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New Houses Killing Wi-Fi

Barence writes "Poor Wi-Fi or mobile reception is one of the banes of modern living — and modern building techniques could be making things worse. PC Pro has photos of a new-build being covered from floorboards to rafters in a tin-foil like material. The "highly reflective" material could have unpredictable results for radio signals, potentially bouncing mobile signals away from the house or preventing Wi-Fi signals from reaching the garden. And the new householder is likely to be none the wiser."

16 of 358 comments (clear)

  1. I personally love it by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since moving into my new home, I've noticed a significant reduction in secret CIA messages being injected into my brainwaves. Goodbye ugly tinfoil hat!

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  2. Non-issue really by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Insulation isn't usually put on interrior walls and I have no need to broadcast my wifi outside of my house. Those that do can position their WAP near a window.

    I'm also certain this is not an a recent issue. Almost all the insulation I've seen, apart from spray insulation, has some kind of foil-like backing.

    Maybe complainers should spend 2 minutes trying a different wifi channel instead of blaming their home.

    1. Re:Non-issue really by capnkr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A networking company I've done contract work for has a small hotel client constructed with steel framing instead of wood. Only 2 floors, 8 rooms per side/floor, front and back, but WiFi is a nightmare. There are *5* AP's in the building; one central, 2 each in the attic space either side of the central router, & one AP even has to have a yagi on it to reach into the bottom, corner room with signal strength sufficient to keep hotel guests from complaining. After working there 3 times in the past 2 years resolving issues, I think that steel construction is more of a concern than a radiant barrier layer on the insulation of an exterior wall...

      --
      "...there are some things that can beat smartness and foresight. Awkwardness and stupidity can." ~ Mark Twain
    2. Re:Non-issue really by gatkinso · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most interior walls are insulated just not with the wrap.

      If this stuff is RF reflective you can get all kinds of weird multipath issues, signal bouncing round.

      However one good thing is that it would help keep your signal IN your house, which is great for security.

      Double edged sword.

      Who browses the web in their garden? I go out there to unplug!

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    3. Re:Non-issue really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yea, you might. The article has no evidence, conducted no tests, and received no information from the manufacturer or really anyone else. They saw something that looked like tinfoil on an unfinished house, and then wrote a completely speculative article claiming that it will affect wireless waves. My parents house is covered in a material that looks exactly the same (no idea if it actually is the same). I can sit by the pool 20 yards from the house and easily get a strong signal to the wireless router in the kitchen. Maybe this new stuff is different and maybe it causes a problem, but it's flat out irresponsible to write an article claiming that it's a problem without a shred of evidence.

    4. Re:Non-issue really by BKX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wouldn't say it's a non-issue, but it's certainly not a new issue. A lot of houses use insulation or soundboard (which is metal coated, like in the picture in TFA) in bedrooms, to deaden sounds (who wants their kids to hear sex noises?); even older houses have it. In fact, my brother and I both put insulating soundboard in our master bedrooms for noise reasons, and because the stuff was on sale for $2/sheet at our local Habitat for Humanity Re-Store. As these materials become more common, we'll be seeing them and their problems in more and more new houses and in more and more retrofits and remodels.

      And another annoyance, in many older homes, such as my father's and my old college dorm building, is the use of "Stucco of Death". That stuff is aw[esome|full]. It will cause severe roadrash when you're drunk and fall into it, much to your detriment and friends' laughter. And the chicken wire that is used as a backing for the stucco is a very good Faraday cage. It's nearly impossible to get signal for any cell phone in my dad's house even though you get full bars outside and at open windows/doors, and no one can get his wifi signal outside, even though he has four APs throughout his house.

    5. Re:Non-issue really by tripleevenfall · · Score: 3, Insightful

      More over, this article contains no fact or anything close to it about whether this material affects transmission at all. It was simply a blogger walking past a house being built and saying "hmm", then googling. The material is said to have "reflectivity", but of what? It never says it's constructed of metal or a problem material, the blogger just describes it as "foil-like". What if it means heat reflectivity? What effect exactly has been studied in materials that appear to the eye to be "foil like"? This is just poppycock on the level of "Well I don't see how the towers could have fell down... gubment musta put nukes in the basement!"

    6. Re:Non-issue really by RingDev · · Score: 3, Interesting

      From my time working in the cell phone industry, I'd say "fooie!" to this being a problem at all. Atleast with cell towers, metal objects created almost no interfierance. Water was the devil. A huge chunk of metal in from of an antena had only a tiny impact, but fill that chunk of metal with water, say like a water tower, and it's like a giant black hole for radio signals. We also had issues with small lakes bouncing signals like crazy. You could be driving around a lake, have a tower 100 feet away from you, and another 12 miles away across the lake, and we'd have to put them on no-handoff lists, because a little bit of waves in the water can give the CC the impression that you are getting a better signal from across the lake.

      A think layer of tin on the back of your insulation, that has been being used for decades, isn't going to cause any issue that hasn't already been dealt with.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    7. Re:Non-issue really by agentgonzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I just heard this lunchtime that when they installed the new radar equipment on the top of Portsdown hill (Just outside Portsmouth - if you live close, the big blue buildings with the radar on Portsdown hill) they attached the motors only and had it turning for 2-3 weeks before any radar emitters were turned on. They got umpteen complaints from local residents during that period that the 'new radars' were interfering with their TV and causing 'bad reception'. All these phone numbers got logged as time-wasters for subsequent public complaints!

