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Judge Rules Against China In 'Green Dam' Suit
An anonymous reader writes "About a year after Cybersitter sued the Chinese government and several Asian OEMs for allegedly copying its code to create the 'Green Dam' software, a US federal judge has allowed the $2.3 billion suit to proceed. Judge Josephine Staton Tucker, a California district judge, entered a judgement of default against the People's Republic of China on Wednesday, after PRC officials failed to respond to the ruling. Although the PRC's embassy sent a letter to the US State Department protesting Cybersitter's suit, such a letter did not qualify as a formal response."
I wonder if we can knock $2.3b off our debt to China, then?
"The Chinese side hereby expresses strong concern over it and firmly rejects it" Does that really work in China?
It's not like he'll ever see a dime. Does he really expect the Chinese government to cut him a check? At best he's gotten a moral victory and a big bill from his own lawyers.
and write an update that simply disables/uninstall the software on any machine that requests updates from China (Green dam asks for updates to Cybersitter website).
That could have been really interesting to see...
isn't there some law against suing foreign governments? At the very least, the judicial branch can't possibly imagine having the power to demand money from foreign nations.....can they?
... you mean it's possible to sue other countries in a U.S. federal court? Is there anyone you can't sue in the U.S.?
Lucky for us the Chinese don't care about honoring patents. So, we just reciprocate. They don't honor ours, we just stop honoring theirs. Encourage US firms to take Chinese IP and develop/market it for themselves. I mean hell, if the Chinese think its ok to do that with our stuff, then they shouldn't have a problem with us doing it to theirs. Maybe MAP? Mutually Assured Piracy?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
they say they are quite scared of an american court passing judgment on them.
Read radical news here
Yeah, that's gonna work. If China doesn't honor US patents, the US can sue them. If the US doesn't honor Chinese patents, the Chinese will... oh I dunno... cut off exports to the US?
Except, really, who else is going to buy their exports? Most of the country is dedicated to supplying stores like Wal-mart, or for their own consumption. Think how much money firms like Apple bring in to China? And all those other tech companies that buy components made in China? They might not all be US owned, but a lot of their products are sold in the US. If China stops exporting to the US, we can revive our industrial capability. It will be hard and expensive, but beneficial in the long run. But then who's going to buy all those Chinese-made goods? China can't sustain its own growth and production internally. We might be tied to them, but they are as equally tied to us.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The full title of this software is actually GREEN DAM YOUTH ESCORT.
For guarding of the youth, to making safe and happy social harmony. Great and capable software for glorious ten thousand year nation. Code is not stolen; developed by brilliant engineers at November 23 People's Collective Software Refinery.
Candidly speaking, say the judge rules in favor of the plaintiff, what then? What possible outcome could occur such that PRC is forced to pay any or all of the suit?
If anyone is versed in international law (if that is what this is called), I am genuinely interested what the possible (albeit unlikely) outcomes could be.
Carl Sagan quotes get you an automatic +5 on all posts.
I think it's that the Chinese people are people that's the problem. People are inherently hypocritical, even those of us that spend lots of time minimizing it. More likely it's because they are an authoritarian regime that they expect to be able to behave like that without consequences, at least at the party level.
Good luck getting China to pay
Sig is for Signature, so you don't have to manually sign every post.
I wouldn't be so sure, even though the US spends a lot of $$$ on chinese gear, 300 million people isn't that many when u consider the size of other nations like India for instance at 1.1 billion or europe (i know not a single country but still 740 million and then there is africa at close to a billion asia including china is over 4 billion people. So i'm in kind of agreement that US needs China more than vice-versa, I mean if US companies did pull out of china, would mean that those companies would need to relocate somewhere else, they would need to spend more for manufacturing, salaries etc. Anyway that's what I personally think, I could be wrong :-)
http://chimpbox.us
China has not been honoring ANY of their treaties. They have their money fixed to the dollar. They have trade barriers in place. They subsidize and dump on the market. They steal IP all over. Per their treaty with Japan, they are required to have scrubbers on all of their power plants. W SHOULD have taken care fo this last decade, but did not. So, now, America decides to address just a little bit of the issues, and you think that China will start a nuke war over it and that America is to blame?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I mean if US companies did pull out of china
A frustrated China could not be reached for comment.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Uhhh, what?
I mean if US companies did pull out of china
A frustrated China could not be reached for comment...
...but will be out of the bathroom "real soon."
"A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
Except, really, who else is going to buy their exports?
The US buys 25% or so of Chinese exports, and that number is falling. So who else will buy their exports? The rest of the world.
Most of the country is dedicated to supplying stores like Wal-mart, or for their own consumption.
Just because the US couldn't survive without China doesn't mean China couldn't survive without the US.
If China stops exporting to the US, we can revive our industrial capability. It will be hard and expensive, but beneficial in the long run.
When we had the money, we chose to shut down our industries. When we are broke, we will not be able to revive them. The expensive part will prevent it from happening, as when we stop trade with China, the US dollar will drop like a rock and won't be able to buy anything internationally.
China can't sustain its own growth and production internally. We might be tied to them, but they are as equally tied to us.
The only reason they are tied to us now is because they are artificially depressing their currency and propping up the US currency in order to make the US an easy market and keep their products cheap. When the relationship ends, the Yuan will jump internationally and the Dollar will drop. That will hurt them and us, but not equally. The US will enter a period of massive inflation and mass exodus by international corporations to more stable places like Australia and Western Europe and China will just have to reduce production by 25% and spend that extra idle time working on quality and environmental improvements. Tied, yes. "Equally"? Not even close.
Oh, and give it another 20 years and the US will be just as dependent on China as they are now, and China will be much less tied to the US, further widening the "equal" gap you assert.
Learn to love Alaska
tl;dr version: hurr :), durr :), derp :)
I'm pretty sure the Chinese people don't want Green Dam and would happily agree to a C&D, but I'm pretty sure they don't care enough about it to stop the government that put it there. Similarly to how the US doesn't particularly like how we're sending our research, development and manufacturing overseas, but doesn't care enough to actually stop the corporate interests that bought the government that facilitate it.
The fact is that Americans and Chinese are similar: we're more or less content and won't rock the boat until a crisis comes. Then when it's too late, we'll be rioting on the streets demanding an overthrow of whatever poor sucker happens to be in charge.
Catholibans? Are you sure you don't mean Al BornAgaida?
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
China is one massive real estate and banking bubble plus they are in the midst of an inflationary spiral they are barely able to contain.
Add anything to disturb that, like revaluation of the Yuan will cause the Mother of All Crashes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8182605/Chinas-credit-bubble-on-borrowed-time-as-inflation-bites.html
if the USA had to stop all imports from China due to a war it would probably not be alone, with European and other partners perhaps following suit to some degree, since any reason that warrants such a ww4 move (think of the cold war as ww3) may trigger alliances. I don't know if Chinese rulers would not have an insurrection at home from the massive unemployment created there. They are in a tenuous position now, with many local protests squashed and kept quiet each year. India and others could probably substitute China within five years with such a situation. Of course the whole world would suffer more disruption than in the Great Depression! I really doubt it would ever come to that. Chinese and US leaders represent ecomic interests that would not allow any scenario where they all lose.
As a result, Cybersitter's suit against the PRC, Zhengzhou Jinhui Computer System Engineering Ltd., Beijing Dazheng Human Language Technology Academy Ltd. and PC OEMs Sony, Lenovo, Acer, Asustek, BenQ, and Haier, may proceed.
I don't believe that it would make much difference if there were a judgment against PRC, b/c there is no way to enforce a US court's judgment against another sovereign.
Also according to TFA, Sony tried to remove the case to China's courts, but . . .
The court denied Sony's motion, but did state in its ruling that China itself would qualify as "as an adequate alternative forum" for trial, instead of the United States.
It is unlikely that Sony (and the other defendants) would've paid for their lawyers to try to remove the suit to China unless they thought that the outcome would be more favorable for them there; most likely that means that the lax protection for IP infringement there would have negated any recovery for Cybersitter.
The ironic result is that by this decision Cybersitter is going to get its best/only shot at the most it could hope to recover from this suit.
They were to busy laughing....
If anything at all will happen what can bring US economy down permanently, US will have no allies left.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I would suggest that in the absence of cheap imported goods a way would be found to produce those goods here in the west. America has a large workforce
lol
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Sorry, but the NATO mutual defense doctrine doesn't apply to economic wars, nor wars provoked by a member of the alliance.
This comment seems to sum up the arrogant stupidity of so many posters here so well. I'll grant the poster below that probably the US army could nuke away the red army (though remember China has nukes too, and has been specifically targeting US military systems for a while, so we can assume they have at least some secret systems to do so effectively). The idea that a bunch of gun nuts interfering is going to do anything except slow down the bullets from mini-guns is so stupid that the only comparable stupidity is that of people telling the country that invented toilet paper, most of the basic vegetables you eat, gunpowder that you need for your wars and a bunch of other things that you just expect to use without thought that they own you for your "intellectual property" because "we say so".
China's development is likely to slow down lots; They have environmental problems beyond belief which are going to mess up their economy whether they try to ignore them or not. Building them up into a magical dragon about to eat the world is not going to help you in dealing with this. On the other hand, just a little bit of respect for your fellow intelligent human beings would really really help you to develop into some kind of civilization. Failing to underestimate your potential opponents will also help you avoid problems like the Battle of Unsan. If you could show some kind of consistent respect for the Chinese at the same time as not continually selling out your industrial secrets and industrial future for cheap plastic toys.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
I'm pretty sure the Chinese people don't want Green Dam...
I'm pretty sure that *SOME* of the Chinese people don't want the Green Dam (and quite frankly, the name sounds like a STD device), but how do you know that the MAJORITY don't like it? Just because we Westerners cotton to ideas of Democracy and the freedoms therein, doesn't mean that all people do.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
The Chinese gov. will not recognize this coming from a) a small state court, maybe and MAYBE only supreme court.
b) they would not recognize allegations against them from a nation that is guilty itself of doing the same, and also of a country
that when confronted with the truth about its invasion of iraq, was neglecting to show any proper information of WMDs.
This would be like being brought to court by a crack whore who says you broke into her house and stole something, the credibility is just not there...for the rest of the world anyways....as for this small court house in xxx, I really feel bad for the judge who agreed to review this case, he will become a laughing stock no matter what his ruling.
"China doesn't get paid"
This is absolutely brilliant! We don't have to monetize the crap out of the dollar through profligate printing at the Fed. Instead, we lawyer up and sue the crap out of the Chinese in our courts and in their arrogance, they do diddly squat like the consolute did in this case. They lose judgment after judgment by default, and then when they come to claim California, Oregon, and Washington states, we serve the execution writs on the many judgments and then they only get California instead of the whole damn West Coast.
I mean if US companies did pull out of china
A frustrated China could not be reached for comment...
...but will be out of the bathroom "real soon."
Good. We're all dying to know if the US companies pulled out in time.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
The Chinese are like Muslims: If it benefits them, it is the will of their God(s).
So much so, that many of them are Muslims. By which I mean tens of millions of them.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009