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Why Does the US Cling To Imperial Measurements?

PhunkySchtuff writes "As one of only three countries on Earth that hasn't converted to a metric system of units and measurements, there is a huge amount of resistance within the US to change the status quo. Whilst the cost of switching would be huge, there is also a massive hidden cost in not switching when dealing with the rest of the world (except for Liberia & Burma, the only other two countries that don't use the metric system) With one of the largest organisations in the US, the military, using metric units extensively, why does the general public in the US still cling to their customary system of units?"

55 of 2,288 comments (clear)

  1. Not so bad to have different systems. by suso · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think its alright to have a few different systems in the world. Sure, there is an attractiveness to consolidation. But what are we going to do when we encounter aliens? Demand that they switch to the metric system? I'm actually serious. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow or even in the next decade or century, but eventually it will. There is a lot to be said for having a tolerance for the differences among cultures and retaining those differences.

    1. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by log0n · · Score: 3, Funny

      I disagree.

    2. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well since you can ask ridiculous hypothetical questions: what happens if the aliens use metric?

    3. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by mywhitewolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its much more intuitive for an advanced civilization to have a base(x) counting system with measurement standards being built of the counting system. so aliens are more likely to understand a metric system better than imperial. Aliens should be able to understand the true nature of mathematics and use that to classify sizes, not the average size of a foot.

      However i disagree with America conforming "just because". we haven't even moved to a base 10 timing metric yet, who are we to judge?

    4. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by jbengt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is, even if they are both based on arbitrary fundamental measures, SI units are self-consistent, while imperial measurements are not. So a lot of arbitrary constants are required in the US that are not needed elsewhere.

    5. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are missing the point. The main argument for the metric system is NOT because it is standard, regardless of what TFA says. The reason we should switch to the metric system is the same that the rest of the world has already -- it simply makes a whole lot more sense. Everything is base 10, and if you know what the basic unit of measurement is you can very easily figure out how to go between units simply by moving a decimal place. Imperial measures, on the other hand, are totally psychotic. 12 inches to a foot, 3 feet to a yard, 5,280 feet to a mile. It is the type of nonsense that we would expect to see in Dr. Seuss story, not it real life.

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    6. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes some of those rules of thumb break, but you end up with different and new rules of thumb instead. For instance, 100km/h is a pretty standard speed on many roads (don't be daft, they wouldn't convert 60 mph to 96 km/h ... they'd make it 100). So the distance to your destination in 100s of km is the number of hours until you get there (e.g. 300km = ~3 hours, 425 km = ~4 hr, 15 min). I personally use that rule of thumb all the time when driving.

      Also wouldn't approximately 1 foot be approximately 30 cm (why convert exactly to 30.5 if you're only talking 'approximately' in the first place?) 30 cm divides cleanly by 15, 10, 6, 5, 3 and 2. Kinda nice actually.

    7. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by mug+funky · · Score: 3, Interesting

      so that's your argument? "what would the aliens think?"

      SI is a planetary standard. the only (ONLY) arbitrary measure in it is the actual length of the metre, because at some point someone had to choose something.

      everything else relates to that one measurement, and mass measurements relate back via water at 4 degrees celcius (water is most dense at this point). 1Kg of water is equal to 1 litre in volume, which fits into a cube 10cm to a side.

      or if you prefer, 1 cubic metre of water at 4 degrees weighs exactly one metric tonne.

      now give me the above in ounces, furlongs, feet, and pints and we can discuss what the aliens would think.

    8. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by seyyah · · Score: 4, Funny

      Miles make for easy measurement of rate-of-motion and gallons make for easy measurement of fuel usage when traveling. Going the average street-value 30mph? Two minutes per mile to destination. Going the average highway 60mph? One minute per mile to your destination off-ramp.

      Thanks! I tried to do an example where I was going 60km/h but I couldn't figure out how many minutes to my destination. Then I did it in mph and it was so much easier! Thanks dude. Imperial is better.

      By contrast, meters/centimeters make for a pain in the ass to divide by anything but multiples of 5 or 10, not to mention that common everyday occurrences that are approximately "one foot" long are then 30.5 centimeters, a measurement that divides cleanly by precisely Jack and Shit.

      Yeah, I've got tons of stuff which all measures exactly 1 foot but nothing that measures 30cm long. Thanks for pointing out how much better Imperial is because stuff is usually 1 foot long and not 0.5cm shorter. You rock... just like Imperial units!

    9. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Metric is a heck of a lot easier to explain than imperial.

      Lets see, 2.5 cm per inch, 12 inches per foot, 5 foot per fathom, but its also 5280 feet per mile...and its 3 feet to a yard, which is kind of like a meter, but not quite...

      As opposed to simple powers of 10 for metric. If we could today snap our fingers and have everything switched over, with no conversion costs, it would be a no brainer.

    10. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 5, Funny

      You rock... just like Imperial units!

      It's a common misconception that Americans use Imperial units. Actually, they measure short distances in car lengths and long distances in football fields.

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    11. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, there are some.

      Sometimes it's a matter of scale -- for instance, units based on electron-volts are useful when you want to talk about the energy in a single photon or electron, or things on that scale, while the Joule is a much more accessible unit when you're at the scale where metric units make sense -- can't get much simpler than a kilogram meter per second. It's not just a matter of a nano-Joule vs a Joule -- it's a matter of the electron-Volt being based on how elementary particles actually behave, while the Joule is based on fairly arbitrary (but convenient) metric units.

