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Developers: MS Hopes To Lure iOS Apps With API Mapping Tool
Microsoft isn't standing idly by while Appple's app store fills with software; fysdt writes "A newly-announced service called the iOS to Windows Phone 7 API mapping tool acts as an interchange for developers to take applications they've already written for Apple's platform, and figure out ways to get the code work with Microsoft's standards."
...is lowering your own.
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It might be useful as a reference, but in practice this will probably be more of a headache than just building the app from scratch.
... Microsoft will be unstopppable.
...and the NeXTSTEP API was something allowing portability across systems.
is that you have to (AFAIK) buy a Mac to develop for it. I can't really fault Apple on this as it's a great business strategy, but I simply can't be bothered so I'll only make apps for Android, which doesn't require me to buy hardware.
If Microsoft wants their phone to succeed, they need to make sure that their SDK is available on as many platforms as possible.
Summation 2
This may be viable for shops with enough manpower to support multiple OSs and devices, but many one, two or three man shops may not have the resources to deal with support for some low-spec phone so far removed from the basics they can count on iOS.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
WP7 is a charm for developers.
Except those developers who already have a library of application logic code written in standard C++ or Objective-C. On Mac OS X and iOS, a front-end written in Objective-C can link to application logic written in standard C++, and Android provides NDK to allow using standard C++ application logic with a Java front end. (It might be possible to use ObjC on Android through GCC or Clang, but I haven't heard about it.) But WP7, like Xbox Live Indie Games, can use only verifiably type-safe code. Microsoft's C++/CLI is a language that includes both Standard C++ and a C++-like verifiably type-safe language as subsets, but Windows Phone 7 will reject any assembly that uses unverifiable operations, such as any use of the Standard C++ syntax for pointers or references. So how does one translate Standard C++ into the verifiably type-safe subset (/clr:safe) of C++/CLI, other than doing it manually line-by-line and then trying to maintain two versions in parallel?
Developers check in ... but they don't check out!
Microsoft and Apple have switched positions. You have GOT to know how much this stings executives at Microsoft and pisses off MS shareholders. MS has already blown that chance at corporate with their phone OS by fucking over the 6.x using companies.
Until 7, it was an easy migration path for corps and simple to upgrade phones for users. Now there is no upgrade path, so the door is open to choose another platform. No other platform than iOS offers businesses the control and abilities they need with a standard hardware interconnect for custom applications. Vertical markets are choosing iOS.
Their only chance really was the consumer market and they fucked that opportunity with the Zune and Kin fiascos.
"I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"
-Jennifer Saunders as Edina Monsoon
Perhaps you could sorta read that document .. in reverse?
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Sounds like Microsoft development in a nutshell.
"On the other hand, having to deal with Objective-C to code for IOS is a pain."
GC on iOS would be nice. OTOH, the NARC and autorelease rules are pretty straightforward, and in practice it's fairly hard to screw them up. OC isn't as simple as JavaScript, but then again, it's not the hell-on-earth that is C++ with STL and user-overloaded everything. Love the delegate system, and the dynamic selector mechanisms are pretty cool.
The Cocoa Touch frameworks are powerful, much better than Android's, and there are a lot of frameworks like MFMailComposeViewController and MPMoviePlayerViewController that do a ton of work for you with a very few lines of code. Love the new UISwipeGestureRecognizers. As you can see, Cocoa is pretty verbose, but Xcode's autocompletion tools knock it down to a manageable level. Tight integration with the LLVM compiler.
All in all, it's a pretty good language, especially considering that it was created about 30 years ago. Objective-C is based on SmallTalk, which is too bad, 'cause I think using a full-blown SmallTalk system for iOS development would have been a blast.
Besides, learning a new language opens your mind a little, exposes you to knew ideas, stirs the creative juices, and all that... (grin)
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
Then allow me to rephrase: So how does one translate application logic written in Standard C++ into C# or another WP7 supported language, other than doing it manually line-by-line and then trying to maintain two versions in parallel?
So Star Trek icon William Campbell, Trelane in the Squire of Gothos one of the best of TOS episodes ever, and Koloth in TOS and DS9 has died and there is nothing on Slashdot? How is this news for nerds? To bad he never submitted a bug report for some POS OSS because then maybe he'd be worth a story. Slashdot, you have disgusted me worse than Goatse x Tub Girl, please surrender your nerd credentials.
Blackberry's? Sorry, but corporate clients are abandoning the ship en masse. Market share is dropping and US sales in particular are tanking. The Storm line was il-received, and the Playbook is half-baked. Android app integration is going to kill QNX, just as Windows app integration put the final nail into OS/2.
