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Powerline Networks Interfere With Spooks?

An anonymous reader writes "Powerline technology which ships network data over mains cables could be causing interference for spies, according to a letter from the UK's top secret listening station, GCHQ. However, the British regulator says that objections to powerline all come from radio amateurs — and a Google search reveals that the writer of the letter (which GCHQ seems to be disowning) comes from a ham."

15 of 85 comments (clear)

  1. Could it be... by airconswitch · · Score: 5, Funny

    SENTRY SAPPIN' MY SPY?

  2. Here's the "original" release by chemicaldave · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is the original GCHQ release mentioned in TFA.

  3. Re:Rasicm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While "spook" is a rather old and controversial term to refer to a person of color, the term "spook" is more often associated with spies and counterintelligence. Most Slashdot users will find this headline perfectly acceptable since racism is likely not their first impression. On the other hand, only someone looks for racism around every corner or someone who has racism in the very forefront of their minds would bother to make a big deal about this.

    I suggest you move on, and learn how to spell properly - your title caption is spelled wrong.

  4. Re:SheevaPlug "jammers" by v1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is just begging for someone to come up with a SheevaPlug-style jammer that dumps random onto your power lines.

    Unfortunately, lots of household appliances already do that.

    Looking at the above comments, I think a lot of readers are interpreting it as the 'spies' are using the power lines as antennas. It's more like coax. Like those baby monitors you plug in the receiver in the bedroom by the crib, and plug in the receiver in the kitchen/living room/bedroom, and set it to one of several provided channels, and it uses the power wires within your house to help carry the signal. This has the advantages of using very little power, providing very clean audio, and works anywhere in the house with no loss in power. And also doesn't radiate much.

    But if a spy sticks a wall wart in an outlet in a room with a bug in it, it can transmit easily to several other houses in the neighborhood with a receiver plugged into the wall in the same way. There are also bugs like that which are integrated into the outlets themselves so you don't even see them from the outside. Traditional over-the-air bug sweepers have a harder time finding them because the transmissions are very low power, because the transmitter and receiver's antennas are basically touching.

    It'd depend on the receiver being used, the frequency chosen, and a lot of other factors, as to just how much BBOPL interferes with such a device. I'm sure some wouldn't be affected while others would be rendered useless.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  5. Encapsulation by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 4, Funny

    Isnt there a way to digitise HAM radio, encapsulate it and transmit it over IP?

    HAM over IP would be the solution to most of the interference problems

    1. Re:Encapsulation by Xacid · · Score: 2

      In the true spirit of Ham we should call it:

      Ham Accessing Lined Fiber for Asynchronous Signal Switching - Error Detection.

      It's almost recursive too. ;)

    2. Re:Encapsulation by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      Are you kidding or really don't get it. Amateur radio is about the radio part of it. And yes there are repeaters that are linked by IP but the point is to use the radio. Also what good does that do if you are trying to communicate from a boat in the middle of the Atlantic or some place with no Cell service or Internet?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Encapsulation by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 2

      I mean it was intended to be a joke, but people took it seriously somehow :)

  6. Violation of treaty by Caerdwyn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are international treaties concerning radio interference. Among the provisions of these treaties are sections defining amateur radio frequencies which are not to be assigned to other usage or interfered with. If power line communications interferes with amateur radio and emergency radio services, the country in question is in noncompliance with the treaties involved. The governing body of these treaties is the International Telecommunications Union; the United States and the United Kingdom are both signatories. (actually, almost every country on Earth is, with the non-signatories being North Korea and their ilk)

    In the United States at least, treaties come immediately after the Constitution in being the highest law of the land (the Supremacy Clause). Depending upon where you are, your kilometerage may vary.

    --
    Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
    1. Re:Violation of treaty by brainboyz · · Score: 2

      Except it's not. Treaties don't override the Constitution and any interference between the two would have to meet the same requirements as an amendment addition to be valid in the US. If they're found to be non-constitutional, they're invalidated.

    2. Re:Violation of treaty by sjames · · Score: 2

      SCOTUS is out of it's mind. The Constitution is the one and only delegation of governing authority from the people to the federal government. Without it, they're just an occupying force. Therefor, they cannot have any power to negotiate anything that voids the Constitution as they would void themselves in the process.

      That's not to say it isn't being done anyway since the Constitution is being systematically voided anyway, but it doesn't make it right or even acceptable.

  7. Strange Story by locallyunscene · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So GCHQ’s spectrum manager wrote this letter on official letterhead in March and somehow released or leaked it. The GCHQ claims it was not an official document, and insinuates as a ham operator the spectrum manager was trying to further his own hobby's agenda. The UK ham operators lobbyist group "Ban Power Line Technology" has a copy of this "unofficial" letter and is using it to prove that this technology is damaging the public good, but nothing is "official". How convenient for the GCHQ.

    Ironically, i could easily see this having the opposite effect that the GCHQ is hoping for. I think more people care about having privacy in their home than inconveniencing ham operators.

  8. As an amateur radio operator in the US... by johnthorensen · · Score: 2

    The ARRL (read: ham radio lobbyist group - I hate lobbyists but I do count them as one of the less evil ones) has been fighting this battle for a decade or so. This is a really really old issue. However, there's no doubt that powerline networking interferes with amateur radio. However, most people consider it Someone Else's Problem (apologies to Douglas Adams). Hams have traditionally been very successful with defending their spectrum, and it's sort of surprising to me that the battle continues. Probably because they're up against the Energy industry, whose lobbyists are uberl33t.

  9. Ofcom forced to release PLT test report by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 2

    Let's be quite clear: Ofcom knew about the interference. Years ago they commissioned a report on particular BT PLT devices with a reputable testing house and the report confirmed that the devices were non-compliant - but the report was kept under wraps. Every complaint made by shortwave users (BBC, SWLs, hams, etc.) was responded to with the indication that Ofcom had no evidence that the devices were non-compliant. So one guy made a FOIA request that relevant reports were released. Ofcom refused to release them, citing exemptions to the FOIA.

    But the Information Commissioner demanded a release. And the report was finally released, confirming that Ofcom were lying, and demonstrating that Ofcom are not, in fact, an impartial regulator at all, but in bed with industry.

    The RSGB's latest press release on the matter.

    To summarise: Ofcom are a bunch of corrupt bastards.

  10. People from pork by DinDaddy · · Score: 2

    "reveals that the writer of the letter comes from a ham."

    I would pay big bucks to watch a ham bear a child. Even more for it to spawn a grown adult.

    Somewhat less for slashdot to have good editors.