Apple To Distribute OS X Lion via the Mac App Store

An anonymous reader writes "Apple this Summer is expected to release Mac OS X Lion. As opposed to other OS X releases, however, Lion will also be available for purchase via the Mac App Store, further solidifying Apple's efforts to make the Mac App Store an integral part of the Mac user experience." A lot of questions surrounding this related to the ability to make bootable disks. And also, why don't they just use apt-get? I gotta admit: it makes me nervous getting my OS from an App Store — which is strange considering how many kernels I've downloaded, built and booted over the years.

Comments

Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[elrous0]

This is just the latest attempt to promote the Mac app store, but it's also another step toward what's ultimately coming. Mac computers will one day be every bit as closed off as iPhones and iPads, with all software having to come through the Mac app store the same way it has to now with the iPhone/iPad app stores. Everything Apple will then be a walled garden, with Apple as gatekeepers.

I would like to think that people would howl about this when it happens, of course. But I bet that Apple will sell it as a necessary security measure to protect against viruses and attacks, and that most Mac users (and most members of the public) will be all-too-willing to trade freedom for security. Sadly, it will probably only increase Mac sales--prompting other PC makers to follow suite with their own closed systems.

I shudder to think that we may one day look back and ask "Hey, remember when you could install whatever software you wanted on your computer without having to jailbreak it or void the warranty?"

And now, let the flood of "Oh, Apple would never do that" replies begin:

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[clang_jangle]

I think you're probably correct about the direction Apple is headed in. I bought my first Mac in 1987 but their behavior has effectively alienated me the last couple of years, along with the fact that OS X is nearly as buggy as windows now, and plus the Applestore techs were not competent to repair the last Mac I owned (If you have to replace the replacement "logic board" then maybe the problem wasn't ever the "logic board").

As far as the OS goes, Tiger was the pinnacle -- it's gone downhill since then. I think I knew in my heart this would happen in 2005, the day they issued the Tiger update that eliminated console login.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[CharlyFoxtrot]

This is just the latest attempt to promote the Mac app store, but it's also another step toward what's ultimately coming. Mac computers will one day be every bit as closed off as iPhones and iPads, with all software having to come through the Mac app store the same way it has to now with the iPhone/iPad app stores.

It's also eating their own dog food and getting the OS upgrade over the internet seems like a good thing: less pollution, no waiting, etc. Apps downloaded through the Mac App Store are regular files just like those downloaded from anywhere else. I'm guessing this software update will be just an image stored somewhere on your hard disk. I won't say Apple would never do what you're suggesting but I will say they can't. You can't get the toothpaste back into the tube. If they truly wanted to do what you describe they'd have to replace computers entirely with iOS based devices, I can't see that happening.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[powerlord]

Except that a lot of the people that consist of the Apple "Grass Roots" are power users who are likely to balk at such a setup.

More likely, someone realized that since OS X DVDs do NOT come with a License key, and you can already make an ISO image of them easily using the software built into OS X, why not just sell it through the App Store and let people download and burn their own image?

It costs less to the Manufacturer. (packaging/shipping costs)
It cuts the middleman out. (don't need to give Best Buy or other non-apple on-line/retail stores a cut)
It provides quick availability. (as fast as their servers and your pipe can handle)
It provides a remote backup for customers. (a + for non-technically savvy customers)

All in all it seems like wins all around, I'm not sure why Apple WOULDN'T do this.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[MBGMorden]

I don't think anyone is claiming that app-stores in general are a bad thing. It's just that Apple has in the past proven that they are more than willing to set up a platform so that their app-store is the ONLY method for getting software on the device. The other players you mention have not done that.

Consider it like a kitchen knife. I use kitchen knives all the time - they're wonderful tools with a lot of utility. If Wolfgang Puck asks to borrow one I wouldn't regard that with a bit of suspicion. If Charles Manson asked for one though, there's going to be an issue.

Apple has already destroyed my trust in them. The locked down situation on their mobile devices isn't a "What if", a "You know, they might . . .", or any other situation. It's real, it's here. They did it. I don't trust them anymore. End of story.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[ZorinLynx]

Type >console as the username and no password.

Viola.

It's still there. Stop spreading FUD.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[cbackas]

I don't share you opinions on their direction, which is OK. But I find it curious to say that Tiger was the pinnacle. We're an all-Mac shop, and we have various machines still running Tiger. We also have Leopard and Snow Leopard around. Tiger is easily the worst to work with, its age shows badly.

And for what it's worth, console login was never removed. Works on all our machines up to and including 10.6.7. Same as it ever was, login as ">console".

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[Pieroxy]

Viola.

Learn your french. "Viola" literally means "raped" which I doubt is what you meant.

The proper term is 'Voila' which is even better written "Voilà".

