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New MacBook Pro Teardown Reveals 'Shoddy Assembly'
CWmike writes "Apple's new MacBook Pro shows some build-quality problems that shouldn't be seen in a notebook that costs $1,800, a teardown expert said on Monday. iFixit.com found several signs of substandard assembly while disassembling a 15-in. MacBook Pro. Among them: A stripped screw near the subwoofer enclosure and an unlocked ZIF (zero insertion force) socket for the IR (infrared) sensor. '[These] should not be things found inside a completely unmolested computer with an $1,800 base price,' iFixit said in the teardown description. iFixit also spotted an unusual amount of thermal paste applied to both the CPU and the GPU. 'Holy thermal paste! Time will tell if the gobs of thermal paste applied to the CPU and GPU will cause overheating issues down the road,' iFixit said. The refreshed MacBook Pro models launched last Thursday in what one analyst called a 'ho-hum' upgrade."
Unlike those quality, American-made laptops.
Oh wait... those don't exist.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
The first-generation Macbook Pros were nothing special in terms of build quality, but up until now, the unibody machines had been rather good. If you're not paying for build quality, what ARE you getting (hardware-wise) for the extra money, given that most of Apple's components are industry standard now? I suppose this is a good reminder that regardless of the brand, most electronics are coming out of the same crappy Chinese factories.
These MacBook Pro's are the top laptops in the industry. There is nothing better.
This refresh is almost as fast as my 8-core Nehalem Xeon Mac Pro, which is rather incredible.
All great products have high resale value... I just sold my 4 year old MacBook Pro 17" for $920.
...does this mean suicides will be up at whatever sweatshop Apple is building these or will they do what they did at the iPhone factory that had the same problem: put up more nets to catch the jumpers
It was made by people who are in a daze, overworked, and totally unskilled. Apple always overcharges for their hardware. There is no revelation here.
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far. Can anybody cite evidence of additional issues, or is this being hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story?
You now have to be a fan-boy to buy Apple products? They are no longer available to the public? Since when? Do I need a badge? To join some kind of club?
Oh wait, maybe Apple came around your house and clubbed your puppy to death? No?
Perhaps take a deep breath and relax. People are free to choose Apple, Linux and even Windows. Each has strong points and reasons why they are good at what they do, so no need to start dropping both your IQ and elitist tech wang on the table by throwing the term 'fan-boys' around.
A complex/intricate design makes one tend to strip screws and leave ZIF sockets open? Sounds more like a lazy assembler to me.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
What new computer line doesn't have problems? And Apple is known for having 1st generation problems. A stripped screw, extra thermal paste, and an unlocked ZIF? Shocking, pure shock I say.
The best part it was ONE sample, yet somehow because it got attention from a sorta-credible source it is given more credence than the usual ancedotal observation.
And no, I'm typing this on a Dell.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I asked a friend; he said the line between this one data point and his preconceived notions shows a definite trend.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far. Can anybody cite evidence of additional issues, or is this being hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story?
Well, they found at least 3 independent problems on a single sample. Since each of these problems is possible separate from each other, the fact that all 3 show on a single item could indicate that the rate each problem is fairly high in general. There are other possibilities besides high problem rates, but it does raise the chances that this isn't just a single isolated incident.
We have 4 Macs (2 iMac, 2 Powerbook) that have been in the shop a total of five times (1 iMac twice, everything else once). Their build quality has gone down a lot.
You had me at zero insertion force
For now I'd say it's a fluke. You're not likely to find any of these problems even in a cheap Dell computer. In all the years I've owned and happened to open a computer or some other bit of electronics I can't say I've seen improperly assembled components. The only exception being toys where it's an absolute disaster how things get put together.
It is possible that in the rush to anticipate demand that factories are forgoing some quality control and maybe even overworking their employees.
>>>Lets try open an equivalent HP/Dell then eh?
Damn straight! This whole Slashdot Summary should be modded troll. Apple would never, ever, never have "build quality problems" in their $1800 machines. Everybody knows their laptops are better quality than my - I mean those half-price $900 PC laptops.
That's why we Apple users pay so much for them!!! It's like buying Lexus/Acura instead of Toyota/Honda, even though they are made by the same engineers in the same factory with identical engines & chassis.
(kneels before porcelain Jobs)
Did I do alright master?
Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
Blaming China or low quality is misplacing the blame in any case. The low quality of so many Chinese-made goods isn't because China is unable to make good quality; it's because Americans are addicted to buying shiny cheap junk and the Chinese give us what the retailers ask for. The market segment that is willing to pay more for quality is quite small in America.
That said, Apple *does* target the quality minded consumer with its computers. Normally the design and build quality on Apple stuff I've seen is first rate; this example comes from a sample size of one. Even a top notch manufacturer can have a bad unit. Except for the unclosed ZIF socket the problems listed don't seem to be the kind that are easy to spot in inspection. Probably the worst issue was the excessive thermal paste, and that's under the heatsink.
