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EG8 Publishes Report In Noninteractive, Nonquotable Format
pbahra writes "You could not come up with a better illustration of the clash of cultures that was the eG8 than the post-forum report. Was the output of the two-day gathering in Paris published on a website so people could link to it? Or perhaps a blog so that people could comment on it? Or even a wiki, so the people who attended could contribute and correct mistakes? No it wasn't. The report is a book. Or rather it is an eBook. Except it isn't even an eBook, in the sense of something that you can read on your Kindle or other eBook reader. It's actually a Flash-based page turner, the sort of thing that was all the rage five years ago. It is a digital facsimile of a book. It is the triumph of design over access. Being Flash, you can't even cut and paste what is in the file. And being Flash it gives complete and total control to the authors. As a user all you get to do is to read it, in exactly the way the authors want you to. It looks good, but you can't do anything with it, except what the authors tell you to do. Metaphor anyone?"
Did Apple make the book for them?
But a feature, from the POV of the creator.
Are you still living in the squalid ghetto of the "reality-based community"?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Just take screen shots of each page and OCR them. Problem?
It looks good, but you can't do anything with it ...
... except do a screen-capture and bitmap-to-pdf conversion and republish.
You could always click on the 'Download' button and save as a PDF document - then you can do as you want with it.
Admittedly a blog or wiki would, perhaps, be nicer to use.
If they had comments, they'd have to hire fifty people just to moderate the Obama Kenyan Birth Certificate posts, anti-NWO posts, anti-ZOG posts, anti-TACMAR posts, Black Helicopters posts, anti-globalization posts, anti-Bilderberger posts, anti-Zeta Reticulan reptoid posts, anti Trilateral Commission posts...
It should still be quotable, though. Then again, did this organization produce anything worthy of quotation?
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Google tells me it is some sort of governmental meeting about the internet.
http://www.eg8forum.com/en/
Could the summary not have expended a sentence about this?
I wonder if this is deliberate. Do they really want easy access and discussion on it ? After all, discussion would mean potential criticism and we can't have that, can we.
"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
After reading the article linked in the summary and the article which that article linked to, the best I can come up with is that it is a meeting of executives from technology companies that want to have more say in the agenda of the meetings of the G-8 countries. Apparently, these executives do not understand technology well enough to release thier report in a readable electronic format.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The point of these sorts of security systems is not to stop a determined attacker, or even to stop an attacker with a low-level of expertise. The point is to be a speedbump, to prevent people from breaking the security system just long enough for the companies to turn a profit. It is also a way to play on consumer ignorance, since most computer users do not know how to set up OCR systems and hack Flash applets.
Really, a highly knowledgeable attacker will just take a snapshot of the memory of the process and pull the text right out of there. There is nothing they can do, short of mandatory TPM use, to prevent that sort of thing (and even then, it is likely that the TPM will fall victim to some kind of attack).
Palm trees and 8
How long will it take to crowd-source this into machine-readable format? This work of art is simply reminding us of the power of human effort over cold technology.
If you don't understand that then you have no artistic sense whatsoever.
Err - the 'Download' link seems to provide access to the PDF...
If you turn off JavaScript and load the page, you get a big Adobe ad for Flash, followed by a long bullet list of links to HTML pages of plain text. The plain text is all there, but the links to the pictures and video are not.
Well, at least you know what you like and aren't ashamed to admit it! :-p
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
There's a download button. It will download a PDF of the report. Now, putting that button outside of the flash file would probably be preferable, but it's there.
http://www.eg8forum.com/ebook/data/document.pdf
You could have included a link to the actual book in question...
http://www.eg8forum.com/ebook/
If what I just said sounded like a troll, it was probably just a failed attempt at humor.
It illustrates how corporatocracy is not just a problem in the United States.
Proverbs 21:19
While you guys were herpin' and derpin', I found a PDF. For a tech site, you guys are pretty fucking un-technical.
I can only smile a little. There was a time when if a journalist wish to use a quote from a speech or a report, he or she would copy it out by hand, on notepads or (as a later terrific innovation) using a typewriter. Now, all the bloggers complain "I can't sweep my mouse/trackpad cursor over it and just copy and paste it - what shall I do, what shall I do!"
-- Perhaps I see less than some, but more than many.
Apparently they went with "Fluidbook", which appears to be a French clone of Scribd, only uglier and even more pointless. As we all know, the best way to read text on screen is by using your mouse to manipulate a 3D rendering of a book... Just like the best interface for an audio player application is a painstakingly bitmap-rendered and non-resizable facsimile of a 1970s stereo.
At least they didn't disable the PDF download button, though that is a pitiful consolation.
