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Okian Warrior writes "A man in Weare, New Hampshire was charged with felony wiretapping for recording the police during a traffic stop — based on a cell phone call he made as an officer approached his vehicle. From the article: Police considered it wiretapping because the call was being recorded by a voice mail service without the officer's consent."
Good one mate! That's what I call British humour!
PS. I live in the UK too and I have to keep my blinds shut due to the traffic camera firmly pointed towards my bedroom window.
Unless they were on private property? Even if the car is considered private property, unless the officer was sitting in the passenger seat, anyone can record anything they want anywhere if it is in public. That is the premise for most all security cameras and recordings anywhere ever.
That's odd...because many (if not most) states have systems whereby the actions in front of the car are recorded on video, and audio is captured from a microphone on the officer. The basis for this not needing a warrant is common law precedent that during a traffic stop there is no expectation of privacy...so how is there an expectation of privacy if it's the person being stopped who does the recording?
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Funny how every time I hear of a case like this it's a cop being recorded. Since they are public servants shouldn't it be legal to record them if they are on duty? This is strictly about them not wanting records when they do something wrong. With current technology I think they should have at least audio recording of on duty police officers. It would be valuable evidence that would help back up the cops testimony. I think it shows how often there is wrong doing by cops given how violently opposed they are to recordings. I still remember the video taping of a cop slamming a kid into the trunk of a car in LA. They made all sorts of excuses but it was inexcusable behavior. The kid was handcuffed and unconscious when he got slammed in the trunk. It actually woke him up when he hit the car after they beat him unconscious. His crime? He was filling up the car while his father sat inside. It was a case of mistaken identity but the cops consider everyone guilty until proven innocent. FYI I've got two family members that were cops but I also lived 25 years in LA and had some very bad experiences with them.
It's not abuse, it's almost certain to be the natural extension of the law. The laws on wiretapping don't generally specify the methods that are used to do the actual recording, so an audio recording of any sort is equal to any other. If you're in a 2 party consent state, then this sort of prosecution is to be expected, if the person did the recording, which it sounds like he did, then he'll end up being charged and likely convicted.
By your logic, if I am in line at Dunkin Donuts and the person in front of me (Joe) is on the phone leaving a message while I'm talking to my friend then Joe is guilty of illegal wiretapping.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law - Aleister Crowley
Why is it that the police, aka public servants, are elevated to near untouchable status with these discriminatory laws ?
If you work for the government, be it federal, provincial/state or municipal, your actions are liable to be scrutinized by the public. Police should not be an exception. They get too many "magic rights" that allow them to dominate the public they were hired to serve. If cops weren't wrongly treated as superheroes in the law, they might start behaving a little less like spoiled bullies and more like human beings again. And I dare to dream that the career would attract a lower proportion of psychopaths (seriously, look it up if you don't believe me).
-Billco, Fnarg.com
If the common man that that healthy a level of disrespect for tyranny, the cameras never would have made it up in the first place.
More likely he'd be the one to call the authorities on you.
MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
A public official has no expectation of privacy while going about their official duties... Believing anything else is insanity.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
1 The charge itself is effectively a punishment.
2 The Wiretap statute doesn't apply.
Abuse.
Cops like to do this to scare people from recording them. Many of the instances I've read about, this ends up being thrown out. They want to cover their ass, rather than serve and protect. This type of "scope creep" should be strongly discouraged.
When you use the phrase "natural extension" of a law; I can't help thinking that makes it whimsical. "The law is what I SAY it is!"
"Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
Yes, you have the right to be spied on and have your every movement and action monitored. You have the right to have your children arrested for climbing a tree (if you don't recall, it was on slashdot a year or two ago, where three 12 year olds were arrested for climbing a tree and inadvertently damaging the bark in the process). You have the right to be forced to be financially responsible for other people. The list goes on.
I'm completely with you on the whole "The US is crap with a psychotic government" issue. The problem is, the rest of the world is worse. If there were a better country to move to, I'd gladly let the TSA fondle my balls before I say "Fuck off America, I'm free!" as I board the plane.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
It's a lot harder for them to 'lose' the recording if they do something wrong when you do the recording.
Wear a tool belt (keep the wire cutters there), work clothes, and a hard hat... nobody will look twice.
Actually, these laws having been around for a while, nuances like this HAVE been worked out. Both the question of whether communication during a traffic stop is a communication subject to the law, and whether or not an incidental interception like this is covered. Even if they've been worked out in a way which is not to the cops favor, however, the cops will keep arresting based on them, because there's no cost to them to do so. Thus, the cops make their own law regardless of what legislators or judges actually say. Until cops start getting serious penalties, meaning dismissal AND jail time, for doing this sort of thing, they'll keep doing it. Without looking at the case law (which I don't have access to), there's a few problems with the cop's point of view. The second-biggest is this:
If you're talking to someone who is openly using a cell phone, you cannot reasonably justify an expectation that what you say will not reach the other party in the conversation. Since it's an interception whether or not the other party is recording, it doesn't matter that he had voice mail on the other end. The biggest, however, is this one:
That's right: telephone equipment is specifically excluded. Assuming his voicemail was provided by his carrier, that's excluded too. He's innocent by black-letter law, and the cops are committing a clear abuse by arresting him under the circumstances.
"If you're in a 2 party consent state, then this sort of prosecution is to be expected, if the person did the recording, which it sounds like he did, then he'll end up being charged and likely convicted."
Just plain wrong.
In nearly every state -- including those with "all party" (not "2 party") consent laws -- it is only illegal to record if the other party has not given permission, AND that party has a reasonable expectation of privacy!!!
When events occur in public, nobody has "a reasonable expectation of privacy". That is not just my opinion, that has been the consistent court ruling. There have probably been a few redneck judges who have deviated from this precedent, but if so they are in the minority.
Further, if the policeman has a dashboard camera that is running (most of the time these days during a traffic stop), then even if it did not take place on the public streets, the officer still has no reasonable expectation of privacy, because he knows the events are being recorded (usually with sound via the officer's radio).
So, in almost all parts of the United States, it is legal to record the police while they are on duty, at least in public. And not just video, but sound as well. And that has also been the consistent ruling by judges when cases like this have gone to court. Municipalities all around the United States have been having to pay heavy damages for false prosecution and rights violations when people have gotten charged with crimes for recording.
Just as an aside: collection agencies and other such entities also do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy when they begin a conversation with a live or recorded statement that "this conversation may be recorded for quality assurance purposes" or the like. Record away on your end. And then use it in court against them if the situation arises.