Slashdot Mirror
New MacBook Pro Teardown Reveals 'Shoddy Assembly'
CWmike writes "Apple's new MacBook Pro shows some build-quality problems that shouldn't be seen in a notebook that costs $1,800, a teardown expert said on Monday. iFixit.com found several signs of substandard assembly while disassembling a 15-in. MacBook Pro. Among them: A stripped screw near the subwoofer enclosure and an unlocked ZIF (zero insertion force) socket for the IR (infrared) sensor. '[These] should not be things found inside a completely unmolested computer with an $1,800 base price,' iFixit said in the teardown description. iFixit also spotted an unusual amount of thermal paste applied to both the CPU and the GPU. 'Holy thermal paste! Time will tell if the gobs of thermal paste applied to the CPU and GPU will cause overheating issues down the road,' iFixit said. The refreshed MacBook Pro models launched last Thursday in what one analyst called a 'ho-hum' upgrade."
Lets try open an equivalent HP/Dell then eh? Build quality depends on how much you want to pay the little 3rd world country workers to assemble them. For all major companies, that isn't much!
Unlike those quality, American-made laptops.
Oh wait... those don't exist.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
The first-generation Macbook Pros were nothing special in terms of build quality, but up until now, the unibody machines had been rather good. If you're not paying for build quality, what ARE you getting (hardware-wise) for the extra money, given that most of Apple's components are industry standard now? I suppose this is a good reminder that regardless of the brand, most electronics are coming out of the same crappy Chinese factories.
These MacBook Pro's are the top laptops in the industry. There is nothing better.
This refresh is almost as fast as my 8-core Nehalem Xeon Mac Pro, which is rather incredible.
All great products have high resale value... I just sold my 4 year old MacBook Pro 17" for $920.
People click on Apple stories. People post to Apple stories. Slashdot editors, could you please pull a George Bush and just say "Mission Accomplished" already?
...does this mean suicides will be up at whatever sweatshop Apple is building these or will they do what they did at the iPhone factory that had the same problem: put up more nets to catch the jumpers
It was made by people who are in a daze, overworked, and totally unskilled. Apple always overcharges for their hardware. There is no revelation here.
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far. Can anybody cite evidence of additional issues, or is this being hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story?
You now have to be a fan-boy to buy Apple products? They are no longer available to the public? Since when? Do I need a badge? To join some kind of club?
Oh wait, maybe Apple came around your house and clubbed your puppy to death? No?
Perhaps take a deep breath and relax. People are free to choose Apple, Linux and even Windows. Each has strong points and reasons why they are good at what they do, so no need to start dropping both your IQ and elitist tech wang on the table by throwing the term 'fan-boys' around.
*shrugs* My cheap $360 Asus Eee PC 1015PEM netbook seems to have better build quality than that. No stripped screws or unlocked ZIF connectors from the factory. (Naturally, I partially stripped a screw opening it up to upgrade the hard disk.)
That said, the MacBook beats the everliving hell out of the Eee PC in terms of performance. Still, $1,800 for a laptop is entirely too much in my view -- I have my netbook for portability and my desktop at home for high-performance stuff.
What new computer line doesn't have problems? And Apple is known for having 1st generation problems. A stripped screw, extra thermal paste, and an unlocked ZIF? Shocking, pure shock I say.
The best part it was ONE sample, yet somehow because it got attention from a sorta-credible source it is given more credence than the usual ancedotal observation.
And no, I'm typing this on a Dell.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I asked a friend; he said the line between this one data point and his preconceived notions shows a definite trend.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Agreed, the issues also seem relatively minor. Still if this article will lead to Apple doing some extra quality control that'll be a good thing. Sort of a little reminder to Apple that we hold them to a higher standard than other pc makers.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far. Can anybody cite evidence of additional issues, or is this being hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story?
Well, they found at least 3 independent problems on a single sample. Since each of these problems is possible separate from each other, the fact that all 3 show on a single item could indicate that the rate each problem is fairly high in general. There are other possibilities besides high problem rates, but it does raise the chances that this isn't just a single isolated incident.
We have 4 Macs (2 iMac, 2 Powerbook) that have been in the shop a total of five times (1 iMac twice, everything else once). Their build quality has gone down a lot.
You had me at zero insertion force
Actually, he's scheduled for next Thursday on the puppy clubbing list. Apple is running a bit behind with both Steve Jobs and possibly Jonathan Ive out.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Doesn't Falcon Northwest make all their stuff in the US?
In the beginning, there was null.
Lol, lots of AC"s all of a sudden here to state that the macbook is the best you can get. And that is a pretty strange statement coming from the IT-crowd... Damage controle @apple I assume...
For now I'd say it's a fluke. You're not likely to find any of these problems even in a cheap Dell computer. In all the years I've owned and happened to open a computer or some other bit of electronics I can't say I've seen improperly assembled components. The only exception being toys where it's an absolute disaster how things get put together.
It is possible that in the rush to anticipate demand that factories are forgoing some quality control and maybe even overworking their employees.
They have not made PowerBooks for years.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
but you haven't been able to cheat the system and buy a Mac for top quality hardware in ages. Ever since they stopped using Power PC it's been the same PC Junk that Dell sells. You're paying $1400 dollars for a titanium shell...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
than the annoying piece of junk mentioned in the Clean the Fan video a while back:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1943659
China has come a very, very long way from when they used to only turn out crap. Look around you- most of the things you'll find were at least partially made there.
We have 4 Macs (2 iMac, 2 Powerbook) that have been in the shop a total of five times (1 iMac twice, everything else once). Their build quality has gone down a lot.
Oh yeah? Well my anecdotal is bigger than yours!
N = 7
S = 1
But not in this case.
Yes, iFixIt have found problems which should not exist, but there are only two internal, inconsequential assembly errors in an absolute engineering marvel which is cranked out in massive numbers.
These machines are generations ahead of the PowerBooks in terms of sophistication and precision engineering.
Blaming China or low quality is misplacing the blame in any case. The low quality of so many Chinese-made goods isn't because China is unable to make good quality; it's because Americans are addicted to buying shiny cheap junk and the Chinese give us what the retailers ask for. The market segment that is willing to pay more for quality is quite small in America.
That said, Apple *does* target the quality minded consumer with its computers. Normally the design and build quality on Apple stuff I've seen is first rate; this example comes from a sample size of one. Even a top notch manufacturer can have a bad unit. Except for the unclosed ZIF socket the problems listed don't seem to be the kind that are easy to spot in inspection. Probably the worst issue was the excessive thermal paste, and that's under the heatsink.
