do you think NT ran on Alpha chips for a long time?)

      DEC thought they were better off continuing to innovate instead of trying to bring down Microsoft's law-breaking new monopoly in court. But meanwhile Intel was stealing the Alpha CPU technologies for the Pentium chip: between the loss of both of those leading edge technologies, and their less effective but still cost-effective re-unication by the thieves in the "Wintel" architectures, DEC had little left to work with.

      DEC made a lot of fabulous technologies which I found useful in the lab and in industry, but they weren't good at protecting their best assets from intellectual theft, and they refused to embrace the open source approach of various UNIX and later Linux technologies, and it left them without a large enough market to continue to build such wonderful hardware.

    5. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For what it's worth, DEC's work is still alive in big iron. Compaq (or was it HP after buying up Compaq?) had sold DEC Alpha tech to Intel, which was the basis for the Itanium2 - while it's not exactly in a market position worthy of DEC being a distant third behind Sparc and Power, it's alive, and it's the only Big Iron arch VMS and it's children (NT) run on.

      And HP has been taking care of VMS, technically speaking, their flagship product is a DEC-designed OS (OpenVMS) running on DEC-derivewd hardware (Itanium2 SuperDomes), and hell, as you mentioned, for better or worse, DEC's influence is alive in NT.

    6. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

      Well, having worked on both VMS and NT (why yes, I am that old, thanks for asking) I don't see the similarity. Pretty much *all* modern operating systems show similarities, after years of everyone "borrowing" ideas from others.

      The biggest legacy, to me, of DEC is Linux. Without a certain PDP-7 computer and some extremely brilliant engineers, Unix would never have existed, and Linus and his buddies would have nothing to "borrow" from.

    7. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by makapuf · · Score: 1

      fun fact (maybe just a coincidence after all, or an urban legend, but fun anyway ) : It was said that Windows NT naming comes from VMS.
      (hint : VMS successor => WNT)

    8. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      But nobody who didn't really need it had a shelf-full of Vax book.

      I still have a couple boxes of orange VMS manuals in binders, from when I did a VMS version upgrade for the robotics lab where I worked. Rather than toss the obsolete manuals, I brought them home... 24 years ago. And the last time I touched or logged in to a VMS system was probably 22 years ago.

    9. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Locutus · · Score: 1

      the all out acceptance of Windows NT at DEC is IMO what contributed to their quick downfall. Remember, HP almost fell for the same thing and was on the path to push all their HPUX customers to Windows NT based systems when they stopped it. DEC was enamored with Windows NT and many of their customers were pushed and marketed to regarding how great NT was. DEC had great high-end hardware and even their lower end stuff looked well engineered but cheaper boxes from other vendors kept the sales from happening.

      So you might want to think that the ties between DEC and Microsoft Windows is a warm fuzzy memory but it really isn't.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    10. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As I remember it (former Digit involved with VAX to Alpha migrations), this period was one of Mr. Palmer's campaign to divest the company of all work not considered core to the business. This included selling off the database development groups to Oracle, the chip engineering to Intel (including patent portfolio), and so on. Mr. Cutler was a member of the original VMS development team but not primary architect. He did later become a prime architect and sponsor for a project (I believe it was called Prism/Mica) that later fed the Alpha project.

      One of the failings with the Alpha was the failure of Msoft to deliver NT in time for the Alpha launch. DEC was relying on NT to drive sales volume for low-end Alpha based systems. As such, DEC engineers worked closely with Msoft in developing NT, especially the Alpha related code.

      BTW, does anyone remember the OpenVMS/Alpha based laptop? It did exist - developed by a third party.

      FWIW.

    11. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      DEC like TI blew in a way blew it because they didn't want to kill their markets.
      DEC had single chip versions of the PDP11 the F11 cpu. They could have combined them with one of their single users OSs and produced a computer that was more powerful and with a larger software base then CP/M or the PC had at launch.
      DEC could have sold the CPUs and OS to other manufactures after the launched the first machine and became Intel and MIcrosoft combined.
      Thing was they didn't want to not sell high margin PDP-11s to people.

      TI used the same CPU in the 99/4 line as it used in it's minicomputers. Again they crippled it so they didn't complete with themselves.

      I think IBM went with the PC being so not like the System 34, 36, 38, or 360/370 computers to draw a hard line between their "personal computer" and their real computers.
      DEC really did have a chance to grab the business market early with the F11 if they had just wanted it. Instead they simply ignored it. Which is really sad IMHO. One wonders if DEC would have been more fun to deal with all these years then Intel, Microsoft and in the past IBM.

      But VMS is still around and NT/XP/Vista/7 are related to it. The Alpha team went to both AMD and Intel and that DNA is in the Athlon and Itantium line. I blame Itantium's failings on the PA-RISC DNA and DEC help push the ARM line forward with their Strong ARM line which is owned by Marvell.
      Plus there machines are the birth places of Adventure and Zork!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    12. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still have them, on prominent position, although I dont use them any more. I worked with a Unimate Puma 300 mid 80s with 6 pdp-11's on a VME backplain for each movement. My vaxstation 2000 is still in perfect running order, but my tk50's are shot.

      Anyone who has ever worked with VMS (and RSX for that matter) know what programming freedom you had, and what the real programming is.

      Made a living teaching VMS administration for about 10 years. 2 of them with Compaq that was shooting itself on the foot. Totally ignorant people. They should stick to PC and not mess with real technology.

    13. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The market for the older minicomputer companies was still around, but in the workstation front. Digital just didn't do very well there with the VAXstations and DECstations; their later Alphas were good but a bit too little too late. But Sun managed to grow the small workstation market at the right time, so that the newcomer muscled out the veteran.

      Digital's version of Unix, Ultrix was just a bit odd in some ways (though not as goofy as AIX) but SunOS felt more like a traditional Unix. What really got SunOS a leg up I think was that it had a good diskless workstation approach using network disks and configuration for a cheaper cost of entry, but could also scale up when needed. Long term though, SunOS used more open protocols and standards, whereas Digital tried to invent their own at every stage. Digital was always a little slow in reacting - they were slow to embrace Unix, slow to embrace RISC principles, slow to embrace smaller/cheaper computers, slow to embrace standards. I've always sort of seen Digital as a mini-IBM, the same sort of genius saddled with a corporate lethargy and NIH syndrome.

      (Oh yeah, I had a shelf full of VAX books in my office; whereas for Unix I just used the "man" command instead ;-)

    14. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I have sort of a love/hate relation with VMS. It has some really nice ideas that are well engineered. VMS was just chock full of corporate stuff and was "enterprise" before that word came into vogue, whereas Unix had much more of a "let's get 'er done" approach. Ie, VMS was suit and tie, whereas Unix was tie-dye. It was often a struggle to get simple things done under VMS, whereas keeping-it-simple was the underlying theme in Unix.

      I know that a VAX-780 in my university supported many more users simultaneously under VMS than it could under BSD, because VMS was designed for that (batch processing, more advanced priority schemes, better paging systems than the early Unix versions).

    15. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The VMS parts are in the Kernel, not in WIN32. Probably the most recognizable parts would be the priority schemes and paging which are not exactly VMS but definitely inspired along that style. Most Windows programmers I think don't get down to the Kernel level and treat WIN32 as the lowest level. The original NT design technically allowed using something other than WIN32, like their POSIX layer (completely useless except for marking off a box on a checklist, since all the useful facilities you needed were on the WIN32 side).

    16. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Ahh, to be the geek again;
      And play around with old SYSGEN
      And users who would worship you
      Because I gave them TPU.

      Goodnight, Mr. Olsen, sleep well :(

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    17. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People wanting more information about this need to read one (or two) books on the subject. The first one is titled: "Show Stopper! The Breakneck Race to Create Windows NT and the Next Generation at Microsoft" by G. Pascal Zachary. The second (optional) book is titled: "DEC Is Dead, Long Live DEC: The Lasting Legacy of Digital Equipment Corporation" by Edgar H. Schein.

      Book 1 is Microsoft centric while Book 2 is DEC centric (and deals with how management problems at DEC failed to miss the RISC revolution which led to the departure of Dave Cutler).

    18. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Anyone who has ever worked with VMS (and RSX for that matter) know what programming freedom you had, and what the real programming is.

      Yes. The freedom to spend all afternoon trying to count single and double quotes in DCL, making sure that they're properly mismatched in order to accomplish what you're trying to do.

      And let's not forget QIO. "Hey, let's wrap an entire OS worth of functionality in one entry point, and just use a ginormous variable parameter list to sort it out!"

    19. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      BTW, does anyone remember the OpenVMS/Alpha based laptop? It did exist - developed by a third party.

      Wow! How long did it run on one charge of refrigerant?

    20. Re:Windows NT = VMS (sort of) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's just put it this way: you didn't want to use it in your lap if you wanted children.

