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First Challenge To US Domain Seizures Filed

Posted by Soulskill on from the amicus-briefs-at-dawn dept.

An anonymous reader writes "You may recall that the US government, mainly through Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement division (ICE) has been seizing domain names over the past year, based on bad evidence, even leading to the 'accidental' seizure of 84,000 sites. While it has taken some time, the first challenge has been filed to the domain seizures, by the company Puerto 80, who runs Rojadirecta, a Spanish internet forum that was seized because users linked to streaming sporting events. Rojadirecta was declared perfectly legal (twice!) in Spain, but the challenge obviously focuses on US law, and how the seizure was improper and did not meet the qualifications for a seizure, how the seizure violates the First Amendment by being improper prior restraint on protected speech, and how Rojadirecta is not guilty of criminal copyright infringement. This could represent a very important case in determining the government's legal right to simply seize domain names."

23 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Toss up by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 4

    Yes, justice is impartial.

    --

    I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

  2. Dear U.S.A. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Stop trying to fucking police the whole godamn planet on all levels.

    Besides entertainment and some software development, you are now irrelevant.

    Signed, everyone.

    1. Re:Dear U.S.A. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dear, everyone:

      We're very sorry. Our current government doesn't represent us. They just do whatever the hell they want, without regard for anything or anyone who didn't contribute massively to their campaigns - especially not our constitution. We can't stop them without a revolution.

      Signed, the U.S.A.

    2. Re:Dear U.S.A. by jvillain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Amen. What is this "The government just does what they want non-sense. Stop voting for the same two failed parties. Start demonstrating on the lawn of the assemblies. Help to form a new party and fund it, run for office ...

      Or do you mean when you do nothing they keep doing what ever they want?

    3. Re:Dear U.S.A. by vegiVamp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dear U.S.A.,

      You've been claiming this during the previous 8 years of Bush administration, too; which was supposedly from the opposing party. Frankly, we don't see the difference, but that's probably a cultural thing.

      Stop making excuses and get that damn revolution started already, before we are forced to come over and, how do you guys call it, spread some democracy.

      Signed, everyone.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
  3. An apology to the international community by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have to apologize to the international community. When you started clamoring for international control of the domain system, my summary reaction was, "Whiners. Do you seriously not trust the United States to handle DNS in a fair manner? We do not mess with free speech without due process. Would you really trust international oversight more?"

    Now I see that the US cannot in fact be trusted to fairly manage the domain system. You were right. I was wrong. I'm sorry.

    1. Re:An apology to the international community by Toonol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now I see that the US cannot in fact be trusted to fairly manage the domain system. You were right. I was wrong. I'm sorry.

      I'm similarly disappointed in the US... but I'm still not sure what nation or organization would be BETTER. UN? EU? Industry organizations? Those would all be even worse.

      Heck, I'd rather give it to anonymous to handle.

    2. Re:An apology to the international community by Fyzzler · · Score: 2

      I sadly have to agree with this post. I too was wrong. DNS needs to be removed from US control.

      --
      I have one question. If the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture is not in charge of Gundam, then who is?
    3. Re:An apology to the international community by Vegemeister · · Score: 2

      No. Technical solutions are always superior to legal solutions. The solution is weighted web-of-trust DNS, with a great deal of caching.

    4. Re:An apology to the international community by JustNiz · · Score: 2

      >> hand the system over to a bunch of nations that don't believe in free speech.

      As a Brit now living in the US, I was surprised by the large difference between the EU and the US in what is considered "allowable speech". People are MUCH more restricted in the US than in the EU both by police and worse, societal norms as a whole. Also I was surprised by how US police act like thugs and bullies even as a first response. EU cops wouldn't ever do that.
      For example look what happened at your Lincoln Memorial (more than once apparently):
      http://www.openculture.com/2011/05/dont_dance_at_the_lincoln_memorial.html

      When you Americans say you live in the "The Land of the Free" do you REALLY believe it? If so, you need to get out and see the world and get a reality check for yourselves.