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[DrgnDancer]

MacOS is *not* getting more closed everyday. It's not one iota more closed than it was a year ago or two years ago. You're jumping at shadows. Explain to me, in a way that doesn't involve a conspiracy theory, how being able to buy the OS online and download it, as an *option*, makes MacOS more closed? It's one of the great advantages of Linux, but it somehow makes Macs more closed? Same with the App Store, it's an entirely optional additional way to get software onto the system, explain to me (again, without conspiracy theories) how an additional, entirely optional, method of acquiring applications closes down the OS?

All of the FUD regarding MacOS being "more closed everyday" is entirely bases on an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory wherein Apple somehow rewrites all the guts of OSX so that somehow root can't install software which has not been sold through the app store. It would be difficult to do, serve little purpose (there's virtually no evidence that the App store is a huge profit center for Apple on any of its platforms), and piss of a wide chunk of the user base. It's *highly* unlikely to happen.

If (and this is a big if) it did happen, it would require a OS upgrade to implement. They can't force you to upgrade the OS. If (and again, a big if) they did do this, at that point you can simply chose to not upgrade your Macs, and not buy any new ones. At that point you can say "well, Apple really has jumped the shark, they get no more of my money." You can then either just keep using the old version of OSX on your hardware till it dies, or use boot camp to install Windows or Linux. It's not like they can remotely disable a part of the firmware on your computer becasue it no longer fits their business model this whole thing is a manufactured problem dreamed up by anti-Apple trolls without the least basis in fact.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[jo_ham]

If it had 3 logic boards it should have been swapped for a new machine.

I know Apple aren't going to universally have good service, or that all the individual stores will be the same etc, but they generally score extremely highly in customer satisfaction surveys, so they do try.

We had a logic board issue with one of the early Powermac G5's (issues with the ethernet port dropping to 100 speed on our gig switch, but working fine in direct connection to another PM G5 (which worked just fine on that switch). Rather than have take it in for a logic board swap, since it was one of our edit machines then sent out a PCI gigE ethernet card at no expense for us to install so we could make do until it was convenient to have the machine taken in for a logic board replacement.

Speaking out of interest, what computer manufacturer offers a direct swap out on the standard warranty on the first fault? From my experience Apple Care (the default 1 year unextended one) is pretty good in comparison to other places - it's at least as good as other manufacturers. Of course it's not going to be awesome every time, and you're going to have occasional lemons (a logic board swap usually cures the issue right away, or a bad stick of ram being replaced, or a hard drive etc), so it's not cost effective to just swap out whole machines - it will just drive the prices up - when simple repairs will cure the majority of issues. It is unfortunate you had a system with an ongoing fault, but it is not the norm.

I'm not trying to "give them a pass" or anything - if you are treated badly you should let them know so they can address it, or look for options if you are feeling your "time is being trivially abused" - sort of like our repair situation. I mentioned the issues with losing a production machine at a heavy time and they came up with a solution that kept us happy, and then they fixed the machine. It cost them whatever a GigE card cost at that time, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to customer satisfaction.

If you had a bad experience, you should tell them about it. It's the only way to address shortcomings (short of random monitoring etc). Nothing like bringing it to their attention.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[Angostura]

The Mac group weren't incompetent either. They were linux fanatics and they actually use Linux as their work machines.

And I suspect this was precisely the issue. In my experience Linux experts who try to admin Macs quite often break things in ingenious ways. It's not their fault; the underpinnings of OS X look misleadingly similar to Linux when viewed from a terminal - 'look all the familiar directories are there' and many of the familiar tools. But these are traps for the unwary. OS X does things its own way and trying to admin via the CLI using a system that looks superficially similar, rather than going the 'Mac way' tends to end up with the system horribly borken.

Re:Macs will be a closed platform in the end

[DJRumpy]

About inline with the first post, claiming Apple will soon be closed, without the slightest bit of proof to that fact, and it's marked as insightful. /. has become a joke as of late. It's too politicized and no longer interested in fact. The location bug was a good example. It was all doom and gloom, and evil unleashed until it was revealed that Droid did it too. Then it was acceptable but only for a short time that happened to coincide with the length of time that Droid kept the data.

Although I agree it's definitely a push to promote the app store, there is no indication anywhere that the Mac platform will be locked down, and you won't find a citation anywhere other than hearsay, yet it's immediately modded as it sits now without anything relevant or otherwise to back up such a claim.

Bootable

[shitzu]

"A lot of questions surrounding this related to the ability to make bootable disks."

You should really try a mac sometimes.

Re:Bootable

[0100010001010011]

I wouldn't be surprised if the "retail" version was just a USB jump drive. The MacBook Air doesn't have an optical drive. I removed the Optical drive from my MacBook Pro so I could have 2 hard drives. Spinning media has an expiration date that is quickly approaching.

Re:Bootable

[stewbacca]

No kidding. Not only does Apple NOT prohibit disk imaging, they include the software to do so with every Mac and provide directions on how to do it:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=DiskUtility/10.5/en/duh3.html

As usual, a FUDdy claim about Macs is easily squashed with a tiny amount of exposure to the platform and a google search.

It is fine until third parties are required

[Shivetya]

The day they require app installation for third party products to go through the "App Store" is the day I stop buying Apple computers. I don't care about the restriction on the iPad, that was there when I bought it. If anything all the App Store has proved to me is that its nearly impossible to separate good programs from bad ones because it costs nothing to get them on the store. By that I mean, to have a successful product in the retail environment today means being quality enough or a well enough known group to get stores to stock your products. With the App Store there is such a small barrier to entry it just becomes a cluttered mess.

Back to the story, I don't care where I get OS versions/updates. Whats so different from an App Store than downloading from a corporate website (like you do with Windows Service Packs which is what Lion feels to me - just like Snow Leopard was before it... etc)

Re:Apt-get???

[creepynut]

The difference is that package managers like apt, yum, etc let you specify your own sources. Apple's App Stores do not allow this. Without jailbreaking, the iOS devices can only get apps from Apple.

If I install Ubuntu and want to get the latest and greatest from vendor X they can just give me an installer which adds themselves to my apt sources. I think Adobe does this, but it's been a few years since I've used Linux and my primary desktop.

I've been primarily an Apple user, but if Mac ever goes closed like iOS does I'll be back on Linux in a split second.

Re:Can someone step up to the plate?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

With the advent of App Store for OS X and problems getting GPL software in app stores (how to distribute source?), what is needed is an open source app store.

Can someone port Synaptic (or any other repository-based system) to OS X and Windows? The benefits are huge and should be obvious.

I'm not a programmer, but wouldn't mind paying a token sum to get a free app store for OS X.

You've already got 3 repository type systems for OSX : Fink, MacPorts and Homebrew.

This isn't bad at all; it's a good thing!

[Jahava]

This is just the latest attempt to promote the Mac app store, but it's also another step toward what's ultimately coming. Mac computers will one day be every bit as closed off as iPhones and iPads, with all software having to come through the Mac app store the same way it has to now with the iPhone/iPad app stores. Everything Apple will then be a walled garden, with Apple as gatekeepers.

I would like to think that people would howl about this when it happens, of course. But I bet that Apple will sell it as a necessary security measure to protect against viruses and attacks, and that most Mac users (and most members of the public) will be all-too-willing to trade freedom for security. Sadly, it will probably only increase Mac sales--prompting other PC makers to follow suite with their own closed systems.

I shudder to think that we may one day look back and ask "Hey, remember when you could install whatever software you wanted on your computer without having to jailbreak it or void the warranty?"

And now, let the flood of "Oh, Apple would never do that" replies begin:

So here's my question: is it really so bad?

So sure, Apple is the gatekeeper between the software world and their desktop devices. The App Store is that gate. Apple works diligently to prevent malicious code from entering the App Store, push out software updates, etc. Their system is no longer open / free, and that sucks. Fortunately, we have Linux, FreeBSD, Windows (although I suspect MS will follow in Apple's footsteps), and a host of other operating systems to turn to if we want software freedom, console login, etc.

If Apple closed off their devices, I would still not rule them out. Obviously I wouldn't use them as a hacking platform, but if Apple allows FOSS into their App Store, I don't see how even my daily usage of their systems would change much. Apple systems would become less suitable for some niche things, like debugging, emulation, penetration testing, etc., but most of the time that's not what people use Apple for.

The issue comes when / if Apple starts preventing legitimate software from entering their App Store. If Apple makes the App Store the only gateway into their devices, you can bet that there will be a suit of lawsuits from whatever company gets barred, the EFF, etc.; if Apple loses these, then their platform will become open "enough" again. If they win, then that is the day I stop using Apple products, as they are no longer free and flexible enough for my tastes.

And even then, while Apple systems may not meet my tastes as a developer, the App Store gateway is a perfect model for my parents, grandparents, cousins, and siblings. The less maintenance they have to do, including software vetting and updates, the better.

This is a good thing; Apple is defining its market, and through this move it will be far more suitable for the 95% of the population that only ever wanted to use a computer as an appliance.

Was there anything in that article...

[alispguru]

... saying Lion would be available only through the App Store?

No, there wasn't.

Stop hyperventiating, folks.

Re:Apt-get???

[jcupitt65]

MacPorts and Fink are more trouble than they are worth, usually. They just don't have enough package maintainers, sadly, and their policy of constant updates also means constant breakages. I've switched to jhbuild for making .app bundles.

Debian and Ubuntu are in a totally different class. Their repositories are just wonderful -- huge choice, expertly packaged, thoroughly tested -- and have saved me days and days of thankless tinkering.

Here's hoping OS X and Win get something as good in less than 5 years. You never know.