  4. Rest In Peace, Mr Olsen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I didn't had that much the priviledge of meeting your personnally, I only have a few memories of your very common car lost 'somwhere' on the parking lot at ZK-01 and you, just looking for it. Or spending a much-than-expected time you spent with the FS engineers setting up the systems for DECville in Cannes. Or even you fixing the washing machine of your neighbour's mother which neighbour was a DEC employee who almost had a stroke when she saw her CEO kneeled in soapy water in her basement. Obviously, you made some mistakes; refusing to consider the growing PC market, and also disregarding the Unix market. Well, the only individuals who do not make mistakes are those who do nothing. You've been a great engineer, a great boss, a great man. Have a nice flight in the wild blue. At least I can say that I had to real bosses in my life : you and Seymour. The last point you share is quite not the one I like most.

    1. Re:Rest In Peace, Mr Olsen by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      zk - ha! spitbrook. been 15 or more years since I thought of that site.

      my first 6 years in computing were with DEC. after college in boston (early 80's) - DEC was *the* place to apply for if you were comp-sci. everyone wanted to work at DEC and you'd be happy to get in any way you could (heh, I started at EduServices then found my way back into engineering).

      I'm now out in calif (left DEC to relo out here in the 90's) and while I've worked for some giants (cisco, sgi, places like that) - nothing was anything like DEC in the new england area. I guess cisco now comes close with 'ciscoville' in the san jose area. DEC was 120k people and its EASYnet was the largest private network in the world. even today, its impressive to think of all the services the EASYnet had. all addressed by 'area.node' in good old DECnet phase IV.

      btw, I'm not THAT old; but on a recent interview - the person who was asking me questions remarked 'wow, you've been working longer than I've been alive!' and maybe I have been at this too long. having DEC on my resume is almost an invite to age-ism, isn't it, now?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  5. Had a good innings by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

    84 or as I prefer to say it, 124.

    1. Re:Had a good innings by Dynamoo · · Score: 1

      Oh I really hate Octal. At least you can normally tell hex from decimal quite easily..

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    2. Re:Had a good innings by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Ah I had forgotten DEC's love of octal, even after everyone else used hex. Then there were the SIXBIT and SIXBITZ character strings yo used to pack six characters into a word (a good solid 36 bit word, even back in 1963).

    3. Re:Had a good innings by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      160010 400
      160020 410
      160030 420
      160040 430
      160050 440
      160060 450
      160070 460
      160100 470
      160110 500

      and so on. Its the bus address and interrupt vectors for DZ11 MUX cards at my last job. Sorry, its just burned into my brain and I couldn't resist. On the PDP you could pretty much assume that a number would be octal, if it had anything to do with the hardware. If a card failed and brought the CPU down the register dump would almost always give you the bus address of the card.

    4. Re:Had a good innings by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Heh, try keeping up with a distro that do its release numbering in octal...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    5. Re:Had a good innings by dmbasso · · Score: 1

      That's the reason for using zero as prefix... if he used 0124 it would be explicit.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    6. Re:Had a good innings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      0124 that is.

    7. Re:Had a good innings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well octal was perfectly reasonable on the PDP-8s; but on
      the PDP11s was nothing but a pain in the butt!

    8. Re:Had a good innings by Ster · · Score: 1

      That's the reason for using zero as prefix... if he used 0124 it would be explicit.

      The hell it would! Some of us would like to use zero for padding decimal output, but we can't because when you then feed it into anything that uses libc atoi() or strto*(), the leading '0's make it get interpreted as octal. That, and *printf()'s inability to print a numerical value as a bit-string (i.e. "1111" (binary) in addition to "017" (octal), "f" (hex), and "15" (decimal)), are two of my biggest pet-peeves with C.

    9. Re:Had a good innings by twotommylong · · Score: 1

      84 or as I prefer to say it, 124.

      or as I prefer to say it, 2,191,320,000 Microfortnights (give or take...)

    10. Re:Had a good innings by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Octal was great for many of the PDPs though, because it used 3 bits for a lot of the instruction fields that lined up with octal nicely (ie, you could look at an instruction and pick out the registers that were being used).

  6. DEC scared IBM in the 80's by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember reading an article in The Economist about DEC and their VAXes in the 80's. The point was the a VAX was cheap enough that a low level executive could approve the expenditure. An IBM mainframe purchase would require approval at the top executive level of the company. IBM responded by bringing out a mini-mainframe called the 9370 as a "VAX killer," but it was a flop. The minicomputer was killed by PCs. However, IBM still makes a lot of money with their mainframes, with folks who have tons of data, and need high availability: like banks and insurance companies.

    For DEC they could have gone downscale to PCs, but the profit margins are too low: it's a commodity item. IBM doesn't build PCs anymore; they sold their PC business to Lenovo. Or they could have gone upscale, to compete with IBM mainframes. In the 90's, big Sun servers were causing IBM some grief. But we all see what happened to Sun.

    I like to have choice. So the more vendors that are out there, the better. When I look at the passenger airplane industry, there are only two choices: Airbus or Boeing. I would welcome more competition, from say, Japan or Russia. Russia!?!?! Well, their Soyuz is the only way to get into space now, so they could probably be able to build good passenger airplanes.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Well into the 1990s the IBM minicomputer ran OS/2. It was okay as a department level server. DEC also had failures at the low end. There was the MicroVAX and a micro VMS to go along with it, but technology caught up too fast so cut down systems were soon not required.

    2. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by sphealey · · Score: 1

      > Well into the 1990s the IBM minicomputer ran OS/2.

      System/1, System/34, System/36, and the AS/400 most certainly did not use OS/2 as their operating system(s).

      sPh

    3. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      No but they had kind of a high end PC running OS/2 as a server. Notes at my site used AIX as the main server with this smaller OS/2 boxes scattered around. Wide area networks then weren't what they are now.

    4. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Well into the 1990s the IBM minicomputer ran OS/2

      Huh? When did IBM ever run OS/2 on anything other than PCs?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Dynamoo · · Score: 1

      They did tinker in the PC market, mostly through rebranded Olivetti systems.. but the only type of customer who would probably buy them would have been a DEC shop already.. but then getting a decent VT emulator running was very difficult, and the good ones (e.g. KEA ZSTEM) were expensive, which meant then those VTs were hard to shift.

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    6. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Well into the 1990s the IBM minicomputer ran OS/2

      Huh? When did IBM ever run OS/2 on anything other than PCs?

      Maybe I was too liberal with the term "minicomputer". I was referring to the high end PC hardware which OS/2 was deployed on to function as a local or department level server.

    7. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      but then getting a decent VT emulator running was very difficult

      Ha! a former co-worker of mine (he could be reading) wrote a VT compatible emulator for windows. He went by the username "lec" so his emulator was called LECTerm.

    8. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Smallpond · · Score: 3, Informative

      For DEC they could have gone downscale to PCs, but the profit margins are too low: it's a commodity item. IBM doesn't build PCs anymore; they sold their PC business to Lenovo.

      You have forgotten the DEC Rainbow. But that's ok, everyone else has also forgoten the Rainbow.

    9. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Actually IBM had plans for a micro-kernel called IBM Workplace OS or WPOS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Workplace_OS . One of the ideas was to get it running on other non-PC architectures, so OS/2 could run on them. It was developed at IBM Boca Raton in Florida, where OS/2 came from. They actually shipped a product, OS/2 Warp 4, that ran on the micro-kernel.

      I talked to an ex-IBM AIX developer years after the whole project was shit-canned. He told me he attempted to use WPOS with AIX on their POWER platform. He told me how the system struggled with booting, and then rolled over and died. As a true Texan (where POWER and AIX systems were developed), he added that if that system had been a horse, he would have shot it in the head to take it out of its misery.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    10. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually it was the PDP that got introduced under the nose of IBM. That's why it was called "Peripheral Data Processor", it could fly under the radar as office equipment. VAX was much later, after the DecSystem 10 and 20 (odd 36-bit machines).

      The Dec Rainbow was the first DEC PC has a "real" PC unlike the previous Robin (a VT100 with the guts replaced with a PC board). That machine was dual processor and coud be taken apart and put back together with a dime. Very cool architecture. But DEC just didn't take the PC as a serious business.

      Another bad move was not licensing VMS for machines other than the VAX. It was felt that doing that would eat into VAX sales. It was always said that people didn't buy a VAX, they bought VMS. I saw VMS running on an early Sun workstation so porting was possible. Olsen turned down Sun's request, they turned to UNIX instead.

      I believe that DEC floundered after Olsen retired. It was such a one-man company that no one really had what it took to take over. I worked for DEC for some years but got out when I saw the writing on the wall.

      One aside, Ken would often answer his own phone. It shocked me the first time that happened!

      Olsen was an engineer with an technical mind in a world, at the time, dominated by silly marketing types. Sad to hear of his passing.

       

    11. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      When I look at the passenger airplane industry, there are only two choices: Airbus or Boeing.

      They're the ones you see more usually in the US and Europe, I suppose, but there are others, such as Embraer, Bombardier, Sukhoi, Tupolev, and Antonov.

    12. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      I had the pleasure of working on a DEC 2060/TOPS-20 system during my college days. It was a great system to program and learn on and even had an Algol compiler. It also was crashable by using recursive batch jobs to fill the disks to 100%. There are a number of aficionados who are still running 'twenex' systems and most, if not all, the core stuff is available if you want to set one of your own up.

    13. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by dan_linder · · Score: 2

      You have forgotten the DEC Rainbow. But that's ok, everyone else has also forgoten the Rainbow.

