Slashdot Mirror


Robots Retrieve Your Books At U. Chicago's $81 Million Library

kkleiner writes "The University of Chicago's new $81 million Joe and Rika Mansueto Library is being referred to as the library of the future. You enter the library and find there are hardly any books, just a large reading room with computers. The library's 3.5 million books are stored inside 35,000 bins stacked within 50 foot tall racks in a massive 5-story chamber underneath the library. When you ask for a book an automated retrieval system involving huge, computer-activated robotic cranes finds the book you want, delivers it to the circulation desk, and eventually puts it back underground when you return it." The age of the personal-shopping library robot is getting closer and closer.

202 comments

  1. Hey, I have one of those too! by Trip6 · · Score: 2

    It's called a Kindle...

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Kindle and a Kobo here (bought and given, respectively). Not everyone has the means to afford devices like this however. While I love my Kindle, I also like the tactile feel of a good leather bound book while reading in front of my fireplace.

      Then again, I still write with a fountain pen, so YMMV.

      Get off my lawn, etc...

    2. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      NONFREE
      NONFREEDOM
      DOH!

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    3. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      There's a good chance a lot of the 3.5 million books in this library are not available as eBooks and therefore a Kindle is not a perfect replacement yet. For personal use with readily available material, however, a Kindle is an awesome device.

    4. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      How much would it have cost to Digitize everything for the Kindle? Contract Google and reCAPTCHA and get everything digitized. It'd probably fit into a single 3.5" hard drive. Books really don't making sense in this situation. Especially spending 81M on a big storage unit. What happens when the water barrier fails and takes out the entire library?

    5. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      This was my first reaction... the "library of the future" is already here, it's called the Internet.

    6. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by muindaur · · Score: 1

      Along with the fact that not everyone can afford a kindle, or the price tag on some books. It's not like I can spend $100 on a book just for a college paper, or for research developing a solution for a comp sci project (like an assignment to create a web-app for medical research.) Then there are the many journal archives one might need access too that some places can't afford to scan.

      Yes, the Kindle is awesome, but lacks the pass around features paper books have (it's a friend/family tradition with books) besides the other issues.

    7. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by goodmanj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does the Internet have a copy of "Proceedings and plans for the completion of the Chicago, St. Paul & Fond du Lac Rail-Road, from Chicago to Oshkosh", published in 1859? (http://pi.lib.uchicago.edu/1001/cat/bib/3577896) No? Didn't think so. How about "Sturiella minor: a fossil plant showing structure from the Carboniferous of Illinois", a UChicago student thesis from 1924? (http://pi.lib.uchicago.edu/1001/cat/bib/4512895) No? Didn't think so.

      If your response is "who would ever need to know that kinda crap?", you don't understand the first thing about academic research. If your response is "why not just digitize these and put them online?" then you'll be glad to know that they built a digitization lab as part of this new library to do exactly that. But that work takes time. Years.

      The Internet is great, but some things aren't on the Internet. Some things are very very hard to put on the Internet, due to copyright issues, age issues, and manpower problems. The Internet, for all its glory, often actually *reduces* the variety of information available: have you noticed that when you Google something, the first hit is Wikipedia, and the rest of the page is people plagiarizing Wikipedia? It's crucial that information networks from the past be integrated into the network of the present, or we stand to lose our history.

      For more on this, read "Rainbow's End" by Vernor Vinge.

    8. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit. Copyright has expired on these books: prove your claim by posting a link to them.

      I have a feeling your ebook site has a page for the book titles, but not the books themselves.

    9. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Books really don't making sense in this situation. Especially spending 81M on a big storage unit. What happens when the water barrier fails and takes out the entire library?

      Yea hardcover books never make sense. Should be all digital. Like what would happen if a tsunami hit and took out the nuclear power grid? How would we read the hardcover books? Digital is way bett ... Oh wait. Never mind.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    10. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Eighty one million dollars can pay to scan a lot of books.

      Probably with enough left over to subsidize Kindles, iPads, etc.

      What moron would even think of doing this kind of thing?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    11. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your response is "why not just digitize these and put them online?" then you'll be glad to know that they built a digitization lab as part of this new library to do exactly that. But that work takes time. Years.

      Wrong. It would require a lot of person-years... which can be accomplished in a very short time with a sufficient number of people on the task.

      81 million dollars would buy a LOT of person-years.

      --
      I was 93 Escort Wagon, and may someday be again... if Slashdot ever fixes their login bugs

    12. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may not have it, but it should have it. Instead of wasting vast amounts of money on moving paper back and forth, U. Chicago should scan this stuff.

    13. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by dugeen · · Score: 1

      What, so Amazon can have books removed from the U of C library without warning? and they can take the notes the students have made too?

    14. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      It's called a Kindle...

      But they have built the ultimate robotic buggy whip.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    15. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Internet, for all its glory, often actually *reduces* the variety of information available: have you noticed that when you Google something, the first hit is Wikipedia, and the rest of the page is people plagiarizing Wikipedia?"

      That's not really fair. Technically it's Google that's doing that reduction, by not recognizing plagiarized/repeated stuff. But worse than that are all the spam sites that just serve up scraps of bogus content to show ads in association with whatever you are looking for, intentionally degrading the quality of search results. They don't point to the real article, just useless bits of it with a few key search terms. They seem to be more and more common in technical searches, even really obscure ones like the Sturiella fossil fern reproductive parts that you mention, and that are now regarded as a junior synonym of Scolecopteris Zenker 1837. I'm not sure what happened to that particular species (Sturiella minor) because theses aren't usually regarded as valid publications in a biological nomenclature sense. Theses are fairly low on the priority list for digitization compared to widely-distributed but old publications. Anyway, it is a slow process, but a lot of 1800s-vintage, out-of-copyright stuff is finding its way onto the Internet, and in that sense things are becoming more accessible. But it will take a long time to get everything out there.

    16. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vending machines have been around for quite a while, even media vending like redbox. I see nothing out of the ordinary here.

      Library: We have new robots to retrieve your books!
      Coke Machine: We have had robots to retrieve your sodas for over 50 years.
      Library: Oh.
      Coke Machine: Get off my lawn!

    17. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Eberlin · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Working at the local history room of a library, I tend to cringe when people blindly ask "who needs a library these days?" We're working on digitizing a lot of things and putting them up online. I've been at it for a few years and with all the stuff we have, it almost seems like we've barely started. Among other things, we're currently trying to digitize a subject index of the local newspaper(s) spanning from the 1890s to the early 1990s. The index was originally done with index cards and is housed in an old card catalog. Nowhere near done, we're already reaping benefits from being able to do keyword searches for names not listed as the subject.

      Then there are the local yearbooks and city directories, old maps, a school-published book on a town that doesn't exist anymore, history on local banks (now gone), and some information on the people behind the local street names. But yeah, there's still a lot of people out there who believe we don't need libraries anymore.

    18. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does the Internet have a copy of "Proceedings and plans for the completion of the Chicago, St. Paul & Fond du Lac Rail-Road, from Chicago to Oshkosh", published in 1859? (http://pi.lib.uchicago.edu/1001/cat/bib/3577896) No? Didn't think so. How about "Sturiella minor: a fossil plant showing structure from the Carboniferous of Illinois", a UChicago student thesis from 1924? (http://pi.lib.uchicago.edu/1001/cat/bib/4512895) No? Didn't think so.

      If your response is "who would ever need to know that kinda crap?", you don't understand the first thing about academic research. If your response is "why not just digitize these and put them online?" then you'll be glad to know that they built a digitization lab as part of this new library to do exactly that. But that work takes time. Years.

      The Internet is great, but some things aren't on the Internet. Some things are very very hard to put on the Internet, due to copyright issues, age issues, and manpower problems.

      Well, since they spent $43,000 per book in their library, they could have easily contracted out digitizing everything in their library and had it done within 1 year tops. I would have just said: "You buy a copy of whatever book we have using your own money and if you are the first to digitize it, and it meets our quality standards, then we will pay you like $20,000." Then, there would be the great book digitization gold rush. For the other $32.5 million, they could have worked with Amazon or Barnes and Noble, or Google, or someone to have an e-reader which would have DRM and enforce only one copy being electronically checked out at any one time. In fact, Amazon would probably do it for free just so you would use their e-readers and give people the option to return the book to the library and buy the book from Amazon instead if it were available.

    19. Re:Hey, I have one of those too! by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      Math fail. You're off by a factor of 2000. Try again.

  2. Big Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    We have had one of those at Sonoma State University for about 10 years now.

    1. Re:Big Deal by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      1) Your library has 1/4 as much storage.
      2) Your library doesn't look like this:

      http://www.uchicago.edu/features/20110520_mansueto/

    2. Re:Big Deal by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So now we know why the cost if education keeps outpacing inflation by double digits. Because idiot administrators have no interest in education, rather, they wan to build giant monuments to themselves.

