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Do Violent Games Hinder Development of Empathy?

donniebaseball23 writes "Although there's yet to be a study that conclusively proves a direct causal relationship between video game violence and real-life violence, psychologists are continuing to examine the effect violent media can have on children. A new study in the Journal of Children and Media notes that violent video game exposure can actually hinder a child's moral development. 'Certainly not every child who continues to play violent video games is going to go out and perpetrate a violent act, but the research suggests that children — particularly boys — who are frequently exposed to these violent games are absorbing a sanitized message of "no consequences for violence" from this play behavior,' said Professor Edward T. Vieira Jr."

39 of 343 comments (clear)

  1. "No consequences for violence" by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I believe that only a few of them would get that message. But even if they did, instead of having parents ban the games for the child, why don't they teach them otherwise and then let them play them?

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    1. Re:"No consequences for violence" by AndyAndyAndyAndy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They're concerned with the varying percentage of kids whose parents won't take the time / know better to talk to them and give context, etc. Ideally, sure, all the world's parents would have a bit of guidance and insight for each of the things their kids see/hear/experience, but we know that's not the case.

      I'm usually all-for telling parents to get their shit in order and to do a good job raising their kids, but going on about the ideal situation is to miss some valuable details about what effect these things have on development. We should accept the fact that many, many families lack parental guidance, and the results should be studied and understood.

      --
      It's always confirmation bias!
    2. Re:"No consequences for violence" by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're concerned with the varying percentage of kids whose parents won't take the time / know better to talk to them and give context, etc. Ideally, sure, all the world's parents would have a bit of guidance and insight for each of the things their kids see/hear/experience, but we know that's not the case.

      I see. However, the number of children who would get such a message from a fictional piece of entertainment are few in number, I think. That number can be thinned even further if they have responsible parents. What you're likely left with is a few children who do get this message, but they are so few in number that they are likely not worth worrying about (well, in the sense that games should be censored or banned for children, anyway).

      We should accept the fact that many, many families lack parental guidance, and the results should be studied and understood.

      Then those families shouldn't have children.

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      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:"No consequences for violence" by JonySuede · · Score: 2

      You have weird kind of values priority, being a functional member of a family is more important than viewing the fictional entertainment. A family cell is not a democratic environment, it is an autocratic one and it should stay that way.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    4. Re:"No consequences for violence" by KillAllNazis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can agree with this. Children are very impressionable of course and they are not very good at distinguishing fact from fiction. Parents probably sometimes forget this or view it as normal childish innocence, forgetting that a child can draw conclusions on other things based on their false knowledge and ideas seeded in formative years are of course persistent. Long running shows particularly become a fixture in the lives of children, and sometimes entire families. Disclaimer - This post based on limited personal experience.

    5. Re:"No consequences for violence" by jhoegl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps a similar study or "side by side" study should be performed on basketball, baseball, soccer, hockey, and football.

      Because, we all know hockey and football are the worst for anger issues, then soccer (if outside the US and Canada).

      I will bet it will be higher percentages for physical contact sports. A PR term for "violent sport"

    6. Re:"No consequences for violence" by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Why is that? Because I don't think that exaggerating the number of people who would change merely because of said fictional entertainment is very large, and therefore I don't think it's justified to ban the entertainment for kids? I just think that education is a far better solution than outright banning.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    7. Re:"No consequences for violence" by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, the number of children who would get such a message[...] are few in number I think

      Exactly. "You think"!

      And that right there is why its worthy of study. Lets actually find out how few in number it is.

      Then those families shouldn't have children.

      And the only way you get to enforce that is a policy of eugenics, forced abortions, and sterilization.

      I may well agree that many people shouldn't have children, but I have no desire whatsoever to live in a society that actually tries to decide who and then enforces it.

    8. Re:"No consequences for violence" by martyros · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But even if they did, instead of having parents ban the games for the child, why don't they teach them otherwise and then let them play them?

      Because we don't learn primarily through word of mouth instruction, but by example and imitation. Our subconscious learns things by inference, not by logical deduction. Inference comes from stories, example, and our behavior. When we act consistently with a belief (such as, "I'm not that interesting to people"), we tend to strengthen that belief.

      I've definitely noticed this, for example, in watching movies. In the last year or so a friend of mine has been organizing "movie nights" for our group of friends about twice a month; and since I don't really care much about what kind of movie to see (it's more about hanging out and having a shared experience), and he really likes action flicks, we see a lot of action flicks -- where violence is really the only solution to most problems. I've definitely noticed a change in my gut reaction when I encounter aggressive behavior in real life.

      Now, I think you're right, if a child is getting a moderate amount of violence in video games (a few hours a week), and is getting a lot of positive examples in other areas of life -- interaction with parents, friends, coaches, &c -- on the balance the video games won't really have that large of an effect.

      But if there aren't many positive influences, it can go into a negative feedback loop. For example, say his parents are mostly absent, so he's a little more aggressive when playing with friends or playing sports. So most kids don't really like being around him, and his coach tells him he can't be on the team. So he ends up with mostly more aggressive friends (whom he doesn't really like either, but at least they put up with him), and not many rewarding things to do in his free time other than play violent video games. And if his aggressive friends are more likely to get him into other kinds of things... you see where this might go.

      There's a lot in this example that went wrong of course -- parents who weren't really doing their job, the unlucky lack of an adult to step in and invest in him for the better, or the particular circumstances of the people at school. No one thing would cause all the badness; but it's not hard to see how violent video games could definitely contribute to the problem.

      --

      TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.

    9. Re:"No consequences for violence" by japhmi · · Score: 2

      Yes, it is. But, I just don't see how someone, even a child, could believe that something so obviously fictional is reality.

      Who said anything about the kids not understanding that it's not real in order to have an effect on them?

      --
      "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
    10. Re:"No consequences for violence" by JonySuede · · Score: 2

      For issues as small as this, why?

      according to anonymous he was : he was angry, frustrated, snappish. It is not what I consider small issue.

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    11. Re:"No consequences for violence" by rolfwind · · Score: 2

      I see. However, the number of children who would get such a message from a fictional piece of entertainment are few in number, I think. That number can be thinned even further if they have responsible parents. What you're likely left with is a few children who do get this message, but they are so few in number that they are likely not worth worrying about (well, in the sense that games should be censored or banned for children, anyway).

      Even adults can get dumb messages they believe from entertainment. How many people pick up a fad they first saw on TV, or pickup lines, or political beliefs whether from news or from fictional storylines? To think that children are only effected is silly.

      Yeah, the average person that sees Batman might think it's silly, but then someone can watch kick-ass and think "Maybe vigilantism really is okay" or something like that.

      I don't think adults are more logical thinkers than kids or more immune to it necessarily, they just have more experience and recognition/fear of some type of consequences.

    12. Re:"No consequences for violence" by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Those are real-world examples. Video games causing real violence is not something that is even supported by statistical evidence, as far as I'm aware.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    13. Re:"No consequences for violence" by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      "You trust your kid to discern fact from fiction!? CALL CHILD SERVICES!"
      Come on, man. He saying that you need to teach kids that fiction is fiction rather then keep them from fiction. It's not that crazy.
      That said, a nine year old watching Family Guy? ehhhhhhh.

    14. Re:"No consequences for violence" by dave562 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The imagination is a powerful thing. I've seen kids come out of the movie theater after watching Kung Fu Panda, and they were trying to kung fu fight each other. That was after what... 90 minutes of animated animals fighting each other. I remember when Power Rangers was popular. Kids all over the place were "playing" Power Rangers, punching and hitting and kicking at each other.

      Violence is an innate inclination in human beings. Part of becoming cultured and civilized is learning to find other solutions to inter-personal problems that do not involve the quick and dirty inclination to just simply remove the problem.

      On one level the issue is the cultural acceptance of certain behaviors. Look at a game like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas that portrays the gang life style. Sure, there are gangsters in any city of any reasonable size. Yet to glorify that behavior to the point where you are allowing children to live it sends the wrong messages. It delivers the message that such behavior is okay. Perhaps it is funny. Dangerous? Nope, it's a video game. You die and come back to life.

      During play time, children try on roles. Every second they spend "playing" a socially destructive role is a second wasted where their mind is not focused on making positive contributions to their environment.

    15. Re:"No consequences for violence" by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And how many children actually become violent in real life because of this? Based on statistical evidence that I've seen, not many at all. The most some studies have been able to do is correlate temporary aggressive thoughts with violent entertainment. But, as far as I know, that was it.

      Every second they spend "playing" a socially destructive role is a second wasted where their mind is not focused on making positive contributions to their environment.

      The same could be said about just about every hobby.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    16. Re:"No consequences for violence" by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2

      "Even adults can get dumb messages they believe from entertainment."

      Fox and Roger Ailes depend on that fact.

    17. Re:"No consequences for violence" by rolfwind · · Score: 2

      Those are perfect examples.

      And now that I think about it, that's what enforces the message - the perception that the messenger is some type of authority figure. In peer groups, the "older kids" will be followed, whether it's advice on girls or doing some type of mischief. Various regimes and religions around the world, past and present, actually spout an ideology that isn't too different from these game, but since they have "legitimacy", even the so-called smart adults follow them.

