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Explosion At Foxconn Factory Kills 2, Injures 16

arielCo writes "There are several reports in the news about an explosion in a Foxconn factory in Chengdu that manufactures the iPad 2, killing two workers and injuring another 16. 'The Chengdu Municipal government said the explosion occurred in Foxconn's "polishing plant" at around 7 p.m. Experts say it is likely a cleaning stage at the end of the production process after devices are assembled.' There's a short amateur video of the ensuing fire, taken during the evacuation. Apple said they are working with Foxconn to investigate."

199 comments

  1. Backfire? by pecosdave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is this what happens when you make everyone sign no suicide contracts?

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    1. Re:Backfire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they implemented robots to succeed human child laborers and well, they already learned to rebel.

    2. Re:Backfire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its not like Foxconn can do much if one broke said contract.

  2. Keikaku doori... by DamienNightbane · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Somehow I doubt that this was an accident.

    1. Re:Keikaku doori... by DamienNightbane · · Score: 0

      Well shit. It looks like they'll just give anyone mod points these days.

    2. Re:Keikaku doori... by creat3d · · Score: 1

      The first 2 posts, including yours, were probably modded down by the same guy posting "CATCH AIDS FAGGOTS" flamebait... or one of the Apple-flavored shills...

      --
      Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
    3. Re:Keikaku doori... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Somehow I doubt that this was an accident.

      Yeah, it was probably sabotage by an Apple hater.

      What? That sounds like the silly ramblings of a fanboy ? Good, I got your attention. Now let me ask a serious question: Why is it that at a product manufacturing factory where people are ridiculously over-worked that negligence isn't the first assumption? These are people being exploited, but these are not people who want to lose their jobs. Backlash, for them, would be people not turning up for work.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:Keikaku doori... by camperslo · · Score: 1

      Somehow I doubt that this was an accident.
        So what's the theory?

      disturbed worker? competitor? government upset over a planned Foxconn iPad factory in Brazil? coverup of theft? Apple stock manipulation? distraction from some other news?

    5. Re:Keikaku doori... by DamienNightbane · · Score: 0

      Yes.

  3. Kind of sad by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Even the Foxconn buildings are trying to commit suicide now.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Kind of sad by DamienNightbane · · Score: 0

      Oh snap!

  4. This is terrible to hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I've just ordered an iPad. I hope I don't get one that has been damaged by the explosion.

    1. Re:This is terrible to hear by Hognoxious · · Score: 1, Funny

      Don't worry, his Jobsiness (may his turtleneck never sag) foresaw this and ordained that they shall be available in black, so scorchmarks and soot won't show.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:This is terrible to hear by pnot · · Score: 1

      Congratulations! You have achieved (at the time of my reading) the coveted "Score: -1, Funny". It would be interesting to know what proportion of jokes about Apple end up with that rating...

  5. The new Bothans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many Chengduians died to bring us this iPad?

  6. This is obviously... by Morphine007 · · Score: 2

    ... the rapture.

    1. Re:This is obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the rapture.

      Yes. God is striking at the Forbidden Fruit god, Steve Jobs. Obviously.

    2. Re:This is obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steve Jobs is the antichrist?!?!

      I did some research and I think your right!!

      According to this page http://www.christianityoasis.com/endtimes/antichristandhisempire.htm

      This individual, known as Antichrist in the Bible, will be a sinister world leader that shows up during the End Times. He reigns terror for three and one half years. He will be the leader of a ten unit empire. He will be powerful and is even able to perform miracles. His powers will come from satan. He and his sidekick, the false prophet, will deceive the world. These two will cause everyone in the world to take a mark in their right hand or in their head. Nobody can buy or sell anything without this mark. They will also create an image and all must worship it ... Or die. The number one mission of Antichrist is to get the entire world to worship him as their lord. If they choose not to, they will be killed. It will truly be HELL on earth.

      So lets see here:
      It has been roughly 3 and a half years since the first iphone came out!
      Mac mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, Macbook Pro, Macbook Air, xServ, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, iPad = Ten unit empire
      Preform miracles? Did you see how he brought Apple back to life?
      Sidekick? No doubt its Tim Cook
      Take a mark in their right hand or head? People carrying and placing the apple logo next to their head in the form of the iPhone.
      Nobody can buy or sell without it? Buy or sell apps that is (Alternative explanation: That soon you will pay for things by swiping your phone over the register)
      Entire world to worship him as lord? Have you HEARD his fanbois?

      Other signs:
      The Apple I was priced at $666.66

  7. Nope, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The exploding battery problem has apparently not been solved:
    http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/08/28/1535243/Apple-Faces-Inquiries-In-the-EU-On-iPhone-Accidents?art_pos=1

    1. Re:Nope, but... by pecosdave · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I'm just saying if people want to kill themselves and they sign contracts that prevent their families from collecting benefits if they do they may cause "accidents" so their families can still benefit.

      I don't see how any fucktard can interpret that as trolling.

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      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    2. Re:Nope, but... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I just wasted my last modpoint or I'd mod you troll. The vast majority of suicides are done in a manner than doesn't endanger anyone else. Not to mention that the general description of the accident makes it sound like it would be a horribly silly way to attempt suicide. And the fact you are bringing up anti-suicide pacts indicates some irrational spite against Apple (or simply gross ignorance about suicide, this incident, and life in general) such that you would earn a troll mod and it wouldn't be the fault of the moderator being a fucktard...

    3. Re:Nope, but... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      the fact you are bringing up anti-suicide pacts indicates some irrational spite against Apple

      Or it could be because it was recently covered on slashdot.

      It sounds to me like you might have some sort of irrational love for Apple, any time anyone says anything that isn't positive about Apple (this includes neutral statements like my own) the Apple image mod bunch comes out in droves and protects the image of their beloved religious icons. Your statement pretty much backs up my statement. Besides, plenty of people moded me troll already, just click on the my score.

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    4. Re:Nope, but... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I know it was brought up. If you were going for funny, then you missed and deserved troll. If you weren't going for funny, then you were pedantic, condescending, and, well, incorrect. There is no justification you gave, or could give, that would free you from deserving the troll mod.

    5. Re:Nope, but... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I am a proud troll, I've made the front page of the art of trolling multiple times. In this case I am not trolling and seriously think anti-suicide contracts creating an environment where "accidents" happen is a serious thing to consider, even if this case isn't one of those.

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      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    6. Re:Nope, but... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Has there ever been a case of an anti-suicide contract resulting in someone committing mass murder? If not, then you are a troll. If so, then there would at least be an argument that you aren't a troll, but you'd have to prove at least one incident. I'd start with airplane crashes. My understanding is that there was a finding once that a commercial pilot committed suicide, but that the government lied to cover it up to prevent people from thinking that pilots could be suicidal (and all the implications of that). But then, that wasn't a suicide contract, unless you consider regular life insurance policies (many of which not paying on suicide) to be an anti-suicide pact, and even then I have no idea if there was life insurance involved.

    7. Re:Nope, but... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Has there ever been a case of an anti-suicide contract resulting in someone committing mass murder?

      Are you telling me something can't happen unless it's already happened before?

      I'm going to argue anti-suicide contracts, at least in the form they were given to workers at this factory are quite rare, however I will go with the insurance example you have given. People have committed suicide in ways to cover it up for family/insurance purposes. There was a case of a guy here in Houston that was proven to have intentionally flattened his own tire with a pocket knife before jumping out in front of traffic to commit suicide so his wife would still benefit. They proved the hole in the tire matched the shape of the knife. Had that incident, or one similar to it, accidentally caused the death of another then it would have happened before. There's been lots of cases similar to his, it's just one that comes to mind.

      I would argue anyone who goes apeshit with a knife, sword, or gun in public killing as many people as they can until someone else takes them out effectively committed suicide by cop.