Whats up with that 3d mode? WTF? Is this how they envision the future of internet? Prity but completely useless?
BAIN http://www.devslashzero.com
Javascript :
if(isMobile()){
window.location='data/document.pdf';
}
(
How about you clicky the button that says download in PDF?
For those who don't want to use Flash, a PDF copy can be obtained here:
http://www.eg8forum.com/ebook/data/document.pdf
No idea why that's not linked from http://www.eg8forum.com/en/.
There are Flash decompilers out there. They will either expose the text directly, or reveal any background HTTP requests that Flash makes to load the content.
Regardless, this is a damnably bone-headed move.
Although this does not address the fundamental problem of restricting full access to the information, products such as Abbyy Fine Reader (http://www.dcainfo.com) provide the ability to use OCR to gain access to the text.
Llooking at the page's soure code it should work just fine on a mobile web browser:
if(isMobile()){
window.location='data/document.pdf';
}
And with that, you can also form the URI for the pdf itself so you can read it on your ebook reader or whatever you want:
http://www.eg8forum.com/ebook/data/document.pdf
Seriously editors, did you even try to click around their site? Also who said you need any sort of plugin at all?
Even more to the point, who the hell wants to read this atrocity? It's like 90% pictures.
$ wget http://www.eg8forum.com/ebook/data/document.pdf?
--2011-06-13 12:15:12-- http://www.eg8forum.com/ebook/data/document.pdf?
Resolving www.eg8forum.com (www.eg8forum.com)... 4.27.18.126, 8.12.192.126, 209.84.14.126
Connecting to www.eg8forum.com (www.eg8forum.com)|4.27.18.126|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 22279675 (21M) [application/pdf]
Saving to: `document.pdf'
2011-06-13 12:15:16 (6.08 MB/s) - `document.pdf' saved [22279675/22279675]
Whats wrong with you lot? You can download a PDF version and its OCR'd already. I have the plaintext version of this 'ebook' already in my text editor.
Whats the harm in yelling 'Computer, end program!'? You could be living in Star Trek! Go on.. give it a try.
I remember when Slashdot posters would read an article, think about it, and post their own submission. This posting (and a majority on /. these days) merely copy and pasted the first few paragraphs of the article. That plagiarism, as it says "(user) said...". Hell, how do we know it isn't a bot grabbing content at this point? I see CmdrTaco approved it.. c'mon Rob..
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
After flipping few pages the flash plugin in chrome (mac) stopped responding and ate 100% of cpu.
If that is the future, no thanks.
Apple Preview, and Document Viewed 2.32.0 for Gnome have no problem with copy and paste from the PDF document.
Kosh: "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side, the Truth."
Here is the dastardly flash file in question. Pretty straightforward? Rather nice, actually? Scrolling and enlarging is functional and intuitive? My machine is ancient, yet it handled things quite well. Naturally, it won't cross the walled garden of Apple, but I suppose we all pay our little prices for our little vices.
If you are using NoScript, you get a list of HTML files, and no pictures.
Here is the PDF file. You can perform a copy and paste with no trouble? And if you have an impairment that prevents you from reading it, the file is accessible to your text-to-speech software.
The actual text of the files in question seems rather bland, really? There's nothing earth-shattering or unexpected, since the real meat & potatoes of each presentation was verbal, not written.
This post seems much ado about nothing.
[End Of Line]
It's dumb but you could retype this in a few hours.
You could probably set up something to screen capture and OCR it as well.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
"so people could link to it?"
You are linking to it.
"people could comment on it?"
We're commenting on it right now. If I cared, I would write an article on it on my website.
"As a user all you get to do is to read it"
If you really need to copy and paste for some reason you can download the pdf. Really, what's the problem? It's too hard to steal?
So, grab the page images and run them through a character recognition package, correct mistakes in the conversion, then post the results on the net.
Wow, just tried the 3D format. Almost blew my mind away.
Try reading the National Electrical Code online. First, start at the NFPA site. Then, spend a few fun minutes trying to find the link to the NEC. Then register. Then, if you're lucky, you can use "RealRead" to view the Code. As the NFPA puts it, This document is designed to be viewed online: there are no "print", "save", "cut and paste", or "search" options.
Screen shot each page, OCR, post. Problem solved. This isn't content protection, is just being jerks.
I found the fact that I had to visit the WSJ blog to get a link to the ebook (or the EG8 site itself) more annoying than the actual subject matter :\
As a user all you get to do is to read it, in exactly the way the authors want you to. It looks good, but you can't do anything with it, except what the authors tell you to do. Metaphor anyone?
Stop trying to enforce your vision of document distribution on everyone else. You are not the only person who matters, and being an arogent ass won't make people think they need to pander to your insane demands.