      Sometimes it's a matter of who is using the unit, and what they're using it for. I often talk shit about the Kilowatt Hour -- Watts are Joules per second (energy per time) and the Kilowatt Hour is Kilowatts per Hour (power per time, where power is energy per time) -- so you end up back at energy. The Kilowatt hour is basically a really clumsy multiple of the Joule -- or at least, it's really clumsy if you're dealing with Joules, which would imply you're dealing with physics and engineering. The fact that electrical appliances are rated in watts means that a kilowatt hour is still quite convenient if you want to know, say, how much it's going to cost to run a box with a 250-watt power supply 24/7, or a 700-watt, 70-inch HDTV for a few hours a day, or how long it'll take for a CFL to pay for itself, and so on.

      Degrees Celsius vs Kelvin. Kelvin is a lot more useful if you need to do actual calculations -- again, physics/engineering -- but the difference between 273 kelvin and 313 kelvin doesn't really mean as much as the difference between 0 degrees Celsius and 40 degrees Celsius.

      Or angle measures -- degrees are much easier for humans to work with than radians when just trying to figure out the angle, but radians are a much more natural angle to do any sort of calculations in, especially since they technically aren't even units. You can do crazy things like take that 7200 RPMs your hard disk spins at, convert it to radians/second, and multiply it by the radius of your hard disk in whatever units you want, and you'll get the linear velocity of the edge of that disk in those same units.

      That is, 45 degrees is a lot easier for humans to learn than pi/4 radians, but if you know you've got pi/4 radians, that's a lot easier to apply to almost anything.

      I could go on, and that's just off the top of my head, from what is theoretically a freshman physics course.

      None of this, by the way, is a justification for imperial measurements. Those are just retarded. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to learn Celsius for temperature -- I know what 40 degrees Fahrenheit feels like, but I have no idea (until I convert it) what 5 degrees Celsius feels like. Still, I'd be the first to suggest any shift towards better units -- maybe while we're at it, we can fix the whole minute/hour/day weirdness and start dividing the day by powers of 10 instead.

      --
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    12. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Stoutlimb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking from experience, as someone forced to use both measurement systems for length and area in the construction and design industry, I prefer imperial for some work. And I don't live in the USA. Why?

      The fractional measurement system with a base-12 number system is the reason. For design purposes. Specifically division, which is common. It's frustrating to divide things and get lengths with fractional or repeating decimals. It clutters up the design space with unnecessarily large numbers, sometimes for small measurements. Often space is precious on blue prints on documents, and this actually makes a big difference.

      For example, suppose I have a wall, that I need to break up to place things like doors, windows, or interior partitions. With the metric system, I can only divide by either 2, 5, or 10 and reasonably expect to get nice round numbers for my measurements. With the imperial system, with being able to revert to feet and inches, it's possible to divide by 2, 3, 4, 6, or 12, and reasonably expect a simple number in return. I'm especially fond of being able to divide by 3 and 4, which the metric system doesn't do very easily compared to the imperial.

      Despite these benefits which I enjoy, I would still sacrifice the imperial system for the metric. In the big picture, it still makes more sense and is better overall. Personally I do believe it's the strong construction industry in big part that clings to the imperial system for their own legitimate reasons.

    13. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by drfreak · · Score: 3, Funny

      WTF? You Porsche drivers just need to shut the fu*k up!

    14. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hello,

          Using minute/hour/day thing isn't so irrational, really. 60 seconds per minute and 60 minutes per hour, 60 is a very nice number.
          1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 30 all divide into it without fractions.

          For 10, you have 1, 2, 5, and that's it.

          24 is a pretty nice number for dividing too, you have
      1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12.

      --PM

    15. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by vell0cet · · Score: 5, Funny

      Damn! Mile is a foreign language?! We should change it to 1776 yards in a mile and change the name to a "Freedom"!

    16. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's crap - why is the fractional representation inclined towards arbitrary amounts at each order of magnitude? why are there 12 inches to a foot, but 3 feet to a yard, and 1760 yards to a mile?

      I think you are picking and choosing your units. There are 12 inches to a foot, and 12 feet to a rod.... if you want consistency. Going smaller there are 12 points to a pica and 6 picas to the inch (used in typography). Units like a mile come from the Romans, so don't blame a lack of consistency.

      For liquids, there are 2 ounces to a shot, 2 shots to a gill, 2 gills to a cup, 2 cups to a pint, 2 pints to a quart, 2 quarts to a jack (yes, it exists, but is usually called a half gallon), 2 jacks to a gallon. I'd call that pretty consistent too, although it is a binary system and not decimal. That takes getting used to, but explains a whole lot. There is even a nursery rhyme about Jack and Gill fetching a pail of water, explaining how some English king got in trouble with parliament and those units stopped being used in common practice.

      An advantage of the imperial system is that you can take 12 units and divide them in half, into thirds, into fourths, and sixths. With 10 units, all you can do is to divide them in half or into fifths (or tenths). This concept was known to the Babylonians, but subsequently forgotten by the French who loved the decimal system so much more. BTW, this is why a clock is divided into 60 seconds and minutes, because 60 can be divided by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30. If you are having to chop something up into smaller pieces, it really helps to use a numerical base other than 10 for that division. For a quick & dirty system, base 12 really is very useful, hence why things are often sold by the dozen for the same reason.

