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Academic Publishers Ask The Impossible In GSU Copyright Suit

Nidi62 writes "A Duke University blog covers the possible ramifications of a motion in the copyright case against Georgia State University. Cambrigde, Oxford, and Sage have proposed an injunction that would first enjoin GSU to include all faculty, employees, students. All copying would have to be monitored and limited to 10% of a work or 1000 words, whichever is less. No two classes would be allowed to use the same copied work unless they paid for it, essentially taking fair use out of the classroom. Along with this, courses would be allowed to be made up of only 10% copied material, the other 90% must be either purchased works or copies that have been paid for by permission fees. And, if this isn't enough, the publishers also want access to all computer systems on the campus network, to monitor compliance and copying. 'This proposed order, in short, represents a nightmare, a true dystopia, for higher education....Yet you can be sure that if [these] things happen, all of our campuses would be pressured to adopt the "Georgia State model" in order to avoid litigation.' Disclosure: I am currently a graduate student at Georgia State University."

17 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. Only a Plaintiff Proposition by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Before Slashdot goes into immediate outrage mode (although, by noting this, I might already be too late) over this, please note one very important thing:

    This is a PROPOSED INJUNCTION BY THE PLAINTIFFS .

    In our adversarial judicial system, plaintiffs will try to ask the court for as much relief as they can get away with. The courts will either accept it, accept part of it or laugh it out of court. However, merely a request for this amount of relief has zero effect on the law whatsoever. If I was injured in a minor car accident with you, I'd be well within my rights to ask the court for a billion dollars in compensation and relief. However, this doesn't mean the court will give it to me, nor does it have any real implications beyond the fact that I might come off sounding like a litigious dick.

    --
    My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    1. Re:Only a Plaintiff Proposition by nosfucious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the easiest way here is for the Vice-Chancellor/President/COO of the Universities to organise a boycott of those publishers.

      Implicit in this is:
      - Establish a new publishing house, for and by Universities
      - Stop all puchases and subscriptions to those publishers
      - A few phone calls to other universities to do the same.

      Universities have enough financial clout to fight this one. Independant research organisations would not be able to afford NOT to change publishers.

      Yes, there is a LOT of short term pain in taking these actions, but I'd say that the long term effects if this were to succeed and the remedy be granted in full, would cause chaos in research for decades.

      --
      Q:I was listening to a CD in Grip and it sounded horrible! What's up? A:Perhaps you are listening to country music
  2. Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

  3. Stop stealing copyrighted material. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Please, do some original research rather than relying on copying things that other people have already done. Copying established research is the Chinese way of doing things. If we ever hope to lead in this world again, we need to train our students to be creative and original.

    1. Re:Stop stealing copyrighted material. by ATMAvatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate to feed the obvious troll, but just in case anyone fails to see how much is wrong with your statement, it is worth pointing out that virtually all new knowledge builds on older knowledge. That said, education is one of, if not the most important reason that free use exists.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    2. Re:Stop stealing copyrighted material. by MDillenbeck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...not to mention the obvious stereotyping the user has done, and the fact that any researcher in academia who doesn't have a ton of citations in a research paper would have it scrutinized for plagiarism - and most likely they would find something. There are very few original ideas that do not build on others, and in our Intellectual Property mad society (where ideas = money) we must cite everything all the time. I'm sure I should be citing someone right now, but for the life of me I can say who published this sentiment I feel.

    3. Re:Stop stealing copyrighted material. by hazem · · Score: 4, Funny

      Of course (Smith, et. al., 1743), it (Jameson, 1641) makes it difficult (Al-Hamdi, 1721) to read (Grog, -3000 BCE) a sentence (Miller, Miller, 1902) without (Gupta, 2003) going (Lucretius, 50 BCE) a bit mad (me, now).

  4. Re:What is copied? by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I guess I have a skewed perspective, being that I have really only experienced science classes (or lower division non-science classes). But in almost all of these, there is very little copied material. Things are taught out of a book (or books) that the students are responsible for acquiring access to. While the students may obtain copies on their own, the professor would never disseminate them.

    Are things different in other fields? Are there areas where classes are taught primarily from copied materials? If so, why is this done, instead of just picking a selection of books? Is it that there are no adequate books? If so, then why don't people write them?

