Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Apple Wins a Round In Patent Battle With Nokia

Posted by timothy on from the surely-sequels-will-follow dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Apple [Friday] won a battle in an ongoing legal war with Nokia over patents that touch on pretty much all of Apple's product line. Since 2009, Apple and Nokia have sued and countersued each other into oblivion. In one particular legal action from May 2010, Nokia filed suit against Apple with a complaint to the ITC (International Trade Commission) alleging that Apple's iPhone and iPad 3G infringe on 5 of Nokia's patents."

13 of 90 comments (clear)

  1. Sued into oblivion? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Informative

    They may have been suing each other ad nauseum, but I assure you both Apple and Nokia still exist and are still considered rather relevant in their particular segments of the industry.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Sued into oblivion? by pieterh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nokia has suffered really badly from a split personality over the years, where its patent-driven business clashed with its open source business. The end result is that Nokia was unable to make use of open source in any real way, even though it had years to get it right. Consequence: Android easily beats Nokia. Now Apple is in a better position but it still has trouble making use of large chunks of the open source world, again because of conflicts with their patent-driven business.

      So it may well still end in oblivion. It really does come down to sheer ability to compete and move rapidly, and patents don't help this, they are essentially a 19th century anti-competition anti-trade device aimed at giving a firm 20 years in which to not have to compete. Not an excellent strategy in the 21st century.

      Any firm that has to resort to patent lawsuits is already dead.

      --
      My blog
    2. Re:Sued into oblivion? by Weezul · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple is the bad guy using patents anti-compeditively in this case. Apple simply ignored Nokia's patents on real shit, but sues everyone over their unjust patents on user interfaces. Apple might have simply ignored Nokia while they pursued minor Android users, but Nokia had the grace to make Apple fight a big boy first.

      Imho, the best case scenario would be Apple's patents all being torn down, and serious review of Nokia's patents as well.

      An amusing scenario that'd showcase the stupidity of the patent system would be : Apple ends up unable to sell iPhone in Europe, while Nokia ends up unable to sell Windws Phone 7 phones in the U.S., i.e. your oblivion situation. Ain't likely though.

      Also, Maemo was a far better & way more open operating system than Android.

      --
      The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    3. Re:Sued into oblivion? by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually Nokia started this with Apple, not the other way around. From what I recall, Apple's countersuit against Nokia involved unreasonable licensing terms (Nokia wanted more from Apple than from others it had licensed the tech to including demands for generous cross licensing from the iPhone patent pool), and they also accused Nokia of pulling a Rambus (establishing a standard and then later coming in with submarine patents on their own designs).

      From TFA:

      In October 2009 Nokia sued Apple for patent infringement claiming that a number of Apple products used Nokia technology as it pertains to wireless connectivity and GSM networks. Never one to back down from a legal fight, Apple countersued and accused Nokia of infringing on 13 patents held by Apple.

      An interesting read regarding the back and forth between Nokia and Apple:
      [ref: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/11/apple-countersues-nokia-for-infringing-13-patents/ ]

      Apple also says Nokia wanted unreasonable license terms for the patents, including a cross-license for Apple's various iPhone device patents as part of any deal, which Apple clearly wasn't willing to do. That's in stark contrast to what Nokia says it wants in its lawsuit -- all it's asked the court for is past due license fees on its patents. (Which is odd, if you think about it: Nokia wouldn't come to terms on a license that didn't include iPhone patents, but it'll spend the cash on litigation for past due fees? That seems silly.) Oh, and if you're just in this for the bitchy quotes, here you go:

      As Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's executive Vice President and General Manager of Multimedia, stated at Nokia's GoPlay event in 2007 when asked about the similarities of Nokia's new offerings to the already released iPhone:"[i]f there is something good in the world, we copy with pride." True to this quote, Nokia has demonstrated its willingness to copy Apple's iPhone ideas as well as Apple's basic computing technologies, all while demanding Apple pay for access to Nokia's purported standards essential patent.

      Nokia wasn't interested in just getting fees for it's patents. They badly needed an 'in' into the smartphone market and they knew it. They also demanded the rights to cross license various iPhone patents as part of their lawsuit against Apple. They basically were shut out of the smartphone industry and Apple being the new guy on the block in the phone industry probably looked like their best chance at that.

  2. outcome by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative
    In case anyone was wondering was the actual victory was, since the summary doesn't mention, I forced myself to read the article to find out. The ITC (International Trade Commission) ruled that Apple has violated none of the five patents. The rest of the court must agree with the finding before it becomes final. The article describes the patents in question:

    The patents in question relate to technologies for enhanced speech and data transmission, using positioning data in applications and innovations in antenna configurations that improve performance and save space, allowing smaller and more compact devices

    Yes, apparently Apple did not copy anyone else when they made their iPhone 4 antenna. And yes, there is a joke in there.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  3. Infringement usually pretty clear by kanweg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Usually it is pretty clear whether there is infringement or not. Of course, there are the odd-ball cases where it is possible to quarrel over meanings of terms in the main claim (and that's what is usually done in court but if the arguments aren't good you're not going to win). But to imagine that Nokia's attorneys made 5 out of 5 wrong judgement calls is, well, strange.

    Patent matters being handled in the US by non-specialized courts is not the best of things. If the ITC is equally competent then that is not the best of things too.

    The reasoning behind the ruling is not yet available, according to TFA.

    Bert

  4. Seems clear to me by Reed+Solomon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apple clearly invented everything and Nokia didn't. Apple has existed since the 50's when they signed the Beetles then became a computer company in the 70's once John left the band. Nokia didn't start to exist until they invented Snake in the early 90's and coasted on that fame up until snake 2 and diminishing returns on their Snake based empire. I'm glad that lawyers exist to punish companies that aren't Apple for stealing from Apple.

  5. Re:Wait an MS "Partner" in a proxy battle?!?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Sith are always acting behind the scenes. Elop's rise at Nokia was merely the unveiling -- the Palpatine usurpation of the Emperor title.

  6. And Consumers Get Their Ass Kicked by Shihar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you want to know why smart phones are $600+ a pop, crap like this is why. The patent arsenals these companies amass are there to destroy competition and nothing else. It isn't like Apple or Nokia would stop innovating if suddenly they didn't have patent protection. What it would mean is that 600 Silicon Valley startups could also jump into the cell phone game and drive the price into the dirt and innovation through the roof.

    Smart phones are red hot. Everyone and their dog should be making these things using Chinese foundries. The fact that you need to be a multi-billion dollar company that can buy up patents and create your own arsenal (as Apple did) to touch the market means that patent law has effectively made this something only massive companies can do... not because of any great competitive advantage, but just due to government created legal blocks. Hell, even the companies currently in the game right now couldn't be in if they were not all cross licensing this crap, effectively making sure that no nasty upstarts can jump in offer up competition.

    I'm happy Apple didn't lose, but the problem remains. Anyone without a few billion to their name an arsenal of patents is prevented from even putting a toe in the market. What a horrible waste.

  7. Nokia by lennier1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since Nokia has been turned into a puppet company for Microsoft does anybody really give a shit?

    1. Re:Nokia by lennier1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering how many people Nokia has already managed to alienate with this move (employees, business partners & customers) it's probably their only chance to survive. And for Microsoft it's cheaper than to buy smaller companies and use those to build a distribution arm for their phone products.

    2. Re:Nokia by Znork · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Still, with the amount of prestige that the board and executive have invested in this decision, I suspect they'd rather let the company burn than back out of the partnership. It's an interesting demonstration of just how badly a company can be run; backed in to a corner, chose the absolutely worst option conceivable and make sure there are no alternative strategies.

      Unless some stockholders manage to get the board fired, I expect Nokia will collapse and get taken private.

  8. Who cares. by frup · · Score: 3

    Now that Nokia has given up on QT, Symbian and Linux and adopted Windows Mobile, fuck them to hell. May they die and may they destroy apple along the way. FOSS is the only way.