    17. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by jd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are self-consistant and use a fixed base. Imperial units do not use a fixed base. They're expressed in decimal, sure, but fractions of an inch are measured in fractional powers of 2 (exceptr for mils, which are measured in thousandths), inches are measured in base 12, nails are measured in base 16, hands are measured in base 4, palms are measured in base 3, feet are measured in base 3, yards are measured in base 22, chains are measured in base 10, furlongs are measured in base 8, miles are measured in base 3.

      Imperial units are "natural" measures - you will find that most (if not all) natural phenomena will work out to an exact integer number of some measure or other. This made them great when making exact measuring devices was extremely difficult. Far and away easier to use a measuring device that occurs all around you. If you're sneaky, you can even use Imperial Units from different countries. (A foot in Belgium is not the same distance as a foot in America.)

      Some of the units I've given above are now only used in specialist cases. Since people tend to go from yards directly to miles, you now have yards measured in base 1760. (This would obviously be useless if you were using a tally sheet of any kind, 22s, 10s and 8s are far more practical and far more easily counted manually.)

      However, none of these units are remotely useful EXCEPT when measuring natural phenomena (which never happen in convenient SI units). Trying to program a computer in eleven different base systems would be horrible. Trying to get it bug-free would be impossible. Trying to get anything remotely intelligent to display would be ludicrous. Sure, computers can convert between Imperial and SI and then do all the SI internally. And this would be useful how? You're adding extra layers of complexity on the human end (which is naive at best) and adding extra layers of complexity into the code (which is downright stupid and irresponsible).

      I was one of the few generations in England to be taught both Imperial AND Metric systems in school, simultaneously. This was in the transition period in the early 70s (before half the current Slashdot readership was born). I also had to learn both the decimal and pre-decimal currencies. Trust me, modern English schoolkids are missing NOTHING by being wholly metric. Well, so long as they understand the history as well. The history is valuable because without it you cannot understand historic descriptions accurately. The numerical values would make no rational sense without the context in which the units were created.

      Of course, things not making sense has never stopped US schools or school boards in the past, hence the proliferation of creationist textbooks in science classes.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    18. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Paul+Jakma · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The UK and Ireland went metric sometime in the early 80s iirc (EU standardisation). All weights and measures used in at least consumer trading had to be given primarily in metric. Speed and distance on the road is one of the few places where imperial is still used in the UK. In Ireland, for quite a while, you had the interesting situation that speed limits were in mph while distances on sign-boards were in km (except for the very old black & white ones out in the country). Ireland finally fixed that inconsistency 6 or 7 ish years ago and changed speed limits over to km/h overnight (though, the odd black & white old signpost in miles still remain). When you drive in Ireland, you know you've crossed the border when the posted speed limits suddenly change by a large amount. ;)

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    19. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by Moryath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I tried decimal time.

      Decimal measurement makes things really cute and easy for the scientists.

      It also makes things a royal pain in the ass for humans, since the real world is analog. The watchface; separated into a 360 degree circle (ever noticed even the scientists can't bring themselves to decimalize the circle?), divides cleanly into 12 hours, that divide cleanly into 60 minutes, 60 seconds, etc. It all remains whole units. It's divisible easily and cleanly by 2,3,4,5,6,8... USEFUL.

      What the hell, the decimal trolls already modded a post I had up to 5 down to -1 once, so I'll continue and if they don't like it they can go fuck themselves.

      The basic problem with metric vs imperial is that they both spawn from two different environments.

      Metric spawned from scientists in a lab. It works great in a lab. Everything is very precise, very orderly, and while they're in the lab they don't have to give a crap about the real world. They need to divide something in half and it comes out with a .5 in it, then they need to cut it in thirds afterward? What the hell, they don't care about a few repeating decimals here or there, they're scientists.

      "Imperial" spawned from everyday people using the relatively standard things they had on hand to measure with. It even had the good sense to obsolete measurements when they became irrelevant (we don't measure by "rods" or the "hogshead" anymore).

      Want to know why we use tablespoons/teaspoons for cooking? Because it could be assumed that just about every household had at least one "Table Spoon" and "Tea Spoon" on hand already. No need to go out buying special measuring devices (get a dinnerware set from IKEA and compare the table and tea spoons in it to standard, you'll find they are close enough to handle rounding error). Need a 1/2 teaspoon or 1/4 teaspoon? Measure a full one on the chopping board, slice it with the back of your kitchen knife. This is how most home cooking operated.

      A standard cup? Guess what - a standard cup.

      Everyday devices for everyday measurement. No need to go buying special, laboratory-grade equipment specially tailored to exacting specifications just to make your fucking breakfast. No need to try to measure out the quantity of applesauce you're putting into your latkes in a graduated cylinder.

      I find it funny - every metric superiority troll running around here starts screaming "well we make it easy because then we just play with the units till they come out cleanly", making new "standards" that instantly obsolete old ones and make maintenance a royal pain in the ass and require new equipment or retooling of existing equipment. And the cost of buying/retooling everyone's equipment is not negligible.

      What's even funnier is that these metric superiority trolls will do a quick 180 (see, gasp, a non-metric unit again!) when it comes time for them to argue over whether customers are getting full value when marketing uses a Metric Gigabyte (1GB=1,000,000,000 bytes) instead of a "Real Gigabyte" (1Gibibyte=1,073,741,824 bytes) when stating the capacity of storage media.