      I'm going to argue that you are a troll by attempting to engage me in an argument to prove my point by giving a past example without leaving any room to accept a first case scenario. I'm fairly certain such a thing has happened before, but I have a full time job, two part time jobs (in an attempt to become self employed), and a family. I'm not going to devote many, many hours browsing case files across all 50 states and however many countries I decide to dig through until I find a case that matches the requirements you've taken it upon yourself to set in order for me to win the argument you appear to have established a debate win/lose guideline for. If you would like to dig through historic cases I'll give you a hint, it was generally "against the rules" or frowned upon for those who were oppressed/enslaved to kill themselves, I'm sure you can find a couple of cases related to river boat boilers or cotton gins where suicide and murder went together. That's just historic US slavery, this sort of thing happened everywhere throughout history, just be a little flexible on your interpretations.

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    8. Re:Nope, but... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Are you telling me something can't happen unless it's already happened before?

      I'm telling you that you fail at risk management. You might as well have asked whether they tested the site for meteor rock because the insects on the other side of the galaxy just sent a rock hurling into Buenos Aires, I mean Foxconn.

  8. Begs the question... by Pollux · · Score: 2, Funny

    I suppose, if Apple is that much of a religion to Apple fans, then does that make these lost plant workers martyrs?

    1. Re:Begs the question... by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Funny

      And more importantly, do these martyrs get 72 free downloads from the App Store(tm)...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      This factory isn't owned by Apple.

      I would imagine you own plenty of devices with parts and components made at Foxconn.

    3. Re:Begs the question... by jdpars · · Score: 2

      I know I do, and I regret that. I hate that we buy our electronics made at factories like these. They're only made there because you can cut any corner you want in China, including actually paying your workers, and still sell in America. Why have we not told China to man up and get some human rights? We made the mistake of waiting to be well established before getting rid of slavery and underpaid immigrant workers (mostly, we're still working on that). If China could actually do the human rights thing now instead of later, maybe I'd have more respect for them.

    4. Re:Begs the question... by nysus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Capitalism is good at many things, but uplifting workers ain't one of them. The only thing will make apple respond is if it sees a consumer backlash which will pressure the, to allow these workers to form an autonomous union.

      --

      ---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.

    5. Re:Begs the question... by clang_jangle · · Score: 0

      Apple doesn't hire the workers and run the factories, Foxconn does. Apple can try to influence Foxconn, but they don't own it. I know it's very fashionable on slashdot to hate Apple and blame them for everything wrong in the world, but let's at least try to be rational.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    6. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the first sign of the App-ture, when Steve Jobs will descend from on high, taking the faithful with him back to Cupertino, leaving the rest ofthe world in ruins. Destroying the production plants is necessary to stop the insincere-converters from snapping up an iPhone or ipad in time to be App-tured with the rest of us.

    7. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, since they are not believing in it. I bet they rather hate Apple.
      Foxconn employees would be more like "heretics" forced to do slave labor by inquisitors for their "sins".

      Now contrast this story to this: Colbert and his iPad...
      ...and you can see how fucked-up things are.

      Cheap crap we don't need, with money we don't have... indeed.

    8. Re:Begs the question... by rednip · · Score: 1

      It's only market forces that are keeping these skilled workers in squalor, if they weren't making iPads they'd be making TVs for Walmart. The most telling thing about China is that organized labor (that isn't just an organ of the state) could help jump start a large middle class, but it won't happen as long as the 'communists' are still in power.

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    9. Re:Begs the question... by tukang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple knows what's going on at Foxconn but still choose to do business with them. Outsourcing your dirty work does not absolve you of responsibility.

    10. Re:Begs the question... by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      They could use another vendor if they did not like the way foxconn does business. I wish we knew which of these electronics OEMS ( foxconn, MSI, etc, not integrators like Apple) had the best labor practices. I would be sure to buy their products.

    11. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, a device *you* don't need and money *you* don't have.

      Typical geek filth projecting your sorry little existence on to everyone.

    12. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My god. That is the most mealy-mouthed fanbois excuse I've ever heard.

      Apple could stop buying stuff from Foxconn. That would influence them fast enough. But then you wouldn't get your precious iPad would you?

      Hang your head in shame.

    13. Re:Begs the question... by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      You people are really talking out of your ass. In my experience every western company that opens business here in Russia provides better than local pay, good working conditions and a sane promotion path. True for anything from retail to manufacture to IT outsourcing. The salaries may not seem much in absolute values (about 1000 euros for entry level skilled labour) but provide a good standard of living and the jobs are sought after.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    14. Re:Begs the question... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      I'm sure China is just lying awake at night wishing it had your respect.

      Why have we not told China to man up and get some human rights?

      Really? I mean... really? How old are you?

    15. Re:Begs the question... by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Stop being an ass. I neither have nor want an iThingie. I'm just not irrational, so naturally expect that the way to deal with Foxconn is to (1) not knowingly buy anything made there and (2) put pressure on *Foxconn* directly, as they are the bad actor in question. But that's too rational for slashdot, probably... Contains no shame, hatred, or logical fallacies.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    16. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the more accurate headline is "Explosion at Foxconn, iPad delays imminent, several also possibly killed or injured".

    17. Re:Begs the question... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      no one is sticking a gun to your head making you buy iDevices and Playstation 3's

    18. Re:Begs the question... by jdpars · · Score: 2

      Old enough to know that the powers that be in the world could, if they wanted, actually accomplish that.

    19. Re:Begs the question... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Huh. Really? Here in China, they had socialism for fifty years and everyone was dirt-poor. The real kind of socialism, the kind where it was illegal to make profit. Ever since Deng Xiaoping hijacked the people's revolution onto the capitalist road, each year has been better than the last, and it's showing no signs of stopping. Workers work a lot, but get paid a heck of a lot better than back on the farm. The last time I was in a small village, there was construction going on everywhere. New houses being built by money sent home from factory work.

      China already has a union for the workers. Didn't you get the memo?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    20. Re:Begs the question... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Why have we not told China to man up and get some human rights?

      If China could actually do the human rights thing now instead of later, maybe I'd have more respect for them.

      China wants a strong economy and the people at those factories want to eat. When the time comes, they'll stop and say 'we deserve more'. Until that happens, they'll be exploited.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    21. Re:Begs the question... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      In my last post the formatting was incorrect and I blew away my post. I'll re-write:

      Why have we not told China to man up and get some human rights?

      Why is that the US's job? The workers haven't asked for Uncle Sam's help, and when the US does stick its nose in people criticize then.

      If China could actually do the human rights thing now instead of later, maybe I'd have more respect for them.

      China wants a strong economy and the people at those factories want to eat. When the time comes, they'll stop and say 'we deserve more'. Until that happens, they'll be exploited.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    22. Re:Begs the question... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      It's the first sign of the App-ture, when Steve Jobs will descend from on high, taking the faithful with him back to Cupertino, leaving the rest ofthe world in ruins. Destroying the production plants is necessary to stop the insincere-converters from snapping up an iPhone or ipad in time to be App-tured with the rest of us.

      You do realize that with the things you are a fanboy of (Android, most likely), you act with a sense of righteousness, right? Spare us the 'cult of Steve', hypocrite.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    23. Re:Begs the question... by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I am by no means an Apple fanboy, but Apple does have some standards in regards to how their outsourced workers are treated. Most companies just say "Give us the product", Apple says "Give us the product and also follow these basic workplace and factory guidelines".

      That said, considering the premium you pay on pretty much every Apple product, you'd think they could afford some better conditions for what ultimately amounts to their employees.

    24. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple knows what's going on at Foxconn but still choose to do business with them. Outsourcing your dirty work does not absolve you of responsibility.

      Well, good thing they only make Apple stuff in that factory, or you'd be looking pretty hypocritical right now. Oh, wait...

    25. Re:Begs the question... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      The real kind of socialism, the kind where it was illegal to make profit.

      The "real kind of socialism" is one where the economy is controlled by the workers. Not by a Party oligarchy (Stalinism, Maoism, Fascism), nor by a state-backed oligarchy of "owners" (capitalism).

      --
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      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    26. Re:Begs the question... by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Ri~ight, so the transition from feudal society to modern society had nothing to do with capitalism. It just so happens that every country that experienced the transition just happened to have free market capitalism in place during the transition.

