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The Dying DVR Box and Woz Wisdom
Lucas123 writes "At SNW in Santa Clara this past week, a diverse group of techies shared insights into their industries, such as the DVR market. TiVo's senior director of IT, Richard Rothschild, for instance, explained how those set-top boxes track everything you watch for advertising and marketing and then combine the information with supermarket membership card data to determine how effective ad campaigns are. Oh, and TiVo's planning to integrate its box with your flatscreen, so no more set-top device. And Steve Wozniak attacked the American education system, saying students should be graded on a single, long-term project rather than a short learning/testing cycle. 'In school, intelligence is a measurement,' he said. 'If you have the same answer as everyone else in math or science, you're intelligent.'"
but I can not take comments on intelligence seriously from a man who wasn't smart enough to say NO to Dancing with the Stars. Let the Flaming begin in 3...2...
Fast, cheap, correct. You get to pick two.
I like how he tries to compare teaching to civil engineering.
I think all of the engineers I know would be gravely insulted by that sort of comparison.
I would like to see the average "teacher" manage to get through ANY single course in the engineering curriculum.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
TiVo's senior director of IT, Richard Rothschild, for instance, explained how those set-top boxes track everything you watch for advertising and marketing and then combine the information with supermarket membership card data to determine how effective ad campaigns are.
I feel at least partially responsible for this. When I was working for a large cable TV head-end provider, I pitched this exact idea to upper management. Not as a way to track people, but as a way to prove to advertisers that cable advertising was effective.
I was told that the idea was unworkable and stupid, but six months later was put in charge of a project to roll out the 'brilliant idea from one of or top executives'.
So yeah, sorry everyone.
That's easy. Just use a contrasting 8-bar section as a transition between two verses. There, I did it.
'In school, intelligence is a measurement,' he said. 'If you have the same answer as everyone else in math or science, you're intelligent.'"
Well.. not really. Schools don't measure intelligence, they measure compliance and effort. If you're intelligent and willing, it's easier to comply with "memorize this crap" and "be able to solve math problems in this form" - but grades are not intended to measure intelligence, nor are they good at doing so. Nor would it make sense. The feedback mechanism grading is requires something you can change - and that's why grades usually target things that all students are capable of and that are easy to evaluate: memorization, putting time into a report, etc..
At issue, he said, are rules that tell each student exactly what they should be studying and when.
Everyone knows there's more effective ways to teach, but it's also clear why teachers have structure: how else are you going to address the needs of 30 different students - many of whom don't want to be there - and keep them all doing something vaguely productive?
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
'If you have the same answer as everyone else in math or science, you're intelligent.'"
Hmm, someone doesn't understand the importance of being able to reproduce the exact results for a given equation. I was required to show my work when I learned long division and that trend continued through trigonometry and calculus. The measurement of "intelligence" is being able to demonstrate that you understand the concepts behind the math and science you are doing...not just picking a random answer on a multiple choice question.
"There ought to be limits to freedom." -George W. Bush
He might not have a degree in education or post grad in this field, but he has run a school and tutoring facilities for years out of his garage. I can only imagine this is a large garage. He also has a few charity orgs that are tasked with eduction...having served on the board of a charity like this, you quickly learn whats going on...often to a larger extent than those that are invested in their education because they want to appear right regardless of proof of being wrong -- where as the charities want to change something.
I have advanced degrees in psych with focuses on experiential learning and measurement (of learning / IQ / whatever). I can safely say I agree with his assessment. A lot of graduate programs focus on measuring overall knowledge through a final paper or otherwise...the rest is just bench marks along the way to show you if you understand the material and really only beneficial to the student. I've heard him talk about this stuff in the past, and I'd say he is exactly right...
Considering how many parents basically fuck up their kids, never bother to take any interest in their school and then blame the teachers while subsequently trying to rob teachers of any authority in the classroom when their little monster acts like a shithead? Yes, parents in most cases DO know nothing.
They have articles here too?
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beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
I have 25 years of experience teaching computer science to students at all level of academia.
And most students who came to my courses came either because they found it interesting or because I had the reputation of being "difficult" but with the "midas touch" (basically if you had enough credit with me you where pretty sure to get an interesting job).
And I totally agree with Steve Wozniak.
First only long term projects can really check if the subject you are studying has any interest for you, too many people are looking for a "diploma" to get a job, not for an education.
BTW I got my "job positive results" by completelly ignoring "the industry wisdom" (or I would have teached GCOS MOD400 and/or PL1 and/or RPG and other "magic recepies to get some work", and gradually moved to .net & java)..
Second only long term project enables you to understand the difference between "half cooked solutions" and something you can actually inflige to somebody ele.
Third it shows the relevance of what you learn
Of course it has the unfortunate effect that you might find out that your teacher is fading into obsolescence, and too busy with external money making schemes to follow what you are doing, and I believe that is the main reason institutions prefers "tests"...
And I would have more trust on Woz about what makes a good "maker of things" than a "learning expert" who might or might not have made a serious study of "teaching and grading methods impact on long term creativity". not because of some bias against "humanities studies" but because it is almost impossible to organize large scale provable experiments in such a situation, most students request "fairness", so if you would organize to groups one being tested on long term projects and the other on "conventional grading" the result would be that in the first group you would get all the "geeks" and a good part of the would drop out running with their pet projects, and the other would get all the "mundane", and unless you force some to "switch" you would not be able to have a statistically relevant sample.
And if you ask them to swich all so the "mundane" would protest, and you would not be able to see if they would actually be able to morph in something useful...
I had no idea that he has a degree in education or did postgraduate studies in education or even home schooled his own children. Is this just as iffy as a Musical composer telling an engineer how to build a bridge?
I watched a movie about building a bridge and defeating Japanese troops. That makes me an expert on two things - I can now defeat the North Koreans, bridge the Tacoma Narrows and for an encore I'll fix Fukushima Daiichi with a wad of chewing gum.
Yeah, Woz is a cool guy, but when you quote people outside of their core competency don't expect them to come across as competent.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
In the article (yeah, I really read his part) Woz's says that projects can take up to years. He never expounded on how these long-term projects should take, or at what level he would like to implement them. From kindergarten to 5th project. 6th-9th? 10th-12th? K all the way through 12th? I like his premise, but then he goes off and says he developed the floppy disk for Apple in 2 weeks. Is that long term? Woz is a really smart guy and has done tons of good, but bring some clarity when you are declaring the need for changes. I personally agree with him that a, say, semester long (2 to 4 months) project should be able to teach a lot more than the memorize, test, & forget form of study. Longer than that and you are most likely getting into implementation phases.
My 2 bananas worth.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Not only that we have all sorts of laws in most states that say only people with teaching degrees can go anywhere near a class room, and all of them have to do continuing education in the subject of education. We appoint for the most part only education academics to develop curriculum ( well except we we legislate teaching ID ) and design course material etc, etc.
You know what though for the most part even when the Democrats rain down money on it, by most measures our educational system is getting worse. If Engineers continuously built less and less reliable bridges we'd probably stop taking their input too.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I'm not quite sure why you used quotes on teacher, but, seeing as how I have a Bachelor's in Electronic Engineering and I am a teacher, I'd say I meet your request.
Personally I find my career in teaching to be far more enjoyable and emotionally rewarding than designing circuits ever was. Are there flaws in the U.S. educational system? Of course there are. Rather than piss and moan about it, why don't you actually get off your ass and do something about it? Try volunteering in a public school near you. See what the actual demands are from the other side of the desk. See what differences there are between a good teacher who gets students interested enough in material to get them to improve, often against competing forces that teachers have no control over, and a teacher who is just punching a clock. There are plenty of the latter, but you'd be surprised at how many of the former there really are... Or at least were before they caved to the pressure placed upon them by administrators, parents, and various levels of local, state, and federal government.
Until you are willing to do something about it, quit acting like an ass and work on opening your mind a bit.