    20. Re:Not so bad to have different systems. by markhb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you and the GP. In school in the '70s, I learned about the metric system / SI. PBS even had an entire series called "The Metric System"... I still remember part of the theme song. As time has passed and wholesale conversion didn't happen, I realized something: for everyday private life, SI has no clear advantages over the US customary system. There is nothing compelling about a kilometer or a meter that makes it a clear and necessary replacement for the mile or foot. The same goes for the kg vs. the pound (I know, that's comparing mass vs. weight, but if we don't need to allow for gravitational fluctuation then the difference is meaningless), or the liter vs.the quart. Yes, it's easier to convert from liquid measure to linear-cubed in SI, but you know what? Do you know why almost no one knows how many gallons are in a cubic foot? Because no one cares. It sounds nice on paper but for everyday life that's not a conversion people need to make. Yes, using the same system as the rest of the world makes commerce easier and I do believe that all Americans should at least have a passable understanding of SI and how its units compare to US customary. But in this instance the expense, disruption, and anti-convenience of a mass conversion at the personal level trumped the benefits to international commerce.

      --
      Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
  2. Because.... by H0D_G · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It'd smack too much of you giving in to the French.

    Seriously, it's really frustrating when watching American science documentaries and all of the units aren't SI units. Scientists should always, always use metric.

    --
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    1. Re:Because.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Real science is done non-dimensionally

    2. Re:Because.... by wvmarle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What is even worse, is scientific shows like Mythbusters use BOTH systems. Usually they use metric, usually it's F but sometimes it's C. Weighs usually pounds, but they also have used (kilo)grammes. Distance is usually inches and feet, but when bouncing a baseball they were measuring the bounce in cm - while other parts of the same experiment were using inches and feet.

      There is no consistency, and that alone can give rise to errors. It doesn't really matter whether one uses cm or inches, or C or F as long as it's consistent. Forget to write down the unit once, and it's guesswork that's left. Have a thermometer with both scales - oops which scale were we using again this time?

    3. Re:Because.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hi, American scientist here. We do use metric.

      When things are done for the media (documentaries, etc), they are translated into Imperial units, because the majority of the (American) audience would have no idea how big or small of things we were talking about when talking in some strange units they aren't familiar with.

  3. The US already adopted the Metric system by cob666 · · Score: 5, Informative
    I found this online somewhere:

    In 1988, Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act, which designates "the metric system of measurement as the preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce." Among many other things, the act requires federal agencies to use metric measurements in nearly all of their activities, although there are still exceptions allowing traditional units to be used in documents intended for consumers. The real purpose of the act was to improve the competitiveness of American industry in international markets by encouraging industries to design, produce, and sell products in metric units.

    --
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    1. Re:The US already adopted the Metric system by OpenYourEyes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what this means, in reality, is that if you're doing work for the Federal Government, you do all your work in Imperial Units, and then convert them to Metric. So you don't actually get "standard" metric sizes... you get "standard" Imperial sizes with metric units labeling them.

    2. Re:The US already adopted the Metric system by smellsofbikes · · Score: 3

      I found this online somewhere:

      In 1988, Congress passed the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act, which designates "the metric system of measurement as the preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce."

      Try 1893: the Mendenhall Order said that the United States English system of weights and measures was fundamentally based on the Metric System. We've officially been on the metric system for over a hundred years: we just use really, really stupid units.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  4. Change the name! by Thagg · · Score: 5, Informative

    Call them American units!

    I mean, we don't use Imperial gallons here anyway

    --
    I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
  5. Re:Easy answer by Cimexus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Australia fully converted in a relatively short space of time in the early 70s. Different areas of life were changed at different times, but they were changed very quickly (e.g. a particular date was set for road signs to be taken down and replaced across the country, a different date for weights and measures in supermarkets, etc). The younger generations don't even understand imperial measurements now (it's not like the half-converted situation that the UK finds itself in).

    Australia is almost exactly the same size as the lower 48 US States. So I don't think it's necessarily hard for big countries to do it. Having said that, there are some obviously differences between Australia and the US such as the smaller and generally more urban population, so it's not a perfect example. Still there's lessons there to be learnt, I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_Australia

  6. Don't know why - but I like it by ugen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I was born and raised in a country that is firmly and decidedly "metric". I finished school and college knowing nothing but metric system. So, you could say that metric would be my "natural choice".

    Then I moved to US. At first non-metric units were a PIA. Admittedly, conversions are not nearly as convenient - you can't just shuffle a decimal dot around.

    After a while, though - it really started to "grow on me". The first shift occurred when I started driving a lot - both in US and in Europe. For reasons, that are purely subjective, I began to feel like a mile (statutory or nautical, your pick) is a more "natural" unit of distance. Kilometer always fell short. In a way mile represented what I feel a "decent distance" should feel like.

    Then, as I took up a hobby (or a waste of money, depending on your take on it) that required significant amounts of engineering, machining and manual work - I started to feel the same way about other units. Inch is exactly what a "small but human scale" distance should be (it is unusually pretty close to what you'd get if you were to show a "very short distance" by making a semi-circle with your thumb and index fingers, like a slightly opened O), so did the foot, the ounce for "a small amount of weight" etc. I also began to appreciate division of inches into powers of two (rather than centimeters into powers of ten etc).

    In time, conversions became a non-issue. In fact, it probably helps keep my "doing arithmetic in my head" skills less rusty.

      I still occasionally use metrics as a way to do "thru conversions", in particular between volume and mass (because one deci-meter of water is one liter of water is approx 1 kg). I also use metrics where they are the only units - such as electricity, for example.

