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Comcast Helps Fix Pirate Bay Connection Problems

MagusSlurpy writes "Far from blocking The Pirate Bay, Comcast was just one of several ISPs on which TPB was unreachable today. Comcast reached out to the torrent site, and its engineers provided technical support, eventually determining that the connectivity issues stemmed from a reverse path filtering issue at an intermediate ISP, Serious Tubes Networks."

52 of 237 comments (clear)

  1. Hahaha have some crow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So are all the people who bashed Comcast gonna man up and admit they were acting like bitches and eat their crow?

    1. Re:Hahaha have some crow by guyminuslife · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, they still suck. However, it's a promising move toward a possible redemption.

      (I doubt it, though.)

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    2. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Vectronic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or... they could have been "helping" in the hopes of gaining some sort of information they weren't aware of, making their blocking/limiting/crapiness that much more effective.

    3. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Bengie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I now have more respect for their engineers, not their management.

    4. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you establish a pattern of fucking with the network and lying about it, having the worst assumed about you when circumstances are shady comes with the territory. Did people reach the wrong conclusion? Yes, apparently. Were they wrong or was it irrational to do so? Not particularly.

    5. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Dahamma · · Score: 2

      You know, I want to hate Comcast as much as everyone else, but I am paying what I consider a fair price (it's a promotion, but a *2 year* discounted promotion) for a huge selection of HD TV channels, IP phone service, and consistent 30Mbps down/ 3Mbps up Internet access.

      I do admit their customer support isn't always the most useful when something goes wrong, but they have always tried to help (and when they eventually did have to send a tech to fix the line, he was very competent). Gotta give credit to almost all of the front line employees I have interacted with. I'm sure their lobbyists and execs are appropriately evil, but I haven't had to deal with them (or their policies) yet...

    6. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Kaenneth · · Score: 2

      Maybe I would have bashed them, but last night I couldn't connect to the Internet at all on my Comcast connection, so I was unaware of this other problem.

    7. Re:Hahaha have some crow by DavidRawling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Were they wrong or was it irrational to do so? Not particularly.

      Jumping to conclusions is pretty much the very fucking definition of irrational.

      You're right, we should never infer a future or new behaviour from an existing verified pattern of behaviour - yeah that's just so irrational. Or perhaps you're suggesting that the application of network "management" policies is completely random? No I think in this instance, accuse first and apologise later is justified.

    8. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Dhalka226 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, they were.

      Slashdot users spend half of every day bitching about how Joe Average just isn't discerning enough. They don't support the politicians and policies that Slashdot Joe supports, therefore the conclusion is that they just accept whatever is spoon-fed to them. Slashdot Joe is immune to advertising because he's just too smart, but it's a multi-billion dollar industry so the explanation must be that Joe Average just can't resist the urge to buy any shit they see on TV. Joe Average and everybody like him are "sheeple," a term that, if not invented here, certainly crops up everyday. It goes on and on and on, every single day.

      Sometimes things can't be verified, or at least can't be verified with an average person's resources. Sometimes, it's as simple as dropping to a fucking shell and typing "ping thepiratebay.org" with a non-Comcast ISP and realizing that people are being "sheeple." Which do you figure this was?

      Not everybody attached to this story was wrong. From the sounds of it, there was a progression where at some point, non-Comcast users could still reach the site while Comcasters couldn't. But by the time the story hit Slashdot, it was already bullshit and not one person in the entire chain of posting this story, including paid "editors," bothered to see if it was true. Then the vast majority of Slashdotters, many of whom posted some idiocy about how superior they are yesterday and will do so again tomorrow, jumped right on the bandwagon, unable to be bothered to spend literally ten seconds of their own time to verify what they're being told. Then there's people like you, defending it. Gosh, it can't be that you were in the wrong, it's just that Comcast sucks soooooo much that assuming they're wrong without spending ten seconds to see is the logical thing to do! No, sorry. Own up to the failure. Own up to this site, at least today, being no better than the "sheeple" they deride. This is a technology website for god's sake. If we can't be bothered to take ten seconds to see if we know what we're talking about... well, we deserve being put in our place by situations like this, don't we?

      Defending this is just juvenile. This wasn't Comcast's failure--neither the problems with TPB nor everybody else jumping to conclusions because ten seconds of their life to verify fact and fiction is just too much to ask. It was the failure of the people jumping to those conclusions, period, and like the OP said, they should shut up and eat their crow.