Mess not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
I had no idea that he has a degree in education or did postgraduate studies in education or even home schooled his own children. Is this just as iffy as a Musical composer telling an engineer how to build a bridge?
You are correct, you have no idea. After leaving Apple Wozniak gave back to the community, literally, as a fifth grade teacher at a local public school. He instructs teachers on the use of technology. He also setup and helped maintain, personally, computer labs at local schools. So he does know a little about child education.
I would potentially buy a new big screen if it had netflix or pandora integrated but would never buy one with a blu-ray, dvd or hard disk. How many of you like bundling failure-prone or potentially outdated devices into your most expensive component?
This is fucking stupid.
Are we discussing the education system or are we discussing set top boxes?
These are two completely different topics and should not be merged like this.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
To a large degree, we don't take teachers advice on teaching. I'm not even sure that most teachers would disagree with Woz. Most of the reason that classes are structured the way they are is because of regulations at the state and federal level. Teachers don't get as much leeway as you think they do.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
"If you have the same answer as everyone else in math or science, you're intelligent."
First of all, you're graded on getting the answer right (often including showing how you arrived at your answer), not on your agreement with your classmates. If 90% of your classmates got the same wrong answer, you aren't "intelligent" for getting the same answer as they did. Second, if everyone in your class gets the same answer, then something is very wrong - probably the course-work is way too easy.
And I'd very much like to see an engineer working under a system that's comparable to what teachers have to work with. Ultimately, it's the voters and the people who refuse to provide the necessary funding that are primarily to blame. You can't change course completely every couple years and expect to make progress. I have a hard time imagining a system of education so incompetently run that there isn't even one aspect that deserves to be preserved.
Trust me, education is a lot harder to provide than you think. You don't get to work with these nice clean materials that do mostly what you want them to. You're dealing with people, people who may or may not be interested, willing to work or even be able to see things the way that you were taught to see them.
This is so very true. If I had mod points and hadn't already posted, I'd be willing to give them even to an AC.
Mess not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
And Steve Wozniak attacked the American education system, saying students should be graded on a single, long-term project rather than a short learning/testing cycle.
Those of us who want to become scientists or mathematicians (like myself) do get "graded" on a single, long-term project (I have 200+ pages of evidence of that at home). The only problem with a single project for the WHOLE grade is that if by chance something goes wrong (bad reagent or protocol) or it didn't work like you expected (*sarcasm* because nothing ever goes wrong in science *sarcasm*) you would have to spend more time (months+++ ?) or the project might fail. If your a grad. student you make due and move on but, I think that would completely demotivate most high school students. Besides K-12 is the time/place to learn the basics, like the multiplication tables, the periodic table, language, writing, etc., with some small projects to augment book knowledge. I can guarantee that I would not have been successful in my graduate career if I didn't have the 16+ years of structured education and short testing cycles that Woz has an issue with. And if I was only graded on a single project as a young student I might have failed early on and did something else than science.
"And now you shall learn the secret of boot to the head"
"Rather than piss and moan about [the US educational system], why don't you actually get off your ass and do something about it?"
I do my best to vote for people who will get rid of the public schools' effective monopoly on K-12 education for all but the few; does that count?
I've never understood how replacing a very efficient broadcast mechanism with a unicast mechanism is "better". It's better for the user, but really, it's not scalable.
In the current TV system we have, adding an extra TV costs very little to the network (maybe another amplifier if the signal gets marginal). But if we add another TV for Hulu or Netflix or something, the bandwidth usage goes up linearly. Add 100 TVs, bandwidth goes up 100 times.
Multicast won't save you, unless people have a habit of starting the same program at the same time and never pausing (in which case it's just as inconvenient as the broadcast method). This is used by cable providers in SDV because of bandwidth issues.
In the end, it's far more efficient to broadcast the show somehow then have some sort of DVR to record it for later playback. Which, hey hey, is what Netflix and Hulu are, in essence. The DVR is "in the cloud" (really, at your ISP). But hey, any cable provider can do that too - they usually call it "on demand" or something.