      I look forward to the day that major university after major university goes bankrupt due to their profligate spending on crap like this.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    3. Re:Big Deal by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "We have had one of those at Sonoma State University for about 10 years now."

      What? One of those papery blogs Granny talks about?

    4. Re:Big Deal by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Indeed. These kinds of robots are seriously old hat - they've been around a couple of decades now.

    5. Re:Big Deal by rnturn · · Score: 1

      There is such a thing as too much natural light. I'd bet that there are days when the glare in that library would make attempting to read anything nearly impossible. And moving enough air through that greenhouse^Wreading room to keep it cooled on a sunny day would cause enough noise to be one hell of a distraction. The architect probably has never spent much time in a library.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    6. Re:Big Deal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Why would you want a library to look like that? There's way too many people in that room.

      Back when I was in college, when I went to the library to read stuff, I found chairs or tables that were nestled in the stacks of books, where there was no one around. It was easy to find such secluded spots to study in a big library where all the space was devoted to stacks of books, not some fancy automated system and an annoying "reading room" where you have to listen to everyone's noise.

      At least, however, the reading room in the photo looks like everyone there is civilized and quiet. Here in Phoenix, at all the public libraries, this isn't the case at all. The poorer people use the libraries here as hang-outs because of the free internet access, and they let their little brats run wild. Other people talk on their cellphones loudly, or have loud conversations with their companions. The days of libraries being quiet places are long gone, at least for public libraries.

    7. Re:Big Deal by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I forgot to mention the libraries here have armed police stationed at them to keep the peace and keep gangbangers from starting stuff.

    8. Re:Big Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DC central library has had them since 1975.

  3. Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is not news at all, there are multiple of this same system all over the country and has been for a few years now. Even my crappy school in Nevada has had the same thing for almost 3 years now.

    http://knowledgecenter.unr.edu/libraries/kc/about/mars.aspx

    1. Re:Old News by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      I love the "Excluded from inclusion in MARS are:" title, especially from a university. They probably mean the documents have been included in the exclusion list for MARS inclusion ?

      Fortunately, the MARS mechanic robots can take advantage of the university level of altitude to fetch books at a high rate of speed.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    2. Re:Old News by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 1

      This is not news at all, there are multiple of this same system all over the country and has been for a few years now. Even my crappy school in Nevada has had the same thing for almost 3 years now.

      http://knowledgecenter.unr.edu/libraries/kc/about/mars.aspx

      I'm building the new library renovation at San Francisco State, and they have a new system just like it, too. I wonder why Chicago's is getting so much press lately. The one at SFSU is pretty much exactly the same (also made by HK Systems).

  4. Ambivalent by DirePickle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Robots are cool.

    Wandering the stacks and reading random books is fun.

    Going to the location of a book and looking at the books around it for other options is a necessity.

    1. Re:Ambivalent by martin-boundary · · Score: 2
      That's actually a function of the skill of the librarian. You're depending on the cataloging system to ensure that similar books end up next to each other on the same shelf.

      If you had a list of books (say electronic editions or scanned) and if you could order them in the same way that they are ordered on the library shelf, then you could browse a book's neighbourhood just the same.

    2. Re:Ambivalent by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      It could in theory be duplicated online.

    3. Re:Ambivalent by bryan1945 · · Score: 2

      Robots are cool.
      Wandering the stacks and reading random books is fun.
      Going to the location of a book and looking at the books around it for other options is a necessity.

      What we need is to combine these options. -Riding- the robot into the stacks and perusing! Especially if the robot were shaped like ponies!

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    4. Re:Ambivalent by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      Setting up physical stacks so you can browse through them is a hardware solution to a software problem. Your average Slashdot reader could easily modify a library search engine so when you click on a book, it shows you a sidebar containing several books a semi-random distance away in Library of Congress number.

    5. Re:Ambivalent by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Setting up physical stacks so you can browse through them is a hardware solution to a software problem.

      That is so totally ass backwards I actually laughed out loud.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    6. Re:Ambivalent by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      I'd be very curious to see how this system deals with peak load. Say, for some class a new assignment is given. You often find that all the students will start getting books in that area.

      If it takes 5 minutes for every request, could see some big issues starting to pop up. I wonder if other students taking items from the 'bin' will muck things up? Are the bins even sorted by category, or just randomly?

      Or even ignoring people trying to get books in the same area, in busy operating conditions, will this slow down to a crawl with 45 minute long waits to get a book?

    7. Re:Ambivalent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's in the works at Chicago--a virtual shelf browse. I don't think it's out of alpha yet.

    8. Re:Ambivalent by mzs · · Score: 1

      "Wandering the stacks and reading random books is fun."

      Having sex in the reg stacks was fun even before it was a meme, in fact when that word meant something only to the linguistic concentrators. Now robot stack sex on the other hand sounds like the name of some genetic algorithm on the other hand, not much fun at all really.

  5. Great for retrieving a specific book by kevinmenzel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But what I enjoy about say, going to one of the many libraries that my school operates - is having a list of a few books I want to check out, and browsing around where those books are found, finding additional books on the subject. This helps me find further research sources. I'm not sure how common that would be in all programs, but in History, it's quite a bit beneficial, or at least it has been for me...

    1. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it is beneficial in any discipline. I did the same as a student of computer science and math.

    2. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Hermanas · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the library will have an electronic directory (with some sort of suggestion system) exactly for that reason, seeing as how they already have the database needed to run the robots.

      But I do agree, browsing books on the shelf often leads to discovery of new books on the subject in my field too.

    3. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by fotoguzzi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Some libraries have closed stacks and offsite storage, so perusing the entire collection is already impossible in some cases.

      --
      Their they're doing there hair.
    4. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by CRCulver · · Score: 2

      My university library has placed some (and only some) books in a closed stack while larger facilities are being built, and it's apologizing profusely for the inconvenience. Closed stacks are not seen a desirable longterm situation in these parts.

    5. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by blair1q · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yup. Nothing like taking a book off the shelf, flipping through a few pages, putting it back, taking it off the shelf, flipping through a few pages, discovering something you want to read more about, and adding it to the back-breaking pile you have on the nearest table.

    6. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by rpillala · · Score: 1

      The library online catalog where I live has a feature called "search nearby on the shelf" that shows you the books around your search result. If this kind of data is already being indexed, it seems like a simple matter to make a virtual representation of the shelf that you can browse with a mouse or a touch interface. It's not the same as being there but it can be approximated.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
    7. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the library will have an electronic directory

      Sounds nice in theory, but unfortunately all of the electronic directories I've ever encountered suck when compared to browsing.

      The problem is "Googilization". Organization is being dumped for search. Think of Gmail's approach to email. Instead of having an externally imposed, manual curation of hierarchical order, people are increasingly building everything to be a flat database where the interface is searching for specific information. You search "American Revolutionary War", and all books which mention/refer to/have the phrase "American Revolutionary War" pop up. The database vomits up all the results it has, including "Quilting during the American Revolution", but then misses the fact that some other book is about the "American War of Independence". Whereas a decent librarian would put all the quilting books together, and then all the American History books together, etc. Not only don't most modern electronic directories have that curation, they supplier will tell you you're silly for even wanting it. "You don't need this thing that you've relied on for years" - somehow you were delusional when you've found it useful in the past. (Or maybe they'll have that info in the form of LC or Dewey Decimal numbering, but will make it a bear to jump through all the hoops to actually *use* it.)

      Then the interfaces to library catalogs tend to be crap too. I have no clue how those databases and search engines are structured, but it *always* takes five-ten seconds of nothing happening to get the next page of results (and they always think 10 results per page is just fine, and can't fathom someone wanting more). And then five-ten seconds to look at the individual book's page (because there's precious little info on the main result page). I find that skimming the books on the shelf is much quicker and more satisfying than sifting through the results of electronic directory search.

      That's not to say that an electronic interface *couldn't* be as good or better than a physical shelf interface. It's just that it'd take programers who bother to accommodate alternate ways of approaching the catalog, and don't just shove a half-assed Google-like interface on top while poo-pooing people who want something different, saying that they don't really need what they want. -- So, yeah, it'll never happen.

       

    8. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding. I was just about to say the same thing for the sciences. This is the death of shelf browsing unless they build in some kind of additional "next book on the shelf" interface. I suppose we could just tell the bots "and give me the next 20 books on either side of this one", but I'm guessing it's going to be a lot slower than the conventional approach.

    9. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The books in the robot aren't going to be the ones you want to browse on the shelves--they are the endless bound serials, government financial statistics, etc. Moving them makes room to browse the stuff you want in the main library stacks.

    10. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Fnordulicious · · Score: 2

      > Then the interfaces to library catalogs tend to be crap too.

      This is mostly because the world of university-level library management systems (a.k.a. integrated library systems) is heavily dominated by Voyager which was from Endeavor Information Systems and now is in the hands of the Ex Libris Group. There are a number of open source alternatives, but you can't seriously expect a big institution to use anything that doesn't require a huge contract for installation and support.

