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The Death of BCC

An anonymous reader writes "An interesting op-ed at NeoSmart discusses the demise of BCC in emails at the hands of Facebook and the like. It discusses how certain technologies that are slowly being supplanted by 'cooler' yet less effective alternatives have actually been spoiled for all, since they rely on a basic community-wide awareness regarding these technologies for them to work."

51 of 366 comments (clear)

  1. Nope by eison · · Score: 3, Interesting

    BCC was killed by spam filters, not facebook.

    --
    is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
    1. Re:Nope by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Saying BCC is dead because people use facebook is like saying SSH or FTP is dead, because my mom doesn't use either.

    2. Re:Nope by perlchild · · Score: 2

      It ain't been killed till we have a new version of smtp without it, imho.

    3. Re:Nope by ls671 · · Score: 2

      I guess you are right because when I started reading, I actually thought TFA was about the BBC. It could have made more sense I guess...

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    4. Re:Nope by mr_mischief · · Score: 5, Informative

      SMTP doesn't know "BCC". SMTP knows "RCPT TO". The MUA knows "BCC" and "RCPT TO" both because it speaks SMTP and also knows the mail content format for TO, FROM, CC, and REPLY TO headers. BCC is an extra version of CC that adds more RCPT TO requests to the SMTP session but doesn't add a header like CC does.

      Unfortunately, since so many implementors included the completely non-standard capability of multiple recipients in the "TO" field, CC itself is terribly underused itself.

      So now you know... and knowing is half the battle.

    5. Re:Nope by Toam · · Score: 2

      Having multiple addresses in the "To" field is useful, though.

      Often I might need to send an email that is explicitly intended for more than one person, while other people might need a copy of it simply so that they are "in the loop" for some reason or other. In that case, I would put the people who I was addressing in the "To" field and the others in the "CC" field.

    6. Re:Nope by kenj0418 · · Score: 2

      Yo momma so old, that she thinks "additional bandwidth" means Glenn Miller hired a fat guy on trombone.

    7. Re:Nope by MrKaos · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yo momma so FAT, her blocks exceed the inode allocation for the filesystem.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    8. Re:Nope by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 2

      She actually has different ASNs, one for each timezone she spans.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    9. Re:Nope by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 2

      You know what I hate? People that don't use reply to all, and force me to forward emails I receive. Idiots.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    10. Re:Nope by shawb · · Score: 2

      The only thing bigger than yo mamma be her Swarzchild Radius?

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    11. Re:Nope by isorox · · Score: 2

      Saying BCC is dead because people use facebook is like saying SSH or FTP is dead, because my mom doesn't use either.

      Close enough.

      When was the last time you saw anyone but the alpha geek use a stand alone FTP client?

      Our journalists are continually using ftp, when it works (often doesn't work from hotels). On the otherhand, anyone with a clue uses sftp.

    12. Re:Nope by Compuser · · Score: 2

      To quote wikipedia: "An object smaller than its Schwarzschild radius is called a black hole. "
      He is calling "yo mama" a black hole.

    13. Re:Nope by MBlueD · · Score: 2

      From the wikipeida article: "If one accumulates matter at normal density (1 g/cm3, for example, the density of water) up to about 150,000,000 times the mass of the Sun, such an accumulation will fall inside its own Schwarzschild radius and thus it would be a supermassive black hole of 150,000,000 solar masses." Quite fat, that momma.

      --
      We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
  2. BCC still existed? by hedwards · · Score: 2

    Seriously, given all the people using email that don't know when to use BCC rather than CC or vice versa, I'm surprised it hasn't already been yanked.

    1. Re:BCC still existed? by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Funny

      The crux of his point isn't that people don't know how to use BCC, although that's part of the problem. His point is that even for those who do know how to use BCC, recipients don't know what BCC means.

      Here's a typical example of things I've had happen. Someone sends me a misguided nastygram at work over something that I have no control over. I reply to them basically saying, "I can't do anything about this, you need to contact x." Also, because I know they've been dog-cussing me over it to their boss, who is good buddies with my boss, I BCC his boss so that I can 1) let him know that the stuff he's hearing is unjustified, while simultaneously 2) trying not to agitate someone who's already bothered by looking like I'm needlessly escalating something to his boss.

      Unfortunately, his boss is also a dipweed, and next thing I know, he's done a "Reply All" and said something like, "Hey, make sure you call x today, because we need this up and working for close of business."

      Now, not only does the person know I sent the e-mail to his boss, but he knows that I did it surreptitiously, and he's even more pissed off than if I'd just CCed his boss on it so that he would know.

      Having said that, I do wish that people would learn how to use BCC. Here's another typical scenario we have happen now and then:

      Someone sends out some dumb little, "Hey everyone, we're having a party in the marketing group tomorrow, so bring in some food!" Unfortunately, they make two mistakes: 1) They accidentally send it to the entire company, including offices in Europe, Asia, Africa, etc., and 2) they address it in the To: or Cc: field instead of Bcc:. Next thing I know, I'm being inundated with, "PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR DISTRIBUTION LIST!!!11!11!!" e-mails. And then after that come the inevitable deluge of, "PLEASE STOP REPLYING TO ALL!!!11!11!!" e-mails. The first one isn't so bad, but then there's this global e-mail flame war that breaks out between the people saying they want to stop getting e-mails and the people who are fussing about the people who want to stop getting e-mails. Sometimes it even descends down to a third, people fussing about people fussing about people who don't want to get e-mails, level.

      I never cease to be amazed by how dumb people can be.

    2. Re:BCC still existed? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actual scenario, that I've been on the recieving end of: A company decides to send a mass-mailing to a group of customers. The employee CCs them all... and thus inadvertantly gives out half the company mailing list to everyone on it.

    3. Re:BCC still existed? by hey+hey+hey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      BCC doesnt show other recipients

      Not all mail systems handle BCC this way. The X.400 system (at least used to) take the odd approach of hiding the BCC recipients from the main recipients, but all the BCC recipients could see each other. Other mailers may do equally odd things (or have non-standard settings).

    4. Re:BCC still existed? by ladadadada · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have another read of his comment. He sent an email To: one person and Bcc: to that person's boss. The boss receives an email that does not have his email address anywhere in it. When the boss hits reply-all, the email will go to two people: the person who sent the email and the person to whom it was addressed. It was the boss who was in the Bcc field and hence when the boss hits reply, he doesn't send an email to himself.

      There is no adding "everyone in by hand" because there are only two people who receive the boss's email and neither of them were in the Bcc field.

      --
      Sig matters not. Judge me by my sig, do you?
    5. Re:BCC still existed? by hawguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      BCC doesnt show other recipients, so if your boss scenario actually happened, either you don't know how to use BCC yourself, or he added everyone in by hand.

      I think it's you that doesn't understand how BCC works, the parent poster's scenario is quite possible (and has happened to me)

      I send:

      From: Johnny Five
      To: Stupid Coworker
      Bcc: Big Boss

      Dude, Stop sending me porn, I don't want to see it.

      My Stupid Coworker doesn't know I Bcc'ed the boss since he doesn't see the Bcc list, however, if the Boss does a reply-all, then stupid Coworker gets this email from him:

      From: Big Boss
      To: Stupid Coworker, Johnny Five

      >Johnny Five wrote:
      >
      >Dude, Stop sending me porn, I don't want to see it.

      Don't send porn to Johnny, send it to me instead.

      Now Stupid Coworker knows that it was me that reported him for sending me porn.

    6. Re:BCC still existed? by hawguy · · Score: 2

      Now Stupid Coworker knows that it was me that reported him for sending me porn.

      ...because your boss is a dork. He should have send a message to Johnny Five (or everyone), "reminder: don't send porn to co-workers".

      Uhh...yeah, that was kind of the point the parent poster was trying to make when he said:

      Unfortunately, his boss is also a dipweed, and next thing I know, he's done a "Reply All" and said something like, "Hey, make sure you call x today, because we need this up and working for close of business."

      People that don't recognize that they've been Bcc'ed and handle it appropriately appear to be dorks (or dipweeds).

    7. Re:BCC still existed? by mmj638 · · Score: 2

      No. If you receive an email, you see all the "To" and "Cc" recipients regardless of whether you were Bcc'd. You just don't see the Bcc recipients (ie, yourself).

      So if you "reply all" it still goes back to everyone in the "To" and "Cc" recipient list.

    8. Re:BCC still existed? by ivucica · · Score: 2

      Gmail's "Mute" ftw.

  3. So true by QuantumG · · Score: 2

    Every single time I use BCC these days I think "this is gunna bite me in the ass".

    That said, try to find an email program that gives any "help" or description of the functionality. Email software is arcane and unlearnable by the isolated individual. They really are a relic of a long forgotten time when people were introduced to computers with "training" provided by competent professionals, in a community where someone was available to provide gentle reminders of appropriate etiquette.

    Yes, email is now our lightsaber.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:So true by Kidbro · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's useful when you're informing a large group of people that may not know eachother already about an event. For instance when sending out an invitation to a party.

      It's just plain rude to share people's email address without their permission.

    2. Re:So true by geoskd · · Score: 2

      When was the last time you used BCC? I'm not sure I used it at all in the last five years. Is it even useful for anything practical?

      I use it all the time at work, when I want person X to know that I am on top of a situation dealing with person Y, and person Y is being a douche. I usually only have to do this once with any given douche before they do what I tell them to without the stupid games.

      -=Geoskd

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    3. Re:So true by mug+funky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      cue the tech-savvy one asking why is she BCC'd on her valentine...

      i think an email-merge would serve this purpose better.

      but really... why would you want multiple girlfriends? it's hard enough finding one girl that's not insane let alone several

      (oh, no i didn't!)

    4. Re:So true by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 2

      No, I want BCC. That way people on the BCC don't get the replies; people on the CC do (they stay on the thread).

      BCC = 1 reply no followups. CC = all followups.

    5. Re:So true by noidentity · · Score: 2

      On the flip-side, you have to assume that anyone you email is clueless and will share your address, and will get some kind of virus that adds it to spam lists, so you share a forwarding alias that you can kill if it gets misused.

    6. Re:So true by macshit · · Score: 2

      I quite often BCC myself at another address, e.g., if it's a mail I'm sending from work, but I want a copy in my non-work mail account too.

      Less often, but still occasionally, I'll BCC somebody so they also have a record, and I don't necessarily want the recipient to know -- you know, the actual intended use of BCC header...

      BCC is certainly useful, if not something you typically use on every email. Sure the masses are ignorant of it, but they're ignorant of vast numbers of useful features.... that's certainly no reason to get rid of it (unless perhaps you're making a dumbed-down lightweight client and every byte counts...)!

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    7. Re:So true by geezer+nerd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Amen. I am not in the corporate world, being retired. But I am frequently the recipient of jokes and cute pictures and such which include long lists of email addresses of who knows who. And nested deeply through the 3 or 4 times the stuff was forwarded.
      I feel very strongly that one should not willy-nilly expose email addresses in that way, so I carefully delete all that from any email that I forward on.
      Frequently I will forward one of these to my friends and family, many of whom do not know each other. I then use BCC all the time so those friends are not seeing the emails of those they do not know.
      And, very few of my correspondents do the same.

  4. It's dead? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

    Strange, I see it used all the time - in the workplace, that is. For one thing, it's a very convenient way to "loop out" someone from a long-going email thread (when it's no longer relevant to them).

    1. Re:It's dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not the orig poster, but it's so they know they are being looped out.

      For example, if you're looping out a list that shouldn't have been looped in in the first place (perhaps they should be contacting another list instead, which you are now cc-ing), then moving them to the Bcc and saying "list -> Bcc" or "Bcc list" in the body lets the other people on that list know you're looping them out.

      That way, the Bcc-ed people know they don't have to follow up and do the same thing ("You want information-disbursement@, not information-retrieval@...").

      This only works in a professional environment with people who know how email works (not the "please unsubscribe me" masses).

  5. Gonna miss that site by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:Gonna miss that site by mehemiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I read it that way also!

    2. Re:Gonna miss that site by JonySuede · · Score: 2

      I was sad for the brits too.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
  6. my other me by epine · · Score: 2

    The only time I ever used BCC was to send a copy to my other me on some other account, whose existence I didn't wish to publicize.

    I don't know why FB doesn't implement "burning carbon copy". Never been on the service, maybe that's also too much to ask people to understand. Perhaps the major downside is getting sued for implementing this by the visually impaired.

    The upside of Facebook is that we can now explain dark matter to your average dim bulb: it's like a person without a FB account. It shows up on an abstract census, but there's no public record of its birth date, mother's maiden name, or SIN number, and it doesn't even interact with likinos, so for most practical purposes, it's not really there.

    1. Re:my other me by Gonoff · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know why FB doesn't implement "burning carbon copy".

      Blind Carbon Copy Actually - unless this is another example of how the USA has diverged from English. In that case, sorry.

      --
      I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
  7. Huh? by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Bcc: is usually used for juicy emails. It's used a lot for CYA, and to keep certain people in the loop on touchy subjects. Whenever I get interesting emails I always check the to/cc fields to see who the players are, and who is involved. And if I'm not on there, you can bet I'm going to keep my trap shut until I need to say something.

    Bcc: is alive and well; it appears that the author of TFA got burned by bcc'ing a clueless sot. You've got be careful on both ends...

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  8. Re:Good Riddance by Seumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah. Political bullshit.

    Or . . . you know, an extremely useful way to keep someone apprised of communications without actually including them in communications. Say, when you are perhaps communicating information to a client and want an engineer to be up to speed on what is being communicated to said client, but you don't want to unnecessarily directly involve said engineer to the point that the client would just start spamming the engineer directly or that the engineer would start getting copied on every single piece of future communication in the thread.

  9. Too Bad... by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 2

    You mean, I won't be able to send out generic, "I love you Babe, you're so special to me!" emails to my multitude of girlfriends without them finding out about one another anymore? Oh the horror!

    *insert Slashdot virginity jokes here*

  10. Re:Good Riddance by LurkerXXX · · Score: 2

    As the other poster pointed out, there are LOTS of us using it in non-political bullshit ways every day. It can be very handy. Just because YOU don't use it or have a need for it, doesn't mean others don't. I don't use facebook, but I understand other folks find it useful.

  11. Re:Good Riddance by darkstar949 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've seen BCC used to send bulk company-wide emails out to all of the employees so if anyone tired to reply to it, only the original sender would be the email as opposed to the entire company.

  12. Reply All storms by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Interesting
  13. Re:Good Riddance by Zocalo · · Score: 2

    OK, here's a counter example that I use BCC for all of the time:

    I frequently email a list of people some data such as links to a photo gallery from a recent trip, friends & family events, that kind of thing. The recipient list will typically vary slightly every time and, since it is most likely a one shot deal, there's not much point setting up a mailing list. Out of common courtesy, since not everyone on the list is going to know everyone else, I use BCC so that just in case one or more of them has been pwned, the entire list of email addresses won't get harvested and everyone will get spammed even more than usual.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  14. Killed by Facebook? by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 2

    Great! I can add one more reason why I don't use Facebook: I'm helping to keep Bcc alive.

    If you want to reach me with a group e-mail that looks like it is only going to me, you will just have to blow the dust off that Bcc header.

    Bcc is useful when you're sending an e-mail to many people without intending to start a virtual mailing list discussion where people can "reply all".

    It is essential in situations where you need to ask a bunch of people some personal question where an accidental "reply all" leads to embarassment.

  15. BCC? Borland??? by GuruBuckaroo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It took reading the summary twice for me to realize this story wasn't about the Borland C Compiler. I couldn't figure out what the hell Facebook had to do with the best cross-platform C compiler and library ever written.

    I was actually just talking to my Domino admin the other day about BCC:. Every chance he gets, he reminds our users about it. Almost nobody knows what it is, can't imagine a use case, and thus fail to even try - until we give them a couple of good solid examples.

    --
    Poor means hoping the toothache goes away.
  16. Huh? What? by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    BCC was dead ages ago because nobody hardly ever learned to use it. It was dead before Facebook. It was dead before the large influx of spam. It was dead about the time Gopher came out.

    Ever get a "chain forwarded" email with hundreds of email addresses of people you don't know?

    That's because nobody uses BCC. Nobody ever learns how to trim FW: lines either. FFS, nobody ever learns to reply in-line with quotes. Replies are all top posted, mostly because of that crawling horror called Lotus Notes and that other crawling horror Exchange. Nobody ever learns how to trim replies either - a one line top posted reply to 10 screens of text or multiple forwards? Sure!

    The death of BCC is not because of Facebook. The death of useful email features is because most people are unwilling to learn, rude, or stupid.

    --
    BMO

  17. How has Facebook killed Bcc? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    I don't know that I've ever used blind carbon copy on a personal email, so whether or not I use Facebook's messaging instead is not relevant. I DO use Bcc in work emails, and I have a hard time believing Facebook messaging is going to supplant email for the workforce.

    I'm guessing the submitter has not yet entered the workforce? That seems like a blindingly obvious miss on his part.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  18. BCC is quite handy - prevents reply storms by seifried · · Score: 2

    I used it recently to send a couple hundred emails with myself as the recipient and BCC'ed to all the people that needed to receive it (not worth doing a list since we only had to email them once). No BCC means any replies create a reply storm, no thanks.

  19. Most people use email, not just Facebook by FoolishOwl · · Score: 2

    The point of the blog post seems to be that since Facebook doesn't offer BCC, people aren't using BCC anymore. It makes the rather bizarre assumption that Facebook has supplanted email. That's simply not true, as a glance at anyone's email inbox will reveal. In fact, it's a laughable presumption.