      Cause and effect have no impact on the mind of a socialist, apparently.

    27. Re:Begs the question... by tmosley · · Score: 0

      lol, so in your world, a brand new worker owns an equal share of the business to a worker who has been there for three decades, and helped to build the business from the ground up? So the person who worked elsewhere and saved money to invest in said company, but no longer works there himself gets nothing? The worker who does nothing gets an equal share as the one who works in a dangerous part of the business?

      Socialists have the shallowest thought processes of any group of people on the planet.

    28. Re:Begs the question... by tmosley · · Score: 1

      You can't legislate purchasing power into people's pockets, only out of them. If you want human "rights", then you need to get out of the way and let a capital base develop, while protecting workers from abuses like theft, assault, and murder. That is the only logical role of a government in any economy. Setting wages does nothing but destroy jobs and lock out the poor from the cycle of advancement. If workers are free to leave, then they will if they think they have a better opportunity elsewhere. Which they will, once they have accumulated money and experience from their current job.

    29. Re:Begs the question... by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      That's actually pretty much right. From each according to his ability, to each according to their need. Basically, it is assumed that a worker would work to his full potential because he knows he is benefiting from the other workers who are working to their full potential. That is why the communist states also put a focus on comradeship and brotherhood, as that is pretty much the only way to motivate someone in a purely socialist economy.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    30. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That Marxist reasoning usually gets torn a new asshole in these discussions. That said, something functionally similar can certainly emerge out of a more sound framework such as the field of neuroeconomics.

    31. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in China, they had socialism for fifty years and everyone was dirt-poor.

      I'm sure a few made out just fine.

      The real kind of socialism, the kind where it was illegal to make profit

      (I am straying off-topic, and not arguing with your post, but I can't resist.)

      As opposed to glorious capitalism.

      Individuals can do what they like without having to line someone else's pocket every step of the way.

      Along with profits not being outlawed, failure is also punished, and megacorps are never "bailed out" or "too big to fail" since that would be that evil socialism thing.

      There is a level playing field. No special tax rebates or cuts or special treatment for any special interests. No "lobbying" or "bribery" either, since there is no blind worship of money above all else (after all, capitalists believe in working hard and doing a good job, not grabbing as much money as quick as they can)

      Shitty work conditions are never excused with "they are better off with us exploiting them than their predecessors" or "the market will correct itself"

      The greater good (the companies' bottom line) is never the # 1 priority.

      Nothing is ever rationalized away with the magical " it creates jobs" meme regardless of how destructive to nature, society, or our own health those professions or products might be.

      The collective (companies) are never more important than the individual.

      There is no pyramid scheme workers are required to pay into.

      The top few don't get golden parachutes or special treatment.

      I have no illusions about socialism. I have no illusions about any other man-made system either. Honesty is never profitable.

    32. Re:Begs the question... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The USSR made the transition without free market capitalism. Russia was literally feudal until the late 1800s. They didn't advance much before WWII when they went communist (or socialist or whatever). They industrialized before the collapse of the USSR.

      Not to mention we haven't had "free market capitalism" in the US. Ever. One requirement of the "free market" system is that the consumers be informed. The owners of capital do everything they can to violate that rule, generally with great success. It may be capitalism, but it is as far from "free market" capitalism as the owners of capital can get it.

    33. Re:Begs the question... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      China wants a strong economy and the people at those factories want to eat. When the time comes, they'll stop and say 'we deserve more'. Until that happens, they'll be exploited.

      If they do that now, then the factories will move to India or Africa, and the workers will be worse off. Instead, they need to wait until it's guaranteed that the nation will succeed. There's no point in $10 minimum wage if nobody is employed.

    34. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah. And the fanbois start throwing their toys out of prams. Typical.

      Your sig is apt. Does Jobs' taste good?

      (not the same AC)

    35. Re:Begs the question... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That isn't socialism. Socialism is fine with profit, just not at the expense of the people. Chinese philosophy was that you accept your place in life even if it sucks, where as socialism promises a better life for everyone.

      Foxconn is like the factories of the 19th century where workers were just cogs in the machine. Capitalism in its pure form where a person's life is valued at their economic output.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    36. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      score

    37. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit Batman, your level of brainwashing is OVER 9000!
      China's 100-year-planned-economy, the USA's industrial feudalist (and already partially fascist) government. ... and "market forces".

      Yeah, riiiight. If something bad happens to someone else, it's magical "market forces", and when something bad happens to you, it's "the socialist government".
      You know what? "Market forces" will cause the death of your country very soon. Exactly because you blindly believed in them.

    38. Re:Begs the question... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      So not yet old enough to realize what you want can't actually be done. OK.

      You'll get there, kid. Just hang in there.

  9. Two workers killed, sixteen injured... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... the rest were fired for leaving their posts.

  10. rulers fear mandate paying big for fake deities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no better way to make things right than to plead with some imaginary fictional being for forgiveness? The fines are minimal, there's nothing that cannot be 'forgiven'? clean slate, ready for our eternal reward system

  11. Broken society by improfane · · Score: 2

    This probably wouldn't happen in the western world because we have some expectation of safety and working conditions. In a ideal world, we'd be manufacturing this sort of thing at home. Any form of economic prosperity in one area is balanced by a social or economic cost in another.

    --
    Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    1. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But isn't the cost of human lives worth it to make our fancy toys $1 more profitab^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcheaper?

    2. Re:Broken society by bobstreo · · Score: 1

      Actually I think it's encouraged in the western world, most companies hold insurance policies on their workers...

    3. Re:Broken society by spire3661 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Your 'in an ideal world' makes no sense. In an ideal world we wouldnt have to worry about petty nationalism. These things are made where they are because cost of labor is cheap there. If the ipad was made in America it would cost almost 25-50% more what it does now. That makes sense how?

      --
      Good-bye
    4. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 2

      Why is it cheap there? Should it be? It's exploitation. Lack of safety makes it cheaper. Do you really think Apple cares?

      If that's not broken then I'm afraid to tell you what happens in the world because it won't make sense to you because cheaper is better, right?~

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    5. Re:Broken society by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      It would not cost anywhere near that much extra. Germans still make cars, reasonable priced ones. They have much higher labor rates than even Americans. Paying line workers is just not that big a cost in such an operation. I bet they save more than the labor savings just on being able to dump whatever they want into the environment.

      Either way, there is no reason why these products could not be built in China by 40 hour per week, well paid workers in safe working conditions. The ipad 3 might cost a whole $10 extra of you did that.

    6. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In a pre-Reagan world, there would be 20-50% tariffs on it when it comes back in China, and Apple would do the math and make it in America. And if you can't afford it at that price, tough, or DEMAND AND GET RAISES, also like in pre-Reagan America. Or have your union bargain for raises, again, like before the 80s. But we were forced to go with "make stuff cheaper by any means necessary, so workers can work for lower wages, thus keeping inflation in check, which destroys our ill-gotten non-taxed wealth."

    7. Re:Broken society by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      because heath and safety would inspect the plant to make sure dust wasn't building up - and make sure they arn't locking employees in the building which has cased fatalities before in china

    8. Re:Broken society by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      This probably wouldn't happen in the western world because we have some expectation of safety and working conditions. In a ideal world, we'd be manufacturing this sort of thing at home. Any form of economic prosperity in one area is balanced by a social or economic cost in another.

      People dying in accidents at work happens in the USA about 4000 times per year. So things do happen. They don't just happen, they happen every day. Quite likely that ten or more people died in work accidents in the USA on the same die.

    9. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Germany only builds their higher end cars in the country, the budget cars are built in Brazil (Volkswagen Fox) and the parts for all of them come from all over the place.

    10. Re:Broken society by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Yes, accidents do happen, but conditions change the rates quite dramatically. More than 100,000 Chinese people died in work related accidents every year.
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7201875.stm

      Even if we say China has 4 times as many people, that only accounts for 16k deaths a year. Not even a quarter of the total.

      You are either being disingenuous intentionally, or are a complete moron, which is it?

