Slashdot Mirror
Spain To Clamp Down On File Sharers
pbahra writes "A bill that would allow Spain's authorities to close down illegal websites with limited judicial oversight has caused anger among the country's Internet users. The law, known as Sinde's bill (after the current culture minister Ángeles González-Sinde) is designed to close the loophole that sharing sites such as Roja Directa have exploited. If you go to the website today, you will find a pithy warning against Internet piracy, courtesy of the US authorities. The US has exerted considerable pressure on Spain over what it sees as Madrid's failure to tackle Internet piracy. A banner with the seals of the US Department of Justice, plus two other bureaucracies, informs Internet users that the Spanish domain name, formerly a hub of illegal sports content, has been seized in accordance with US copyright law. But if you do a search, it takes very little to realize that Roja Directa is alive and kicking."
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
[The Inquisition exits]
Chapman: I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition!
My RSS reader is showing the comment box, for me to type something in. This is bizarre.
Not very bizarre /. has two feeds, one with comments and one without.
'I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds'
(...)the Spanish domain name, formerly a hub of illegal sports content (...)
Is a Spanish-focused site, and in Spain, file sharing is not proved in court to be illegal (some argue that it is, some that don't, but certainly no judge has pronounced the word "guilty" to a file sharer). But the summary is even more wrong. Quoting Roja Directa's blog:
Not only does Rojadirecta not transmit the aforementioned content, but it does not directly transmit any other type of audio or video content. Rojadirecta is simply an index of sporting events available on the Internet and not a provider of audio and video content.
Don't know about the US, but this is certainly not illegal in Spain. That's why the government has introduced Sinde's bill. Sinde's bill allows a civil commission (yes, bypassing courts!) to seize websites that link to content. I wonder if they will try to shut down Google or Bing.
so many people hate the USofA.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I find humurous that a country has to "attack" other country to force this one country to change laws, and other similar stuff, to shutdown a website that seems to host TV from soccer games.. you know, what VHS was invented for. Oh, terrible!, some spanish people is saving a boring soccer game and sharing it on the internets!.. TERRIBLE!.
-Woof woof woof!
The bizarre part isn't that there are comments. It's that, instead of displaying other people's comments, it gave me the box to type, preview, and submit my own (and it worked, for first post). It has never been that way before today. And that's not to mention the fact that the actual website was erroring out at the time.
I wonder how legal this can be?!
- ICANN is a corporation and thus open to be sued by Spanish government... even if acting on behalf of US government.
- The US government doesn't have jurisdiction in Spain (for the servers) and the domain name doesn't pose an infringement.
- There's no legal process.
- ".com" is not ".us" thus open to challenge in international law.
- If you people take your "product" to US they are importing it , sounds like the US suing Cuba for their citizens buying there cigars and taking them to US soil...
... the bill would allow to close LEGAL websites. The Sinde's bill does not change what is legal or illegal (that would require modifications to the Intellectual Property law, which the bill does not include), and with the current laws what those websites do is legal, as evidenced by about a dozen cases in which judges ruled that there was no crime, versus zero cases in which the ruling was the opposite. Also the bill most likely goes against the Spanish Constitution, as it allows to close websites without a judge overseeing the process (whereas the Constitution mandates that a judge orders any interruption of a publication, such as closing a website, forbiding the distribution of a printed publication or the transmission of a radio or TV program, etc.): the judge is only asked whether closing the website affects freedom of speech, nothing more. Furthermore, the judge is explicitly forbidden from examining if there's a justification for closing the website (i.e. if there's anything illegal going on).
Except those activities are legal according to Spanish law. Read this comment, my ill-informed friend: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2209976&cid=36332594
"A bill that would allow Spain's authorities to close down illegal websites with limited judicial oversight... a pithy warning against Internet piracy, courtesy of the US authorities... A banner with the seals of the US Department of Justice, plus two other bureaucracies... in accordance with US copyright law..."
Read the linked comment. Read the Spanish IP law. Learn about concepts such as "private copy", and "blank media levy" and what they entail according to Spanish laws. Then, when you know what you're talking about, come back and we can start having a meaningful discussion on the topic.
You would think Spain would be concerned with more pressing matters right now...like their 20% unemployment rate, the tens of thousands of people protesting in the streets, and the likely collapse of their financial system.
I have too.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
No one is telling you to blindly accept anything. But at least make the effort to become slightly less ill-informed (actually, I want to say "ignorant", but you may take offense if I do). For starters, start by learning that the bill already passed, which it shouldn't have as it violates the Constitution. Also realize that legal/constitutional challenges can't be sorted out AFTER the bill passes, because the bill would be illegal until they're sorted out. And while you're at it, take into account that sorting out constitutional challenges requires modifying the Constitution, which according to the Spanish laws requires the government to dissolve, have elections, and then the newly elected government must proceed with a referendum to decide if the Constitution is actually modified.
As for starting an actual legal argument (which I partially have, or maybe you thought that me referring to what the Spanish laws say and what the judges have ruled was just a load of BS? Surely it can't be that I am -prepare to be surprised- both Spanish and knowledgeable about this particular topic, as are the many lawyers that have stated the same things I have?), frankly I see no reason to do so until you can prove that you know what you're talking about, which so far you've failed to do. As I said, read the Spanish IP law, learn about "private copy" and "blank media levy" and what they entail, learn about what the judges have ruled so far in related cases, and then I'll gladly start that legal argument. Otherwise, it's like Einstein trying to argue about physics with me (that meaning that I barely know the basics when it comes to that field, never went further than high-school level physics).
So it's not just here in Spain that this page wouldn't load earlier? That's good to know...
Seriously the US and its Corporations are removing peoples rights left and right. Except for weapons and 300mil consumer what the hell does the IS have to offer the world anymore? There's a billion consumers in China and India more then plenty do supply the world with cash flow. Lets develop the third world countries and be done with the US.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
"Spain’s creative industries generate about €62 billion in annual added value for Spain’s €1 trillion economy. They also employ 1.2 million, in a country with five million unemployed, just over 21% of the working-age population."
If they would like to foster their creative industries they would limit the copyright, if not abandon it altogether. Where all the neo-liberals that we all known and love for free market, free trade, liberalization of the markets etc. if it comes to copyright law?
In the only instance where market liberalization should be really done (in the "I.P." market) they push for more government protection, but in every other market where it doesn't make sense and it harms the economy (labor market, financial market) they all push for less government intervention. Such hypocrite assholes.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
Your reading comprehension is even worse than your understanding of the topic, apparently. Where exactly did I claim to be a lawyer, oh wise one?
As for the synopsis: article 31.2 of the Spanish Intellectual Property law. That "synopsed" enough for ya, bro? But yeah, you're right, this is Slashdot, where nobody gives a rat's tail if someone makes factually wrong statements and people never bother to check if what they say is right, which leads to things like this conversation between you and me, which could have been avoided if you didn't insist on talking about things that you know nothing about.
Also, your second assumption is wrong indeed. A "private copy" is not necessarily a backup, since the maker of the copy is not required to be the owner of the source of the copy (i.e I can make a copy of stuff I don't own). That doesn't mean that I can't make copies of stuff I own, I can and it's also considered a private copy. Note that the concept of "private copy" does not apply to software, though: in the case of software, you MUST be the owner of the source of the copy, and you don't have to pay the levy (theoretically, in practice you pay it even when the law explicitly states that you shouldn't; in fact, this has prompted a decision by the European Court that mandates that Spain changes the current levy system to one in which those that don't have to pay according to the law are not forced to pay).
Regarding Roja Directa... They merely tell you where someone else is streaming a certain content. How is that illegal (under Spanish laws, don't try to be smart by referencing laws that exclusively apply elsewhere).
Finally, about the violation of the Constitution... I thought you had read the comment I linked to earlier? It's already sufficiently explained in it.
Government attempts at censorship only make those sites more popular in accordance with the Streisand Effect. I suggest using the MafiaaFire Redirector Addon for Firefox. Since the US Government starting seizing domains I've found some excellent torrents sites I never before knew existed. Roja Directa is still up. You can access it here http://www.rojadirecta.es I for one am thankful my government is clueless as to how the Internet works.
Police chief says downloading content from eMule is no problem
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_13688.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk7j_Pe1itg 2:48 - 3:12 (Spanish)
‘You can download whatever you want from eMule. Just DON'T SELL IT.’
--Jorge Martín, Head of the Security Group of the Judicial Police Technology Investigation Brigade (BIT)
Downloads have always been legal in Spain as long as you don't do it for profit (e.g. Selling downloaded bootleg copies of X-Men on the street = NO. Downloading and sharing (for free) X-Men = YES). Pro-Copyright groups, such as SGAE and PROMUSICAE, keep spinning as fast as they can that downloads are illegal/alegal in Spain, which is a blatant lie. Not true. False. And they know it. Time after time judges have acquitted file-sharers & file-sharing sites webmasters. Hell, the judges even understood how torrent links work. Double hell! Spain's chief attorney issued a memo to all courts warning them that file-sharing links and P2P are absolutely legal in Spain. SGAE suffered such appalling, brutal defeats in the courts (some of the judges' comments are specially harsh on them) that they had to change strategy: lobby to get the law changed. That was just what the US wanted too! So all aboard the lobby boat! And that's just what has happened, as the relevant Wikileaks papers show: US Embassy lobbied to get the law changed. And that's, my friends, why in Spain they are going to put up with the "Sinde Act". Because downloads were (are still) LEGAL and the only way around that was to make new laws.
TL;DR: FACT: Donwloads in Spain are LEGAL (so far). Pro-Copyright SPIN 1: Downloads in Span are A-legal. Pro-Copyright SPIN 2: Downloads in Spain are I-llegal but there are loopholes. Pro-Copyright SPIN 3: Downloads in Spain are I-llegal but police won't enforce the law because they consider them petty offenses/Spain is lawless/... FACT: Both domestic pro-Copyright groups and US Gov. lobbied to get the laws changed since they couldn't win in court. FACT: Wikileaks papers show how the US Embassy lobbied to get the law changed and how easily and readily the local authorities bent.
There are tons of info on this topic, but mostly in Spanish. However, at Torrentfreak they have some posts on these issues.
2019 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Well, it has happened a lot to me that the "net" was down (HTTP only) but torrents and eDonkey files were working normally (both up and downloads). Solution: restart the router.
2019 is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Really? There's no statute that's explicitly prohibiting you from breathing, but that doesn't mean your behaviour is lawful or even "legal". Stop breathing this instant, you leech on the nation's atmosphere, you!
Skip skap voodlee vatten - toodley da day!