    9. Re:Hahaha have some crow by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Those evil bastards!

      First they provide a good service for a fair price. Then when you're used to it, they keep providing the same service.

      How dare they!

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    10. Re:Hahaha have some crow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's how tech support works at Comcast:

      Me: I have no connection
      Them: Unplug your modem, wait 30 seconds and plug in your modem.
      Me: I already did that.
      Them: Unplug your modem, wait 30 seconds and plug in your modem.
      Me: Yeah, that didn't work
      Them: Unplug your modem, wait 30 seconds and plug in your modem.
      Me: Still nothing.
      Them: Unplug your modem, wait 30 seconds and plug in your modem.
      Me: Can I talk to someone else?
      Them: Unplug your modem, wait 30 seconds and plug in your modem.
      Me: *click*

    11. Re:Hahaha have some crow by JustOK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...and the price stays the same?

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    12. Re:Hahaha have some crow by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      Your connection is probably doing what Rogers does here in Canada. They're actually adveretising it as such, too... when they see "extra" bandwidth available, you get a quick burst of speed before it drops down... the result is that when you do a speed test, poof, you get 25meg, but as soon as you try to download something that's more than a couple of megs, you lose the speed boost and get a more realistic measure of your line speed. Works great for watching Youtube/Vimeo, but sucks balls for anything larger than that.

      I probably get better throughput on my 5meg DSL connection than you do on your cable connection, because my DSL provider doesn't play shenanigans like that.

    13. Re:Hahaha have some crow by MBaldelli · · Score: 2

      From TFA:

      The report didn’t go unnoticed by Comcast either. In a response to the issue Jason Livingood, Executive Director Internet Systems Engineering at Comcast, told TorrentFreak: “Please note that we do not block websites and we are NOT blocking The Pirate Bay.”

      Looks like Comcast management saw the problem and addressed it even before Pirate Bay asked for help. Unless you don't consider Executive Director as management.

      I don't entirely believe this given my experience working inside Data Service Providers. I've called over to various regional NOC/SOCs (both within the ISP that I worked at and others that I had contact phone numbers to) and when it comes to backbone issues (speed/throughput, hand-off and even routing issues), unless they're getting an alarm from somewhere, they generally don't know that there is a problem. And even then they don't always get the necessary alarms to tell them this is a problem in the first place and will blithely go about their business without a second thought.

      Given that this story hit the news what most probably happened is this. End-user (residential and even business) Customer Support was getting an influx of calls regarding connectivity issues to Pirate Bay. Various reps that are knowledgeable as to who they can contact about this as well as managers noticing a trend in calls sent the necessary data over to the NOC with proof of potential routing issues contacts were made and eventually the issue was resolved.

      This Executive Director simply took the credit for whoever in the NOC was able to determine the problem and get the issue resolved.

      --
      "The truth points to itself." - Kosh, Babylon5
    14. Re:Hahaha have some crow by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, according to Serious Tubes Network (the ISP in question), Comcast did _not_ help them:
      http://serioustubes.org/

      Important news:

      Comcast did not help us fix The Pirate Bay. The problem was GBLX using reverse path filtering. We shut down one of our transits because it was flapping. The result was that all outgoing traffic to GBLX got filtered even though the packets took the same path as before. The Pirate Bay is using different paths for incoming and outgoing traffic to avoid beeing traced. We don’t even know where their servers are. We resolved the issue by activating our other transit again.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  2. I'm confused. by BitterOak · · Score: 2

    Does this mean that Comcast isn't evil after all?

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    1. Re:I'm confused. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No.

    2. Re:I'm confused. by gman003 · · Score: 2

      More like "They weren't evil in this specific instance". As an ex-Comcast customer, I know they are more than capable of evil - they just know not to do so when they'll get caught.

    3. Re:I'm confused. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2

      No, it just means that they are afraid to draw attention to the fact that they are evil, you know, when their merger with NBC is being scrutinized. Best if they look like they really care about keeping the network neutral and just carrying bits, so that nobody thinks of asking what might happen when NBC's competitors try to stream their video over Comcast's little corner of the Internet.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    4. Re:I'm confused. by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Even evil must sometimes do good. For example, you have to earn trust before you can breach it.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    5. Re:I'm confused. by pushing-robot · · Score: 5, Funny

      Rule of Aquisition #76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    6. Re:I'm confused. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...and what mistakes would you be referring to?