      So it seems, the old adage, don't let the TV or the video game become the parent. Spend time with the kids, and the rest, is all true.

    18. Re:"No consequences for violence" by rainmouse · · Score: 2

      Perhaps a similar study or "side by side" study should be performed on basketball, baseball, soccer, hockey, and football.

      We should start by examining worst offending influences. Its possible that violent video games can lead to violence, but reading religious texts can lead to genocide.

    19. Re:"No consequences for violence" by psithurism · · Score: 2

      Especially considering that no matter how violent the video game players are, they are on average much smaller and scrawnier than say football players.

      There is a reason one of those groups has a reputation for dominating the other with physical force.

    20. Re:"No consequences for violence" by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      You left off boxing where of course violence is the intent in training and performance. Even professional fake wrestling needs to be addressed where violence is promoted as desirable and via toys targeted at children http://www.wwetoys.com.au/.

      For the games of course it all depends how the violence is portrayed, as fun and desirable like professional wrestling or as harsh and undesirable, well like war use to be portrayed in the news until the US military cleansed it with 'in bed' journalists because it was having an impact on recruiting.

      Then you have Fox not-News reporting war deaths and casualties like sports scores, whopping it up when they show a video of bombs killing people. Hey, how about a government actually promoting torture, from beating up protesters using extreme pain to force submission all whilst it's cheered on by mass media, to strapping 'innocent until proven guilty people' to boards and forcing water into their lungs to get false confessions.

      I have always considered the news as the worst propagator of violence. Unfair to blame the messenger, well it all depends upon how the message is presented (with a complete lack of empathy for those suffering) and how many lies are wrapped up in it, specifically Fox not-News, should children even be allowed to watch it at all.

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      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    21. Re:"No consequences for violence" by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 2

      I think the difference here is consequences

      In a video game, you blow someone's head and you just see some red stains before the body 'vanishes'. In a sport, you injury somebody and you see him in pain, people around him wondering about him, and that guy being forced to leave to game or having trouble with some movements. Most likely, if the injury is serious you'll see him again in the neighbourhood in the next days still with sequels. If you are injured, you even get to feel how that feels.

      So, even accepting that sports are more violent that some videogames, in one hand you have "violent, but it is fun to be that way" or "more violent, but if you are not careful it won't be fun".

      --
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  2. another useless comment by demonbug · · Score: 3, Funny

    Looks like Professor Edward T. Vieira, Jr. is in need of an ass-kicking.

    Right after I finish clubbing this baby seal to death in Grand Theft Orca.

  3. Or Maybe, by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 2

    Maybe it's boys (and girls for that matter) that spend all their time playing video games (violent or not) and no time socializing. The lack of social interaction would hinder the development of empathy. How are you supposed to empathize, with "that which has no life?" (Oblig. southpark quote)

  4. Public School by internerdj · · Score: 2

    I wonder what they would find if they ran a similar study of a semi-controlled environment filled with their peers with regular violence that was inconsistently punished rather than video games.

  5. A comment on Fark sums this up perfectly by heypete · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fark user FloydA: I think if boys play this game, they will grow up to abuse women, in exactly the same way that I played Asteroids when I was young, and I grew up to be a triangle.

    (said in regards to the "Capture the Babe" multiplayer level category in Duke Nukem Forever)

    1. Re:A comment on Fark sums this up perfectly by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a valid point, you don't see people getting up in arms when it's a female protagonist beating or generally abusing male antagonists. I gave up watching most prime time TV because it was typical for the wives to behave like abusive bitches and for the husbands to more or less cower.

      One has to wonder whether it's not as big a problem as is advertised or whether men just have that little value in modern society.

  6. Only games tho. by dadelbunts · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes but only violent videogames. Other forms of media that depict violence such as movies, magazines, books, comics, and songs no. Actual violence no. Videogames yes. THEY ARE THE WORK OF ALAN TURING'S HOMOSEXUAL DEVIL MACHINE.

  7. Re:Violent or anonymous by H0p313ss · · Score: 2

    That would be The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory in a nutshell.

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  8. BS, when you die it hurts. by elucido · · Score: 2

    Even when playing a violent game as a child, I hated to lose the game or die and have to start over.

    So when you die in a game it hurts. If they don't think it hurts enough then perhaps the punishment for death in the new games should be like it was in the old games. When you died in some of the old school games that was it, or you'd get 3 lives and after losing all 3 that was it, and you had to start from scratch to get back to where you were. So dying in a game meant something.

  9. Design consequences into the game by elucido · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Such as if you play a game and you play violently, maybe your enemy just attacks you harder, forcing you to be more tactical rather than just trying to rambo your way through the AI.

