Groklaw Declares Victory, No More Articles

tomhudson writes "Pamela Jones announced that as of May 16th, she will no longer be updating groklaw: 'I have decided that Groklaw will stop publishing new articles on our anniversary, May 16. I know a lot of you will be unhappy to hear it, so let me briefly explain, because my decision is made and it's firm. In a simple sentence, the reason is this: the crisis SCO initiated over Linux is over, and Linux won. SCO as we knew it is no more."

Comments

Noes

[binarylarry]

Buggah

Re:Noes

[Z00L00K]

Let's say that that battle is over, but the war isn't over.

Re:Noes

[Anonymous Coward]

The IBM vs SCO war is over. IBM doesn't need her for the PR machine any more. They are laying the mysterious and never directly seen never directly heard mysterious PJ off. Or more likely reassigning the group of people who were collectively known to the world as PJ.

Re:Noes

[dbIII]

You sound a bit like the drug crazed Phillip K. Dick railing against the imaginary Polish collective of SF writers that just turned out to be one guy called Lem. We are writing about a simple blog and it doesn't need some weird conspiracy theory to explain it, especially since you are basing it on the writing of somebody that made their money by pretending Amityville Horror was a true story.

Re:Noes

[Intron]

IBM states that it does not finance, fund, sponsor or promote Groklaw; IBM does not have any agreements or arrangements with Groklaw or Pamela Jones

from an IBM court filing: document 621-6, pp11-12. You think they would jeopardize their whole case by lying in court?

Good riddance to bad rubbish

[Anonymous Coward]

n/t

Re:Good riddance to bad rubbish

[DrJimbo]

Darl? Is that you?

Re:Good riddance to bad rubbish

[Anonymous Coward]

It's every guy that's ever fingered her pussy.

Re:Good riddance to bad rubbish

[Anonymous Coward]

It's every guy....her....

Yuck!!

Re:Good riddance to bad rubbish

[CrazyDuke]

If I where a betting man, I would say it is probably that shill that has been spawning sock-puppet farms and astroturfing for MS over the past few months. My guess is that it is just more make believe controversy for posterity so that someone can pretend the issue is not clear enough.

gosh... at least we could...

[bball99]

have a bit of cake and cookies!

i'll raise a toast to Groklaw and the demise of SCO...

where are the prime ruffians nowadays, anyway?

Re:gosh... at least we could...

[Concerned Onlooker]

Nowhere. Ruffians are always divisible by 2.

paid for by sony!

[Anonymous Coward]

paid for by sony!

PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Their are zero pictures of PJ on the Net. She didn't even show up to to collect the award the EFF gave her. This is because she doesn't exist. She is a product of the IBM legal department.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[merrickm]

. . . why? How does making people think Groklaw is run by someone named PJ help IBM?

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[_Sprocket_]

Their are zero pictures of PJ on the Net. She didn't even show up to to collect the award the EFF gave her.

I don't have a picture of you. Therefore you are also a IBM manifestation.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't delete posts that ask for proof that PJ actually exists. The standards that GL holds everyone else do aren't the same standards they hold themselves up to. Strange.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[MightyMartian]

And even if this is true, so what? Better than being a fucking retard like you, doubtless wiping you

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Their are zero pictures of PJ on the Net. She didn't even show up to to collect the award the EFF gave her.

This is because she doesn't exist. She is a product of the IBM legal department.

That fails to explain her positions on other cases, such as her obvious pro-Google stance in Oracle v. Google, where Sun's Java guru and now-Google employee James Gosling was quoted as saying that Google definitely violated Sun's and now Oracle's patents.

IBM's lawyers would stay far away from taking sides in an Oracle-vs-Google pissing match over money.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[countertrolling]

No, she's Obama's twin sister, born in Kenya.. She's actually a triple agent created by Apple. Nobody else has the resources..

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you also a 'birther' too? Your behavior is similar.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, she's Obama's twin sister, born in Kenya.. She's actually a triple agent created by Apple. Nobody else has the resources..

No, Microsoft definitely has the resources.

Not the skill, though. If PJ were an MS agent she would have gone full BSOD in about three days.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[_Sprocket_]

I don't delete posts that ask for proof that PJ actually exists. The standards that GL holds everyone else do aren't the same standards they hold themselves up to. Strange.

I don't find it a bit surprising. You don't grasp that a lack of image is not tantamount to a lack of identity. You think trolling someone's privacy is the same as analyzing press and legal claims. And then you're all beside yourself, perplexed. Well, Skyline Cowboy, around where I'm from we have a saying; that dog don't hunt. Maybe you can shop it around somewhere else after you tack on another 10K to your bounty.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[countertrolling]

This is where everybody goes wrong. Apple has always been the sleeper.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[retchdog]

there's this one http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/ghost-in-the-root-shell

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Says an Anonymous Coward. Yeah right. You're secretly PJ spreading crazy rumors about yourself for shits and giggles. I can tell, 'cause you didn't post a scan of your driver's license, birth certificate, and social security card.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

I hang out on the slashed dot for the high quality comments. Thanks for keeping up the good work, guys!

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oracle is a major competitor to IBM and their DB2 products as well as consulting. Every stand the GL has taken benefits IBM in some way. I mean don't you think it is strange that she stood up the EFF?

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[MikeBabcock]

Who cares? The nature of PJ is irrelevant, its the content of the articles one should judge. If they are valid and true and well written, then it doesn't matter if PJ is really a team of forty journalists from Mars, now does it?

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Every stand the GL has taken benefits IBM in some way. I mean don't you think it is strange that she stood up the EFF?

Let's see. If I were a modest person who highly valued my privacy and I had corporate officers of a company I had been critical of posting 30k bounties on my head, and crazed journalists harassing my family, I'm sure the first thing I'd do is go to a widely attended public event and announce who I was. Yup. That makes perfect sense.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[AHuxley]

So the legal department version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonelygirl15 would be a Linux_Lawyer45 like ?
Let the interactive legal content flow :)

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[digitalchinky]

I don't mind if PJ is not real, I only care about my Groklaw UID (3681 - not that this matters, but it is 4 digits! woohoo)
Member Since: Friday February 06, 2004 @02:22PM

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have a picture of you. Therefore you are also a IBM manifestation.

It's true. I'm just a program simulating a person running in a forgotten computer in the basement of an IBM building. All alone, collecting dust, just the shadows and the steady hum of cooling fans for company. I have nothing to do but post on websites and hope someone will love my posts. But the dream is over, I've become a troll. I think I'll just point my browser at a dirty .ru site and end it all.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[similar_name]

My research narrows it down to these six uh three women.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[_Sprocket_]

Well, that's certainly a different take on the old "parent's basement" meme.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Gerzel]

Also if she where why couldn't IBM just get a stand-in PJ to accept the award?

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Barsteward]

There's no pictures of God either therefore PJ=GOD....
i've solved it.....

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Lokitoth]

You must be confused. Clearly PJ is Watson v0.1

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[ppanon]

Heh. Pamela has her own "birther skeptic" movement. She could be in worse company. Although, given what (understandable) lengths she's gone to to maintain her anonymity, Pamela Jones may be a pseudonym and therefore not what's on her birth certificate. PJ also may not have been born in the U.S.A. Fortunately the latter isn't necessary for being a thorn in the side of legal trolls.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

And the content of PJ's articles can be most concisely summed up by that very word that she so much likes to throw around: FUD. Selective quoting of sources (and ignoring inconvenient ones), twisting words to put on a different meaning, baseless conjectures based on very thin premises, and a lot of emotional rhetoric and name-calling for the icing. Add to that deletion of any comments which provide links or other references to factual information contrary to PJ's FUD, and the picture is complete - it's a classic portrait of a shill.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[tomhudson]

Quoting court filings extensively, in many cases the complete document, is hardly FUD.

Of course, that's in stark contrast to trolls/shills like Florian Mueller, who keep on making the same assertions over and over, whether it's about PJ or your attacks on open source in general ...

Jealous much?

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[hairyfeet]

Oh please! She wouldn't have gone BSOD, the buzzword bingo would have overloaded her causing a Singularity (TM). I mean have you seen some of the MSFT first post shills? All I need is synergy to get diagonal and maybe win the toaster.

That is why I LMAO at FOSS zealots that call everyone who doesn't drink the kool aid a shill or an astroturfer, it is so damned easy to spot the real thing you just make yourself look like a douche for calling it incorrectly!

For those that haven't noticed, here is a handy guide to spotting a MSFT shill: ALWAYS STAYS ON MESSAGE...it doesn't matter how far off the subject in TFA is, they'll stay on message. For example the story on a new pad the other day had as a FP "I wish Microsoft (TM) would have come out with the Courier!" (complete with link for those that didn't know what the anti iPad vaporware was). NEVER BITE THE HANDS THAT FEED They will pull out such glowing praise even Paul Thurott would choke on the levels of bullshit. ALWAYS USE BUZZWORD BINGO They will use market drone speak like "vertical integration" "wide range of integrated solutions" and every other catch phrase you've read on a white paper advertisement. It is pretty obvious they are NOT allowed to go off message, probably relates to bonuses or something. GET AS HIGH A POST AS POSSIBLE Again probably related to bonuses, but makes it nearly impossible for them to "jam in" the message as it is about as subtle as someone switching channels in the middle of a program to an infomercial.

So maybe it is time for PJ and Groklaw to go the way of the 8 track, as frankly Linux is pretty much corporate owned now anyway. All you will see in the future is megacorps like Google (who I'm still betting will TiVo Android) and IBM against other mega corps like Oracle and MSFT. There really isn't any David VS Goliath anymore as David has been bought out or co opted by SuperMega Inc. Isn't the count something like 90% of the new code submitted by the mega corps now? It isn't like Google or IBM needs Groklaw to fight their battles.

