Intel Confirms That Android 3.0 Is Coming To x86 Tablets

timothy writes "Considering that x86 and ARM have been playing leapfrog in at least their future *promised* efficiencies, and that there are a ton of x86 tablets in the works, it's good to see cross-platform OS choices. The most popular Linux distro (Ubuntu) as well as several other conventional Linux options, Windows (even if so far confined to tech demos), and Android — interesting mix."

Comments

What about Meego?

[Anonymous Coward]

Meego is really dead, then.

Re:What about Meego?

[Microlith]

To head off the stupidity before it infects Slashdot, no.

Intel sells processors. Any OS that will run on their processors is OK by their standards.

Of course, contributing to Android is to undermine open source as a whole, seeing as how they continue to hide the Honeycomb source but deliver it to Intel. If you truly appreciate open source and want it to succeed in the mobile space, you should support and push for MeeGo (and stop buying shit from companies like Motorola.)

Re:What about Meego?

[Anonymous Coward]

Intel still holds a full ARM license. They sold the XScale to Marvell, but retained a license. Why couldn't they build ARM again?

Re:What about Meego?

[Microlith]

I think you mean, an OS developed under the banner of the Linux Foundation with support from SuSE and Intel that can't be arbitrarily taken and held closed on a whim. Nokia is mostly peripheral, though they were decent up until the point that MS "bought" them.

Please, make stupid statements elsewhere.

Re:What about Meego?

[Kjella]

You mean like every single phone manufacturer in the world? Intel doesn't even have horse in the race below the tablet level, ARM is pretty much the only game in town for ultra mobile deceives like phones and PDAs.

Yes, pretty much. It's no secret that Intel wants to get into ARMs market, having Android run on x86 is a start. Or at least make sure the battle lines are as far towards ultra mobile as they can. I imagine they're looking at a reverse iPhone -> iPad, first get their CPU in tablets then bring out a smartphone version.

I know ARM has and probably ever will have an advantage in the ultra-low power dumb phone game. But "entertainment" phones have a much higher power budget when playing, it's not certain ARM will be equally superior there. Or if they are, it won't be for Intel's lack of trying...

Re:What about Meego?

[Microlith]

Intel still builds ARM processors. Their entire line of "IO Processors" are basically dual-core ARM chips used for RAID cards. Adaptec and Highpoint both use these chips, for example.

Re:What about Meego?

[icebike]

Of course, contributing to Android is to undermine open source as a whole, seeing as how they continue to hide the Honeycomb source but deliver it to Intel. If you truly appreciate open source and want it to succeed in the mobile space, you should support and push for MeeGo (and stop buying shit from companies like Motorola.)

Really? http://www.androidcentral.com/gpl-portions-honeycomb-entered-aosp

Re:What about Meego?

[erroneus]

That is a short-sighted perspective. There are some "real world" considerations to be think through.

Open Source, the way we know and love it today, is filled with projects that struggle with direction. GNOME, KDE and other extremely well known projects suffer from having too many people in charge. Meanwhile, commercial projects have the advantage of having stronger direction which is great from a perspective of getting a project planned, built and "completed."

(I know, I will catch hell even for talking about this but go ahead... say what you're gonna say.)

Google is attempting to keep the project as open as it can while still maintaining its direction. As has been said, Honeycomb was designed for a higher resolution display and offers functionality intended for a specific set of capabilities. So in addition to being an OS, it is also an "experience" that needs to be consistent and reliable. It WILL be released. Of that I am certain, but I believe Google is trying to maintain a strong direction element in the project so that this open source project will have the same advantages as Windows and Mac OS X.

And keep in mind that this tablet computing is a new format of computing. It is one in which Microsoft cannot successfully participate at this time. Therefore, this time is crucial for the development of this OS platform and for the tablet market in general. If ever there was a way to take Microsoft down, it is through a market in which they cannot compete and interfere. They can't do tablets and they can't do phones (tiny tablets).

I think Google is doing the right thing at the moment. But I guess time will tell.

Re:What about Meego?

[0123456]

In fact it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Linux/BSD/et al just isn't suitable for phones.

Doesn't the iPhone run on a modified BSD kernel? If so, it would seem odd that pretty much every smart phone runs on an operating system that isn't suitable for phones.

Re:What about Meego?

[Microlith]

Open Source, the way we know and love it today, is filled with projects that struggle with direction. GNOME, KDE and other extremely well known projects suffer from having too many people in charge. Meanwhile, commercial projects have the advantage of having stronger direction which is great from a perspective of getting a project planned, built and "completed."

Which is beside the point, as the kernel itself has a small number of people that decide which way things go, but is wildly successful at achieving goals laid out despite having thousands of developers. It's also completely open.

Google is attempting to keep the project as open as it can while still maintaining its direction.

No, they're keeping it open in such a fashion that they can absolutely control which way it goes while giving an advantage only to the device makers that have partnered with them, while also breaking ties (not that they had any, since it was originally a closed-source project) with everything else in the open source community.

