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The Rise of Filter Bubbles

eldavojohn writes "Eli Pariser gave a talk at TED which posits that tailoring algorithms are creating 'filter bubbles' around each user, restricting the information that reaches you to be — unsurprisingly — only what you want to see. While you might be happy that your preferred liberal or conservative news hits you, you'll never get to see the converse. This is because Google, Facebook, newspaper sites and even Netflix filter what hits you before you get to see it. And since they give you what you want, you never see the opposing viewpoints or step outside your comfort zone. It amounts to a claim of censorship through personalization, and now that every site does it, it's becoming a problem. Pariser calls for all sites implementing these algorithms to embed in the algorithms 'some sense of public life' and also have transparency so you can understand why your Google search might look different than someone with opposing tastes." Hit the link below to watch a video of Pariser's talk.

75 of 408 comments (clear)

  1. Derhythmed by Rotworm · · Score: 3

    "I actually think most people don't want Google to answer their questions, [Eric Schmidt] elaborates. They want Google to tell them what they should be doing next."

    Google has mentioned a number of times that customization is a major feature of their searches. While this summary isn't without cause to be nervous about such a thing, instead of algorithms to correct algorithms, it's no major feat to allow users to disable some of the non-spam related algorithms. In fact, it's no major feat to disable algorithms by subcategory: geographical location, operating system, language, search history, etc.

    1. Re:Derhythmed by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it's no major feat to allow users to disable some of the non-spam related algorithms.

      It would be a major feat, however, to get users to actually exercise that option. Most of Google's users are clueless about these things, and so demanding that they opt-out is the wrong approach; rather, they should opt-in if they want their results filtered in that manner (not that someone who is educated enough to know about such options is likely to be someone who wants to close themselves off to other points of view).

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Derhythmed by Rotworm · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True, but if Bing will produce customized searches equivalent to holding a mirror up to someone's face, people might opt for Bing instead of Google's "high road." I agree with you that it's better for society to have an opt-in system, I just imagine it might be too risky for a company to implement such a system.
      These two systems revolve around how badly people want their mirrors.

    3. Re:Derhythmed by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      Between Google using "correct" algorithms, COICA meting into the PROTECT IP act to remove all traces of a site - what is going to be found?
      DMCA safe harbor provisions are still in place but will the PROTECT IP act lets sign of infringement be used more in court?
      Your comfort zone is what you will watch an ad for most of the time and a guess what will be found more and more ... better ads on sites you like.
      Any other content will drop off fast, never to be found again as the ad funded search is working just fine.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Derhythmed by priceslasher · · Score: 2

      In such instances the algorithm will detect that you are without bias and not filter accordingly?

    5. Re:Derhythmed by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Informative

      Blekko does exactly this. With their slash thingy you can search for "global warming" and only get the /liberal or /political or /scientific results - just want you already believe and want to be reaffirmed in.

      I know someone who works for Blekko.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    6. Re:Derhythmed by SilasMortimer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a good example. Equating socialism with a lack of liberty is a very good example of someone forming an opinion from 100% bias.

      Not that I'm a socialist, but this is a good way of showing that no one is immune, whatever platitudes they throw out to show that they're above it.

      --
      Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
    7. Re:Derhythmed by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      The algorithm does not know what political views you hold, it only knows what you choose to read.
      If you want to read opposing views, you should occasionally click on articles with opposing views.
      Apparently, not that many people (including the speaker) are really interrested in opposing views.

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    8. Re:Derhythmed by SilasMortimer · · Score: 2

      Why are so many people desperate for rivers and why can't they get it the normal way? Tears would make terrible river water.

      That thing that mussed your hair as you heard a "whoosh" sound is that people are generally unaware of it even when they do log in to Google. Posting as AC, I suppose it's entirely possible that you never actually log into an online account of some kind, but if you did, you'd probably know that there are things you are agreeing to things that you are aware of and possibly some things that you are not, but that if it's important enough to you to know, you can try to find out if that's the case. If you're not even sure there's something to look for however, you suddenly realize that your high horse is a pony and they're telling you to get off and give another kid a turn.

      --
      Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
    9. Re:Derhythmed by Arancaytar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just make it a third button next to "I'm Feeling Lucky":

      "Google Search | I'm Feeling Lucky | Confirm My Opinions"

    10. Re:Derhythmed by SilasMortimer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another good example: confusing freedom for liberty.

      For instance, you have both the freedom and the liberty to tell me to go fuck myself (you are able to do it and you are allowed to do it). You have the freedom, but not the liberty to hire some guys to come make me fuck myself (you are able to do it, but you are not allowed to do it). You have neither the freedom nor the liberty to make me do it yourself (your lack of freedom being your innate inability).

      To put it another way, you have the freedom to sneak into your neighbor's house when they're not there and take their valuables. As long as you find a way to do it, you have the freedom to do so. If you did it, the ability to maximize the benefits to you that result in your own actions would also imply freedom. However, liberty says you're a dickhead and the cops will do their best to find you and get you. Your neighbor has the freedom to find you and get you, too, however you would be fortunate in the fact that he does not quite have the liberty.