      Which is sad really. It was a dual-processor system - a Zilog Z80 and an Intel 8080 CPU. When it ran CP/M the Z80 did everything, but when it ran MS-DOS the 8080 was the primary CPU and the Z80 handled the IO.

      The architecture was even better thought through and didn't break up the RAM like the IBM PC did (hence the 640K "limit"). I remember booting my Rainbow 100B and getting 720KB of usable RAM without trying very hard.

      Sadly, the only real games that got ported to it were the Zork line of Infocom games, and a few DEC written graphical games. (Anyone remember "SCRAM"? Probably not the most marketable game since the objective was to descend to the lowest level of a failing nuclear reactor and "scram it" to keep it from going critical...)

      Ken, you have no idea how much your "little company" got me started in computers. Thank you!

      Dan

    14. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Pf0tzenpfritz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think we're all pretty bored buying the same airplanes over and over again. Do you, by any chance, know a reliable supplier of golden water taps, old chap? I am tired of those Philippe Starck ones.

      --
      Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
    15. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by JoeD · · Score: 1

      Oh, I remember the Rainbow.

      Q: What's the difference between a DEC Rainbow and a bowling ball?

      A: There's more software for the bowling ball.

    16. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Russia and Ukraine used to build airplanes for internal use only. I think some countries still buy their old planes, but the problem with Russia is that they are so corrupt, that any new business must immediately be profitable to the people in power through bribes, or it can go fuck itself basically.

      Most known ex-USSR airplanes are IL and AN and TU and SU

          For example Antonov is known for this

      but again, those 'companies' (they weren't really companies during USSR time) have been stagnating and mostly it's due to the bureaucratic nature of the industry in Russia, which cannot make a step on its own, it's all gov't dominated and monopolized and corrupt.

    17. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A VAX was so much easier to develop on than the IBM systems we used to say 'When God writes software he uses a VAX'. Didn't originate with us but it fit. Using a VAX we needed fewer people to development a product, less system management was required, and when the power did something weird and cause all the systems to crash the battery-backed-up VAX systems were back up in minutes while the IBM machines took half an hour or more. Also if you were editing something when there was a crash you got back all your edits except maybe the last change.

    18. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      My high school received a Rainbow the year after I graduated. I recall going in to look at it or help set it up. I believe it had a Pascal compiler, though I might be misremembering that.

    19. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For graphical games, someone ported Tetris -- no music, but still addictive enough.

      I believe fully stuffing the RAM board would get you 960K. I could find bulk chips pretty cheap at the local electronics supply store.

      There were all sorts of nifty aftermarket addons, like an actual battery-powered clock (so you didn't have to set the time every time you booted!) and a pricey 286 board. When you had the 286 board installed, you could actually run a version of Windows 3.0! -- though the mouse had to share the serial port with the modem via a switchbox.

      There was also a way of adding a larger-capacity 1/2-height HD (30MB?), and a DD 3-1/2" floppy. I think the only thing I never managed to find was the ethernet card (which supposedly sucked anyhow). By the time I finished tricking the whole thing out, I wound up buying a 486 to do actual work on.

      I still have the whole thing up in my attic, untouched for, oh, 18 years now. LA50 printer, and even a touchscreen monitor for those Pro 350 boxes they provided for interactive laserdisc units (forgot what they called those). Sometimes I'm tempted to drag it back down and see if it'll still boot, but with that metal vertical stand, it must weigh 50lbs...

    20. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Jecel+Assumpcao+Jr · · Score: 1

      For DEC they could have gone downscale to PCs, but the profit margins are too low: it's a commodity item. IBM doesn't build PCs anymore; they sold their PC business to Lenovo.

      People, including Gordon Bell, like to mention Ken's "Nobody needs a computer in their home" quote to say he lacked the vision to get into the PC market. I don't agree - as much as it saddens me, the home computer was a fad that had died out by the 1990s. People have PCs, which is a business machine, in their home offices.

      While DEC's PC efforts failed, this 1982 movie shows that they did try:

      http://www.youtube.com/computerhistory#p/u/31/YKbnbvF_2Ew

      This approach, trying to leverage their PDP-11 and PDP-8 technologies, had a better chance of working than their later industry standard stuff, like the Rainbow. But I think they were about three years too late.

    21. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Dillan · · Score: 1

      For DEC they could have gone downscale to PCs, but the profit margins are too low: it's a commodity item. IBM doesn't build PCs anymore; they sold their PC business to Lenovo. Or they could have gone upscale, to compete with IBM mainframes.

      Unfortunately they tried both at once with the 72" tall VAX9000 (standard VAXen were 60") and the various Crapavetti and DECMate PCs, both were hailed as the future of computing. Oh and the started promoting Unix/RISC platforms as well. Oh and then the Alpha arrived and sort of made it a bit trickier to describe the product lineup. Confused does not even begin to describe the state of the customers or the sales teams.

    22. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by matuscak · · Score: 1

      We've still got a number of DEC Venturis 133Mhz Pentium systems on our manufacturing floor. They are now running Thinstation, talking RDP to Windows terminal servers. The things are built like a tank and they still work great.

    23. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by operagost · · Score: 1

      DEC did eventually make a business PC-compatible line (DECpc) and PC server line. The PC servers used the same SBB disks as the Alphas and VAXen. They also made a Starion line for home use.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    24. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by _xeno_ · · Score: 1

      Anyone remember "SCRAM"?

      I remember it: it was the second video game I ever played, and the first one in color. The first game was LADDER on the DEC Rainbow. (I would have been like four at the time.)

      Unfortunately there don't seem to be any DEC Rainbow emulators out there, meaning that all those old Rainbow games (...both of them...) are lost to time, I guess.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    25. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by anegg · · Score: 1

      The MicroVAX ran the same VMS operating system as all of the other VAXes. There were processor differences; bigger processors implemented most instructions in hardware, while smaller/cheaper processors would have software routines for more arcane and less likely-to-be-used instructions. One of the benefits of the VAX computer line was that the same software ran on the entire line, all the way from the tiny MicroVAX up the the big 9xxx VAXes. Another benefit was the 4 modes of processor operation (user mode, supervisor mode, executive mode, and kernel mode) with a tightly controlled method to change to a more powerful enhanced processor mode. Couple that with a virtual memory operating system (VMS), huge linear address space (4 GB was big in 1978), symmetric instruction set, and you had a great system.

    26. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by glaqua · · Score: 1

      Well, they did get some product placement, It was a DEC rainbow on Janine's desk in Ghostbusters http://www.starringthecomputer.com/feature.php?f=53

    27. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Locutus · · Score: 1

      they maybe didn't run OS/2 on everything but did run SOM( System Object Model ) applications on AIX and possibly others. They were trying to find a common application layer and they were moving to SOM and toward OpenDOC when Java took the industry by storm. They also shipped a PC running OS/2 with some of their mainframes from what I heard since it was the control or console admin device.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    28. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by cusco · · Score: 1

      Had a boss who had managed a herd of VAXen (can't believe I haven't seen that phrase yet in this thread) for years. She said, "Greatest engineers in the computer industry, worst salesmen in any industry." Salescritters couldn't be bothered to return her calls, so she would end up going to the engineers, getting the info from them, get pricing from the billing office, cut a PO and fax it in. Then the sales staff would complain about her and the engineers 'bypassing' them. The second time that happened she told him to shut up and take the engineers out to lunch on his entirely un-earned commission.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    29. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of those "'companies' [which are] stagnating ... in Russia" is actually in headquartered in Ukraine, with significant operations in the UK and Ireland.

      An-124s are commonly seen at Stanstead airport near London, in the UK; more of them, and the An-225 are seen regularly at Luton, another airport not too far from London.

    30. Re:DEC scared IBM in the 80's by nobodie · · Score: 1

      Do NOT fly Russian planes, they are scary.

      On boarding a friend of mine flying from Bangkok was told by the stewardess that everyone had to remove all their carry-on from the overhead bins for takeoff. WTF he thought. As the plane took off the cabin shook so badly that not only did he fear for his life, all the compartment doors flew open, anything in the overhead bins would have fallen out on passenger's heads. Slick.

      Another friend traveled on a flight from Bangkok to Moscow, she was the only woman on board and the other passengers all looked (and were) badly beaten. Two weeks of Pattaya bars softened them up for the flight home. She got off in Delhi and vowed never again.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  7. The biggest little company in the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Happy days,

    We had the easynet, Dec's internal network, and we did Notes conferencing. I remember trying to explain to people about sitting stateside, dealing with my UK email and getting blank looks. Then we had a notes conference called 'the house' where each topic was someone's room. It felt pioneering back then in the 80's.

    You could ask for help on the net, and get help. Then they grew too fast and brought in middle managers who blocked innovation.

    We built some great things, global systems with cluster failover, self healing networks, global sync waves, bleeding edge leading edge database technology, all on VMS which was truly elegant.

    That's when I really learnt how to build stuff.

    Ken used to have a stuffed beaver in his office (now now) chewing a tree, the tree represented IBM.

    I remember him acknowledging his biggest commercial mistake, which was when Bell Labs offered him Unix for free if he would only support it.