    11. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by hawguy · · Score: 1

      The library online catalog where I live has a feature called "search nearby on the shelf" that shows you the books around your search result. If this kind of data is already being indexed, it seems like a simple matter to make a virtual representation of the shelf that you can browse with a mouse or a touch interface. It's not the same as being there but it can be approximated.

      It may be approximated, but it's a poor approximation.

      The strength of being able to browse nearby books isn't just looking at the titles, but in being able to pick one up and flip through it and see if it's interesting. It's not quite the same if you see an interesting title, then have to wait 10 minutes for the robot to retrieve it for you.

      Since they say each book bin holds around 100 titles, they could simulate this by putting the books into LC classification order in the book bin and letting you browse the whole bin.

    12. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Yup. Nothing like looking for a book and, finding it missing from where it should be, having to search for five feet in each direction just to make sure some random browser didn't just shove it back into place.

    13. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by JambisJubilee · · Score: 1

      My question would be, why aren't these things in digital form? If you've ever done any research, you'll know the signal to noise ratio can be quite low. It usually takes me scanning through 15-20 works before I find what I want. And to have to wait an hour to get your collection doesn't work.

      I say, have the stacks if you want the physical copy. But everything should be digitized and searchable.

    14. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by rnturn · · Score: 1

      My question would be, why aren't these things in digital form?

      Maybe because it's much more impressive on the evening news for viewers to see pallets of bound printed government reports, statistics, and budget proposals being shipped to eagerly awaiting citizens and legislators. Seeing a box of CD-ROMs schlepped around would be boring. Showing a video of the government website and the link where you can download the documents would be even less impressive.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    15. Re:Great for retrieving a specific book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what I enjoy about say, going to one of the many libraries that my school operates - is having a list of a few books I want to check out, and browsing around where those books are found, finding additional books on the subject. This helps me find further research sources. I'm not sure how common that would be in all programs, but in History, it's quite a bit beneficial, or at least it has been for me...

      North Carolina State University is building a similar system in their new Centennial Campus library. From what I have heard, they are including the ability to virtually look at the shelf where the book would be (were it on a shelf with others) including the books that would be next to it/nearby.

      Also, the area of Centennial Campus where the new library is located is right next to the new engineering buildings while the humanities buildings are on the main campus next to the older library. I imagine they will separate out the resources in the two libraries to match the greatest need at the given area. In engineering, we are more likely than history folks to be looking for a particular book or set than those in history, so the robotic retrieval system makes sense.

  6. And this is why tuition rates are out of control.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is very cool, but come on! People are struggling to afford college for their kids, and universities waste money like this?! Sorry, we have to raise tuition another 5%, we have to pay off this robotic library. And people complain about the oil companies...

  7. Utah Man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have the same thing at the University of Utah. We've had it for a couple of years now.

  8. Removes more than it adds by oursland · · Score: 2

    This system caters to the individual who knows exactly which book they want, but what about us who like to have an idea, go to the section and browse around? I have frequently gone to the library with a vague idea of what I'm looking for and leaving with books for that topic, related topics and often just something that caught my eye. This "progress" undermines a lot of the value that a library presents.

    Besides, if I know exactly what I want, I can use my computer and Amazon to get most things without being inconvenienced with leaving my home or office.

    1. Re:Removes more than it adds by NoSig · · Score: 1

      So paper has better search than bits? Not on the planet I'm living on.

    2. Re:Removes more than it adds by oursland · · Score: 1

      Not all books are for factual information storage and transfer. Search is great for information retrieval, but doesn't convey a story.

    3. Re:Removes more than it adds by Haffner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a University of Chicago student, something that I think many people won't take into consideration here is how the library is geared toward the student body. The majority of students use the library as a place to work, rather than a place to get books. And honestly, as someone who does a fair amount of (economic) research, I don't even go to the library until I know what book I'm going to get (I have access to the online library catalog). I think most students view the new library as a cool new place to do work, rather than another place to find books at.

      --
      "Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion." ~General Norman Schwarzkopf
    4. Re:Removes more than it adds by CycleMan · · Score: 1

      Personally, I love electronic search engines for the ability to get me exactly to exactly what I want. But until all books in libraries are full-digital and full-searchable, I like the browse feature. The Dewey Decimal system means that when I get interested in a subject because of one book, I can find similar books to expand my understanding. So when I know exactly what I want, bits are great. When I know sortof what I want, then the library is great. It also helps that I am cheap and when I don't know exactly what I want, I am not a perfectionist, so the library's limited options are easier for me to select from than the nearly unlimited set at Alibris.

    5. Re:Removes more than it adds by goodmanj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Keep in mind, this is not really a book library. UChicago says it will "primarily house materials like serials, periodicals, and other materials that are already online, as well as rare and fragile materials that should not be kept on open shelves"

      Which is to say, stuff you wouldn't go browsing for anyway.

    6. Re:Removes more than it adds by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      When you are wandering around in a library looking at random books in the same section.. yes, it can be a better search.

      You should try it sometime.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    7. Re:Removes more than it adds by nthwaver · · Score: 1

      So paper has better search than bits? Not on the planet I'm living on.

      Good grief, knowledge and education are not all about the efficiency of search algorithms. A luddite dystopian scifi novel called, they want their villain back.

    8. Re:Removes more than it adds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dickheads like you are the reason I can never find that specific book I need because dickheads like you always check out books you don't need.

      Good riddance.

      Dickhead.

    9. Re:Removes more than it adds by oursland · · Score: 1

      I recently graduated and I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree. I would often study at the library, but I also loved to browse around in sections that interested me. Without the ability to do so, I wouldn't have been exposed to topics related of my interests that would have been otherwise unknown to me.

      A few days ago there was the posting about how customized searches actually restrict people to information bubbles, rather than exposing them to new information. It seems that now even libraries, a place of literal tomes of knowledge, are now becoming places that confine persons to pillars of information instead of exposing them to a broad spectrum of ideas.

    10. Re:Removes more than it adds by EL_mal0 · · Score: 1

      Not better search, but paper offers a better browsing experience. As noted in a number of other posts, this browsing can lead to the discovery of titles you didn't know existed. This is very beneficial to academic work.

    11. Re:Removes more than it adds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing random about the books, they are organised and placed accordingly to classification.

      Perhaps you meant to say that you search arbitrarily.

    12. Re:Removes more than it adds by NoSig · · Score: 1

      I've seen two points brought up. One is that you can stumble upon other books in the same Dewey classification and/or with the same author because they will be nearby on the shelves. I have every confidence that a computer can display the books on your screen that would be around the book you are looking at in a physical library. However, a computer wouldn't do that because computers are better at finding related information than an ordering by author's last name is. The other point is that if a book isn't digitized, it's more trouble than it's worth to ask the robot to bring you a book with a mildly interesting title just to glance briefly at a random page. I'll grant the latter point, but I still prefer computers' ability to give you reviews and related titles and other information.

    13. Re:Removes more than it adds by NoSig · · Score: 1

      Is the library story really better with shelves everywhere, or is that nostalgia?

    14. Re:Removes more than it adds by EL_mal0 · · Score: 1

      You make a good point about computers (generally) being good at finding related material. However, right now many library search systems don't bring up related titles. And even if you do have a system that displays related items, until these are digitized and you have sufficiently advanced algorithms to dig up relevant content, "related content" will be based on keywords, etc. This short circuits the computer's advantages in finding related content. My university recently completed a robotic retrieval system much like the one described, so I come at this with some experience.

      I also think there's something to be said for browsing through the stacks looking for something that catches your eye, leading to unexpected discovery. I have yet to find a search platform that gives this kind of flexibility.

      As a minor correction, most universities, at least in the US, use the Library of Congress classification system which does a good job of grouping by rather specialized subjects. If it grouped largely by author's last name, it would be pretty useless to see what's farther on down the shelf.

    15. Re:Removes more than it adds by NoSig · · Score: 1

      I meant that they order by author's last name within the categories. I certainly agree that if the computer system isn't done well, then there is ample opportunity for the digital version to be far worse than a old-fashioned library. Just imagine how useful this library will be if the robotic retrieval system turns out to have frequent mechanical issues... I think a well-executed computerized library can be better than an old-fashioned library, but I grant that it's possible that the library in the story won't achieve that.

  9. Crappy time to be a librarian by CRCulver · · Score: 1

    Becoming a librarian has been a pretty crappy career path for some time, involving long education to the M.Sc level only to receive poverty-level wages in many places. Now with mechanical systems, there's ever fewer job opportunities. The workforce at my university library has been heavily reduced in recent years.

