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New Superbug Strain Found In Cows and People

sciencehabit writes "A novel form of deadly drug-resistant bacteria that hides from a standard test has turned up in Europe. Researchers found the so-called MRSA strain in both dairy cows and humans in the United Kingdom, suggesting that it might be passed from dairies to the general population. But before you toss your milk, don't panic: The superbug isn't a concern in pasteurized dairy products."

97 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. We all know what happens when stories like this by gcnaddict · · Score: 3, Insightful
    break.

    IT SPREADS FROM MILK TO PEOPLE? DUMP ALL MILK.

    It doesn't even matter if it's pasteurized. How many people in the general population even know what pasteurization means? Some food purists only know that the process makes food taste a little different, even if it's healthier as a result.

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    1. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Funny

      How many people in the general population even know what pasteurization means?

      It clearly refers to free-range milk. You know, letting it wander around in the pasture all day. Pasteurization.

      Thanks, I'll be here all week.

    2. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by The+Wooden+Badger · · Score: 1

      It's even funnier because it is so ironic.

      --
      Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
    3. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Uhyve · · Score: 1

      (In case you didn’t know: Milk from a healthy normal cow in a species-appropriate environment doesn't have any unhealthy germs. That just happens if you feed them with animal meal, and let them stand in their own shit [which they hate], so that their udders become dirty, and their immune system falls apart. That's also the reason they give them so much antibiotics. It's disgusting. Pure unscrupulousness and greed.)

      So you're saying that cows are sterile unless you make them stand in shit?

    4. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ahhh, it's that whole bio-fad, then?

      Well, thanks for the info, I'll go for pasteurized then. Thank god you informed me so I know what milk I can still drink! Can you imagine, just lately I've seen a label on milk about it being "homogenized", and I don't want homo genes in my food!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This guy does not need to be marked as troll. He's right. People don't know what pasteurization is. Ask someone. And many "food purists" think raw milk is better. (It is under extremely controlled situations and if your immune system is capable of handling 'variations' as they occur! hint: many people are so clean that a common cold is a a pygmy disaster waiting to happen to them)

      And yes, he is also correct in pointing out that people over-react wildly and stupidly. Maybe not the slashdot crowd, but most definitely the fox-news crowd among others.

    6. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Most (if not all) germs in raw milk don't come from inside the cow, they colonise the milk in the chain between cow and human. Also it's well known that milk can trigger asthma in some people, it has nothing to do with "heated animal protiens" or the immune system of cows, it's simply an allergic reaction to milk.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unless you're two days old that's, bullshit. All protein is broken down into amino acid chains before absorption.

      If that were true, then scrapie, BSE (mad cow disease), and other transmissible encephalopathies would not exist.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Gerzel · · Score: 2

      Why? Because cows have those germs naturally as part of their GI tract. Germs that in large quantities are harmful to humans. Food poisoning from bad milk has been a problem recorded well back into the middle ages and earlier. It has been seen on many different types of farms not just factory farms and from free range cattle and is well studied and known by science.

      Your friend has a milk allergy. It's possible that different forms of milk won't aggrevate it as much, but likewise some people will have a horrid milk allergy to a protein in raw milk, but no allergy to those in heat treated milk.

      If it was heated animal proteins then why doesn't the steak and other meats bother him? What is so special about milk proteins?

      As for the body used undigested proteins...no it doesn't. Your gut is hellishly low pH, no protein is going to survive that pepsin and HCL hellstorm without alteration.

    9. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You don't even see the problem in your post, because it is so ingrained into our society.

      Your first sentence is fine. Make fun of those people all you want. It is your second (perens) is where the problem is. WHY is there liability for RAW milk, in such a way that a STATE feels like it needs to regulate it by laws? You realize that this line of thinking is why we call it the "Nanny State", right?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    10. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by BlackBloq · · Score: 1

      I sell raw cheese but am personally vegan!@
      Kinda funny! But not really.

    11. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by BlackBloq · · Score: 1

      You know this how? What an ill informed opinion. As a grocery manager I can tell you people do know what it is and ask about it all the time. There is raw cheese legal to sell as I do at my store. Sign under it says "This product is made from RAW milk". So it sells more. There is a raw milk 'movement' (think bowels). They have to buy direct from farmers and it's a legal grey area. They seem kinda nuts to me though. Yes they really do know what pasteurization is. A LOT of ppl look for raw juice to keep the enzymes alive and all that. Buy a juicer nimwits!

