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TJX Hacker Claims US Authorized His Crimes

doperative writes "Convicted hacker Albert Gonzalez is asking a federal judge to throw out his earlier guilty pleas and lift his record-breaking 20-year prison sentence, on allegations that the government authorized his years-long crime spree. From the article: 'The government has acknowledged that Gonzalez was a key undercover Secret Service informant at the time of the breaches. Now, in a March 24 habeas corpus petition filed in the US District Court in Massachusetts, Gonzalez asserts that the Secret Service authorized him to commit the crimes. “I still believe that I was acting on behalf of the United States Secret Service and that I was authorized and directed to engage in the conduct I committed as part of my assignment to gather intelligence and seek out international cyber criminals,” he wrote. “I now know and understand that I have been used as a scapegoat to cover someone’s mistakes.”'"

27 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. It's illegal... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's illegal if the gov't does it too. They can't "authorized" illegal activity, and "following orders" is not a legal defense.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:It's illegal... by masterwit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes but perhaps his sentence will be taken into consideration considering these new facts (if they are true). That is why these sentences have a range of penalties...

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    2. Re:It's illegal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. Possibly he has accomplices in Government who should also be behind bars but I don't see how that undermines his own conviction.

    3. Re:It's illegal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes but perhaps his sentence will be taken into consideration considering these new facts (if they are true). That is why these sentences have a range of penalties...

      Seems like government agents breaking laws like these (theft and fraud) should be subject to harsher penalties. Something's seriously wrong if they get lighter ones.

    4. Re:It's illegal... by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah it kind of is, It's called the Nuremburg Defense. It's still illegal but what this guy is saying is that it was is (CO? Handler? I'm not sure of the terminology in this instance) commiting the crime based on the Command Responsibility doctorine.

    5. Re:It's illegal... by HungryHobo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd be very doubtful unless he has good proof he was working for the government.

      the government can do a lot of things and authorize it's agents to do a lot of things which would be illegal otherwise.

      For a trivial example:The executioner is not guilty of murder for executing a person sentenced to death.

      Police can take someone against their will and lock them up overnight for very flimsy reasons without the same penalties as a kidnapper who does the same thing for the same reasons.(Just try locking up your neighbor in your basement against his will to punish him for being drunk in public and see how it turns out for you)

      If someone believes their actions are at the behest of their government it shouldn't be a total defense but intent is important.

    6. Re:It's illegal... by Jurily · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seems like government agents breaking laws like these (theft and fraud) should be subject to harsher penalties to the people who ordered them.

    7. Re:It's illegal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unless he has documented proof that he was receiving these directions (e-mails, recorded conversations (legally recorded or not), etc.) I think his status declines from "government agent" to "sucker."

    8. Re:It's illegal... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd be very doubtful unless he has good proof he was working for the government.

      According to the article, the government has already admitted that he (Gonzalez) worked for them.

      The strange thing about this is that Gonzalez signed a plea bargain and is now trying to break it. I'm not clear on all the details. Maybe it was one of those situations where someone in the government told him: "Plead guilty and we'll get you a suspended sentence and then you can continue to work for us" but then the judge, not wanting to appear weak on a "cyber" criminal, dropped the 20-bomb on him. That's a long bit for a young nerd to do, even someone who played with Russian mobsters.

      Again, I'm not clear on the details, but I could see the government playing with a guy's life like that, especially someone who was already breaking the law when he first got involved with the Feds.

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      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:It's illegal... by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd be very doubtful unless he has good proof he was working for the government.

      Uhm.. the government ALREADY ADMITTED that they were using him as an undercover informant.

      One of those things about the word "undercover" is that unless you are participating in what is going on, chances are the people you are trying to inform on will peg you real quick. "Hey, don't talk to that guy, everyone he talks to gets busted by the feds."

      The Secret Service is no different than any other law enforcement agency. The dirtiest, most corrupt wing is always "Vice", simply because in order to find the guys they're trying to bust the cops have to get very, very, very dirty themselves. Sometimes they go native, sometimes they really go native, sometimes they get really freaking insane (more here. Sometimes it's even worse. Undercover cops on major mafia infiltration cases have had almost carte blanche to participate in anything that went on, so long as they testified later.