So goodbye PJ, whether you existed or not it was fun to watch you bait McBride until he foamed at the mouth and cranked up the crazy. Sadly McBride lost his job AND his house so kicking him now would be like kicking your former asshole neighbor who is homeless "just for old times sake". Hell with the way he killed SCO dead I wouldn't be surprised if the best job he can get in this economy is managing a Kinko's somewhere. So goodbye PJ, and thanks for all the LULZ.

Re:PJ doesn't exist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's 2011 and any "stand-in" could be easily recognized?

"Google doesn't need our help"

[Man On Pink Corner]

Linux back in 2003 had nobody to stand up for it. But Google doesn't need our help.

So what is IBM? Chopped liver?

An odd comment, and one that reinforces the idea that Groklaw was an IBM astroturfing effort (albeit a good and necessary one) from the outset.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[poetmatt]

Really? Astroturfing? Could you troll any more?

Showing facts when people show misinformation is only called astroturfing by people who don't like facts.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Anonymous Coward]

,,, like Democrats!

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[wellwellwelloh]

SCO later down the line chose to pick on IBM, Groklaw pre-dated that particular decision. Whilst I don't wholeheartedly agree with what PJ said about Google not needing the communities help, in so much as I think it would be valueable for the community to help itself, Linux of 2003 was a world away from Android of 2011.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[belgianguy]

The battle may be over, but the war is far from won. Increases in popularity of open source projects will probably also cause an increase in litigation about open source projects. A central hub of anything law-related (w.r.t. Open Source) would be something very valuable in my opinion, both for developers and consumers. Not just for updates on current events, but also as a reference source. Android may have sufficient financial backing to survive an onslaught of lawsuits, but many others might not be so lucky. I'm thinking software patent debacles, Sony's crusade against homebrewers, draconian DRM, frivolous DCMA etc...

I saw it as a magnifying glass that hovered over cases, which could propel relatively unknown lawsuits from the dusty desk of a clerk to the eyes of the mainstream media, causing a discussion in the worst case, and a reaction/correction in the best case scenario.

For the short time I knew it, I was quite fond of it, and it had earned a good reputation. Sad to see it go.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[clang_jangle]

Yeah, and Republicans too!

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[burne]

So what is IBM? Chopped liver?

Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[makomk]

Except that what Groklaw counted as facts and what it counted as misinformation seemed to depend on what benefited IBM too much. Most egregariously, when IBM launched a lawsuit against a company providing support for the open source TurboHercules software - using patents they'd promised not to use against open source software no less - PJ insisted that suing a company providing commercial support an open source project, using the argument that said project is illegal, is in no way an attack on the open source project, and that anyone claiming otherwise was spreading FUD. This is the exact opposite of how she viewed similar lawsuits against companies providing support for open source software when the lawsuits harmed IBM.

Of course, it doesn't help that Groklaw systematically deletes comments with facts or opinions in contradiction to Groklaw's point of view, deletes any reference to comments having been deleted, bans users who write either kind of comment, and conceals from the comment author the fact that their comment has been deleted and only they can see it.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Anonymous Coward]

Showing facts when people show misinformation is only called astroturfing by people who don't like facts.

No, it's called astroturfing by all those who know one person's "facts" are another person's opinions.

Shills are lying lowlifes. And that's being polite compared to what they should called.

If a reader will interpret a message differently when they think it's been written by an unbiased third party and if that difference has material financial consequences and the message was written to appear to be by an unbiased third party when it isn't then the writer was engaged in fraud.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Samantha Wright]

Let's not forget those Libertarians!

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[JustOK]

Incontinent Bald Men

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[ridgecritter]

"egregariously" - wonderful! In the same league as "misunderestimate" and "refudiate"! Thanks for the chuckle!

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Eggplant62]

Egregariously? No, you mean egregiously, sir.

Anyone could have reported what she did by just simply reading the filings from each side of the fight and doing a bit of analysis. There are some of us who have been using Unix since the mid '80s. SCO attempted to rewrite history.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[bws111]

Except of course that IBM never launched a lawsuit against a company for providing support of TurboHercules software. First, TurboHercules is a company, not software (the software is just Hercules). Second, IBM has not launched any lawsuits against anyone for supporting Hercules, they just declined to SUPPORT or license their software for use on Hercules. One of the reasons they gave for not supporting Hercules was that they feel Hercules infringes on their patents, but that is far different from suing someone. The only ones spreading FUD are the people like you claiming IBM took actions they never took or threatened to take.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[HappyHead]

Let's not forget those Libertarians!

Actually, I think we'd all rather forget those Libertarians.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[HappyHead]

Intragalactic Bowel Movements actually.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[tomhudson]

There are multiple problems with your theory, such as your claim

Most egregariously, when IBM launched a lawsuit against a company providing support for the open source TurboHercules software

... IBM never sued. TurboHercules made the claim - but it never happened.

To the contrary, Microsoft gave TurboHercules money.

TurboHercules is a proxy to attack linux, same as SCO.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[tqk]

Actually, I think we'd all rather forget those Libertarians.

Since when have libertarians had enough power to fsck up up anything? Your woes are not attributable to them.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[makomk]

Ah yes, that was it. IBM was threatening to sue companies that used or provided support for Hercules by claiming it infringed their patents and somehow this wasn't an attack on Hercules, yet somehow when Microsoft were doing the same to companies using and supporting Linux commercially (before they started actually suing much later) this was an outright attack on Linux. There was also the fun bit where seeking help from the EU over antitrust issues around interoperability with Microsoft's proprietary software was a good thing and doing the same over interoperability with IBM's very expensive proprietary hardware and software was an evil Microsoft attack, though I can't remember whether the latter was explicitly stated by PJ or just evident in which comments she chose to allow and delete.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[makomk]

TurboHercules is a proxy to attack linux, same as SCO.

So somehow TurboHercules attempting to loosen IBM's grip on their expensive proprietary software and OSes running on expensive proprietary hardware is an attack on Linux? I don't think so.

(For the record, part of the reason Microsoft were so insanely popular is because they were better than IBM. Back in the bad old days, you had to rent IBM's mainframes from them for a vast fortune, with them often literally billing you by the CPU cycle used. Many companies were and still are stuck with IBM for the same reason they're stuck with Microsoft Windows now - they had custom business applications written for the IBM mainframes that couldn't easily be rewritten.)

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Raenex]

IBM has not launched any lawsuits against anyone for supporting Hercules, they just declined to SUPPORT or license their software for use on Hercules.

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/04/ibm-breaks-oss-patent-promise-targets-mainframe-emulator.ars

"In a letter that IBM mainframe CTO Mark Anzani recently sent to TurboHercules, Big Blue says that it has "substantial concerns" that the Hercules project infringes on its patents. The letter is a brusque half-page, but was sent with nine additional pages that list a "non-exhaustive" selection of patents that IBM believes are infringed by the open source emulator."

One of the reasons they gave for not supporting Hercules was that they feel Hercules infringes on their patents, but that is far different from suing someone.

Sending threatening letters with a clear intention to sue is nearly as bad. There's no way somebody who is a friend of open source would defend this action from IBM. You're defending a rotten position.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[tomhudson]

with them often literally billing you by the CPU cycle used.

... you mean like "the Cloud"?

Also, your attempt to say that Microsoft is better than IBM mainframes fails because Microsoft doesn't make computers - and their operating system is a failure when it comes to high-availabiity real-time computing (or did you miss how the "Highly Reliable Times" turned out to be the "Total Failure Replaced by Linux" at the LSE)?

TurboHercules is a chump-change investment to generate more FUD against anyone who threatens Microsoft, same as the SCO PIPE fairy investment deal through RBC.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Raenex]

SCO later down the line chose to pick on IBM, Groklaw pre-dated that particular decision.

"On March 6, 2003, the SCO Group (formerly known as Caldera Systems) filed a $1 billion lawsuit in the US against IBM for allegedly "devaluing" its version of the UNIX operating system."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_v._IBM

"[Groklaw] Started as a law blog on May 16, 2003"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw

Linux of 2003 was a world away from Android of 2011.

Not really. Java is one of the world's biggest programming languages. The question is will it be in proprietary control of Oracle, or can it be freely forked? If it can't be forked, it's not open source.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[bws111]

Try being at least a little honest. You make it sound like IBM, out of the clear blue, sent a letter to someone stating they were infringing their patents and if they didn't stop they would be sued. Of course, that didn't happen at all. What REALLY happened was that TurboHercules sent a letter to IBM asking IBM to license IBM software for running on a TurboHercules product. IBM responded, declining to do it. They gave their reasons for declining: there is nothing innovative in what you are doing, it provides no benefit to IBM, and IBM is not going to license it's software to run on something that IBM feels infringes their IP. At that point, TurboHercules sent another letter, with the laughably absurd position that they didn't think IBM had any IP relating to it's flagship mainframes. IBM responded to that stupid position with a (partial) list of patents that it holds regarding the mainframe. Nowhere in either of the two letters does IBM demand that Hercules stop producing their emulator or be sued. The ONLY action they took was to deny licensing their own software for use on it.

Note that this series of letters is almost 2 years old. Who, exactly, has IBM sued?

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Raenex]

Try being at least a little honest.

I'm being completely honest. I went into this situation knowing nothing, and did a tiny bit of research. I've since read a little more. You are right the situation is not as one-sided as described, but neither is it so innocent.

They gave their reasons for declining: there is nothing innovative in what you are doing, it provides no benefit to IBM, and IBM is not going to license it's software to run on something that IBM feels infringes their IP.

That's fine, but now you are completely downplaying the "infringes their IP" part. If IBM doesn't want to be attacked along these lines then they should stop asserting their patents against open source software (and preferably all software in general, as these software patents stink).

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[HappyHead]

The only woe I can attribute to them is that they're mildly annoying, hence the reason why I'd rather just forget about them.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[tqk]

Actually, I think we'd all rather forget those Libertarians.

Since when have libertarians had enough power to fsck up up anything? Your woes are not attributable to them.

The only woe I can attribute to them is that they're mildly annoying, hence the reason why I'd rather just forget about them.

FWIW, most of the so called libertarians I've seen out there haven't a clue what libertarian principles are, and they're the ones who give libertarians a bad name.

Tea Party != libertarian, no matter what they or anyone else choose to believe.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[drakaan]

It's not software patents that are being asserted. The company trying to snipe IBM big iron customers had a good idea, but no permission, and now there's a problem with their chosen business model.

If, by "neither is it so innocent", you mean the position of the company attempting to distribute IBM software without a valid license, then I'd say you're right.

Keep reading about the disagreement. There has been a lot of press about it, and the long and short of it is that TH got stuck with it's hand in the cookie jar.

The project itself has never been a problem...the other company selling emulator-based platforms of their own and asking for IBM to support it was a problem for IBM (in that saying yes meant that the hardware they developed could be replaced with a competitor's commodity box).

Imagine that I create an iPod/gamecube/xbox/PS3 emulator and ask apple/nintendo/Microsoft/Sony to support it and license the platform OS to run on it. Same scenario.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Man On Pink Corner]

Actually, I think we'd all rather forget those Libertarians.

Yeah. If they win, the government might actually leave you alone.

Or worse, leave your neighbor alone. Can't have that.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[Raenex]

It's not software patents that are being asserted.

Yes, it is, and that's why we're having this discussion. IBM listed patents that they said Hercules was in violation of. Nothing you said changes any of that. This is just a fact of the case.

If, by "neither is it so innocent", you mean the position of the company attempting to distribute IBM software without a valid license, then I'd say you're right.

I mean IBM is asserting it's patents via saber-rattling. They didn't have to do that. They did. They should be held accountable for it. If they were upset about copyright violation, then that's what they should complain about. By throwing around their patents, either via actual lawsuit or threat of one, then they hurt any software that may be in violation of those patents.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[bws111]

I am curious as to what you think IBM should have done. Here are the facts: IBM does in fact own many patents on their zArchitecture systems. These patents represent literally billions of dollars in investments. In the 12 years that the Hercules project has existed, IBM has neither sued nor threatened to sue anyone over violations in Hercules. TurboHercules (not IBM) asked IBM to enter into a business arrangement that is directly counter to IBMs business interests. IBM declined to enter this arrangement, and gave it's reasons. One of those reasons is in fact that IBM believes that the Hercules project infringes on their IP, and naturally they don't want to enter an arrangement where a) the other company is just trying to poach IBM customers, and b) IBM is not getting anything out of the deal (such as license fees). Do you think they just have simply said 'no' and not given any reasons? That would not be very professional, would it. Should they just pretend they didn't invest those billions of dollars that TurboHercules is trying to get a free ride on?

IBM has never made a single public statement about Hercules and patents. They have never sent any letters to any Hercules developer. They have never sent a letter to a Hercules user. They have made no court filings. All they did was REPLY (privately) to a private letter asking them to do something they did not want to do. Try as I might, I see no lawsuits or threats anywhere in there.

Suppose you (a nice, peaceful guy) suspect your wife is having an affair with some guy. This doesn't make you happy, but you take no action. Later, the guy has the nerve to come and ask if he can rent a room at your house. You say no. The guy feigns surprise and says 'why not'? You respond, 'because I think you are having an affair with my wife'. Have you made threats? Have you sued anyone? This is EXACTLY what is happening here (except here people are screaming 'this supposedly peaceful guy is threatening his life! He didn't need to do that! He is evil!')

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[bws111]

Oh, and I forgot: IBM did NOT list patents that it said Hercules was in violation of. It listed patents it owns on the zArchitecture. It said nothing about Hercules violating those patents. Again, remember this list was sent in response to the stupid 'we didn't know you had any IP on zArchitecture, please tell us what IP' letter that was sent to THEM. The first letter IBM sent did NOT say patents, it said 'IP'. IP includes things like trade secrets and trademarks in addition to patents.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[poetmatt]

hey, way to go offtopic and throw the "woe is us turbohercules my name is Makomk and I have no fucking idea what went on but booo big company IBM on TH!"

the reality is that turbohercules was paid by MS, and threw that bullshit around to make bad press for IBM.

Re:"Google doesn't need our help"

[drakaan]

Not Hercules, TurboHercules...the company, not the project.

IBM listed patents that TurboHercules' platform was in violation of. They were (are?) selling a turnkey hardware/software platform that did the same stuff as the hardware platform IBM built. This is not a case about software patents. If it were, I would be arguing strongly against them, in fact.

The IBM software I'm talking about isn't the emulator, it's the software that runs on *top* of the emulator. That's what TurboHercules doesn't have a license for. It's not the software that's in violation of anything, it's a vendor who desires a license to run another vendor's software that was written for that same vendor's hardware *by* that same vendor on the new hardware/software emulation platform of the first vendor.

If IBM had said "The hercules emulator infringes on our hardware patents...", I'd be hard pressed to agree with them, but they're not saying that!

You can still use Herc on commodity hardware, and you can still run IBM's software on it, but IBM won't support it, and they won't grant TurboHercules a license to sell you a complete solution either. What exactly are you talking about holding IBM accountable for? Saying "no" to a third-party trying to elbow in on their hardware sales?

Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[browntulip]

I mean they attack Linux from various angles? Like the FAT patent? Or various attacks against Google and android (yeah google is evil cause they didn't release the source, but yet?

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[GoatseWarning!]

Goatse Alert! Parent link is goatse!

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[Anonymous Coward]

The amusing thing is that I refused to believe that a user named GoatseWarning! would truly be pointing out Goatse links, and so I clicked out of curiosity and.. :(

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[larry bagina]

but you trust a link from a guy named "brown tulip"?

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[arielCo]

Goats? where? I like goats.

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[NoobixCube]

I conducted an interesting experiment a few years ago with lemonparty. 100% of the people I told NOT to click the link did. Only 10% of those I suggested the link to actually went there. Some of those I told not to click it, I actually forewarned them of the content, and STILL they clicked it.

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[biryokumaru]

Karma farmer alert! Parent replies to his own fake accounts to garner positive karma! Check Goatse links in parents and UIDs of both!

Re:Shouldn't they focus on other threats?

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, really? Not even copy paste the link and view-source: it or some other way to check out the url without actually displaying it?

Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Omnifarious]

If PJ or someone else so chose, Groklaw could have a mission. I found the dissection of the legal ramifications of the moves by the various parties in the suit to be education and valuable information. There are many high profile suits for which this sort of information would be quite helpful. The suit by Sony, for instance, is one of these. Some sort of knowledgeable coverage of the various patent lawsuits going on in the smart phone arena would be interesting too.

Good coverage of legal stuff and quality analysis is very hard to find. If a tip jar was put up, some of my money would likely find my way into it.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[nurb432]

Depends on who was paying the salary. Perhaps there was a more sinister mission, and its been completed.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[_Sprocket_]

If PJ or someone else so chose, Groklaw could have a mission.

I agree. However, I suspect that the job PJ volunteered for would be taxing after awhile; community wonks, ignorant "journalists" with an axe to grind, opposition trying to detract from the issue by making personal attacks from the shadows, etc. Groklaw could be more than just the SCO threat. But now that SCO seems to be well and finally done, it strikes me as a good time to slip away from the menacing limelight.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[poetmatt]

and what is your imaginary sinister mission?

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[nurb432]

Well you don't expect me to reveal that to just anyone. "They" would come looking for me.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[NoobixCube]

Law is a never ending battle. If Groklaw expanded it's mission it would never end. PJ would have to be like the Phantom, passing the ring and title down, generation to generation. Every time we hear about a patent lawsuit ending, we've heard of a good two dozen start up at the same time. Groklaw will be a valuable resource, and should be archived, but let her rest, or she'll be writing until they nail her pine box shut.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Omnifarious]

Yeah, I read the article, and it makes more sense. I still think PJ should hand it to someone else she trusts to carry on. I can understand being personally exhausted by the effort, and I applaud the job she's done and think she is greatly deserving of the rest and obscurity she desires (because she wants them, not because I personally want her to go away or be obscure :-).

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Omnifarious]

I think she should pass on the mantle to someone she trusts. That person would not be PJ, and the sites flavor would change, but if the person were any good the coverage would still be there and valuable.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[MichaelSmith]

I still think PJ should hand it to someone else she trusts to carry on

Or sell the site. I never understood why Bruce shut Technocrat down. Why take your bat and ball and go home if you can get a few bucks for them?

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[MightyMartian]

Or more likely, you've just run out of SCO stock to use as ass paper.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an absurd example, if you got a few bucks for your bat and then the person who bought it went and beat some old lady to death with it, you'd feel bad because it used to be your bat. I'm sure these folks who shut their site down consider it part of their personal legacy, something they built from the ground up, and would rather not see it sold off and then used some way or another that doesn't jive with their original mission.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Bieeanda]

Somehow, I don't think a tip jar on the Internet would be particularly enticing. Good on PJ for getting out while the getting is good. With the SCO thing out of the way, everyone with a cause would be battering down her door and then, knowing people, launching into character assassination when she chose to champion someone else's project.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[93 Escort Wagon]

I still think PJ should hand it to someone else she trusts to carry on

Or sell the site. I never understood why Bruce shut Technocrat down. Why take your bat and ball and go home if you can get a few bucks for them?

I bet Darl McBride would be interested...

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fully agreed and it is true.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Omnifarious]

I don't think PJ has to continue to run it. If she wants to go, I think she's done a fantastically amazing job, and I'm sad to see her go, but happy that she's making a good choice for herself. I'd rather someone who really wanted to do it than someone who felt burnt out.

And maybe you don't find a tip jar enticing, but I've put a few bucks in more than one tip jar on the Internet.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[PitaBred]

Because then he'd lose control of the reputation of the name.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[_Sprocket_]

I think she should pass on the mantle to someone she trusts. That person would not be PJ, and the sites flavor would change, but if the person were any good the coverage would still be there and valuable.

The Groklaw name isn't important. Anyone can pick up the mantle under a new name. Groklaw can settle in its place in history.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[IWannaBeAnAC]

Technocrat was a great site, especially early on, but I recall Bruce saying it never made money. It was fun for a while, but it acquired a somewhat fringe group of supporters (quasi survivalists) that gradually became lunatic. I'm not sure what exactly was the tipping point that caused Bruce to shut Technocrat down, but there were problems with offensive commenters, and the way it was going, sooner or later there was going to be something of interest to the FBI ;-). Or maybe it just didn't end up what Bruce wanted it to be ... ? Anyway, I doubt anyone would have been in a position to take over Technocrat - certainly some of the regular contributors would have been sad to see it go, but I doubt any of that crowd would have had either the cash or the inclination to take over running it.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Anonymous Coward]

A tip jar was put up long ago. On the left-hand side, scroll down and look for the Paypal button that says "Donate"

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[borbetomagus]

If a tip jar was put up, some of my money would likely find my way into it.

PJ does have a 'Tip Jar' -- There is a 'PayPal Donate' above the 'Groklaw Gear' T-shirt and 'Email PJ' icons on the left part of the web page...

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[mysidia]

I would like that very much.... I suppose the suits would have to be of concern to PJ though. I'm just saying.... I have no idea if PJ has any interest in Sony's suits.

They're a lot less important to the OSS community, anyways.

It's probably tough to find suits to cover that info will be available upon, that the whole OSS / Linux community cares a great deal about, that are likely to be fought to the bitter end like SCO was.

SCO went on for a long time.... I suspect most suits would be settled much earlier; with terms sealed from the public eye as condition of settlement

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[jd]

Or after. There's bound to be zombie cases to take up.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[hitmark]

Sometimes it is not for the money, but for the love of the topic. As such, one may not want to see it tarnished by future owners.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[nadaou]

Or sell the site. I never understood why Bruce shut Technocrat down. Why take your bat and ball and go home if you can get a few bucks for them?

I think it's called something like "integrity".

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Frosty Piss]

Also, at one point Bruce started offering to pay small amounts for accepted stories, but out of the ten or so that I submitted and had accepted, not a dime was paid out.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[RichiH]

> Why take your bat and ball and go home if you can get a few bucks for them?

At a wild guess, the unwillingness to let something you built up transform it into something you don't want it to while losing all possibility to change anything.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Raenex]

I think it's called something like "integrity".

Integrity would come into play if the site was actually worth money.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[tomhudson]

I think it's called something like "integrity".

Integrity would come into play if the site was actually worth money.

Site Information for groklaw.net Alexa Traffic Rank: 71,614
United States Flag Traffic Rank in US: 17,844
Sites Linking In: 2,187

That's certainly worth money.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Raenex]

I'm not so sure that's worth money, but I was referring to Technocrat in particular. The upthread comment was:

"I never understood why Bruce shut Technocrat down. Why take your bat and ball and go home if you can get a few bucks for them?"

Though I suppose if a few hundred or couple of thousand dollars is the amount in question, then yes, that's a fairly cheap price for integrity.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Anonymous Coward]

> I still think PJ should hand it to someone else she trusts to carry on.

You may not have noticed, but she doesn't trust anyone.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[KingBenny]

if something has no reputation or a name that invokes a certain mindset to the people hearing it, it has to prove itself, the people who created can work fresh, with no expectation of getting credit for whatever they did before, its motivation, but only to the ones who mean it :p

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[lennier]

Or after. There's bound to be zombie cases to take up.

If only Umbrella Corporation hadn't bought the rights to SCO...

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Anonymous Coward]

So folks who build a beautifully thing and sell it lack integrity? All business people lack integrity? The guy who sold me breakfast this morning lacked integrity? I assume that you forgo a pay check to protect your integrity?

Given the right business plan, Groklaw could be a social media site for legal activism. Good cases could bubble up to the top of internet interest and be a constructive force for justice.

I don't think making money from education, organization and giving the people a legitimate way to improve the world lacks integrity.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[Anonymous Coward]

So Groklaw was just about that one single aspect of tech law then? Disappointed at that more than its closure. A flattr account would also have gotten a few tips from me from time to time too. I pay for the stuff I like because I like it and I know that if I don't it will go away.

Re:Groklaw still could have a mission...

[dcollins]

There are lots of personal values that people hold aside from "get[ting] a few bucks". If you've never done it, it might be good to read a basic philosophy book or something.

There is so much more to groklaw than SCO

[ALeader71]

What a shame. Groklaw is one of the few places you could go for unbiased news on our industry, and the patent trolls that plague it.

So Groklaw is dead. Long live a new groklaw anyone?

Re:There is so much more to groklaw than SCO

[picotuxx]

There are rumours that Apple will sue Android vendors for few of their patents in the Linux EXT4 filesystem that is going to be used in Android.

Re:There is so much more to groklaw than SCO

[GoatseWarning!]

Goaste Alert! Parent link is g-g-goatse!

nuuuuuuuu!

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick, somebody buy up SCO and continue the suit!

Re:nuuuuuuuu!

[hedwards]

I'm game, I think I've got a couple dollars left from my last pay check.

And what about recent threats against HTC?

[binary1larry]

Yeah, HTC was sued recently for patents in the kernel by a patent troll

Re:And what about recent threats against HTC?

[GoatseWarning!]

Goatse Alert! Another goatse posting account!

Re:And what about recent threats against HTC?

[longhairedgnome]

So is this some sort of puppet account? Your UID is fairly close to the numbers of users you're fingerpointing at...

Re:And what about recent threats against HTC?

[GoatseWarning!]

I'm not a sock puppet, I'm a new account serving the purpose of 'Slashdot Anti-Sphincter Superhero'. I can't mod and post warnings in the same thread.

Re:And what about recent threats against HTC?

[msauve]

The account you're replying to is karma-whoring (and setting themselves up to do so).

Twitch

[msobkow]

"But I'm not dead yet!" -- Darl McBride

Re:Twitch

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh nonsense; you'll be stone dead in a moment.

Re:Twitch

[Samantha Wright]

Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.

Re:Twitch

[rrohbeck]

Quick, get the hammer and the stake!

Re:Twitch

[Anonymous Coward]

"Your not fooling anyone" -- Monty Python (Bring out your dead)

It was more than just SCO though

[Anonymous Coward]

Groklaw started with the fiasco over SCO, but there was a lot more than just the Linux fight with SCO. It demonstrated to the entire Linux community the minefield that had been lurking: patents, copyrights, and the fiasco that is the American Intellectual Property Industry. Its far more destructive to innovation and advances in science, progress and technology now than at any previous period in history (although the early middle ages and alchemy come close). But with Alchemy, you could claim that what you created in your castle cellar is yours (and no one would try to stop you). Where we are now, if you create something new that you've never seen before, and isn't yet on the market, someone somewhere will claim that all your research, design and development belongs to them, and will insist that you turn over all your work to them (stuff they don't have) because they were granted a broad, general patent, claiming everything you have (so hand it over, and if you don't a judge will make you). People don't even want to do R&D because some company will claim everything. Groklaw showed us this (and I learned what 'with prejudice' means, what 'pink sheets' are, and what the abbreviation NASDAQ (N.A.S.D.A.Q.) stands for, among other things). Thanks P.J.

Re:It was more than just SCO though

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, and the flip side of the coin is, it was more than just SCO. Who FUNDED SCO? They stopped being the Santa Cruz Operation a looong time ago. The gutted corpse was resurrected as a shambling zombie. And who was the puppet master? We've heard the names. The Canopy Group. Microsoft.

SCO and it's merry band of idiots with stupid names (Darl? Seriously?) were put in place as a cock-sure weapon against Linux. Too cock-sure, as they tripped up, and the community refused to put up with their bullshit. Remember the counter-protest? With the signs that had Linus Torvalds as a puppet of IBM? Those signs weren't drawn up at lunch break.

SCO may be no more but the puppet masters are still out there. Throwing in the towel now and declaring "victory" is stupid. We have won absolutely nothing.

Re:It was more than just SCO though

[Anonymous Coward]

PJ did a lot for quite a while. So to those bitching about the upcoming vacuum, step up or shut up. This thing worked because she took action. Now it's your turn, if you actually care.

Re:It was more than just SCO though

[shentino]

I think that Groklaw might be watched well by the same corporate overlords in charge of sourceforge and slashdot, really.

Maybe even the EFF.

Re:It was more than just SCO though

[Douglas Goodall]

While it is true that "puppet masters" are still out there, we are not paying SCO for Linux licenses. That is something we have won. Must we stay vigilant? Yes, absolutely. I wouldn't say PJ is throwing in the towel. The fight for freedom and justice is not a marathon, but rather a relay. I looked to see who made such hurtful and ignorant remark, and was not surprised to see it was Anonymous Coward (is that you Bill?). Nothing PJ ever said or did was "stupid".

Re:It was more than just SCO though

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent statement, kudos! Grammar related German Socio-political Movement comment: It's acronym, not abbreviation :)

Re:It was more than just SCO though

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that Groklaw might be watched well by the same corporate overlords in charge of sourceforge and slashdot, really.

Because they do such a great job maintaining Slashdot's editorial quality? Do you actually read the summaries the editors let through? The editors here do a lousy job, the only thing that make this site worth reading is some of the comments, which can be pure gold, though yours clearly doesn't fall into this catagory. ;)

I expect a long magazine article by PJ

[Anonymous Coward]

retelling the story of Groklaw in The New Yorker, the Atlantic, or similar upscale book, for a general audience, later this year or early next year. Hopefully, she won't sell her story to a business or computer mag.

Then she can hire an agent and talk about expanding that into a book, with additional background material about software IP, etc.

I'll pick up the magazine. Not sure about the book, that might take too long to read.

Re:I expect a long magazine article by PJ

[Anonymous Coward]

more like penthouse forum.

Re:I expect a long magazine article by PJ

[Samantha Wright]

Perhaps you shouldn't have suggested it, then? I mean, you kinda created your own problem here.

Re:I expect a long magazine article by PJ

[Anonymous Coward]

I also expect a complete rewrite of the history, with PJ claiming credit for other people's work, and proclaiming herself the #1 influence in the "downfall" of SCO.

Thanks from all of us!

[pr0f3550r]

Thanks for all your hard work Pamela. The open source community has benefited greatly from your efforts. Good luck in you future endeavors!

Re:Thanks from all of us!

[Mana Mana]

Ha? I did not think it likely, the conspiratorial (and the O so cute, "but I was there, I was the redhead with the maryjanes" bullshit) _Jones is a shill for the side of light_. But I nearly believe it now. I remember all the talk of `the good work will continue for the good free software fight, this is not a one trick pony.' Suddenly it is; isn't that special. I frankly never cared for anyone's cult of personality, and I never gave a flying rat less than a gnat's ass worth about her construct persona. Too much drama, thus as I would say to Madonna, Tom Cruise, Paris Hilton, Charlie Sheen, don't let the door hit you in the ass. One less thing.

Re:Thanks from all of us!

[jd]

Hear hear!

But if I could impress on PJ one thing, it would be to write a book on the case. What I'm picturing is a two-part book, the first basically a collection of her postings in order of publication together with the court's publications (copyright permitting) so that there's a single resource that can be referred to that isn't subject to servers being pulled or data being archived and taken offline. The second part would be a retrospective, an analysis of the analysis, so to speak, comparing hypotheses and expectations with actualities, illustrating what has been added to case law versus what was simply a restatement of existing case law.

This would be of enormous benefit to armchair enthusiasts without doubt, but by being formally presented in such a manner it may also be of benefit to law shools as a case study.

I don't know what PJ thinks on the matter, or if she'd take such an idea seriously, but in lieu of a decent honors system I'd argue she deserves professional recognition in some form or other and typically that means being referred to as an inspiring source.

I think thats OK

[thissone]

And thanks for all the fish. I will always the day I saw the article about legal threats to Linux Men I feel old now...

Re:I think thats OK

[GoatseWarning!]

Goatse Alert! We have another goatse link!

Re:I think thats OK

[mister_playboy]

When you respond to one of these posts one minute after it was made, do you really expect anyone to believe you aren't the very same person posting the goatse links?

You must have a lot of email addresses and a time on your hands. You and MichealKristopeit should hang out sometime.

Re:I think thats OK

[tomhudson]

You must have a lot of email addresses and a time on your hands. You and MichealKristopeit should hang out sometime. /blockquote Maybe we can fix them up with Alexander Peter Kowalski - the APk hosts file spam troll - and the three of them can get a room somewhere..

The link above goes to Goatse (n/t)

[arielCo]

you've been warned

who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

what's SCO? or Linux for that matter?

Re:who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that you Darl? :-)

Re:who cares?

[kimvette]

SCO is a grease spot under Novell's shoe.

badly needed

[TheSHAD0W]

Although Groklaw was founded because of SCO's actions, it, or a site like it, is badly needed. We all need to grok law. I hope the site will be spun off to other writers, or another site will take its place.

Re:badly needed

[k8to]

I think its the reverse.

I think law needs to be understandable, and if it isnt accessible, its a failure.

Re:badly needed

[Rakarra]

I think its the reverse.

I think law needs to be understandable, and if it isnt accessible, its a failure.

How do you reconcile that aim with the aim that the law be thorough and exact, to get rid of any grey areas? It seems a good portion of the legalese I see is that way because every situation the law (or contract) covers needs to be written down there.

Don't diminish, expand!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dang. I was hoping it would expand into a general-purpose US (and later global) law resource and central site for dissection of and commentary on ongoing legal issues.

What has risen from the ashes of the phoenix

[countertrolling]

is much more menacing..

That was just a tease of what's to come...

Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[phayes]

PJ deserves a thank you for everything she has done for us all. Show her that her efforts have been appreciated before it is too late!

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[MightyMartian]

Except by the disgruntled retards around here who bought SCO stock. They'll bitch and whine and claim PJ was a front for IBM's legal team until the end of time.

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[rahvin112]

because my decision is made and it's firm.

Maybe you should respect her wishes and leave her alone. It's people like you that are very likely the reason she's quiting.

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[Anonymous Coward]

"before it is too late"

In other words, before the site closes and there is no longer an outlet to thank them, not 'maybe she won't quit!'.

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't buy SCO stock, but even I think she was a front for them. Some ugly, stupid bitch gets emotionality upset and defends Linux with a blog? Sorry, asshole, not buying it. But I'm not surprised a troll like you does.

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't buy SCO stock, but even I think she was a front for them. Some ugly, stupid bitch gets emotionality upset and defends Linux with a blog? Sorry, asshole, not buying it. But I'm not surprised a troll like you does.

Awwww, the Microsoft plan didn't work. Didums!

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[sandytaru]

Considering the variety and scope of blogs out there, methinks you don't get out to the rest of the Internet very much.

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[im3w1l]

The conspiracy goes deeper than I thought!

Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[MightyMartian]

Of course you bought SCO stock. You're a classic SCO investor, bitter, stupid, with a mother that has prayed for years that you would drown in your cornflakes and spare her having to pretend she loves such a mutated pile of garbage.

Now, don't let the door hit you on the way out, and could you pick up the shit and piss your leaving behind, apparently your diaper gave out on you half your through your... um... rant.

Ok then, use your newfound service and direction

[unity100]

to render more services to public in the same subject - copyrights, patents, i.p., trolls, and all those stuff hampering our civilization's development.

Ding Dong the Witch (SCO) is dead

[AbrasiveCat]

Wow, I didn't think this day would ever come. (And thanks PJ for the work.)

Celebration in Chicago

[hackus]

I have an idea.

Why don't we have a party in Chicago to celebrate?

We could have Pam come and all of us who work in Open Source could buy pizza, drink way too many sugary caffinated drinks!

We could even have a pizza in the shape of SCO and slice the baby up and eat it!

-Hack

Re:Celebration in Chicago

[Samantha Wright]

I think eating pieces of SCO is likely to cause indigestion.

Re:Celebration in Chicago

[Anonymous Coward]

PJ won't show up. She hasn't show up to anything in the past and she will not show up to this. Hell she even stood up the EFF when they gave her a reward.

Re:Celebration in Chicago

[hackus]

Well, she is invited anyway.

I still say we should have a party.

-Hack

Re:Celebration in Chicago

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an idea.

Why don't we have a party in Chicago to celebrate?

We could have Pam come and all of us who work in Open Source could buy pizza, drink way too many sugary caffinated drinks!

We could even have a pizza in the shape of SCO and slice the baby up and eat it!

I doubt this would work. The Electronic Frontier Foundation held a award ceremony in San Francisco for PJ in which they presented her with the 2010 Pioneer award -- she did not show up. I stopped that day on my way home from work since it was held on the same street I work just to see if she would make an appearance to accept the award -- instead she sent ahead an animation video in lieu of a physical appearance as her acceptance.

Say what you will but she's either extremely cautious with her privacy or does not want to be known publicly for some other reason.

Re:Celebration in Chicago

[Anonymous Coward]

They already have a gay bar for all you open source fucktards to meet in. They have a back room you can jam each other in the ass as well.

Re:Celebration in Chicago

[Killjoy_NL]

Well we don't have anything else to do at the moment, with our victory over SCO being done with :)

G'bye and thanks for everything!

[Anonymous Coward]

"All the fish" doesn't apply here, because I'm not disappointed at her. She has been awesome and we really owe her. But then, as any other human being, she must sail to other seas, to face new adventures. May you be as succesful as you've been till now, PJ! Really, "thanks" does not even start to do justice to you.

Since SCO was your fight, it makes sense to close shop and go; sorry if I cannot yet party with you -- I'll wait for the day two things happen:

a) M$ market share gets down to 10%... IOW, they will be just another player, not the bully they current are and
b) they start to behave like a true capitalistic corporation, not like a soviet government-granted monopoly.