Does this one unit mean that build quality is slipping at Apple suppliers? Possibly, but not necessarily. The negative publicity about Foxconn could mean Apple has more on its plate than quality these days when dealing with its suppliers, but that's pure speculation.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I think this is it - the last time I bother with Slashdot. Troll posts (like this one) I can bypass, but the constant troll articles are getting out of hand.
Screw it. It's not just the Apple crap, I get it, you hate Apple. It's the ridiculous sensationalism that has crept into all of it. I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
-- I really need to bleed off some of this
I haven't looked recently, but a couple of years ago I came across a Vaio at a Sony store that said "Assembled in the United States" on the bottom.
End of Line.
That screw wasn't stripped! It's Apple's new screwdriver design. They take their ordinary pentabular screws, and apply a drill to eat out the head of one of them, forcing you to drill the screw out if you open it yourself.
Nope, that would make him a "fandad".
Stick with it, there's a logic to it, you'll get it eventually.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Aren't there some barebook distributors who assemble in the US? Jetta? Nspire?
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
But a bad apple will spoil the whole barrel!
Not really. I'm just very, very jealous of your impeccable timing in using that figure of speech in this context.
> Time will tell if the gobs of thermal paste applied to the CPU and GPU will cause overheating issues down the road,' iFixit said The only problem with thermal paste is if there NOT ENOUGH. Thermal paste increases thermal conductivity between chip and heat sink. Not having it would be a problem. Too much may, worst case scenario, look a bit sloppy.
You're missing the point. It's not about the fanboy nerd rage. It's about the frequency of marginal "stories" that are really advertising-driven click bait. Fanboy nerd rage can make a lot of money for a site, so lots of them are posting Apple news because it feeds the frenzy. Slashdot used to not do this sort of stuff but it seems to be on the increase. In my opinion.
A review of my posting history will show that I'm not anti-Apple (really, quite the opposite) so that's not at issue here. And in spite of iFixit's teardown it's impossible to judge the *quality* of a laptop after it's been on the market for three days. Their opinion is that the one laptop they disassembled had issues. Perhaps they should use a larger sample size.
Good point about submitting worthy news, and when I find something worthy I do that. I would not consider this story worthy.
OK Anonymous Coward, that's all you'll get from me. Post publicly next time if you'd like to continue the conversation.
As opposed to what? Wintel fan-boys, who have Stockholm syndrome from decades of abuse from crappy hardware and software? In 5 years of running a MacBook Pro, I have reinstalled my operating system exactly: ZERO times. That's worth several hundred bucks in saved time and aggravation each year.
I say this is great news! Now they will return it to Apple, where they will fix it and sell it for $400 cheaper with the same warranty on the Refurbished Mac store!
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
Get a load of that: "Hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story".
You mean the "hyped up" story that had Jobs and Apple tap-dancing like the Nicholas Brothers and then shipping out hundreds of thousands of cases to "fix" the problem? That hyped up story?
You are welcome on my lawn.
While it is indicative, one teardown is hardly a statistical sample to base QC on. The things mentioned all sound like non-core functionality. It is dissapointing, but this is precisely the maths that good statistical tolerancing would do. If we replace eg 5% of units in the 1st 12 months with warranty, we save 15% on unit assembly costs if we let the workers strip a few screws. Good enough is what matters to Apple and consumers.
Waiting for the other shoe to...
So, you spend $1800 on a status symbol, and you expect quality too?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Assemble, quite possibly(even Dell does, or did until fairly recently). That just covers the "shoving customer's choice of CPU and expansion cards into motherboard and case" part of the job, though.
Intel silicon is likely made in the US, AMD Germany, both packaged in Malaysia or other cheaper locations. RAM probably Taiwan or Japan, among other possibilities.
PCB stuffing and physical assembly(except for last-stage card-level customization) almost certainly China.
...thanks to the Apple fan-boys.
I bought one. I'm not an Apple fanboy. This is, in fact, the second (alongside a third-generation iPod) Apple product that I've ever purchased. I've generally been rather anti-Apple, namely due to their shoddy Linux support (remembering early iPod days), their gross bloatware that is Windows iTunes (slash Safari, slash QuickTime, slash who the fuck knows), and my experiences working with Objective C and the Cocoa APIs professionally some early OSX builds.
That said, I went laptop shopping and, after soliciting several opinions, reading dozens of reviews, and looking at numerous potential models, I decided to go with the MBP. It was the only laptop (that I could find) that matched my criteria in terms of weight, battery life, touchpad functionality and size (was a huge selling point), keyboard layout, screen resolution, and power. I intend to use Boot Camp to dual-boot a Kubuntu distribution and will likely give both OSX and Kubuntu equal face-time. I also hope to contribute to various Linux drivers and software tweaks that target MBP hardware (camera, touchpad, etc.).
That said, let's talk Apple fanbois. I will use my experience with this device as almost my sole judge of my opinion of Apple software. How it boots, how it operates, and my experience with the UI will determine whether or not I become an Apple fanboy. I sincerely hope I do; from what I've seen, Apple is one of the few companies that is actually innovating in terms of user experience (I'll cite every music player, laptop, phone, and window manager that is playing catch-up; I understand things go deeper, Superkaramba, etc., but largely most modern composed UIs were first fully-realized by Apple). I really hope that Apple is as good as it seems on paper.
Now, granted, Apple has a negative reputation for several things. Overpriced hardware is one, for sure, but the one that really bothers me is their gatekeeper role in device software. I've always written this off because part of me definitely sympathizes with their perspective on users - that a device that "just works" is more valuable than an open platform. This definitely reflects what I've observed in the amateur computer user base, and is why I have an Android phone (and will never own an iPhone). If they had similar lockdowns of their notebooks, I'd feel similarly.
What Apple products need, I suspect, is a thriving open-source community, and looking at the thousands of Apple-targeting OSS projects out there, this seems to be the case. Just as with Windows, and MS-DOS before it, the open-source community needs to thrive in the face of adversity, provide compelling alternatives, and change both the foreground and background of the operating system - in other words, do what it does best.
Apple Rev. A's are pretty notorious for having more character than one would like...We'll see if this turns out to be an issue, or just cosmetic.
They disassembled only one macbook and draw these conclusions?
If they pulled five apart and all had the same problems, then sure. But come on.
The most durable, highest-build-quality consumer electronic device I've ever owned is a Thinkpad. 100% Chinese manufactured.
Agreed, poor assembly is unfortunately a cost of doing business in China today. But...one poorly assembled unit (yet still working?) doesn't say anything. Manufacturing QA is mostly a numbers game, it would be much more informative if ten, or better yet, one hundred units were compared to get a more accurate picture of build quality. IF you want to compare across computer companies pull 100 from each brand then we will have some real data to analyze, compare, and contrast. BTW: I found the bit about too much thermal grease having potential "future" heating issues interesting... the whole point of thermal grease to to spread/conduct the heat from a CPU to the heatsink .. I don't see how too much of it could possibly be an issue...unless of course they got their hands full of it while doing the dis-assembly, I'd be pissed too!
But... the fact remains that MACs are more expensive than other PCs with very similar hardware... I guess some folks are willing to pay more for "looks" and OS X over Windows...not me.
Damn Taco, all these years, and you still have to hate on Apple to justify your lame misreading of the original iPod. Glad to see you are still a petulant child.
Whatever brings in the page-views. Take a look at mega-troll John C Dvorak. Surprised anyone listens to a word he says.
Hell, in the 80's, his was the first article I read every month in MacUser.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The machine is 2x as fast as the one I bought last year, has 10Gb I/O, for the same price.
Please have the "analyst" compare my 1989 VW Jetta to today's model for a "ho hum" upgrade...
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Well, I could say the same for my self built notebook & desktop machines that run Linux, Windows & OSX (Hackintosh in a VM).
That's worth the thousands of dollars I've saved in the initial purchase as opposed to a single similar spec'ed Apple, or multiple computers... wait, I have saved aggravation, time AND money ? (I win?)
Granted the "well, reinstall the OS" solution is the only way to disinfect some Windows infections, fortunately I don't do dumb things with Windows (Like let it run outside of a VM). Load a snapshot != Reinstall...
you mean like the P-p-p-powerbook?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
I bow in your general direction. You clearly have the skill to do all this yourself, and the general understanding to avoid trouble and be resilient when it does strike. But you did probably spend considerable time researching which components to put together, installing the operating systems, applying the patches, making the snapshots, etc. I took my machine out of the pretty box, turned it on, and started working. So we just spent our money/time differently . For the average user, it's not just "infections" that drive a reinstall... it's also registry corruptions and god-knows-what... my corporate brick, for example, just seized up the other day, puking on all the security and encryption shite that's been loaded on to it (by our corporate guys). Blue screen of death.
1) They should be able to have people separately inspect them at every stage before the case is put on.
2) Have a 4 year warranty
The lowest-quality, most easily-damaged electronic device I've had was a TV remote control that was shipped broken. Second place goes to a Lenovo Thinkpad R60, which had to have major repairs no less than 4 times before the warranty ran out. After that, it ran for another 2 years with a steadily-increasing number of problems and steadily-decreasing amount of mobility. Finally, the hard disk made a nice "KER-CHUNK" noise and the power cord split into two pieces within the same week. I now use an old Dell Latitude X300, which has a loose hinge and a small bit of cosmetic damage after a 6-month trip in Africa.
Now, the biggest difference between the two is the intent. The X300 was meant to be a business machine, and built to handle constant travel. The R60 was a budget model, meant to be a cheap computer that can sometimes move around. I've heard that the other Thinkpad series generally have better quality, but in my opinion, the quality has more to do with the design goals than the brand itself.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Powerbooks eh? And exactly how old are they? Hmm? I'm guessing your iMacs are old too.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Anybody who spends more than $1000 for a laptop is a fanboy in my opinion.
My employer spent quite a bit more than that to equip many of us with a Thinkpad. Was it worth the price? I would say every last dime of it.
Thin, light, fast. My laptop is a workhorse. I'm not sure you could deliver something this nice for less than a grand.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Every mac I've had resulted in hardware issues. Every one. Since '98, I've had a laptop and at least two desktops in regular use. During that time, I've really tried to buy into the Apple koolaid. iBook, Macbook pro, clamshell, top of the line aluminum iMac. All had hardware failures. Admittedly, some were very minor and didn't interfere with standard day to day operation...... But the flip side is that I've owned any number of Dells, HPs, and IBMs in that same period....with no where near a 100% hardware failure rate.
Maybe all four of them were lemons.....but when you start looking around at support forums and talking with fanbois about more than the sleek look...... You find a surprising number of failure rates for an elite, top of the line, bit of hardware with a fairly limited release in comparison with the PC market.
The thing about the haters is that they're like those annoying religious fundamentalists -- they're all about "freedom" and choice, but they get all frothing and up in your face if you happen to choose Apple. Nutcase zealot haters.
Maybe it is because it is so difficult to quantify quality, but price is a simple, universal, metric that can always be evaluated on an apples-to-apples basis.
So then there are plenty of HP and Dell fanboys too?
nobody's gonna jump ship. look at what came of the fact that the latest iteration of their iphone does not connect to any kind of network if you hold it in your left hand. nothing. nobody who cares about functionality buys apple. so they aren't bothered by such problems. people will buy apple laptops and get them repaired again and again while in warranty then upgrade after 2 years. everyone is happy. customers get to brandish around a cool, hip laptop. apple charges 5 times the cost (random number) so it can easily cover the warranty repair cost.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
yes, buying stuff just because its shiny and apple is fan-boyish behavior.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
and i've not reinstalled my os since the last 10 years. not once. and none of my machines was made by apple. so what's your point.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
Anybody who spends more than $1000 for a laptop is a fanboy...
Guess that makes me a PC fanboy...
No wait! I'm a Mac fanboy...
What kind of fanboy am I if I have both a PC laptop and a Mac laptop that cost more than $1000?
...in my opinion.
Whew! You had me going there for a second... Thank god it's only your opinion...
you guys love to pick on easy prays don't u..
FWIW, Wikipedia says the contrary: "Falcon Northwest maintains one facility located in Medford, Oregon, and it chooses not to outsource any of its operations."
Source (kinda)
In the beginning, there was null.
Having previously worked several years for a technician role with a local Apple reseller, and now owning my own repair, support and Apple consultancy business (macexperts.com.au) I have worked on the insides of literally tens of hundreds, probably thousands of Macs from the G3, to the pain in the ass PowerBook 12-inches to the latest and greatest.
I can attest that build quality over the years has definitely suffered.
Specifically on the subject of thermal paste the original MacBook Pro's suffered from this exact same defect, causing heating problems and graphics issues that plagued *a lot* of customers. Apple's own internal documentation, replacement parts and Service Manuals stipulated that all three thermal tubes supplied were to be applied to each chip, when in fact and only after hundreds of repeat repairs it was acknowledged that too much thermal paste was applied. Specifically the "fix" was to only apply one tube to all three chips - presto! problem fixed.
My advice has always been: Do not purchase first generation of a major revision of Apple hardware, it will save you pain and problems down the track such as repeat repairs.
What about on an Apples to PCs basis?
In the beginning, there was null.
And yet no one complained when Apple quietly shut down the free bumper program without changing the antenna design...
What changed? ... media attention... or rather, lack of.
If it looks like a hype, smells like a hype, and quacks like a hype... it might just be a hype.
And we have 5 Macs (3 iMacs, 2 MacBooks/Pro) that have never been in the shop. Out of the about 30 different Mac owners that I personally know and interact with regularly, only one has had his Mac in for repairs. My anecdote is just as valid as your anecdote. Further, based on my anecdote, I can argue (just as validly as you argued) that the build quality of Macs has at least remained stable or even increased.
My point with my reply is that when we look at objective data (I'm not commenting on the quality of these data but they have to be better than your anecdote and my anecdote), Apple computers are the most reliable: http://www.rescuecom.com/2010-annual-computer-reliability-report.html
Here are some somewhat subjective data (but still data with a larger sample size) showing Apple on top: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368167,00.asp
Maybe Apple's build quality has gone down but objective data don't seem to show that at all.
Most of us who love Thinkpads deny the existence of the R line entirely, in the same way that most Dell fans deny the complete existence of the Inspiron laptop line. It's like a sequel to The Matrix, never gonna happen, doesn't exist, LA LA LA LA LA! :)
I have a Dell Latitude D400 and my current company issue is a Thinkpad T500. Both are (for their respective timeframes) seriously kick-ass laptops. I've experienced firsthand the horrors that are the Thinkpad R line and the Dell Inspiron line, and both are great if you have a door that keeps opening, or need something to level an uneven chair.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Not really. You're trying to apply the idea that multiple faults in the same unit make for extra counts of errors.
That would be like if you received a monitor with 15 dead pixels, it would have 15 faults.
So in a sample set of 1, you now have 15/1 faults.
If the real failure rate were 2%, and your sample set was 100 units, you're claiming 30/100 failures, rather than 2/100.
Sadly, I've seen exactly this logic in virtually every industry. "I bought a X brand TV once, so all X brand TVs are horrible." "I drove a X brand car, and it got a flat, so all X brand cars are lemons."
I do find it unusual that the one that they tested had horrible faults, but there's always a chance it can happen. How many units from various manufacturers over time have they tested? Hundreds? Thousands? For them to not get a bad one is a statistical improbability. Now, for them to get the latest greatest Apple laptop, assuming a very low error rate, is slim but not impossible.
And I should say for the record, I am not an Apple Fan-Boy (tm). They sell generally very nice, very pretty equipment, for several times over their retail value, and Apple fans will eat it up. I'd be willing to bet they could take a lump of dog feces, spray paint it white, put an Apple logo on it, call it an iPaperWeight, and people would buy it.
With all that said, my girlfriend has a Mac. She loves her Mac. We've been playing FPS games. She's seeing that I'm getting better performance in the games from my PC. She's seeing games that she wants, that aren't available for Mac. I had built out a new machine to be a Hackintosh as a spare machine. It's a bit faster than hers, and I built it out of my own spare parts (I upgraded on a whim). I haven't gotten around to making it a Hackintosh, so it's been a very nice machine sitting on the floor. She asked a couple days ago "So, can you still make that into a Windows machine for me to game on?"
She's not giving up her Mac for day-to-day use. But when the Mac can't do it, she'll switch the KVM to game. As I tell people, use the right machine for the right application. I use Linux machines for Internet servers. I use Windows and Linux for productive desktops. I use Windows to game. Big deal. I'm not an OS zealot . I use the best platforms for the task. And when it's time to game, on any substantial variety of games, Windows is still the best platform. Sorry zealots. That's the way it is.
Let the arguing begin.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Blaming it on China is certainly misplacing blame. On the whole, China does a great job of manufacturing electronics (environmental and labour issues aside). Apple on the other hand... Get some 2nd rate hardware, throw it together as cheaply as possible, put it in a shiny case and whack an apple logo on it... then sell it for 50x what it's actually worth. Don't forget to make sure it only inter-operates with other overpriced crap with an apple logo on it.
Alright, slight exaggeration, but take iPod, iPhone 4... what goes into them is really pretty cheap and crappy. The laptops are ok, but there are cheaper/better alternatives provided you don't mind something that isn't shiny.
I don't therefore I'm not.
an absolute engineering marvel
Now THAT'S what I call reality distortion!
Required reading for internet skeptics
If they say that the story was "hyped up" enough times it will magically become true.
Required reading for internet skeptics
You know, it is not that easy to install OS X on a random PC Laptop. And it is not exactly legal either.
I use Macs because Windows just sucks. Every day I'm forced to use Windows on a random job, something suddenly goes wrong. And all peopler around me say: it is like that deal with it. The day to day experience with windows is just frustrating.
It starts with sleep mode, or the way how an anti virus software is opening a file and preventing it from being able to copy it etc. Or by being unable to overwrite it .... You know my Java IDE has just written that shiny object file, and the anti virus jumps on it to to "verify" it and my next build step is failing because the object file "is open" and can not be put into a zip (jar) file ... retarded.
The left side of a Windows Explorer window: it is always changing!!! ... WHY?
I want to search something, a file with a certain name pattern, I have to make several clicks to do that annoying!
I close the window and open it later again, AGAIN something else is on the left side
My neighbour installed a WLAN card into his PC, to connect to my WLAN. Took us *hours* to configure. Completely retarded dialogs to connect to a WLAN.
Why should I punish myself every day by using a windows pc?
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There's gold in them there FUD!
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
I would rate the two thinkpad's I have received from my employer as the two most shoddily built electronic devices I have ever owned. Complete crap. The things actually just break apart in normal use. I never had one last more than a year with out something breaking off. (with much less than daily use). My heavily used MBPs make it through 3-4 years without anything snapping off somehow.
Literally- A guy at work said "They don't want to make rubber dog shit anymore"
mod me funny
Funny how that works. I had an old Thinkpad (forget the model now, 600?). It was made in US IIRC. ... China.
Then I got a T21, Made in the UK (I thought that was a bit odd?).
T23 was Mexican, IIRC.
X24? Korea.
T42
And then the whole division was sold to the Chinese around then. Evolution I guess. And that's only going back fifteen years or so.
Sent from my PDP-11
What about the original ThinkPad line?
Anybody who thinks $1000 is a lot of money for a laptop needs something..
Yes the Acura is just like the Civic, maybe you should crawl out of your bubble and drive one.
I could build that, of course I know why putting a desktop CPU in something that I want to run with a battery is a bad idea... I am glad you enjoy your laptop, it seems clear you do not use it anywhere but on your desktop..
My 2007 MBP was about .5" thinner too..
Oh well Asus abandoned the home built laptop market for a reason.
I am also an
N=7
S=1
and that was a marginally loud fan on an MBP I had replaced.
The wikipedia article doesn't cite any sources for that though and the only reference I can find to outsourcing on falcon's website is "We don't outsource our technical support". I would be extremely surprised if what looks like a relatively small botique vendor was doing their own PCB design, fabrication and assembly rather than just buying in boards (possiblly with some customisation requests).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
N = 3
S = 1, but would've been 5 if not for warranty issues.
Looks scary until you see that three of the shop trips would've been because of my old iBook's power plug desoldering itself (the G4 iBook was built shoddily) and the other two were my first MacBook Pro failing because of the Geforce packaging flaw (which Apple had no control over).
I've had no Apple-attributable hardware failures since switching to an MBP and no hardware failures at all since getting a unibody MBP. Those things really are built well. Of course it's concerning to see that they shipped a unit built to such low standards but it remains to be seen if that's actually common. The new MBP might be a lemon or it might not and a single sample isn't going to tell us everything.
Of course Slashdot doesn't do followup stories anymore, else we could've gathered teardowns and, well, done one.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Until there build by only robots their built by low paid Asian workers.
Seriously do we have to pretend our brand names are so good. Hopefully their punished into better quality before I buy one.
It is the same old story, people comparing a top end Mac with a bottom end PC and then complaining about the price difference. Mac is now the first with the new intel stuff, so HOW exactly do they come up with this price comparison when there isn't a regular laptop out there with the same hardware?
Not that I think Apple is all that hot myself. They are to me the old sony. You pay a bit more then you should but know you get reasonable quality in return. In the real world, that matters. I might get the same cheaper but it might be crap or I can lots more and it can still be crap. Old Sony made good mid quality stuff that gave you the insurance that you got decent gear for an okay price. I would be wilinng to pay more for my ordinary hamburger if I knew that the service would always be great, the hamburger always hot etc etc. That MID range, decent quality for a decent price is VERY hard to nail. Cheap and crap is easy, expensive and good is easy. Hitting the middle reliable, that is where you can make a fortune.
Until you start cutting costs. Sony went bye bye. Apple is not imune to this. For all the Sony haters now, once they were a darling just like Apple is. The mighty do fall.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Of course they will trash today Apple after the bad joke of iFixit's iPhone Liberation Kit. They need this to help their Google score and certainly it is working. They are not the only one web site for macbook repair but is the most known, the guys at http://www.powerbookmedic.com/ for example haven't done any of iFixit's theatrical gestures buy they are fine, they don't have has many guides like iFixit but over time they will grow to be a good competitor.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
You are aware that Apple is the BIGGEST (not sure if they still are the top, but they are in the top three) pc maker in the world? What is limitted about selling more then Dell?
Almost every forum has people complaining. The simple fact is that Apple is middle of the road, not top end. A mainframe, that is top end hardware. There really aren't any top end PC makers, commodity hardware and quality don't mix. The top end cars are hand build machines, they do not come of a Chinese production line.
And as for the price, really, compare the specs. I can easily get a Thinkpad that costs the same if not more. Stop comparing your cheapo Dell with a mid-range Apple.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Believe me, I know plenty of people whose Apple products start going bad as early as 2 years after purchase.
Actually guess it is a matter of what series you chose, I have a T410 here provided by a customer, and this is one of the best built machines I have had my hands on for years, I would rate it more solid than my by now trusted macbook pro (which I would rate second)
Guess like most other manufacturers Lenovo runs a high quality line inherited from IBM and probably still done by the same designers and a cheapo line where things fall apart after looking at them for several years.
It is the same with Acer, Dell, and even Apple with their entry macbooks but there the distinction is made more clear.
Really? I only opened a MacBook for the first time a couple of months ago. It was a revelation.
There's a difference between disagreeing with someone's choice and screaming "YOU MADE THE WRONG CHOICE!" at the top of your lungs.
I happened to watch the latest episode of the Big Bang Theory and there was a quote by Sheldon that kind of sums up how a lot of the anti-Apple haters react to Apple users, "They were having fun the wrong way".
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Well, when the mainstream media is picking up the story and running a whole bunch of articles on the theme of "will this be the end Apple?", "Should you sell your Apple stock?" and asking industry experts if they think Apple is done for, that's hype.
Here in Sweden I saw several papers and magazines running stories where they asked various industry experts how big the problem was here in Sweden (with questions clearly phrased in a way that indicated they were fishing for worst case scenarios) but most of the replies they got were along the lines of "Nah, not that much of a problem here, we have a pretty solid 3G network with good reception, this is mostly a problem if you both hold the phone a very specific way and have poor reception to begin with".
But hey, if the hype-machine says the hype isn't hype it must be true. After all, it keeps repeating that mantra over and over again while chasing ad impressions...
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
This whole post is a great big steaming pile of flamebait. The author selectively chooses the two most negative comments and fails to report that the machine actually received a 7 out of 10 score from iFixit - a site dedicated to the complete disassembly of devices. Few other electronics products are subjected to this amount of scrutiny. One of the major drawbacks according to the site is that it's hard to replace the LCD. I'm sure it is, but how relevant is this to normal users?
iFixit is a great, in-depth source of pretty objective information for hardware enthusiasts. Computerworld manages to create a sensationalist article from that. How bad can tech journalism become?
For what it's worth, the R-series comes from IBM as well. Mine is a particularly interesting model: Lenovo software and labels, but an IBM logo molded into the case. It was manufactured right in the middle of the change, so it has both brands.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Okay, so ... what sets the otherwise commodity hardware so far ahead of the rest that it qualifies as a marvel of engineering? You know, that special class typically reserved for things like the pyramids of Giza and the Palm Deira of Dubai.
From my (objective) perspective, it's a just a typical home computer -- no more marvelous or astonishing than any other.
Required reading for internet skeptics
That would be like if you received a monitor with 15 dead pixels, it would have 15 faults.
No. Read Bradley's post again. 3 independent problems. 15 dead pixels equal one shoddy panel. In your monitor example you would have those 15 dead pixels, a loose DVI connector and a missing led. And the sum of that would very likely point to a lack of QA.
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
Sorry, I see what you're getting at. I'm not English so forgive the semantic interpretation I intended for the word 'marvel'.
I meant of course to compare it to current and recent laptop computers, not monumental construction in limestone.
For example, to compare to something new from another manufacturer like http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Xoom-Teardown/4989/1
They're not independent. They're all in the same unit, and so there is at the very least a time-of-assembly bias. So the best we can say is that *at some point* the QA has been flawed. We cannot extend that to larger time windows without further data.
The best newspaper in the USA: the Anderson Valley Advertiser.
I really get tired of people dinging foreign workers as cheap labor. Yeah, if you look at their dollar income earned it looks bad, but if you don't compare their income versus others in the region where they work you miss the big picture. Worse, people tend to look at the dollar amount and then assume that all living expenses are equal when they are not.
The problems like others stated are probably the result of a rush order process with insufficient time to work out the manufacturing kinks.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far.
If this was a brand spanking new retail unit, then the fact that the model bought by iFixit had manufacturing defects is certainly a cause for further investigation.
However, this was obtained on the day of release by a site dedicated to teardowns. They don't say how they obtained it, just "we got our hands on..." The faults they found sound consistent with the machine having been previously disassembled and reassembled. If they paid full whack for a new, production model, they should state this in the review, because it is entirely feasible to an outsider that they got their hands on an ex-review or pre-production model.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Hunh? "Foreign" workers are cheap labour, compared to US workers. That's not a slur, it's a statement of fact. It's also separate from the question of whether they're underpaid. You're arguing they're not because they're better compensated than many of their compatriots and because costs-of-living are lower. However, they still by and large live a life that you wouldn't swap for yours.
I would understand if for the price I'd get IPS screen. But Apple's screens are just "good" old TN ones. Granted, those of a bit better quality than ones on the cheap Acer notebooks - but it's still a TN, with screwed up vertical angles.
Readers' Choice: Apple Inc.
Oh and just in case you try to say it isn't skewed, let me quote another section:
CATEGORY: NETWORK ROUTERS Readers' Choice: Apple Inc.
Yeah, that "objective" data is really impressive.
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
I suspect that they don't do any direct outsourcing(other than possibly hiring some relatively local machinist/metalworking outfit to do custom waterblocks or cases or something, since setting up your own machine shop is a little messy, and there are plenty of fairly local outfits who will take modest sized lots); but they certainly do(if reviews are to be believed) buy standard "enthusiast" parts. That isn't direct outsourcing; but it means that the origins of most of the guts of their systems are exactly the same as those of everybody else. There just aren't that many options, nor do the sellers necessarily tell you which one you are getting.
Because of the economics of JIT supply chains and CPU/RAM/Option card level customization, it is fairly common for even bulk box guys to have a US(generally southern, because labor is cheaper) or northern Mexican(cheaper still) final-assembly facility, where finished components are put into cases according to customer demand. For systems that offer no customization, and just stock shelves at Worst Buy, all assembly may be done at point of origin; but for BTO systems the increased responsiveness of a domestic finishing step can make up for the higher labor costs...
You can always find some malcontent that has had problems with a particular "snooty" brand..
That sounds like my cue...
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
No, Apple targets suckers and hipsters who just THINK they're paying for quality.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
> You now have to be a fan-boy to buy Apple products? They are no
> longer available to the public? Since when? Do I need a badge? To
> join some kind of club?
Since they are more expensive than everything else and and largely incompatible with everything else, it helps.
It's an expensive prospect with a minimum buy in that tends to keep casual experimenters away.
The problem with computing has always been that you're not simply free to choose one platform from one day to the next because each platform is it's own proprietary island separate from all of the others. They each require a considerable investment. That investment is lost any time you switch.
At least PC hardware is cross-compatible and you can defect from one PC OEM to the next all day long if you are running Linux or Windows.
If you treat Apple as just another PC OEM, you may find that they aren't anything special after all.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
"studies show"
What does that mean exactly? How are those numbers created? Is there any flaw in the methodology.
As someone that once gathered such data. I gotta laugh at anyone that puts much stock in "studies".
Stockholm Syndrome might skew those numbers something considerable. There might also be issues with Apple products that go unnoticed because the users are ignorant or aren't particularly demanding. The whole "why-does-Aspyr-hate-my-mac" thing is probably a good example of that.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
So? Out of PC users generally, I've known very few that have actually had to "take their machines into the shop".
The problem that most people have with most PCs is the OS and it's ability to get itself infected.
The hardware is actually pretty solid for the most part.
That's the absurd bit about how Mac Fanboys always try to insist that it's all about the hardware.
Macs have a better resale value for the same reason that some out of print DVD from some obscure TV show has an absurd resale value.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
What do you "independent problems". 3 problems on the same machine can point to one individual doing a crappy job on one machine. Not independent. Now if we were to do a thorough test, like buy a thousand machines, and find systematic problems with them, then it becomes a real QA issue.
or just the one they took apart? /s
I think the problem comes from the word cheap. It has two connotations-- inexpensive and low quality. I agree that "cheap" labor isn't automatically inferior -- it would be quite easy to hire some expensive poor workers in America and also have it assembled incorrectly. As for the article, stripping screws happens, and other than tossing the part, what can a worker really do to fix it? Often there is enough redundancy in the design that it doesn't matter.
You've obviously never repaired someone's compaq laptop that had the cpu heatsink come lose because it was screwed down to nuts that were soldered to the top of the motherboard -- in essence, the heatsink was attached via solder! and this was on a laptop - a machine that would get jarred around quite a bit.
No, Apple can charge more because they're Apple, not because they actually have a higher quality build or contain system specs that are better than any similar machine. For $1,800, you could get a helluva lot more for your money than what you're paying for at the Apple store. They're great at marketing, and that's why you pay double than what you should.
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
Yes, it would be nicer to have a larger sample size. But just to point out, the antennae issue wasn't "hype". It was a poor design. That's fact.
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
As a gadet geek, I upgraded hardware in that period... but simply transferred everything from one machine to another. And yes, I have upgraded the OS... but that was not anything near a Windows re-install experience. In the past 5 years, I've "retired" 3 windows machines at home, so I'm well aware of the comparative effort associated with their normal use and maintenance. The Apple experience just lets me do the work I get paid to do.
Your jealousy is amusing.
The only real way to check for stripped screws is to test the torque on every single screw. Do you really suggest that QA should do that? They'd probably cause more failures checking screw torque than they would ever catch.
Dude, it is not the problem of "installing" the hardware. It is the supposed to be simple task to connect to an actual network or to set up your own one. ... 5 seconds perhaps? If I click a bit slower ... 15 seconds?
Incompetent? No idea. It took you 10 Minutes to set that up when you where picking up some medicals for your father? It sounds more like you are incompetent. On my mac it is
Then perhaps you should learn german to read it properly. And as a side note the last part I quoted from you makes you liable for a libel and defamation case. You should get some manners imho ;D
Best Regards
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
When a machine passes QA despite showing 3 unrelated problems each of which should have raised a red flag on its own then at least two people screwed up: The one who assembled it and the one who signed off on its QA pass. Whether it really is a systemic issue or not only time will tell once sufficient numbers have been shipped. But it does show that there is a problem in the process. Such a machine should not have left the facility.
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
The only one who is a little bit stupid here is obviously you.
Have fun on bashing ppl that can not use windows without a proper training first ;D
Configuring a network should cost no time at all, as I said (you seem the illiterate/dump idiot here, installing is a synonym for "configuration" as configuring is a required step of installing ... sigh ... at least in my wording. If you could speak german as you just claimed, you would now that. But thanx, in future I will distinguish between hardware installing, hardware configuring (do you even know what a jumper is?) software installing and software configuring ...). If The dialogs for configurations are not understandable for me, then my Grandma can't understand them either. I never talked about opening a case. A typical Mac either has WLAN installed or a case that is open in 2 seconds. (So no "installing" in this case, and that you should have KNOWN!)
You should start to get a clue what you are talking about.
I'm an incompetent coder because I can - according to your terms - not configure a WLAN adapter? ROFL, the guy for whom I did it, COULD NOT DO IT AT ALL!
And that is windows fault, not my fault, and he is a windows user. So in other words: a standard windows user can not configure a new bought WLAN card. WHY? Why don't you wonder about that? Why do you think it is necessary to be a competent expert for that?
Can you change a wheel on your car? I think my 6 year old nephew can do that, I hope you can as well. And granted: he is not an expert.
My job as a consultant has NOTHING to do with WLAN configuration, what a laugh .... So where does your hatred come from? Because google translate translated my website wrong for you, rofl ... perhaps.
Go get a chill pill. Insulting ppl because they can not configure WLAN on a Windows PC is ridiculous.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Gizmo wrote:
Somebody's first day on the job could result in a machine like the one shown here.
QA should factor in new employees and anyone's work on their "first day on the job" should be monitored much more closely than that of experienced workers. Of course QA cannot disassemble every unit just to make sure everything is 100% OK. But the suggestion that a lack of experience on the worker's part somehow absolves a company from blame when they ship a faulty product is absurd.
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
My, my, you are a touchy little German, aren't you?
Go ahead a play pretend that your gross incompetence is somehow the fault of the operating system.
The only one who is a little bit stupid here is obviously you.
Obviously? Seems to me that you're the one who can't read with any significant degree of comprehension or handle very basic computer tasks.
Configuring a network should cost no time at all
Yet it took you hours. How sad and pathetic.
as I said (you seem the illiterate/dump idiot here, installing is a synonym for "configuration" as configuring is a required step of installing
You're not only a sad and pathetic little illiterate cry-baby German, you're also a LIAR.
From your original post:
My neighbour installed a WLAN card into his PC, to connect to my WLAN. Took us *hours* to configure
You describe installation and configuration are separate tasks. I did the exact same thing. So, you're both illiterate AND a liar.
Your inability to read and comprehend is not my fault. Perhaps you should take some adult basic literacy classes. You would benefit greatly from them.
My job as a consultant has NOTHING to do with WLAN configuration, what a laugh
I should hope not -- you're clearly not capable of completing even the most basic tasks. If it took you "hours" to connect a single computer a wireless network at a clients site, then your complete technical incompetence would be exposed. I'm absolutely amazed that you get any work at all. Perhaps you don't -- you've already shown yourself to be a liar.
Have fun on bashing ppl that can not use windows without a proper training first
No, I'm bashing on YOU because you claim to have the necessary technical skills to perform basic tasks. As you claim in your original post:
Every day I'm forced to use Windows on a random job
So ... Your a consultant who uses Windows every day, yet you can't handle simple tasks like connecting to a network. Some "consultant" you must be!
Insulting ppl because they can not configure WLAN on a Windows PC is ridiculous.
I'm not insulting "people" because they can't configure a WLAN on windows -- I'm insulting YOU. You claim to be a "consultant" but can't perform basic tasks in an operating system you claim to use every day.
Yeah, you deserve to be insulted. Perhaps you'll stop causing your clients problems and get a job more suited to your cognitive capabilities -- like digging ditches or stocking shelves.
Required reading for internet skeptics
That there is typical fanboi. Because they spent a billion dollars on it it must be better. Like because some idiot spends more an an ipod than they would on an equivalent iriver, the lower specs of the ipod are somehow magically better? If they spent so much on it, it kind of shows they are idiots, but thankfully there are enough idiots out there who will buy the crap.
I wouldn't call Macbook Pros a triumph of industrial design, they're ok, but "triumph" is a bit over the top... and for what you get, they are too expensive. The windows tax is bad enough, the apple tax is ridiculous.
I have no problem with polycarbonate cases. I am more concerned about how well the machines are assembled and how much freedom I have to do what I want with them... right down to ordering them with my choice of OS and partitioning.
I don't therefore I'm not.
Americans are not addicted to buying shiny junk if they have to replace it time and again. Most items are grossly over priced considering the cost of labor that goes in to products built in china, certainly when they cost as much as when those object were made in the US. I don't know anyone that isn't concerned about buying a lower priced product. If they were not, then brands like Samsung, Sony, and even Apple would not be around. The off brands that a WAY cheaper would become the dominate brands. They don't because people don't want to keeping having to by a product over and over again when it breaks. You can only get a person to buy a crappy product so many times if quality and breakage seems to happen quite frequently.
That there is typical fanboi. Because they spent a billion dollars on it it must be better. Like because some idiot spends more an an ipod than they would on an equivalent iriver, the lower specs of the ipod are somehow magically better? If they spent so much on it, it kind of shows they are idiots, but thankfully there are enough idiots out there who will buy the crap.
My comment had nothing to do with how MUCH they spent; but rather that that they spent ANY money on CUSTOM silicon, instead of using some POS Atom or some other, less optimized, bog-standard microcontroller like others have done with their Tablet and other "mobile" offerings. And it is precisely because of Apple's investment in the A4 custom SoC that the current crop of iOS devices are able to whip all over the performance and battery life specs of the competition. The money wasn't spent on "teh shiny", it was spent on "teh SPECS". What is "cheap and crappy" is what EVERYONE else is doing in response to the iPad; that is, rushing some half-baked, inferior (the displays alone! UGH!) product out (or, in other words, every single Android tablet released after the iPad), in a (really) pathetic attempt to play "catch up" with Apple's success.
I wouldn't call Macbook Pros a triumph of industrial design
You are entitled to your incorrect opinion, of course. ;-)
, they're ok, but "triumph" is a bit over the top... and for what you get, they are too expensive. The windows tax is bad enough, the apple tax is ridiculous.
I have no problem with polycarbonate cases. I am more concerned about how well the machines are assembled and how much freedom I have to do what I want with them... right down to ordering them with my choice of OS and partitioning.
Ok, you DO realize that, since OS X comes pre-installed on every single Apple computer, the OS is, for all intents and purposes, FREE (as in beer), and yet, there is still nothing stopping you from wiping (or just simply re-partitioning) the HD (don't even have to lose what you have already in most cases), and installing Linux, and/or Windows in a multi-boot configuration, or, if you want concurrent operation of multiple OSes, through one of the hypervisor-based virtualization products available.
So, did you have a point, again?
REPLY:
E150-SERIES looks crap, not full sized lcd, price difference is not that huge. We arent poor students here any more, ipod is affordable.
COMMENT: ;-)
macbooks look nice, but 1 usb port sucks (at least one model had that), but I just get the cheapo winlaptops. Not much more in $ than an ipod
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I'll see your COBOL, and raise you a FORTRAN.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
No disagreement here, and I certainly never claimed it absolved them from blame. I only wanted to point out that in some manufacturing processes all these problems could be caused by a single point of failure, and does not necessarily imply widespread deficiencies in the assembly process.
The person I was replying to implied that since there were several different problems there must be lots of people on the assembly line who were making mistakes. I just meant to point out that that is not necessarily the case.
Who is the illiterate here? ...
I dont use windows every day. I'm sometimes forced to use it, like using Word on Windows. Or any other obscure program that only runs on windows. So my sentence reads: every time I have
The rest of your post is insulting and completely childish again.
To make it as simple as possible for you:
a) why has windows (on that particular machine) no "connect to WLAN" dialog in the "system preferences"? In other words, why do I need the driver program (its not a driver ofc, just a silly program coming with the card) which is shown in the system tray to connect? Can you answer this simple question?
b) why does that said program open a dialog with seven tabs, which all contain random information like the MAC adress of the WLAN adapter which is at that state irrelevant?
So: one final question to you smart guy. Why does that program in its dialog have not one singel tab where you only enter the network name (preferable via drop down menu showing all available networks) and the password for the network?
Hm? You know why such a simple thing is not provided? No?
Then just shut up ... rofl.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Who is the illiterate here?
You are. I thought I had made this very clear to you. Oh, wait. You're illiterate so you probably didn't comprehend what I had written.
I dont use windows every day.
Well, then you're a LIAR because you said that you did. I quote:
Every day I'm forced to use Windows on a random job
I'm done with you. I have better things to do with my time that talk to an illiterate lying pathetic little German.
Required reading for internet skeptics
You can not read, or?
I though you where a native english speaker, obviously you are not.
That sentence does not mean that I'm using windows every day.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Every day I'm forced to use Windows on a random job
That's EXACTLY what it means. I guess your English skills are on-par with your computer skills.
Like I said, I'm done with you. You're an sad and pathetic little illiterate liar. People like you disgust me.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Perhaps you should scroll far far back and read what you wrote so far, or you make really an idiot of your self.
Every day (when) I'm forced to use Windows on a random job then you forgot to quote the rest of the sentence, so I allowed myself to do the same. I inserted the superfluous word "when" which seem not to add in your mind when such a sentence is parsed. So you have now a chance to clearly understand that sentence.
BTW: you should keep in mind that with insulting me every singel post you make, you undermine your reputation in this "forum" very badly. However I guess that this is not important for you as you are obviously only a random troll.
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
You are so unimaginably pathetic! Are you still trying to defend your total incompetence?
Seriously, you need to relax. There's no shame in admitting your gross inadequacies. You may even learn to overcome them some day.
you should keep in mind that with insulting me every singel post you make, you undermine your reputation in this "forum" very badly
Yeah, the only thing undermining my reputation on this forum is arguing with an idiot like you.
Required reading for internet skeptics
So you would spend more on an iPood with shittier sound because it has a bigger screen? I'm just curious here, I use my phone to play music (it even lets me listen to FM radio).
I don't therefore I'm not.
Yeah thanx for the help.
I read your other threads, and you always claim that your "conversation" partner can not read.
And you always claim that he is an idiot.
After realizing that it seems pointless to show you your mistakes ;D
Good Luck ...
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Are you seriously still obsessing over this? Wow, that's incredibly pathetic of you!
you always claim that your "conversation" partner can not read. And you always claim that he is an idiot.
Only an illiterate idiot would make such an absurd claim. I had a rather nice discussion with someone who wasn't an idiot not very long ago.
Since you're pathetically obsessed with me, you should go make an attempt to read it.
Required reading for internet skeptics
I only expect an apologize for your insults.
But you have not the guts to admit that you where wrong and quoted me wrong and can't read or understand sentences correctly that start with "Every*".
If you call that obsession, thats your problem.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Ha Ha!
It's hard to believe that you're STILL upset! Seriously, you need to relax, it's really sad and pathetic.
Honestly, when I pointed out your gross incompetence, you should have just let it go.
You know what, here's some advice you could use: Stop advertising your mental failures on the internet. It would help you avoid situations like this which clearly cause you serious mental anguish.
It's hard to believe, but I'm actually *still laughing* about how pathetic you are!
Required reading for internet skeptics
As I said before, your whistle blowing and doing as nothing had happend wont help you.
I want an apologize for calling me a liar.
I want an apologize for calling me incompetent.
I want an apologize for getting wrong citated and getting my words turned around in a way I never said/wrote them
If you can not do that, than I call you a dishonest liar yourself.
You seem not to have the guts or the wisdom to see your own mistakes and to admit them.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I want an apologize for calling me a liar.
I want an apologize for calling me incompetent.
Good luck with that.
I don't apologize to incompetent liars.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Hm,
so you keep insulting me. Sorry, I don't get your point. I disproved every argument you made. You are wrong. So you should admit it and apologize.
Is it because I'm german and you hate germans?
Anyway, behaving like a little child and running around claiming bullshit is not good for your karma, so you should apologize and I forget it.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Do you know how sad and pathetic you are?
I mocked you for your gross incompetence almost five days ago -- and you're STILL bothered by it.
It's really funny -- well, to me anyhow.
You really need to get over this. I'm starting to worry that this exchange has caused you permanent psychological damage.
You should probably see a psychiatrist. I Just hope that he doesn't ALSO mock you for being pathetic and incompetent.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Psychiatrist is the wrong profession. I indeed consider to figure your real name and real live address and send you a nice letter from a lawyer.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.