RIM is about to undergo a major implosion.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I like Objective-C. It is very Ruby-like. I think a lot of people come in thinking it is C++, or something, and entirely miss what makes the language so cool.
And I wont get into all the added hoops that Apple development entails - like paying $99 to join the Developer Network just to be able to put your own app on your own device?!?
No, $99 is if you wish to publish your apps to iTunes. It costs you nothing to develop on your own device. I think to publish to Windows Marketplace is about the same price.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The real tragedy was the sheer short sightedness of the executive team. Windows Mobile went unchanged for 5 straight years. That management thought some hex-grid icon chooser thing would fix things was just mind bogglingly stupid. Kin just has the be mentioned and not explained. Even WP7 is having issues, but its chief problems are that it launched 2 years later than would be optimal, and Microsoft severely underestimating the complexity of updates. In truth, everything else looks pretty ok. It has a solid developer toolset, growing library of games and apps, and actual buy-in internally and from third parties.
It's going to be a real hard slog for Microsoft to gain big market share. But the antitrust shackles are coming off, and co-marketing opportunities with Windows 8 might give WP7 a badly needed boost.
Developing for anything Apple is more expensive than any other platform.
False. Developing for Nintendo handhelds is more expensive than developing for Apple handhelds. For one thing, just to be considered, you have to have a dedicated secure office separate from your home and a previous commercial title on another platform (according to warioworld.com). I'd look up information about developing for Sony handhelds, but http://www.tpr.scea.com/ has been down for three weeks.
And I wont get into all the added hoops that Apple development entails - like paying $99 to join the Developer Network just to be able to put your own app on your own device?!?
And I wont get into all the added hoops that Microsoft development entails - like paying $99 to join App Hub just to be able to put your own app on your own Windows Phone 7 or Xbox 360 device?!?
Come on, now. Emacs has a shortcut to generate your program for you.
http://www.xkcd.com/378/
$99 is if you wish to publish your apps to iTunes. It costs you nothing to develop on your own device.
When was this changed? Or are you referring to jailbreaking?
If Microsoft is really serious about convincing developers to port to WP7 from iPhone, they should offer native access to the platform to everyone and
not just special partners.
Most developer shops don't have enough resources to keep parallel versions of the application code in different languages.
Well you need a Mac to publish to the crApp Store, so the cost of developing for iOS is already high.
MonoTouch is more expensive than a Mac. Here are all the costs that I've identified, which quickly (in my opinion) become prohibitive for a hobbyist.
And this doesn't include the price of phone service (a Windows Phone 7 device isn't sold as a PDA, unlike iPod touch and Archos 43, or even as a prepaid phone).
Microsoft Standards don't even work with Microsoft Standards.
Um, I believe you still need to fork over the $99 to be able to get the executables onto your iDevice [as it still have to be signed by Apple to run] unless you jailbreak your iDevice.
You only get to run your app in an emulator on your Mac for free.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Duh, I guess they figure that those thousands of Windows Mobile developers, whose apps are now worthless, can fend for themselves. Actually, many of them went to the iPhone.
You only get to run your app in an emulator on your Mac for free.
Not any more. XCode is now $5 on the Mac App Store.
And I'm not sure how many updates to XCode that $5 covers.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
You can still download v3.x for free [after signing up for a free developers account], which includes the emulator.
As well as just installing XCode from the DVD included with your Mac (and/or Snow Leopard Installer DVD). I'm not sure if it is still being included with the most recently released Mac's, but it's been included on the DVD's for years.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
I hate Objective-C (as do most developers I know). It's syntax is just annoying and awful. It's probably the number one reason I don't do any development for OS X or iOS.
C# is vastly superior. I even perferred C++. Hell, I even liked Java better.
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
So let's see, what's the API to pop up the Apple App Store on Windows 7 phones? xD
Yes, the $99/year gives access to the developer services that include generating the certificates, keys and profiles necessary to get an iOS device to accept apps signed using those certificates.
How much does a Windows Phone 7 code signing certificate cost, though?
...is lowering your own.
Anyone else as surprised as I am that Microsoft HAS standards? All evidence points to the contrary...
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -HLM
What would be really great is if they built this API mapping system... ...and then ensured that the Windows Phone 7 API would map to the desktop Windows API... ...and then you put Wine on a Linux-based phone...
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
The Storm I was ill-received. For good reason.
Rather than rebranding and releasing as a new product and pushing it hard like they did the Storm I they left the Storm II to sit in the backlash of terrible Storm I brand experience, then discontinued it just as it was starting to gain steam as a viable contender in the group-think.
End result is the same, but there was an entire series of bad calls at RIM that leads into their current situation.
Back in the days of Visual Studio 4 our company was doing mainly unix development. We hacked enough scripts to take the unix Imakefile and make it call the Visual Studio compilers and linkers to get the nightly build done on PCs. Main development was in unix. In version 4 or 5 they took away the command line. It was brought back later in v6 or so by the big players. But the damage was already done in our company. We had moved all the Imakefiles out, and wrote out vcproj files, and went to that nightmare called Mainsoft and the build env could never go back to Imakefile and linux when eventually much cheaper alternative to solaris, hpux, irix and Del Alpha emerged. One code base. Overnight builds. We did not need bounds checker or purify. Any memory error forgiven in one platform will crash in another.
I just wish MS would sink a couple of billion dollars to make this kluge work and then Apple make enough tiny changes to the API to make it such pain they get the taste of what they were dishing out to others. I want Apple and Microsoft enter into such a slugfest most developers give up in disgust and move to some platform neutral development environment. I want the dev tool makers to have no incentive to push one platform over another. Would that day ever come?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Or you have to buy a retail copy of Windows to run in dual-boot or virtualization
The last I heard the Windows Phone Seven emulator that you use for developing applications, would not run in a virtualized environment (perhaps it's really a virtualized instance of the phone OS itself?).
Annoying anyway, and it's kept me from playing with the WP7 dev tools.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'd look up information about developing for Sony handhelds, but http://www.tpr.scea.com/ has been down for three weeks.
Between this and PSN, I'm starting to get the feeling that Sony has actually packed up and left the planet with all the money from Sony customers, leaving behind only an AI that issues random press releases to give them time to make a getaway...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How much does a Windows Phone 7 code signing certificate cost, though?
The $99/year gives access to the developer services that include generating the certificates, keys and profiles necessary to get a Windows Phone 7 device to accept apps signed using those certificates.
MS has good dev tools butthere upgrade wizards for .net 1.1 to 4.0 suck so why would I trust one for another platform.
Dipping your phone in the sink results in a much smaller, and greatly shorter-lived headache.
cat
I admit the message passing interface is a little different, but I think the notation makes sense for highlighting messages given the practical constraints of the language. What else don't you like?
Anyone else as surprised as I am that Microsoft HAS standards?
Of course they have standards! They bought ISO, didn't they?
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
It's easier to remember this stuff, when you recall that what actually happened was that NeXT acquired Apple for a negative four hundred million dollars ($US -400 million).
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Yes, because that .NET 4.0 runtime came up on you so quickly. I mean seriously... it seems like only yesterday that 2.0 (2005), 3.0 (2006) and 3.5 (2007) were released and now the're dropping 4.0 (2010) on us and forcing us to upgrade.
I just wish you had a little more notice that this was going to happen.
Seriously, their tools for upgrading managed code are great. They even document for you APIs that have been deprecated and suggest the new API to use. You're complaining about an upgrade wizard that is trying to figure out what you did 8 years ago and how it relates to Today. Really? What other platforms do that?
Bill
It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
Isn't it time to get a new leader at MS?
MS needs an engineer, not a marketing suit who understands where things could go.
Funny, having a marketing suit seems to be working for Apple. However, Microsoft's marketing suit doesn't seem to have the charisma that Apple's marketing turtleneck...er... suit does.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
More than marketing, Steve Jobs have long term vision, something that is missing from every CEO today and almost all politicians. Who in his "right" mind in 1976 could have thought that "personal" computers that came prebuilt and output to a TV set instead to 7 segment LED display in hex code could have an use for common people, aside Jobs? About a really easy to use MP3 player, with a fast interface to a PC? About a new all in one computer, tailored to the huge masses that never had a personal computer before? Marketing is a very small part of Apple's huge success.
For all his drawbacks, Bill Gates has an almost sick desire to win, something that seriously lacks Steve Ballmer.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
I wonder why they ask the $5 for it. The XCode is worth thousands of dollars but apple chose to give it away for free. Comparing to the actual price the $5 is as good as free but creates a small entry barrier in sense I have to go searching for my credit card or iTunes store credentials. Maybe they want us to be all set for publishing once we get this XCode running on our machines making the iTunes account creation a part of installation process.
Good developer tools cost money. A lot of money. If you think that Apple or Microsoft make profit on this $99 then you're mistaken.
Don't be cheap and just buy those damn licenses if you're really interested or leave it if you aren't. There are far too many "me too" apps in android store diluting the value of professional made apps making the android worth less for developers and consumers.