      Sorry, but when it comes to large and powerful corporations, I have a lot of trouble trusting them to help people who actually harm their bottom line. Comcast has throttled BitTorrent in the past, they own TV stations whose shows can be found via TPB, and they are busy trying to make sure that the government does not pass any regulations that would impede their ability to throttle or filter traffic. Now suddenly a technical problem strikes TPB, and people immediately ask if Comcast is doing this deliberately; Comcast can ignore the problem and let "Serious Tubes Networks" deal with it, or they can help out and gain some positive PR.

      Gee, why would I think that Comcast was not just trying to get some good PR here?

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    7. Re:I'm confused. by Technician · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Between Netflix, VOIP, and tons of commercials, Cable TV has been taking a hit in the downturn in the economy. They need to keep their Internet subscribers. This is more important to keep their triple play customers. Between FIOS and other competition, their market is seriously eroding.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    8. Re:I'm confused. by celle · · Score: 2

      "Friendly Reminder: Apple, Google, Nintendo and Valve are the for-profit corporations a Slashdotter is permitted to like."

      Friendly Reminder: There are NO for-profit corporations that a self-respecting Slashdotter is permitted to like.

      Fixed that for you.

    9. Re:I'm confused. by Isaac+Remuant · · Score: 2

      Rule of Acquisition #1: People who quote rules of acquisition will never get laid.

      People who post anonymously about not getting laid have already given up... wait.. .what, damn........

      --
      "Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
  3. Does this mean Comcast is not evil? by blair1q · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Pirate Bay isn't exactly a possible source of revenue, so Comcast wouldn't have a good reason for throttling it, even if it soaks up bandwidth like a spark-gap transmitter.

    But Netflix? You have to wonder if Comcast would send the network engineers out first, or the bill collectors.

    1. Re:Does this mean Comcast is not evil? by Maxtastic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Comcast probably had 500+ calls in queue and were getting hammered on the issue by their customers. I am sure there was supervisor or manager in support that was driving them(Pirate Bay) to get this fixed and get the calls out of their queues.

    2. Re:Does this mean Comcast is not evil? by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You just might when you're convinced the ISP decided to block it.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    3. Re:Does this mean Comcast is not evil? by mysidia · · Score: 2

      Yeah, because when a single web site isn't working the first thing I do is call my ISP and ask them to go fix it.

      You're posting on slashdot self-selection. Remember... If 1% out of 10 million customers decide to call in, that's 100,000 people.

      Look, there are always some crazies that call in when $random_website is down. You'd probably be surprised at the massive volume of calls an ISP gets from farmville players if Facebook has a 60 minute outage.

      Suffice to say, the resounding answer is yes, people do that crap. And if the ISP isn't very tolerant of them, nice, helpful, and telling them they're doing something, they get irate, and maybe switch ISPs.

      Not only will they call in, but they'll demand an immediate fix. Even after the CSR respectfully informs them the circumstances and the ISP isn't responsible for the outage; apparently to joe consumer every ISP has a copy of every site on the internet, every ISP runs their copy of all websites, and if any site is broke, their ISP is to blame, and they are deserving a month's refund for their 2 hours of not being able to access $site_that_was_down.

      Also, good luck getting the customer to pay reasonable compensation for utilizing support's time for an issue the ISP's not liable for; "cost of doing business",.

      A similar bothersome artifact is website hosting customers calling the hosting service provider, claiming it's an emergency, to complain that their 'site is broken', or e-mail isn't working, and they want an immediate fix + refund + repair instructions; when the issue is their ISP connection is broken, or their ISP just started blocking port 25.
      In any case, they lack the skills, apparently to investigate/research what's happening, and immediately jump to accusatory blame of random providers, hoping yelling, cursing, and strong words, to whomever they don't have to spend an hour on hold to reach, will just make everything fix itself.

      Bonus points for cl00bies that call the emergency number of hosting providers at 3am on $1/month e-mail supported bulk hosting accounts to complain about ISP or user-inflicted issues such as broken software, issues that result from virus on computer, corrupt preference files, blue screen when opening mail client/booting computer, or plain inoperative mail client software, and demand the hosting provider treat as emergency and walk them through fixing their personal issue (without the user paying extra for 'computer repair' / 'personal assistance' not covered by $1/month bulk e-mail or web hosting agreement).

