Google Pulls PSX4Droid For Sony's Xperia Play

tlhIngan writes "Google has apparently pulled an Apple and pulled PSX4Droid (a PlayStation emulator) from the Marketplace, citing 'policy violations' for it reason. It's believed that Sony's Xperia Play (aka Playstation Phone) release was behind the move. Strangely, FPSE is still on the Marketplace."

Comments

!apple

[svirre]

I have no problems with Google policing the android market, in fact it might be good if they did more of that to prevent rouge apps from appearing there. The key difference between android and iOS is that you can get your apps from other sources than android market so the devs of PSX4Droid can just host the app at some other server and they are in business again.

Re:!apple

[Anonymous Coward]

As an android fanboy, I am dissapoint. Sideloading of apps is no excuse for Google to act like this.

Re:!apple

[ZiakII]

Yep, I am sure it will go on the amazon market. Although personally I never understood using these emulators on phones. They are god awful with the lack of any real buttons on the phone. Also the emulation is usually terrible, for any consoles SNES+.

Re:!apple

[IB4Student]

As someone who enjoyed playing emulated games on his 1st gen ipod nano's touchwheel (16 bit color 176x132 1.5" LCD, 32 KHz ARM), I have to disagree. My 3.7" 1.2 Ghz Droid Incredible plays games wonderfully.

Re:!apple

[aztracker1]

Depends on which android based phone you get.. some may be more locked down than others... and with the Nexus S only on T-Mobile for US and looks like AT&T is buying T-Mobile, I'm jumping ship to verizon (better than AT&T) in a couple months when my contract is up... need to find a power user friendly android phone for the big V (Motorola phones need not apply)

Re:!apple

[Daengbo]

I'm willing to bet it's a trademark issue, which is why the other emulator stays untouched. I'm happy Google responds to takedown notices.

Re:!apple

[Anonymous Coward]

They are god awful with the lack of any real buttons on the phone.

I agree that playing "traditional" games on a touch screen with virtual buttons is a joke. However, it's possible to sync up a Wii remote(/classic controller) with most Android phones, and for devices with physical keyboards, you have solutions like the Game Gripper.

Re:!apple

[PopeRatzo]

in fact it might be good if they did more of that to prevent rouge apps from appearing there.

I think Apple users might be more interested in the rouge apps.

It does bring out the cheekbones after all, and when used properly with a carefully-blended shadow it makes the eyes just pop!

Re:!apple

[Puff_Of_Hot_Air]

Ahh I see; moderator access has become synonymous with "petty tyranny". Tell me, have you ever considered employment as a government bureaucrat? Mod me down big man! I laugh in the face of your rebuke! May your friends continue to despise you, and a meaningful life ever elude you. May your early hair loss and burgeoning waist line increasingly repulse potential mates. Finally, may you live a long life alone with your pettiness, so that even beggars in the street may look on you with pity! So I curse you! Despised amongst men.

Re:!apple

[Nursie]

Turns out it's GPL violation, the guy based it off PCSX and wouldn't release the source.

Re:!apple

[Vintermann]

Thing is, with Android it's extremely easy to get a peripheral up and running. There's an app that hooks your wiimote right into the keyboard subsystem, and it Just Works (at least with those emulators sophisticated enough to rely on android's input system rather than rolling their own - sadly, the best Amiga and C64 emulators don't. Wish yongzh would take a look at those).

Re:!apple

[ScrewMaster]

in fact it might be good if they did more of that to prevent rouge apps

Yes, and in fact they might want to get rid of those mascara apps while their at it.

Re:!apple

[stalky14]

Nexus-S is coming out on Sprint as well. In fact Google seems to be turning to Sprint in light of the T-Mobile acquisition.

Re:!apple

[Haeleth]

They are god awful with the lack of any real buttons on the phone.

Maybe you should choose your phone more carefully then. Mine has plenty of real buttons, including a fairly usable D-pad.

Re:!apple

[Anonymous Coward]

So there's this Xperia PLAY, mentioned in the article, that has a slide out excellent gamepad. NES, SNES, PS1, N64 - you name it. It really works.

Sony's war on piracy

[Superken7]

I really think this is Sony pointing out android market ToS violations in order to get this pulled from Market ASAP. Smells like Sony's war on piracy. psx4droid has been in the android market for about a year without complaints from google...

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[gblackwo]

A lot of emulators avoid doing anything illegal, or ToS violations by having the user provide their own bios image. Is this not the case?

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[franciscohs]

Probably, but does it matter? (to them)

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Guns don't do anything by themselves either, the user has to provide the bullets and pull the trigger. Doesn't mean you shouldn't still control them.

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony's war on piracy? Or Sony's war on the customer?

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[yeshuawatso]

Maybe not piracy since without downloading the giant ISO files to play PS1 games, the emulator is just a nice file explorer shell for OI File Manger. Trademark infringement is more likely.