    Goodbye Ken

    1. Re:The biggest little company in the world. by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      VMS which was truly elegant

      VMS is still very much alive and kicking. It is running on modern Itanium hardware, it is still fully supported by HP, and will continue to be supported for many years to come.

      It has support for IPv6, and it's as elegant (and inscrutable) as ever.

      You can even get personal use licenses for free if you have the hardware to run it.

    2. Re:The biggest little company in the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ken used to have a stuffed beaver in his office (now now)

      now, now...? I've heard stories, from numerous, reliable sources, of what DEC(at least in MA) was like... People were getting it on on desks after hours, in conference rooms whenever, in the parking lot, everywhere... "stuffed beaver" indeed...

    3. Re:The biggest little company in the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, the Mill was good times... People smoking downstairs, with the smoke rising through the floorboards... River water seeping in... Rats and bugs, secret passages, and promiscuous engineers... Good times...

    4. Re:The biggest little company in the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, got any details on the Bell Labs offer?

    5. Re:The biggest little company in the world. by ArtFart · · Score: 0

      Ah, yes....The Mill. I got to visit the place, when the university department I worked for was trying to decide to buy a PDP11-45 about six months before its official release. I walked in the door wearing nearly new shoes with Neolite soles, and promptly did a pratfall on the oiled floor. Everyone (including the salesman I came in with) applauded. DEC once ran an ad in the trade rags, showing The Mill's ancient, battle-scarred, graffiti-festooned loading dock door. The caption read, "Please visit us in beautiful downtown Maynard". The story has it that whoever dreamed up the ad was fired.

    6. Re:The biggest little company in the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they grew too fast and brought in middle managers who blocked innovation.

      This is happening at AMD now... every other month there's a new director of something or other. all the old DEC people are shaking their heads...

  8. stolen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intel stole DEC's designs to make the pentium. It's a sad world.

    1. Re:stolen by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I thought that was the Itanium.

    2. Re:stolen by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Nope, it was the Pentium. They eventually settled, in a deal that included Intel buying DEC's StrongARM division, which was eventually sold again to Marvell. Intel killed the Alpha by promising that Itanium would be faster and cheaper, so UNIX vendors could concentrate on the software and integration and share the CPU R&D cost by letting Intel design and produce the chips (PA-RISC died the same way).

      Steve Jobs is Eldon Tyrell. Steve Wozniak is JF Sebastian.

      I really hope that's not a reference to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. I think a lot of people would take offence at Woz being described as intellectually subnormal (a 'chickenhead' in the book's parlance).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:stolen by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I really hope that's not a reference to Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. I think a lot of people would take offence at Woz being described as intellectually subnormal (a 'chickenhead' in the book's parlance).

      JF had to be good for Tyrell to play chess with him. I reckon that while Tyrell had vision, up there in his pyramid, playing with toys like Rachel, he needed JF to build things, hence the chess games as a way of keeping in touch.

    4. Re:stolen by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Ah, you're referring to Blade Runner. In Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, JF and Tyrell don't know each other. JF is a truck driver for a fake animal repair company, who accidentally kills a real cat because the owner calls him out thinking he's a real vet (the repair company vans look like vets' vans so the owner's neighbours won't know that the animal is fake) and he can't tell that it's real so he plugs it into the recharge socket and electrocutes it. Driving a truck is about the only job that someone with his low intellect can do, and he manages to mess that up in a way that's expensive to his employers. He can't emigrate to Mars, because chickenheads can't get a visa. He empathises with the androids because he's treated in a similar way to them by normal humans. They don't empathise with him, because they're not capable of doing so.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:stolen by cusco · · Score: 1

      No, it was Compaq who killed the Alpha. DEC had an office in Redmond that was porting Windows 2000 Server to the Alpha, running parallel to the (much larger) Intel effort. NT had been rock-stable on the Alpha and I was told that they hadn't run into any show stoppers when the Compaq purchase came in. Compaq had such a large investment in Intel architecture that they couldn't see any reason to essentially compete with themselves so they shut both the Win2k effort and then the entire Alpha program down. Damn, we were running NT 3.51 on a 500 mhz Alpha when the next-fastest server in the entire company was a P166 (which crashed every other month). There are plenty of reasons to loathe Eckhard Pfeiffer, but that's top of my list.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  9. I do miss DEC by ausrob · · Score: 1

    Compaq really killed DEC after the takeover. Such a pity because I used to refurb ex-government PCs, and I can tell you the old Digitals were WAY better than Compaqs, HPs or any other competition. Farewell to Mr Olsen, it is a shame his legacy doesn't live on in his memory.

    1. Re:I do miss DEC by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Compaq really killed DEC after the takeover.

      We'll see what's left over from Sun in a few years, after Larry Ellison is finished with it. After the Compaq takeover, I met some former DEC employees, who were then Compaq employees, in a hotel on a business trip. After a few drinks, they had some blunt advice: "If your company gets taken over by another company, quit as soon as you can, and get a job somewhere else. Takeovers always end in tears."

      I am still scratching my head over how DEC ended that way: from being the heavyweight champion in the Unix server business, to being taken over by a PC company. Maybe I'll have to Google for a good book with insightful analysis. Or if any folks here can recommend anything, I'm all ears.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:I do miss DEC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can vouch for Digital, too. In 2004, my then-employer decommissioned a bone-stock Digital 486 EISA machine with a Wavelan card in it running Netware 4.1 doing wireless routing. It had been in continuous operation since the early 90s with no issues at all.

  10. Thanks for the career Ken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Rest in peace Ken. Your DEC gear introduced me to computing. It changed my career path and it's enriched my life more than anything else I can think of. I wish I'd had the chance to say so in person. I still have a PDP-11 running RSX-11. I might run it for a little while this afternoon.

        Jeff

    1. Re:Thanks for the career Ken by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      Yes I have a DEC 3000 alpha server here. One of these days I want to find out if it really will make a good boat anchor. One thing I remember about the PDP 11/84s is that the electronics vastly outlasted the rubber padding inside the top cover of the CPU box. The rubber turned to dust and fell on to the backplane. This was okay until you re-seated a card, then the dust fell into the slots and you had to vacuum the whole thing out.

      I have fond memories of lying prone under an 11/84 with a wire wrap tool in my hand trying to get the interrupt logic correct for a CSCI card. Of course I pulled out the leg extensions on the rack first. I'm not suicidal or anything.

  11. Rest in peace man by bazmail · · Score: 1

    Sad indeed. The first computer i ever used was a vax running vms (a model 220). I'll never forget the time i was taught how to knock other terminals offline using the phone program, or send ascii art via "facsimile". Best of times. Rest in Peace Ken.

    1. Re:Rest in peace man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean you used a VT220 terminal to access VMS running on the VAX.

    2. Re:Rest in peace man by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Yeah that had me puzzled for a bit. The IT department where I used to work would stick bar codes on to a VT240 because it had two parts and must be a computer, but they left a VT320 alone because that was just a "monitor". My hands ache at the thought of a VT100. Horrible keyboard.

    3. Re:Rest in peace man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The VT320 also had a separate keyboard. The last VT terminal with a fixed keyboard was the VT52.

    4. Re:Rest in peace man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VT62 much? Just kidding, nobody did.

  12. What he did we take for granted today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well -- or not really. We are still catching up in the services virtualization department. Cloud services are coming close (with about 100x..1000x as much useless bloat between the user and the iron, mind you).

  13. Beginnings have Ends by Bucc5062 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I went off to college I thought I'd grow up to be a physicist. I loved the science, but half way through the first semester I was discovering that physics was not working for me. Struggling with calculus I was directed to a room filled with what I thought were tv screens. They were monitors hooked to a PDP 11/45 which had just been installed at the school, replacing the IBM mainframe.

    In that moment, sitting in front of that terminal and working my first program, I fell in love with computers. I loved how I could imagine something, then create it. Working on the PDP introduced me to the mini world, programming, and my career. While never knowing the man, the mind that conceived and created the DEC PDP family will be one I certainly honor and respect.

    --
    Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
    1. Re:Beginnings have Ends by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Wipe your tears away. You are not alone. That's how so many of us came to ruin our lives.

      Damn you, DEC!

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    2. Re:Beginnings have Ends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what year was yr 1st semester, bucc??? i carried a stack of IBM cards around in archt sch,,,programming w/fortran & cobol (c.1975) --- medieval times.

  14. Except that VMS was rock solid, NT - not so much by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    Something obviously got lost in the translation to x86.

  15. RIP Ken by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

    My first exposure to computer programming was on a PDP-8. Later, during summers at grad school, I was fortunate to get a job at the DEC plant in Westfield. It was a great place to work, and I was able to buy scrap parts from which I built up a video terminal which I used for several years.

    1. Re:RIP Ken by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      A well deserved rest. That man did so much for so long.

      Loved that PDP-8. We ran mumps on it back in the 70's in a lab. Loved coding away on it.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  16. Real engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mourn the passing of the man, as well as the engineering ethos he inspired, even in far flung Reading where I worked.

  17. Buried face down nine edge first?? by RobertLTux · · Score: 2

    Im thinking that he would be one of the last folks this would apply to.