    11. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It makes sense in several ways. First, all those safety and environmental regulations actually make the corporation (and often the consumer) pay for the real cost of manufacturing. Disposing of toxic waste, for instance, costs money while dumping it is cheap. However, somebody's eventually got to pay for that in cleanup costs, diminished land value, health care costs, etc. Overseas manufacturers and their American outsourcers are betting it won't be them. It's a classic case of our current economic model of internalizing profits and externalizing costs. (another would be the MAFIAA type organizations getting ICE and DOJ to go after people for what should be civil infringement actions). It's standard American kleptocracy in action.

      Another benefit of manufacturing and manufactured goods bearing a realistic cost is that maybe, just maybe, we'll stop designing disposable crap and put some actual quality into things that will last. People used to have TVs and electronics repaired instead of replaced at the first sign of trouble, you know.

      Stop assuming that just because things are a certain way that it's the best and proper way for them to be.

    12. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      The question is whether it was an accident committed by human error or was it the factory itself where the plant was not safe to work in. Human error is probably pretty close between different nations.

      Working conditions here have steadily improved. If there were not laws to prevent it, managers would happily risk your life, give you lifelong debilitating conditions in the name of profit. My assumption was this was caused by the factory, perhaps negligence from maintaining it. In western countries you would have some kind of recourse due to the regulations and safety standards. There? Not so much.

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    13. Re:Broken society by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      How is it exploitation? Cost of labour in india and china is cheap because they have huge, relatively under educated labour pools, poor access to jobs, etc. In short: they're poor. Labour is cheap, and they only way they will stop being less poor is if they get jobs and foreign investment, and frankly foreign ideas on how to actually be productive.

      Sure, china has less up to date (enforced) labour and safety standards than in the west. But 1: bad shit still happens here. And 2: they're 100 years behind because 100 years ago we were actually outright exploiting them (from the opium wars up through the partial occupation by japan etc.).

      In an ideal world they will catch up to our standard of living, or we will slide down to theirs, or, more likely, some combination of the two. And then you can specialize labour regionally etc. But right now they aspire to the lifestyle of a college student, because we walled them off and exploited them for so long.

      Now that we're actually trying to be fair to them with trade rules etc. we are struggling to compete, but that is an issue that will resolve itself with time.

    14. Re:Broken society by countertrolling · · Score: 2

      Any form of economic prosperity in one area is balanced by a social or economic cost in another.

      ?? Really? You believe in zero-sum? You can't have prosperity and freedom on all sides through cooperation and fair trade? I think we can.. if we want it...

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    15. Re:Broken society by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Ford Focus is a high-end car? Is the Ford Feista a high-end car?

      Cars are assembled closer to delivery points so they can be tailored for that market. The VW fox was designed for the South American market and is imported to Europe. Not because it is cheap, the Golf is produced in Germany. This because that is where the factory for them was built, since it was designed for the South American market. Imports to Europe came about after the car was a success in South America.

    16. Re:Broken society by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      In the ideal world we would all live like kings if desired. Being sentient beings, we can create that world, but there is little will to do so because of the irrational fear of losing what we have in the quest..

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    17. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely right and that's why it's a broken society. I am very much in agreement with you. What can we do about it? I find it hard to tell you because I find it hard to take.
      All around me are familiar faces, worn out places, worn out faces, bright and early for their daily races, going nowhere going nowhere. Their tears are filling up their glasses, no expression, no expression.
      No tomorrow.

      I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad. The dreams in which I am dying are the best I've ever had. I find it hard to tell you because I find it hard to take.

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    18. Re:Broken society by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      Have your union bargain for raises? Not in Wisconsin. And any other state that's enacting union stripping bills.

      The unions maybe seen as greedy, but this kind of bargaining is why unions are a good idea. Democracy in action.

    19. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 0

      Do you think it's in the best interests of western society and the large banks and corporations for the poorer nations to ever catch up with us? How can they catch up with us? The kind of contracts and deals made by western countries are usually detrimental to these societies. It's very much in our these big companies interests for them to be poor and begging to work for a dollar a day.

      The Silent Takeover is a good book for this kind of thing, globalisation is good for a select group of people. Hint: It's probably not us or these workers.

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    20. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      Were you replying to me? I like neither option of being disingenuous or being a moron...

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    21. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      I believe in zero-sum because it's human nature to exploit rather than co-operate in large populations. Co-operation and alturism works in small groups and has a synergistic effect and is better than zero-sum. When you expand the numbers to huge disparate groups like countries and institutions (like business or government) it's back to biological zero-sum survival.

      It's like I see these adverts for investment management and types of trading all the time. Don't these people watching these graphs that constantly go up constantly realise it's a zero-sum game?

      I'm not saying I like it but it's what happening. I wish we had co-operation and fair trade. Or did you forget your ~?

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    22. Re:Broken society by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I was replying to gnasher719 who was suggesting that since we have 4000 accidental work related deaths in the USA clearly the Chinese are doing just fine when it comes to worker safety.

      He is either being disingenuous or is a moron.

      It is possible that while I appear to have replied to the correct post slashdot is once again broken. I am using the classic view though.

    23. Re:Broken society by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      I happen to believe that synergy does scale, as shown by the negative synergy we are now living under. The authoritarianism is very global, and has deep roots. And it's not human nature, it's just plain natural animal psychology that overwhelms the 'rational' brain.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    24. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but then Apple wouldn't be able to make a 50% profit margin on each iToy sold.

    25. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Public sector unions and private sector unions are very different things. In the latter case, if they strangle the host that feeds them, they die. (Well, unless they can get a bailout from the feds.)

    26. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously the right way to do the math is 100,000/4 = per capita normalized 25,000 deaths in China.

      25,000/4,000 = 6.25 as many deaths in China.

      Therefore, Chinese are worth about 1/6th of an American... probably about what they are paid too.

    27. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In an ideal world manufacturing costs wouldn't be so imbalanced that it'd make sense to have an American company do its manufacturing on a different continent and then shipped across the Pacific Ocean. Things would be made locally because the only difference would be shipping costs.

    28. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in Houston and refinery accidents are pretty much an annual occurrence. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Refinery_explosion for a recent example where 15 people were killed and 170 injured, after the refinery had been cited multiple times for plant safety problems. Even after that accident, several people have been killed at the same refinery. Oh, and by the way, it's the same company that lost 17 workers and dumped millions of barrels of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

      Manufacturing iPads and laptops in the US will not guarantee safety. Odds are that safety-related spending would be cut even more to offset the higher wages.

    29. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Go back to your philosophy class.

    30. Re:Broken society by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      horseshit it would! it would cost the same to build, but there would be lower volumes and smaller profits, so the only reason is greed

    31. Re:Broken society by burisch_research · · Score: 1

      C-class Mercedes (all of them??) are manufactured in South Africa.

      --
      char*f="char*f=%c%s%c;main(){printf(f,34,f,34);}";main(){printf(f,34,f,34);}
    32. Re:Broken society by fnj · · Score: 1

      Your post looks like its replying to gnasher719 to me. Also the "parent" link leads to gnasher719. I agree slashdot's view can get squirelly.

    33. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This probably wouldn't happen in the western world because we have some expectation of safety and working conditions

      You mean like American coal mines? Haa haa Haaa Haaa Ha

    34. Re:Broken society by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      Apples to oranges. The USA is about 10% construction, manufacturing, farming, and mining jobs. In China it is not nearly so low. Although working at Walmart or McDonalds or wherever, people are occasionally get shot, fall off ladders, get hit by delivery vehicles, or get crushed by falling prices/boxes, construction and manufacturing jobs nevertheless maintain a much higher fatality rate, not just per employee, but overall (One in four workplace deaths is by a construction worker, but they are nowhere near 25% of the workers in the USA, not even close). So, you can't compare 300 million people to 1.2 billion people. You need to compare 12 million manufacturing jobs to 140 million manufacturing jobs. Any way you slice it, China has a higher accident rate. But considering the fact that they have ten times the jobs in the most dangerous industries, it's not the 500% increase you describe. Exactly how much higher is hard to calculate because of the various ways in which to do so. Possibly 60% higher.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    35. Re:Broken society by tsotha · · Score: 2

      I remember those "pre-Reagan" years. Everybody was demanding (and getting) raises. We were so good at it, by the time we got our raise our paycheck was worth the same as last week. Well, actually, it was worth a little less than last week, since wages for normal people never keep up during inflationary times. You had to be in one of those big industrial unions to stay ahead. And where was that money coming from? The rest of us, of course. There's a reason things changed, just like there's a reason Americans are generally anti-union and anti-inflation.

      Unions don't make everybody better off at the expense of greedy corporations. Of course companies don't care what wages are as long as their competitors are paying the same wages. They just raise the price of whatever it is they're making. What unions do is make union members better off at the expense of everybody else.

      Oh and yes, damn those people and their "ill-gotten non-taxed wealth." Wait, who were those people, exactly?

    36. Re:Broken society by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Uhhh...because the corps can dump the toxic sludge that is created manufacturing electronics out the back door? For all the libertarian and right wing talk of globalization and free markets the ugly truth is the multinationals are creating toxic sites that will make the American superfund sites (which We, The People got stuck with the bill for after the corps walked away) look like a park your kids can play in.

      Look up "India river toxic" to see how big pharma is dumping so many bad batches of drugs into their rivers nothing there is edible or drinkable from it (yet the poor still are) and in China? Jesus Tap Dancing Christ are they dumping the sludge. The pursuit of ever lower costs inevitably ends up with destroyed land, something we have a limited supply of, and poisoned water which we have even less potable water and it will only get worse.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    37. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because apple products are generally overpriced, it could be sold for the same price with apple having a slightly lower profit margin in the process (of course that wouldn't ever happen). Things are sold with fantasis prices that have no relation at all to labour or resource costs involved nowadays, think no further then some creative software suites for example.

    38. Re:Broken society by joh · · Score: 1

      Right around the corner where I live yesterday two people died on a building site when a wall fell. Didn't get much news, though.

    39. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      Maybe the families could claim some kind of compensation, especially if it was negligence of the company maintaining the wall and not a personal mistake. :-(

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    40. Re:Broken society by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      Except pouring toxic sludge into the river isn't the only reason why they're there. No one sane manufactures anything in india (labour laws there are nuts, you'd have a hard time making any money). It's not like dell phone support is pouring toxic sludge into the ganges. My family in india make between 1/10th and 1/2 of what an equivalent worker in canada would. Labour *is* cheaper there. And I might note someone getting half of a canadian salary in india is doing pretty damn well*

      The truth, insofar as people may wish to believe it, is that for all of the evils those multinationals are doing, they're also bringing with them huge improvements in standards of living. That doesn't make pouring toxic crap in rivers any better, but even without all that it's *still* cheaper to do business there. And they aren't ever going to catch up in terms of income or lifestyle if we just say 'oh well the risks of pollution are too much we won't let you have any business'. If anything those environmental problems are created because it's cheaper to bribe someone to let you dump it in india or africa than it is to actually clean it up. It's cheap to bribe someone because they're poor. That's sort of the point. The only way they're going to fix that is if people can both earn a decent wage honestly, and if that wage is enough that they can't be bribed for a pittance to sell out their own country.

      They (india and china) have spent 50 years living like it was 1800 but with some modern health care to ensure survivability (and crazy population growth). To be anything other than a billion poor starving people they *need* to be drawn into the modern world. Persistent aid destroys economies, and ultimately doesn't help them. They need to be able to make a living, and they can do that through trade. Whether they're making chairs in cottage industry, cotton, or computers they need to make something people want, and that requires investment and trade in this day and age.

      According to http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/economics-business/variable-638.html (data is only up until 2006) since 1971 the world went from a average per capita gdp of 929 to 7282. China went from a per capita gdp of 116 to 2002 - that's a HUGE improvement. That has come with enormous social and environmental costs, but it's a damn lot better than the preceding decades where their economies, despite being poor, actually grew slower than the world average. India's liberalization didn't start until 1991 so they're about 15 years behind, with much stupider labour laws so they probably won't grow as quickly.

      *bribes make these figures hard to count. Society is corrupt top to bottom.

    41. Re:Broken society by Sir_Sri · · Score: 2

      Given that my relatives are those workers. Yes, it's is definitely better for them. By leaps and bounds. Even comparing india of a decade ago with today. China is even more stark (as india is about 15 years behind china in development). In a decade they have gone from ~5% of our per capita income (on a PPP basis) to 15% (china that is), india went from about 2% to 5%, which is, in practice, still pretty big.

      Yes, it is in the interests of western society for the rest of the world to catch up. Ultimately their growth will benefit us all, more brains to come up with cool new stuff. Globalization *IS* good for them. It might be better for a bunch of rich corporate fat cats. But that doesn't mean it's isn't also good for them.

      They catch up with us as Germany, the US, Japan, Taiwan, South korea etc. all caught up with the leaders in their day: Trade, and a mostly free exchange of ideas. Which is what is happening more or less now with india and china. It's not perfect of course, but you can't take an area where average earnings are 3 or 4% of what they are here and expect it to be a smooth ride.

    42. Re:Broken society by toby · · Score: 1

      This probably wouldn't happen in the western world because we have some expectation of safety and working conditions

      No longer true, after decades of deregularisation pushed by those who profit most from unsafe labour conditions, heedless environmental emissions, unsafe and toxic products, etc.

      --
      you had me at #!
    43. Re:Broken society by skegg · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree more with parent.

      Despite the significantly higher wage rates in Germany AND the statutory 4 weeks annual leave AND 9 - 13 public holidays per annum, German companies are turning healthy profits and the country overall is quite strong.

    44. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      I understand your first point but surely it's in the interrest of the big business to keep these workers being paid as little as possible as it is cheaper for them? Western companies are probably dependent on cheap labour, they wouldn't want the cost of labour to go up. Of course you could argue that they would just find some other economy where labour is cheap...

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    45. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. It wouldn't be so much more.
      2. It makes sense because then we'd be employed / able to buy!

    46. Re:Broken society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well if you compare german apples to american apples it is a little different story. A friend of mine bought a 'german' auto, a golf I have to say it was the most crappy made car this side of a yugo I have seen in years!!! Now if you buy a decent 'german car 'cost around 150K' then it's a whole nother ball game!

    47. Re:Broken society by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Nah, it really depends on how much labor is involved. Most of the actual work involved in building a car is done by robots, not by humans. That's why you can afford to do it in Germany, or America.

      Other industries, like textiles, are so labor intensive that even China is having trouble competing with their 'high' labor costs. A lot of textile manufacturers have moved to Cambodia, for example. So now Chinese can complain about outsourcing, too.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    48. Re:Broken society by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You know what, there is more than enough work in America for every American. In fact, there is so much extra work, that Americans can't cover it all, and Mexicans and others have been coming (both legally and illegally) to do the job. In fact, more have been coming than the market will bear, and it's pushed down wages in a lot of industries.

      So we have a choice, we can either have the work done outside the country, or we can import people into the country to do the work. Because there aren't enough Americans to cover all the low-skilled labor needs we have.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    49. Re:Broken society by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      sure but going from 4% to 5% of 'average' western wages is a 25% raise. Sure some rich jackass in London or New York is getting 100x that amount. But it's still a 20% raise for the poor guy - and I dunno about you, but a 20% raise means a hell of a lot.

    50. Re:Broken society by improfane · · Score: 1

      Someone moderated your post (the one I reply to) and it came up in meta-moderation, it's an insightful observation. That probably makes the metamoderation system a bit biased. (I marked it insightful)

      The question is, will it continue? Western profits go up, will they pass on the profits in wages to these workers? Hopefully these workers and your relatives can acquire the autonomy to start businesses themselves and wean themselves of westerners. They are like a necessary evil I think!

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    51. Re:Broken society by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Did the accident affect the Apple iDevice supply chain? Probably not, therefore not as controversial to drag it through the press globally.

      Note: It is not my intention to play down the affect on family, friends and colleagues of the 2 workers cited above, instead to point out the laser bright spotlight all Apple-related news seems to attract.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  12. We are to blame. by pro151 · · Score: 2

    We demand that our toys be delivered quickly and at the lowest possible cost. We are not willing to pay a fair price for a product built by happy people earning a decent wage. You can blame Apple, Microsoft, Google or whichever company you choose but the blame rests squarely on our shoulders. Flame suit on.

    1. Re:We are to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We are not willing to pay a fair price for a product built by happy people earning a decent wage.

      Well DUH. Do you realize how many nice things you can have if you can only buy them from people making a decent wage? Yeah, not a whole lot. Read your history. Before making things in low cost geographies was economically possible, houses were smaller, families had one car, were lucky to have a TV, etc. Prices for luxury items (adjusted for inflation) were a lot higher. If we went back to those days (albeit with modern tech) most of the posters here on slashdot would disappear as they could not afford a computer and net access. Prosperity is always built on the backs of someone - I am just glad that (today at least) it isn't me.

    2. Re:We are to blame. by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      No flame, you're right. Consumers want cheap everything, where it comes from be damned. Likewise shareholders want to see short term results, long term be damned.

      --
      this is my sig
    3. Re:We are to blame. by LuxuryYacht · · Score: 1

      Aren't Apple products always higher priced than their competitors products with nearly identical features? I look at most Apple product consumers as people that are willing to pay far more for less features than other similar products.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
    4. Re:We are to blame. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I would be more than willing to pay 20% more, which is what one would be expecting based on other goods. I would even guess that at that point more automation would be used. Taco bell at least at one point was paying 1 cent per pound extra on tomatoes which resulted in farm workers nearly doubling their take home pay.

      Please tell me where I can spend my money to ensure I get "fair trade" computer components. I already buy first world made clothes, food made with the least amount of animal cruelty (I even have met the pigs on occasion) and try to ensure my coffee and chocolate are not supplied by those using slaves. I want to buy what you claim has no market, I am only waiting to find out where.

    5. Re:We are to blame. by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Bullshit, automation would be used if they could not exploit these folks. House sizes might shrink a little, but computers are cheap to make via automated processes. The models might change less often due to setup costs though.

    6. Re:We are to blame. by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      No, they're actually not. iPhone is priced the same as other premium cell phones. iPads are generally cheaper than roughly-equivalent pads from other manufacturers. Macbook Pros are about the same price as other high-end laptops from Lenovo and others for the same specs/form factor/battery life.

    7. Re:We are to blame. by wisty · · Score: 1

      Also, many of the bits for the iPad are made in Japan, or other rich countries.

    8. Re:We are to blame. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Which is a great place to get caps if you don't want them leaking:)

    9. Re:We are to blame. by Elviswind · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure it would be feasible to fully automate the final assembly. I'm not aware of any computers that are made via fully automated processes. Certain components are, of course, but not the final assembly. You still need thousands of dexterous human fingers to put everything together as the last step. You are correct about setup costs though; I wouldn't be surprised if it costs upwards of a $100 million to fully tool and automate a final assembly line like the iPad.

    10. Re:We are to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to agree on iPads and iPhone.
      However on the part of Laptops or Desktops I have to strongly disagree. Perhaps this is because I live in Europe but just quickly comparing the most expensive Macbook Pro to an Alienware M17X from dell yields a difference in price of about 600 Euro in favor of the Alienware. Also the Alienware actually dares to mention what GPU it has and gives you a choice in the matter while the apple store seems to omit the fact that there is a graphics card at all in the "customize" part of the process. a quick look back shows that it has a "AMD Radeon HD 6750M 1 GB GDDR5" vs. a "2 GB GDDR5 AMD® Radeon HD 6970M" with the Alienware. So if I dare to name it that makes the Macbook cost about 1/4th more than the Alienware and less powerful.
      Just to round this up I will chose a low-end Macbook and compare it to another offering:
      They seem to be ashamed to mention the display is just 13" because you have to click some extra tab to find that out. The Macbook costs ~1000 Euro, I'll compare it to Inspiron 15R which costs ~450 Euro. The Inspiron has "Intel® Core i3-380M Prozessor (3M cache, 2.53 GHz)" compared to "2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo" (not that there is no model name, it also has 3MB L2) , "3072MB 1333MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [1x1024 + 1x2048]" compared to "2 GB (2 x 1 GB SO-DIMMs)", it does also have bluetooth, ethernet, wifi and the like, a 15.6" screen and a 1.3MP webcam the macbook doesn't have. The Macbook however has a "NVIDIA GeForce 320M" with 256MB DDR3. This time apple costs more than twice as much while still being less powerful.
      Now can we just accept this as a fact and be done with it :)

    11. Re:We are to blame. by tepples · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the reason there are few to no sellers is that there aren't enough other people like you willing to buy such.

    12. Re:We are to blame. by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      So in every other market there are buying like me, but not in electronics?

      By the way, if you have never had pork that was raised the old fashioned way it is really great. Even better if they use a heritage breed. I highly suggest everyone seek out a farmer and buy a whole hog or split one with a neighbor.

    13. Re:We are to blame. by pro151 · · Score: 1

      Look at Wal-Mart with their "Made in America" campaign from years back. As soon as Sam Walton died, that disappeared seemingly overnight. I would gladly pay more for products "Made in America". (If there were any left). The 3 replies so far point out he fact that the great majority of people want cheap, not quality. (And no, I am not a union supporter before someone claims that I am)

    14. Re:We are to blame. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Where do you get the first world clothes? Local farms are easy enough to find, at least part of the year.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    15. Re:We are to blame. by DamienNightbane · · Score: 1

      I blame the government for not having the balls or integrity to use tariffs instead of an income tax like they did back when we weren't spending ourselves so deep into debt that we're going to need bathyscaphes just to drive to work.
       
      If tariffs make the cost of importing goods from countries with no protections for their workers like our domestic factories are required to have higher than the money saved by getting around those protections in the first place, the jobs will return and so will the wages.

    16. Re:We are to blame. by LuxuryYacht · · Score: 1

      No, they're actually not. iPhone is priced the same as other premium cell phones. iPads are generally cheaper than roughly-equivalent pads from other manufacturers. Macbook Pros are about the same price as other high-end laptops from Lenovo and others for the same specs/form factor/battery life.

      I'm not sure where you get your pricing from, but the Apple prices I find always seem to be at least 25% higher than equivalent products. Apple should be able to provide their suppliers with more money to better take care of their workers and workers at their contractors factories. This should be obvious by looking at Apple's earnings the last few quarters. Maybe this is how Apple thinks differently now?

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
    17. Re:We are to blame. by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Right, right. What those poor "exploited" folks need, instead of a crappy job, is no job at all! Won't everyone be so so much happier?

    18. Re:We are to blame. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, automation would be used if they could not exploit these folks. House sizes might shrink a little, but computers are cheap to make via automated processes. The models might change less often due to setup costs though.

      Bullshit, automation would already be used if it were really possible or more economically viable than paying decent wages. We're not there, yet.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    19. Re:We are to blame. by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      " We are not willing to pay a fair price for a product built by happy people earning a decent wage. You can blame Apple, Microsoft, Google or whichever company you choose but the blame rests squarely on our shoulders. Flame suit on."

      The opposite is true, in a capitalist society, capitalism is a race to the bottom. If you're not exploiting someone some other company will move in and do everything you are not to squeeze out every last cent. The competition between companies ensures that good companies are penalized, the idea that people are rational agents and choose is the greatest farce of free-market theory. It assumes way too much about how humans think or behave, they do not behave in moral ways they behave in accordance with the logic of the capitalist system.

      i.e. the way our society is set up is that it rewards it's most irresponsible members whether it be dumping garbage illegally or dumping waste into the environment. These are fundamental to capitalist mode of society.

    20. Re:We are to blame. by syousef · · Score: 1

      We demand that our toys be delivered quickly and at the lowest possible cost. We are not willing to pay a fair price for a product built by happy people earning a decent wage. You can blame Apple, Microsoft, Google or whichever company you choose but the blame rests squarely on our shoulders. Flame suit on.

      What a bunch of horseshit!!!

      Please point me to the toys made by "happy people earning a decent wage". Where's the iPad-highWageEdition or the Android-WageFriendly phone?

      I don't get to choose what companies charge for their product, or how they treat their staff, or dictate other terms. I only get to choose which company i buy a product from and shop around for price. Sure, I can go without, but a large majority would need to do that, AND explain why AND be willing to buy more expensive gadgets before anything changes. Frankly, I don't see anything happening without regulation and legislation. Feeling bad or blaming myself for the bad behaviour of companies doesn't help anyone and puts me at a huge disadvantage. Refusing to buy anything made cheaply is not workable at all. Even food is produced by low wage earners, so unless I'm willing to become Almish I'm not going to be able to avoid this. We should be pushing for greater protection on local wages and taxes and tarrifs for companies who do not pay well overseas.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    21. Re:We are to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well for starters, I know that New York has an AMD CPU fab... Google all kinds of plants I'd say ;)

    22. Re:We are to blame. by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      The Alienware M17X is 2 inches thick and weighs over 11 lbs with 2 hours of battery life. The 17" Macbook Pro is 1 inch thick and weighs less than 7 pounds while giving 5.5 hours of battery life.

      That's where your extra 600 Euros is going. Half the thickness, 3/5 the weight, and over twice the battery life.

    23. Re:We are to blame. by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Oh, and comparing a Macbook Pro to an Inspiron is laughable. Have you ever used an Inspiron? Maybe if you had compared to an XPS or Thinkpad, but an Inspiron? Come on man.

      The 15" Macbook weighs almost 2 pounds less than the 15R. The Macbook is smaller, lighter, and gives almost *twice* the battery life. The build quality advantage is enormous as well. The Inspiron 15R and 15" Macbook Pro are not comparable machines.

  13. Their "investigation" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their investigation: Marketing team figuring out how to avoid bad publicity.

    1. Re:Their "investigation" by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      In Capitalist West, high product prices kill you!
      In Communist China nothing kills you.
      ... Communism - helping America into the New Digital World

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Their "investigation" by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Foxxcom was rapidly dismantled to make way for glorious new tractor factory.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  14. Re:it can't happen here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just ask the workers @ Upper Big Branch mine:-(

  15. Just because by mrcvp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The worst thing about this story it that it would probably be unnoticed if it happened at any other factory in china. But now it's Foxconn and iPad 2 so now it's interesting.

    1. Re:Just because by peppepz · · Score: 1
      If telling these stories helps, even just a bit, to improve the working conditions of people in China, let's keep doing it.

      The worst thing about this story is that some people died.

    2. Re:Just because by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      The worst thing about this story it that it would probably be unnoticed if it happened at any other factory in china. But now it's Foxconn and iPad 2 so now it's interesting.

      On averge, Apple stories on Slashdot generate about 300 comments. Just for fun, take a look at the comment count on the non-Apple threads on the home page. Slashdot makes money from serving ads. What gets me is people actually take the summaries at face value and consider themselves 'informed', then they call for an iPad boycott to help FoxConn workers.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:Just because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you think that /. readers do not know that? The point is that:
      A) This is a nerd website;
      B) This informs nerds about what nerd products (like computers) are fabbed under horrible working conditions;
      C) Google you horrible Linux/Windows/Dell equivalent story and submit that as well.

      I'll bet that in no-time /. will be raving at Acer or something too... If only you care to submit ofcourse ;)

  16. The point being? by nicholas22 · · Score: 1

    I think the interest in publishing these stories stems from the contrast between the death and hardship suffered on the workers' side, as opposed to the blatant enjoyment and consumerism of using non-essential things like iPads, portraying a sort of class gap intending to elicit feelings of guilt. I have a rooted Android tablet (nook color); therefore I am entitled to feel good, twice!

    1. Re:The point being? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      How about instead of feeling useless guilt, you just be willing to pay a couple bucks more. Now point in feeling bad, just agree that you will be willing to toss in $5 extra for the Nook2 so these folks don't have to live like this.

    2. Re:The point being? by digitallife · · Score: 1

      No the interest in publishing these stories is Apple bashing. You hadn't noticed the 5-10 articles a day like this on /.? It's worse than the MS heyday.

    3. Re:The point being? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The MS articles are still there. Flame bait articles stir up site hits. This is why science articles largely go unnoticed around here.

    4. Re:The point being? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree with your points (including rooted Android), I don't think it's so much to do about consumerism but about a company (Apple) that charges enormous margins by squeezing both ends (consumer wallets and workers) until something breaks.

    5. Re:The point being? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      How about instead of feeling useless guilt, you just be willing to pay a couple bucks more. Now point in feeling bad, just agree that you will be willing to toss in $5 extra for the Nook2 so these folks don't have to live like this.

      How is that supposed to work? Pay the extra $5 and they'll just put it in their pocket and keep using exploited labor.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  17. Some assembly required by Tinctorius · · Score: 1

    Let's go back to the Sinclair model: we assemble our own gizmos. Really, it's more fun than unboxing, and it gives an opportunity for the geeks to interact with people who can't assemble the things by themselves.

    1. Re:Some assembly required by Duradin · · Score: 1

      I value my time and like not having to deal with basement dwellers any more than I have to, so let's not go back to the Sinclair model.

  18. man that was wrong as hell by decora · · Score: 1

    but dead-on funny satire

  19. Massey coal mine? by decora · · Score: 2

    dude that happened like last year, more than 20 people got killed

  20. thingiverse.com by decora · · Score: 1

    enjoy! right now all they have is like the stuff you could buy at Dollar Tree , but i think its only a matter of time.

  21. if you asked a foxxcon worker... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they might say their working conditions are inhumane. If you asked a stockholder, they might say who cares. (cue apple logo)

  22. Are the iPads OK? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Over a billion people in China so plenty more of them - they're expendable.

    Jobs should keep some of the injured on life support so he has a supply of organs just in case - he owes it to us shareholders.

  23. the 2 killed will be listed as suicides so foxconn by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 0

    the 2 killed will be listed as suicides so foxconn does not pay out on there death.

  24. Foxconn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Foxconn ? Is it owned by Rupert Murdoch?

  25. Headline is wrong by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    Wait, didn't you mean "EXPLODEY at APPLE factory that only builds APPLE stuff and APPLE totally controls and really, really does not build stuff for anyone else and we're totally not just tying it to APPLE for page hits!"

  26. this is getting old fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we please get off Foxconn for those with too much free time on their hands.
    I live in a large North American city, and if you follow the media, there has not been a suicide in this city EVER, that's how happy everyone is here in the west. I honestly don't know why the city blew a shitload of tax revenue on suicide prevention fencing on bridges, etc.
    Oh but there was a worker crushed to death in an industrial accident here, but unfortunately no international news outlet picked it up.

  27. reports are blaming it on a smoking worker? by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 0

    reports are blaming it on a smoking worker? sounds like a cover up / pushing the blame on workers for likely a cost cutting lack of repair to the machines that are used.

    1. Re:reports are blaming it on a smoking worker? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Unlike here in the west(US/Cdn/Europe/etc), smoking is still a pretty common thing in asian countries. And so is smoking on the job unless you work in an office building. So it really wouldn't surprise me a single bit.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:reports are blaming it on a smoking worker? by moortak · · Score: 1

      If smoking on the job is common and allowed at the factory it should be set up so that a smoking employee doesn't cause an explosion.

      --
      Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
    3. Re:reports are blaming it on a smoking worker? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      China doesn't exactly have a glowing reputation for safety standards. And what safety standards exist can be 'greased away' by paying the proper people.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:reports are blaming it on a smoking worker? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Its got a lot to do with the culture and technical savvy of the population. We're still trying to keep immigrants from firing up a barbecue indoors for heat during the winter. Or not run generators in closed garages.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  28. Rupture? You don't know rupture. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    As millions of Apple FanBois (on iPad waiting list) cried out in pain and then abruptly silenced.

  29. Apple is the only company doing something about it by FFFFFFffffffffffff!! · · Score: 1

    Why as soon as a Foxconn story breaks out the Apple bashing start? I don't care for the company, but they seem to be the only actually trying to do something about it when these articles hit the news, while you never hear a thing from the executives of all the other companies who manufacture their product there.

  30. Your iMac guarantees it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reminder: TODAY IS JUDGEMENT DAY. Cry onto almighty Jobs!

  31. A clear sign of the Rapture! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Punishing those who worship false iDols by creating a minor production inconvenience at one of their factories! Repent! Repent!

  32. not likely... by romanval · · Score: 1

    especially with all the complains of non-Apple tablets being overpriced compared to the iPad--- when being cheaper then Apple is considered to be the primary reason of buying a non-Apple tablet in the first place.

    As it is, all the non-iPad competitors are having a touch time matching Apple's price & feature set as it is.. So an Android tablet entirely made in the U.S.A.? It would probably cost something like $5000.

    1. Re:not likely... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No way, labor prices are just not that high. The Asus transform is 399 and better than an ipad 2 spec wise. Asus can't keep them in stock. Your fanboism is showing.

    2. Re:not likely... by romanval · · Score: 0

      And where is ASUS making their tablets? Oh wait.. NOT IN AMERICA.

  33. Broken society... which? by hackingbear · · Score: 1

    So the BP oil platform explosion didn't happen and killed nobody. It must be a conspiracy theory by the anti-Western propagandists. Thank you for telling us about that.

    1. Re:Broken society... which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the BP oil platform explosion didn't happen and killed nobody. It must be a conspiracy theory by the anti-Western propagandists. Thank you for telling us about that.

      No, the point is it wasn't the Apple oil platform explosion. If you can't link it to Apple somehow, it doesn't matter.

  34. Problems at Foxconn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know their products are pretty good quality, but working there is nearly as much fun as working in Indonesia for NIKE in the 1970's: "No suicides. The boss will administer daily beatings till morale improves. Oh, and we've set up an employee challenge program: we will hire someone new for your job and train them. Then you and the new hire will compete for your job. Whoever creates the most perfect pieces in the shortest time wins (and gets to keep the job). Oh, and your pay will be cut by 20%. Remember, your no-suicide contract is in force even if you are fired or let go, for up to 1 week. After that, you may kill yourself if you wish. We have also decided to deduct pay from employees we are letting go, and some may have to repay the company for wages paid because the company can't tell when you productivity started to slip. Also, if you wish to be re-hired anytime in the future, you will forfeit you last months pay back to the company. Also, we reserve the right to fire any employee instead of promoting you or giving more money for experience and long service in order not to have to pay any more money. We will reconsider re-hiring long-term experienced employees (provided the last months salary is forfeited back to the company) and will take prior experience into account in hiring, but will restart wages for previous long term employees at entry level." -- Thank you, Foxconn.

  35. iChinese 2... by BlueTemplar · · Score: 0

    So, Apple, how the iChinese 2 is working out for you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wspKdYPQ5q4 (It's in French, but you'll probably get the point...)

  36. completely wrong by circletimessquare · · Score: 1, Informative

    economics is not a zero sum game, where someone must lose so that someone else must win. economics is a more-for-everyone game. the chinese are enjoying more prosperity than they had before. you are assuming if they weren't manufacturing iPads their life would be better. compared to the usa, indeed, their life is worse, right now. but it would be even more worse without this plant

    the chinese are where the usa and great britain were in the 1800s. and they are already fighting for their rights, like workers in the west had to to enjoy protections:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/09/business/global/09labor.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

    the chinese will eventually become just as prosperous as the usa, eventually, if not surpassing the usa, as soon as workers start fighting for their rights. but you don't get something by not fighting for it in this world

    and you don't become economically prosperous by doing nothing. and you certainly don't get to complain about not having something that someone else has because you are doing nothing while the prosperous are doing something that made them prosperous. the chinese know that, why don't you?

    the end game of globalization is prosperity for everyone. of course that's not painless. but stopping globalization perpetuates inequalities, it doesn't solve them

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:completely wrong by improfane · · Score: 1

      Economics in our modern society is zero sum because an exchange of goods does not actual reflect the value of labour added on either side. Its not a proper market, it's a market that has been constrained by vested interests.

      Globalisation would be nice if we were on the same side. Right now it's ruining the lives of many peple. I am sure there are plenty of countries that would appreciate no vested US interest that corrupts their governments and makes natural competition an impossibility.

      In an idealistic world, economics would always benefit both sides of the exchange. In practice, it doesn't.

      --
      Slashdot needs Geekcode | Can anyone recommend any good SCIFI? My tastes: Foundation, Startide Rising, CITY, Ringworld,
    2. Re:completely wrong by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      the reason country (X) is not as rich as country (Y) is because country (X) has a value system and/ or government that is ineffective. part of the reason why things remain this way is that country (X) will invent imaginary stories about the evils of country (Y) rather than getting their fucking act together and taking some fucking responsibility for their sorry fucking attitude

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  37. To all posts scored funny: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    People died. It's not funny,

  38. Workers? by theNAM666 · · Score: 1

    Who gives a darn? How many baby iPads were damaged? Will they survive? How are they doing and what are their prospects for recovery?

  39. Behind the explosion - flammable dust ignited by MacTechnic · · Score: 1

    Preliminary reports from m.i.c. gadget (an off-shore China news site, which is not subject to China goverment. censorship) say that the explosion occurred in a part of the assembly line, where the workers use a flammable dust to polish iPad screens. It is believed that a worker, who was smoking a cigarette in a prohibited area, caused the explosion. Access to the building is limited right now until the risk of secondary explosions can be minimized.
    See this local article at fortune.com
    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/05/21/inside-the-apple-ipad-factory/

    Pretty obvious what happaned. Safety standards for the operating assembly line will need to be reviewed and enforced. As for the impact on iPad2 output remains to be seen, but preliminary reports at the Apple store speculate that wait times for iPad2 may go up 1-2 weeks. Since most of the iPad2 manufacturing was based in Chengdu, one will have to see what subsequent effect this explosion will have on manufacturing capacity.

  40. Bullshit from somebody not paying attention by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Workplace deaths happen in every country. Over three year period one large steelworks I worked in lost four people to forklifts, three to carbon monoxide and two to a steam explosion in a great big container full of molten steel and scrap. Bad as that is the construction and mining industries have much higher death tolls.

  41. New slogan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iPad 2 - It's the bomb.

  42. Ipad2 production is BOOMING by DrStoooopid · · Score: 1

    (the joke is in the title) ...but it makes one wonder. Sure they had to sign a "I will not kill myself" pledge.....but they never signed a "I will not cause an industrial accident so my family can collect the insurance" pledge.

    --
    There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
  43. Re:zero-sum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > institutions (like business or government) it's back to biological zero-sum survival.

    no, we invented institutions (u 4got 2 mention religion;-) to transcend our baser animal instincts...that we have failed to achieve perfection is no reason to give up the good fight...and wishing has never gotten anybody very far...

  44. Foxconn complaints about Apple by nobodie · · Score: 1

    A few months ago there was a widely read story here (in China) that I saw poke its head above the horizon in the west as well about Chinese manufacturers complaining about Apple's requirements on them relating to iPad 2 manufacturing and worker safety. Please understand that I see people everyday at the market or (for example today at Aushan, a hypermarket) just on the street who are suffering from work related disabling injuries from burns to loss of limbs. The worker laws here are mostly non-existent, so when a manufacturer complains then it means something is bad. Why? the general rule here is that a human life in a factory is worth about 10,000 RMB (divide by @6.6 to get equivalent dollars, or @9.0 for Euros). So a major factory explosion does cost the factory something and that is what they wanted to avoid: death and disability.

    They failed.

    Apple, I'm sure, is very distraught about this.

    --
    Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
  45. how about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "i-died-for-an-ipad2"?

  46. An iPad 2 maker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    now needs 2 eye pads.