    Also dying in a game should be a bit more painful. You lose all your gear and you start at the first level, thats how it was when I played growing up. They didn't have a "save" feature.

    1. Re:Design consequences into the game by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2

      Also dying in a game should be a bit more painful. You lose all your gear and you start at the first level, thats how it was when I played growing up. They didn't have a "save" feature.

      Thank you so much! I've been waiting patiently for forty years to find out what "get off my lawn" would sound like coming from our generation, and you have surpassed my wildest expectations. Never did I imagine it would come in the form of something like, "Listen sonny, when I was your age, we didn't have save points. We had to pump in more quarters. Uphill. Both ways. In the snow."

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  10. A better study by vlm · · Score: 2

    "no consequences for violence"

    Not in any game I've ever played. You take a level 1 trainee mage up against a "boss" dragon, you get turned into ashes. Not fun at all.

    I think a better way to study the influence of violent video games would be to study attitudes in boys about sizing up the opposition, and estimating the oppositions abilities, having a plan for running for it, and sharing gossip with their buddies about the best way to beat the other kid.

    I'm thinking there is no influence... Stories about my grandfather getting into fights as a little kid sound about like my sons stories, yet my grandfather was too young for video games by about half a century.

    Typical boy fight for the last couple centuries or longer: "Well he said some $#%^ so I decided to whack him one to teach him a lesson and one thing led to another and next thing you know we're in the principals office getting disciplined"

    Theoretical boy fight, when affected by video games: "Well I heard he drops phat loot and my buddy told me he's vulnerable to bludgeoning weapons and I need a defense against his poisonous spit, and I figured he's about a level 9 boy based on his STR and CON, and I'm about a level 10 boy based on my WIS and INT and CHA, so I figured I can take him pretty easily, and I got a cellphone-rune-of-recall if I need help, and a level 2 flask of bactine and a healers kit of bandaids, so I'm all good, I'm gonna camp his respawn point and get him when he steps off the school bus".

    Pretty obvious which is more realistic.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  11. Society has less empathy for children. by elucido · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a result children have less empathy. Empathy isn't rewarded in society. Look at this society and tell me why you'd expect any other result besides less empathy from children?

    Do the corporations have any empathy? So why expect it from children?

  12. Re:Humans do not exist in a void... by Skidborg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The thing is, when you actually go outside with your friends and play swordfight or war, you learn a degree of empathy that you don't get from video games since you won't have anyone left to play with if you insist on actually harming people. With video games, there's an entire internet full of strangers for you to remorselessly frag/spawncamp/teabag so there's no reason to learn how to actually socialize with them or even consider them to be human beings.

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  13. The sponsor is always right by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every sponsor of the study has its own angle on the issue, as such the result of the study is already predestine to prove the sponsor right. It's largely irrelevant what the result is as the result is pegged long before any data is collected or interpreted.

    Studies that disproved their sponsors' views have ways of disappearing into unfunded abyss.

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    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  14. Re:Humans do not exist in a void... by lgw · · Score: 2

    The thing is, when you actually go outside with your friends and play swordfight or war, you learn a degree of empathy that you don't get from video games since you won't have anyone left to play with if you insist on actually harming people.

    That's not how it worked when I was growing up (pre-computer-game). Instead, you learn that your gang needs to go bully someone weaker than you, so you can indulge in all the violence you care to, without consequence. Empathy? Some people enjoy hurting others - being there in person makes it better for the bullies.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  15. "It's only a game," they said. by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

    I type this from a federal penitentiary. When I was 12 my parents bought me a game for my Sega Genesis called "Mortal Kombat." "It's only a game," right? If only that "game" had done a better job of explaining the consequences of one's actions, I wouldn't be doing 30 consecutive life sentences for ripping the heads off two dozen of my classmates (spines attached) and then tearing the skin off my face and proceeding to breath searing flames on my teachers, burning them alive until they were just charred skeletons.

    Parents, talk to you kids about the REAL cost of a "Fatality!" Before it's too late.

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    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  16. Re:I'm starting to think maybe by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

    Then, as I was saying, our youth should be trained from the first in a stricter system, for if amusements become lawless, and the youths themselves become lawless, they can never grow up into well-conducted and virtuous citizens ... Thus educated, they will invent for themselves any lesser rules which their predecessors have altogether neglected.

    What do you mean?

    I mean such things as these:--when the young are to be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair; deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me?

    Yes.

    But there is, I think, small wisdom in legislating about such matters,-- I doubt if it is ever done; nor are any precise written enactments about them likely to be lasting.

    Socrates complaining about Kids These Days.

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