      You're welcome.

      --
      Omnes tuae crepidines sunt nobis sunt. Ascendo tuum!
    11. Re:Derhythmed by Dhalka226 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I agree that this sort of pre-filtered information over a societal level can become a problem, it's simply not the search engine's job to try to make us better rounded individuals. In fact it is against their interests.

      Their job to return the results a user is most likely to be interested in, and whether we want to admit it or not that includes taking whatever biases into account that they can muster. That doesn't mean filtering the results, but it should definitely be a part of the weighting. If Google did not do this, they are likely to actually lose money. Users are not getting the links they want most near the top of their results, therefore it's "working poorly" and any search engine that gives them what they want is a better algorithm, meaning they take their searches and the advertising dollars that go with them to someplace else. I'm not sure "we have half the users we did before, but they all read from a diverse set of sources!" is something to brag about. (Nor does not factoring bias into the weighting necessarily mean that they're going to read a diverse set of sources. Maybe they're just patient in clicking through to find what they're looking for.)

      It kind of reminds me of college. "You're treated like an adult! Everything is different!" That's what I heard going in, and I got there and was enraged to find out that I was going to spend two years dealing with "general education" requirements that have nothing to do with the things I want to learn. I spent the last 18 years of my life having people try to make me a well-rounded person. I'm an adult now, paying thousands of dollars a year in tuition. May I fucking choose what I see now? But that was years ago and I digress.

      The point is, search engines aren't about rounding our lives or our political influences. It's about returning the best possible results for my search as near to the top of the results list as possible. If I think Fox News is nothing but a bunch of idiotic, anti-intellectual, hypocritical shills and don't place any value in their results, then returning them at the top is a horrendous waste of my time.

      We should expose ourselves to a large variety of sources and influences, but it has to be by choice. I don't want anybody forcing it on me or deciding what those sources are.

    12. Re:Derhythmed by delinear · · Score: 2

      Nobody ever said "Don't be evil" was going to be easy. I don't recall them officially adding "... well, you can be a little evil if it means a competitive advantage."

    13. Re:Derhythmed by bhtooefr · · Score: 2

      Did you watch the video?

      There's still a bunch of inputs they use, even when you're logged out.

    14. Re:Derhythmed by qubezz · · Score: 2

      What's Bing?

      It's the sound of a machine in a Monty Python movie, I believe.

      Ned Ryerson! BING!

      .

    15. Re:Derhythmed by xnpu · · Score: 2

      But they did, it just never made it to your bubble ;-)

    16. Re:Derhythmed by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Their job to return the results a user is most likely to be interested in,

      No! Their job is to return the results most relevant to the query. If two people making the same query get different results, they are failing badly!

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    17. Re:Derhythmed by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      Of course the danger with this sort of filtering is when I am looking up a topic trying to find what the other side is saying and it doesn't occur to me to correct my search entry for that. Now that I think about it, that probably explains why I have so much trouble finding the original article on certain topics, Google is filtering to give me articles from sources which tend to agree with me and the original article I am looking for is in a source that I tend to disagree with. It is interesting that they do this, most of the time when I search for a politically charged topic, I am actually looking for an article written by people who disagree with me. I know where to go to get news information from a perspective that agrees with me.
      The danger with getting your news from sources that disagree with you philosphically is that they will frequently leave out facts that you consider to be critical, but that they consider irrelevant (or are a contraindication of their worldview). The danger of getting your news from sources which agree with you is that they may leave out facts that are contraindicative of their philosophy (or that they think are irrelevant), but that are necessary to understand how that particular story fits into the overall scheme of things. When I catch a news source that has a philosophy that I generally agree with leaving out facts because they don't fit the point they are trying to make, I stop using that source. I expect sources I disagree with to leave out facts which support my world view, so I always take thier stories with a grain of salt until I can find out what they left out.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  2. Definitely a serious problem by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Especially considering the natural tendency to discard information that is in contradiction to ones personal views on the world. If the actual inputs are then skewed to support that view, then it just gets even more extreme as a person tends to discard the more moderate views in favor of more extreme ones.

    1. Re:Definitely a serious problem by Alternate+Interior · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also seems like it's become impolite to disagree with people in your bubble. It's OK to agree, but if you disagree, you're supposed to remain silent. Same effect, but with the added bonus of breeding apathy.

    2. Re:Definitely a serious problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not that I care or anything, but you're wrong.

    3. Re:Definitely a serious problem by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately I've seen too much of this. One of the nice things about slashdot is actually the fact that the readers are not segregated politically. It's clearly not a typical political cross-section, but it's diverse enough where it's possible to politely disagree - or defend yourself with hot grits.

    4. Re:Definitely a serious problem by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 2

      So the decision to watch one channel over the other has moved to cyberspace? Color me shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

      Next, you'll tell me people are self-selecting their tv channels, or friends. Lord help us if people can select their friends.

      Or religions, that would be bad.

    5. Re:Definitely a serious problem by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "One of the nice things about slashdot is actually the fact that the readers are not segregated politically."