    4. Re:Does this mean Comcast is not evil? by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      The Pirate Bay isn't exactly a possible source of revenue, so Comcast wouldn't have a good reason for throttling it, even if it soaks up bandwidth like a spark-gap transmitter.

      Anything that causes customers to use copious amounts of data (be it torrenting or streaming video) is a potential source of revenue for an ISP that has transfer caps and overage fees.

  4. Seriously? by bky1701 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Serious Tubes Networks"? What is it, an ISP run by /b/tards?

    Although, really, it is rare to see a company, especially (like) Comcast, actually doing something good for users. Going out of their way to fix the connection to the Pirate Bay - that's a pretty ballsy move, and they should get some credit for it.

    1. Re:Seriously? by jaxtherat · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Serious Tubes Networks"? What is it, an ISP run by /b/tards?

      Looks that way! http://serioustubes.org/

      --
      http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
    2. Re:Seriously? by fred911 · · Score: 2

      ``I'd short my stocks in everything Internet-based right now``

      (OT) But first you have to sell your current stock, canÂt be short on something you posses. Then a tax issue....ect..

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    3. Re:Seriously? by silanea · · Score: 2
      Comcast did it not for the users but because
      1. they were likely drowning in support tickets about the issue, and "wontfix" would have left many of those affected with little desire to stay with Comcast;
      2. even if they would love to see TPB go down they will want to investigate and fix any unintentional connectivity problems - "evil" management aside, they still run a network for a living;
      3. they would be utterly retarded to hand any ammunition to the anti-monopoly/net neutrality camp right now by letting this issue stand or worse: not responding at all.

      Comcast did what any half-sane company would have done. They did not go out of their way, they simply did their job. Though I grant them that considering the state of consumer ISPs they did a really good job.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
  5. Of course Comcast "helped" TPB... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Funny

    Having TPB "down" seriously impacts the business model of the folks suing alleged p2p down-loaders. There for, it was ESSENTIAL that they have one of their proxies "help" TPB straighten out their issue. A lot of lawyers livelihood depends on TPB connectivity.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Of course Comcast "helped" TPB... by Lehk228 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      more like undermines comcast's business model, if you can't download phat warez why would you need a 5, 7, 10, or 15 megabit pipe? i have cheap ass-dsl 1.5megabit and i pay 30 bucks for it, i just play games and web browse online, no torrents so i don't need cable internet.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  6. Comcast Doesn't Need the Bad PR. by DrSlinky · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comcast has nothing to gain by blocking The Pirate Bay, and plenty to gain by helping address the filtering problem. By addressing, and helping to fix, the problem, Comcast has gained a little positive karma in the online community. By blocking The Pirate Bay, they'd only be buying more bad PR, while not actually doing anything to address the problem of torrent bandwidth usage. After all, block one torrent site, and users will just use another site.

  7. Outside my window by nurb432 · · Score: 2

    What was that.. a flying pig?

    I'm not one that blamed comcast out of the gate as i dont think they would ever stoop to that level, but this is really, um, surprising.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Outside my window by Seumas · · Score: 2

      Except they have stooped to that level in the recent past and after months of denying it, finally admitted it and were called to task for it by the FCC. That is precisely the reason why everyone jumped to the worst conclusion when everyone with Comcast was having trouble reaching TPB and everyone with another provider was (for the first many hours of the incident) not having a problem.

      If you're known as the neighborhood trouble-maker, it's your own damn fault if everyone looks accusingly at you the next time there is some trouble that you actually didn't make.

  8. COMCAST helped fix it?! by Scutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's terrific! When MY Comcast internet is down, it takes me two days on the phone just to get them to admit that there's a problem. Even when I tell them what the problem is and how to fix it, I STILL can't get them to fix it.

    --

    "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    1. Re:COMCAST helped fix it?! by Scutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To their credit, they don't listen to what random customers tell them to do over a support line. Even if they did listen to you and it ended up fixing the network, that'd be a dangerous precedent to set. This isn't a personal attack against you btw, sorry if it came across like that.

      I can appreciate that they don't know me from Adam and I don't expect them to take my advice about how to fix the problem, but when I tell them my cable is out, I don't want to hear "No, it isn't."

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    2. Re:COMCAST helped fix it?! by Jimmy+King · · Score: 2

      Have you ever called them? While you're correct that they can't just start making changes because the customer said so, if they understood how a network or the internet works they could understand what he's saying and start going through the proper channels to have things looked into. I've done my time in phone support roles, both public facing and internal, for multiple companies and that was true at all of them. When you call these guys it's pretty clear that they don't know how any of this stuff works or what any of it means and they just want to go through their scripted "troubleshooting" which they don't actually understand and get you off of the phone. One time when I tried to provide an example the support person had to go ask their supervisor what FTP is. Seriously.

      I've since given up. I just wait for the issue to get caught and corrected at the higher levels. Calling support doesn't get it fixed any faster but it sure does waste more of my time.

  9. Re:Wow by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why are you surprised? Do you think Comcast wants people to start pointing at them during net neutrality arguments, when their merger with NBC is still so controversial?

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  10. Engineers by jra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's who fixed this.

    I guarantee you that, just like in television and telephony, *once you get to the actual engineers*, they're really nice, sane, helpful people, who want to give you what you want to get, and are paying good money for (as long as you, yourself, are sane -- this is why there's 3 tiers of triage before you get to one).

    But their job is not to worry about content, it's to worry about transport.

    And, by and large, we don't.

  11. A whole food chain of idiots. by goodmanj · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm sick and tired of Slashdot editors blindly reposting everything that comes down the firehose without stopping to check whether articles are dupes, PR volleys, or just plain wrong.

    Look at it this way. Anyone in the chain of publication of the original story, from the orginal commenter on Engadget to Engadget's editors to the anonymous coward who submitted to Slashdot to the Slashdot editor who approved it, could have done what I did: "ping thepiratebay.org" from work, and find it was down outside of Comcastland too. Then they would have had a *real* headline: "Comcast falsely accused of jamming ThePirateBay."

    I hear that investigative journalism is too expensive for major news outlets to handle these days, so it's up to bloggers and websites to do the journalism. But when nobody can be bothered to type a 1-line bash command, what's left of the Fourth Estate is in deep shit.

    1. Re:A whole food chain of idiots. by Seumas · · Score: 5, Informative

      TPB was not down outside of Comcast land, initially. For several hours when the initial reports were being published online, nobody could reach TPB from Comcast, but they could useing a proxy or VPN and those on other networks could reach it. It wasn't until hours later that the same behavior started to appear on other networks. In light of those circumstances and prior Comcast behavior, it's not entirely irrational that people started to question if they were intentionally blocking them.

      So, no, what would have happened in your example is that someone with Comcast would have tried to reach TPB and failed. Then they'd ping it and fail. Then they'd login via another network and ping it and it would work.

  12. Re:Innocent until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    A nice, well-deserved boot in the face to everyone who prejudged, and who therefore should never be allowed onto a jury.

    I take it you've never got home from work one day and found port 80 http redirecting to a sad face and a message to call your ISP to get told off about stealing a movie from a company you've never heard of in a country you don't care about?

    You know what I said to them? Fuck you, prove it, and turn my internet on or I'm calling up your competitors.

  13. Re:Has to be a Honeypot by Seumas · · Score: 2

    Well, they're based in Sweden. Has Sweden enacted their own DMCA laws recently or something? If not, then of course they ignore them.

  14. did you visit slashdot.org/recent ? by decora · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and vote the story down?

    no?

    why not?

    how much time a day do you spend reading slashdot?

    now how much time to do you spend in the recent queue voting down crap stories?

    now, how about if i asked you to pay me to do this? would you pay? no?

    that's what i thought.

  15. Re:"Serious Tubes Networks" by The+Dawn+Of+Time · · Score: 2

    Well hey, on the upside, they are also incompetent.

  16. They were legally obligated to by iamacat · · Score: 2

    Otherwise they would lose protection as the common carrier and become responsible for all the content on their network. Syrian government is much more evil than the Pirate Bay, but you are still allowed to call them on the phone or look up their website on Google.

  17. Comcast did not help us fix The Pirate Bay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem was GBLX using reverse path filtering. We shut down one of our transits because it was flapping. The result was that all outgoing traffic to GBLX got filtered even though the packets took the same path as before. The Pirate Bay is using different paths for incoming and outgoing traffic to avoid beeing traced. We don’t even know where their servers are.

    Regards

    Magma Hindenburg
    CEO Serious Tubes Networks