    1. Re:Crappy time to be a librarian by greatcelerystalk · · Score: 1

      It has been a crappy time to be a librarian for the last ten years, at least. The projected wave of retirement among librarians never happened, at least not in the U.S. However, there are a lot of other M.Sc-level fields in the States are paid about the same. As a Residence Life Coordinator I made about what a starting librarian makes, and maybe 10k a year (around 40K) more when I moved into institutional research. Should've become a biologist

    2. Re:Crappy time to be a librarian by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      my experience with them at university level is glorified terminal operator and generally useless otherwise, in a public library it becomes a different story as they perform invaluable services to their community

    3. Re:Crappy time to be a librarian by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · · Score: 1

      Well, there's fully accredited librarians and then the pages who do the actual grunt work of checking in/checking out/shelving/straightening/etc. I used to do page work and it was great fun. Didn't expect it to be rendered obsolete by machines so soon, although how many libraries out of the total are actually employing this kind of tech?

      Agree that it's great to just peruse the collection in person instead of selecting things from a monitor, too.

    4. Re:Crappy time to be a librarian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet another job evolving into an IT job: fewer positions, more skills. This would just take the place of the undergrad labor for re-stacking shelves: no more work-study :-( . You'll still need librarians, but they'll need skills such as troubleshooting the robots, troubleshooting the scanners, troubleshooting catalog cross-references, and keeping the infrastructure accessible 24x7.

      Actually, I'd like to see video of the nightly "defrag" process. Imagine all the robots going full blast re-shelving anything out of place!

  10. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tuition rates are out of control because, for some reason, everyone in the US suddenly needs to go to college. Its a marketing ploy, and its working like a charm.

  11. IT'S LIKE A FAX MACHINE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's soooo 1980s' there. Robots (FAX) getting books (hardcopy). Way to go Chicago U!

  12. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by sackvillian · · Score: 4, Informative

    The library cost a hefty $81 million, but the alternative was expanding the old library's capacity - and that was estimated at $67 million. So for $14 million, the university gets a brand new library with all the prestige and sex appeal of this new, high-tech approach with lower operating costs to boot. And anyway, the library's namesakes donated $25million, an amount that was probably increased by the prospect of the donator's getting to slap their name all over this exciting new building. What I'm saying is that this was a no-brainer for the university in terms of cost/benefit.

    Now, whether you want to trade a building full of beautiful old books which you can peruse at your own convenience, and staffed with generally knowledgeable bibliophiles, for a mechanized building with 5-minute delay times on book requests and far fewer human employees... that's not so straightforward I hope.

    --
    Hey mate, spare a sig?
  13. What happens when they are all replaced by e-books by spads · · Score: 1

    in about 3 years? Seems a bit ill-conceived.

    --
    Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
  14. can't browse? by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    One of the benefits of sorted shelves are that you might find something you weren't looking for, but is related to what you were looking for. If I don't know which book is the best book on a subject, I'll just pick one and find it on the shelf, and look at the books near it on the shelf for something that looks appropriate to my level. I don't see how this is possible with a robot system.

    1. Re:can't browse? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      How do you choose a book on e.g. Amazon? Do you need to know the exact name of the book?

      There are computers there. Just have a simple web interface that lets you browse books by genre, topic, similar to others, authors, etc.

    2. Re:can't browse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a "discovery" element to browsing which doesn't exist with search. There have been many times before when I searched for a book on a topic, only to discover other related books which I never would have discovered (or could even have accessed) through search approach.

  15. Seriosuly? by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

    There is no future in paper books.

    1. Re:Seriosuly? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. "Digitize" was the tag I added (well, not capitalized; some systems are not robust).

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    2. Re:Seriosuly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paper books aren't going anywhere for quite some time. Why? Because as long as the book is printed in a language you can read, anyone can use it. E-books, not necessarily true. Is it PDF? Is it Kindle format? A Sony EReader format? An Apple ebook? MobiPocket? Postscript? LaTeX? Microsoft Reader? DjVU? The list goes on and on.

      When the DRM and format wars are over and there is an industry agreed upon standardized format for ebooks, then yes the days will be numbered on printed books but even then they'll never completely disappear. Too many of us prefer the texture and weight and the feel of holding a physical book while reading it and print-on-demand services will make it even easier for us to get copies of hard to find books.

    3. Re:Seriosuly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except there are still readable papyrus from millenia ago, but tons of valuable information become irretrievable each year due to software and hardware obsolescence, as there are no funds to pay for the needed manpower, machines bought or rented and work-hours to continually translate that data from a dead format to successive ones. There's a fine article on that from Scientific American published some years ago (search for "data obsolescence). Fascinanting and creepy reading!

  16. How is this news? by Bugs42 · · Score: 2

    My alma mater (California State University, Northridge) has had one of these for over 15 years (http://library.csun.edu/About/ASRS). Sure it's cool, but why do we care? It's nothing new or groundbreaking.

    --
    Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
    1. Re:How is this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CSU Long Beach has had this for a few years also. And to the people complaining about the cost of a robotic system, its more expensive to build and maintain another library building. This saves money in the long run.

    2. Re:How is this news? by drLouie · · Score: 1

      University of Louisville added a robot retrieval system in 2005 and allowed them to consolidate two libraries into one. There can be savings in personnel as well as building costs (heat/air/electricity/etc).

  17. Temptation by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 1

    It is tempting to chalk this down to colossal stupidity and cluelessness, but that would be a mistake. Such a library can only have been designed by people who never go to libraries. However, as with most governmental or institutional actions that seem carried out by imbeciles, corruption is a far better explanation. Instead of allowing users to browse the stacks directly, examining book after book with related (or even serendipitously unrelated) information, you can now only get the exact book you asked for and will likely have to do it again and again with needless waiting and hit or miss results. This is something that should have been specifically prevented in the design, but then far less than $81 million would have changed hands. This backward and gratuitous use of completely inappropriate, overly elaborate and enormously expensive technology was done not for library users, but by the designers and builders to scam the customer.

    All that glitters is not gold.

    1. Re:Temptation by rrkelleycsprof · · Score: 1

      This type of storage system makes perfect sense while we are in transition from paper to e-books. Sure, you can buy new e-books on Amazon, but what about those esoteric, academic books. They are not yet priority for scanning projects, but they still might have value for research. If the day comes that all the paper books are purged from the library and replaced with e-book equivalents, this building can be used to store other stuff. Still, funny this is considered news, we have this at our university for 5 or 6 years.

      --
      Only one thing is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet. --Mark Twain
    2. Re:Temptation by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Then why do online book stores have so much success, if they suffer from the exact same problem?

    3. Re:Temptation by blair1q · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, you can "browse" the catalog of currently-checked-in items from your iPhone on the subway, order those you need, and pick them up within seconds of reaching the library.

      Or, you can spend hours going from shelf to shelf finding that things you need weren't re-shelved, if they were checked in, if they weren't subsequently stolen from the stacks.

    4. Re:Temptation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The functionality of libraries is changing - more and more they are becoming re-purposed as study places, reading rooms, and group meeting spaces rather than a place to find books. This is particularly true for undergraduate utilization. Rare and old books are generally not in circulation anyway, so the books with reduced access are those that will largely be moved toward digital access in the next 20-30 years (standard texts that are available at most research libraries).

    5. Re:Temptation by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're unfamiliar on how libraries are used these days.

      With the Internet, most research can be done online, with just occasional references to physical books. When that happens, it means you have to go wander the library and search through the shelves for the book. With the book found, you can head back to where you started (study/research group, computer, wherever) and continue.

      This system cuts down the wandering in the library, the searching the shelves for the book, and possibly losing your spot while you're gone. Find a reference to a book? A few clicks and it'll be across the room in a few minutes. Plus there's the added benefit of more workspace, less wasted on shelves of books.

    6. Re:Temptation by rnturn · · Score: 1

      Marketing.

      It's also why so many people buy and eat food that is bad for them. Why so many think they have to spend upwards of $70 for television or a similar amount for phone service. It's new! It's cool! You must have it! Now! Don't be the last one on your block to get it!

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    7. Re:Temptation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such a library can only have been designed by people who never go to libraries.

      How true. That's the problem with so much of today's technological solutions--you end up with something flashy that's not very usable.

  18. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Un+pobre+guey · · Score: 0

    Hint: Student loans are 1) guaranteed by the government, and 2) securitized. Sound familiar?

  19. Old news! by SixitesChild · · Score: 1

    This sort of automated book retrieval system has been commonplace for years. The University of British Columbia installed such a system perhaps a decade ago ... and it works beautifully.

  20. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    yea I go to the library to wander around and get lost a while, but when I was in college that was the last thing I wanted cause I needed material NOW!!!

    so I guess it depends on the function of the library, since yea this was a good deal and yea there was a hefty donation I will not go into how Illinois is broke, has a sky high poverty level, and if you find a town tween hours of cornfeilds its 3 farmers doing a circle jerk, and admit it was a good buy for a university

    as a public place of knowledge and literature its a total failure, as discovery is half the fun when you are not forced to do a scavenger hunt on a deadline

  21. I am completely unimpressed... by tlambert · · Score: 0

    I am completely unimpressed with any library where I can not browse books.

    Having books suggested to me by some algorithm that's been training itself to show me things similar to things I've seen before is not at all the same.