    Sorry for all the questions. As I said above, I am pretty ignorant on this topic.

    I'm the submitter, and I'm in the political science graduate program at GSU, so I can only speak for it (and really, only the classes I have taken and anecdotal evidence from others). Often times, our professors would hand out maybe one or 2 chapters of a book in printed form, to keep students from having to pay for the whole book. Other times, they will put them on online course reserves, where you can print out the article or book chapters yourself. Usually this is done in conjunction with using books (that have to be purchased) and articles available for free (to the student) on databases that the University subscribes to. A lot of students will print off these articles as well (which is what I believe is one of the things the publishers are complaining about). Some professors also just provide course packets. Basically, it seems these publishers feel like fair use costs them money, and they want to get rid of it.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  5. Open Source Academics by KurtP · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It has amazed me how long the current academic publishing regime has lasted. This dystopian fantasy by the publishers is the logical extension of a broken business model, where the publishers provide essentially zero value yet charge enormous fees. GA Tech should use this moment as a clean break point, and demand that all campus materials be either in the public domain or be available under Creative Commons license. Award tenure based only on publications which are under CC license.

    Universities need to remember that they are the folks that generate *all* the content that publishers want to use against them. They can stop giving it away to these guys any time they like. In this era of global networking, there is essentially no added value in distribution, warehousing, and organizing papers into journals. Publishers need to be reminded of this fact.

    1. Re:Open Source Academics by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The reason that Universities have not done this yet is that relative to the money they are making off of the students, textbook costs are chump change. The price of textbooks has risen faster than the rate of inflation for at least the last 40 years. One of the few things to rise in price even faster is college tuition.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    2. Re:Open Source Academics by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Informative

      It has amazed me how long the current academic publishing regime has lasted. This dystopian fantasy by the publishers is the logical extension of a broken business model, where the publishers provide essentially zero value yet charge enormous fees. GA Tech should use this moment as a clean break point, and demand that all campus materials be either in the public domain or be available under Creative Commons license. Award tenure based only on publications which are under CC license.

      Spiritually I'm in sympathy with you, but:

      You're assuming that free course materials don't already exist, and that profs need to be coerced by schools into writing them. That's not the case -- see my sig for a few hundred examples.

      You're lumping together textbooks and research. Those are completely different beasts. Your argument that publishers provide "essentially zero value" is fairly valid for research papers, but not really valid for most textbooks. If you look at the free textbooks catalogued at the site linked to in my sig, most of them are clearly not as fancy as commercial textbooks from the big publishers. Some of that fanciness is useless frippery, like colored section headers, but a lot of it really is significant. I've written several CC-licensed physics textbooks, and it's been a huge amount of work to try to make them look semi-professional without a commercial publishing house's resources to help me. In the case of research papers, nearly all academics in my field (physics) make their papers available on arxiv.org. They also publish them in non-free journals, because that's how you get tenure. In other fields, there are free journals such as PLOS.

      Universities need to remember that they are the folks that generate *all* the content that publishers want to use against them. They can stop giving it away to these guys any time they like.

      This is true in the case of research papers, not true in the case of textbooks. Universities don't write textbooks, professors write textbooks, and professors don't give them away for free to commercial publishers.

      In this era of global networking, there is essentially no added value in distribution, warehousing, and organizing papers into journals. Publishers need to be reminded of this fact.

      But this would only apply to research papers. What fraction of the material in course packs in a university bookstore is research papers? I would guess only a small percentage. When it comes to other kinds of academic writing besides research papers, publishers really do contribute a lot more than the things you're talking about.