So in addition to being an OS, it is also an "experience" that needs to be consistent and reliable.

Which is beside the point.

And keep in mind that this tablet computing is a new format of computing.

No it isn't. That statement is a lie being fed to justify lockdown and DRM. It's a computer with no keyboard and only a touchscreen, the only new thing is developers being forced to think out their UIs better.

But none of this has anything to do with how completely divorced from the rest of the open source world Android is.

Re:What about Meego?

[Microlith]

Don't know about you but no one sane wants changes optimized for always-off cellphone usage in their server distribution.

What kind of ignorant comment is this? Can you say why? I'd be shocked if you can.

In fact it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Linux/BSD/et al just isn't suitable for phones.

Point blank: bullshit.

Google only chose Linux because they have no experience writing operating systems; that and they always settle for inferior solutions when it means shipping a product earlier.

Actually, the company developing Android before Google bought them chose Linux for the same reason TiVO and many other vendors do: opportunistic leeching on the community, while none of their changes ever make it back into the core.

Re:What about Meego?

[Kjella]

I guess it comes down to can intel beat a dual core 2 Ghz ARM?

Yes, easily. Can they beat them in the same power budget? Will the ARM do as much per clock cycle as the Intel? Those are better questions. ARM has a lot to learn about high performance chips. Intel has a lot to learn about low power chips. I wouldn't be so quick to wager ARM can learn Intel's tricks faster than Intel can learn ARM's tricks.

The Atom wasn't targeting ARM, it was more about choking AMD by creating a very low cost, low power chip that'd steal a lot of the "value" market from AMD with battery life AMD couldn't match. In that I would argue it was a success and has been a thorn in AMDs side until the Brazos platform launched this year. It is of course a stepping stone on the way to competing with ARM, but it's hardly the best Intel can do.

Re:What about Meego?

[drinkypoo]

AMD has Athlon 64 processors on a power budget competitive with Atom, but they gave up on them. I'm typing this comment using a machine powered by one right now. The only operating system it supports properly is Vista. AMD never bothered to even contribute support for its power saving to Linux, and they don't make downloads for the processor or the chipset available, you have to get them through your OEM. And the only support files are for Vista. The machine has a pretty peppy ATI integrated GPU, which again, only works 100% with Vista. Works great in Windows 7 except suspend/resume only works once. Does not work reliably except in text-only mode under Linux, you get trashing from simple things like scrolling even with renderaccel disabled.

I have an Atom netbook too and this thing beats the living crap out of it in the performance category and gets similar battery life per wH if you run Vista. This actually has the "five hour" battery which was nominally true with Vista. I get about 2.5 hours with Linux running just an xterm, and about 3.5 in Windows 7 x64.

Re:What about Meego?

[Desler]

Actually, the company developing Android before Google bought them chose Linux for the same reason TiVO and many other vendors do: opportunistic leeching on the community, while none of their changes ever make it back into the core.

Then they shouldn't have released the code under a license that allowed people to do so. If you want people to be obligated to give back you should have written it as an additional clause in the license. Being butthurt after the fact and then trying to impose a whole bunch of unwritten rules on people on tends to make them either go away or just ignore you even more.

Re:What about Meego?

[Desler]

Honeycomb is just an example of how Google could arbitrarily close the source of their AND YOUR changes.

Outside of the Linux kernel (which they did release the code for) how many contributors who have actually had their changes incorporated into the other parts Android weren't part of the OHA or already partnered up with Google?

Re:What about Meego?

[IICV]

Open Source, the way we know and love it today, is filled with projects that struggle with direction. GNOME, KDE and other extremely well known projects suffer from having too many people in charge. Meanwhile, commercial projects have the advantage of having stronger direction which is great from a perspective of getting a project planned, built and "completed."

Really? Do you have any statistics on the ship rate of commercial projects vs open source projects?

Because even though it is readily apparent that open source projects are abandoned quite frequently, I would wager that commercial projects are abandoned at comparable rates, the only difference being that the wreckage of commercial products doesn't litter the Internet, unlike closed source projects.

It's like the old question, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody's around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a commercial project fails and nobody ever knows about it, does it still fail? If an open source project fails and remains on Freshmeat or Sourceforge for years to come, does it still fail?

Re:What about Meego?

[hairyfeet]

Because like it or not Apple is setting the pace and their whole mantra is form over function, ala the iSliver batteries and the ultra thin designs like Air?

Just like you I would prefer a lower powered device that got insane battery life, but nobody listens nor cares about us. It is pretty obvious just looking at what is coming down the pipe the future is thin thin thinner, which means batteries so damned small you'd be lucky to get two hours out of the things.

Now if the only goal is how thin can you go, while cranking out the bling bling? AMD and Intel will have NO problems in that dept, as I said the new sub 20w Bobcats and BDs have that in the bag. Intel has shown with the Air that they too can go ultra thin, and sadly that is what the future is like it or not. It also helps the OEMs as it makes everything proprietary as hell which means their devices can be "designed for the dump" thus giving them great turnover while making it so support life on a device gets smaller and smaller. Hell most phones are lucky to get even a single update anymore, in the future they will just tell you to shitcan and get a new one.

