NASA Fires Up Jet Fuel That Tastes Like Chicken

coondoggie writes "It may never make it into everyday jet-fighter use, but NASA is checking out biofuel made from chicken and beef fat. The chicken fat fuel, known as Hydrotreated Renewable Jet Fuel, was burned in the engine of a DC-8 at NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center as part of its Alternative Aviation Fuels Experiment, which is looking at developing all manner of biofuel alternatives to traditional Jet Propellant 8. The DC-8 is used as a test vehicle because its engine operations are well-documented and well-understood, NASA says."

Comments

Disappointment

[akkornel]

I am disappointed that NASA engineers could not come up with a way to use the acronyms CLUCK and MOO.

Re:Disappointment

[ozmanjusri]

I am disappointed that NASA engineers could not come up with a way to use the acronyms CLUCK and MOO.

I'm disappointed because I read it as fuel that tasted like children, and that made more sense, 'cos you'd get a LOT more fat from rendering down the average American kid than you would from a chicken.

No, DC-8s are being used because

[rolfwind]

it's on the orders of Xenu.

"all manner of biofuel alternatives"...

[PaulBu]

Is it because this fuel packs more bang for the buck than traditional one, or is it because everyone wants to "feel" being green, even when trying to fly to other planets (and using all of 0.0000001% of world's "non-green" emissions of "whatever")? ;)

Just curious,

Paul B.

Re:"all manner of biofuel alternatives"...

[qubezz]

Consider huge chicken rendering plants (the kind that make chicken nuggets etc), the kind that can load up a truck with green nasty chicken grease. As a purified lipid, it should have as much energy as vegetable oils. I would guess the grease would need to be cracked to be something other than a bunker oil equivalent, since fat is solid at room temperature.

Interesting the value that we humans put on animal lives: Miles per chicken.

Re:"all manner of biofuel alternatives"...

[sFurbo]

Fat is mainly esters of glycerol. Usually, fat is transesterified to methyl ester to make biodiesel. The methyl esters have much lower melting points, as their molecular weight is about one third of the glycerol esters. Biodiesel from animal fat is problematic, as turns to jelly at low temperatures. I don't know if DC-8s preheat the fuel, if they do, it shouldn't be a problem.

Re:"all manner of biofuel alternatives"...

[peragrin]

NASA does more than just space but also test beds advanced aeroflight concepts.

alternative fuel and production is a big thing for the military to help cut down supply lines.

Imagine aircraft carrier making their own fuel from seaweed and algee?

Re:"all manner of biofuel alternatives"...

[Registered Coward v2]

Is it because this fuel packs more bang for the buck than traditional one, or is it because everyone wants to "feel" being green, even when trying to fly to other planets (and using all of 0.0000001% of world's "non-green" emissions of "whatever")? ;)

Just curious,

Paul B.

Actually, NASA has a very large and robust set of aeronautical research activities, that are largely unknown outside of the aviation community because either they generally aren't "cool" and "newsworthy" unless you're into planes. the aero research predates NASA back to the old NACA days.

While the green aspect is a good hook; the reran value is developing alternatives to fossil fuels as a price hedge. As the price of oil rises; alternatives become more desirable, even if they are less energy - compact, since they become price competitive to fossils. That acts as a natural break on the price of crude as well can actually cut the cost of the main product since byproducts now have greeter value and / or lower / no disposal costs.

I recall an article that mentioned free fry oil is becoming harder to find as companies spring up to collect and process it into fuels commercially; proving green becomes popular provided it's the right type of "green."

You never know, so take them all!

[akkornel]

I'll be kindof surprised if this biofuel can provide the same amount of amount of energy as an equivalent amount of fossil fuel. I think the idea is more along the lines of research: You do not necessarily know what will work, so try many different things. Take what seems to work, and then allow them to play together! Each area takes a common standard, with built-in flexibility, and comes up with their local fuel variant that works best where they are, but can still play with vehicles made somewhere else. It may be a bit of a dream (or not), so you need research!

Re:You never know, so take them all!

[rgbatduke]

Through the miracle of modern Google:
Chicken Fat: 16,873 BTU/pound
Fuel Oil #2: 19,237 BTU/pound

In fact, I got this from a study that was investigating the advantages of mixing various animal fats with fuel oil to eke the latter -- for example a blend of 1/3 chicken fat and 2/3 fuel oil. You will all be pleased to note that this mix has 18,223 BTU/pound and that chicken fat is readily miscible in fuel oil. By itself it has a moderate tendency to produce ash in the burning process, but this is mitigated in the mixture. Of course this study is investigating the burning of this sort of mix in furnaces, but the principle is the same and I'm guessing that this mix would work fine in any engine that could run on fuel oil #2. An acquaintance of mine already has experience with the standard treatment of animal fats into an acceptable biodiesel (which involves adding a bunch of stuff e.g. methanol and filtering it) and this works too, but is a bigger hassle than just filtering and mixing.

I also, of course, have the common experience of grilling fatty chicken with the skin still on, which can turn your entire grill into the moral equivalent of a rocket engine on short notice and "render" your chicken into little chunks of charcoal. There's plenty of energy in that fat, although less, as noted, than in standard grades of fuel oil. Alas, if untreated it is vulnerable to oxidation, a.k.a. "going rancid" and besides, however many chickens there are they are a lousy source of fat per se in terms of being able to provide a significant sustainable supply of biofuel. I suppose it is better to render the fat from the skins removed making skinless chicken parts, and better to remove this skin and fat than to eat it, but we're talking a drop in the bucket of energy demand.