    3. Re:Open Source Academics by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I think that was a result of the employees at the local chain store (quite possibly even including the manager) not understanding textbook pricing. The local chain bookstore was probably taking a bath on those textbooks. I worked at several regular retail bookstores before I got into the college bookstore business. Most books sold at a standard retail bookstore have a suggested list price and the publisher sells them to the bookstore at a discount off of that price. This is the price listed in Books-In-Print. Most college textbooks are listed by the publisher at net price, the price the publisher sells them for. This is the price that is listed in Books-In-Print. Most employees of chain bookstores do not know what "net price" is and when someone special orders a book, they charge them the price that is listed in Books-In-Print.
      One of the college bookstores I managed was close to a chain bookstore that did what I just talked about. It was all evening classes, so one day I made an appointment to see the manager of the chain bookstore. I took a long lunch and explained the pricing situation to them, when they realized how much they were losing on every one of those sales they stopped doing it that way and I stopped getting complaints about how much cheaper they were.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  6. Sounds like excessive copying to me by petes_PoV · · Score: 3, Informative

    Often times, our professors would hand out maybe one or 2 chapters of a book in printed form, to keep students from having to pay for the whole book.

    if that is what's considered acceptable practice at GSU, then yes: it sound sound like copyright violations. From my perspective, "fair use" means quoting a soundbite-sized portion - maybe a conclusion or a few sentences that support a proposition. It definitely should NOT cover giving students enough material that they don't have to buy textbooks. I do think the monitoring proposals sound a little extreme, but if large-scale copying is rampant at that university, then something needs to be done to stop it - and to ensure it IS stopped.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:Sounds like excessive copying to me by MDillenbeck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think copying is more a symptom of students burdened with costs - tuition, segregated fees, dorms/living expenses (as many do not attend schools near their homes where they can remain living with their parents), and book fees - all while watching governments across the board de-prioritize educational funding so that school becomes unaffordable unless you are destitute or rich.

      From the student's perspective: What has changed so much in mathematics up through calculus that I need to buy a new revision of the textbook every two years, other than the publishers don't want used book sales (much like the other slashdot article stated that game companies don't like used sales because it is 'worse than piracy from an economic standpoint'). Why is the only way I can get a book in a bundled package with a study guide and online resource that I neither want nor does my professor require? Why do I need to buy a particular book if I already know of a better one, but my professor requires the 10 odd problems assigned out of the book? What am I paying my professor for if most or all the information they are professing is from a book I could have studied outside the classroom?

      Gripes, but I think they are legitimate gripes that lead to a very important question: should education be a for-profit enterprise with all its knowledge locked up into highly restrictive IP laws, or does the knowledge output of academia belong to the society as a whole and as such should be subsidized by that society as a whole?

    2. Re:Sounds like excessive copying to me by prefect42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds pretty excessive to me. This isn't quoting a paragraph, this is taking a substantial portion of the book. If you need your students to have read it, get enough copies for the library. If that's too expensive, don't make them read it. If you're going to base your module round it, make them buy it. Sounds a lot like you've got an underfunded library that they're trying to work around by violating copyright. It's certainly not the behaviour I've seen of lecturers in my field.

      --

      jh

    3. Re:Sounds like excessive copying to me by Shompol · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Most science/math etc college books in Russia cost $3-$4. Those who want to learn are always welcome. The funny aspect of this is that they are actually much better quality than any american books I had to use to get both my undergraduate and graduate degrees. Problem: American books are bloated. I assume this is so because publishers feel that to charge $150 for a 2nd semester physics book, it needs to have at least 1000 pages. I cannot even read this crap, at best I just page through them before finals. This is a waste of trees, money, and does not help Americans to compete when Russian, Indian and Chinese come to take their engineering/science jobs.

      I would justify charging an insane amount of money for some highly specialized book with very narrow readership, but basic physics/calculus/economics has not changed in the last 200 years. Why are students forced to pay exorbitant amounts of money for information that should be free?

  7. Fair use includes multiple copies for classroom by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fair use explicitly includes the possibility of multiple copies for classroom use in the context of teaching.

    The point of copyright is not making people pay for things, it is public benefit. We tend to forget that, but in Fox Film Corp. v. Doyal, SCOTUS put it well: "The sole interest of the United States and the primary object in conferring the monopoly lie in the general benefits derived by the public from the labors of authors.”

    "Multiple copies for classroom use" is not license for copy shops to duplicate textbooks next to campus, or even course packets. But if as a professor or teaching assistant, I want to photocopy a chapter from a seminal text for my class of 20 students, I am well within my rights.

    Hell, there are some books that aren't even in print anymore... used copies are not only outrageously expensive, there simple aren't enough to go around. Sure, I can place it on two hour reserve at the library... or, I can use the Xerox machine in the manner in which it was intended.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson