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Firmware Troubles For Old Xbox 360s, Possibly PS3s As Well

Several readers have tipped news of firmware updates causing problems for both Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3. The Xbox issue was caused by a recent update thought to be preparing the platform for a new disc format that gives developers another 1GB or so of space to work with. As it turns out, the real purpose seems to be piracy countermeasures. Microsoft acknowledged the issue and promised that affected users would receive a new 360S console and a free year of Xbox Live to compensate. The PS3 problem was highlighted by reports of overheating consoles while playing L.A. Noire on the recently-released 3.61 firmware. Rockstar Games initially confirmed that the firmware was causing the overheating, but later backtracked. They issued a joint statement with Sony saying that neither the game nor the firmware was the culprit, leaving users wondering what else it could be.

26 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. Not the new update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://majornelson.com/2011/05/18/clearing-up-some-confusion/ The new update is not what is causing the problem it was a previous update. It also explains this at the bottom of the gamasutra article

  2. joint statement with Sony by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Rockstar Games initially confirmed that the firmware was causing the overheating, but later backtracked. They issued a joint statement with Sony

    So, Sony talked to them nicely, convinced them with irrefutable logic that neither the game nor the firmware was the problem, and they skipped happily, hand-in-hand to the podium to announce it jointly. Sony would never be so evil as to threaten Rockstar Games with new firmware that prevents all Rockstar Games' games from working at all.

    1. Re:joint statement with Sony by Spad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sony would never be so evil as to threaten Rockstar Games with new firmware that prevents all Rockstar Games' games from working at all.

      Even Sony wouldn't be that stupid.

    2. Re:joint statement with Sony by burnetd · · Score: 2

      The irrefutable logic being that it effects Xbox 360's too.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/may/19/la-noire-overheating

      Haters, don't you just love them.

    3. Re:joint statement with Sony by JavaBear · · Score: 2

      To be honest, the logic should be that NO game should ever be able to overheat a console, if the console had been build correctly and is able to handle 100% load on all resources.

    4. Re:joint statement with Sony by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 2

      The problem exists on the 360 too so actually not it's probably not the firmware.

    5. Re:joint statement with Sony by staticneuron · · Score: 2

      But of course, it MUST be the Sony firmware. That explains why 360 owners exhibit the same exact issues. Man, sony is evil and far reaching with that kind of pull. SMH.

    6. Re:joint statement with Sony by erroneus · · Score: 2

      That's a pretty tall order. From an engineering standpoint, logic is on your side. But (and my apologies) if this were a car, then similar expectations should exist such that a crash at any speed should be survivable and that the engine should never be able to overheat.

      In this case, software should never create a 100% load on resources. The speed and snappiness of a data processing system relies on its "availability." If a machine's resources are occupied at 100%, then it is not available for additional use so the target is actually somewhere around 10% load or less so that availability remains high and general performance remains high.

      On a side note: In the past, I have had the damndest time trying to convince an employer that a good IT person or team should be "highly available" to respond to situations that occur. Typical management mentality is that "we are paid to work" which is only partly true -- the rest is that we are paid to be there when things go bad and to have the capability to handle them quickly and efficiently.

      So from an management/engineering standpoint, I see your logic. But in a real-world application, that is not the case. We do not and arguably should not design products for "worst case scenario" applications. They should target just a little higher than average use applications.

    7. Re:joint statement with Sony by schlechtums · · Score: 2

      Seriously? Did you not even read the HEADLINE of the story? Let me spell it out for you. It's happening on xbox 360 consoles as well. SURELY IT MUST BE SONY'S FAULT AS THEIR EVIL KNOWS NO BOUNDS!

    8. Re:joint statement with Sony by Nyder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sony would never be so evil as to threaten Rockstar Games with new firmware that prevents all Rockstar Games' games from working at all.

      Even Sony wouldn't be that stupid.

      Are you new to this reality?

      Of course Sony would be that stupid.

      --
      Be seeing you...
  3. Say what you like about Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...but this is how you do customer service.

    Microsoft acknowledged the issue and promised that affected users would receive a new 360S console and a free year of Xbox Live to compensate.

    Acknowledge the problem, fix it (or replace it in this case with a superior model), and give compensation.

    No nonsense customer service, and it gives gives them good PR.

    Compare that to Sony...

    1. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Acknowledge the problem, fix it (or replace it in this case with a superior model), and give compensation.

      To be fair, Microsoft have had quite a bit of experience with replacing defective Xbox consoles. This is probably the second item on their customer service checklist after turning the unit off and on again fails.

    2. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by tophermeyer · · Score: 3, Informative

      I like that you were modded Funny for that. Having experienced two Xbox failures, that is just about exactly what happened.

      MS left me with a sour perception of their testing/manufacturing standards, but their customer service is pretty darn good.

    3. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2
      To be fair, Microsoft have had quite a bit of experience with bricking hardware with updates.

      FTFY

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    4. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by peppepz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Acknowledge the problem, fix it (or replace it in this case with a superior model), and give compensation.

      No nonsense customer service, and it gives gives them good PR.

      They're not doing anything good. That's the minimum they can do for bricking their users' consoles. Hadn't they done that, they would get sued, lose, and then they'd have to pay both a new console and the lawsuit costs.

      Compare that to Sony...

      ...who only gave away 3 high rated games, one or two months of free premium service, a year of credit card protection, and other junk I can't remember for 3 weeks of downtime of a free service. Those bastards.

    5. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by B1 · · Score: 2

      If you have an older unit that needs service, Sony won't railroad you into a newer unit.

      I recently sent in a 60GB backward compatible PS3 for repair (wouldn't power on). They gave me the option of a $129 repair, or for $99 I could swap it for one of the newer models instead. The Sony rep left the choice up to me but she definitely understood why I wanted to stick with the older model, in fact almost encouraged me to go that route (I would have anyway).

      I paid the $129... they ended up swapping mine for another 60GB backward compatible console. I got my replacement a week after I shipped my old one. The unit I received looked brand new. It was shiny... clean... still had the vinyl cling film. It was a different serial number... but the same model number (CECHA01). It may have been a refurbed unit, but regardless, Sony definitely took care of me.

    6. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by Riceballsan · · Score: 2
      A sony shill, that's new. Now the thing with the blu-ray player is, with what they got on the removal of other OS, sony basically reserved themselves the right to remove features that may or may not have been a selling point for the system. Other OS may have only been used by 5% of people, but that still dosn't justify removing it, what's to say they can't remove blu ray 1-2 years down the road, sure they would be retarded to do it, but they more or less secured the right to do it if they wanted. Secondly it isn't considered for free when the system is expensive and it's on the box that it can do it, it's not a bonus for free it's a system feature and a selling point.

      are you actually defending their suing of hotz? He posted keys that he figured out, that isn't/shouldn't be a crime. Publishing keys would only be a crime if he signed an NDA with sony beforehand. Hotz never condoned encouraged or even supported piracy. All he did was give people the keys to do what they wanted with the hardware that they paid for. What hotz did is no different then say posting a guide to upgrade the engine in a car to make it go faster, yes someone may be able to use that information to make a getaway car, or speed, but just having a car that can go fast in itself is not a crime, nor is making one able to go fast a crime.

    7. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 2

      Acknowledge the problem, fix it (or replace it in this case with a superior model), and give compensation.

      No nonsense customer service, and it gives gives them good PR.

      They're not doing anything good. That's the minimum they can do for bricking their users' consoles. Hadn't they done that, they would get sued, lose, and then they'd have to pay both a new console and the lawsuit costs.

      Compare that to Sony...

      ...who only gave away 3 high rated games, one or two months of free premium service, a year of credit card protection, and other junk I can't remember for 3 weeks of downtime of a free service. Those bastards.

      For just 3 weeks of downtime of a free service? You don't think it had anything to do with all that personal information? or because they aren't absolutely sure that the credit card data wasn't compromised? Nice attempt to spin this, but you're comparing apples to oranges here.

      As well, them giving a year of credit protection is worthless. 3-5 years would be more appropriate. The data from ID theft often isn't used immediately. Frank Abagnale Jr. has made an informative presentation about that subject, and given it at a few colleges in the U.S. It's a good watch if you can find it.

    8. Re:Say what you like about Microsoft... by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 2

      You don't think it had anything to do with all that personal information?

      No, because that information has been stolen from them, using criminal methods, so for what we know by now, they're the victim. Until a lawsuit will prove otherwise. In that case, Sony will possibly go bankrupt because I suspect the compensation would be much higher.

      Sony is responsible for protecting that information. They failed. Why would anyone trust them with updated information in the future? Ah, because they distracted with shiny games and stuff.
      Also, that personal information could be used for identity theft. That's what the credit protection is supposed to guard against, and that's specifically why Sony is offering it.

      As well, them giving a year of credit protection is worthless.

      I clearly remember many comments on Slashdot which invoked credit protection before Sony declared they would be offering it.

      This comment was based on the timeframe being limited to a year, not the offer of credit protection itself. Reading the 3-5 year recommendation in the sentence that followed should have made this clear to you.

      3-5 years would be more appropriate.

      Yes, but then why not 6-7? Criminals can wait. The truth is that the only solution to sleep well is to change the credit card number, which should be doable in 1 year. Again, I attribute the hassle of doing so to the hackers who performed the attack.

      You think identity theft is based off a credit card number? It's based off the personal information. The credit card is just one small way to abuse the hacked data. Even if the credit card data was not obtained, the personal information can be worth much more. As well, I based the 3-5 number off the recommendation of the aforementioned Abagnale presentation. It's not like he's inexperienced in these matters.

  4. This Is Indifference by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are millions of game consoles out there - millions - and yet there aren't very many revisions of hardware per model. It's not hard for the manufacturers to test how these required updates are going to affect their hardware. But here we are again, a story about revisions of two major consoles having serious issues with a firmware update.

    These required updates are ridiculous. We wouldn't put up with having to take our cars back to the dealer to have required maintenance done that would take away some feature or option we paid for, let alone having the maintenance leave the car in a troubled or non-working state.

    There needs to be some sort of consumer protection to prevent these types of things. What's next, an update for our phones that prevents us from dialing 800 numbers because they are costing corporations too much money when we call?

    1. Re:This Is Indifference by khellendros1984 · · Score: 2

      Features like pervasive advertising! And a nearly unnavigable menu system, yay! Just give me back my blades, and I'll be happy again. The current UI is balls.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  5. Re:PS3 Issues by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    Blaming the game in such cases is stupid; but blaming the hardware or firmware isn't.

    A computer shouldn't be expected to operate at full performance under all conditions; but failure to throttle clocks on high power silicon or halt gracefully before suffering hardware damage is pretty shoddy work; doubly so in something like a console or laptop, where the manufacturer has full control of every component, thermal sensor, fan, and airflow path inside the chassis.

  6. If your xbox or ps3 breaks... by bmo · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... I'll let you come over and play with my Wii.

    --
    BMO

  7. MS needs to stop futzing around with the DVD drive by elrous0 · · Score: 2

    Acknowledgment or not, MS needs to stop futzing around with the DVD drive and just design a new generation console with a blu-ray drive. They're still limping along with an increasingly obsolete DVD drive (becoming more and more problematic on newer games like L.A. Noire) because they're too proud to pay Sony royalty rights for blu-ray and because they've been so focused on their Wii knockoff Kinect add-on. So, here we are at the end of the traditional 5-year console lifespan, and they don't even have a new console on the horizon. And now they're trying to squeeze more life out of their aging console with a software fix that breaks a lot of their older versions (and which will only add one lousy gig to the disc capacity anyway).

    Bad move, MS. You used to have the definitive lead (in the U.S. anyway), and could have secured it by sticking to the traditional 5-year life cycle. But now Sony (and even Nintendo now) is catching up and preparing to pass. And you're just standing still.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  8. new big game by mzs · · Score: 2

    As others have noted, LA Noire overheating is also happening on xbox 360. Notice that in both cases it's older consoles? What's the game that a high percentage of people are playing now? So the big new game is what people happen to be playing on their dusty old hardware which is overheating. Same thing will happen next year with the big game and the older consoles around then. Anyway, it's the simplest explanation at this point.

  9. Re:that doesn't make any sense by wastedlife · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The discs are still dual-layer DVDs, but the new "format" is a different partition scheme that opens up an extra gig of space for game data, at the expense of space that was dedicated for some other purpose. That seems like it should be a pretty minor change, so the rest of the update probably slips in other changes such as DRM.

    The theory on why this is requiring a hardware replacement for some users is that this forces a flash of the dvd drive firmware. Some revisions have a dvd drive that is incapable of being flashed, so the firmware may be causing those revisions to be unable to read disks.

    --
    Said, "It's just like dice but it's got more sides And it tells me who lives and who dies"