      Yes slashdot is segregated politically at least when it comes to mods. Most of them have american viewpoints (i.e. pro capitalist, pro free market, pro libertarian, anti-left). Slashdot is heavily weighted towards americanized views of things.

    6. Re:Definitely a serious problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At least the part of the internet that you see.

    7. Re:Definitely a serious problem by Mandrel · · Score: 2

      Also seems like it's become impolite to disagree with people in your bubble. It's OK to agree, but if you disagree, you're supposed to remain silent.

      You're quite right. Criticize something, no matter how constructively, and you're a "hater". Clicking the "Dislike" button on a YouTube video is regarded as a hostile act.

    8. Re:Definitely a serious problem by blahplusplus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Have you somehow managed to miss every article slashdot has ever posted about the RIAA?"

      Copyright is protectionism by another name, and hence NOT capitalist.

    9. Re:Definitely a serious problem by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 2

      pro libertarian, anti-left). Slashdot is heavily weighted towards americanized views of things.

      Oh, really? Every time someone mentions libertarianism, you get some ass hat mentioning Somalia as a libertarian paradise, hardly what I would call pro libertarian. Anti-left? That hasn't been true since 2000. There's a reason this place is called Kosdot by long time readers.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    10. Re:Definitely a serious problem by brit74 · · Score: 2

      Copyright establishes a market for digital goods (which would otherwise be all-free, and therefore a waste of time to create), hence copyright is capitalist.

    11. Re:Definitely a serious problem by CycleMan · · Score: 2

      The problem is definitely circles. You can't take sides in a circle, as their only discernable sides are an INside and an OUTside. If we outlaw all circles, and allow only polygons with less-than-infinite sides, then people within the polygon can take sides instead of just agreeing with everyone. Problem solved.

  3. is anybody out there? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 3, Funny

    is this post filtered? hello? ha looow?

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:is anybody out there? by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      is this post filtered? hello? ha looow?

      Yes. I didn't see it.

  4. I'm bombarded.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm bombarded with the opposing view constantly. Because most all of the media is biased towards the Left in this country, and any attempt to represent the majority opinions (Conservatives - just check the Battleground Poll, question D3) is met with howls of protest and ad hominem attack. I have to actively seek news and information that represents my views because none of the major services ever send it to me. This article is mostly disinformation.

    1. Re:I'm bombarded.... by Microlith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      any attempt to represent the majority opinions (Conservatives - just check the Battleground Poll, question D3) is met with howls of protest and ad hominem attack.

      But what branch of "conservatives" are you seeking the opinion of? Rational ones, or the nutty Fox News/Free Republic/Breitbart kind whose existence is defined not by conservatism but preying on people by spreading lies, half truths, and blind worship of a specific political party?

      There are valid "Conservative" opinions out there, but they are by far drowned out by the loud and very politically active nutter branch that calls themselves "conservative."

    2. Re:I'm bombarded.... by myotheridislower · · Score: 2

      You're modded Funny, so I'm glad most people got that this was sarcasm, but for those who don't, conservative opinion has become the norm, at least in American major news outlets. Conservatives dominate cable news (Fox is the most watched), radio (a dozen or so popular conservative opinion shows with a greater audience than anything the left has), print (what's left of print anyway, The Wall Street Journal, NYT is now also owned by News Corp.), the internet (Drudge, et al). The insanity is that despite almost complete blanket control of every media outlet in the nation, they repeat the lie that conservative views are oppressed so often and so urgently that many people fall for it. It's akin to Christians in the US (the vast majority of people) complaining that they are an oppressed minority beset on all sides by various powerful groups that are actively seeking their persecution. It's just not happening.

      --
      The Pirate Bay is my App Store.
    3. Re:I'm bombarded.... by dbc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, the thing that is most hurting political discourse in the USA is that the nutter branches on *both* the left and the right are controlling the conversation... er... shouting match. I'm tired of the nutter left's frothing, angry, invective that is targeted at anyone who disagree with them. And I'm tired of the right's white-washing of the subtle complexities in the problems that we face. Political discussions have become a discourteous shouting match between pseudo-intellectuals on the left and anti-intellectuals on the right. Where has thought gone?

      Fortunately, I have discovered a reliable filter to identify nutters. Present raw data and see how people react. If the person gets angry, it says volumes about the person and their agenda. Raw data has no agenda. A person who has a non-linear, non-thoughtful response to raw data should be avoided like toxic waste.

    4. Re:I'm bombarded.... by larkost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know that media orgainizations that describe themselves as "conservaive" love to paint everyone else as "liberal" or "left", but that is just not the case, and it seems you have fallen into their trap of viewig life as polar ("liberal" vs. "conservative"). That polarized view is nearly antithtical to the ideal of democracy, especially democracy as espoused by the framers of our Constitution. To quote Tommas Jefferson:

      ". . . whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that, whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them right."

      The "main stream" media has been deliberately neutral for a very long time (despite having overwhelming "conservative" ownership). We have not had truely polarized mainstream media since William Randolph Hurst was alive and in control of a lot of the media. Note that this stands in stark contrast to the media in Europe, where party affiliation is usually blatantly obvious to all concerned (see Silvio Berlusconi's massive ownership in the Italian new media).

      Both durring Hurst's lifetime, as well as in Europe today you see poitics played as a "old boys club" (see the current German Wutbürger movements) with people falling into parties with wide political moats between them. The US system in contrast has historically had two main partites that mostly share the same political ideology, and work very hard to demonstrate their differences on a limited number of areas, with many of their party members holding some views (and voting for those views) in direct contradition to their partie's political planks. To me the latter is a healthy democracy that has had time to come to a gerneral concensus about things.

      Fox News and "talk radio" (both sides, but talk radio is dominated by "conservatives") seem to want to take us back to the "bad old days" where facts don't matter. As an example Fox News viewers have been repeatedly found to think that weapons of mass destruction were found durring the Iraq invation thus justifying the invation. 33% of regular Fox viewers reported this as fact. And then we have the underhanded "we don't know" reporting about Predident Obama's place of birth. We were long past the point where there was legitmate cause for discussion on that issue long before the election took place. Yet the Fox "News" channel kept that flame burning. This blatent focus on patizenship at the expense of truely informing their viewership is underhanded, shamefull, and toally destructive to a working democracy.

      Don't ask news organizations to present "news and information that represents my views", because that is propoganda. Ask them to diligently and ernestly report news as factually and hosnestly as they can. Those two requests are diametriaclly opposed. It is sad to see a political movement who couches their idology so much on the ideas of the founders of this country (the Tea Party), so massivly get the basic ideas of those same men so wrong.

    5. Re:I'm bombarded.... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That poses the problem of what raw data properly represents the problem at hand. Ideology tries to boils down the complexity of real systems to a single ideological approach to solving them. It's not that real data is bad, only that real data requires years of research and multiple PhD's to grasp to any degree, and even then the best you have is an understanding of what the data says, not what good policy is about the data.

      As a simple example, one can fairly easily find statistics on how much the US spends per capita on healthcare (vs other countries), as a percent of GDP, etc... and then health outcomes. Ok.. so the system is bad, raw data proves a point but provides no solution, since the questions is 'what should the healthcare system be' not 'what should it not be'. Good job proving the system is bad. Politics and ideology is 'what system should we implement, how do we massage that into a system we can implement, and how many votes will it get/cost me?'

      The economy is another great example. You have GDP, GDP/c, median incomes, gini indices, etc. You can look at real data about what other countries do to. But there are a plethora of experts with PhD's in economics who can't agree on what a good gini index is, or how to get to whatever a good number is. So what does look at the raw data get you exactly? An opportunity for 4 years of poorly paid research to earn a doctorate which shows you know more about the problem than the average bloke, but not how to fix it.

      And that assumes real data exists for your problem. Which, in many cases, it doesn't (the US wealth gap for example doesn't really map to other historical situations if you are trying to ask the question 'why', as it ties in deeply to foreign ownership and investment, education etc.). Data can guide an ideological approach, but by itself raw data rarely maps to implementable policies in anything other than an ideologically biased fashion.

    6. Re:I'm bombarded.... by Unkl_Shvelven · · Score: 2

      He wasn't saying that raw data would provide a solution, just that someone's reaction to the raw data is a good indicator of their level-headedness.

      --
      regular man whom love computer (Also, fuck beta).
    7. Re:I'm bombarded.... by Loopy · · Score: 2

      Anti-intellectuals on the right? Honey, I grew up in Louisiana where anti-intellectualism is a secondary religion, and I've yet to meet one of those that voted republican/independent or called themselves right/conservative.

    8. Re:I'm bombarded.... by WarwickRyan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A couple of points:

      1) You can't really group "Europe" together like that. Sure, in countries such as Germany, Italy and The Netherlands you see parties which are closer to their idiologic roots than in the US. But in the UK that's not the case: there are but two real parties (the liberals have in the last year proven themselves pointless), and they're fairly similar policy wise.

      2) A lot of Western Europe (Germany, Italy, Netherlands etc) have many differing political parties getting together to form coalition governments. This is why you see media targeting specific niches. Here in Netherlands we've got free-market, socialist, communist, pseudo-fascist, green & animal parties.

      3) "Europe" (the EU) is similar in size to "America". If we compare them politically at that level (i.e. EU vs US) then they're not really that different. Except the average European has less of a say in who, exactly gets to represent them, and the EU has a lot less power over the member countries than Washington does over the States.

    9. Re:I'm bombarded.... by wrook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a funny thing. I agree with you that the mainstream media portrays a mostly consistent message. I also agree with you that the two main parties "mostly share the same political ideology, and work very hard to demonstrate their differences on a limited number of areas". But I kind of get lost after that.

      I'm not an American, so my perspective may be skewed, but I see American media as not being neutral per se. I see them as following the same political ideology that both of the main parties do. From the perspective of portraying party agenda, I suppose that is neutral. But I tend to notice a definite American ideological bias in the reporting. No reporting can be truly neutral, but especially for foreign affairs issues, the media portrays issues without an attempt to explain opposing points of view. This isn't neutral from my perspective.

      What is even more interesting is when discussing the few issues in which the two parties diverge, the media tends to present a polarised view without actually taking sides. Well, in fairness to the OP, I often feel that the Democrat side of the issue is often portrayed in a somewhat softer light. But like you say, it's not anything like reporting in some other countries. Both sides are portrayed to some extent. However, they are portrayed in such a way as if they are polar opposites. It's like there are only two solutions to everything: the Democrat way and the Republican way. It not only makes it appear that the two sides are much farther apart than I think they are, but that there can't possibly be any other solution than those two.

      When I discuss politics with my American friends I always have to preface the discussion with a definition of right and left. Their view of left is still way over into the right for me. If I say that I don't agree with one point of view, I get a huge amount of grief about how the other party has ruined whatever it is we're talking about. But if I say that I don't agree with something both parties agree on people often stare at me like I must be completely insane.

      Coming back to the point, I often find that Americans are already getting this filtered media where they are only presented with issues that the two parties disagree on. They enjoy this view because it is simple, fits their preconceived notions of the world, but still gives them something to argue about. If I am very cynical I might even say that it gives them the illusion of choice at election time.

      Of course, I am also biased and I am presented with news conforming to my views and confirming my biases. What made me interested about your post was that we both viewed the starting conditions similarly and yet came to dramatically different conclusions, probably based on those biases. Very interesting, indeed.

    10. Re:I'm bombarded.... by coaxial · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What nutty group on the left is controlling the conversation? Seriously. Who?

      Have not noticed how far to the kooky right the "center" of contemporary political discourse has come? Even a recent Pew Research poll (click: "politics and elections," then "support for compromise") showed that 70% of "solid liberals" (supposedly the leftmost group) wanted to compromise with those they disagreed with, while 79% of "staunch conservatives" (the rightmost group) wanted to "stick to their positions." You can see the political ratchet right there.

    11. Re:I'm bombarded.... by f3r · · Score: 3, Informative

      "...nutter branches on *both* the left and..."

      Lol. Left in the US? that's so much fun....even in Europe you have a hard time to find the left. We are so used that capitalism 'works well' during the last decades that we forgot what the Left is.

    12. Re:I'm bombarded.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm bombarded with the opposing view constantly. Because most all of the media is biased towards the Left in this country, and any attempt to represent the majority opinions (Conservatives - just check the Battleground Poll, question D3) is met with howls of protest and ad hominem attack.

      I have to actively seek news and information that represents my views because none of the major services ever send it to me.

      This article is mostly disinformation.

      From an S. American and European point of view, your left wing media is the extreme right and your right wing media is also the extreme right. The difference between left and right in USA is so small that nobody outside USA understand what the fuzz is about (unless, of course, when some political group for some mysterious reasons hate immigrants or some ethnic groups, but the only mayor ideological difference between those political US fractions is what ethnicities they favour). If you want a broader view and less bias in media, I recommend you to follow European and S. American news media, not only would you get opinions just slightly right to what is common in US media (what you call the extreme right, not only libertarians but even nazis and fascists), you will also get those "leftist" opinions that is the majority view (the political centre view) of the rest of the Democratic world and that is never, ever reported in US media.

      Of course, that would require you to overcome the most effective filter bubble, the language barriers. Even though all Germanic and Latin languages are very similar to English (most of them contain a subset that cover most of the English language), English speakers seem to have extreme difficulties in understanding, or learning to understand, them. But on the other hand, listeners to English that don't have English as a first language, usually understand English better then a listener that have English as a first language, but come form an other part of the world then the one speaking. The different parts of the English speaking world don't seem to communicate much and most English speakers have never communicated with other English speakers outside their small geographic/cultural bubble and have never learned to assimilate even small differences in language.

    13. Re:I'm bombarded.... by delinear · · Score: 2

      But in the UK that's not the case: there are but two real parties (the liberals have in the last year proven themselves pointless), and they're fairly similar policy wise.

      Amen to that. Our choice is basically between the group of people who want to give all the power to their friends in government at the expense of the populace and the group of people who want to give all the power to their friends in the private sector at the expense of the populace. Neither are interested in true democracy or the will of the people (see the sham referendum on the voting system recently for evidence - our only choices are either the old broken system or a different but equally broken system? well gee, thanks for giving us a choice...)

    14. Re:I'm bombarded.... by fredrated · · Score: 2

      I think it is more a case of "the stupid are strong in their certainty, the intelligent are weak in their uncertainty".
      As for 'solid liberals' you don't know a damn thing about solid liberals but are certain in your stupidity.

  5. Re:Not just online filters.... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2

    We have similar political leanings

    Really? My family is a counter-example to that.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  6. Why Not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They talk about this like it's a bad thing, but why would I, as a member of $Ideology_1 want to waste my time listening to the lies of $Ideology2..N?

  7. commingle a problem by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wish I could view Slashdot via a filter bubble that would omit or correct dupes, slashvertisements, blogspam and obvious spelling mistakes.

    1. Re:commingle a problem by jd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Bubbles tend to be spherical, but you require something more fractal in nature.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:commingle a problem by syousef · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wish I could view Slashdot via a filter bubble that would omit or correct dupes, slashvertisements, blogspam and obvious spelling mistakes.

      You can!!! Just replace slashdot.org with about:blank in your address bar.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  8. Re:Fairness doctrine? by countertrolling · · Score: 2

    ...shouldn't the government step in and make sure you get what they feel you REALLY need to see.?

    They're working on it

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  9. good or bad depending. by qwerty8ytrewq · · Score: 2
    This is only an issue when it is invisible, or out of your control. When I watch a trashy movie, I want a filter on everything else. When I go to news feeds, social sites, I want a challenge, many do not. they just want to not be bored. All this is only a problem if one treats Google, Fbook etc as being a 'true' and 'correct' view of the world. any monoply supply leads to this kind of problem.

    The issue here is that these big algorythms are actually tuned to collect and hold and direct attention of users as first priority. Not to hand out accurate info, advice, wisdom, world views etc. I think It is easy to forget that " free " on the net actually means "you pay us with your valuable attention".

    This is really interesting stuff... good book that I am reading (too early to review it sorry) http://cliftonchadwick.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/is-the-internet-changing-the-way-you-think-book-review/

    --
    Waiting for the other shoe to...
  10. surf anonymously by swell · · Score: 2

    You aren't labeled.

    Yes I'm sure that many secretly like to be labeled. Part of the social thing I suppose. Can't blame the web sites for that.

    "Well I'm alone, I've got to clone" -Barney

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  11. 2002 called, it wants its fears back by jalefkowit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While you might be happy that your preferred liberal or conservative news hits you, you'll never get to see the converse. This is because Google, Facebook, newspaper sites and even Netflix filter what hits you before you get to see it. And since they give you what you want, you never see the opposing viewpoints or step outside your comfort zone. It amounts to a claim of censorship through personalization and now that every site does it, it's commingle a problem.

    This would be a pretty avant-garde line of thinking if there hadn't been an entire book written about it nine years ago ...

    1. Re:2002 called, it wants its fears back by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 4, Funny

      2002 called? Did you warn them?

  12. Confirmation bias, confirmation bias everywhere by poity · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_polarization#The_Internet
    We though greater connectivity would broaden our horizons, but it has only made us more narrow minded. And we have only ourselves to blame. I feel the way to combat this is to go outside (gasp) and meet/befriend local people of various backgrounds, and to seek to empathize more and to judge less. I know being judgmental is a rather common bad habit for for self-professed "nerds", and one that's hard to walk away from, but dammit please just try. Society has been going down this slippery slope for quite some time now and it will get worse the more we let the current carry us.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  13. Visible and Optional v Invisible and On-By-Default by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 3, Informative

    Having these filters as an option is a good thing; that's just a tool you can use to refine a search.

    Having them on by default and invisible (or obfuscated) is not. In this case, information is being hidden from searchers who may not even realize that filtering is taking place.

    The TED page for the speech has a transcript for those who don't have sound, or just don't want to sit through a nine-minute video.

  14. That's what Pariser described by TrekkieGod · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Would it exacerbate the problem, or merely hide it? Discarding information that contradicts currently held beliefs is natural enough that most people aren't aware of it, even without personalized search algorithms. I think the bigger issue is the ready availability of like-minded communities that will reinforce your beliefes, no matter how outrageous and outlandish they are.

    In his presentation he gave an interesting example. He says he leans liberal, but has conservative friends in facebook, because he's interested in their viewpoint. Then he started noticing that he stopped seeing news links from his conservative friends because the facebook algorithm noticed he didn't click on them. Basically, despite saying that he's interested in the opposing viewpoint, he actually isn't, and was filtering the information himself. The algorithm merely made it transparent and more convenient. Nothing actually changed about the information he was consuming.

    It is a problem that people tend to ignore information when it goes against their preconceived notions, but it's not a problem that technology does what we want it to do. If a website kept bombarding me with stories that I didn't want to see, I'd stop visiting it, I wouldn't suddenly start reading those stories.

    On second thought, I'm reminded of every April 1st on slashdot, and how every story is bombarded by comments from idiots saying how much they hate slashdot on April Fools' day, and yet they don't seem to leave even for that one day. They keep reading every story and then talking about how much they hate it. Maybe you can make people read what they don't want to read after all...

    --

    Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    1. Re:That's what Pariser described by TrekkieGod · · Score: 2

      Not clicking on them doesn't mean you're not interacting with them. Here's an example: there's a bunch of /. articles where I just read the summary of the article on the front page, without clicking through to read the comments.

      Does that mean I want slashdot to stop showing me story summaries in the genres I'm not actively clicking on? No, absolutely not.

      Are you sure? That depends on how sophisticated the algorithm is. After all, you did say the front page. Why aren't you browsing the firehose? Because the info you receive is already plenty filtered, it just so happens that it's not filtered in a personalized fashion. For all you know, a personalized front page would mean that a whole lot more articles interesting to you would show up that were submitted to the firehose but never would have made it to the front page under the current system.

      Generally speaking, a balance is going to be kept between increasing the signal to noise ratio and filtering out too much information. If a website filters out too much information, then you start to feel like your news website isn't reporting on all news, and you start visiting other websites to complement or even completely replace the original site (and every website wants to avoid that, so generally they err on allowing some stories through that you're really almost never interested in). It's also important to note that the information isn't being kept from you, it's just that there's some much information available that technology is trying to do a better job of prioritizing it for you. If you have 2000 friends on facebook and you never click on Bob's links, then facebook stops showing you links from Bob. However, you can always wonder, "what is Bob up to?" and go to his wall. Same thing with Google. If you search Egypt and no information about the conflict shows up, then it means that generally speaking you're not a reader of current events. If you were, however, interested in finding information about Egypt and current events, you'd do your search on news.google.com, and I guarantee you that the information would be there.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    2. Re:That's what Pariser described by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      This entire debate assumes that it is impossible to deliver news without bias. Every story has to have a liberal or conservative slant. I disagree, it is entirely possible to report simply the known facts. The reader can then reach their own conclusions.

      Of course the media won't do that because dry facts don't get clicks or sell papers. The BBC used to do it but in the past decade has changed to opinion and analysis instead of mere reporting. As an example take how political speeches are presented. Once upon a time they would show exerts of the speech at length, allowing the viewer to evaluate what was said themselves. Now they give you a maximum 3 second soundbite and then the reporter talks at length, giving their opinion and analysis of what was said.

      The BBC has argued that people like this kind reporting, which is basically saying that people are too dumb to understand and have to be told what to think. Sometimes they do street interviews with the public to prove their point. I think this is a very dangerous thing to do because it allows people to be dumb and still feel that their opinion is valuable and worthy of being presented to the entire nation, where as it would be better if people did feel a bit thick when they didn't understand and were thus motivated to either learn more about the subject or simply not hold strong opinions on it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:That's what Pariser described by Monoman · · Score: 2

      I usually don't click on external links on sites like FB. I tend to copy/paste links into another tab so I can see the URL. Just an odd habit of mine after seeing the many ways to goatse/rickroll people.

      --
      Keep the Classic Slashdot.
    4. Re:That's what Pariser described by BZ · · Score: 2

      Note that even if you just stick to reporting "known facts" your choice of which exact facts to report will nearly always bias the reporting. And you can't report "all the facts", because you have limited time.

  15. Self-filter Bubble by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the nice things about slashdot is actually the fact that the readers are not segregated politically.

    True, but the more important thing, I think, is that over the years I have often (but not always) discovered that opposing ideas I find on Slashdot have some merit behind them. Hence when someone says something I think it wrong I will often trust it enough to check into it a little and see whether I need to re-evaluate my position. This is why I like Slashdot.

    However when reading some random website and encountering something contradictory I am far more likely to assume that the author was some random idiot that doesn't understand what they are talking about than I am to re-evaluate my position simply because experience has shown that this is the most probable case. Hence I would argue that the biggest problem is not so much a "filter bubble" but more that when you hear a dissenting voice you are unlikely to believe it because you do not trust it to be right...although I suppose you could call that a self-filter bubble.

    1. Re:Self-filter Bubble by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      Thank goodness Slashdot has a somewhat informed audience so even opposing standpoints are articulated in a way that you can discuss and that may even give you some insight into that opinion. Most other sites (CNN, USA Today etc) are moron cesspools by comparison.

    2. Re:Self-filter Bubble by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      [T]he more important thing, I think, is that over the years I have often (but not always) discovered that opposing ideas I find on Slashdot have some merit behind them. Hence when someone says something I think it wrong I will often trust it enough to check into it a little and see whether I need to re-evaluate my position. This is why I like Slashdot.

      The reason I like slashdot is because there is a larger than normal proportion of usesr (such as yourself) who at least attempt to practice the most important yet most difficult part of being a genuine skeptic, ie: self-skepticisim.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:Self-filter Bubble by metacell · · Score: 3, Funny

      You, sir, seem like a sensible and insightful fellow. Do you have a blog where I can confirm more of my... um, I mean, read more of your opinions?

  16. Re:Not news. Opinion. by bky1701 · · Score: 2

    There isn't really such a thing as unbiased news. I've been seeing an effect more and more - perfectly non-biased stories being selected in such a way as to create positive or negative portrayals, all while not actually injecting any bias into the stories themselves. The Drudge Report is a great example. It seems non-biased. I mean, how could it be biased? It links to other sites! Yet, if you take a close look at the stories selected, especially the photo stories... you start to see a pattern.

    The real bias in news now is in selection, not confusing opinion with news. Passing off opinion as news does happen, of course, but it is not the real danger. People who watch channels like Fox News already have a decision and want it to be reinforced. It is the covert bias in selection which is a real danger.

  17. The thinking man... by Genda · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The human animal is designed to filter information. You have billions of nerve endings pouring information into your brain, and it does a brilliant job of consolidating that information into a general perception of physical reality which is still further pared down by attention, belief, expectation, focus, and emotional state. At any given moment you are present to some infinitesimal amount of truth limited by time, space, and your state of mind. To presume that any point of view has more that a circumstantial amount of real truth in it is hubris on the verge of egomania. Plato's Cave should be taught to kindergarteners, and the lesson reinforced at every grade until achieving one's doctoral degree.