So while I wish you were right friend, I truly do, I just ain't seeing it. What I AM seeing is device after device trying to top Apple in the "thin and sexy" dept, which means shit battery life, no ability to fix or upgrade squat, and design for the dump. Is it stupid and wasteful? Yes but as you said you take what you can get, and marketing has seen Apple's numbers and frankly don't give a shit about you or I.

Re:What about Meego?

[exomondo]

Honeycomb is just an example of how Google could arbitrarily close the source of their AND YOUR changes.

No they can't, your changes are still open. It's just that derivative works can be closed - which is obvious given they used a permissive Open Source license - that does NOT change the license on the code you submitted in the slightest.

Re:What about Meego?

[exomondo]

Unfortunately for Intel, they will bolt their crappy GPU to it, whereas ARM can weld much better GPU's with their CPU and totally kick Intel's ass.

You mean their GMA graphics? Like the ones that use the Power VR? The same Power VR architecture that is used in many ARM devices including the ipad and ipad2?

Re:Out of Order Execution

[Richard Dick Head]

OOO requires a huge silicon footprint, and it is tricky to avoid increased power consumption. Not exactly an embedded-friendly feature.

Intel

[BasilBrush]

Easy to see why Intel thinks it's worth using X86 for Android devices. Hard to see why anyone else would think it's a good idea - except perhaps AMD.

Re:Intel

[CastrTroy]

Might be nice to be able to boot into android on a standard laptop, or just run it in a VM (not an emulator). I would like to be able to use android, without having to buy a dedicated device.

Re:Intel

[Tom9729]

You can do this now, albeit with Android 2.2.

Atom vs. ARM

[darjen]

I have an ARM based tablet running Android 2.3. Why would I want to use Android on x86? Is it really that much faster?

Re:Atom vs. ARM

[jcombel]

the point isn't that you can use android on x86 (chips will always leapfrog eachother season to season on performance capabilities)
 
the point is that once android does support x86, theoretically there could be more tablet homogenization - a company could release the same model running both android and, say, windows, or you could purchase one and install your favorite linux distro, customized to suit the tablet

Re:Atom vs. ARM

[Locutus]

and the point ends up enabling Microsoft to come in and pay vendors to put Windows on the device at the expense and exclusion of the other OS's. ARM means you'll have vendors adapting and competing while x86 means you get Microsoft's vision of the world and you only get Windows unless you are creative enough to install another OS yourself. We know most of the world does not install their own OS and couldn't if their lives depended on it.

We are already seeing Intel paying vendors to push out x86 devices so they'll also be taking Microsoft's funny money because on x86 they can throw Windows while on ARM they can not. Consumers lose because of the lack of choice and they'll lose because the x86 and Windows solutions will not have the staying power in the portable device segment because of the bloat. IMO

LoB

and how will this work

[peragrin]

Adobe already requires each phone manufacture to send their phones to adobe to make sure flash might work on the platform, with a whole other processor to support for the same OS adobe will never be able to keep up.

Re:and how will this work

[geek]

Who cares? If Adobe can't keep up (entirely their own problem) then they will fade away.

Re:and how will this work

[gig]

Already faded.

Intel as main MeeGo supporter

[zdzichu]

So it means that MeeGo is even more dead? Intel was last standing supporter if it, and now Intel is interested in different, competing OS. Sad.

What benefit of out-of-order?

[tepples]

What is the benefit of out-of-order if your binaries were compiled with the optimizer set to Atom? In that case, the compiler will already have reordered the instructions to fit Atom's microarchitecture. And what is the benefit of out-of-order compared to simultaneous multithreading?

Re:What benefit of out-of-order?

[AcidPenguin9873]

In that case, the compiler will already have reordered the instructions to fit Atom's microarchitecture.

Sort of. There's not much a compiler can do when you have a last-level (L2, L3) cache miss, which takes hundreds of clocks to service. Even an L1 miss hurts somewhat. OOO processors can execute other, independent instructions for which it has data available in registers or in the L1, and which are in the processor's OOO execution window. In-order processors can't do much. Atom does have some limited ability to hide cache miss latency via some bypassing around L1 misses, but not as much as true OOO.

And what is the benefit of out-of-order compared to simultaneous multithreading [wikipedia.org]?

SMT gets you throughput on multiple threads, for a cheaper area/power budget than just stamping another core down on the die. Obviously it's not as good as another real core, but for some applications that lightly load the processor, for example memory-bound or I/O-bound apps, it is pretty good. It does nothing for single-thread performance however; it can even hurt it single-thread IPC, in fact.

How do I make SVG cartoons?

[tepples]

So you claim that Adobe products have "Already faded", and I presume this means in favor of HTML5 technologies such as SVG. So what graphical authoring tool should one use to create SVG+JS animated cartoons with synchronized audio, like those found at sites like Albino Blacksheep, Homestar Runner, and Newgrounds?