Crowdsourcing Radiation Monitoring In Japan

fysdt writes "A new open- and crowdsourced initiative to deploy more geiger counters all over Japan looks to be a go. Safecast, formerly RDTN.org, recently met and exceeded its $33,000 fund-raising goal on Kickstarter, which should help Safecast send between 100 and 600 geiger counters to the catastrophe-struck country. The data captured from the geiger counters will be fed into Safecast.org, which aggregates radiation readings from government, nonprofit, and other sources, as well as into Pachube, a global open-source network of sensors."

Comments

Re:There are better ways to spend your money

[YA_Python_dev]

Huh? Aren't they the second richest country in the world?

No. The EU, the US and China all have a higher GDP than Japan, according to all the commonly used sources. You can start with a list of countries by GDP or the same list using PPP GDP if you prefer.

Is the EU a country?

[YA_Python_dev]

Just as a curiosity, why _wouldn't_ you count individual EU states separately? EU states are actual countries, you know?

That's certainly true but AFAICT the EU itself is also in the process of slowly becoming a country (arguably it already is, since December 1, 2009 when it acquired international legal personality independent of its member states). The power within it has been for decades constantly moved from inter-government negotiations between the individual members to EU-wide shared institutions (e.g. the European Commission and the Parliament).

Re:There are better ways to spend your money

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it is a country. It has a flag, an anthem, its own police and military forces, a parliament and a cabinet, a president, general elections, its own currency, its own borders, its own ambassadors, common foreign policy, an international legal personality, and, most importantly, since December 1, 2009, sovereign authority over all of its territories, overruling the local, errrr, "national" "governments", even the constitutions of member "states".

A really, really bad idea (seriously!)

[Wdi]

Measuring radiation is not as simple as measuring a temperature (and even that is something nobody wants to entrust an amateur with for the purpose of weather forecasts, etc.).

Depending on sample geometry, distance to sample, even atmospheric conditions for alpha/beta radiation, not to forget cleanliness of the counter, measurements can easily be different by a factor of 1000 or more (!) if you just hand a counter to a lay person and ask him/her to determine some radiation level out in the nature.

Without calibration, test sample verification, standard equipment, and very precise instructions on sample preparation and measurement conditions, the collected data is absolutely worthless.

Re:A really, really bad idea (seriously!)

[freaklabs]

Actually we're working with health physicists that were at Three Mile Island and geiger manufacturers. We also have two gamma spectrometers that we're using to identify isotopes and we're putting together data templates so that people who upload data can also mention the tube, conversion factor, CPM, orientation, etc. We're also collaborating with local universities who are also helping us collect data and will be using it in their research.

Re:A really, really bad idea (seriously!)

[Wdi]

Using curse words does not prove any competence.

I do actually have radiochemistry training, and your arguments show that you do not have any significant domain expertise at all. But this has never stopped anybody from posting, or insulting people, has it?

Hand-held Geiger counters, as shown on the picture in the article, and this is what I presume will be distributed, are only useful for very limited scenarios, such as
a) It's ticking, I should not go any deeper into this reactor housing/nuclear explosion ground
b) It's ticking. I spilled something on the lab bench/I stepped into something and should decontaminate.
c) Measure something really well mixed, like Radon gas in basements, or clean analytical solutions (*not* anything from ponds or puddles, the radioactive isotopes are generally adsorbed to colloidal matter in these samples, and that brings all kinds of problems). For the latter, use a well-defined sample volume and measurement geometry for reproducible readings.

As for the diluted fallout from a reactor, that is very, very different from those scenarios. We are mostly talking about solid aerosol particles, in deposited form or drifting with the wind, which are very unevenly distributed, tend to accumulate in unexpected places, and generally stick to matter.

So this is NOT
- atmospheric monitoring. Radon or other well-distributed radioactive gases are a very minor factor
- fixed and standardized geometry. The picture in the article shows somebody pointing a counter to the ground. This may or may not a location where the average concentration has been enhanced or diluted. And with gamma rays, the normal square distance law applies, so minimal distance variations have a large effect. For alpha and beta, the distance law has an even higher power, because the particles collide with air molecules, or water droplets in the air.
- Cleanliness is a very major factor, and not just for the case of somebody sticking a counter into a puddle. If you just put a counter onto a mast, a radioactive aerosol particle may or may not deposit on the surface of the counter - and then stick. If it sticks, it will overpower any other radiation background, just because it is so much closer to the counter, and give much exaggerated readings. If nothing happens to fall on the counter, it will underestimate the dangers- if a radioactive alpha or beta particle is drifting by within just a few centimeters, hardly anything will register because of the very limited range of this type of radiation. Air-borne aerosol contamination can only be measured reliably by sucking large, measured amounts of air through a well-defined filter, and then measuring the radiation of the filter. Simple hand-held devices are completely useless for this purpose, even if they are dusted of weekly.
- In any case, the most important task will likely be to identify hot spots *on the ground, or in water*, where major aerosol deposits have accumulated, probably aided by solution/evaporation processes, and then treat these, before they get airborne again.