    Neither is giving me random crap because I've expressed a distaste for homogenized crap; as I told the designers of the iPod Shuffle the first three times I suggested that they had a perfectly usable UI feedback mechanism for representing menus in the devices audio output: Random Is Not A Feature.

    This goes for browsing them by either topically due to horizontal shelf locality, or because of other physical adjacency (above/below/opposite self), or because of route locality (I went down the wrong row/headed to the right row through another, otherwise unrelated, section).

    FWIW: I also hate electronic books.

    -- Terry

  22. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Admittedly, it's not like I have the time (nor really care) to do a cost benefit analysis for the project. The entire thing just seems a bit bloated. University of Chicago is a private institution and they can spend their money however they wish. There will be a point though where the parents/students of the school will look at that library and consider that their money isn't going to a quality education, but pure waste. That "extra" $14 million ould definitely save the parent/student more than a few pennies off tuition over 25 years.

  23. cry me a river by arcite · · Score: 0

    Chimney sweeps and horse shoe men have it even worse!

    1. Re:cry me a river by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      I knew someone was going to post this.

      Look, even if you see this as a sign of technology, you can still commiserate a bit with people who have dedicated years to study only to find job opportunities are no longer there. You can also ponder if technological progress has meant there are less and less job opportunities. People have ever fewer jobs to retrain for. At some point robots might be doing the bulk of the work, and what's left is outsourced.

  24. Interesting Concept by Ancantus · · Score: 1

    I like the overall idea, however according to the video, it seems like you still require librarians to sort through a bin of 100 books for the book you requested. I know that this is probably the first automated library of this scale, but if your going to spend the 81 million, you might as well make it totally automated without human interaction.

    On a positive note, the library really does look like a library from the future. I would love to go there and read books on my eReader.

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Isaac Asimov
    1. Re:Interesting Concept by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      Well, probably handling a single book would add several degrees of complexity:

      • Book strength is determinated by the strength of paper while the container can be made of a sturdier materiel (and are easier to replace).
      • In order to select a single book, you cannot have them side-by-side as usual in libraries because it would be complicated to identify the item and it would be a lot more complicate to put it back in place (books at the side falling and all that stuff that is so easily handled by humans.
      • So, you need individual container for the books. Since books come in lots of sizes and shapes, if you have few container sizes you'll waste lots of space unused inside each container; if you have lots of container formats you'll increase complexity.

      Not that it would not be better the way you say, but I think it would probably be too complicated. After all, the big time saver would be in the time going up and down the aisle (or even to another building).

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
  25. Why? by TheChromaticOrb · · Score: 1

    We're a few years away from having e-paper that feels like a book and can hold as many as you need for a couple of weeks. Why does this library need to store more physical copies of printed books? When all is set and done they'll be left with maintaining a useless robot...

    --
    Note to self: get a sig.
    1. Re:Why? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Because ebooks often come with horrible DRM and/or onerous restrictions on resale and lending. Any library that considers itself to be a serious store of knowledge (as opposed to merely a resource for current patrons) will want to avoid that and right now for most titles the only way to avoid it is to stock paper copies.

      Maybe a compromise could be to allow the library to keep DRM free copies internally but require them to use DRM when lending them out. Having a library lend out DRM free digital copies is pretty clearly a non-starter because many readers would keep their copy when they checked the book back in.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    2. Re:Why? by JambisJubilee · · Score: 1

      That day is today, and the device is a Kindle. Can hold literally years worth of books. Battery lasts a month. The library should have the stacks for sure, but you should also be able to click a button and have the digital version sent to you.

    3. Re:Why? by TheChromaticOrb · · Score: 1

      Kindle and other e-readers on the market today do not feel like a book. It does provide similar and enhanced functionality but it's just not the same experience.

      --
      Note to self: get a sig.
  26. I went to this library by Veramocor · · Score: 1

    I went to the Arcada section of the library and there was a guy laying shot and bleeding on the ground. I went to help him and he said "Astral body".

    Anyway I had the computer retrieve the "astral body" cartridge. Stupid library didn't have anywhere to play the thing though.

    --
    Veramocor
  27. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by toppavak · · Score: 5, Informative

    Indeed the long run the robotic library will be cheaper. My alma mater started construction on one just before I graduated and I heard a librarian talking about the new design. Robotic libraries allow a higher packing density (more books per cubic meter), save on climate control (no need to compensate for opening / closing doors, it's underground so well insulated, no windows), require far fewer lights (robots can work in the dark), reduce the number of employees needed to staff the place (a + or - depending on your point of view) among many other long-term cost-savings.

  28. Choo Choo Ch'Boogie by JackSpratts · · Score: 1

    You reach your destination, but alas & alack

    You need some compensation to get back in the black

    You take the morning paper from the top of the stack

    And read the situation from the front to the back

    The only job that's open needs a man with a knack

    So put it right back in the rack, Jack

    Amen. Nothing beats perusing physical media.

    1. Re:Choo Choo Ch'Boogie by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Nothing beats perusing physical media.

      As someone who's spent a lifetime in books, much of it spent in the University of Chicago's Regenstein as a matter of fact, I used to be a firm believer in the supremacy of physical books.

      My mother-in-law sent me a very nice eBook reader, and little by little I've really come to appreciate it. I can even take eBooks out of the public library.

      It's no good for musical scores, and I can't read it in bed with the lights low so I don't disturb my wife (eInk is not backlit), but I was shocked at how quickly the whole electronic reader thing became invisible to me and all I saw in front of me was the book. I've actually reached up to turn a page more than once before realizing all I had to do was thumb a little button.

      At less than $100 (I have a nook and my daughter has a Kobo which she bought for $69 at a Borders that was closing.

      I am extremely uncomfortable with the notion that eBooks will put my local bookseller out of business though. His recommendations are valued by me and he has never failed to get me those hard-to-find items I occasionally want. But I get the feeling the big chains are more of a danger to his business than eBooks. Many people will still prefer handling real books. I won't miss Borders and Barnes and Noble and other huge chains though.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  29. The library of the future . . . by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

    The library of the future is . . . the library of the past. Isn't this just the "closed stacks" system? Except with robots? And no hanky-panky in dimly-lit floor 2.5 East?

    --
    I am not a crackpot.
    1. Re:The library of the future . . . by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Haha, yes, I had sex in a library more than the statute of limitations ago.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  30. Sounds neat, but... by DSS11Q13 · · Score: 1

    I'm am both a graduate student and circulation librarian at Harvard, the biggest library system on the planet. While I can see the benefit of not having to run around such a massive library, especially the torturous process of reshelving returns, one of the benefits of libraries this huge would disappear. One of the great things about humongous libraries is that when you go to get your book, you can look at the other stuff on the same shelf. You'll often find a bunch of other relevant stuff, perhaps even more relevant than the book you came to get. It sounds like this robotic system would totally eliminate this.

    1. Re:Sounds neat, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the next generation version should be modified to return a bin analogous to a shelf/set of shelves. That way you get most of the best of both - near immediate access while being able to browse related books.

    2. Re:Sounds neat, but... by JambisJubilee · · Score: 1

      That's awesome. You're 100% correct. I don't know how books are sorted these days, but the relevancy of nearby books is why I attend libraries.

      At my (European) university we have a system where, instead of one big library, we have many small, specialized libraries. This seems to work fairly well if the librarians are good... they keep the shelves updated and know what should go near what.

  31. 1984 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a great way to track what you read, for finding subersives and for the university to sell to marketing companies who can zero in on what you read to help market crap to you that you don't want, but might be susceptible to purchase with well trained psychological profile based marketers. That database they're gonna amass is going to be hella valuable.

  32. Really? by digitig · · Score: 1

    What are my books doing at U. Chicago's library?

    --
    Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  33. Astounding by epine · · Score: 1

    I bet you won't find it predicted in Astounding back in the 1940s that we'd have robotic fetchers by the year 2010.

    Somebody in Chicago invented time travel back in 1940, zipped 70 years forward to see how humans and AI were getting along, saw the library, returned to the time of origin, then destroyed the machine, since the future was too sad to contemplate.

  34. the library of the future by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Will also offer *free* electronic copies of ALL their books, to go along with the paper ones.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:the library of the future by blair1q · · Score: 2

      Will be installed in your head at birth, and updated either on a schedule or manually, as you desire.

      Unless all available storage and bandwidth are taken up with virus definitions, that is.

  35. Here's a video of the system in action by ziani · · Score: 1

    At the University of British Columbia, Canada.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gruenelf113/3657589909/

  36. $81 Million uncredited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think Joe and Rika Mansueto are going to be upset when they rename it to University of Chicago's Rube Goldberg Library.

  37. Browsing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This may be a good system if the desired book is known beforehand, but how does a person know what book he wants?

    Usually, the tactic employed is called browsing. A person enters a library and proceeds to leaf through many volumes of a given subject until a suitable title (or titles) is found. Needless to say, this system would obviate the whole idea of browsing and make the whole library experience rather pointless.

    The ability to freely browsing applies to virtually all shopping ventures and it applies to scholarship as well. Eliminating this ability for the sake of technical expediency is a ridiculous move.

  38. Crappy time to be a commentator. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the responses you're getting are because most people only think of librarians as glorified book shelvers. Those who know better aren't the one's cruising slashdot. Those who know an E-reader isn't a substitute for a librarian also aren't cruising slashdot. That leaves the anti-establishment, if I keep calling everything "buggy whip" people will think I'm cool.

  39. In 1950's Amerika... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    Books bring robots to YOU!

  40. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can get higher packing density by having sliding shelves like we do at Emory (4-6 shelves effectively have a single aisle at a time and the shelves slide to provide access to the desired aisle). That said, one of the greatest advantages of the UChicago system is avoiding improperly shelved books - if a book is used and put back in the wrong place, it is nearly impossible to find in a library of millions of volumes whereas with robotic retrieval system will avoid this. The downside however is that you don't see related books anymore like you would when searching in the stacks yourself. Searching for a Graph Theory or Civil War book might take you past a book that fits your needs even better than the one you were initially looking for.

  41. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Thing+1 · · Score: 0

    Quick! Everyone get a student loan, and we'll avoid the S&L bailout of the 80s!

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  42. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Princeofcups · · Score: 2

    It is very cool, but come on! People are struggling to afford college for their kids, and universities waste money like this?! Sorry, we have to raise tuition another 5%, we have to pay off this robotic library. And people complain about the oil companies...

    You have got to be kidding. This is exactly what Universities should be doing. Finding ways to preserve knowledge and make it available to whomever wants it. Until everything is digitized, this is a perfect way to make those books available in an as efficient a way possible. The students at the U of C are not about getting good grades and passing courses to get good jobs. They are about discovering and creating and investigating things that no one else has thought of yet. It's a research institution, not a tech school. And I wish we had more like it.

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  43. Main branch of the New York Public Library by StandardDeviant · · Score: 1

    The main branch of the NYPL uses the same system, albeit more floors that aren't as tall, and human workers handle pick and place.

    An original illustration here, sorry for the ugly url: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PotguXM3PJk/TKh0YeRyQMI/AAAAAAAAF_c/WiOrMXEWdQc/s1600/nyplstacks.jpeg

  44. How about spending $81m scanning books ... by guanxi · · Score: 1

    ... so I can retrieve them, as well as search, copy (!), and do everything else I can do with data on a computer, from anywhere.

    1. Re:How about spending $81m scanning books ... by vtrhps · · Score: 1

      Copyright?

  45. Not unique by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is hardly unique. Macquarie University's (Sydney, Australia) new library uses this system also. For a more complete list:

    http://www.automatedlibrarysystems.com/our-successes.cfm

  46. The end of browsing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty much the only reason I'll go to a library for research rather than the web or journals is to browse: find where the books on subject x are, flip through a few or a few dozen, scan indexes and sample writing style until I find a good book on whatever I'm looking for. So, cool as this system undoubtedly is, it pretty much negates the benefits of libraries for me.

  47. alot of books are cataloged by a hive mind by decora · · Score: 1

    nowdays you can predownload cataloging data partially filled out

  48. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by toppavak · · Score: 1

    True, although you could always design a nice "virtual bookshelf" type of interface for browsing titles in software. In fact, most library catalog search engines will show "other titles on the same shelf" by default. For example see this entry for Dune and click on "Browse shelf" to the right of the page.

  49. Death of the service industry? by grapeape · · Score: 2

    When manufacturing jobs started disappearing the comments from many were that everything was ok and that service related jobs would take their place, now the service related jobs seem to be going away too (McDonalds last week announced it was replacing cashiers with touch screen kiosks in 40,000 restaurants). What happens now? While I like progress and advancement in technology, it just doesn't seem to be very well thought out, if you eliminate jobs in the name of efficiency eventually you also end up eliminating a sizable portion of the customer base. You can have 100% efficiency but if there is no one left who can afford to buy what your selling your business is going to fail.

    1. Re:Death of the service industry? by nawitus · · Score: 1

      Unemployed people can buy stuff with unemployment benefits - and when the "everybody has to work" -idea is history citizens can buy stuff using basic income guarantee. If work can be automated, it should. The only remaining problem is distribution of goods. And no, this is not "communism", as corporations are still privately owned.

    2. Re:Death of the service industry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When manufacturing jobs started disappearing the comments from many were that everything was ok and that service related jobs would take their place, now the service related jobs seem to be going away too (McDonalds last week announced it was replacing cashiers with touch screen kiosks in 40,000 restaurants). What happens now? While I like progress and advancement in technology, it just doesn't seem to be very well thought out, if you eliminate jobs in the name of efficiency eventually you also end up eliminating a sizable portion of the customer base. You can have 100% efficiency but if there is no one left who can afford to buy what your selling your business is going to fail.

      This is why you recycle the new found profits back to the people in terms of generic welfare, infrastructure, education, etc.

      It creates a thriving, quickly adaptable society which emphasizes on technology and research -- everyone has a possibility to prosper, even those not born of blue blood.

      The only time technological prowess goes awry when you let a private individual owning the machinery to prosper tremendously at the expense of the rest.

      A modern society implementing this would be called 'social democracy', which, incidentally, is the praised model used in northern Europe. While the coming of EU, EMU and overly capitalistic influence of the west has effectively dismantled the once sound foundation today, it still doesn't mean it wasn't a better, if not optimal system.

      The current capitalistic model will end up in global famine if left unchecked.

  50. having worked with voyager by decora · · Score: 1

    it's been so long i've forgotten most of it. but essentially there are a tangle of tables for various parts of a book record, and a bunch of proprietary indexing garbage. hell i even wrote a layer of python to talk to it... it interfaced with a layer of java that itnerfaced to an ODBC driver... anyways. they were using Oracle and Unix as a backend, but i didnt get to play with that part.

    the other staff used to tell me that before they bought it, they went through this survey process; all the librarians and staff liked other systems better, but the main dude decided to buy voyager anyways.

    oh there is also an article about voyager in 2600, how it keeps records of every database search, by IP address, and it also keeps records of who checked out what, even long after the records should have been purged. Oh, and did you know that thanks to the PAtriot Act, librarians can get national security letters from the FBI to handover records, and then they cannot talk about having gotten them? (conflict of interest.. i uhmm wrote the rant)

  51. May just save mankind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... from the Vashta Nerada. Keeping the books securely locked away where those carnivorous fiends cannot escape is probably step 3 in someone's plan...

  52. aristotle and causation by decora · · Score: 1

    this might be a cause of why tuition is out of control.

    however, you might wonder, why an organization that supposedly has limited budgets is spending money on these projects.

    who benefits?

    and who benefits when tuition goes up?

    i humbly suggest learning about the mortgage market 2000-2008, then realizing the same thing is happening in education; hedge funds are creating a bubble so they can get rich. fuck the students, fuck the social contract. they bubble the student loan market; they securitize the loans, they sell them off to investors. even better; mortgage debt is forgiven in bankruptcy; student loans are not.

    if the money comes from the government; the university has no incentive to cut costs... they just tell the students the price will go up. the students get bigger loans from the government, they are too young to understand what it means. the hedgies get rich slicing, dicing and reselling this debt.

    and by hedgies, i include the trading desks at 'banks' like Goldman Sachs.

  53. preach it brother by decora · · Score: 0

    the only people benefiting from tuition hikes are corrupt contractors and banks/hedge funds.

  54. and dozens of people have no jobs as clerks by decora · · Score: 0

    oh well, at least they can still work at best buy or mcdonalds.

    oh wait, mcdonalds is automating checkouts too.

    well, at least they can still work at the mall selling dippin dots.

    it's the ice cream of the future.

    1. Re:and dozens of people have no jobs as clerks by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      See: broken window fallacy. All those people who we no longer need as clerks can go find something more valuable to do.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  55. Oh but there's a HUGE shortage! by decora · · Score: 1

    Didn't you hear about the shortage? it's been going on for, I don't know, about 15 years now. A huge, massive retirement wave is hitting the librarian industry! You should definitely sign up for an MLS degree, ASAP! There, you can learn psychoanalytic theories about the hermeneutics of student based factors derived classroom application methods, from somebody who has never heard of Linux. Congratulations, you are well on your way to a noble profession, where you will work in a stultifying bureaucracy where any semblance of creativity or independent thought is treated like cancer and irradiated.

  56. Why does everyone need to go to college? by jeko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because Sarah Palin, that's why. Because Glenn Beck. Because Creationist Museums where people ride their pet dinosaurs. Because a large chunk of the US actually got excited about the world ending last Saturday. Because .02 cents is not .02 dollars. Because we're fighting two majors wars and a skirmish in three countries most US citizens can't find on a map.

    Because everyone gets to vote. Everyone needs to go to college?! If I had my way, college would be free and citizenship would require degrees in history, economics and science. Why on Earth wouldn't we want the electorate in charge of the largest supply of nuclear weapons on the planet to be as well educated as possible?

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  57. california also went bankrupt by decora · · Score: 1

    are you trying to tell us that the rest of the country is going to follow suit?

  58. libraries are becoming thought control centers by decora · · Score: 2

    Old days:

    Step 1: slip into the library bored on a friday night
    Step 2: go find books on nuclear weapons, magic mushrooms, bizarre sex acts, medical anomalies, etc. read to your hearts content.

    New days:

    Step 1. login with your government provided username and password
    Step 2. click on the warning notice that says all your activity is monitored and unauthorized activity will be punished
    Step 3. search for stuff.
    Step 4. try to tell yourself that everything you search for is not being stored in some database somewhere. even though it is.
    Step 5. try to tell yourself that the government needs a warrant to pull your records. even though it doesn't.
    Step 6. try to tell yourself that the library administrators and university bosses didn't get any kickbacks from the IT vendor, and that the process was fair, efficient, and put the needs of the students first. even though it didn't.
    Step 7. search for a book on how the US has become an emasculated, impotent group of yes men and intellectual cowards

    1. Re:libraries are becoming thought control centers by rnturn · · Score: 1

      Oh how I wish I could use my mod points for this post.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    2. Re:libraries are becoming thought control centers by Indigo · · Score: 1

      Preach brother, preach! +1.

  59. exactly. they just removed anonymity from library by decora · · Score: 1

    people say 'oh they wont track what you get'. uhm yes they will. they do already.

    when Alex Jones starts actually making logical sense, you know this country is in trouble.

  60. Spain is what happens now. by decora · · Score: 1

    Spain has something like 40 percent youth unemployment. They just had a bunch of massive protests.

  61. get off my lawn by decora · · Score: 1

    and take that new fangled alien contraption with ye, ye devil.

  62. Hurray by SuseLover · · Score: 0

    Another useless feature to add more cost to already un-affordable tuition fees. Is Obama behind this so that tuition can "necessarily skyrocket"?

  63. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    Robotic libraries allow a higher packing density (more books per cubic meter), save on climate control (no need to compensate for opening / closing doors, it's underground so well insulated, no windows), require far fewer lights (robots can work in the dark), reduce the number of employees needed to staff the place (a + or - depending on your point of view) among many other long-term cost-savings.

    That's awfully convenient... for pretty much everyone but the students who need to browse through the stacks to do their research.

    The ability to browse is the reason I still go to bookstores and libraries, even though almost every book you'd ever want is available online.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  64. Too little too late? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scanning all the books would have been much easier, cheaper and convenient.

    Using a robotic warehouse is so last century.

  65. How many watts.... by idji · · Score: 1

    does it cost to retrieve and return one book?

    1. Re:How many watts.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Less, over 30 years, than the cost of heating, cooling, and ventilating a much bigger place for humans to retrieve the book.

  66. Next step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I assume the catalogue is already electronic. Now how about putting it on the Web and getting Mr Delivery (or whatever the local version is) to deliver those books to your doorstep? (And collect them afterward...)

    Then again, why not deliver an electronic copy of the book over the Web? Oh wait....

  67. Okay, you cunts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...let's see what you can do now.

  68. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by rally2xs · · Score: 1

    Everyone in the US _does_ need to go to college, only some can't afford it, and some aren't smart enough to be able to take advantage of it.

    The cure is to bring back manufacturing jobs. A crackerjack welder can make really good money without going to college, as can a good tool and die maker, machinist, electrician, pipefitter, millwright, etc.

    But our factories, which create these jobs, are overseas. Why? No, its not high labor rates or unions. It is the 35% Federal income taxes for businesses. Zeroize these taxes, and US manufacturing will take off, make / keep the US as the #1 manufacturer of the planet, and make the US population prosperous again.

    How to do this? Pass the Fair Tax. Its that simple. The Fair Tax will create 10 million new jobs in the 1st 2 years, resulting in a 3% unemployment rate. There's no need for this decades-long recession, which is what it's going to be with the current recovery rate of approx 3% GDP growth. One needs a 7% - 8% GDP growth to get out of a recession, but the 3% figure is just status quo.

  69. Browsing by dugeen · · Score: 1

    It's no substitute for the real thing. If you can't browse along the shelves you might as well not visit a library at all.

  70. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by RivenAleem · · Score: 2

    That's awfully convenient... for pretty much everyone but the students who need to browse through the stacks to do their research.

    The ability to browse is the reason I still go to bookstores and libraries, even though almost every book you'd ever want is available online.

    If you're browsing through stacks still, in this day and age, you're doing it wrong. In a world of databases and search functions, it's much more efficient to browse electronically, and request all the books you think are worth investigating. A well written search function, including related books (users who requested this book also requested X) would be much more useful than each individual having to manually perform the same search that 5,10,100 other people might have done.

  71. Old Technology with a new Twist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is old Technology with new features. The Rand-Triever was installed in libraries across the country in the early 70's. Due to maintenance costs most if not all systems have been pulled.

    http://www.monroe.lib.in.us/administration/photos/Randt.html

  72. Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Bloomington Indiana public library has had robot store and retrieve since around 1990. Yawn.

  73. Yeah, a good argument! by Cyberax · · Score: 1

    Yeah, a good argument!

    My parents' personal library weights about 2 tons. There's no way it could be evacuated in time to save it from, say, asteroid strike (they live in a remarkably geologically stable zone).

    However, my own library fits a USB thumb drive which I can easily carry with me everywhere. And with the help of my solar charger I can charge my eBook reader (once or twice a week should be enough).

  74. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really hope they have a place like this in the next edition of DeadSpace. Totally dark room, with limited access, and robots screaming back and forth to fetch the requests of people floors above?

    Tell me THAT doesn't strike you as survival horror at its finest?

  75. No, NO, please don't let this happen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the great things about being a UC undergraduate was taking a break from studying and wandering around Regenstein library, stopping and reading on a whim. "Hmm, that looks interesting". Now that sort of serendipity is gone forever.

  76. Maybe good for some things, definitely not for all by dotfile · · Score: 1

    Sure, if you know what book you're looking for it's great. But if you're looking for something for which you may need to sort through a shelf or two of books, it seems like this would make it tougher to just pull a book down, browse through it, and move on to the next. I also remember many hours spent leafing through various works of fiction, looking for something I might enjoy reading by reading a few pages here and there to get a general idea of the author's style and the book's plot.

    Of course it's academic (so to speak), as I haven't been inside a library in years now.

  77. All new? by domatavus · · Score: 1

    I watched the video and I must say, it doesn't really sound that innovative.
    They can't even retrieve each single book automatically, but must get 99 others with? That's a lot of wasted work there.
    Also: barcodes? Which century do they live in? Even at our 'conventional' library they have tagged books with RFID so that you can borrow it yourself at a terminal and give it back as easily.
    And they do it so they can store the books in 1/7th the space. I didn't think space was such a big problem for the US...
    So in my opinion the price tag is a little too high for such a small gain.

    1. Re:All new? by Mattwan · · Score: 1

      Actual librarian checking in here.

      1. I suspect the need to bring along an extra 99 books is a compromise between the inefficiency of 100-book chunks and the cost of purchasing and registering an individual box for every book in the library.

      2. Changing from barcodes to RFID is one of those funny situations where smaller libraries with less overall funding are actually at an advantage. Remember that you can't just switch systems midstream and continue from there; you also have to retrofit each of the hundreds of thousands or even millions of items already in the system. That runs into big money fast, less for the RFID chips than for the additional labor costs.

      3. Space is a huge problem for academic libraries. After a couple of decades you hit capacity, but your collection keeps growing forever. You're established on a campus where space is always at a premium, and you probably don't have the political clout to win a new lot when the engineering and business schools are also competing for it; even if you could claim the space, good luck in raising several million dollars for a new facility. Remove old, unused stuff to make room for the new stuff? We do some of that, but a shift big enough for people to notice will raise a shitstorm you can hardly imagine. When you factor in the fact that library's now see their mission as being as much about providing "space" as providing information, the problem grows even more rapidly.

      I agree with you that the pricetag seems high for the benefit offered, but I haven't seen their actual financials so am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. (I still personally hate robotic systems, for the record. Browsing is good, and just not replicable online.)

  78. Re: slowing down to a crawl by rnturn · · Score: 1

    I don't think your scenario of a bunch of requests aimed at a particular area of the stacks is even necessary to cause bottlenecks and delays in patrons getting materials from the stacks. There will never be enough robotic book pullers to match the amount of material that can be obtained by individuals walking through the stacks.

    I am guessing the UofC has closed stacks otherwise this robotic system wouldn't make sense. Closed stacks, IMHO, suck like a tornado. They eliminate the serendipidous finds that you would only discover when you're looking at a bunch of texts sitting on the shelves. I spent a year at a university that had closed stacks. Doing research for a class assignment sucked when you had to submit a request for a library assistant to fetch the book for you. And you were limited to a small number of books to fetch for each request; If what you wanted from the stacks wasn't there you were out of luck.; the library assistants didn't -- and, not being knowledgable in your field, wouldn't have been able to -- select a reasonable alternate for any of the books that were checked out. When you discovered that the books you requested weren't what you needed you returned to square one. The whole experience reminded me of the early days of computing when one submitted punch cards to the data processing priests who would execute your program for you and, if you were lucky, you'd get 2-3 chances per day to get your code debugged and running.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  79. one word: bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Government guaranteed loans. Lots of graduates can't find work. Definitely and education bubble. (Though this is a sub-bubble to the Government bubble you guys are inflating.)

  80. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by rnturn · · Score: 1

    Most U.S. corporations that are big enough to hire decent accounting firms and lawyers are already paying far less than 35% in taxes. By some accounts, the average U.S. corporation is paying taxes in the area of 7%. I sure as hell wouldn't mind being taxed at that rate.

    Taxes have been lowered on the so-called job creators for ten years now. Where are all the jobs that those lowered taxes were supposed to have created? Any why were there more jobs when taxes were much higher? (Fifty years or so ago, the top tax rate was around 90% and you'd have to work really hard to say that American manufacturing was suffering under those tax rates.) To bring manufacturing jobs back into the U.S., something has to be done to make it economically undesirable to move them overseas. High oil prices do that to some degree but tariffs would do a much better job of that.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  81. Will Be Used To Track What You Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You won't be able to use the system without first providing identification. Every item you search for, every book you browse, every book you check out will be tracked and stored forever in a database. Your library history will be regularly sent to the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc..

    And what about the latency time involved? Today i can select a book off the shelf at random and browse immediately. If I must wait for the book to be brought to me (even by a machine), what once took seconds now takes minutes.

    Something like Google Books is better than a robotic library -its far less expensive and faster. But there's no replacement for a standard, anonymous walk-in library.

  82. Old by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't anything new. That big library in France shaped-sorta-like-a-book-with-trees-in-cages does the same thing. (Yes I know its odd to describe a place by its architecture but I did a small case study on it and I haven't had my coffee yet).

  83. What of the Elephant's Child? by slashdotard · · Score: 1

    And now what will become of the Elephant's Child? Keeping non-robotic entities out of the stacks will serve only to starve it to death.

    Exploring the depths of the library stacks is one of the last and more refined civilised expressions of human hunter-gatherer instincts, where one can find even that which she didn't know she was looking for.

    Serendipity is at the foundation of discovery and new knowledge. We become less than what we are when it is denied us.

    --
    me. --a by-product of public education
  84. Except... by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    Except, when I'm in a library searching for a book, I often run across something sitting on the shelf, that I was not searching for, that is equally or more interesting. The filter bubble comes to the library. God forbid anyone should expand their horizons by reading something they were not originally looking for.

    As for robotic personal shoppers, the same thing happens when I'm in a store. I often run across something I like, or something I forgot I needed while looking for something on my list.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
  85. What a shame! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a shame! 98% of the fun of going to a library is to browse through the stacks, smelling the knowledge as you go! Who knows what you will find as you wander, lost, through those venerable piles of books? Sigh...

  86. Oh so very Ghost in the Shell by Ninja+Penguin · · Score: 1

    I seem to recall robot librarians in an episode of SAC.

  87. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Chibi · · Score: 1

    The students at the U of C are not about getting good grades and passing courses to get good jobs. They are about discovering and creating and investigating things that no one else has thought of yet. It's a research institution, not a tech school. And I wish we had more like it.

    As a graduate of the University of Chicago, I'd have to say that, like many things, the perception is very different from reality. I'd say the vast majority of the student body, like at every school, are pretty average. It's not an environment that stirs intellectual discussion. If anything, it's a rather depressing environment where the vast majority of the people *are* obsessed with getting good grades, so they can get a good job or go to a good grad school. Which should be perfectly fine, but I think a lot of students there take it a little too far and feel they need every competitive advantage against people in their classes. It just makes for a very cutthroat environment, where people don't necessarily believe in collaboration or working together.

    The amazing research the university is known for is really more the realm of the faculty, who are more focused on their own research and generally look at teaching as a necessary evil they have to deal with in order to continue their research. You're not going to be exposed to these amazing concepts and ideas. You're going to learn what's in the textbook.

    I *do* think that some of the liberals arts courses the university offers can be very interesting and probably attracts a slightly different type of student, but outside of that realm, it'll be pretty dry (sciences, math, economics, pre-med, pre-law folks).

    --
    If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
  88. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    By some accounts, the average U.S. corporation is paying taxes in the area of 7%.

    IIRC, GE got a credit this year!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  89. CSUN did this and starfleet academy by iamutman · · Score: 1

    Not only was the library at my university (California state university Northridge) the first to implement this, but my library also housed starfleet academy. Beat THAT http://library.csun.edu/About/ASRS http://library.csun.edu/About/InMedia

  90. Too much technology is bad. by gottabeme · · Score: 1

    Masses of people living on basic income guarantee is a recipe for disaster. What do you expect people to do with their lives if they have no work to do? Watch TV? Surf the Web? Why do you think there are so many more obese people in first-world countries now? We're only beginning to see the consequences.

    People were made to be active, to work. People need to earn their living--it's good for them. Without that, people will feel like their lives are meaningless--worse than many already do.

    And no, there won't be an explosion of artistic, cultural creativity just because millions of people are "freed" from work. Those people on basic income guarantee aren't the ones who would be creative geniuses, they're the ones who'd be working in factories and flipping burgers. Besides, there's already an overload of "art" and entertainment available--more than anyone can consume.

    There is such a thing as too much technology, and we are crossing into that territory now in some fields. It's not good for society as a whole, and it's not good for individual people either.

    --
    "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
  91. appreciate your comment by decora · · Score: 1

    thanks dude.

  92. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    Most jobs are provided by small or family businesses.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  93. Re:And this is why tuition rates are out of contro by gsiarny · · Score: 1

    Now, whether you want to trade a building full of beautiful old books which you can peruse at your own convenience, and staffed with generally knowledgeable bibliophiles, for a mechanized building with 5-minute delay times on book requests and far fewer human employees... that's not so straightforward I hope.

    The new building is right next door to the old building, and will be used to store rarely accessed books. The old building is still in use, and holds several million volumes.

  94. Plenty of browsing just next door by gsiarny · · Score: 1

    The new glass-and-robots Mansueto Library, with its capacity for 3.5 million books, is right next to the older Regenstein Library, which still has roughly 4 million books in open stacks. Within a five minute walk of these two libraries is the Crerar Science Library with some 1.3 million books in open stacks. The two older "open-stacks" libraries, built in the 70s and 80s, aren't going away anytime soon. The majority of the University of Chicago's collection will therefore continue to be easily browsable by students and faculty alike for decades to come.

    The new library will house rarely consulted books and the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of serial volumes in the University's collection - journals and pamphlets which have already been digitized and need only rarely be consulted directly. The Mansueto is therefore more like a stylish reading room on top of a warehouse of rarely-consulted books - remote storage with five-minute retrieval times. http://news.lib.uchicago.edu/blog/2011/05/16/mansueto-library-celebrates-books-in-digital-era/

  95. What about privacy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One thing that instantly comes to mind is that once you have a system where you have to let a computer know what book you wish to browse, it's relatively trivial to require authentication, and thus create a database of what books people simply browse, or are curious about. As always, these kinds of pieces of random seemingly innocent trivia about a person can be ill used by the government, media, and others. (No puns about the data being protected please, I think we're beyond that).

    So you browsed Mein Kampf? Does that make you a political science student, a psychopath, or someone who just wanted to get a glimpse about how fucked up the guy really was? Or maybe you just wanted to see how to take over a country by breaking no laws...

    Also, what I like about traditional libraries (At least in Finland) is that the librarians showcase their own choices without an agenda to sell sell sell, and that there's actual librarians to talk to, if I wanted to..

  96. The're killing themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The service industry has failed. Just two days ago I went to a fast food restaurant and ordered a cheese burger. Never ordering from them before, I asked what it initially has on it and they said nothing. So I listed what I wanted and I got all those things plus ketchup. I completely hate ketchup; it wasn't supposed to have ketchup. The guy knew English, we weren't having trouble understanding each other. Roughly 40% of my fast food orders come out wrong. That is truly poor service.

    I've used kiosks to order food before. They show you all the options you can choose (at least it seems that way) and tell you exactly what you're going to get.

    Though I agree the loss of jobs is a concern. As a high school student, I worked as a cashier to support my tropical fish tank. Without the job, I wouldn't have had the fish and all the experience/management skills of keeping them alive that comes with it. I also learned about budgeting my income, something that vastly pays off. I don't have a solution to the job issue.