Does this one unit mean that build quality is slipping at Apple suppliers? Possibly, but not necessarily. The negative publicity about Foxconn could mean Apple has more on its plate than quality these days when dealing with its suppliers, but that's pure speculation.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
That screw wasn't stripped! It's Apple's new screwdriver design. They take their ordinary pentabular screws, and apply a drill to eat out the head of one of them, forcing you to drill the screw out if you open it yourself.
You're paying $1400 dollars for a titanium shell...
Robocop approves.
Instead of making me tear apart computers, why don't you just tell us. what you're talking about?
How is a Mac "more complex/intricate" than say a Lenovo or Toshiba or HP? Does the Mac have "17-Jewel Swiss Movement"?
I've been inside my Mac Pro as well as my homebuilt i7/1366 and they've got pretty much the same components. I'm not doubting you, just asking for clarification regarding the laptops.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Get a load of that: "Hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story".
You mean the "hyped up" story that had Jobs and Apple tap-dancing like the Nicholas Brothers and then shipping out hundreds of thousands of cases to "fix" the problem? That hyped up story?
You are welcome on my lawn.
So, you spend $1800 on a status symbol, and you expect quality too?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Assemble, quite possibly(even Dell does, or did until fairly recently). That just covers the "shoving customer's choice of CPU and expansion cards into motherboard and case" part of the job, though.
Intel silicon is likely made in the US, AMD Germany, both packaged in Malaysia or other cheaper locations. RAM probably Taiwan or Japan, among other possibilities.
PCB stuffing and physical assembly(except for last-stage card-level customization) almost certainly China.
...thanks to the Apple fan-boys.
I bought one. I'm not an Apple fanboy. This is, in fact, the second (alongside a third-generation iPod) Apple product that I've ever purchased. I've generally been rather anti-Apple, namely due to their shoddy Linux support (remembering early iPod days), their gross bloatware that is Windows iTunes (slash Safari, slash QuickTime, slash who the fuck knows), and my experiences working with Objective C and the Cocoa APIs professionally some early OSX builds.
That said, I went laptop shopping and, after soliciting several opinions, reading dozens of reviews, and looking at numerous potential models, I decided to go with the MBP. It was the only laptop (that I could find) that matched my criteria in terms of weight, battery life, touchpad functionality and size (was a huge selling point), keyboard layout, screen resolution, and power. I intend to use Boot Camp to dual-boot a Kubuntu distribution and will likely give both OSX and Kubuntu equal face-time. I also hope to contribute to various Linux drivers and software tweaks that target MBP hardware (camera, touchpad, etc.).
That said, let's talk Apple fanbois. I will use my experience with this device as almost my sole judge of my opinion of Apple software. How it boots, how it operates, and my experience with the UI will determine whether or not I become an Apple fanboy. I sincerely hope I do; from what I've seen, Apple is one of the few companies that is actually innovating in terms of user experience (I'll cite every music player, laptop, phone, and window manager that is playing catch-up; I understand things go deeper, Superkaramba, etc., but largely most modern composed UIs were first fully-realized by Apple). I really hope that Apple is as good as it seems on paper.
Now, granted, Apple has a negative reputation for several things. Overpriced hardware is one, for sure, but the one that really bothers me is their gatekeeper role in device software. I've always written this off because part of me definitely sympathizes with their perspective on users - that a device that "just works" is more valuable than an open platform. This definitely reflects what I've observed in the amateur computer user base, and is why I have an Android phone (and will never own an iPhone). If they had similar lockdowns of their notebooks, I'd feel similarly.
What Apple products need, I suspect, is a thriving open-source community, and looking at the thousands of Apple-targeting OSS projects out there, this seems to be the case. Just as with Windows, and MS-DOS before it, the open-source community needs to thrive in the face of adversity, provide compelling alternatives, and change both the foreground and background of the operating system - in other words, do what it does best.
The most durable, highest-build-quality consumer electronic device I've ever owned is a Thinkpad. 100% Chinese manufactured.
The machine is 2x as fast as the one I bought last year, has 10Gb I/O, for the same price.
Please have the "analyst" compare my 1989 VW Jetta to today's model for a "ho hum" upgrade...
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Thermal paste increases thermal conductivity between chip and heat sink.
Overclocked your first gaming rig, huh? No. Thermal paste is a crappy conductor. From Wikipedia:
So, "good" silver compound will be approximately 1% as conductive as aluminum. The only thing near a CPU less conductive than thermal paste is air. You want to use the bare minimum necessary to fill the minor imperfections in the surfaces of the CPU and heatsink. Any more than that and you might as well wrap your processor in a nice cozy wool sweater.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I don't know if lazy is really the appropriate word to use when talking about cheap labour.I think it's much more likely that they're actually hard-working people who are overworked and underpaid.
OK, but wouldn't that make it less "complex/intricate"?
My question to you was how is a Mac laptop's innards more "complex/intricate" as you claimed.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Maybe it is because it is so difficult to quantify quality, but price is a simple, universal, metric that can always be evaluated on an apples-to-apples basis.
>> Perhaps I was just trying to show some perspective
By comparing to something half the price?? I smell fanboi fart...
The throw-away issue isn't an Apple one, it's a laptop issue in general. It's not like CPU/Graphics on laptops have had a history of being an easy do-it-yourself job, regardless of brand. Laptops have always been inherently hard to upgrade since they're attempting to be as compact as possible. And at least Apple attempts to mitigate the damage of a throw-away society by putting a checkbox on the order form that gives you an option of mailing in your old computer so they can recycle it.
And we have 5 Macs (3 iMacs, 2 MacBooks/Pro) that have never been in the shop. Out of the about 30 different Mac owners that I personally know and interact with regularly, only one has had his Mac in for repairs. My anecdote is just as valid as your anecdote. Further, based on my anecdote, I can argue (just as validly as you argued) that the build quality of Macs has at least remained stable or even increased.
My point with my reply is that when we look at objective data (I'm not commenting on the quality of these data but they have to be better than your anecdote and my anecdote), Apple computers are the most reliable: http://www.rescuecom.com/2010-annual-computer-reliability-report.html
Here are some somewhat subjective data (but still data with a larger sample size) showing Apple on top: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368167,00.asp
Maybe Apple's build quality has gone down but objective data don't seem to show that at all.
Funny how that works. I had an old Thinkpad (forget the model now, 600?). It was made in US IIRC. ... China.
Then I got a T21, Made in the UK (I thought that was a bit odd?).
T23 was Mexican, IIRC.
X24? Korea.
T42
And then the whole division was sold to the Chinese around then. Evolution I guess. And that's only going back fifteen years or so.
Sent from my PDP-11
It is the same old story, people comparing a top end Mac with a bottom end PC and then complaining about the price difference. Mac is now the first with the new intel stuff, so HOW exactly do they come up with this price comparison when there isn't a regular laptop out there with the same hardware?
Not that I think Apple is all that hot myself. They are to me the old sony. You pay a bit more then you should but know you get reasonable quality in return. In the real world, that matters. I might get the same cheaper but it might be crap or I can lots more and it can still be crap. Old Sony made good mid quality stuff that gave you the insurance that you got decent gear for an okay price. I would be wilinng to pay more for my ordinary hamburger if I knew that the service would always be great, the hamburger always hot etc etc. That MID range, decent quality for a decent price is VERY hard to nail. Cheap and crap is easy, expensive and good is easy. Hitting the middle reliable, that is where you can make a fortune.
Until you start cutting costs. Sony went bye bye. Apple is not imune to this. For all the Sony haters now, once they were a darling just like Apple is. The mighty do fall.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I guess so to, or the Stockholm syndrome is applied at full force. Build quality problems have been there in the past.
And it always was a random luck if apple fixed it on the machines or not. Most of the time Apple acnowledged it only after they have been dragged to court with a class action lawsuit. If that did not happen users were left hanging dry in the air.
Been there done that, first gen macbook air, constantly overheating if you did more than websurfing.
A problem which according to apple never existed and yet there were thousands of complaints and they rolled out a fixup model half a year later which fixed exactly this issue!
But no the problem does not exist and we wont fix it for you, thank you for your 2500 Euros!
"Rushed" is probably more like it. I bet Apple has ordered a large number of items in a short time.
Good, Fast, or Cheap. Pick one.
I'm talking about your comparison, not Apple.
In your comparison, you say that the luxury lines of automotive companies are nothing but their regular cars with larger digits on the price tag. I'm telling you that your assumption is completely incorrect. You further define how incorrect this is by making a snarky response about couches in their waiting area, which is a strawman.
The reality is that every car, no matter how expensive or not, will require maintenance. Most 'luxury' brands build this maintenance into the price of the car up front. You cry about the standard maintenance required to keep the warranty intact. The reality is that I take my car to the dealership, get a loaner to get about my day while they do the work, and then come back at the end of the day to get my car without paying once red cent for the loaner or maintenance service.
I don't even pay (after purchase) for oil changes because it's covered by the standard maintenance and warranty. When I have a problem - any problem, I just drop it off and drive away in a loaner, and they call me and tell me what the problem is later, asking for approval to fix it, which also doesn't cost me a dime.
Next time, make a comparison to something you actually know about.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I've been inside my Mac Pro as well as my homebuilt i7/1366 and they've got pretty much the same components. I'm not doubting you, just asking for clarification regarding the laptops.
Oh, come on. I could buy that argument on the laptops, but the Mac Pro? I've personally never seen such a well-designed and -constructed enclosure. Machined aluminum tracks for everything, swappable sub-assembelies, etc. I wouldn't claim that the components themselves are superior, but the case is phenomenal - easily the equal of the average well-built rackmount server from most companies.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Dude, it is not the problem of "installing" the hardware. It is the supposed to be simple task to connect to an actual network or to set up your own one. ... 5 seconds perhaps? If I click a bit slower ... 15 seconds?
Incompetent? No idea. It took you 10 Minutes to set that up when you where picking up some medicals for your father? It sounds more like you are incompetent. On my mac it is
Then perhaps you should learn german to read it properly. And as a side note the last part I quoted from you makes you liable for a libel and defamation case. You should get some manners imho ;D
Best Regards
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.