  3. ...advantages outweigh the problems by SpiralSpirit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it reflects huge amounts of radiant energy transfer from your envelope materials away from the interior of your home, making it that much more efficient to cool, and during winter it helps keep the heat inside the house. The wifi 'issue' just doesn't seem to be that much of an issue when you're talking about one of the core efficiencies in your house, and one of the biggest loads on the nation's energy usage.

  4. Phones? by identity0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Uh, Wifi? I'd think the cell phones (I assume that's what OP means by 'mobiles') are the important one...

    Plenty of people including myself only have a cell phone these days.

    My apartment's fine, but I have school in a very concrete-and-steel building that has very poor phone reception, which ends up draining my battery in no time. They do have good wifi because of a lot of APs, though. Remember, you can add more APs for wifi, but not for phones.

  5. Content free article by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow, talk about content free.

    That article had even less content than the guy who was pushing his blog posts awhile back.

    Your insulation 'might' be blocking wifi &/or 3g. But we don't know, we didn't bother to do any actual research.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
  6. i'd rather buy 2-3 more wifi bases by circletimessquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

    than spend $500 more in heating costs every year

    i for one welcome our new tin foil energy saving house overlords

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  7. Re:Grounded? by macraig · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The material is being used for its additive insulation value, PERIOD. It is not a moisture barrier, nor is it there to block "sheetrock mites". WTF? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SHEETROCK MITES.

    Good grief. The original unsubstantiated hysteria in TFA was bad enough; don't heap more FUD on the pile.

  8. Re:Really reaching here by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Only because you chose to not fix that problem.

    $1500 to have the house insulation upgraded.
    $6800 to have the AC and furnace changed over to a SEER 18 and a 98% efficient setup.
    $6500 to have new double pane windows installed
    $1100 to have the house checked for air leaks and those fixed with caulking.

    My winter heating bill IN January when it was 6-10 degrees F outside most of the time in michigan up where we get real snow was $80.00, December was less and Febuary was less.

    and you can do all of that in stages. the furnace and AC I got $1500.00 off my taxes because I bought them, that paid for the insulation. The windows we did over the course of a year one window at a time. I had a carpenter show me the first two times, I did the rest except for the big 8'X12' picture windows in the front room.

    Stopping restaurants for 2 years paid for the windows, insulation and air leak check and repair. The furnace and AC were paid for by not buying a new car this year, suffering with a 42" 720p plasma, and torturing my family by not going to Florida for a 1 week vacation but staying home. I know I should be turned in for torturing my family.

    Most people live in old houses with crap insulation and crap windows that have a 600 year old furnace in the basement that are never maintained properly. Your home is in disrepair, fix it and your heat and AC bills drop like a rock.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  9. Its insulation, and not new by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its just insulation. It goes on exterior walls to help form a heat boundary. Its not even a little bit new, the observer is just a really shitty observer and never noticed it being put into every building thats been built in the last 40 or so years at least. Example, my cheap little home built in 1977 has it.

    It doesn't go on interior walls, you don't generally insulate interior walls, as the air flow through open doors in your home and the fact that your duct system intentionally moves air into those rooms would defeat the point entirely.

    Some people do choose to insulate their interior walls for sound dampening, but not with foil backed insulation, they use cheaper insulation without it or specific insulation for sound, which is what we did when remodeling our living room to prevent sound from the TV/stereo from bothering people sleeping in other rooms.

    It won't effect your Wifi signal as its on the external walls only and no one would use it on interior walls (even if they wanted to insulate) because its more expensive and just a waste of money in those locations.

    If you can't get a signal between the first floor and second floor of your home it has almost nothing to do with insulation and the fact that the antennas used on wifi routers are designed to radiate horizontally from the antenna (perpendicular to its orientation). It would be, in almost every case, a complete waste of RF energy to broadcast a signal upwards from a WAP when for most cases there will be no one above it or below it that its supposed to get too.

    Finally ... it has VERY LITTLE EFFECT on the signal. My home is completely wrapped in it, walls and attic, and we sit on a slab, yet I still have no problem picking up and connecting to any wifi access point within 2 houses of me (and we aren't talking about town homes 10 feet from each other, at least 100-150 feet between homes), though its not like I'm getting full speed out of 802.11g with it, though my workshop, which is about 75 feet from my home will consistently get 10mb out of it, and it is insulated with brand new (built 3 years ago) foil backed insulation as well.

    Does it effect the signal, sure, everything does. Does it effect it enough to care about it over the massive energy savings for heating and cooling? No, not even a little.

    The home owner is likely to be none the wiser about the size of the wiring in his home either, and wether its really designed to be used like many of us where we have several machines in one room functioning as servers/routers/firewalls for our home networks drawing way more power than the home was designed to deliver to a single outlet. As a general rule, if you don't know what that shiny material is, there are far more important things in your home that you should learn about first if your worried about how your technology is going to be effected. Wiring of the home would be top on my list. Clean power is far more of a concern than insulation. Nothing worse than wiring thats too small for the job causing your power supplies or UPSes to continually be fighting surges and spikes due to turning off and on other equipment. Older homes with shared runs using 14 gauge wire to power multiple outlets are far more damaging and problematic than the insulation, they are also considerably more dangerous in a modern world where 10 amps simply isn't enough power for some home appliances at startup (vacuum cleaner, microwave, big plasma TVs). You really want 12 gauge as a minimum, with individual runs from the breaker box to EACH outlet, 10 gauge if you can afford it is a much better choice and far safer. Considering how little it effects the cost of a new build, you'd be an idiot if you were given the option and didn't take it.

    --
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