BTW, "tallow" (saturated animal fats) are little different from more polyunsaturated chicken fat in energy content. They appear to produce less ash burning on their own (hence tallow candles) but more ash in a fuel oil blend. Pretty interesting, actually.

Children fat, however, was not listed. No doubt an oversight on the part of those conducting the study. Personally, I think that using children fat to power rock star tour buses and heat the homes of the elderly would cure the energy crisis in no time at all, as there is little that is wrong with this planet that wouldn't be seriously ameliorated by using up, say, 2-4 billion children (including some of the older children we sometimes refer to as "young adults") and dumping world mythologies in the process that encourage the unrestrained production of still more children. If we used children we could stay toasty warm in the winter and significantly reduce future demand on our limited energy reserves as well as every other fundamental scarcity created by the ongoing Malthusian disaster.

rgb

If it burned human fat.....

[kawabago]

If it burned human fat Jenny Craig Airlines with autoliposucting seats could have great rates and you get to your destination 50 lbs lighter!

Re:If it burned human fat.....

[Registered Coward v2]

If it burned human fat Jenny Craig Airlines with autoliposucting seats could have great rates and you get to your destination 50 lbs lighter!

and we'd see "skinny people" surcharges...

Renewable?? You got to be kidding.

[scsirob]

How can chicken fat be a viable renewable fuel? The energy has to come from somewhere. Corn can be turned into biofuel, but can also be fed to chickens. I can't imagine turning corn into chicken, and then into biofuel is a better way. Not in the least because of the fate of chickens.

Folkes, just because something from nature can be turned into a combustive substance does not mean it is renewable or green.

Re:Renewable?? You got to be kidding.

[Arlet]

The idea is that you eat the chicken, and use the waste products for fuel. I don't think the plan is to set up chicken farms specifically to turn them into jet fuel.

Of course, the big question is how big the supply of waste products actually is. I would guess it's not all that big.

Re:Renewable?? You got to be kidding.

[wintercolby]

I was interested in making biodiesel at home a few years back, and I called all the restaurants in a small rural town near where I live. They were already getting paid for their waste oil. We're starting to see commercially produced biodiesel even in some smaller markets. It's very reasonable to suspect that most if not all commercially produced animal waste fat is already being consumed by the biodiesel market. The industry average for corn based ethanol is about a 40% energy gain, as the OP stated it's unbelievable that they'd get anywhere near that efficiency out of chicken harvesting. Peanuts can produce about 135 gallons of oil per acre, I wonder what the statistic for chickens would be like once one included the acreage to grow feed.

OK, I'm lost now.

[cheros]

For years I have been reading that meat production is one of the major causes of the greenhouse effect (not talked about much, because it's politically easier to tax car drivers and industry than subsidised farmers).

What exactly is the point of using that production for fuel? Would it not be easier to simply reduce the chicken production instead? Or find a way to make turn other waste into fuel. Actually, if we could turn red tape into fuel we could probably stop drilling..

Re:OK, I'm lost now.

[siddesu]

TFA says the major concern is price, not ecological considerations. Apparently someone in the gubbermint is betting that chicken fat will be cheaper than kerosene in a decade or two.

Re:OK, I'm lost now.

[danlip]

Beef and dairy production is a major cause of greenhouse gases because of cow farts - apparently they fart a lot and methane is worse than CO2. I don't think chickens would be as bad - you'd get some because they metabolize and breath out CO2, and you get some methane from the decay of manure (which can be captured and used), but it's less impact. And chickens have a much better input:output ratio caloric than cows.

But the main point is if the fat is being wasted anyway it's better to turn it into fuel. Anytime we can re-purpose part of the waste stream into something useful that's a good thing, provided we aren't deliberately creating waste.

I was disappointed that it was not pork

[Errol backfiring]

Pigs In Space!

Re:Marxist bullshit

[The Terminator]

Neither chicken nor beef production are 'green' or 'eco friendly'. They both require huge inputs of energy and water to get out a given quantity of calories, compared to plant foods. Human beings are not supposed to eat meat, eggs, or cows' milk.
The fact that the idiots at NASA can't even begin to question 'what everyone else is doing' tells you how intelligent they are - not very.
They are even suggesting that long haul space flights have animals on board 'for meat'. Yeah, like that's a really efficient way of getting calories while in space...

Plainly bullshit, humans are omnivores and meat and eggs and milk are essential for our health, but at the same time vegetables are also.

Re:Price

[TheRaven64]

There are so many things wrong with your post that I'm not sure where to start:

First, corn is only cheap in the USA because of the massive subsidies. It isn't cheap anywhere else, and in places where there are an abundance of poor people, it is not one of the major crops.

Secondly, biodiesel from corn is typically made from the inedible parts (which make up the majority of the plant, although outside the USA it's not economically feasible to make biofuels from corn, since you only get about a 1.1 EROI - elsewhere, other crops with much higher EROIs are used), so has little impact on the cost of the food. Food prices have shot up worldwide since around 2007 for one very simple reason: the USA granted Goldman Sachs an exemption from the normal requirements that the number of speculators in commodity markets should be smaller than the number of real producers and consumers. This led to huge amounts of commodity speculation and a bubble covering oil, food, and a number of other things. This bubble has not yet burst, though it probably will soon. .

Thirdly, they're using chicken fat. You know, the stuff that's left over after cooking. There is a huge amount of this surplus. There are entire companies that make money because they are paid to take the fat away in one place, and then paid for it as fuel in another place. The difference here is that they're turning it into a high-grade jet fuel rather than a low-grade diesel.