      Am I completely convinced he's telling the truth? No. Is it reasonably plausible that someone in the Secret Service gave him verbal instructions to do certain things in order to keep his credibility up so as to set up future busts, but then decided he wasn't worth it and used him as a scapegoat? Absolutely.

    10. Re:It's illegal... by microbox · · Score: 2

      They can't "authorized" illegal activity, and "following orders" is not a legal defense.

      Unless it is illegal warrantless wiretapping, and you are a big telco.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    11. Re:It's illegal... by RobertLTux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      actually the break goes the other way if he was promised a suspended sentence and the Judge gave him a "couple dimes" then the state broke the agreement.

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    12. Re:It's illegal... by shentino · · Score: 2

      He may well have a duress defense if he was blackmailed into it with threats of a bigger sentence.

    13. Re:It's illegal... by Jurily · · Score: 2

      If we make it a matter of a soldier (cyber or otherwise) going "Well if you want to take that risk, sir" rather than "Fuck you, sir" - it makes it that much easier for the government to be corrupt.

      Keep in mind that those people who casually order you to commit crimes, may also casually order other people to commit crimes against you. I would certainly take this into account when dealing out sentences.

    14. Re:It's illegal... by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 2

      It's only illegal if the law says it's illegal. A lot of the "anti-hacking" laws have provisions that basically say "This law not applicable to Law Enforcement and the US Government". So "It's illegal if the gov't does it too" isn't always true.

    15. Re:It's illegal... by darth+dickinson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seems like government agents breaking laws like these (theft and fraud) should be subject to harsher penalties. Something's seriously wrong if they get lighter ones.

      So, you're saying that narcs should get jail time for buying illegal drugs, in order to catch dealers "in the act"?

    16. Re:It's illegal... by tsm_sf · · Score: 2

      From what I can tell, Nuremberg is the only instance where this defense didn't work.

      (only very slightly sarcastic here)

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    17. Re:It's illegal... by Golddess · · Score: 2

      it was declared invalid then and should be declared invalid now

      Right, because torturing and murdering thousands* of people is completely the same thing as what this guy did.

      Now I'm not saying that this guy should get off scot-free (I don't have enough evidence to say one way or the other), only that you are a moron.

      *Yes, the overall deathtoll was in the millions, but I'm being generous and guessing that any one individual person was only involved with enough people to number in the thousands.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    18. Re:It's illegal... by mmaniaci · · Score: 2

      A resounding YES. Undercover cops buying drugs is not quite entrapment, but IMO they're just exploiting a loophole so it may as well be. The war on drugs is a farce anyhow.

  2. Thought he was full of it, until I saw his handler by unassimilatible · · Score: 4, Interesting

    After seeing the agent in charge of Gonzalez, now I'm thinking there might be some truth...out there.

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  3. Re:almighty; rebates, bailouts coming, giving back by bmo · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, you're wrong.

    It's the Illuminati bringing back The Old Ones to immanentize the eschaton.

    The sarcrifices will begin after midnight, right after the American Medical Association band does its third encore.

    --
    BMO

  4. Ummmm, not buying the bullshit by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry, but this sounds really implausible to me. I'd need to see some solid proof before Id' accept this. For one, I can't see what the Secret Service would hope to gain. I mean if they need records for credit card transactions at stores they've got a far easier way to get them: Just subpoena the CC processors. They can have whoever the stores use (companies like Paymentech or the like) hand over all the records. Not only is that legal, but it is also much more covert since the companies themselves are not compromised.

    This would be how investigations work. They just get a court order for the people who have the info to hand it over, they don't hire some random guy to try and hack your shit. They get a subpoena or a warrant (depending on what they need, in some cases they might want to monitor traffic live for that they'd have a wiretap warrant) and they go to the people with the info. It's legal, maintains the chain of evidence, and gets much more guaranteed results than hacking.