. . .. . but with Symbian you can develop on a Mac, Windows or Linux...... YAY! :-)
This is all just my personal opinion.
SOX compliance.
Xcode4 contains so many new significant features and changes that if Apple gave it for free, they'd have to restate their revenue numbers (because they've already recognized the "revenue" for Xcode 3.x in the cost of a Snow Leopard).
XCode 3.x is still free because there's no new features.
Apple's recognizes revenue for most of their products at the time of purchase. For the iPhone, they split it over 2 years. Microsoft recognizes revenue for all their sales over 3 years or so.
The problem with Objective-C is that it has all the conciseness and execution speed of Smalltalk combined with all the ease of use and memory safety of C. ~
www.geek.com/articles/mobile/moonlight-dev-crew-brings-silverlight-to-android-20110415/
Who in his "right" mind in 1976 could have thought that "personal" computers that came prebuilt and output to a TV set instead to 7 segment LED display in hex code could have an use for common people, aside Jobs?
Steve wozniak.
Steve jobs has always been a business man, not an engineer, the engineers are the ones who make the nice gadgets, the businessmen do marketing, make requests of the engineers like marketing do, and take care of finances.
It's main claim to fame was that you could take your existing CP/M code, and with a few changes make it run on their new product.
Of course all it did was suck programmers across to this new platform where people just stopped writing the old stuff.
Has someone reopened the old play book ? Hello, Bill - is that you back again :-)
I still cannot fathom how every company in the world is capable of giving you updates to a product you got from them for free without attracting SEC investigators and IRS auditors out the wazoo. Every company in the world, that is, except Apple. Unless... here's the most likely reason... the "SOX compliance" issue is a load of bullshit.
Just as a reminder, here's a nonexhaustive list of companies who can give you updates to products from them for free:
Sony
Microsoft
Nintendo
Dell
HP
Samsung
HTC
Google
And now here's an exhaustive list of companies that have to charge you "for SOX compliance reasons":
Apple
Unless there's a section of SOX that starts off with "If you are Apple Incorporated..." then this excuse is crap.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
OK; I'm dating myself a bit here but back when OS/2 was more than a distant memory, IBM included a feature called WinOS2 that would allow you to run native Windows apps in OS/2. The intent was to lure developers to OS/2; it did exactly the opposite. It worked well enough that developers switched to Windows, knowing that using WinOS2 their products would also work under OS/2.
This could have the same effect. The unintended message could be "do all your development under iOS, then do a quick port to WP7 to capture both markets." Only problem is, the 'ported' apps tend to look like exactly what they are...
Anyone who could remember Douglas Englebart's lecture from eight years before?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It's a giant honking download. Maybe they simply wanted to keep a zillion people from downloading it just because they can.
Who in his "right" mind in 1976 could have thought that "personal" computers that came prebuilt and output to a TV set instead to 7 segment LED display in hex code could have an use for common people, aside Jobs?
Steve wozniak.
Steve jobs has always been a business man, not an engineer, the engineers are the ones who make the nice gadgets, the businessmen do marketing, make requests of the engineers like marketing do, and take care of finances.
That's assuming Woz hadn't been perfectly happy with an Altair, instead of Job's edging him to make something easier to use.
Jobs strong point is not marketing (else he wouldn't have called in sugar water salesman Sculley, not to mention that all his products would have been hits then), it's convincing people to do what he wants done, even if they thing that it can't be done.
Fandroids hate facts.
I still cannot fathom how every company in the world is capable of giving you updates to a product you got from them for free without attracting SEC investigators and IRS auditors out the wazoo. Every company in the world, that is, except Apple. Unless... here's the most likely reason... the "SOX compliance" issue is a load of bullshit.
Just as a reminder, here's a nonexhaustive list of companies who can give you updates to products from them for free: Sony Microsoft Nintendo Dell HP Samsung HTC Google
And now here's an exhaustive list of companies that have to charge you "for SOX compliance reasons": Apple
Unless there's a section of SOX that starts off with "If you are Apple Incorporated..." then this excuse is crap.
So PSP to PSP2 was free, Windows Vista to 7 was free, GameCube to Wii was free ....
Fandroids hate facts.
Half of your examples are hardware upgrades, which are pretty obviously a bullshit analogy. The other was a completely new OS, when a closer analogy is Windows XP to Windows XP SP2 (which added about as many features as Leopard to Snow Leopard). Ever seen new features in a free Apple update? Me neither.
But I don't expect you to accept that, your nickname alone makes it quite clear you can justify their behaviour in the face of insurmountable evidence. So I won't bother.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".