NSA Trial Evidence 'Riddled With Boxes and Arrows'

decora writes "In the Espionage Act trial of NSA IT Whistleblower Thomas Drake, the main evidence against him are five documents he allegedly 'willfully retained' in his basement. The government, for the first time, is using the Silent Witness Rule to 'substitute' words in this evidence so that the public will not be able to see the allegedly sensitive information. The result of this 'substitution' process has been described by the defense as a tangled mess of boxes, arrows, and code words [PDF] that will impossibly confuse the facts of the case. 'Two weeks before trial, Mr. Drake and his counsel still do not know what evidence the jury will see.'"

Comments

Rights?

[cyrano.mac]

The rights of the American people are eroding at an alarming rate. It's not new, it has happened before, so we have to conclude that history doesn't really teach us anything.

Re:Rights?

[Samantha Wright]

If you missed it,a few weeks ago here we had another story about Drake. The story of his case is less of an impenetrable vast state chasing him and more like a handful of people whom he knew from his previous job (critical point: at the NSA) trying to manipulate the law to get him put away for whistleblowing on the NSA's spying program—which he claims he didn't even actually do.

This guy's problems are way more Orwellian than anything the average citizen has ever experienced in the United States. Read the New Yorker article I linked to, and you'll gain a new appreciation for why the government has become so messed up over the past decade. Men with no oversight are doing what they will in the name of national security because they've convinced themselves that they can't permit 9/11 to reoccur, and that it was their fault. They've driven themselves mad, falling into the mentality of "those who prefer security to freedom." It's not that they're innately cruel tyrants, or sadists, it's that they're paranoid and guilt-wracked—a horribly dangerous combination when you add on the "defend the collective" mentality that causes police officers to protect each other when corruption charges manifest.

Re:Rights?

[jdpars]

Your information seems helpful, if a little opinionated in places. I do agree with you, however, that this seems to be misuse of otherwise normal laws for a less than ethical purpose. I don't think the silent witness rule is inherently bad. If, for example, the security issue were a country with an attack plan that an NSA member decoded and helped to stop, instead of, say, Afghanistan, the silent witness rule could replace Afghanistan with Madeupaland. I guess the issue comes when, instead, the information comes out as "Smurf smurfed those smurfs who smurf smurfy smurfed smurfs."

Re:Rights?

[kimvette]

The cause of this is that early in the history of our nation the courts started layering precedent over constitutional law, and use that as a basis for determining future cases, even in cases where the decision is obviously a poor one. In this case, it's the State Secrets Privilege which one would argue is a gross violation of the Constitutional right to freedom of exrpession, and also can be used to eliminate accountability of the government to the People.

When you layer enough of these precedents on top of the Constitution and use those precedents to filter your view, the Constitution can become meaningless and irrelevant in cases, and that is how we arrive at the existence of situations such as this, the grossly unconstitutional patriot act, "john doe" lawsuits and warrants, "assault weapons" bans, and the like. Accountability of the government which is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people gradually over time becomes government of the sheeple, by the elite, for the elite, and eventually over time the system distills into a two-party or even one-party system where a few elite hand-pick candidates which are distinguished only by spin, and not truly by methodology or ideals, and put them out for election. Oh, we may still have grassroots-supported candidates now and then (Ron Paul, H. Ross Perot, and so on) but we have become so entrenched in the two party system with corporate-sponsored candidates that we (almost) never pick anyone outside of the two major parties for anything other than local government, never quite coming to the realization that we have been victims of social engineering by the media to believe there really is a difference between republican and democrat politicians, when in reality although their spin on issues may sound different, the ultimate goal is personal gain, increasing pork in legislation, and putting the screws to consumers.

And, these politicians of course, being chosen horses for the courses, never even attempt to correct the judicial system but instead take advantage of the established corrupt system to implement their sponsors' preferred policies.

And yet, we see a great divide between republican and democrat voters, who are convinced that the two parties really are different. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that most of the larger corporate entities who hire lobbyists contribute to not just one candidate's campaigns, but usually one candidate from each party? They really don't care which candidate wins; they just care that one of the bought-and-paid-for candidates gets onto the ballot, then either way they win.

Yes, our rights are eroding at an alarming rate, and it's because we won't open our eyes, realize what has been going on for decades, and simply vote out ALL career politicians and replace them with true leaders; with "leader" being defined as one who is willing to serve. The mark of a truly great leader has been a servant attitude. We as a people have long since forgotten that.

I'll end this with a few great quotes:

"A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman thinks of the next generation." ~James Freeman Clarke, Sermon

"Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason." (unknown)

"And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." - John F. Kennedy

And for the last one, which is the one I adhere to for most elections:

"Hell, I never vote for anybody, I always vote against." ~W.C. Fields

Re:Rights?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Men with no oversight are doing what they will in the name of national security because they've convinced themselves that they can't permit 9/11 to reoccur, and that it was their fault. They've driven themselves mad, falling into the mentality of "those who prefer security to freedom." It's not that they're innately cruel tyrants, or sadists, it's that they're paranoid and guilt-wracked

"Battle not with monsters lest ye become a monster; and if you gaze into the abyss the abyss gazes into you."
--Friedrich Nietzsche

Re:Rights?

[jet_silver]

In the second link there is a line: This problem is exacerbated by the fact that the jury will see that the unclassified lan- guage has been changed and left to wonder why they cannot see information the government’s expert deems unclassified. The jurors will be completely and hopelessly confused.1. So, if the jurors are completely and hopelessly confused, is the real problem that they won't know it? In the face of hopelessly confusing evidence, it seems as though the responsibility of the jury is to acquit. IANAL, but if I were the defense would it not be entirely reasonable to say just that in the wind-up of arguments?

Re:Rights?

[Samantha Wright]

Whoa! Who's showing anger here, really? I read his post as indicating disgust more than anger.

His decision to move the focus from this specific incident, and its relevance to the origin of the problems of the Bush era, to a more generalized complaint about the administration of the United States throughout its entire history struck me as hasty and rant-like. That usually implies an underlying sense of frustration (and therefore anger). However, assessing whether the tone of a passage of written text is disgusted or angry is very a subjective process, and I don't think it makes sense to try and interpret it. It can, after all, be both.

FWIW I see no italicization of "why" in your post.

The italicised "why" is the sixteenth word in the second sentence of the second paragraph, immediately before the portion that countertrolling quoted. It's not very difficult to find, given that it's the only usage of the word "why" in that post.

In any case, discussing a history of malfeasance is always more enlightening than discussing a single incident in isolation. I view his post as relevant to the discussion.

In general it's a pertinent and relevant subject to discuss, but in the context of my assumption that his post was an angry rant, it seemed more like he was going off-topic. The decision to pivot around topics so rapidly and the lack of connective prose tying his statements back into the previous conversation did not present a natural part of the conversation as much as an attempt to ramble about a pet peeve.

The part that really got me was that he said nothing worth saying: no new combination of facts or feelings was presented; it's just the same bitching that arises every time there's a news article on Slashdot that mentions oppressive misconduct by the government. His post could be cut-and-paste in a solid 20% of all Slashdot articles and be just as relevant. That doesn't mean it should be repeated over and over again.

No respondent can read your mind and know the exact intentions of your post. If you wish to limit the discussion please explicitly state the scope of your argument.

While telepathy is indeed not generally an ability found amongst Slashdot posters, I believe I have presented a coherent and consistent position that can be understood without too much trouble. Please read the above carefully and let me know if you have any further concerns.

Re:Rights?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

To be fair, the NSA was culpable for allowing 9/11 to happen. They had information that indicated that the perps were doing something. They also refused to share that info with the FBI and the CIA... It wasn't the first time either.

That culpability is premised on 100% effectiveness. That's an impossible standard for anyone, especially a bureaucracy. I blame the "culture of blame" as the root cause for the over-reaction. Societally we need to have realistic expectations. That isn't to say that government agency's shouldn't be accountable, but that the standards we set for that accountability have be to realistic, not impossible. Being 100% risk averse is to guarantee failure.