    Also I find it hard to believe that if he really was working under orders from the SS that he wouldn't have told his lawyers and they wouldn't have done something. In my experience federal public defenders aren't morons. It is a good job, they can get good people. I can't imagine if he had opened up with "Guys I didn't think I was doing anything wrong! The Secret Service told me to do this!" they wouldn't have investigated that.

    To me, sounds like something he invented in a way to try and get out of jail. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I find it rather beyond credibility.

  5. He's arguing ineffective assistance of counsel by unassimilatible · · Score: 2

    Essentially saying his attorney F'd up. The attorney has a right to defend himself against false charges of malpractice. Otherwise, every single criminal defense attorney who lost a case could be sued with no defense. I think the theory here is, lawyers have a duty of confidentiality about what they are told, but no such duty about what they weren't told, and no duty to further propagate lies clients tell them. On the contrary, there is a crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege.

    IAALBNYLSDROTALA (I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer So Don't Rely On This As Legal Advice).

    --
    Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
  6. Goverment + Hackers = Scapegoat by MrSenile · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having had... friends... involved in similar situations, I can attest to the case that if this guy worked for the Government, and was a scapegoat, they basically set him up for failure.

    If he succeeded and was able to hide his tracks of hacking, the Government got their information and won.

    If he failed and was unable to hide his tracks of hacking, the Government got partial information and won.

    If the guy failed gloriously, the Government got what information they could, and have an instant scapegoat. Just add press. And won.

    Win win for the government, and they can say at any time plausible deniability.

    The friend in question I had was an excellent hacker. He hacked into banks for shits and giggles, went into government systems like a person would skip in the park. One day, he screwed up, the government found out, the guy disappeared. No jail time, no newspaper/press of him hacking. And all his college entrance and time spent at college disappeared as well. For all intents and purposes the guy never went to college, and I'll be surprised if there was anything other than a clean-record of the guy other than being born, his SS#, and place of residence. White-washed history for government signed-on hacker. And because of the dirt the government now had on this guy, he became Uncle Sam's bitch.

    How the good ol' government gets these people to accept said positions of scapegoatness is fairly simple.

    They find dirt on someone exceptionally good at computer espionage, or if they can't find legit dirt, they create some and seed it throughout the gold ol' internet and stack false records against them, at least in such a way to make it... difficult... for the target individual to live a decent life without cow-towing to the government officials.

    Said person signs documentation that makes them 'legally' work for said government that is their 'get out of jail free' card. Except, the documentation doesn't really exist unless it is in the best interests of the government. Ergo, they have the hacker by the balls. The hacker continues to do a good job, and can cover their tracks enough to not point a finger at the government in -any way- or can hide their existance in such a way to be not backtraced, any and all possible ability to nail the guy goes up in smoke. All logs, all reports, disappear. If they can point their finger in anyway at either the hacker or the government, the 'get out of jail free' card becomes toilet paper and the guy's head goes to the block as the scapegoat.

    May sound like bullshit, but as I've seen this shit first hand, it's not a pleasant experience.

    It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.

    Just food for thought.

    1. Re:Goverment + Hackers = Scapegoat by Raenex · · Score: 2

      Yes, it does sound like bullshit. It sounds like you've been listening to stories at hacker conventions, and adopting them as first-hand knowledge.

      I don't believe for a minute somebody's college info would be wiped out like that -- and why would it need to be? And the claim about being framed, well which is it, was this guy caught in a crime as you said, or was he framed? Since you claim the former, this latter bit is just making stuff up that fits your worldview.

      Sorry, but your story isn't credible. I might believe there's a grain of truth to it, but most of it sounds like fantastical musings.

  7. Re:almighty; rebates, bailouts coming, giving back by imric · · Score: 2

    Kick out the JAMS!

    --
    Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
  8. If you can't do the time by Nyder · · Score: 2

    don't do the crime.

    You got busted, you stoled people identities and ruined credit. ain't no one going to believe you, or be on your side. If you were smart, you would of kept records of your involvement with the government, so when the shit did hit the fan, like it was going to, then you got your ass covered. You didn't.

    Sleep with your back to the wall.

    Don't drop the soap.

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