    Of course there is a problem of the shrinking number of folks that will get the reference also.

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    1. Re:Buried face down nine edge first?? by Temkin · · Score: 1

      Except, he founded DEC. The Hollerith card is an IBM invention, dating back to the late 20's.

    2. Re:Buried face down nine edge first?? by __aagujc9792 · · Score: 1

      I happen to be gravitationally challenged, you insensitive clod! Neither "shrink" nor "edge" apply to me. But my very first IT job was running a card sorter....

    3. Re:Buried face down nine edge first?? by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Ken was more of an ASCII guy than EBCDIC. He's probably fanfolded.

  18. Elegance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The PDP-11 register architecture and instruction set had an elegance that you just don't see in tech any more.

    It's a shame DEC didn't pioneer the PC: no-one would accuse Intel of elegance.

    1. Re:Elegance by DCFusor · · Score: 1
      Hear, Hear -- and when motorola more or less copied it in the 68k, it was a cause of much joy and overpromising in software -- but we all know where that finally went with the fruit company. I worked with 68ks in a beltway bandit company long before the things publicly existed, and they were nice -- so I had some experience before the fruit guys got their hands on them. In fact, I still have a few in gold topped ceramic DIP chips, huge things for the 10mhz they then had as a top speed.
      .

      Now if you want that nice, orthogonal architecture, you have to go with the semi-obsolete TI TMS320C30 line (which does it all in floating point too, and all in parallel). I used that one in some major telephony projects, including the only non-TI/Telogy (at the time) VOIP implementation. It had enough spare horsepower for us to have the very best one -- seamless audio stretching during dropped packets, all kinds of goodies. It made the company I developed it for a ton of dough -- it's out in the wild under various other brand names now.

      Nice thing about all those, which was rarely used, but still cool, is that since the PC was one of the GP registers (as was the stack pointer) one could write position independent code, no fancy linker or loader needed. Just drop it anyplace in memory and call it, done -- with the data position independent too. Pretty cool, but then fancier memory management came around and slowed down all processors using it by adding at least a lookup if not some arithmetic to every single memory access.

      Now, some people thought the PDP-8 instruction set was elegant too -- certainly was simple and easy to learn (abbreviated from the bigger PDP15's and PDP-10's). If you want that now, you get a PIC from Microchip -- very close, right down the the conditional skip instructions. So, a lot of the good DEC stuff never really died.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
  19. The VAX by Alioth · · Score: 1

    Back in my school days, we used to talk about the mythical VAX in hushed tones, due to its awesomeness (at least we thought so). I never really used one in anger, they were already on their way out by the time I left school and went to university, but the uni still had a VAX cluster (on which we were forced to write COBOL, which soured the experience somewhat).

    I actaully have a small VAX now, something I take to vintage computing shows and use as a fileserver for a network of Sinclair Spectrums...

  20. yes, taken for granted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ken did not seek out fame for his work. He was focused on the company and its products. I believe he had the distinction at the time as the longest reigning founder/CEO of a Fortune 1000 company. Dan is so right about his contributions being taken for granted.

    brian

  21. VAX 6000 Clusters by draggin_fly · · Score: 1

    My grad school ran a cluster of VAX 6000s and I was lucky enough to get to work in the IT department. I wrote code for our gopher server. The cluster was so dependable that users never, in 6 years, realized that the parts of the cluster ever went down. Our system uptime was amazing - far better than any Windows cluster I've seen today despite the VMS/VAX cluster technology ending up in Windows NT.

  22. Inspiration by eyenot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm super inspired by the math. He was 31 when he founded his company. All we ever seem to hear about are the impossible situations of being born into wealth, stalking through the ivy league, founding a government funded start-up by age 18, (having the 'rents boot the bill for) article of incorporation at age 20 and being (due to the misled, ignorant millions) in charge of some pointless "dot-com" by 23-25. Here we have an innovator who saw an inroad at a certain date -- he could have been in his 40's or 50's when it happened but he got "lucky" -- and followed it, carried through with his idea using determination and resolve, saw his vision fulfilled and had the fun he predicted he would in elbowing aside giants like IBM. It could happen to anybody! The economy doesn't need to be in the shitter. Anybody can go back to college, re-socialize, swing and actually hit the ball, sometimes out of the park. That's something that will never, ever, ever be heard of again in a country that allows itself to lapse into one (1) complete generation of Gimme-Jobber clones. We're mere fractions away from being in that exact, dire situation, and right now is probably our last chance at a strong economy with our independence intact. We have to do like Ken Olson, stop trying to "look for a job", stop trying to compete-by-rote (dislodge the 24/7 vee-dee-yo holo-game controller implant) and relearn to socialize and do sound business with integrity and grit. Our country is turning into a bunch of antisocial, passive-aggressive fucktards with chips on their shoulders and not even the brains to know what the fuck they're such douchebags for in the first place, with tarnished, discount-antique-store, silver spoons up their asses. A bunch of whiney fucking nobodies looking up to Hollywoodization as the key to all knowledge, more film-reel upstairs than just plain real.

    --
    "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
    1. Re:Inspiration by operagost · · Score: 1

      You must be one of those crazy, racist tea partiers!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  23. the founder of Route 128 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Back in the heyday of the "Massachusetts Miracle" ('80s), road signs bragged: "Route 128, America's Technology Highway". I think it started with Lincoln Labs, and MIT was the big feeder school (Harvard really came into play much later, when Zuckerman came along), but Olsen gave it the big push. Wave after wave of minicomputer and workstation startups sprung up around Route 128 and I-495 (beltways around Boston), often founded or staffed by ex-Digital engineers, starting with Data General. Many achieved substantial success, with annual revenue running into hundreds of millions or more. Lots of them adopted DEC's blueprint for success: a soup-to-nuts system with a proprietary stack of hardware and system software, maintaining backward compatibility with application software in successive generations, all the better to ensure customer lock-in. All developed in one location, or a nearby set of locations, often converted mill buildings. The staff would be mostly guys in their twenties and thirties who worked 60-100 hour weeks trying to get a big score from their stock options, often in competition with a similar venture-funded outfit down the street staffed by friends and former coworkers. The founder would be a legendary engineer's engineer who also had the vision, stamina, and leadership ability to call both the business and technical shots.

    At the end of the '80s, the recession clobbered Massachusetts even worse than the rest of the country. Many tech companies went out of business, and savvy customers learned to appreciate vendors that adapted a more open architecture, pioneered by Sun Microsystems in Silicon Valley. The "Technology Highway" signs quietly came down. DEC in particular was squeezed by Sun's move into server computing (the client/server paradigm was just taking hold at that time) and by increasingly powerful personal computers running Novell's Netware, IBM's OS/2, or (eventually) Microsoft's Windows NT. The PC revolution had caught Olsen as flat-footed as IBM had once been by DEC. By this time, DEC's autocratic culture had become a liability: as Lotus' non-engineer CEO Jim Manzi once remarked, DEC had a "Ken says" culture. "Unless 'Ken says' something, it doesn't get done", said Manzi. The new generation of competitors was more nimble.

  24. And remember, children: If it's not 36 bits... by Suzuran · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...you're not playing with a full DEC!
    PDP-10 into eternity!
    ----
    @info ver
    Bamboo Forest of the Lost, Eientei TOPS-20 Monitor 7.1(21733)
    PANDA TOPS-20 Command processor 7.1(4453)-4
    @systat
    Tue 8-Feb-2011 07:43:09  Up 1958:51:50!
    0+9 Jobs   Load av   0.03   0.01   0.01

    No operator in attendance

  25. A real gentleman by ArmchairAstronomer · · Score: 2

    I was fortunate enough to meet the man a few times during my short stay at DEC in the 80's. He was very gracious, intelligent and committed to the company. Ken was on the Ford Motor Company Board of Directors so he came to Detroit fairly often. I remember at one point he gave Henry Ford II a Rainbow PC and one of the guys I worked with had to go install it at the Duce's mansion. Henry gave Ken an Escort station-wagon which he drove for several years. Rest in Peace Ken.

    1. Re:A real gentleman by operagost · · Score: 1

      That Escort wagon must be the one he lost in the parking lot (see comment near the top of the page)!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  26. It's true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    'Ken Olsen is in the elite club of tech founders w/Gates & Jobs, and set the stage for them. What he did we take for granted today.'"

    It's true. even open source started on or because of gear DEC gear. BSD in '74 on a PDP, GNU in the 80s because of a PDP model being discontinued, TeX was born on a PDP, X Windows has its roots in project Athena (with which DEC was involved in) and made its first appearance on the MicroVAX, which in turn also introduced Kerberos, and was a huge influence on thin computing, LDAP and even instant messaging.

    UNIX was originally developed on/for a DEC PDP-7. VAX gave birth to VMS (VMS in turn has the basis for Windows NT's design). The PDP-11's design is cited as being what influenced Motorolla's 68k, C was written for the sake of taking advantage of the PDP-11's functionality, digital music was born on the PDP-1, The Alpha EV5 was the first microprocessor to employ a large L2 cache, the EV7 was the first to have an on-chip menory controller, .

    The magnitude of DEC contributions is indeed taken for granted. Olsen will be missed.

  27. Great Company In Its Heyday by mangusman · · Score: 1

    As a former employee of DEC ('79-'95), I can tell you it was a great company to work for. DEC's overall management philosophy was and is still the standard I measure other managers to, and sadly, most can't even compare. Did Ken Olsen make mistakes? Sure he did. He didn't put a lot value in marketing his products, and it cost him dearly. And DEC *was* building PCs before they were in vogue. But again, they weren't marketed (and really weren't aimed at home users), but the Robin, DECmate, Pro350 were all PCs built before their time. RIP Ken.

  28. R.I.P. Ken Olsen by new+death+barbie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked at DEC for over a decade, in the 70's and early 80's and was there when he was forced out. The company was very much built around his charisma -- he was a big man, unassuming, but very charismatic -- and even in remote field offices, every new employee would soon know who the president of the company was, and hear a few stories about how he embarrassed one of the local sales reps by speaking too bluntly to a customer. Unless you were in sales, these were considered proof the President was a good guy, one of "us".

    Once I had the good fortune to be able to visit the Mill, in Maynard, Mass, with a few others on training. On Friday when the class let out early, we wandered the complex (it was a campus of interconnected buildings), visiting the clock tower, and asking people where Ken Olsen's offices were.

    Well, we found the executive offices, and tentatively asked one of the secretaries, which was Ken's. She pointed it out, and then, to our horror, picked up the phone and asked if he would come out and meet us. Son of a bitch, he did. He took the time to come out and shake our hands and speak to us lowly field employees, and he seemed as interested in meeting us as we were to meet the man himself.

    When he left, it wasn't the same company. DEC had some serious marketing challenges at the time, granted, but I don't think many appreciate the technology it had. VMS in the 80s was a better operating system than any flavor of Unix, today. You could write programs with modules in C, Fortran, Cobol, Basic, or just about any other language, mix and match, and the architecture supported that. VMSclusters in the 80's were far easier to configure and run, and more functional than any Unix cluster I've seen today. The Alpha architecture had legs for twenty years, maybe more.

    I was sorry to hear about your passing Ken, and I know heaven has a place for you.

    --

    It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.

    1. Re:R.I.P. Ken Olsen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>> VMS in the 80s was a better operating system than any flavor of Unix, today.
      >>> You could write programs with modules in C, Fortran, Cobol, Basic, or just about any other language, mix and match, and the architecture supported that.

      I hope that someday, linking loaders and portable compilers are invented for Unix, and even Windows :-)

    2. Re:R.I.P. Ken Olsen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When he left, it wasn't the same company. DEC had some serious marketing challenges at the time, granted, but I don't think many appreciate the technology it had. VMS in the 80s was a better operating system than any flavor of Unix, today. You could write programs with modules in C, Fortran, Cobol, Basic, or just about any other language, mix and match, and the architecture supported that. VMSclusters in the 80's were far easier to configure and run, and more functional than any Unix cluster I've seen today. The Alpha architecture had legs for twenty years, maybe more.

      Mr. Olsen was a kind, and honorable gentleman. I only met him briefly in passing, while at training like the previous poster.

      DEC certainly had its problems; for several years prior to his departure a large number of us (DEC customers) kept trying to lobby and pressure for them to actually MARKET VMS and their own products instead of becoming yet another organ donor to the microsoft behemoth. To no avail. Sadly when "G.Q." Palmer and his haughty, fancy airs took over, his clear and only intention was to dismantle DEC and sell it. The computing world is a poorer place as a result.

      A side note: once while traveling for work in California I stopped at a cafe for lunch and some research and email catchup on their wifi; the next table had a couple of Google employees. A conversation was struck up, and when they asked what I did, I told them we still sold and supported VMS systems; they wanted to know why I was still working on 'that dinosaur'. Serendipity, fate, can't say. The Google search I just entered popped up the 'unknown server error, please try again' screen. I showed it to them and said "Because to our VMS customers, something like this is unacceptable". Heh.

      Thanks Mr. Olsen. My career may now be descending into the inconsistent, unnecessarily complex and ugly world of wintel thuggery, but for many years I had the opportunity to work with the very best.

    3. Re:R.I.P. Ken Olsen by SocPres · · Score: 1

      I hope that someday, linking loaders and portable compilers are invented for Unix, and even Windows :-)

      How's about Oracle using DEC's precompilers (that they stole/bought) for database access to create linkable modules for SQL code? Brilliant! And yet unused. :(

    4. Re:R.I.P. Ken Olsen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm a VMS sysadmin now and started as an operator back in the 11/780 days.

      I open O/S support tickets with HP support 2-4 times/year.

      Every time I'm on on the phone I can tell who worked for DEC and who never did. I can tell just by the tone in their voice.

      I always give the DEC folks kudos. They know their doodoo and I think that reflects the culture that Mr. Olsen cast across the company. Even better, they know they know their doodoo. Compare that with a worker-drone in Bangledesh that's reading a script.

      I'll always remember talking to a DEC support rep at 2am and him saying "Do this..." and me saying "But I thought...." and him responding with "I don't care... Just do it...". So I said yes sir and did it... :)

      The only company going these days that has even a remote shadow of the support that DEC provided is Cisco. "Press 1 if you have a network down emergency."

      It would sure be nice if all of our support vendors took that line of reasoning.

      Thanks to Mr. Olsen for instilling that level of dedication.

  29. My FIRST hands on computer by Gim+Tom · · Score: 1

    Back in the late 1960's as an undergraduate Rambling Wreck I took a class that gave me hands on access to a PDP8i. It was my first exposure to assembly programming (I still have the books) and after that I was hooked. I am retired now, after a pretty good 40 year run. But I am still learning new languages and platforms, just because I am STILL hooked. Thanks Mr. Olsen for an interesting life. It has been fun.

  30. PDP/Vaxen by fwingo · · Score: 1

    I cut my teeth on PDP 11-70s and a Vax 11/780 running BSD back in '83. The Vax had a sky floating point board and custom wire wrapped 32 bit frame buffer called the BB (Big Buffer). Dec hardware running BSD was a great development environment.

  31. ken by dmallery · · Score: 2

    i spent 13 years writing about dec in decpro and rstspro magazines.

    i often was critical. ken never failed to greet me and was ever gracious.

    i think of him rolling out his g4 at bedford.

    fare foward, ken

    dave mallery

  32. Thank You by kernelcache · · Score: 2

    Thank you for giving us a shoulder to stand on.

  33. Similar by whoda · · Score: 1

    I played my first game of Dungeons & Dragons at the DEC office in Quad Cities, Iowa.

    It was quite the experience for a little kid.

  34. I mourn the alpha chip by plopez · · Score: 1

    DEC had been working on the Alpha for a number years, from all reports a "world beater" in high performance chip. DEC was sold to Compaq which was bought by HP. HP had a close relationship with Intel, which was working their own high end chip the Itanium. By all reports the Alpha was much better than the Itanium. HP transferred the Alpha technology to Intel in exchange for some deals on chips and marketing. That's the last anyone heard of the Alpha.

    Meanwhile the Itanium, dubbed the iTanic, sank. Here an article from VC on the latest developments on the iTanic front: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/05/microsoft_pulls_plug_itanium/

    Bummer.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:I mourn the alpha chip by sasami · · Score: 1

      HP transferred the Alpha technology to Intel in exchange for some deals on chips and marketing. That's the last anyone heard of the Alpha.

      Though, like many other DEC innovations, we continue to benefit from Alpha today. The next-generation Alpha EV8 was the first chip to implement SMT (hyperthreading). There was an internal legend as to how that came about: rumor was that the chip folks said to the compiler folks, "Hey, we just built an 8-issue processor," to which they responded, "Are you kidding? We can't optimize for that." So they thought for a while and decided to just let the CPU run four threads at once.

      Such a pity. The chip was nearly finished when Compaq sold the whole thing to Intel, which promptly canceled it.

      Meanwhile the Itanium, dubbed the iTanic, sank.

      It was sunk out of the gate. HP grudgingly shipped various revisions of the Alpha EV7 for several years... and if you believe the tech tabloids, Alpha was so much faster than Itanic that HP declared that "not one Alpha benchmark will be released until the Itanium platform(s) is/are faster".

      --
      Freedom is not the license to do what we like, it is the power to do what we ought.
  35. Olsen's own staff turned on him, and killed DEC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ken Olsen was an engineer's engineer, and he built a company that was based on innovative engineering and run by engineers.

    DEC had 64-bit computing, virtual memory and virtual address extension, and dozens of other things we take for granted today literally twenty years before the competition! I worked routinely on inexpensive 64-bit machines in the 1980s, machines that simultaneously ran TCP/IP, SPX/IPX, LAT, and DECnet on the same wires, supporting 400 end users and huge databases with less processing power than you find on an nVidia card nowadays.

    Sadly, the marketing and professional management people at DEC turned on Olsen, and engineered a financial crisis that allowed his ouster. Admittedly, those people were treated badly by Olsen, who viewed salesmen as a necessary evil and never really hid his opinion that business people were less valuable that the engineers and programmers. However, the salesforce rebellion was self-defeating, because from there the company entered a death spiral, as the bean counters' failure to maintain Olsen's unique corporate culture drove the top brains away to Microsoft (see wikipedia's entry on Cutler), Intel, Sun and Oracle.