Re:Rights?

[gilgongo]

When they reach the point that every family "on the dole" has multiple surveillance cameras throughout their homes, then we will have reached 1984.

Orwell's portrayal of cameras in homes was simply one of many, many totalitarian ideas he wove into the story. A large number of them exist today (the most obvious examples being pacification of the "proles" by means of 24-hour media, and constant war with vague enemies about vague things). To say that we won't have his version of society until we have that one thing is pretty odd. That's like saying we won't have Christmas until somebody gets drunk.

This Comment

[Haedrian]

[See Reference 1] "FALCON" [Page 2.3, line 8] REDACTED your mom

small note on possible COI & wikipedia link

[decora]

I generally avoid linking to wikipedia articles that I wrote from slashdot articles that I wrote, to avoid perceived conflict of interest, and prevent 'one source' circular errors and hidden bias. In this /. story, I did not originally link to the wikipedia Silent Witness Rule article. The link to wikipedia was made by the slashdot editors and not by me, and they had no reason to suspect that the article author and wikipedia author were the same person.

Re:Leaked copy of the document

[Servaas]

This is grown up talk, 4chan is that way ->

Tangled mess of ..

[PPH]

...boxes, arrows and code words.

For some reason, this reminds me of:

We walked in, sat down, Obie came in with the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, sat down. Man came in said, "All rise." We all stood up, and Obie stood up with the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures, and the judge walked in sat down with a seeing eye dog, and he sat down, we sat down. Obie looked at the seeing eye dog, and then at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog. And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry, 'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it, and the judge wasn't going to look at the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us. And we was fined $50 and had to pick up the garbage in the snow, but thats not what I came to tell you about.

From Alice' Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie.

Re:Tangled mess of ..

[countertrolling]

Contrary to what the mods might think, you're not really entirely off topic there, but you could've shortened it up a bit.. or use a completely different quote:

"I had another idea. I think we should have some plays. You know, usually in football you have some organized plays."
"I took the liberty."
"Oh, you have... "
"I drew up about seven or eight plays. I figure that's about all this bunch can handle."
"Oh, these are good. These are very good. Uh, what are these little arrows here?"

Re:Tangled mess of ..

[Chelloveck]

Imagine fifty people a day walking in singing a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may thinks it's a movement.

(Not only did I start humming it when I read the story, I went and put it on the stereo and sang along. With four-part harmony and feeling.)

Security Clearances

[hakioawa]

These sorts of trials/prosecutions, where the USG invokes national security to avoid presenting evidence, are becoming all too common. We currently have 800,000+ citizens with TS clearances (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/). I used to. I'd be happy to serve on a jury in these situations and I assume many other folks would too. With that many people to draw from I would think we could find a good jury pool and give people a fair trial instead of dropping charges or kangaroo courts. It would be slightly more expensive, but I don't understand why this couldn't work.

So, lets see

[sjames]

OK, the government is allowed to present fabricated evidence to the jury IFF the information is otherwise classified, secret, or the government suggests it's better not published, based on the government's say-so, but only if they pinkie swear that there is real evidence somewhere and it's bad news for the defendant? I'm sure that'll NEVER get abused!

If the jury actually understands what is happening, they would have no choice but to acquit, since they won't be shown actual evidence of anything. Since the prosecutor wouldn't bother with a sure loss, I'm guessing the strategy is to confuse the jury as much as possible and smile a lot.

The interesting thing here is that they don't feel they can show these documents to 12 citizens and ask them to keep it quiet for the good of their country. That means either they believe citizens are to be managed like children, or that the information doesn't need to be classified in the first place, or perhaps that it's classified because it would reveal misdeeds on the part of some people in power (that the citizens probably SHOULD know about).

So, is the defendant allowed to present a blank piece of paper if he swears it represents a full confession to trumping up the charges and baby raping on the part of the prosecution if he also swears there's secret stuff in it?