See here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4003:a7trs0.2.13

Sony has a registered trademark for PSX that pretty much includes anything dealing with electronics.

Interestingly though, Nintendo owns the patent for emulation of games on mobile devices: Patent #6,672,963

Based on Nintendo's patent, it will be 2024 before we can emulate on mobile devices freely, so ALL emulators could be removed from the market for patent infringement. But then again, there is no criminal charges for violating a patent, just civil penalties if the patent holder decides to file suit. I believe most of the emulator developers don't reside in the US, so I can see why their out of Nintendo's reach.

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

I used an emulator earlier on a mobile device (zaurus), so I don't think the patent would stand against a prior art challenge.

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[sixsixtysix]

go further: is there a clear definition of a "mobile device"? mobile meaning not stationary, so anything that can be used while moving it around (i.e. battery powered) and device can also be pretty generalized. i'd call a laptop a mobile [computing] device, and i've used an emulator on them before 2000, when nintendo's patent was filed.

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[ScrewMaster]

Interestingly though, Nintendo owns the patent for emulation of games on mobile devices: Patent #6,672,963 [uspto.gov]

Which is, in itself, insane. Being able to patent an entire category of technological development (thereby effectively suppressing development of that technology for decades) is the primary failure of the U.S. patent system. Let Nintendo develop, demonstrate and patent their own emulator. Then sue people that infringe upon that particular implementation. The patent system does not serve its Constitutionally-mandated function when patent holders can hold a gun to the heads of anyone trying to develop products along similar lines. That's not what the system was supposed to accomplish.

Not that software patents should ever have been permitted in the first place. This is just adding insult to injury.

Re:Sony's war on piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

That patent is pretty sad. Maybe I'm wrong about the timeline, but I thought that people were emulating (and doing piracy) on Nintendo's own mobile devices long before Nintendo did.

DMCA BIOS violation?

[IB4Student]

I know that most nintendo emulators and such are able to work without using the system's actual BIOS, but doesn't PS emulation require shipping with Sony's copyright-laden BIOS? I know that it's pretty easy to rip the BIOS from your own PS, but I doubt that this app supports doing this, and probably just ships with the BIOS.

Re:DMCA BIOS violation?

[atari2600a]

It does not.

Re:DMCA BIOS violation?

[metalmaster]

I played around with ePSXe for a bit and I hadda go search for a bios that matched the region/machine of the games i'd play. Ofcourse, the discussion board where i found the emulator info pointed me to a directory of relevant materials. I'd assume that a trivial matter like finding and copying the bios to the proper location isnt going to be reason enough for this dev to argue with Google or Sony for that matter.

A recent development in a similar Sony domain led to the dev of a popular PS3 file manager to remove the BD emulation from the application. I cant imagine its going to be enough of an argument to stave off Sony's rabid dogs.

Re:DMCA BIOS violation?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need a BIOS from the same region as your games to be able to play your games...

It is illegal however to just grab a BIOS from somewhere on the internet and get going. This is why you are encouraged to dump your own from your console in the first place.

the waning days of ownership

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but think these are the waning days of computer ownership. I know a lot of head-in-the-sand types will deny it, but outside of some niche uses, phones will become computer replacements. 95% of what people do with PCs can be done either on a phone, or a phone + a wireless display/keyboard. People will deny it just like they denied that these upstart PCs would kill their beloved Sun workstations, and so forth, but the simple fact is that technical users are almost the polar opposite of the mass market. I don't mean this will happen in 5 years. But in 15 or 20, PCs and laptops will be niche devices.

As this happens more and more, the era of owning your own computing devices is drawing to a close. It was a nice thing while it lasted, but it's increasingly less and less true all the time. And nobody seems to really mind, which is why it will/can happen.

This bothers old people like me, but it will becoming the newly accepted culture over time - the "new normal".

Re:the waning days of ownership

[nurb432]

The people that do mind, is the 'niche market' so they have no say-so in the matter. The general mass market doesn't care, which is who drives he boat, as you pointed out.

Re:the waning days of ownership

[suso]

>

This bothers old people like me, but it will becoming the newly accepted culture over time - the "new normal".

What is wrong with us these days? We control our destiny and this "new normal" that you talk about as the future is being determined by people just like us. If you get off your ass and try to do something about it you can drive the boat in the other direction. If you want any of what we worked towards in the past 20 years to matter, then its time to get up and get people going in a different direction, or at least in a direction that is open.

If this whole app store bullshit doesn't end, we're going to end up in a world that nobody with a brain will enjoy living in. An Internet controlled by dictators from governments called corporations. You think that blonde girl throwing the hammer represented Apple? Wrong. Steve Jobs was the wrinkly old man on the screen and the blonde girl is us. Its time to get up and make a difference.

Detractors say what you will, but this is exactly the situation that Richard Stallman was talking about with his essay about not being able to lend a computer to a friend in 2096 because he didn't really own it. 2096, yeah right that's a typo. Stallman is living here and now. We have no ownership man. No ownership. (to paraphrase from Cereal Killer)

So how do we attack this problem you ask? Simple, go out and make your own companies, software, or products of your own whose goal is to make the world in your own vision? Think that open source can't get traction with non-geeks? Ask Mark Shuttlesworth about that. Think it won't get big and have influence? Ask Larry Page and Sergey Brin about that. Think you won't get noticed? Ask Mark Zuckerberg about that. Think you can't start small with nothing and make a difference? Ask Linus Torvalds about that. Maybe not all those people are good role models for you, but they are all people who did what they loved and excelled at it and people loved them for it and followed their ways too. The people who say right place/right time are just the ones that didn't try.

Its funny that you mention Sun because it was the fact that Linus couldn't afford a Sun or other workstation and because Unix was closed up by big corporations (sound familiar) that led him to invent Linux, which is the reason we're all here now. So you can make a difference, and there are just enough people disgruntled about the existance of app stores, smart phones to make it a movement. In fact, let's just call it the open movement. Or the open source movement. Oh wait, there is already one of those? Ok, how about Open Source 2: Electric Boogaloo.

I think you get the idea. I'll shut up now.

Re:the waning days of ownership

[Hadlock]

People have been writing articles about how Japan migrated to the phone from the computer in 2005. Wether or not the rest of the world decides to do something similar is up to local social norms, customs, and wealth. The iPad and similar tablets are definitely a step in that direction though.

Re:the waning days of ownership

[bemymonkey]

I dunno, that Thinkpad X220 with 12+ hours of usable (!!! http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x220.aspx?page=3, http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6056&p=4) battery life (and that's only with the internal 9-cell battery - the strap-under slice battery adds another 10 hours or so) is looking much better to me than any tablet or smartphone I've seen so far. I have a feeling that as soon as laptops start to catch up in terms of battery life and portability, ARM based tablets and smartphones will become much less appealing. It'll come down to a choice between capacitive touchscreens vs. hardware keyboards & pointing devices, and I have a feeling that far fewer people would be willing to choose the latter if it didn't come with much, much lower battery life.

I too own a high-end Android smartphone to go along with my subnotebook, but if I could get all-day always-on battery life out of my subnotebook, I doubt I'd pull out my phone even half as often...

Re:the waning days of ownership

[Osgeld]

wow, I think a hippy just threw up over the idealism overload presented in that post

rouge apps

[nurb432]

And who gets to decide what is a 'rogue app' Me ? You? Some marketing guy or beancouter?

Don't forget too that not all allow 3rd party application stores so depending on your carrier/phone combination that may not be an option for you.

Re:rouge apps

[Lemmy Caution]

He said "rouge" app. So, apps that make you blush. As good a litmus as any.

Re:rouge apps

[Anonymous Coward]

On Google's marketplace Google decides, on Amazon's Amazon decides, on Verizon's Verizon decides (seeing a trend?). If Google gets too heavy-handed for your taste, find another store. Or the author can host it on his own site, or share it via a torrent. No rooting required.

I think the Google Marketplace will become much more strict as time goes on; this is the place where the unwashed masses shop and it will need to be neat and clean. Android fan sites will create their own marketplaces with the "hacker tools" and we've already got the Chinese pirate markets. The nice thing is I have a choice about where I shop with Android.

Re:rouge apps

[JesusFreke]

Name one Android phone that doesn't let you sideload applications.

Oh wait, you can't. Because phones *must* allow you to sideload applications. Otherwise, they won't pass the Android compatibility test suite, and can no longer be called an Android phone - and, more critically, can't bundle any of Google's applications like the market, gmail, maps, etc.

But yes, you could have a non-Android phone/device that is *based* on Android that doesn't allow sideloading of apps (like the B&N nook for example).

Re:rouge apps

[NatasRevol]

phones *must* allow you to sideload applications

Today.

Re:rouge apps

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

But yes, you could have a non-Android phone/device that is *based* on Android that doesn't allow sideloading of apps (like the B&N nook for example).

And you could even count them as "real" Androids for marketshare.

Re:rouge apps

[nurb432]

Moto Atrix. Need more examples?

And yes, you can currently 'fix' that on most everything if you are a little technical but, the apps ( and eventually the knowledge, if you look at what is happening to GeoHot ) to do that with will be considered rogue.

Re:rouge apps

[JesusFreke]

You can't use adb install to install applications on the atrix?

If it's like the phones others have mentioned, it's just a matter of the signed drivers not being readily available for that device. But to be honest, that's only an issue because of the windows stupidity of not letting you (easily) use unsigned drivers.

I hardly think you can consider "adb install" rogue knowledge

Re:rouge apps

[nurb432]

If its use bypasses ANY of the carriers intended restrictions, yes, i would consider it "rogue knowledge".

Now, that doesn't mean i wouldn't do it myself and that it *cant* be done if you step outside the box, but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.

Re:rouge apps

[JesusFreke]

The thing is that AT&T hasn't restricted adb install. If they had, then google would revoke their license to redistribute the google apps, and (hopefully) no-one would use the phone because it didn't have android market.

It's pretty simple - if you want Google's blessing, you can't restrict/lock down the adb protocol - which means you must allow installing applications via adb.

Now, the real problem would be if they did decide to remove all the Google apps and the Android branding, and went off and completely did their own thing. If that happened, I'm hoping the market would react and sales of the device would be poor. But then again, take a look at all the people who buy the locked down iPhones.... my optimism might be unwarranted in this case, unfortunately.

Re:rouge apps

[nurb432]

Most consumers don't care if they are locked, which is why carriers can get away with it :). They are quite happy with a toaster, and the idea of 'banning rogue information' would help keep things that way.

But with luck, those of us that do want to do more will still be able to for a long time.

Re:rouge apps

[ScrewMaster]

But then again, take a look at all the people who buy the locked down iPhones.... my optimism might be unwarranted in this case, unfortunately.

Probably not. Take Google Nav away from the millions of people (like me) who can't find their way out of the bathroom, and you'll find yourself facing torches and pitchforks.

wat

[atari2600a]

I thought the patents on the PS1 expired...& what of just about every other *4droid emulator?

Re:wat

[Lemmy Caution]

Hahaha. Patents expiring, things entering the public domain. Haha. That's a good one. Tell me, how's the weather in the 19th century?

Re:wat

[atari2600a]

Hey, why do you think you're seeing so many LEGAL famiclones out in the wild? You think they're re-programming Pac-Man for ARM retaining the same butchered color palette?

Re:wat

[Auroch]

+ N for n-telligent or n-sightful, or + X for x-traordinary.

seriously. need. mod. points. for. teh funzors.

Re:wat

[LordLucless]

Patents expire all the time, as they still have relatively sane durations. It's copyright that's been extended ad infinitum. You should get your terms straight before making snarky comments.

Re:wat

[Anonymous Coward]

The PS was released on dec 3 1994 so there could be a few years on some. Anyone have a list?

Re:wat

[russotto]

Patents expire all the time, as they still have relatively sane durations.

Too bad that whenever a computer changes form factor, you can get a new patent based on doing everything you did on the old form factor with the new form factor. So by the time the patent on game emulation "on a mobile device", we'll all be using some other sort of device. For the sake of argument say it's direct retinal projection; then Nintendo will just get a new patent on game emulation "on a device with a direct retinal projection display".

If you guys were half as nerdcore as you claim...

[Anonymous Coward]

..you'd know that PSX4Droid was pulled from the markert for GPL violations, which is why FPSE is still on the Market

Not so drastic as if it was Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

You still can download the .apk and install it, right?

Re:If you guys were half as nerdcore as you claim.

[matt_gaia]

Please.... we all know that's to rational of a reason to be viable on /. There has to be some evil, underhanded reason they did this.....

Not the end of the world

[SkankinMonkey]

While I don't like the decision to remove the app from the store, and hope google clarifies the reasoning (at least to the publisher) it's not the end of the world for most Android devices since they can install the app manually. Neither iOS or Windows 7 Mobile allow for this as far as I know. And yes, some android devices don't either (mostly at&t phones) but, for now, they are the exception to the rule.

Re:Not the end of the world

[oakgrove]

The hyperbole in the summary says Google is "pulling an Apple". I disagree. In order 4 that 2 b actually true, google would have had to disable side loading from android. That is the crucial difference. With apple you have no choice other than to jailbreak. With android I can install anything I want whether it is in the market or not as long as it exists. At&t notwithstanding. Pardon the number subsitutions as I dictated this with the voice recognition on my Droid.

Re:Not the end of the world

[Lehk228]

If you want freedom to load apps as you please look at blackberry OS. There is the official app market "app world" but the blackberry browser fully supports download and install from a website, which presumably would easilly allow purchasable apps outside the store with no extra software on the phone, just an http login to access a download link and maybe a tagged exe that will let them know if you pirate

Re:Not the end of the world

[fermion]

Jailbroken iPhons, which is no hard to do can load anything. Apple cannot remove anything from your phone without your knowledge, so even banned apps stay on. This is not true with google. Previous versions of iPhone do run the latest iOS. Something not true of Android(yes my 3GS has the latest iOS). The OS is no held from certain users because they did not buy from the right OEM. Apple is not going to sue users because they bough phones from OEM without proper liscense. Apple may have silly rules, but at least the rules are initially sated. One rule is Apple decides what goes in the App store. Google has no such rule, except when it does.

Re:Not the end of the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhhh...android allows you to install apps downloaded from websites, also. No need to take a step backwards to blackberry OS.

Re:Not the end of the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Google can't remove anything from my phone either...

I have no idea what you imagine you are talking about

Re:Not the end of the world

[Anonymous Coward]

1) The 3G (2nd gen) iPhone does not run 4.3, the latest revision of iOS. The EDGE iPhone (1st gen) does not run iOS 4 at all.
2) Apple CAN remotely wipe apps from your phone. Apple has never chosen to do so up until now, even with an app that was swiftly removed from the app store for a hidden wifi hotspot function.

Re:Not the end of the world

[Wovel]

Except that google actually has removed applications from people's phones before. Was even a story here on /. Feel free to look it up.

Re:Not the end of the world

[cbhacking]

Windows Phone 7 does not allow side-loading by default, but there are several ways to enable it anyhow. The most legit option is to get a marketplace developer account, which costs a bit of money but also gives the right to publish on the marketplace. At the other end, there's ChevronWP7, which is still available on phone hacker sites. In between there are things like using LG's built-in registry editor to tweak the "allow sideload" option.

There is, for example, a NES emulator which is not in the WP7 marketplace but can be downloaded online and sideloaded.

Re:Not the end of the world

[LordVader717]

Well, Apple's developer subscription plan also allows you to execute code, so technically the same goes for iPhone. The only thing I'm interested in is whether or not there is an officially sanctioned way for users to run programs on their device without having to pay a subscription. Putting your faith in Jailbreaks is awfully dangerous, as many an iPhone user has found out.

Re:Not the end of the world

[Vintermann]

It's just that if you have a jailbroken Iphone, or any platform the maker desperately tries to lock down, you never know if it's going to be bricked when you wake up tomorrow. Steve Jobs probably feels that you deserve it.

Re:Not the end of the world

[ScrewMaster]

Except that google actually has removed applications from people's phones before. Was even a story here on /. Feel free to look it up.

And I'd be willing to bet that Apple could too, if it wanted to. They just haven't showed those cards yet: but sooner or later they will.

Re:Not the end of the world

[brkello]

If you are talking about jailbreaking to get the iPhone you want...you can't really compare it to an unexploited Android and call it a fair comparison.

Refund for psx4droid

[log0n]

So how do I get my refund?

Re:Refund for psx4droid

[Anonymous Coward]

If you purchased and downloaded it, you should make a backup, but AFAIK it was pulled from the market, not the phones.

Re:Refund for psx4droid

[Anonymous Coward]

He means he's chocked to learn that the app he purchased turns out to violate policies, and he would like to uninstall it and get a refund.

Re:Refund for psx4droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Did the application on your phone stop working?

Re:Refund for psx4droid

[Duradin]

Did they pull a Google and delete it from your phone?

Re:Refund for psx4droid

[Anonymous Coward]

Recursion at it's finest!

Did Google "pull a Google"?

Re:Burn The Koran -- Piss on the ashes

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as you do the same to the Bible and Torah.

Find Games With ROM Buddy

[tepples]

and hope google clarifies the reasoning

The one objection sticking out like a sore thumb to me in the screenshot was "Find Games With ROM Buddy". Applications on Android Market MUST NOT include their own internal app stores. That would at least be consistent with taking down Kongregate and not taking down other emulators that lack a ROM acquisition button.

Re:Find Games With ROM Buddy

[fbartho]

Counter-point for you: Samsung's GameHub app.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Galaxy+S+II/news.asp?c=27573

Re:Find Games With ROM Buddy

[tepples]

An alternative app store preinstalled on the phone isn't necessarily subject to the Market's rules.

Re:Find Games With ROM Buddy

[fbartho]

Interesting point. I hadn't thought of that.

GameHub is the early prototype release of ngCore. https://developer.mobage.com/

Re:Find Games With ROM Buddy

[Vintermann]

Also, ROM buddy itself is pretty dodgy, and IMO scummy as well. They're not just giving people an easy way to get roms, they take money for it.

Gun control is hitting your target

[tepples]

Guns don't do anything by themselves either, the user has to provide the bullets and pull the trigger. Doesn't mean you shouldn't still control them.

Gun control is hitting your target. The real problem is that schools don't teach how to handle a firearm safely and effectively.

Re:Gun control is hitting your target

[aliquis]

The real problem is that schools don't teach how to handle a firearm safely and effectively.

Call the police and have them pick it up?

Re:Gun control is hitting your target

[Osgeld]

most children today, raised by stupidity and TV, cant even handle a nail file anymore

Re:Gun control is hitting your target

[ScrewMaster]

Gun control is hitting your target. The real problem is that schools don't teach how to handle a firearm safely and effectively.

I'd be happy if they could teach the little bastards how to handle a car safely.

Re:Gun control is hitting your target

[Duradin]

Nail files are the last thing you learn to use, first the rifle, then the pistol, then the knife, then finally the nail file.

If AT&T won't let you find another store

[tepples]

If Google gets too heavy-handed for your taste, find another store.

By extension, if AT&T won't let you install another store, wait out the rest of the 23 months in your contract and find another carrier. If Verizon and Sprint won't offer service where you live and work, find another place to live. Is this what you meant?

Re:If AT&T won't let you find another store

[Anonymous Coward]

Google can't be held responsible for the actions of carriers, or their level of coverage in your area.

Re:If AT&T won't let you find another store

[tepples]

Google can't be held responsible for the actions of carriers

But manufacturers that customize their phones to carriers can be held responsible for acquiescing to the customization demands of carriers. Google requires preserving ADB access as a condition of licensing Google Apps, but it doesn't require preserving "Unknown sources", nor does it appear to require easy access to the drivers that allow using ADB on Windows.

Are three OK?

[tepples]

Name one Android phone that doesn't let you sideload applications.

Motorola Backflip, HTC Aria, Samsung Captivate, and other Android-powered phones sold in AT&T stores all hide the "Unknown sources" checkbox from the end user.

Re:Are three OK?

[mewshi_nya]

Friend of mine is on AT&T with an Android phone. There is a way to sideload apps, but it more or less *requires* terminal use (either on the phone or through ADB).

Yes, it's stupid, but it probably allows them to get around that requirement.

Re:Are three OK?

[tepples]

There is a way to sideload apps, but it more or less *requires* terminal use (either on the phone or through ADB).

But doesn't one have to register as a developer to be able to download the Android Debug Bridge drivers from AT&T's web site?

Re:Are three OK?

[silly_sysiphus]

The one exception is the SE Xperia X10--it can be reflashed with a debranded firmware that allows sideloading, as well as ditching all ATT crapware...no hacks/terminal use required. Still, ATT doesn't exactly encourage this.

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

And adb install will still work, even if that's true.

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

No clue about downloading them from AT&T's website. But adb is an open protocol, with freely available drivers.

Re:Are three OK?

[dragonturtle69]

A quick Google or two shows a mix of solutions, Samsung being roughly to use the Samsung ADB driver then CLI, Motorola being more difficult upfront. Maybe someone using a phone on AT&T can comment more. I'm especially curious since Norton Security on Android updates outside of the Android market, if the hidden setting becomes available when Norton wants to update the app.

Just another reason to not use AT&T IMHO

Re:Are three OK?

[mewshi_nya]

Well, most Android phones (even, to an extent, newer Motorola models) can have new system images put on them.

Re:Are three OK?

[mewshi_nya]

No one would *ever* post a file needed to make full use of one's own property somewhere on them thar interwebs... ;)

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

Granted, the parent post I originally replied to was talking about third party markets - which I believe hiding the "Unknown sources" setting would prevent from working.

Re:Are three OK?

[tepples]

As I understand it:

1. The freely available drivers have to be modified to recognize different manufacturer IDs.
2. Modifying a driver invalidates its digital signature.
3. Installing a driver on Windows Vista 64-bit or Windows 7 64-bit that has not been signed with a certificate from a CA trusted by Microsoft requires rebooting a PC into a noticeably inconvenient "test mode".
4. Getting your own certificate from a CA trusted by Microsoft costs hundreds of USD per year.

What did I miss?

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

There are a couple of other solutions - still far from perfect, but workable. The best, of course, is to stop using windows, or at least stop using a version of windows that requires signed drivers. Failing that, you should still be able to install Linux onto a virtualbox VM and attach the phone to the VM.

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

Also - I wasn't aware that modifying the inf for a driver would invalidate the signature. But then again, I haven't really looked into how drivers are signed in much detail either.

Re:Are three OK?

[tepples]

The best, of course, is to stop using windows

And do what for other applications that you use and which fail in Wine?

or at least stop using a version of windows that requires signed drivers.

Do you mean downgrade to Windows XP or downgrade to 32-bit Windows 7?

Failing that, you should still be able to install Linux onto a virtualbox VM and attach the phone to the VM.

For now, at least until Oracle takes down the non-free Extension Pack allowing the VM to communicate with USB devices in the outside world.

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

And do what for other applications that you use and which fail in Wine?

I switched from Windows a few years ago. I've found replacements for all the applications I need. I rarely use wine - mostly just for games. Although I do still have a win xp partition for those stubborn games that don't want to work with wine.

Do you mean downgrade to Windows XP or downgrade to 32-bit Windows 7?

As far as Windows goes, I prefer XP. Granted, the 3/4gb memory limit is getting a bit constraining these days. You can, of course, take your pick :)

For now, at least until Oracle takes down the non-free Extension Pack allowing the VM to communicate with USB devices in the outside world.

I seem to recall that USB 1.1 support is included in the open source VirtualBox code. Doesn't VMWare also allow you to attach usb devices also?

Re:Are three OK?

[tepples]

I've found replacements for all the applications I need.

And I've found several cases where the Linux version is crippled, such as an NES emulator whose Windows version supports debugging the emulated ROM but whose Linux version does not.

I seem to recall that USB 1.1 support is included in the open source VirtualBox code.

Will ADB sideloading even work over USB 1.1 as opposed to 2.0? And how big can Android apps be?

Re:Are three OK?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right that this is a screwed up situation, but enabling test mode in Windows only takes 30 seconds, including the reboot time. Easily worth it to get 'adb install' working.

Re:Are three OK?

[JesusFreke]

And I've found several cases where the Linux version is crippled, such as an NES emulator whose Windows version supports debugging the emulated ROM but whose Linux version does not.

That's rather interesting. If anything, I would expect it to be the other way around.

Will ADB sideloading even work over USB 1.1 as opposed to 2.0? And how big can Android apps be?

I see no reason why it wouldn't. I don't know offhand if there is an artificially imposed size limit when using adb install, other than the available space on the device of course. Apps with lots of assets (like big games) will typically have a reasonably sized apk, and then download tons of data to your sdcard. I bought one game that required ~1GB of data to be downloaded to the sdcard - but I knew this was the case before purchasing.

Re:Are three OK?

[shutdown -p now]

I think his point is still valid, in a sense that, once you get to drivers and signatures, it's no longer the phone being locked, it's Windows being locked (as evidenced by the fact that it's a non-issue in Linux).

Re:Are three OK?

[koreanbabykilla]

lies. its very easy on a backflip at least....i have one. even back when there was no way to root it, ya go to motorola website, download usb drivers, install the sdk from developers.android.com,make sure enable usb debugging is checked, plug phone in, fire up a command prompt and type "adb install whatthefuckever.apk." we are talking MAYBE 10 min to set up first time and 30 seconds every time after that. anyone who is unable to do this is retarded. and at&t can suck my dick. the day i could root my phone i did and installed a rom that works on this bitch instead of that bullshit they pass off as a rom. got shit like swap on my sdcard, and ext4 partition thats symlinked to /data/apps and the same with the dalvic cache. i have close to 700 apps installed on my backflip. stock it could hold MAYBE 50. it dont take a rocket scientist to root a phone and flash a rom onto it. plus its linux, so free wifi tethering once its rooted yay! i even have debian installed on a ext partition on the drive. chroot into that bitch and its a computer. can even install tightvncserver and have X running on the fucker.

Re:Are three OK?

[ScrewMaster]

Well, most Android phones (even, to an extent, newer Motorola models) can have new system images put on them.

Well, all I know is that if I can't get Cyanogenmod 7 on a particular device, I'm probably not going to buy that device. I've learned one thing: don't depend upon the carriers for system updates. They'll happily leave you hanging for months before rolling out a new OTA, and then ... all you get is a hacked version of the stock firmware. Yeah, that's right ... hacked, with necessary features removed, and garbage software added. And they have the audacity to complain about third-party ROMs like Cyanogenmod, that are faster, more reliable and more feature-rich.

Frankly, I consider my HTC Vision to be what it truly is: a portable computer that happens to make phone calls, not the other way 'round. As such, I don't accept that a carrier or a vendor has any legitimate right to limit my choice of operating system to what little they care to offer, any more than I would U-Verse telling me I have to run Windows on my desktop machines. As it happens, I run Linux there too. This is one case where I definitely vote with my dollars: so long as HTC doesn't get too Motorola-like in their lockdowns, they'll keep getting my business.

I'm also currently on T-Mobile, and yeah I'm thoroughly torqued about the impending AT&T buyout. I was speaking to someone last week whose sister works for T-Mobile: she was told to get ready to become an AT&T employee. Her office is already switching over. I'd like to believe that there's a real possibility that our regulators will block the deal as the anticompetitive, anticonsumer horsehockey that it really is. That AT&T is already taking over T-Mobile facilities tells me that the fix is in, the buyout is going to happen regardless of what the consumer wants, and us happy T-Mobile users are pretty well screwed.

Bastards.

Re:Are three OK?

[HiThere]

And do what for other applications that you use and which fail in Wine?

Find alternate applications. I'll grant it may take a bit of searching. And transfer your data to an open format. The longer you wait, the more expensive it will end up being.

It took years to switch my wife, because she was using music score editing software, and now we've got the problem of converting the data. But the problem is no longer getting worse. (Or it wouldn't be, except that the computers with the other OSs are getting older, and thus nearer to failure. When they die, unconverted data will be lost. (Backups don't do any good if you can't read the data formats.)

It took me over a decade to realize just how bad closed proprietary formats holding my data was. Don't you be as stupid. It was an expensive learning process.

Re:Are three OK?

[tepples]

Find alternate applications.

I have found this easier said than done. Case in point: Here is a list of ten applications. What is the free alternative to each, or even the Linux-native non-free alternative?

Re:Are three OK?

[exomondo]

What did I miss?

The fact that you've deliberately made it sound more difficult and convoluted that it is by using the solution of fitting a square peg to a round hole. The logical solution would be to use linux or a linux VM, then that lops off 75% of your issues.

Re:Are three OK?

[HiThere]

I agree it's often easier said than done. So what? As long as you let a proprietary program hold your data hostage, the situation will continue to get worse and more expensive.

As I suggested it took me years to find a suitable application. But this didn't mean I stopped looking. If I'd found it earlier it would have saved a bunch of time, cost, and effort, but I didn't. (Actually, I think the score editors only got good enough last year, but I wasn't watching all the time.) But now the situation has stopped getting worse. Now I can save my data in open formats, and it can be read by multiple programs (even if only one formats it properly yet). But because I waited so long, I've got lots of data that needs to be converted from three different incompatible proprietary formats. (And, no, midi won't do. They can all export midi, but midi doesn't even keep track of the length of the shortest note, only of relative note length. And it loses all formatting information.)

Doesn't seem to be any foul play here

[Anonymous Coward]

There are indeed "policy violations", liability problems, likely to be IP complaints, and FPSe wasn't pulled.
Seems perfectly plausible that Sony or whoever was not happy about seeing "PSX4Droid" and filed a complaint, whereby Google decided to just remove it. FPSe doesn't have PSX in its name, and was likely missed by whoever filed the complaint.

It's a bit jumping the gun to claim that there was any malice or foul play involved.

Getting out of test mode too

[tepples]

Let's see: reboot into test mode, adb install, reboot into normal mode, reopen all your documents, web pages, etc. How long does the whole cycle take?

Re:Getting out of test mode too

[Anonymous Coward]

You can connect to the ADB daemon over the (WiFi) network interface sans USB drivers with `adb connect ip:port` if you reconfigure the phone ADB daemon (manually or with an app).

As for USB drivers... IIRC Microsoft changed the policy to allow installing unsigned/selfsigned drivers on 64-bit Windows 7. The problem is when starting the drivers (which fails). IIRC by enabling test-signing with bcdedit.exe you can permanently allow self-signed drivers to run.

Pokemon VBA ROMs

[Anonymous Coward]

Pokemon VBA ROMs

GPL

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it was pulled due to a large number of complaints over GPL violations.

How..

[Wovel]

How is this pulling an Apple. Google has not only pulled Applications before, they have pulled them off of users devices.

dont forget nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

the n64 emulator n64oid has recently gone missing as well: it cost 6$. might want to look into that for paying customers

Re:dont forget nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

That wasn't because of Nintendo. Yongzh was blatantly violating GPL with mupen64plus, and refused to provide source code despite repeatedly being asked to.

Deja Moo

[lennier1]

Just more of the same shit.

Anyone remember Bleem?

Re:Deja Moo

[Anonymous Coward]

Or Connectix Virtual Game Station, from around the same time...

FPSE Dev's Point of view

[ludwigf]

I believe that PSX4DROID hasn't respect all the rules [no GPL, no protected names or logo, no promotion of piracy] we respect, and the worst is the integrated link to ROM from their software... which is purely illegal.

source

Re:If you guys were half as nerdcore as you claim.

[thetoadwarrior]

No it has to be because Sony is evil and therefore validating my reason not to pay for software!

War on customers

[Anonymous Coward]

One more step in Sony's already lost war on customers...

...download USB drivers...

[tepples]

ya go to motorola website, download usb drivers

I'm aware of using ADB to sideload. But I was under the impression that one had to go to AT&T's web site and register as a developer in order to download USB drivers.

Re:...download USB drivers...

[koreanbabykilla]

no.....get them from whoever made the phone.

Re:If you guys were half as nerdcore as you claim.

[ScrewMaster]

No it has to be because Sony is evil and therefore validating my reason not to pay for software!

Sony became evil after they slept with the Devil ... that is, big media. They were my heros after the original Betamax decision was handed down decades ago. Now ... huh. I don't have any Sony hardware in my house anymore, and probably never will.

Re:If you guys were half as nerdcore as you claim.

[thetoadwarrior]

In my mind Sony is the same as ever. They've always been a mix of good and bad ideas. For instance I thought Mini-Discs were awesome but it had its own DRM issues. I don't think anyone can take away the fact the PS1 and especially the PS2 were totally awesome devices even if a lot of their hardware isn't that great. I think DRM is only more noticeable now because it's easier for them to implement and I think all companies have been getting away with trampling over the right to make copies of media you purchase because of piracy.

Missing sources

[Anonymous Coward]

ZOTTD is the cancer of GP2x/wiz/caanoo scene, he steals other people's work to make profit and hardly ever releases the sources, that's why google removed it from the market

alternate 2 psx4droid.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an alternative available to psx4droid called psx arcade. It's in the market, https://market.android.com/details?id=com.delicious.psx&feature=search_resulti

PlayStation Phone" First Look

[ejreed]

"PlayStation Phone" First Look Sony Ericsson has launched the first phone officially licensed to play PlayStation games. http://www.newslook.com/videos/302134-playstation-phone-first-look?autoplay=true