    After the disastrous Microsoft settlement, and the equally disastrous tech giveaway to Intel, DEC lost software and hardware primacy, and without Olsen at the helm the ship ran aground. A sad end to a mighty force for innovation; parted out to the highest bidder.

    Goodbye, Ken. You were a good man, and it was an honor to have known you; I'll never forget you.

  36. My First Computer Language, DEC-FORTRAN VI by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    DEC 10, VAX, PDP, DEC-FORTRAN, DEC-COBOL, "Batch Processing", "Menu Driven Systems", "Modular Programming" once graced my resume. And all because of DEC.

  37. Re:Except that VMS was rock solid, NT - not so muc by Massacrifice · · Score: 1

    While you can criticize Windows all you want for the baroque Win32 API and it's assorted GUI and userland tools, there's no denying that the kernel itself is quite robust. In fourteen years (since NT 4.0), I've never seen a Windows machine crash that wasn't due to faulty hardware or bad third party drivers, a lord knows I've seen, used and setup a LOT of Windows boxen. For the amount of features and hardware it supports, I think it is an achievement that deserves more respect than it gets.

    That's where I recognize the DEC engineering talent.

    --
    -- Home is where you eat your heart out.
  38. Re:Except that VMS was rock solid, NT - not so muc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something obviously got lost in the translation to x86.

    Mr Cutler's departure was not seen as a bad thing by everyone inside Digital. He did not always agree with the need for backwards compatibility and the need for old applications and peripherals to remains working despite upgrading the OS.

  39. airplane industry choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I look at the passenger airplane industry, there are only two choices: Airbus or Boeing. I would welcome more competition, from say, Japan or Russia. Russia!?!?! Well, their Soyuz is the only way to get into space now, so they could probably be able to build good passenger airplanes.

    You've obviously not flown on a russian made Tupolev plane... I flew in many of these in China in the 80's (before china started buying real planes from boeing), and let me tell you I'm glad to be alive...

    Although I'm a boeing fan, I'll fly on Airbus. But give me a brazilian embraer or a canadair/bombardier over any russian made plane

  40. Why not upgrade to BSD unix on the VAX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By the time Vaxen were on their way out, most schools I knew converted them over to run BSD-Unix...
    Using them to read net-news and coding for them was just fine (and sure beat COBOL on VMS). People even ran emacs on it (although I'm a VI guy myself)...

  41. I was there by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

    I worked for DEC from 1977 till 1980. I left for warmer pastures (took a job in Florida) it would be a few more years before DEC would hit hard times. I think their biggest mistake was in not building a PC like machine. The Rainbow was just a "me too" machine, and not very well marketed. They could have boxed up their 11/70 on a chip (JAWS) into a killer machine that would have blown the AT away, and later on the VLSI VAX as well, but desktop versions of these super-minis never saw the light of day. Their upper and lower end rotted out from them leaving their networking and storage products as the only crown jewels (which Compaq purchased them for).

    The Mill was a wild place to work. With multiple buildings on a hillside interconnected by bridges you could walk out of the 3rd floor on one building and into the 2nd floor on the next. They were constantly reworking the 100 year old brick structures. One weekend they were sandblasting 100 years of grime from the walls in our building and forgot to tell the lab personal about the plans. If we had known the computers would have been shut down and wrapped in plastic to protect them. We came back on Monday to find the disk drives choked with blasting sand and brick dust with all the heads crashed! It was a good thing everything had just been backed up onto magtape!

    The millpond was referred to as an old computer graveyard. Rumor had it that someone had tossed a PDP8 and an old PDP1 out the window into the pond years ago. Maybe someday the pond will be drained and the old computers will emerge from the mucky bottom.

    Ken Olsen might have been CEO but he never drove a fancy car. He came to work in an old VW Beetle while I was working there. Several times someone got called to the security office for taking Ken's parking spot by accident!

  42. My career started with a PDP by gregben · · Score: 1

    I was way, way behind in 10th grade math, so my Dad hired a local college professor to tutor me. This was in 1972. The professor set me up with an account on the college's time-sharing hookup to Long Island University's DEC PDP-8. I spent many a night over at the college sitting at the ASR-33 teletype working on programs I dreamed up in Dartmouth BASIC. When I wanted to make a long program listing, I'd get it started, then run around the outside of the building a couple of times while it chugged away at 10 CPS. When I got home I'd unroll the listing onto the living room floor and lie down and debug/improve the program by making notes in the margins.
    Thanks Dad, and thanks Dr. Melter.

  43. Worked for DEC, badge #48818 by DCFusor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    And loved it. It was a fantastic place to work (I had the DC area, then Mid-Atlantic support).
    .

    My Dad bought me a used PDP-8S, then a "straight 8" which were my first computers, a good bit before these newfangled microchips, and this is what I learned programming on, while also engineering my own peripherals. In fact, I wound up cancelling a charter subscription to Byte because they kept dissing the things, which at the time were a ton faster and better than any microchip. They were actually pretty nice machines, with a read-modify-write able to happen in one core cycle, and later when Silconix attempted a chip version, they were never able to get it as fast as the original, with that nifty Diode-Capacitor-Diode logic (which could create things like and gates where both the inputs didn't have to be there simultaneously as long as they were close enough).

    I met Kenny, and he was a righteous dude, actually. The occasion was I was up in Mass taking a course on some new hardware, and talking in the company lunchroom to some Aussies at the table, who turned out to be buyers from some big retail outfit, and we were discussing the merits of this or that DEC product. At the time, the VAX was new, untested, a little flakey, and not as fast as a PDP-11/70 (particularly if the latter was maxed out) but cost more, so I steered them that way -- which would have (did) cost DEC some revenue, but they were nice guys, and it was the correct choice for them in their situation.

    Kenny was standing behind me the whole time -- he'd come to the lunchroom to invite them to private talks in his office. Talk about my heart dropping into my gut -- this was my first really good job, and I'd just dissed the company's new flagship product to a very important customer, while the CEO was standing behind me.

    Kenny grinned and shook my hand, and complimented me for being an honest guy, saying that was what DEC was all about, thanked me for helping promote that image! Soon after, *I* was promoted to Mid Atlantic support, one of the better jobs DEC had (free everything, expenses, flights on helicopters, full authority to make field-expedient decisions, all very nice).

    That job was the basis of my career from then on. At that point I knew everyone big enough to be in computers at all (including the then-new ARPA and that crazy arpanet thing, node in Arlington) -- crap-tons of good contacts, and I never actually had to look for work ever again after that. From one beltway bandit to the next, to starting and running my own company with a nice customer list, that was what started it all.

    We'll miss you Kenny, and my heartfelt condolences to the rest of the family. You weren't always right, but you were always good -- and that counts for more in my book.

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    1. Re:Worked for DEC, badge #48818 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for sharing, brought a tear to the eye.

  44. DEC pyramid? by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    I remember at work (1980s) of a kneehigh DEC machine with a plexiglass pyramid on top, as if this machine had mystical powers. Most likely pyramid was to prevent people from stacking paperwork on top which could eventually smother the DEC causing it to overheat.

    Ironic to see this article after another, "Sony Lawyers Expand Dragnet, Targeting Anybody Posting PS3 Hack." Illustrates back in 20th century made their fortunes building more powerful machines in order to make good money. Now it seems they want to make their fortunes sueing the hell out of the masses.

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  45. favored platform for UNIX: "Linux of the 80s" by peter303 · · Score: 1

    DEC made mid-size computers that individual labs or departments could afford, thus being independent of suffocating central corporate or university computing centesr. And UNIX was the favorite operating system of DEC PDP-11s and Vaxen because it was easier to use and modifiable. It was a very similar hacker's environment as Linux would became later for personal computers.

  46. A Career Highlight by ellbee · · Score: 1

    DEC was ten great years of my life. Ken built a company from nothing into something huge, then ran it into the ground. Technological highlights like networking (including a mobile pre-cursor to WiFi), StrongARM, and Alpha; marketing tragedies like "Unix is snake oil" and an unswerving allegiance to VMS. Let's not remember him for funding the VAX 9000.

    Ken built an international engineering-driven culture of people that firmly believed in "doing right for the customer" and would go out of their way to get it done. You could pick up the phone and dial strangers for help and more often than not they would come through without politics or me-first posturing - an attitude that came straight from the top. I really miss it.

    The architecture lives on at http://simh.trailing-edge.com/

    --

    You can't fight in here - this is the war room!