    But at this point, I would not voluntarily go back to metric system for anything that's related to weights and dimensions.

    YMMV. That said, perhaps there are other people who feel like me. If so - that's your answer as to why Imperial units are still here (and, hopefully, going to stay for a while)

    1. Re:Don't know why - but I like it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's complete and utter hogwash. You think imperial is "natural" simply because you are more used to it. Any non-American (except for a few Brits, Aussies and Kanuks) think metric units are more "natural".

      Now, there is no question that computing with metric units is way more natural. Here is an example: you need to put 12 equally-spaced fence posts along a particular length, say 13 feet 5 inches and 3/8. How far apart should the fence post be? You need to divide 12'5''3/8 by 11. Go ahead, I'm waiting..... still computing? OK the imperial answer is 1 foot, 2 inches and 2/3. Oh wait, you can't have 2/3! you can only have binary fractions! What's the closest
      binary fraction to to 2/3? Errr, 43/64?

      Here is the metric equivalent: the length is 409.9 cm. Divide that by 11 = 37.36 cm. Done.
      OK, you don't need that kind of accuracy for fence posts, but you need it for everything mechanical.

      Wanna hear something *really* screwy about the Imperial System?
      Looks at how bizantine the American way of measuring screws and taps is: http://lecun.org/blog/index.php?entry=entry080825-015412

          -- Prof Shadoko

  7. Arrogant Ignorance? by meerling · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I was taught metrics in 1st grade, that was back in the 70s, and it's so easy a 7 year old can master it.
    This imperial crap almost everyone else in the US uses is rather incomprehensible.
    Your foot is divided by 12 inches, which are divided by 16ths, yet it's 3 foot to the yard, and god only knows how many yards in a mile. Here's a fun trick to do, ask some of your friends or relatives how many yards are in a mile. How many of them will actually give you an answer, much less the right one. Bet more than half can't, at least without someone else how many feet are in the mile. And let's not forget the long delay as they try to divide by 3. Not very impressive is it.
    Now, ask some kid who knows metric how many meters are in a kilometer. How many centimeters are in a kilometer. Bet you that prepubescent child that know metric will give you an answer really fast, and be right every time. It's because metric is a concise system based on 10 that even an imbecile can understand it, and smart people make far fewer mistakes because it's a consistent system.

    You want to screw over the country when dealing with the rest of the world, keep using imperial.
    We've lost people and multi-million dollar machines because of imperial, is it really worth it?

  8. Re:Carpentry by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Funny

    I agree, much easier to cut a board in half than into 0.5 (seriously).

  9. We started a conversion to metric ... by perpenso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The US is a big country so it takes a while to change things.

    We started teaching the metric system to kids in elementary school in the 1970s.

    All the signs would need changing ...

    I recall a lot of the signs were changed, displaying both imperial and metric for a while, then a decade or so later they went back to just imperial. Also if we had only changed signs on the normal replacement cycle we would probably have been done by now.

    , all the measurements in laws ...

    Trivial effort is required to convert, far less than what is expended interpreting the law. Also note that in many contexts, units on packaging, imperial and metric are still side by side.

    , all the schools, ...

    Done in the 1970s.

    and much of the culture ...

    If we had stayed on course it would be over by now.

    The sig doesn't mention it but yes the calculator does metric. :-)

  10. Re:Ronald Reagan by LurkerXXX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yep. Just to give more background for the young-uns, I was a very young school kid in the 70's. We were told to learn the metric system and get used to it, because before we were out of high school, the country was going to be converted over entirely to the metric system.

    That proclamation from our teachers was after congress passed The Metric Conversion Act in 1975. They created the U.S. Metric Board to oversee the conversion.

    1979 - The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms required wine producers/importers to switch to metric.

    1980 - The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms required required distilled spirits producers/importers to switch to metric.

    1982 - Reagan disbands the Metric Board, and fires everyone associated with it.

    So we have Reagan to thank for our reliance on an outdated system of measurement. As well as the new trend for Republicans to deficit spend like mad, ballooning the National Debts as never before, and getting religious nut wings involved in politics like never before.

  11. Re:Easy answer by deapbluesea · · Score: 3, Informative

    I also understand that in US schools they're taught metric measurements as well as imperial measurements (however I'm sure the focus is vastly in favour of imperial units)

    Actually, all of my classes were in metric. They don't teach imperial in school. At least, not in Texas (anti Texas rants in 3, 2, 1.....)

    --
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
  12. Re:Good Question by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fractions are quite possibly the dumbest incarnation of math we humans could have ever invented; I could understand if it actually made things easier, but it does not.

    Fractional units come from back in the days when you couldn't buy a calibrated ruler at the corner store. If you don't have a ruler, the best you can do is take an object of known measure (say 1 yard of cloth) and divide it into equal parts (fold it into thirds to get three 1-foot segments). This is probably easiest to see with measures of volume. The English system goes by powers of 2. 1 gallon is 4 quarts (missing unit in between). 1 quart is 2 pints. 1 pint is 2 cups. 1 cup is 2 gills. Why powers of 2? If you don't have calibrated beakers, how do you divide a volume of liquid into even parts? You split it in half (by weight) over and over. So it makes sense for your units of measurement to coincide with dividing in half over and over.

    So back in the day when measuring was the hard part, fractions made sense. Today, measuring is the easy part, and calculating with the measurements afterward is the (relatively) hard part. So metric units (powers of 10) make more sense.

  13. Building Industry by digitect · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm an architect, and I'll tell you that the building industry is so entrenched in imperial measurements I haven't used my metric scale in five years. Every single product is based on imperial dimensions, meaning design, coordination, and calculation require the same.

    Some examples: joist spacing tables display span lengths for 16" and 24" on center spacings. These tables are everywhere and they've been around unchanged forever. All the plywood sub-flooring is in 48" x 96" sheets. Works great for either joist spacing and in either horizontal or vertical orientation. If you buy a house in the US, standard is an 8' ceiling, "up scale" is 9', exclusive is 10'. (Who would know the status of a 2600mm ceiling?!) Studs are already available and pre-cut to accomplish these heights. Drywall is sold in these lengths. Concrete and soil are measured in cubic yards, roofing by square, carpeting by yard, ceiling tiles in 24" squares, etc. The International Building Code (what most of us use) gives dimensions in Imperial dimensions, including sprinkler head spacing, floor loading requirements, floor-to-floor, allowable areas, etc. Think about it, every plumbing, gas, and sanitary drain system connecting your building to infrastructure is calculated in imperial from engineering tables more than fifty years old. Tape measures are all imperial as is surveying equipment. The entire commercial real estate market is in imperial, changing to metric would crush every agent and developer trying to calculate pro-forma for all real estate in the country. Lumber mills and woodworking equipment that has been around for years and that produce moldings, doors, boards, handrails, furniture, etc., are all imperial. Existing surveys, architectural drawings, engineering calculations, and every other kind of specification, calibration, documentation, regulation, etc. in the building industry is imperial, doing a simple renovation or addition (actually >50% of the building industry) would require the overhead of converting all existing information prior to proceeding.

    I've worked on several metric buildings. It takes about two days to get into the swing of it. From an architect's view, scaling and plotting drawings is much simpler than imperial. Not having to deal with foot-inches is easier, too. (Although everybody seems to disagree about whether to use m, cm, or mm. We have native metric users that can't even agree on that.) But it doesn't take long before somebody starts discussing "hard" vs. "soft" metric and wondering if buying 900 mm doors will cost 50% more than 36" doors, if a wheelchair can still fit through it, and where they might come from in the local market if they can even be found. About a day later the whole endeavor goes down the tube when one party in the process gets nervous. We usually switch to "soft" metric for a few weeks (designing in imperial but also stating metric on the drawings) and then abandon the entire metric effort in favor of imperial. The only way a project will stay in true hard metric is if it is being built overseas.

    We're going to have to go metric one system at a time. First was soda bottles. Then automobiles. Science is there, and a lot of SI units are becoming comfortable on food packaging. The building industry is going to have to do the same, I predict in places where highly manufactured components interface with imperial ones in a relatively unimportant way. (Think windows cut into a wall.) Commercially, roof membranes are specified in mm and many other components are manufactured in hard metric dimensions with proximal imperial values (like thicknesses of drywall and plywood). But things like bricks, lumber, and plumbing pipe may take a while.

    --
    There is no need to use a SlashDot sig for SEO...
    1. Re:Building Industry by jeffrey.endres · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The International Building Code (what most of us use)

      Is this the same sort of thing as your World Series baseball which is only valid for very small values of world? Worked in a sawmill here outside of the US and I'm pretty sure that you can get timber in metric sizes and the only tape measurements I saw were all metric.

    2. Re:Building Industry by tm2b · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Bucky Fuller wrote about this, in the context of how quickly humans adopt new technologies. The sequence you describe is exactly what he believed: in essence, the more frivolous a technology is to our live and safety, and the shorter the product cycle, the faster humans can adopt that technology. Thus, food - fast product cycle, beverages - fast cycle and purely luxury, we can change quickly over a matter of years. Automobiles have a medium life cycle and are of varying criticality to our lives (compare rural Texas with Manhattan or urban Chicqgo), so they will be a medium length of time tomadopt - decades, plus or minus. But housing? That's a very long product cycle and we have a very strong emotional connection to our shelter, so we are very conservative about how we build them. It'll take a century (let's say, from 1960-1980ish) to change.

      It was a very interesting discussion in his book, _Critical Path_, where he concluded that for certain kinds of inventions, the inventor wishing to help humanity should publish his housing inventions (the geodesic dome and the dymaxion house, in this case), perhaps work to promote them for some special purposes to get them into intellectual circulation (he worked to get them used by scientific and military organizations), and then move on to other topics - because without a specific adaptive pressure (eg, (my example) PEX to replace now-expensive copper plumbing) housing inventions would take more than a lifetime to go into general use.

      Bucky Fuller was a dozen kinds of awesome.

      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
  14. Re:Ronald Reagan by lennier · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now, of course, the US has trouble exporting to a world where nobody has Imperial-sized tools or fasteners.

    Not to mention your weird "Letter" size which is inexplicably the default in all your word processing programs when all the rest of the world uses A4.

    I don't think I've ever seen Letter paper in my life, but I just installed LibreOffice and whoops, Letter, and measurements in inches. Grrr.

    Don't worry, we don't think the less of you all in the States for it. Well, that's not actually true, we think it's kinda cute and sweet that you have your precious little antique measurement systems - aww, how retro! - but we figure eventually you'll grow out of it and become a proper country.

    Then we think about all the nuclear reactors and rockets you built using feet and inches and get night sweats.

    --
    You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  15. No! It is really, really bad. by formfeed · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It is really bad.

    But I admit it doesn't matter whether you call it centimeter or inch or measure the distance by the eyebrow length of the great communicator Ronald Reagan.
    Call it the freedom fighting anti-communist inch of the greatest empire on earth, if you wish. And make it twice as long as every other country's unit.
    Doesn't really matter.

    What matters, is the fucked up unit system within the imperial system.
    Let's say you want to convert 1/8 inch rainfall to gallons per square yard? Yes, doable, sure. In the metric system however it's just counting zeros and shifting a decimal point.
    A meter has 100 centimeter, so a square meter has a 100x100 square centimeter, or 10000. Easy, just count zeros. Liters in a cubic meter? Easy. Kilograms per square centimeter to tons per square meter? Easy, just counting zeros.
    But square inch to square feet? Square miles? floz to gallon?
    And if that isn't bad enough, add all the competing units used in the US. Air pressure is a different unit when the air is in the atmosphere or in the tire. For energy, there are different units depending on whether it is an air conditioner, a furnace, a car, what company I get the energy from, and whether the second Friday after Lincoln's birthday falls on a full moon.

    The difference to the metric system is not, that inch and cm are different. The beauty of the metric system is that you have a consistent system. And that's why scientific calculations are usually done in metric and the result is then transfered back to imperial, so the US public won't get worried that the French took over, communists gained control of the class room, or that their politicians betrayed the greatest conceivable nation on earth.

    1. Re:No! It is really, really bad. by VendingMenace · · Score: 3

      The imperial system units only appear fucked up to our modern perspective.

      Right now, measuring things is a relatively simple procedure. We have tools to divide thing up as we wish. Want to saw a 1 meter board into 1/3rd of a meter? No sweat, just divide it by 3 and measure out 33.333... cm to whatever precision you wish. Doesn't mater that this is a rather difficult number to deal with in the real world. We have gates we can dial in the distance we want with digital readouts and whatnot.

      But now consider being a dude trying to build a house in 16th century. You would like to make sure that your corners are square and you happen to know that a 3-4-5 triangle will give you a right angle. Cool. Not too hard to divide a rope into three equal sections or four equal sections either. Just fold it into thirds for the "3" unit and in half twice for the "4" unit. However, what this means is that your desire for square corners dictates that the natural units that you are working in are 3 and 4. Thus, it makes sense that the "total" unit should be divisible by 3 AND 4. So...12. This is why the foot is twelve inches -- some dude a long time ago wanted to build a house with square corners.

      The metric system would have been totally unnatural for a person in the 16th century -- as it is only divisible by 2 and 5. In our world where machines handle both the math and the measurement, this is OK. If you don't have these fancy instruments, it is not.

  16. Re:Easy answer by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

    The problem is that people think that, if we switch, they're going to have to do math every time they see a metric value to make into a value they can make sense of. But that's just not true. What you need to do is just create new reference points. When I see a Celsius temperature, I don't try to convert it to Fahrenheit. I simply remember that 0 is freezing, I need a jacket at 10, 20 is comfortable if it's calm and sunny, 30 is comfortable if it's shady, dry, and breezy, and so on. That's what we've all instinctively done with Fahrenheit, and it's all you really need to do to be comfortable with using a different unit system in your daily life.

    --
    Then the winter came, and the Grasshopper died. And the Octopus ate all his acorns. Also, he got a racecar.
  17. Re:morons by mywhitewolf · · Score: 5, Funny

    that's funny, because in ours (Australia uses metric) our drug dealers sells in ounces and pounds.

  18. Re:morons by guruevi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would think that working in metric would be much easier and less error prone especially in engineering and construction:

    Off the top of your head which set is faster:
    1/4" + 3/16"
    24" + 6.5'
    7/8" + 1/2" - 1/4"

    Or
    6.5mm + 4.5mm
    60cm + 2m
    2.2cm + 1.2cm - 63mm

    Given that you can convert millimeters to centimeters to meters by just moving the comma or adding 0's I would recon it's much faster than calculating/remembering how many inches is in a foot, how many foot is in a mile or how many miles in a hogshead.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  19. Re:It's really quite simple by Randle_Revar · · Score: 5, Funny

    A couple of redneck friends of mine started using "klick" as a distance because they found out the US military uses it. Imagine their reaction when they found out (from me) that it was metric (almost as bad as being French, as far as they are concerned).

  20. Re:Easy answer by fuzznutz · · Score: 5, Funny

    There was an abandoned project in the 80's (I think) where highway signs in parts of the US were using metric and imperial measurements on it

    Yes there was. My favorite sign was on a local highway segment. It said "Metric Signs Next 100 Miles." I swear to God.

  21. Re:morons by Morpork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But that's just familiarity. If you grew up under a metric system, were taught metric in school and saw metric measurements in everyday objects (other than the 2 liter soda bottles...) then you'd be able to visualize 1 kilometer just as easily as you could visualize 1 mile today.
    The issue here is that it will take a generation (or more) to make that transition, during which time all the big nobs will feel increasingly isolated as they're more quickly overtaken by these 'new math' thinkers. Inertia is comforting.

    --
    -- Always borrow money from a pessimist; they don't expect to be paid back.
  22. Re:morons by Technician · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Metric is easier. The big thing that put a big halt on the adoption was the gas crisis in the 1970's when gas creeped to $1.00 gallon. The difficulty was having to compare two standards against each other and the new standard was much more expensive for consumers. As gas pushed $1.00 per gallon. the display on many pumps could not display the higher prices. To prevent buying new pumps, some switched to Liters. Consumers soon found the cheap 35 cent / Liter gas was more expensive and later quit trying to compare prices as common knowledge was the metric gas was more expensive.