In the end, all that's happening is the DVR is moving somewhere because supporting 300M TVs with streaming data 24/7 is quite inefficient on bandwidth capacity. So the networks broadcast it to someone who records it, that recording is passed down the line to a local (to you) entity - ISP, cable provider, etc., and given to you "on demand".
No, the big change really is that cable is too freaking expensive, the bundling rules suck, etc. All Hulu and Netflix have done is shown that people don't want to pay $200/month because they want 6 channels spread throughout 6 different packages. I can understand why it happens (contracts - and you know one of your favorite channels will die off with a la carte because it's a niche one).
Streaming services are great, but I won't bet the house on them yet. If something like the Superbowl was availavle exclusively via streaming, people would complain of stuttery video, connection failures, etc.
While I agree with your sentiment, I sincerely doubt it's funding that's the biggest issue.
You want to fix education? Here's the steps you'll need to take:
First, ditch the zillion middle-managers and "curriculum specialists" (the last school I taught had 300+ employees, and only 40-45 actual teachers), you'd see an immediate improvement in funding, and at the same time remove a lot of the bureaucracy that more often hinders a teacher than helps.
Next, dig through the mountain of idiotic and contradictory rules, and streamline them into a coherent, legible, and universally-applied code.
Third, allow teachers and the school administration (that survived the initial cut) to throw out students who refuse to behave, learn, etc. Basically, no more of the endless second chances... if a kid screws up x number of times at a certain severity, it's expulsion time. Make it clear to parents and faculty alike. If 'mommy's little angel' still wants to go to school, let him/her go to a private school at parental expense until (or if) he/she graduates.
Fourth, test teachers on a yearly basis for competency in the subject they're teaching. You'd be amazed at how many teachers do not know the subject, or know very little... you'd be further amazed at how vicious and vociferous teachers can get in those districts which do not test, whenever this subject is proposed.
Finally, insure that budget priority goes for the basics: Math, English (well, this is the US we're talking about, yes?), (hard) Sciences, History, etc. Also, cut out the indoctrination/make-work courses (those usually disguised under ambiguous names).
Do just these basic things, and you'd be surprised at how much extra money there happens to be afterwards.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
> I'm not quite sure why you used quotes on teacher
How can you be a teacher and be that ignorant?
Teaching (outside of a University setting) is something that involves it's own specialized major rather than any requirement to have a background in the subject that you teach. It is the norm to have no academic or industry experience in what you are teaching.
No. The ass is anyone that tries to conflate a teacher and an engineer.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
You're precisely right, of course. I just cancelled my cable because I was essentially paying Comcast $75 per month for ESPN and Fox Sports. Those were the only two channels I felt I couldn't live without, but when my latest bill came and I saw another rate in crease coming, I downgraded. I downgraded to their local-channels only package (still get HD because of my tv's tuner) which is $8, but basically free because they'd charge you $10 more for internet if you just had standalone internet (bastards). So my comment means, because of the exorbitant cost of cable, people are going to continue moving away from it to these emerging technologies. In the long run it may not be viable, but we might be able to choke the cable companies long enough to get them to come to their senses on cost and realize that their own internet service competes with their TV service.
Your first topic is absurd as there is zero interaction and no single recorded lesson is good for all students. A good teacher isn't just good at talking to the class, he/she is good at evaluating the needs of each class and working with all students. Playing a recording is idiotic and would do jack shit. Students need a TEACHER who gives a damn, not a video of one.
Your second idea has been implemented a hundred thousand times over minus only Wikipedia. Students get projects, reports, etc on a huge variety of topics, sometimes any topic they want. Making this the only method of education is hideous as it's pretty damned dry getting your entire education from a website. You need some human interaction, discussion, and so much more.
Nice attempt at deflection of my comment, but let me state my question more clearly...
Why did you feel the need to put quotes around the word teacher?
You are absolutely, 100% correct that teaching is something that involves it's own specialized skill set, as not everyone who is good at something is good at teaching something. The best case scenario is to have someone who is knowledgeable about a subject, very good at the same subject, and able to express that knowledge and ability in a way in which it can be understood by each willing student. Most K-12 teachers have one or two of those. Very few seem to have all three.
You do seem to be a bit ignorant on the requirements of becoming a K-12 teacher. The requirements in California (off the top of my head - please pardon any that I forgot to include) are as follows:
- A Bachelor's degree. This can be in Liberal Arts, Fine Arts, Social Studies, Social Science, Mathematics, any form of Engineering, Philosophy, Biology, Physics, heck... Just about any degree that is a Bachelor of _____________.
- Knowledge/Study of subjects related to the subjects one will be teaching. This can be accomplished through college-level coursework ("general education" for multiple subject credentials or a specific number of credits for a single subject credential), or through a very in-depth subject matter competency test called CSET.
- A year of post-graduate courses covering various teaching methodologies, legal requirements and responsibilities of teachers (e.g. teachers must report indications of child abuse or face fines and/or jail time), unpaid onsite observation hours, and a semester of unpaid student teaching. If you're really lucky, you can get an internship and get paid for the student teaching, but that very rarely happens.
- A Preliminary Teaching Credential (multiple subject generally covers K-6 and a single subject for 8-12) that expires after 3 or 4 years (I can't remember the duration right now and do not want to go look it up).
- In order for the Preliminary Teaching Credential to be advanced to a full Teaching Credential, one must successfully complete a 2-year Beginning Teacher Support and Assessment (BTSA) program which serves as a mentoring system for new teachers.
And that's just to become a full-time teacher. We then have to take 150 hours of professional development courses on our own time and paid for out of our own pockets over every five year period that we need to renew our teaching credentials. EVERY teacher that has entered the profession in the last decade or more has had to meet those requirements. Yes, there are older teachers that got in under previous systems, some of which have "lifetime" credentials that do not need to be renewed every five years, but they are fading from the workforce. So yes, it IS the norm to have at least an academic experience in what you are teaching. There is no Bachelor of Arts in Education program that I am aware of. Even if there was, there would still be the subject matter requirements. There are Masters Degrees in Education, but those have other uses than purely classroom teaching.
No. The ass is anyone that tries to conflate a teacher and an engineer.
I would like to see the average "teacher" manage to get through ANY single course in the engineering curriculum.
Isn't that exactly what you did there?
Again, go volunteer for a day or two and see the reality of today's education system from the other side of the desk.
Mess not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
I don't know. in 1999, I had to argue with a teacher that there was 27 amendment to the US constitution and not 25. This teacher was the government and civics teacher in the high school my neighbor went to and was the only question missed out of 100 on a test I helped him study for.
It took 3 days of arguing and a back issue of the New York times to get his score corrected.
It could be any teach in any course. They seem to have to be so diverse nowadays that I'm not sure any of them are truly able to specialize in one area.
You would be right if the set of schools and their quality was static. But demand always leads to increased supply. If the money can move then the people will chase it by creating more schools, expanding capacity at good ones, and improving quality at poor ones.
The transportation issue is actual a counter argument to your assertion as there is and will be a bias toward a convenient location. Location is just one of the many facts that would go into each families calculation of which school is better for them.
Mobility of the money, teachers, and students will lead to a rising tide that will improve education for all. Especially those you fear would be left behind.
And I'd very much like to see an engineer working under a system that's comparable to what teachers have to work with.
Manager: Mr. Smith, the bridge you designed just fell in the bay with 420 commuters on it. 355 are dead. Everyone is suing.
Engineer under Teacher System: Piss off. I have tenure. I'm going to the movies now.
-- $G
Things were getting worse faster prior to No Child Left Behind. I'm not sure it stopped the decay but at least we now have to act like something is wrong when a bunch of kids perform under grade level on a standardized test. That's a quantum leap from giving everyone raises and building a new football stadium at academically failing schools.
-- $G