  47. DEC in the family by squidflakes · · Score: 2

    Warning: Long Winded, and more about personal catharsis than insightful commentary. My mom worked at DEC and the DEC portions of Compaq and HP for a little over 20 years. She was one of the first women to be a field engineer in the company and she always made it a point to let everyone know that at DEC she was treated like an Engineer, not a pair of tits that knew how to program. Growing up, there was always a terminal and a few microcomputers in the house. My very first e-mail address was a digital! address and the highlight of many a day was getting to log in on the VT220 for my allotted hour to check messages, play ADVENT, and dick around in my little shell account. It seemed like my mom was always at work, and because she was a single mother I spent maybe 30 hours a week in the office with her, raiding the supply closet for mechanical pencils and post-it notes, and playing directly on the console. One time, I e-mailed her boss complaining that she wasn't home enough and if I was going to be in the office so much they needed to put some better games on Skippy (the host name of the VAX where the handful of games were kept). I knew his first name was Ken, and went to do a wildcard search for last names in the directory, but ended up mailing every Ken in the company, including Ken Olsen. When she started getting replies to the effect of "Why the hell is your kid mailing me and Ken Olsen about your working hours, and why the hell does he have access in the first place" she rightly freaked out and started looking for another job. About a week after that, I'm in the office, banned from touching anything even remotely resembling a computer, when ...the call... came. Ken Olsen himself called my mom, talked to her for about 30 minutes. Then he asked to speak with me. I remember he sounded like my grandfather, very gentle and kind, but with that air of wisdom and authority. He asked me why I mailed, how many hours I spent in the office, and some general questions about Star Wars and computers. He told me that I needed to be careful when e-mailing and that he hoped I would remember to be a careful programmer, comment my code, and be extra nice to my mother. The end result is that she got a week off of work, paid, and the next time I got to log in to Skippy there were about two dozen new games. So many memories of that place. My mom passed away about 6 years ago, still working for HP. She was giving a presentation, and what I heard is that she complained of a pain in her chest but finished her Powerpoint, took her seat, and left. I only bring this up, because her funeral had several enormous flower arrangements, with one coming from HP. After the funeral, as I was taking them down, I noticed that someone had tucked a vase in to the arrangement. It was maroon with the familiar DIGITAL logo and it held a faded blue silk rose printed with the IBM logo. The vase was a give-away that DEC used to tweak IBM trade show folks. As you walked in to a conference IBM people would stand at the door giving away blue silk IBM roses, the DEC people would stand right behind them and hand you a DIGITAL vase.

    1. Re:DEC in the family by squidflakes · · Score: 1

      What the hell happened to all of my whitespace?

    2. Re:DEC in the family by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You ever hear of paragraphs?

    3. Re:DEC in the family by mudshark · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, it was worth squinting to read that. Condolences to you both for your mother and for Ken.

      --
      In other news, astrophysicists have announced that they now know what all that dark matter is: it's stupidity.
  48. Ouch by outlander · · Score: 1

    Rest in peace.

    I just sold off my Rainbow 100 last year, to a collector who marveled at the fact that it was still working.....and it had both MS-DOS 1.0 and CPM disks.

    Learned to program on Ultrix, which of course ran on VAX hardware....it was good for its time, and as much as VMS was good, I think a real focus on *nix would have catapulted DEC into the stratosphere.

    --
    "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
  49. Re:Except that VMS was rock solid, NT - not so muc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    VMS would not be rocksolid if anyone could install it on their dads VAX, put together of parts purchased on a yard sale, thats what NT have to run on.

  50. Re: Ken Olsen -- Your values are missing today by bpechter · · Score: 1

    I never met him, but I always admired the way he put values ahead of pure profit.

    As a Field Grunt in Field Service I always was told to do what's right for the customer. In these days of call centers, untrained support personnel reading from scripts, software that requires a paid support contract to fix security defects in the releases... or to upgrade firmware which used to be free for buying the hardware (Oracle, HP).

    We're in a world which views the customer as a consumer and pushes profit ahead of everything else.

    VAX/VMS was a solid well supported product and Vaxclusters were revolutionary.

    Ken Olsen made mistakes... but he never forgot he was an engineer first. Here's to the techie's techie who valued more than just the bottom line.

    He missed the Unix boat and was late to the "Open Systems" camp -- but the folks at DEC put an awful lot of source stuff up for download on decwrl and market-20 on their dime before there were web browsers and download.com.
    Here's to AltaVista, DECnet and BasicPlus. Here's to distributed computing to the desktop.

  51. A DECcie doesn't die by twotommylong · · Score: 2

    They just cease processing with a Failed UniBus Address Register (FUBAR) = 17777777

    Any company that wrote it's training manuals with variables of $FOO and $BAR was my kind of company

    - TTL

    P.S. I still dream in TECO. Not that wussy VTEDIT full screen stuff... but writing programs in TECO and executing in MUNG. My therapist says I have closure issues;-)

  52. Hidden message.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone ever got that message, on their VT100 term?

    11-PDP EHT EDISNI DEPPART MA I, PLEH

  53. Respect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Even being behind iron curtain all along, we knew and had due respect for Digital, and Ken as the main man there. Have started myself with Assembler and soon C on PDP-11 clone - yep, that was, what we had there for us at the time. And then VAX-11 with VMS: what an architecture to respect. Much of influence, fundamental example of attitude to computing engineering. Humane in engineering - that's what it was about. Magic, only real man can do.

    I don't care about world being spoiled by soon-to-follow commodity of computing, cheapness of it, that undermined very arena for Digital products. For real engineer it is hardly avoidable to remember outstanding quality of that - real - engineering as opposed to competing on cheapness. As long, as I remain professional in this industry, my preferences are set by this company, built by this man.

  54. I learned Assembly Language on a PDP-1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    12 bit words if I remember used OCTAL not HEX also if I recall. Then the PDP-8's and PDP-11's, Especially the 11's were super machines, so much so there was a HEATHKIT version... sigh...what a COOL time!

  55. and don't 4get EDT;-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    best editor evah! and VMS was best dev. environment ever: what he said about mix&match. and don't 4get layered logicals: made builds (almost;-) painless;-) and back in the mid-late '80s, i telecommuted via dialup, coding for the yuk43 (iirc: the navy's hardened version of the VAX, it had beveled corners & lifting lugs to fit it thru sub hatches;-)

    and of course the russkies chose the VAX to knock off;-)

  56. Re:Except that VMS was rock solid, NT - not so muc by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    Something obviously got lost in the translation to x86.

    KESU. The four-tier address/command relationship responsible for VAX/VMS' armour-plated security. Intel couldn't support it, thus x86 user mode programs were writing to places they well nigh shouldn't. Welcome to the world of buffer overrun exploits.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  57. FreeVMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not too late to resurrect VMS

    "VMS (Virtual Memory System) operating system is available only on VAX, Alpha and Itanium processors, and in spite of its undeniable qualities, its future seems uncertain. FreeVMS project tends to coding an operating system under GPL lincense according to VMS system specifications."

    http://www.freevms.net/

  58. Obligatory by zmughal · · Score: 1
  59. One of the giants has gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was with DEC from 1979-1985, I think (I'm sure about the 1985 end, the other is close), first in field software support, then in LCG Software Engineering in Marlboro. Badge 91974, cost center 341 :-). Though I did some VAX support, mostly I was a TOPS-20 guy. Command and filename completion come from there, and that's where I first met and married Emacs (RMS's ITS Teco implementation, running under the Incompatibility package on TOPS-20). I think it was also the only system ever sold as a pre-configured ARPAnet system, just install it and go.

    The VAX and VMS were weird. There were bits in the hardware designed by people who still thought memory was terribly expensive (and which cost a lot of performance, or at least made pipelined versions very hard to build), but lots of things in the software assuming memory was plentiful. There were good original things, and then there were things markedly inferior to what the company had done in other products for years (*cough* virtual memory *cough*). Cutler came out of RSX-11M, and I was a RSTS guy in that generation, so we were fated to never really agree. I laughed at the joke that Cutler leaving DEC for Microsoft raised the average IQ of both companies.

    DEC had been making single-user computers for ages; lots of the PDP-8s were used that way, and a good many 11s. Plus they were the leader in time-sharing, which is "single-user" computing in many senses. But to try to fight for the PC market, they had to go down in price and commit to the lower margin -- which would kill them if the market didn't take off spectacularly. And it wasn't that obvious, at first, that it would. Hindsight is much clearer. Companies are almost never good at undercutting their own premiere products; they nearly always let somebody outside take care of that for them, and then try to react when it's too late.

    I've still got a DEC (Minneapolis office) mug on my desk at work.

  60. One word I would hate to read in my own obituary: by NightFears · · Score: 1

    One word I would hate to read in my own obituary: "elite".

  61. Re:Olsen's own staff turned on him, and killed DEC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Strange how the passing of time changes history. My recollection of the 80s does include a marvelous VMS OS but only 32 bit VAXen, the Alpha project was slow to develop and didn't hit the streets until the 90s were well underway. Cutler leaving for MS, the result of PRISMs cancellation seemed more an artifact of our inability to resolve the CISC/RISC, VMS vs Ultrix ad naseum debates. I loved working for DEC, named my youngest son, Miles Maynard, but we lacked a clear vision at the time KO was forced out. Literally made me sick to hear the news at the time and of course, subsequent decisions by the board did little to inspire improved confidence.

    Ken Olsen quite literally set the stage for the engineer as a significant force in society, or maybe he reinvented the renissance. Either way, he was a source of personal inpiration for me and his passing represents a landmark in the history of computing.

    His tenure as the spiritual and technical leader for the Massachsetts Miracle always reminded of the often mangled quote by Fiorello LaGuardia, "I don't make many mistakes, but when I do, they're real beauts".