    Perhaps then, we might finally put an end to people who so committedly believe their own point of view and further feel obligated to shove that belief down the throats of others. That goes for positions on the left, right, and stranger points not on the standard plane of sociopolitics.

    A wise soul would surround him/herself with people from many walks and perspectives. Read writing from desperate perspectives. Take everything with a grain of salt. Bring rigorous logic, critical thought and honest skepticism to everything one hears, sees and reads. It takes genuine rigor to manage a healthy intellectual diet. Even more these days when most of the common forms of information and media have fallen into the hands to the same Plutocrats and Corporate Thugs who've worked so diligently to hijack our government. Disagreement is healthy. So is debate. Its only through the process of ideas and perspectives banging up against one another and subjecting our ideas to broad inquiry that any meaningful truth may be discovered.

    If you live in a filter bubble, you poison yourself with intellectual monoculture. Monoculture is inherently unstable, unsustainable and doomed to collapse. Challenge yourself, assume you are mistaken, and look for evidence to prove it. You will find it. There is always evidence to support antithesis. When you can own that there are countless sides to any argument, you can actually begin to pursue the truth as is it, not just an intellectual self justification. The truth is hardly ever, easy, simple or exactly what you expect or believe. Its only advantage is that it is in fact the truth. Pursuing truth demands courage and dedication, perhaps that's why there are so few people who've dedicated themselves to finding truth, and why they're so revered.

    1. Re:The thinking man... by Rakishi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A reader of Less Wrong by any chance? If not I recommend you look into it.

      I agree with your points as a philosophical ideal but I just don't think they'd ever work for more than a niche number of people.

      Plato's Cave should be taught to kindergarteners, and the lesson reinforced at every grade until achieving one's doctoral degree.

      And most people wouldn't comprehend it or they'd draw the wrong conclusion from it. Remember, half of the world has an IQ under 100. I suspect many other are simply not wired for properly comprehending it although I can't be certain (if religion is due to genetics for example *shrug*). And blind belief is reassuring, we do not wish to be wrong and not seeing the counter-argument achieves that. As you said it requires rigor and, frankly, just look at the average American.

      Monoculture is inherently unstable, unsustainable and doomed to collapse.

      But until it does it will overcome and consume anything in it's way. Not always but often enough especially if it's not against another monoculture. That is the power of blind belief. It doesn't pause or stop or redirect or reconsider. Eventually it will die but the alternatives won't be around to see it.

  18. I did run into a problem with Google... by korgitser · · Score: 2

    There was this guy on a forum and I was trying to find him some introductory links on soft/fake raid. But google only presented me advanced and technical results... I had to get behind another IP to find the entry-level information. I suppose google has a good grip on me - i have had a static IP for some years now, with mostly just one browser signature around, and on top of that I'm usually logged in to the google account. I do not have much of a problem with that - personalised results really are a time-saver when I'm hunting for myself. But, as has been noted, there are downsides and so there really should be a toggle on the feature.

    --
    FCKGW 09F9 42
  19. There's an underlying question here by DanielSmedegaardBuus · · Score: 2

    Are we capable of processing and relating to the currently available amount of (diverging) information?

    If this issue is a backwards trend, it's one that is only possible because in a reality which has been shaped by the preceding two decades where we've seen a trend with exposure us to an increasing, almost infinite, amount of information.

    The core human instinct is to seek and relate to similar peers. We need a "home base" to feel safe, where the things that worry us in some way relate more directly to ourselves and the close peers we identify ourselves with. I don't think we're *really* cognitively equipped to relate to and empathize with an entire world of differing opinions, cultures, and problems.

    It's an ideal that must be pursued, because I agree with Eli that we may be digging ourselves (willingly as well as unwillingly) into these "bubbles" of safe havens where we aren't questioned, provoked or adequately challenged. Especially since I believe that knowingly or unknowingly, we all seek these bubbles for the same reason that all this information exists: We simply cannot cope with the sheer magnitude of it. Processing information properly requires relating to it, be it global warming, riots in Lybia and neighboring countries, death camps in North Korea, radiation from Fukushima, US foreign policies, local elections, slaughterings in Darfur, Palestine and Israel, starving children in Africa, Indian workers killing themselves for pennies making our clothes... The list goes on and on, and just writing this fraction of events down which we're all supposed to relate to, makes me want to crawl into a bubble.

    So yes, we should make sure that these algorithms don't aide us in our instinct to reclude ourselves, but a 9-minute talk is nothing but a baby step in even explaining the magnitude of the task at hand.

  20. You insensitive clod! by Kludge · · Score: 2

    As someone who works for the MPAA, likes using IE6 and having my junk touched by the TSA, I find slashdot very one sided.

  21. Re:But by Hatta · · Score: 2

    Both of those are real problems, but they are both more easily fixed than implementing a mind reader on Google's end, and they both have less severe consequences than fragmentation of the internet.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!