    In products where we are not comparing metric and US, the metric standard has become the standard. Soda pop is only sold in metric sizes now. 12 and 16 oz are pretty much gone with 1 Liter 500 ml, 2 Liter etc sizes. Most bottled water is now in the 500 ml bottle. All hardware for mounting your flatscreen TV is all metric. Car engines are almost all metric. Serous, when was the last time you wanted to know how much your soda was in price per gallon? All comparison shopping is done is price per Liter for soft drinks except at the soda fountain where the cups are still 16, 32, 48, 64 oz.

    The slow conversions is in entrenched measurements such as gasoline, kitchen recipes, temperature, etc where one is the standard and people still try to convert units. You tell them it is 24 degrees out and they want to know what that means in F. Having lived in another country I'm fine with metric as I was immersed in it and did not bother to convert. 21-24 is comfortable. 30 is really hot and 10 is time to grab a warmer coat.

    If we started tearing down miles signs and mile markers and replacing them with Metric KM signs and changed the speed signs to 90, the country would soon adopt it. Most cars now can display either clicks or miles.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  23. Why metric makes sense & base units don't matt by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This post is an example of autoplagurism.

    A good system of units needs:
    1) Base units which are well defined and independently reconstructible (i.e. a suitably equipped lab can calibrate their equipment purely from the definition of the units.)
    2) Logically constructed compound units (e.g. units of force are derived from the units of mass, time and distance.)
    3) Logically constructed convenience units (e.g. kilometres for use for distances which would be an inconveniently large number of metres.)
    4) To be widely used.

    The initial choice of your base units is largely arbitrary - whether it was a from a not-very-accurate measure of a king's foot size or from a not-very-accurate measure of the Earth's circumference. Item (1) can be satisfied equally well (or, in the case of mass, badly) by the metric or imperial systems. The definition of the metre has long since changed from the size of the Earth to quantities measurable in a lab (as has the definition of the foot.)

    The SI system (based on metric measures) beats the imperial system hands down on items 2 and 3, and because of this now has a large advantage also on item 4.

    Item 2: In Imperial you might measure (heat) energy in BTU and mechanical energy in some mixture of foot-pounds-seconds, but then you need a conversion factor to compare the two. Such conversion factors are never needed in SI.

    Item 3: Imperial also messes up the convenience units by having lots of weird conversion factors (e.g. an acre is (I think) a furlong by a chain. How many square feet is that? How many ounces in a ton?*) Metric uses convenience units constructed from base units via consistently named factors of 10 or 1000.

    One could go a step further, and define your fundamental units in terms of fundamental physical constants (i.e. the Plank mass, Plank time and Plank distance, charge on an electron, etc.) In such a system of units, the speed of light is 1, the formula for the energy of a photon doesn't need a constant in it etc. In practice, we can't use such a system, because we can't measure (in particular) the universal gravitational constant G with sufficient accuracy. Every time we got a better measure of G, our entire system of units would need to be updated. (I.e. with current technology, this system can't satisfy requirement (1) above.)

    * And how many different sorts of ounces and tons are there? It is quite a few.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  24. Re:morons by smash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Except you're incompatible with the rest of the world. Metric also gives you easy conversions between say, cubic metres and litres. Rather than cubic feet to gallons.

    1 cubic meter = 1000 litres. 1 cubic foot = 7.4805 US gallons or 6.2288 Imperial gallons. I know what I'd much prefer to work in.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  25. Re:morons by westlake · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The truth is that in the U.S. politicians are afraid of offending the majority of people, and a significant amount of them are just a bunch of redneck morons.

    Making friends everywhere you go. Just making friends.

    This passage from the Wikipedia seems relevant:

    In his 1998 monograph Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed, James C. Scott argued that central governments attempt to impose what he calls "legibility" on their subjects. Local folkways concerning measurements, like local customs concerning patronymics, tend to come under severe pressure from bureaucracies. Scott's thesis is that in order for schemes to improve the human condition to succeed, they must take into account local conditions, and that the high-modernist ideologies of the 20th century have prevented this. Scott cites the enforcement of the metric system as a specific example of this sort of failed and resented "improvement" imposed by centralizing and standardizing authority.

    Metrication opposition

    The geek tends to see himself as anarchic-libertarian. But technocratic and elitist would be closer to the truth.

    The solution imposed from on high.

    The vast majority of U.S. customary units have been defined in terms of the meter and the kilogram since the Mendenhall Order of 1893 (and, in practice, for many years before that date).

    United States customary units

    The question then becomes why it should anyone but the architect or mechanical engineer particularly care that room temperatures continue to be displayed in degrees Farenheit.

  26. Subtly untrue by RichiH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > This made them great when making exact measuring devices was extremely difficult.

    No. As you pointed out yourself: A foot in Belgium is not the same distance as a foot in America

    People were forced to create exact measuring devices for all units. Else, they will be cheated. There's a reason why every old church in Europe has circles etched on their front-side. People could hold bread to them to verify they were bought the correct amount. Etc pp.

    > However, none of these units are remotely useful EXCEPT when measuring natural phenomena (which never happen in convenient SI units).

    Celsius comes to mind.

    > then do all the SI internally

    Last I checked, computers used base 2, not SI units.