    12. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting that every harmful substance can be sold in the supermarket? I prefer that I can go shopping and that I can just try whatever looks good, without needing to be worried that one of these things is a big health risk.

    13. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      OK, so some nutjobs thinks pasteurized *insert whatever* is bad for you somehow (as opposed to just tasting different and maybe having a little more in the way of vitamins/enzymes/whatever). BUT, your missing a point here, it's a personal freedom thing. If I want to buy milk that hasn't been pasteurized for the taste (btw, it does taste very different, many say better), knowing full well the risks (up to and including death, though usually NOT death), why the hell shouldn't I be able to. I can get raw meat, undercooked seafood, etc. Its basically the same risk, so why not milk? Just slap that undercooked food hazard warning label on the container. So.... most states have made the sale of raw milk completely illegal, or restricted to a small number of dairies people drive hours to get to. Por Que? Even if you think raw foodists are nutters (many are I think), it comes down to how much government you want in your life (ahhh, wheres the tea "party" when you need them). First its your drugs, then its your supplements, then its the way you can buy your food. I know theres a lot of charlatanry out there, but hey, buyer beware and a sucker being born every minute is just the way of the world.

    14. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      DiHydrogenMonoxide is deadly if mishandled, it should be regulated. It is also used in Torture, which means we should ban it completely.

      You can drink Pasteurized milk, and nobody is stopping you.You've made the mistake of confusing having a choice as preventing you from making it.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    15. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Almost, but not quite. It's free range because the cows can walk around past-your-eyes.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    16. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Actually, the US allows an "acceptable" level of antibiotics in milk. Antibiotics are routinely added to feed as the cows grow larger when given a low level dose of antibiotics.

      Unfortunately, the over-use of antibiotics (in animal feed; washing up liquid; hand soap etc) allows pathogens to develop resistance to them which can lead to "superbug" strains.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    17. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by torgis · · Score: 1

      I find it, well, confusing, that you can be fined or jailed for selling milk directly from a cow. But cigarettes and alcohol are perfectly legal. The former could make you sick if mishandled, the latter two are known poisons and carcinogens and have been scientifically proven to be bad for you. If I'm legally allowed to poison myself with alcohol, I should also legally be allowed to (possibly) poison myself with raw milk. Nanny state indeed.

    18. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Samus · · Score: 1

      H2O is regulated. The government sets standards for its purity levels somewhat based on scientific studies. They set regulations on things like just how much arsenic in the water is safe to drink. I'm rather glad they don't take a Libertarian/Tea Party stance and leave it up to industry/big business to decide that for me. I for one am happy that for the most part I don't have to worry about my kids drinking tap water.

      --
      In Republican America phones tap you.
    19. Re:We all know what happens when stories like this by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Whoosh.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  2. "The superbug isn't a concern... by ridgecritter · · Score: 1

    "... in pasteurized dairy products."

    Right. As if the only route by which this organism could get to humans is through dairy products. Scenario: dairy worker, gets scratched and infected with superbug at work, sees doctor for treatment (unsuccessful), enters hospital for treatment, infection spreads, becomes one more nocosomial infection we have to deal with.

    1. Re:"The superbug isn't a concern... by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure you may want to read the sentence that comes before that one. No one's saying it's not a concern, just that it doesn't survive the pasteurization process. Which makes sense, because pasteurization involves a great deal of heat, and the kind of microbes that infect the human body tend not to do well with extreme levels of heat.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    2. Re:"The superbug isn't a concern... by ridgecritter · · Score: 1

      Well, fair enough and point taken. I misconstrued the quoted sentence as happytalk intended to minimize the hazards of a new MRSA strain and conflated it with my long-standing concerns with the near-universal use of antibiotics in raising animals in the meat and dairy industries.

    3. Re:"The superbug isn't a concern... by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      In another world, that might be a fair and major concern, but considering that this is a piece of science journalism intended to notify the public about something bad, it's a very high priority to prevent mass panic. If the article sought to trivialize the threat posed by antibiotic abuse, it probably wouldn't use the word 'superbug,' which has become tightly connected with factory farming and hospital hypersterilization.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  3. And there it is by erroneus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not long ago, there was a story about a group suing the FDA to stop antibiotic use on cows.