Don't like flash: Download the PDF. Took me under ten seconds to see how. Don't know how? Search the internet for the document. Too dumb to do that? Learn.
You can comment on things anywhere you want: Write a blog post. Share on Facebook/Twitter/Whatever. As a person who has no interest in wading through a bunch of uninformed drivel about the gold standard, Obama's birth certificate, or multinational corporations conspiring to give American workers butt cancer, I prefer that the comment system is somewhere far removed from the actual information, so I don't have to read it. If having a discussion on a topic isn't important enough for you to go to a reasonable venue, maybe you shouldn't expect the page creators to spend time building a custom system just for you.
It amazes me how the whole computing community, including computer scientists and programmers, are being kept hostage by a small group of people who enforce their rules upon them (not only the Microsofts, Apples and Adobes of this world, but also standardization committees such as W3C).
Just wow.
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Just a thought, but "5 years ago" sounds about right, when has the government done anything cutting edge w technology. I object to them not using HTML text vs a flash based format, or least providing the former, but what did you expect? AJAX w/ jQuery? Also, PDF is available and there are converters for pdf to text that'll take care of the OP issue, overkill on my part to get a copy though.
I laughed at the "download" icon. All the greatest tech minds and what do they use for the download icon? A floppy disk.
Slap an OCR on the output and it's yours....
As dreemernj said earlier, there is a PDF which for many of us is one-click away from plaintext.
The criticisms about interactively editable, in a wiki, etc. etc. still stand.
cheers...ank
Well, obviously they wanted to publish it as a book. That's how most stuff has been and is published. You know, like a newspaper, the the printed kind. What's wrong with that? It's still "interactive", i.e., you can read it. I guess that's what the reader is expected to do, read the stuff. Okay, that bad news is that it's in Flash format. I agree, that's a no for me, too. Too difficult to read.
As others must have already pointed out, there's a PDF download button right on the page. And I can copy and paste text from that PDF.
Granted, this is not the way I like to read documents and it's totally superfluous, but from a design standpoint it's kind of cool. It's actually easier to read through the book in this than it would be in Acrobat. But I realize some people are Luddites when it comes to how information is presented.
What's eG8?
Your ideas intrigue me (and I was considering subscribing to your newsletter), so I just tried it on a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, running Android 3.1 with the stock browser and Adobe Flash Player 10.3.
Predictably, the Flash page-turner doesn't show up (even with plugins set to "Always On"). I get a white screen with a list of links to pages. When I click a link, it sends me a 21.25MB PDF of the report.
But I've said before that I think Flash on Android is useless, and people got all mad and said I was in Apple's pocket. I still challenge anyone to show me something useful they can do with the Flash Player installed on an Android device that they couldn't have done already.
Breakfast served all day!
Wow, an editor who can't read. Way to go Wallstreet Journal.
Parminder Bahra @ LinkdIn
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/parminder-bahra/6/580/920
It's the authors' and creators' right to create and present their work any way they want, no matter how unreadable or unusable that may be. They created it, not pbahra, the OP. It is their right to make it as difficult to view, search, and read as they want. It's my right (and pbhara's) to ignore it when it's difficult to view, read and/or search. If the authors don't like being ignored, they simply have to change how they present their work.
This also applies to rock stars who have contracts with recording studios that apply onerous DRM restrictions. It's their right to sign those exploitative recording contracts, and it's my right to ignore the bands and performers, even if they are rock stars.
In the wall of logos at the back of the book, even though the EFF was in attendance, they were left out.
Boredom is bliss.
For all their guff on http://www.eg8forum.com/en/accessibility/ about making it accessible, you still have to download the PDF via the Flash "app".
It all looks like the sort of shiny UI that is necessary when your key customers are heads of state and the like - frequently clueless about and impatient with technology.
Anyone actually read it? It's still downloading
Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
Wait, so the top executives from technology companies around the world gather to discuss important policy items they'd like to see discussed by the G8 regarding the internet - a noteworthy story by itself - and instead of discussing the content of the story we're complaining about the format they released it in???
Or you could just stop being a whiny little weasel and click on the "download PDF" link and download the Searchable, quotable document that looks just like the pretty picture on the screen.
Big evil gov't and the evil capitalist monster the group represents isn't out to get you it turns out.
OK, did the author of the post see the little floppy icon at the top of the page?
It stands for "save to PDF" after you do you can export to plain text.
What's the problem?
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
"Being Flash, you can't even cut and paste what is in the file."
Showing your anti-Flash bias there. If the developers wanted the text to be selectable (and thus cut & pastable) they could have. "Being Flash" does not inherently make text uncopyable. The options are all