Tiny Transistors Could Be Used To Track Cash

disco_tracy writes "Banks have long considered placing silicon transistors on currency for security purposes, but the technology was too chunky and intensive for paper bills. Now, tiny low-power organic transistors developed by German scientists could make it possible to really follow the money."

Comments

Damn

[BJ_Covert_Action]

There goes one of the last mediums of semi-anonymous financial transactions.

Re:Damn

[cayenne8]

"There goes one of the last mediums of semi-anonymous financial transactions."

Back to the barter system anyone??

Re:Damn

[aztektum]

Toss your bills in the microwave.

Re:Damn

[Anonymous Coward]

The protesters in the middle east could be seen as criminals. Anonymity is important because it can protect dissenters from retribution from those in power. It may mean that there will be people that buy drugs or whatever, but I fear tyrants more than I fear crime.

Re:Damn

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Your ignorance on the importance of anonymity astounds me. Try living next to some nosey, judgmental, zealous neighbors sometime and tell me how much you like the idea of all of your actions, transactions, and movements tracked.

Re:Damn

[DarkOx]

Shame on you for even saying it even in jest, because some people will no doubt think it. The attitude that just because something is secret or private it must be a tool of crime is just wrong. There should exist a right to privacy, being able to make purchases in anonymity at least of things we have not specifically classified as controlled is a pretty basic part of that.

   

Re:Damn

[molo]

And then don't forget to launder them.

-molo

Re:Damn

[dargaud]

I always though that the dollar bill, as opposed to just any money in the world, was made on purpose easy to counterfeit so that it would be used as the de facto worldwide currency. I mean it's only 2 colors (green and black) and the security measures on it are ridiculous (some hair in the paper, are you serious?). The paper is too similar to basic paper for the average Joe to tell (it indeed dissolves if you forget it in your pants while using the washing mashine). If you take most other moneys, like the Euro, you have 20 things on it that make it very hard to counterfeit.

Re:Damn

[rubycodez]

I have great news for you, the banking cartel whose debt notes you use operates outside the laws of your land, financing genocide, transgressions against human rights, arms dealing to criminals and despots, financing both sides of wars, and even profits from both sides of the "war on drugs". Moreover with the recent bailouts across the globe, your descendants have been saddled with an unpayable debt load to their benefit.

Re:Damn

[rubycodez]

by strange coincidence, gold and silver transactions over $600 are now required to be tracked by the IRS

Re:Damn

[BJ_Covert_Action]

You're using the government's own printed scrip, backed by the government's health and stability, all of which is costly to all of us.

Exactly, it's costly to us. It's not the government's scrip. It's our scrip. We pay for it. And we simply trust the government to print it in a responsible manner. That means, logically, that we should be able to, as citizens, do whatever the hell we want with our scrip without oversight from our government overlords. We, the citizenry, are supposed to be tracking and monitoring our government, and all of their powers, to keep them in check. Our government is not supposed to be tracking and monitoring we citizens to keep us in check. The government is little more than a necessary evil to help manage and contend with the more unpredictable, shitty portions of being a human being living on this planet (like dealing with sociopathic criminals and such). The government is not supposed to be, and should never be, an overbearing social entity that regulates all citizens' lives to protect them from themselves.

My government should answer to me. I fund it. I contribute to it. I take time out of my busy damn life to help it function (jury duty, voting, registering my vehicle with DMV, smog checks, etc. etc. etc.). That means that the government is mine (more appropriately ours) to oversee and monitor. Not the other way around. The fact that I purchase legal tender from the government via my taxes and contributions to society does not mean that I am purchasing government oversight of my life. It means that I am entering into a social contract with the government that says, "I'll give you a portion of my earnings to help support the society that helps support me. In return, I expect access to the legal tender we (the citizenry) grant you (the government) the power to print that I may partake in whatever social transactions I see fit." What is not included in that contract, and what should never be included in that contract, is a clause that says, "I expect access to the legal tender only for goods and services that the government approves of." Money is not under the control of the Executive branch, it is under control of the Legislative branch. Money is not intended to be used as crime prevention tool. It is intended to be used as a social contract between two individuals partaking in a private transaction in a common society. To conflate those two roles is a violation of the principle of the Separation of Powers and is downright fucking stupid.

The government is not explicitly granted the power to track my private financial transactions in the Constitution of the United States of America. And, until we citizens get together and vote to amend that document and, thus, yield that power to the government that we hold a social contract with, it never has the right, responsibility, or duty to do so. Just because you wish the government has that power, does not give the government that power. Learning and understanding that principle could actually help you grow into the informed citizen that you are supposed to be in this society. Good day sir.

Re:Damn

[Puff_Of_Hot_Air]

They'll probably change them to a polymer based note (like here in Australia and much of the rest of the world), so the microwave will destroy the note. I am sure there will be other ways though. High voltage spark from one of those firelighters perhaps?

Re:Damn

[Opportunist]

What is a crime? Well, everything a government declares as such.

I have a friend in Libya. You might want to discuss the question with him...

Re:Damn

[Opportunist]

In other words, if I don't want the government (or some companies that pay enough for the data) to know what I spend my money on, I'm a criminal?

Re:Damn

[Opportunist]

I'm mostly afraid of what's to come.

First of all, how should I be sure that what I, a law abiding citizen, do will not be criminalised in the future? You might buy a service or an item that will be outlawed in the future. Did you stop using it? And even if, you wanted to use it in the past, did you stop just because it was outlawed?

Or how about our "war on cigarettes"? Let's go on and do more for the public health, let's monitor how often people go to eat fast food. Let's track their eating behaviour and require them to eat healthy at least 5 days a week. You spend too much money at the burger joint? Watch your health insurance skyrocket! Or how about losing it altogether?

You didn't spend any money on motor oil lately either, so we won't cover your next engine breakdown while we're at it.

Should I go on?

Where's George?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just use "Where's George" stamps?

Microwave?

[bluefoxlucid]

So is your currency invalid if you microwave it?

Re:Microwave?

[Tmack]

So is your currency invalid if you microwave it?

Yes, because only a terrorist would do that, so you would be arrested on the spot if you tried to use it!! Yeh, sure your "friend" gave it to you, or you got it from selling stuff at a "yard sale", thats just terrorist speak for fellow terrorist and Arms Sale!

-tm

Even more ways to get in trouble.

[Conrthomas]

Most of our coinage is already worth more than its denomination in raw materials.....so are we proposing to give (low denomination) paper money the same treatment? I can already see black market micro-transistor harvesting businesses. Either that, or hackers and DIYers are going to start modifying them to make the company whose job it is to track such money miserable. This could almost be fun! If it weren't so 1984-esque.... Oh wait, I forgot, we already have "Where's George?", the voluntary version of this...which is basically a toy, and has no real practical use.

Re:barcodes?

[Overzeetop]

My thought exactly. Simple OCR and lookups can validate bills. If each bill gets scanned and location data, timecode, and (unique, already printed) S/N, you could know for certain if there was a duplicate somewhere. You could add other data, too. It's not like they don't already get individually counted when they're deposited at a bank.

Where's George?

[HornWumpus]

The web sight and voluntary tracking are no doubt a toy.

However it is a thought provoking toy. I bet all bills get scanned at the bank every time they are deposited. Adding OCR for serial numbers has been computationally trivial for at least a decade, standard fonts and all. There is even a valid reason as many batches of counterfeit cash share serial numbers.

Anybody want to bet the bill counting machines are network connected?

Who works at a bank? Clandestine traffic analysis? If they are tracking the bills it's got to generate a decent amount of traffic, especially by the standards of 10 or so years ago. I bet just looking for it is a fire-able offense. You'd need a reason to be looking at the traffic on the segment, then just forget to turn it off for a week or so.

Not that easy

[sjbe]

I always though that the dollar bill, as opposed to just any money in the world, was made on purpose easy to counterfeit so that it would be used as the de facto worldwide currency.

Yeah, I'm sure the facts that the US economy is by far the largest economy of any single country in the world by a wide margin and the fact that most money is not printed plays no role at all in the dollar being the world's reserve currency. [/sarcasm] The US maintains about $800 billion in circulation at any given time. This amount while large is dwarfed by the amount of money in circulation that is not printed currency. The US GDP is somewhere around $14 Trillion by comparison.

I mean it's only 2 colors (green and black) and the security measures on it are ridiculous (some hair in the paper, are you serious?).

It's not two colors and hasn't been for a very long time if it ever was. Some of the security measures are easy to see so that people can easily weed out the bad quality counterfeits. Others are less obvious to weed out the better counterfeits. If you seriously believe what you are saying you have basically announced your ignorance to the world. There is no bill that can't be counterfeited. The dollar may be easier than some but it's not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. It's estimated that there are about $70 million in counterfeit US bills in circulation at any given time. Compare $70 million with $800 billion.

it indeed dissolves if you forget it in your pants while using the washing mashine

You've never actually washed a dollar have you? They are remarkably durable and are designed to withstand washing. I've accidentally washed bills on numerous occasions and they have invariably come out just fine. A little beat up but fine.