    It has been known for a long time that the continuous use of antibiotics lead to the cultivation of "superbugs." And here we have it now.

    Will the FDA actually take notice on this issue now? We'll see I guess...

    1. Re:And there it is by Haedrian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But think of the profit loss! You think this country was founded on the principles of taking care of future generations?

      Gimmie my quick buck and to hell with the future.

      Yes I'm being satirical but its pretty much how everything works. From superbugs to climate change to renewable resources to giving away liberties to fight the 'secret new enemy'

    2. Re:And there it is by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      It has been known for a long time that the continuous use of antibiotics lead to the cultivation of "superbugs." And here we have it now.

      Well what the hell do you expect? Idiots from marketing, to 'health' to government have spent the last 10 years have been telling people to use shit like *insert antibacterial* crap.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:And there it is by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Thats funny, I dont think it was founded on either of those principals. I rather thought "freedom" and "restricted government" were the primary principles.

      But no, carry on, lots of regulation is exactly what the founders meant with the 10th amendment.

      (NB-- I actually think this might be a good place for regulation-- but to state that thats one of the founding principles is absurd)

    4. Re:And there it is by chooks · · Score: 1

      This is pretty old news. There are papers from 1980 that talk about chloramphenicol resistant (a really strong antibiotic) bug transmission from dairy farm to human. (An epidemic of resistant Salmonella in a nursery. Animal-to-human spread. Lyons RW, Samples CL, DeSilva HN, Ross KA, Julian EM, Checko PJ.JAMA. 1980 Feb 8;243(6):546-7.)

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
    5. Re:And there it is by sjames · · Score: 1

      They're much too busy rubber stamping hair and penis pills and otherwise funneling profits into big tobacco and big pharma to concern themselves with such trivialities as human health.

    6. Re:And there it is by doccus · · Score: 1

      A bit too late, I'm afraid .. methinks the damage is done

    7. Re:And there it is by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Will the FDA actually take notice on this issue now? We'll see I guess...

      They HAVE taken notice. Their solution is to ban unpasteurized dairy products, going so far as to raid health food stores and Amish farmers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:And there it is by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

      Have you read the biographies* of some of the founders? Many were upper class citizens who were merchant class and were not angry at "freedoms" lost, but rather the profits lost by the taxes imposed by the King. Freedom was a half-truth about not wanting someone else limiting their profits, and sounding good to the masses.

      *I have recently had to read/quiz my daughter on biographies she's reading for school. As I read through them, all I could think was - damn, these guy were really modern age Republicans, with little regard for anything but their business bottom line. Things change very little, save the names we give them.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    9. Re:And there it is by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Just because you disagree with their supposed motivations (and I will admit I am not qualified to speak to the founders motivations in detail), doesnt mean that their conclusions (restricted government, representation, checks and balances) were flawed.

      I would wonder, if one has so much trouble trusting large corporations with power, why would you want to turn around and grant so much more power to an even larger, more bureaucratic, and more entrenched federal government-- particularly when it has shown such a disinclination to ever ever give an inch of power back once gained? I mean, at least corporations tend to fail periodically; the government will be with us until a rather large upheaval unsettles it (and anyone looking forward to such an event doesnt have a clue).

  4. Re:US cheese by cvtan · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can buy unpasteurized milk (and maybe yogurt) at the local farmers market, but I think you are right about the cheese (and butter). FYI and off topic: Taste testers at America's Test Kitchen showed that organic milk has a taste inferior to "normal" milk because it has to be pasteurized at a higher temperature.

    --
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  5. antibiotic resistance has already been solved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just posted on reddit under reddit/r/science because I got tired of reading news pieces like this. Antibiotic resistance has been taken care of by the use of bacteriophages. Basically phages are viruses for bacteria and they continually evolve with the ever evolving strains of bacteria. For each type of bacteria and the different strains there is a phage which will kill it.

    For more info please read my post: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/hr0gk/hey_redditrscience_just_so_you_all_knowwe_have/

    Now if we could just get big pharma behind these non-patentable viruses found in nature and we'd see wide spread use of them in the west...

    1. Re:antibiotic resistance has already been solved by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      so swallow a spider to swallow the fly? no thanks

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    2. Re:antibiotic resistance has already been solved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obligatory:

      Skinner: Well, I was wrong; the lizards are a godsend.
      Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
      Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
      Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
      Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
      Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
      Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death. [edit]

    3. Re:antibiotic resistance has already been solved by Orangebeard · · Score: 2

      Bacteriophages have no ability to infect humans. In fact, they can only infect a specific kind of bacteria; it won't kill other bacteria. Which is really good because if it was so easy for viruses to jump from one species to another, we'd all be dead already. Phage literally means "to eat". Once all the bacteria are dead, their food will be gone and the bacteriophages will die off.

      Phages could be very useful as another line of defense against bacteria. I know if I was infected with antibiotic resistant bacteria and was going to die, having more options available would be more than welcome. Not only that but viruses in general are going to be very useful in the future from gene therapy (which might just cure HIV), to attacking cancer cells (talk about swallowing a spider what with chemo and radiation; viruses would be far more targeted and elegant).

    4. Re:antibiotic resistance has already been solved by sjames · · Score: 1

      More like swallow a slightly toxic fly to poison the spider.

  6. Evolving by Ceiynt · · Score: 1

    Do they really expect these things to never evolve? We feed them enough drugs for long enough, the survivors will pass on whatever it was that allowed them to survive to the next generation. Sooner or later, they have a whole colony that is immune to drug X and Y, we just need to find drug Z and AA, and in another 50-100 years, repeat. Sooner or later, we'll be able to go back to drug X and Y.

    1. Re:Evolving by RuiFerreira · · Score: 1

      It would be good, but what would be the reason for the descent of that colony to stop being immune to the previous drugs?

    2. Re:Evolving by jamesh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would be good, but what would be the reason for the descent of that colony to stop being immune to the previous drugs?

      genetic bitrot

    3. Re:Evolving by tsotha · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because the mechanisms that allow a bacteria to survive exposure to a given antibiotic come at a cost. It's not the genes themselves that confer resistance - it's the expression of those genes. And the same process that introduced the resistance-conferring gene works to eliminate it if it's no longer needed.

      For example, there is a class of antibiotics that work by dissolving the bacterial cell wall. After repeated exposure germs evolve thicker cell walls, which makes this class of antibiotics less and less effective. But in its absence the thicker-walled bacteria version will be out-competed by its thinner-walled brethren, since thin walls are less resource intensive.

      For the most part the antibiotics we use are just synthetic versions of chemicals secreted by various organisms (bacteria and fungi, mostly). If bacteria could pass down cost-free resistance they'd already be immune to anything we could throw at them.

    4. Re:Evolving by HForN · · Score: 2

      The mutations are generally costly. Antibacterials, for example, target molecules that only bacteria have to have a minimal effect on humans, like how penicillin works on bacterial cell walls. Those molecules are originally there basically because it benefits them in some way. Since taking even a huge cost is better than dying, those that do away with what the antibacterial attacks would live and propagate. Naturally, once you stop using the antibacterial by switching to Z/AA, there's no benefit to living without the original molecule, but there is a heavy cost, so generations later it'll come back, letting us use X/Y again. The key is having enough time to make sure resistance is completely gone before going back to X/Y, otherwise it won't be long until they're completely resistant again.

    5. Re:Evolving by cavebison · · Score: 1

      it's the expression of those genes

      Can we finally all agree now that there's a limit to freedom of expression?

    6. Re:Evolving by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      *rimshot*

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  7. It's bigger than the FDA by cultiv8 · · Score: 1

    Unless I'm missing something, it's the widespread use of antibiotics in general, not just on cows, that leads to so-called "superbugs".

    --
    sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
    1. Re:It's bigger than the FDA by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hehe... no, you didn't miss anything. What you did do, however, is presume my statements were limited to bovine livestock. And I am speaking of the prophylactic use of antibiotics in the dairy industry, it's true, but I did not specify.

      The problem is clear, present, immediate and demonstrable. For the FDA to fail to act now would mean they are ignoring the facts as available to the world public. Even the US government which has long been a denier of climate change has eventually acknowledged it as fact.

    2. Re:It's bigger than the FDA by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      over use in general causes it, agribusiness makes over use of antibiotics a primary part of their operation in order to grow bigger fatter animals faster.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    3. Re:It's bigger than the FDA by OFnow · · Score: 1

      ...agribusiness makes over use of antibiotics a primary part of their operation in order to grow bigger fatter animals faster.

      In the case of cows in feedlots, they feed'em antibiotics because corn makes cows sick, so they try to keep the cows healthy enough long enough to make feedlots profitable.

  8. Article, for those without access by ridgecritter · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/06/new-superbug-found-in-cows-and-p.html?ref=hp

    A novel form of deadly drug-resistant bacteria that hides from a standard test has turned up in Europe. Researchers found the so-called MRSA strain in both dairy cows and humans in the United Kingdom, suggesting that it might be passed from dairies to the general population. But before you toss your milk, don't panic: The superbug isn't a concern in pasteurized dairy products.

    MRSA, short for meticillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, is a drug-resistant form of the widespread and normally harmless S. aureus bacteria. Many people walk around with MRSA in their noses or on their skin yet don't get sick. But in some hospital patients and people with weakened immune systems, MRSA thrives, and it is blamed for about 19,000 hospital deaths a year in the United States.

    Mark Holmes of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom and colleagues stumbled upon the new strain while studying mastitis, or infected udders, in U.K. dairy cows. Some milk samples from sick cows contained S. aureus bacteria that grew in the presence of antibiotics, which is one test for MRSAs. Yet the same samples turned up negative for the drug-defying bacterium when the team used PCR, a DNA amplification technique, to detect a gene called mecA, which is found in all MRSA strains.

    The PCR test doesn't always pick up variants of the gene it's meant to detect, however. To check this, the researchers sent a cow S. aureus sample to the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridge, which sequenced the bacterium's entire genome. "Lo and behold, there was a mecA gene there," one whose sequence overlapped with the better-known mecA by a surprisingly low 60%, Holmes said today in a press conference.

    The researchers then looked for this mecA gene in people. They tested 74 samples of S. aureus isolated from people from the United Kingdom and Denmark that were drug resistant in the antibiotic growth test but not in the PCR test—most from carriers but some from patients who were sickened by MRSA. They found the new mecA in about two-thirds of the samples, they report today in The Lancet Infectious Diseases. A nearly identical mecA gene has also now been reported in human samples from Germany and Ireland.

    The strain is still relatively rare—it probably makes up less than 1% of all detected MRSA cases, the U.K. team says. But its prevalence appears to have risen in the past decade. "More likely it's been around in the environment for a long time, and it's just getting into the human population," says University College Dublin microbiologist David Coleman, whose team reports on the Irish samples today in Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy.

    The new superbug probably isn't leading to missed infections, at least in the United Kingdom, because hospitals that suspect a patient is infected with an MRSA nearly always use the antibiotic growth test in addition to PCR, Holmes says. (Patients with a confirmed infection then receive antibiotics that work on MRSAs.) However, many hospitals in continental Europe are moving toward using only PCR tests; this is a warning that those tests need to be modified to test for the new mecA gene, Holmes says.

    The study also points to dairy cows as a possible reservoir for the bug, just as pigs seem to pass MRSA to humans in the Netherlands. The bug probably doesn't get to humans through the milk supply, because almost all milk in the United Kingdom and Denmark is pasteurized, a process that kills bacteria. But workers who come into contact with infected dairy cows could be carriers. Holmes's team reports "circumstantial evidence" for this, such as the fact that genetic subtypes of the human and cow samples from the same geographical areas were nearly identical. "The main worry would be that these cows represent a pool of the bacteria" that farm workers spread into the human popula

  9. antibiotic resistance has solved ~80 years ago by DevotedFollower · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am getting tired of reading these news articles about antibiotic resistance. We have the solution to dealing with antibiotic resistance from nature. Bacteriophages are viruses that only attack bacteria and can be used to treat patients or food for bacterial infections. They evolved with bacteria as new strains appear. For each type of bacteria and their different strains there are phages that will work against them. I made a post on reddit about my ordeal with an antibiotic resistant infection I had and how phagetherapy saved me. Feel free to pm me on either site if you have more questions. http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/hr0gk/hey_redditrscience_just_so_you_all_knowwe_have/

  10. Organic milk? by denzacar · · Score: 1

    You mean the one NOT squeezed out by robot-cows?
    I just love how people use that magic-yet-imprecise word for absolutely everything.

    Hey, you know why Han Solo's kids are the healthiest in the Galaxy?
    Cause they are organaic.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Organic milk? by cvtan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My favorite is BMW advertising that they use organic alcohol in their car-care products. I'd hate to use that inorganic alcohol stuff on MY car! In other environmental news, Poland Spring bottled water now is greener than ever since they have reduced the height of the cap on their plastic bottles: "Smaller Cap=Less Plastic!". The cap is now a choking hazard.

      --
      Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  11. Zombie Cow Infestation: Day 1 by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    You heard it here first! MoooooooooooooooooooCHOMP!

  12. Pasteurization by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

    Maybe this will put a stop to the raw milk nonsense.

    1. Re:Pasteurization by Rufty · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Maybe this will put a stop to the rare steak nonsense.

      --
      Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
    2. Re:Pasteurization by HappyCycling · · Score: 1

      Why even drink the milk from another animal? There are many alternatives that aren't full of growth-hormones such as soy and almond.

    3. Re:Pasteurization by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What rare steak nonsense?

    4. Re:Pasteurization by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I doubt it, resturants want you to have your steak bloody because cooking it properly takes 20-30min and they want you occuping the table for as short a time as possible.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    5. Re:Pasteurization by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Today is the first I've heard of the "raw milk nonsense". I'm frankly amazed this exists at all. In Australia and Canada and probably other countries selling unpasturised milk is illegal.

    6. Re:Pasteurization by AfroTrance · · Score: 1

      Since when is cooking a steak well done cooking it "properly"?

      I define "properly" as high heat, 3-4 minutes each side, for a sirloin cut.

    7. Re:Pasteurization by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Why even drink the milk from another animal? There are many alternatives that aren't full of growth-hormones such as soy and almond.

      Those are indeed good alternatives. I personally like the taste of rice milk the best, it leaves the most pleasant aftertaste in your mouth.

      But there's just one issue: these dairy milk alternatives are terribly expensive, atleast in here. When the alternatives cost 150%-300% of the price of dairy milk it's no wonder people rather choose the latter.

    8. Re:Pasteurization by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Actually it is more that once you cook a steak beyond medium rare you may as well be eating a cheap piece of supermarket meat as you lose all the flavour anyway. What is the point of being in a restaurant if any old piece of crap would have kept you happy. PS: even a well done piece of meat only takes 3 or 4 minutes each side, 20-30 mins is cremated.

    9. Re:Pasteurization by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      Obviously the parent cooks his steaks using the sous vide method.

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    10. Re:Pasteurization by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Many before you have dreamed of a barn filled with heavy-breasted ladies. Few have succeeded.

    11. Re:Pasteurization by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      OK, so some nutjobs thinks pasteurized *insert whatever* is bad for you somehow (as opposed to just tasting different and maybe having a little more in the way of vitamins/enzymes/whatever). BUT, your missing a point here, it's a personal freedom thing. If I want to buy milk that hasn't been pasteurized for the taste (btw, it does taste very different, many say better), knowing full well the risks (up to and including death, though usually NOT death), why the hell shouldn't I be able to. I can get raw meat, undercooked seafood, etc. Its basically the same risk, so why not milk? Just slap that undercooked food hazard warning label on the container. So.... most states have made the sale of raw milk completely illegal, or restricted to a small number of dairies people drive hours to get to. Por Que? Even if you think raw foodists are nutters (many are I think), it comes down to how much government you want in your life (ahhh, wheres the tea "party" when you need them). First its your drugs, then its your supplements, then its the way you can buy your food. I know theres a lot of charlatanry out there, but hey, buyer beware and a sucker being born every minute is just the way of the world.

    12. Re:Pasteurization by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      I have done just that. In general the sites that are promoting raw milk are also promoting all sorts of other nonsense as well including homeopathy, high cholesterol diets, and that you shouldn't get your children vaccinated. They are seriously screwed up.

      There is a reason that it is generally illegal to sell raw milk products. People get sick and sometimes die from drinking it. It spreads serious diseases including some forms of tuberculosis.

    13. Re:Pasteurization by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      I was horrified too. In the past year I have learned that for every real and beneficial advance in public heath or modern medicine there is a fringe group somewhere that thinks that this advance is wrong, detrimental and should be opposed as much as possible.

      The internet has given all of these opinions a forum and I am amazed at how many people are such uncritical consumers of and adulterants to these ideas.

    14. Re:Pasteurization by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Your personal anecdotal experiences don't amount to acceptable countervailing evidence that it is an unhealthy practice.

      Here is a link to a recent article on the topic.

      http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/1/93.full

      Please note that the increased consumption raw milk post 2005 has led to several disease outbreaks in the US.

      Advocacy of the consumption of raw milk is a VERY wrong-headed position.

  13. Re:Haw-Haw! by aix+tom · · Score: 1

    So don't worry about this, worry about EHEC in vegetables instead. Haw-Haw!

  14. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Informative
  15. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by cvtan · · Score: 2

    Didn't pasteurization become routine because people died from contaminated raw milk?

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  16. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by Mashiki · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Except in your example, and that of the CDC, the cheeses are all soft. Soft cheeses don't develop proper cultures to kill off the bad bacteria cultures that promote proper flavoring, textures and so on. Then again, I drank raw milk for 20 years. My parents, grand parents, and their parents before them drank it for years as well. I suppose there's more of an issue in this day and age of people not following what we'd call on the farm of 'don't wipe your mouth with shit' method of keeping things clean. Seriously? My grandmother, mother, and so on were religious in cleaning prep before doing kitchen work. The shit I see today from people makes me cringe.

    Personally? I'd lay more blame at the generation of people who use the antibacterial handsoaps/wipes/lotions/etc for contributing to this mess than anything. And I'll say it again. I fucking told you, that you'd doom us all.

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    Om, nomnomnom...
  17. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    antibacterial is completely different from antibiotic, topical antibacterials do not function at all the same way they are just general antiseptics.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  18. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by russotto · · Score: 1, Informative

    Personally? I'd lay more blame at the generation of people who use the antibacterial handsoaps/wipes/lotions/etc for contributing to this mess than anything. And I'll say it again. I fucking told you, that you'd doom us all.

    Triclosan use doesn't promote bacteria resistant to antibiotics.

  19. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Informative

    Really now? You could just use google and have saved me the 10 seconds to point out what I already knew what right. It does indeed promote bacterial resistance to antibiotics.

    http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/3/621.short

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    Om, nomnomnom...
  20. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    They do. Much like I replied to the other post, google and other search engines are your friend. Antiseptics kill(not all are equal however). Antibacterials can promote selective resistances, and force bacteria to become resistant to antibiotics.

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    Om, nomnomnom...
  21. Re:US cheese by blueg3 · · Score: 2

    No, you can buy unpasteurized cheese in the US.

  22. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by compro01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, many diseases were transmitted via unpasteurized milk, particularly tuberculosis.

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  23. Re:US cheese by CRobin · · Score: 2

    Good organic milks are actually pasteurized at a lower temperature, I can not find this taste test in their archive, but it appears the poster has made up his own reasoning. The reason that most organic milks taste different is the cows eat very different diets than their conventional counterparts. In fact with many organic milks the taste varies by season as the grasses/diet changes with the seasons. I would be willing to bet the taste testers didn't like the organic milk because it actually had flavor, in comparison to the bland over pasteurized conventional milk everyone has been accustomed to.

  24. Re:Haw-Haw! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    For you, there's a version in Spanish cucumbers.

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  25. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

    Then again, I drank raw milk for 20 years. My parents, grand parents, and their parents before them drank it for years as well. I suppose there's more of an issue in this day and age of people not following what we'd call on the farm of 'don't wipe your mouth with shit' method of keeping things clean.

    I congratulate you and your family for not getting sick from raw milk.
    But what works on the farm rarely works when scaled up to industrial quantities.

    Further, your anecdotal evidence is overruled by the mountains of historically reported illnesses and deaths from raw milk contamination of:
    e-coli, tuberculosis, diphtheria, typhoid fever, salmonella, listeria, campylobacter and brucella

    Pasteurization is not some conspiracy to pollute your precious bodily fluids or restrict your god given rights.
    It saves lives.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  26. Re:US cheese by dgatwood · · Score: 1

    Good organic milks are actually pasteurized at a lower temperature...

    Maybe so, but all the organic milk you can buy around here is ultra-pasteurized (higher temperature). As for me, I buy the organic milk because I can buy it and not have to worry about it going bad before I use it. (Shelf life is typically five or six weeks.)

    --

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  27. Well, there is a "superbug" out there right now by NiklasD · · Score: 1

    As you may already have heard, a new strain of E. Coli (EHEC) is spreading in Central Europe (northern Germany seems to be the epicenter) and has killed 18 people so far.

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    Don't drink and sudo

  28. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    I agree and that was my point. AKA the 'don't wipe your mouth with shit' because when you're doing things on your own farm, you're more careful about how you're cleaning a teat. The same reason why when you're slaughtering, you're careful not to puncture the intestines, kidney's, bladder too. But on an industrial process? Pft.

    Pasteurization is fine and all that, but don't dictate to me that it's illegal if I own cows and want to get milk unpasteurized, and drink it myself, for my own use.

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    Om, nomnomnom...
  29. Re:Get informed. by Plainswind · · Score: 2

    80% lactose intolerant? Only for certain populations. In others, 90% of the population can handle lactose, and 10% lactose intolerant. Globally speaking, lactose intolerance is around 50%.

  30. But why stop there... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    When you can have organic water, from organic land and organic charcoal air filters that I suppose will give you organic air.

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    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  31. That's it! by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    I'm not sharing the bathroom with the cows anymore.

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  32. Re:So much for raw milk drinker by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Funny, I grew up on raw milk. Then again, it was from my own farm. I don't drink raw now, but only because of convenience and cost.

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    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  33. Is it really a super bug.. by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    ..if a standard, common practice like Pasteurization easily kills it off? Or maybe I just don't really understand the definition of a super bug. I understand once you're infected, it's damn hard to get rid of, but when it's so straightforward to kill off before ingestion, it doesn't sound so invulnerable.

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  34. Re: Let's look at the big picture here. by australopithecus · · Score: 1

    Right, because antibiotic-resistant superbugs in raw milk obviously killed off most of humanity prior to the discovery of pasteurization....?

    So here's the issue: all industry gets scaled up for the sake of profit. works great for manufacturing and mechanized processes, but the process of creating food isn't mechanical. we aren't purely mechanical beings, and we shouldn't be gaining energy from chemical food; this is a fairly clear statement and it's not difficult to see the ramifications of doing so (e.g. extremely obese indivuduals suffering from malutrition, child onset adult diabetes, etc.)

    In the process of scaling up food production, we've created artificially toxic environments that demand the use of prophylactic antibiotics, a process that is known to create antibiotic-resistant strains of pathogenic germs.

    This has nothing to do with raw milk being unsafe when consumed from a dairy that even remotely resembles the concept of a true farm. i drink raw cow's milk daily, and have done so for two years. i trust the producer, i know what they do to process the milk; the milk i drink comes from a situation that is far more hygienic than anything you would buy in the store.

    TLDR: create large food operations for profit, have disease outbreaks which are entirely a result of the large size of the operation, create stringent rules that are necessary only due to problems which arise from being an industrial-sized food producer, turn food from smaller producers which may be more wholesome into a criminals. continue profiting from processes which will inherently produce dangerous corollary outcomes.

  35. Re:US cheese by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

    Definitely not yoghurt because yoghurt from unpasteurized milk would leave you the whole day sitting on the pot trying to shit your guts out.

    In fact, even pasteurized milk is somewhat dangerous as yoghurt base, UHT is safer.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  36. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

    Perhaps, although this is a highly controversial area at the moment.

    What is clear is that:

    1. There is no apparent health benefit from using antibacterial soaps.

    2. There are no apparent health consequences from the induced antibiotic resistances found in some in vitro experiments.

    All in all the best thing would be to not have these products as there is no benefit from them.

  37. Re:Scaring you away from healthy foods by GargamelSpaceman · · Score: 1

    I guess I'm less concerned if a bacteria evolves resistance to bleach, since bleach is useless as a medicine. If I get infected with a sodium hypochlorite resistant bug, then I doubt the doctor was going to prescribe me a tablespoonful of Chlorox for it anyway.

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  38. Re:US cheese by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

    Because normal pasteurisation doesn't kill all bacteria.

    UHT milk works just fine for yoghurt by the way. And at least in Germany it is labeled as H-Milch (H stands for "haltbare" - durable) and is sold unrefrigerated. I haven't done any cheesemaking, though, so I cannot speak about that.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap