Utah Works To Repeal Anti-Transparency Law

Foldarn writes "Recently on Slashdot, Utah's Governor was honored with the Blackhole Award. Governor Herbert has now released a statement and a meeting with a concrete date to repeal the opaque law from the books in an effort to stay in offi... err, restore confidence in the public. The law added time for lawmakers to respond to information requests, removed the number of items that can be requested, and increased the prices of those same items. It's currently scheduled to become law this summer."

Comments

Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[marbike]

This bill got passed thanks to some legislative tomfoolery that is apparently quite legal in Utah. The legislative leadership can bypass the normal process for introducing bills if it happens in the last days of legislation. This bill got fast tracked and bypassed normal debate. Once it was passed, the outcry was enough to have the Governor and some others think that it was worth a repeal. The working group to re-write the bill will hopefully not screw it up a second time.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[hey!]

I've thought for many years that legislative bodies should have some kind of electronic revision control system that requires changes to be authenticated wtih a legislator's digital signature. It's wouldn't be technically hard, and you'd know who put what feature into a bill. In this case we only know that the bill was put through with the connivance of the legislature's leading officers, but even so they'd be less ready to do that if the offensive language had their signature (or shall we say fingerprints?) on it.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[MobyDisk]

[1] This bill got fast tracked and bypassed normal debate. [3] Once it was passed,

Whoaa!! Slow down! You missed the step [2] where representatives voted in support of a bill that did not receive any debate. Every person who voted on a piece of legislation, without reading it, without seeing a debate on it, should be impeached. They are not keeping to the oaths they swore.

I wonder if this happened 100 years ago if they probably really would be impeached. Today, this is just standard operating procedure. Truly truly sad.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[hedwards]

Because most illegal aliens are here illegally because the visa process is absurd.

However, 12 month is way to short a period time for something as serious as citizenship. It takes time for a person to adequately acculturate to the point where they can function independently in society. Or to demonstrate the commitment necessary to be a US citizen.

Countries which don't do that frequently end up with populations which are essentially disenfranchised sort of the way that blacks were after the civil war, but with the ability to vote. Which is a really bad situation for all involved.

As it is the process takes just shy of 5 years in most cases or just shy of 3 years in other cases.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[h4rr4r]

If Utah wants to do that why not?

The whole illegal aliens thing is quite easy to solve anyway, incarcerate the person who is directly responsible for hiring any illegal and the CEO of the company. Also fine the company $25k per day per illegal worker. If no one was hiring them they would not be crossing the border.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[cobrausn]

This is such a stupid comparison and I'm tired of hearing it. Illegal immigrants are not 'akin' to the Europeans who migrated to America in nearly any way. Maybe if when they came over they tried to join the Iroquois nation, maybe. But they didn't - they just took what they wanted and killed those who fought back. Not the same thing.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[Teancum]

If this happened 100 years ago in Utah, the People's Party would have simply held a sustaining vote on any legislation... that came from the 1st Presidency's office.

While the LDS Church doesn't get involved much any more with legislation like that, the political leadership likes to think they have a calling from God himself to be in the positions they are at... forgetting that Utah public officials don't represent just Latter-day saints nor are they really acting with much piety either. It is simply raw thirst for power.

Utah has seen the restoration of the People's Party and the Liberal Party.... they've just changed names. Neither major political party in Utah really resembles much the national parties they are nominally associated with.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[vux984]

It takes time for a person to adequately acculturate to the point where they can function independently in society. Or to demonstrate the commitment necessary to be a US citizen.

Seattle is a 2.5 hour drive from here, English is my first language, I'm educated and I'm in good health. I know american politics, geography, and history better than the average american. Oh... I get it... that's the problem.

It would indeed take some time to make the switch to a diet of twinkies and booze to put on enough weight and kill enough brain cells to properly acculturate, and demonstrate the commitment necessary to be a US citizen.

I kid, I kid. :p

But that said, in all seriousness, I'd visit more often if your border agents weren't such arrogant asses.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[517714]

No they were not

• 1790 Congress passed law requiring two year residency prior to applying for citizenship. Prior to this residency requirements varied by state.
• 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts required 14 years residency before citizenship
• 1800 Revised to 5 years residency

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[scot4875]

If you outlaw all employers employing illegal aliens, only illegal employers will employ illegal aliens - and suddenly you get a large illegal sector in your economy, not paying any taxes, not obeying any laws. If this is your goal, then proceed.

You've just described the system that WE ALREADY HAVE.

--Jeremy

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[whoever57]

However, 12 month is way to short a period time for something as serious as citizenship. It takes time for a person to adequately acculturate to the point where they can function independently in society

Where do you get 12 months from? There may be exceptions for some people, but normally, it is 5 years spent in the USA after the time you got your green card after before you can apply for citizenship.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[Attila Dimedici]

Where do you get 12 months from?

From the poster he was replying to, who said that he thought citizenship should take 12 months.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[badboy_tw2002]

Goes both ways. I go often and every time get a grilling like I'm there to take all your maple syrup, Molson's, and juicy free healthcare back with me.

Re:Let's hope they don't screw it up.

[Sique]

The employer might actually do you a service.

1. Illegal immigrants will come. The conditions in the regions they come from are so bad that you can't make it worse. You might try to wage a war against parts of your population Mexico style to get close though. So any idea to repell illegal immigrants by being evil is useless and evil at the same time.
2. Once they are here you have to deal with them. You can try to catch as much as you get to send them back. But then the illegal immigrants will just start to hide better. Underground organisations specialised in hiding illegal immigrants will get stronger.
3. The illegal immigrants will look for things to do to make a living. You effectively blocked out any legal work for them, so every occupation they will take is illegal. They will work in drug and human trafficking, They will be paid thugs to underground king pins. They will start ponzi schemes, operate document forgeries, blackmailing any company that provides cheap labor in either working with them or closing up shop and move on.
4. In the end you will have your problems to the power of x.

Go figure

[Hatta]

A state run by religious conservatives is also highly authoritarian. Who would have thought?

Re:Go figure

[Zorque]

When was the last time you heard anyone complain about "illegals" from anywhere but South America? It is racist.

Re:Go figure

[Antisyzygy]

Illegal immigrants are doing jobs no American wants to do. I see it all over down here in Texas. Most Americans are shooting for a job in some facet of business. Illegal immigrants cannot do these jobs, so they do janitorial / house cleaning, basic labor, construction, and lawn maintenance. When is the last time you saw a born and bred American actively trying to do one of those jobs or complaining that they couldn't do one of those jobs because of the damn illegals? Sure, they don't deserve health care benefits and welfare if they don't pay taxes, but I see no threat from them in the job category.

Slashdot standards are slipping

[Anonymous Coward]

That previous /. story on the Blackhole award had over 150 comments on it and not a single crack about Goatse! How is this stuff that maters?

Are we sure about his motives?

[Tigger's Pet]

Is Governor Herbert really trying to "restore confidence in the public"? Are we sure he's not trying to restore their confidence in him? I'm not sure that anyone would ever have confidence in the public as a whole - small groups and individuals are fine, but beyond that...

What the real goal is here

[Teancum]

The purpose of this special session is to deliberately derail the referendum drive so that the effort to put this onto the ballot in November is completely wiped out. Right now there is an effort to collect about 100,000 signatures state-wide to put this onto the general election ballot this year (which is normally just for municipal elections in Utah) and that effort is gaining steam and public support.

Very likely, if this stays in the public spotlight, it will mean the end of the elective office careers of many of these state legislators, and they know it. It is also likely that this legislation is going to be repealed through the ballot box, and these guys want to stop that process.

What they are trying to do here is to repeal the law that has all of these signatures and will be defeated by the voters of this state, and instead introduce a whole new law to take its place... a law that says essentially the very same thing and causes the same problems that is gaining all of the attention. As a new law, they can quash the referendum drive completely.

A really cute thing about this tactic is that the laws in Utah governing the ability to put up a referendum do not take into account legislation put forward in a special session, so effectively they are vetoing the will of the citizens at the ballot box on this particular issue. If it weren't for the fact that I'm so ticked off at the legislators pulling these tactics and the fact they wrote these exemptions explicitly to keep the public under their heels, I would call this stinking brilliant. Brilliant like a dictator, but none the less brilliant. The Supreme Soviet was never this good at ignoring public opinion.

Re:What the real goal is here

[jlechem]

Sadly it's not the first time they've done this. Utah legislators get all uppity with any kind of citizen voted initiatives. Like we the people don't know how to govern ourselves. All of this because they don't want their text messages and emails to be public. If you don't want it to be public don't sext your wife during the legislative session.