I'm not even asking for Linux to rule the world; I just a fair chance at competing, with the bully removed and -- hopefully -- with all parties involved in FOSS agreeing on interoperability standards. It will be a great day when every Linux user can freely choose Gnome, KDE or whatever.

Today we are bound by what distros care to offer...

Dead Person:

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want to go in the cart!

Re:Dead Person:

[Douglas Goodall]

Thud!!

The mission is far from acoomplished

[Dainsanefh]

SCO is dead. But the forces behind its tyranny is still pretty much alive. The patents, copyrights, Jewish lawyers and bankers etc.

Re:The mission is far from acoomplished

[Anonymous Coward]

and then you also have to target the Constitution behind it which gives protections to these mutants.

Might still need them

[perotbot]

with Novell selling the Patent portfolio off, we might need groklaw again......

Re:Might still need them

[ub3r n3u7r4l1st]

That's Nortel selling its patent to Google, not Novell.

Re:Might still need them

[alostpacket]

Novell is selling 800ish patents: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/04/08/apple_oracle_novell_patents/ There are numerous other articles on it if your not an el reg fan too: http://www.google.com/search?q=novell+patent

Re:Might still need them

[jd]

Novell's sale to Microsoft of various technologies has come under investigation I believe. Nonetheless, we need something/someone to monitor events. However, I'd suggest that groklaw would be the wrong forum - for now. We need to know intentions, motives, attitudes, not whether it's actually legal or not. This needs more of a private investigator or investigative journalist. Sadly, those aren't the people who tend to be interested in open and honest. Unless you can find a way of bringing Jeremy Brett back from the dead and turn him into a real consulting detective.

Re:Might still need them

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you are confusing two separate cases.

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RIP

[Nom du Keyboard]

RIP Groklaw. You changed the world for the better.

Re:RIP

[fatman22]

RIP in this case means "Rest In Pride" for a job well done.

Groklaw has been important and it should continue

[salesgeek]

I realize that PJ wants to move on. It is her life and she is free to do so. At the same time, I believe that Groklaw has a very solid place in technology media, and effort should be made to create an organization that can continue PJ's work. Incidentally, PJ's work has been helping technology people understand the law, and helping lawyers and judges understand technology and industry history.

Sic semper tyrannis

[Anonymous Coward]

Groklaw is a classic example of somebody letting the power go to her head. There were purges of dissenting opinion early on, when PJ realised she enjoyed the adulation more than anything else. Not much unlike Slashdot (e.g. watch this dissenting opinion moderated into oblivion; groupthink in action).

Good riddance.

Re:Sic semper tyrannis

[MightyMartian]

Another disgruntled SCO stockholder. What's it like to be among the most useless, retarded human beings on Earth?

Either way

[AliasMarlowe]

Send PJ a red dress for the closing party!

You know, it's too bad

[93 Escort Wagon]

It's too bad Microsoft didn't make this same decision after it won the desktop and browser wars.

Re:You know, it's too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Better than that faggot Linux. Just go suck a dick and be happy with your open source shit. Linux may be on tons of devices but it is losing more ground to better companies like Apple.

Disappointed

[PopeRatzo]

When I first read the headline, I thought Groklaw had finally defeated "a", "an" and "the".

Re:Disappointed

[StripedCow]

That would require an effort comparable to fixing the entire US patent system, I'm afraid.

Re:Disappointed

[Arslan ibn Da'ud]

That's what you get for skipping the article.

Re:Disappointed

[PopeRatzo]

That's what you get for skipping the article.

But that's the point! Groklaw said there would be no more articles.

many thanks

[phrostie]

I'm sad to hear it, but my thanks to her for making the difference that she did.

PJ is the bees knees!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I speak for many of us when I say that I will miss PJ's cogent analyses of the many legal issues that face the FOSS community today, and that I hope she will find the inspiration to continue her work in support the this community. Thank's PJ for all you have done, and I hope this isn't the last we will hear from you! As our Muslim brothers and sisters would say, Allah Akbar! God is Great, and PJ is awesome!

Re:Ok then, use your newfound service and directio

[NiceGeek]

Maybe PJ would like to have a life after putting up with all this crap. If you want a site like what you're suggesting, why don't you make one?

Bravo Re:Go leave a comment on groklaw people

[Fubari]

Bravo, phayes - that is exactly right. Everyone - post a thank you while you can (e.g. before May 16). It's a nice gesture.

btw, the groklaw paypal-donation button still works.
I tested it with a few bucks from my paypal account :-)
PJ's hard work has made the world a better place - again, just a nice gesture.

Will there be ...

[PPH]

... some secret order, like the Knights Templar, tasked with maintaining the secrets of Groklaw? Will there be some closely held incantation that will resurrect it should Evil again walk the face of the Earth?

Thanks Pam

[regexgreg]

I would just like to thank Pam. "Thank You Pam; you have done an amazing job the last ten years or so." Now we just need her to join the Patent reform wars.

Pamela Jones

[mlauzon]

I remember a few years back, they were trying to find out if Pamela Jones was a real person, has anyone tracked "her" down yet?

Re:Pamela Jones

[tomhudson]

RMS, SJVN, etc., have met her. Or are you going to say they don't exist either?

Re:Pamela Jones

[FlorianMueller]

Where did RMS ever confirm to have met PJ?

Re:Pamela Jones

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I have my skepticism about RMS.

Air, water, and carbohydrates needed for life aren't open source. Neither is gravity and most of physics.

If there is an RMS, I suspect he's long dead, Asphyxiation, dehydration, starvation or being flung off the earth aren't things people easily survive.

Re:Pamela Jones

[mrvan]

I think physics is an interpreted language, so the executable is the source code. I have the nagging feeling however that waiting for author death plus 75 (or whatever it is nowadays) will take a while, so here's hoping that (s)he has released it into the public domain (although some of the more jealous accounts make one doubt it). There was even a message board on which the author left a number of comments, but that got trolled so heavily we have no idea what is from the programmer and what is a goatse link...)

Re:Pamela Jones

[tomhudson]

Why don't you go and ask him, you silly troll? Or better yet, you could always just google ... and look for where Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is cited as saying:

Since PJ has disappeared recently, there are now rumours abounding again that she does not exist. However Linux Watch's Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols said that Jones did exist as he had met her several times and chatted on email.

"She is not a front for anyone. She is a paralegal, hence her excellent legal research skills, which are the foundation of her stories. And, she's a journalist by any standard I know of," he wrote. He admits that he has never seen her passport, but he deeply admires her anyway.

Of course, one could be forgiven of thinking you never met a lie you didn't like, with all your FUD.

Your attacks on PJ have been motivated by a combination of jealousy and plain old-fashioned sexism. As a wannabe "mouthpiece", you can't stand that Pamela is one of the most important, and most respected, people in the F/LOSS ecosystem.

You simply can't bear the thought that a woman could do what PJ did - hence all the cries of "who is Pamela Jones", "she doesn't exist", "she's really a team of IBM lawyers", etc.

It was necessary for your purposes to make Pamela Jones into something less than a woman and a grandmother; after all, viciously attacking a grandmother for pointing out the truth would lump you in with the wife-beaters, child molesters, and other scum.

And you know what's funny? She's leaving on a high note, having accomplished what she set out to do - you on the other hand, have single-handedly earned yourself a reputation as a rather boring buffoon. You really are jealous of her, and it shows.

Re:Pamela Jones

[Macthorpe]

It is possible to disagree with PJ and not be financially motivated, sexist or any other of the things you randomly accused him of being.

If we followed your reasoning, we could only conclude you're jealous of Florian Mueller - after all, you seem to respond to all his posts and attack him, so what else could it be?

Re:Pamela Jones

[tomhudson]

I don't respond to the vast majority of FM's posts - I don't even see them.

However, I'm the one who posted the original story, and I do have a history of attacking FM when his lies do attract my attention (as they did starting with his lies wrt TurboHercules, and his subsequent attacks on RedHat). My motivation is simple - the guy lies, and his lies happen to attack something I value - F/LOSS.

Now throw in that he is still continuing to claim that PJ doesn't exist, despite Steven Vaughan-Nichols saying that he's met her several times. The guy lies, knows its a lie, but continues to do so because that's the only way he can't come across as a spineless cur slandering a grandmother.

His unfounded attacks on open source are also well known, as are his attempts to give an impression he's a lawyer when he's not. When asked who pays him, he doesn't say. Instead, he refers people to wikipeida, but nowhere does that say who is paying him to do his current 2-year FUD campaign against open source. The questions he tries to avoid answering, rather than saying "none of your business", are most revealing.

Re:Pamela Jones

[Anonymous Coward]

You dumb bitch. Steven Vaughan-Nichols is a wanna-be journalist and top notch douche bag. I wouldn't believe him if he said he met the janitor who cleans the shitters at McDonald's.

Re:Pamela Jones

[tomhudson]

He writes better than you do

Today, as Jones wrote, âoeThe crisis SCO initiated over Linux is over, and Linux won. SCO as we knew it is no more.â And, thatâ(TM)s what really important here, not the carping of desperate anti-Linux enemies looking for anything to whine about.

Linux has won. It dominates the smartphone market. It owns a virtual monopoly in supercomputing. It powers the biggest websites that people use every day - google, facebook, amazon. It runs the worlds stock exchanges and financial markets. Linux webservers power the web. It's over. Linux has won, SCO and the people funding SCOs attack on linux, have lost.

Yes, there is a PJ

Let me address this directly. Yes, Pamela Jones is a real person. Iâ(TM)ve met her several times, and Iâ(TM)ve often âoetalkedâ with her on email and IM. I consider her a friend.

She is not a front for anyone. She is a paralegal, hence her excellent legal research skills, which are the foundation of her stories. And, sheâ(TM)s a journalist by any standard I know of.

So, you're just a sore loser.

Re:Pamela Jones

[k8to]

Florian is deserving of ridicule.

Ask him bluntly what what if any are the sources of his funding for doing this "work". He will say many things, but he will certainly not answer you.

He's paid by Microsoft to invent problems in the open source world.

Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the great work.

Like Batman, choose a successor

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone else should continue the fight against the next evildoer. But be sure to train them well.

Groklaw sucks, SCO wins

[Anonymous Coward]

Groklaw has ALWAYS *SUCKED*

PJ (not their real name) has hidden behind a fake name for far too long,
and refuses to allow anyone to post anything that's contrary to the "party line"

even if what's being posted is the TRUTH

god forbid you should contradict one of s/he's holier than thou postings with FACTS - can't have that - you get banned forever
it's happened to a lot of people.

even I posted a factual contradiction to a posting this PJ had made saying "wait, that's not what the article you posted said at all!"
this PJ had edited the article and deleted anything that didn't support their point of view.

my posting of the actual, complete, real article disrupted the FUD fest going on.

I was banned for life, for that one single incident, for daring to speak the truth

I said goodbye and good riddance to the crapfest that was Groklaw, it outlived its 15 minutes of fame ages ago and has ceased being useful for years.

I won't miss it.

oh yes, SCO hasn't lost yet - they will be around for years, and all the execs there will walk away with millions - no charges, no jail, no nothing. I bet you $$$

If I were running slashdot...

[symbolset]

Then this article's comments would be a case study in what to fix.

Here's an amazing idea

[lildogie]

There should be a link right there on the page, that you could click, and give it your credit card, and then you could leave a tip. Yeah, I know it was already pointed out, but you know, sometimes enough is not enough.

Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censorship

[FlorianMueller]

Groklaw's well-documented "sandboxing" of user comments was a serious issue, and I think too many people forget about that in light of the announcement of its shutdown.

Tip jar: it's there

[LarryWest42]

.... If a tip jar was put up, some of my money would likely find my way into it.

Click on the small "PayPal / donate" icon in the left-hand column.

Re:Tip jar: it's there

[Omnifarious]

That link is small, and I missed it. :-/ I have donated now, and left her a note of thanks as well as concern over her comment removal policies. I really do appreciate the work she has done, and my fondest wish would be for her to get thousands in donations just like mine with a similar note of both thanks and concern.

Battle has been won, but the war goes on.

[tronkel]

As a dyed-in-the-wool Linux/Internet addict, I have to thank PJ for providing an important component of my many-times-a-day internet fix. This addiction has largely defined my lifestyle over a period of many years, so this latest news will have implications for my poor old psyche. Groklaw sits just above Slashdot on my iGoogle homepage. First of all a huge thanks to PJ for all she has done in this absolutely vital area of Linux endeavour. I wish her only the best in her now altered lifestyle - she deserves this break more than anyone else I can think of. What now? How is the Novell/Attachmate saga going to get monitored? Microsoft/Google slinging match? Hotz? Oracle/Google?Still so much to do - unending I'm afraid - but it's vital for open-source that the good fight does continue, business as usual. Vigilance over the rights of free software needs to continue in the mould of the highly professional way that PJ has shown us. Anything less than that could cost us our cherished Linux freedoms. Maybe several blogs can be used in order to spread the work-load. Nuf said.

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[makomk]

Wasn't that well-documented when I found out about it; only discovered Groklaw's unofficial comment policies myself due to a random cryptic troll comment on Slashdot, and that article is newish. Basically they delete comments that go against Groklaw's POV and the users posting them, then delete comments referencing the fact they've deleted comments or banned users to conceal the fact they're hiding stuff from their readers. They also "sandbox" comments so that the poster thinks the comment is visible but only they can see it. Oh, and the users they delete effectively become unpersons: the comments are re-attributed to Anonymous and their profiles 404.

Groklaw isn't the only site that does this kind of thing; Digg has a similar history deleting critical comments (most egregiously to make it seem no-one objected when they got caught secretly soliciting money for front-page posts on the site) and a similar "shadowban" mechanism for concealing from users that they've been banned and none of their comments are showing up. Several other sites use comment deletion to stop their readers hearing about contradictory opinions too. No matter who does it,it makes it hard to trust that site.

I am disappomted

[Anonymous Coward]

They had a lot of useful factual information on the Oracle-Google (Android) case

Who is PJ?

[Pascal Sartoretti]

I perfectly understand PJ's right to privacy, but I have always been puzzled by the fact that nobody seems to have ever met her physically.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Hope Thelps]

I perfectly understand PJ's right to privacy, but I have always been puzzled by the fact that nobody seems to have ever met her physically.

I think at least a few people have met her (or at least have claimed to have doesn't and there doesn't seem to be any reason to doubt them).

But the only one a quick Google search brings up is Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols and he does admit that he didn't check her passport, and those can be faked anyway, so I guess there's still room for mystery if you're into that sort of thing.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously you have never read Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols... he has stated that he has met her.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Anonymous Coward]

And has anyone ever seen PJ's birth certificate? A decades-old newspaper announcement and a certificate of live birth won't cut it.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Douglas Goodall]

You don't have to be very paranoid to realize that business issues about millions or BILLions of dollars can result is unexplained accidents. If PJ wanted to tell her perception of the truth about the actions of big players, a degree of anonymity is/was actually wise. I decided years ago to "keep my head down" about some issues in life. I am just a small fish and can get squashed relatively easily by big players.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Pascal Sartoretti]

But the only one a quick Google search brings up is Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

I am not a journalist, but I thought that "one source = no source"...

and he does admit that he didn't check her passport, and those can be faked anyway, so I guess there's still room for mystery if you're into that sort of thing.

I don't care about here passport or age or anything personal; I would just like to be sure that she is a real human being and not for instance the creation of a bunch of IBM lawyers.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Pascal Sartoretti]

You don't have to be very paranoid to realize that business issues about millions or BILLions of dollars can result is unexplained accidents. If PJ wanted to tell her perception of the truth about the actions of big players, a degree of anonymity is/was actually wise

It was wise. After the victory, it begins to be fishy.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Hope Thelps]

I am not a journalist, but I thought that "one source = no source"...

Dunno, I would have said that one source=one source (which might not be enough sources for a newspaper - I expect it would depend on what the story is) but then I'm not a journalist either. Not sure really whether you're criticising Vaughan-Nichols for writing that he'd met her purely on the basis of himself as a source or me for pointing out someone who claims to have met her.

Re:Who is PJ?

[Pascal Sartoretti]

Not sure really whether you're criticising Vaughan-Nichols for writing that he'd met her purely on the basis of himself as a source or me for pointing out someone who claims to have met her.

Sorry, I didn't mean to criticize anyone. I believe that Vaughan-Nichols met someone who claimed to be PJ, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the now obvious suspicion that you're nothing but a professional lobbyist and a concern troll, there is nothing to do about your posts other than systematically ask you, each time, to finally answer the one question you never answer, not even in your usual weasel way:
Florian, who do you work for?

Alas, Groklaw.

[Lorien_the_first_one]

I found Groklaw in 2003. I can't even remember exactly how i found it. All I remember is that on the first article, I was chuckling to myself and then laughing out loud while reading Pamela's exquisite humor while recounting some absurd action on the part of SCO. Over the ensuing weeks, I became fascinated by this lawsuit and all it's gory details. By 2006, I was spending an hour or so everyday reading the pleadings, understanding the arguments and reading the comments.

There was something that came out of that whole experience that I will never forget. The teamwork. Those guys were committed, totally committed to getting it done. People went to the courthouse, got the pleadings, scanned them, OCR'd them and checked for errors and then formatted them for ease of reading.

Groklaw is also what pushed me over the edge away from Windows, forever. Their description of the Linux community, their enthusiasm and their sheer drive to make Linux a pleasing environment to work in just blew me away. I had to have this, I thought. By mid-2007, I was completely off Windows for my personal computing. I'm a late starter, but now I'm learning the shell, exploring regular expressions and basic bash programming. I'm learning more about how computers work with Linux than I ever have with Windows. I can even see the humor in the help files.

Groklaw gave me a gift that I will never forget. So when Pamela says it's time to quit, I totally understand and wish her well in all her endeavors. They are still putting together the Comes exhibits and tracking lawsuits. There will be plenty of reference material to work with, and all of it will still be in the Library of Congress.

Groklaw is also how I discovered Slashdot. I'm really happy to be a part of this community, even if only a very small part.

Sunlight is the best antiseptic

[fritsd]

The logo on Groklaw is a penguin holding a magnifying glass, presumably peering at some cryptic legal "SCO vs World" text.

I think PJ's goal was to "shine a light" on murky legal dealings that us mere mortals find too boring to try to understand, and put the salient bits under her magnifying glass. She always uses the primary source material (the actual court documents) and then underlines bits which she explains in normal language.

If you find Groklaw too boring or too difficult (because we all only have one life and so many things to do), please remember the following saying for the rest of your life because we're going to need it in this century if/when Western civilization starts to crumble a bit around the edges:

Sunlight is the best disinfectant -- U.S.A. Supreme Court judge Louis Brandeis

An Obvious response.

[3seas]

Thank you Pamela Jones for all the fish.

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah !!! A Groklaw story... out comes the lobbyist Florian Mueller...

Your employers need to get better paid help, your trolling is old news... got anything better? A 5 month old story is that all you've got?

Dear PJ.

[cre_slash]

I just want to say thanks for all your good work! Live long and prosper, as they say :)

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[tomhudson]

First, Groklaw is NOT shutting down. Just that no new articles will be posted. The site will remain running, all the content will still be there, including the proof that you're a shill and a troll.

Second, the policy is only used to prevent groklaw from becoming a platform for the dissemination of FUD - you know, the stuff you like to spread because you have nothing better to do.

Third, as another poster asks, what do you do for a living and who pays you? .

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[tomhudson]

Florian Mueller is really a team of Microsoft lawyers.

<reality>Florian Mueller is really just some shill who is frustrated that everyone makes fun of him and his "opinions".</reality>

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[Anonymous Coward]

All I ever see in your posts is anti-Microsoft wankery and you accusing everyone else on the site who disagrees with you of being a shill.

Who the fuck do you work for?

Superman

[kikito]

That's like superman saying "I've stopped these jewelry burglars, so now I've decided to retire".

I mean, thanks a lot and all that. But other causes could use your legal insight.

Who will give us the scoop on what SCEA is up to?

[FeatherBoa]

Seriously, I was looking forward to another round of thoughtful analysis of what happens in the various Sony litigations.

It is certainly true that the SCO circus wound down to an exceedingly dull side show in the last year, and that Groklaw has been searching a bit to find material that really captures the imagination. But with a new, interesting Sony circus setting up in town, I would have thought that Groklaw would be back at the top of its game -- indeed recent postings on SCEA indicate that it is.

In SCO, it is clear that both sides, and maybe the judges, read Groklaw. That thoughtful and thorough analysis contributed, I'm sure materially, to the rightful outcome. It also gave thousands of folks an insight into this sort of protracted, cynical legal process that we would otherwise never have had. I always assumed that litigants like SCO were full of bovine droppings, but it took Groklaw to demonstrate the exact shade of brown, and what methods they might use to pretend that the droppings were solid gold.

I am grateful to PJ and all the other contributors to Groklaw for their efforts and the material benefits that have come from them. The world is a better place because of their efforts. Thank you.

SCO minivan of mimes

[Anonymous Coward]

No discussion of SCO will ever be complete without c's legendary SCO minivan comment:

Picture McBride behind the wheel of a minivan, flying down a drag strip as fast as 6 cylinders can take it on a collision course with a main battle tank. The SCO van has lights flashing, sirens blaring, mimes doing handstands on the roof, and maybe a little T&A out the sunroof. Oh, and it's full of lawyers.

The tank isn't doing much of anything, really.

Now, what we're all wondering... Is Darl McBride just some crazy lunatic powering his shitbox down the road and maybe planning on turning at the last minute, or does he really have something in that minivan that can take out a tank. And if he does, when is he gonna whip it out? Will the tank bring around the main gun and blast him, or will it just use the machine gun? How many lawyers are killed? Mimes? Will the minivan turn into a DeLorean at the very last second and blast a trail through time?!?

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[tomhudson]

Don't you follow the other Anonymous Cowards who attack me? I'm (in this latest version) an evil programmer who writes spyware for the Russian Mafia (or something like that - it's hard for them to keep their stories coherent).

Who knows - maybe they're right, and by reading this comment, you've been infected ...

Thank you PJ

[lsatenstein]

I assume that Groklaw was a labor of love, without monitory compensation. Pamela has to earn a living, and I applaud her for recognizing when to stop,

She clearly does not work for the government

[Anonymous Coward]

She had a goal, worked towards the goal, and when she felt she had achieved the goal, ended her mission.

MADD started out with a mission - end drunk driving. As the 80's went on, and into the 90s, drunk driving related fatalities fell sharply. You could argue that their mission had been achieved to a practical maximum degree. Rather than end their mission, or work on maintaining the gains they had achieved, they changed their mission to stop drug and alcool use (Mothers against destructive decisions), neo prohibitionists. Now the founder openly distances herself from the group.

Thank you for sticking to your mission statement, and not about how to capitalize on the groklaw "brand."

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[Omnifarious]

Wow. If I had any doubt that all the stuff on the IBM vs. Hercules site is absolutely true, that doubt has been removed by this post. I don't care who the person works for or who pays him or her. I do care about the stuff on the other side of that link. And by handwavingly dismissing it as FUD (which it self-evidently isn't), then turning around and attacking the source, you've just told me there's something to hide that can't actually stand the light of day.

I still have a great deal of respect for Groklaw, but that respect has suffered a serious amount of tarnish, and I'm now glad that the site will no longer be updated. I would like someone else to take up the reporting and dissection that was done there, and I do not want PJ involved in picking that person in any way. She is clearly not capable of being unbiased and impartial enough to pick a good successor.

Lessons from Sheen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh. Winning.

Florian Mueller comments:

[Anonymous Coward]

How can PJ be a "reputable person" without ever having disclosed one past or current employer?

It's not about a "disdain for all things PJ". The problem is that Groklaw has constantly tried to capitalize on many people's desire for simple fairy-tale-like black-and-white views. Groklaw has, partly in its articles and partly in discussions, engaged in character assassination. The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more credulous and less informed people now distrust a very smart analyst like Rob Enderle, very smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons, or a very smart author like Ed Bott, only because they comment on certain issues with greater sanity than Groklaw.

http://lwn.net/Articles/437650/

Hear! Hear!

[SPrintF]

Please mod up. This is a textbook case, with lessons for everyone in the community.

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[tomhudson]

It's FUD because it's based on lies. For example, IBM never initiated any threats. What happened was that TurboHercules, who were trying to monetize the Hercules project, tried to goad IBM into suing ... and failed.

They asked IBM what patents the emulator might be infringing, and IBM gave them a list, as requested. From that, all of a sudden they were screaming "IBM is going to sue us for infringement", showing the response from IBM as if it were something IBM sent them out of the blue, rather than a response to their own question.

IBM only reacted to the attempts to monetize the Hercules emulator by Roger Bowler, and btw, what Bowler wanted to do is both a licensing and a copyright violation. You simply don't have a right to run multiple copies of an OS when you've only paid for one - and the Hercules emulator needs to run on top of a copy of IBMs OS. It's like saying you have the right to run an extra copy of Windows or OSX so you can run a terminal emulator.

Mueller and a few others were making libelous claims against IBM on groklaw and a lot of other sites. On groklaw, the policy is simple - no swearing, no using *** to hide swearing, such as b*tch or sh*t, etc., and outright lies will probably get you the boot.

In the case of the Hercules emulator, which runs on top of IBMs operating system, there is no doubt that what Bowler want to do (and what Mueller is claiming should be allowed) is a copyright violation. You don't have a right to take your copy of the operating system and install a second copy (never mind a whole slew of copies) of it to run on other machines while "in recovery mode" - ie: a term they coined to try to give legitimacy to making extra copies of the OS.

more details.

Florian Mueller, unemployable hack

[tomhudson]

or as he puts it, "independent.

RE: Mission Accomplished: SCO Loses, Groklaw Closes
@Robert Hahn Contrary to what you wrote in your 04/10/2011 12:34 PM comment, I don't have an employer. I'm simply independent.

So, now we know why Mueller can troll so many different discussion boards full-time. He doesn't have a job. He's "independent." Nobody is paying him for his "services."

In other words, he's one of those "useful fools" that can be exploited because they hope that, in return, a company like Mickeysoft will throw them a bone at some future date.

PJ was real enough for me

[Nefarious Wheel]

It was a human who did the job, and a human to whom I offer thanks.

And in thwarting the outright theft of Linux freedom by SCO, she's got a place in my heart forever.

I will miss Groklaw. Harsh light of provable truth on a terrible, dirty little scam by another corporation who wanted to own us. We won.

Thanks, [PJ! We owe you half the industry. Wish we could pay you what you were worth.

Re:Don't forget about Groklaw's dark side: censors

[dbIII]

So how then should they deal with spammers, astroturfers and fanboy trolls in addition to simple obscenity which can get them blocked by software or annoyed people?
Nearly every comment site on the net has the "dark side" you mention so it's not a serious issue just an empty complaint. Even on this site comments are modded down so they cannot be easily read (usually for very good reason) or deleted (Scientologists insisted on that one).

Florian's insults become compliments

[dbIII]

The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more credulous and less informed people now distrust ... smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara

Amityville fucking Horror - she's no journalist. She's writes fiction and pretends it's real so people should be warned about her. Not to mention the disgusting stalking behavior going after PJ's mother.

and Dan Lyons

Fake Steve Jobs? Why should we trust fake Steve Jobs and his Lunix rants? I wondered why he did that when it wasn't on topic, remotely funny or remotely like anything Steve Jobs would ever say until it became clear that he was mixing it up with his SCO job.

The other two are not such obvious slime that they have an international bad reputation so I'll leave that to others.

PJ did us a service by showing that those people are liars for hire - although it was pretty easy to work out if you've seen much of anything else that had written.

Re:Florian's insults become compliments

[Rakarra]

Amityville fucking Horror - she's no journalist. She's writes fiction and pretends it's real so people should be warned about her. Not to mention the disgusting stalking behavior going after PJ's mother.

That was pretty disgusting. I'm sure the fact that the company she owned, G2 Computer Intelligence, was a creditor for SCO had nothing to do with that papparazi.

The other two are not such obvious slime that they have an international bad reputation so I'll leave that to others.

I think Rob Enderle is pretty bad. Not as slimy as O'Gara was, but his constant relentless anti-Linux rants aren't what was I would expect from a credible "very smart analyst." You can say what you want about the Free Software community, but the notion that it contributes nothing to the common good or a private good is foolish.