      I'm not saying the EU is perfect, we have our own issues, however in this respect its better.
      At least we can peacefully protest and say what we want without fear that our cops would or could kick our heads in then get away with it.

    5. Re:An apology to the international community by JustNiz · · Score: 2

      Read your own citation. A later court trial found the police guilty of wrongful arrest, assault and criminal damage.

      Even though US cops apparently often use brutal tactics as a first option, you NEVER see the police in the US getting hauled into court and found guilty of assault.

  4. Re:Toss up by EdIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Really?

    It's one way. Give the domains back. The Spanish courts have declared them legal.

    How is the Homeland Security Department funded so well in these trying times that they can afford to seize domains and fight legal battles for IP corporations in fucking Spain?

    That's the fundamentals here folks. This the US government acting unilaterally without jurisdiction and a complete disregard for the judicial processes, laws, and sovereignty of foreign nations.

    Let that sink in.

    Then afterwards the rest of the world can get their heads out of their collective asses and take away domain name administration from the US because we clearly do not deserve the ability to do so, and have proven quite remarkably, that we don't have the ethics to do it either.

  5. R.I.P by ForexCoder · · Score: 2

    Fourth, Fifth and Six Amendments

    12/19/1791 - 1/1/2011

    . Requiescat in pace

  6. This is why by vga_init · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is why we don't to have the US in control of the DNS master servers on the Internet. It's high time that we architect a new, global, and decentralized domain name service network that thwarts tampering by any government or institution.

    1. Re:This is why by trampel · · Score: 2

      I buy the "decentralized" part, but regarding the non-US part: rojadirecta.com has been registered with godaddy.com (a US company for all that I know) since 2005. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that they could have used a non-US registrar, and further assume that that would have made it more difficult to seize the domain.

  7. Re:Toss up by Toonol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Has anyone successfully fought the government in a legal battle and won?

    Is that a serious question?

    The short answer is "Yes." The long answer is "Yes, often, and read some history."

  8. Re:Toss up by mistiry · · Score: 2

    Has anyone successfully fought the government in a legal battle and won?

    How many times has the Supreme Court ruled 'XYZ Law' as 'Unconstitutional'? Would you not consider that someone successfully challenging the government in a legal battle?

    Government makes law. Citizen challenges law. Law is overturned. Seems like a WIN to me...

  9. Re:Toss up by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This the US government acting unilaterally without jurisdiction and a complete disregard for the judicial processes, laws, and sovereignty of foreign nations.

    And therefore it can't happen? Exhibit 1, history.

    The US has placed half the world on their copyright watch list. And I don't mean rag tag countries like Russia or China but highly developed western countries like Canada and large parts of Europe. They want global IP law and they want to write it. Fits quite nicely with their overall agenda as world police, too. So I wouldn't be surprised if they just kept it, so that keeping a domain name means you have to stay inside both local law and US law. They have the audacity to do it.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  10. Re:Toss up by SaroDarksbane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How many times has the Supreme Court ruled 'XYZ Law' as 'Unconstitutional'?

    Not nearly enough.

    Government: "Hey, you know that section of the constitution that allows us to break down trade barriers and protectionism between the states? Well, we'd like to interpret it in such a manner that gives us the power to tell any citizen in the country to do anything we want, as long as we make vague assurances that it might, in some way, affect some kind of commerce somewhere."
    Court: "Sounds good to me!"

  11. Dear World by countertrolling · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Our lawyers, guns, and money make anything you say or try to do irrelevant... yes, to this day

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  12. Re:Toss up by mirix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At this point they basically have earth minus the US on the copyright watch list. I'm sure the US would be on the list if it wasn't where they are from, also.

    Of the 40 countries listed in the report, the IIPA recommends that 13 be placed on USTR’s “Priority Watch” List in 2011: These include Argentina, Canada, Chile, China, India, Indonesia, Russia, and Thailand, all carried over from last year, with the additions of Costa Rica, the Philippines, Spain, Ukraine, and Vietnam. The other 27 countries are recommended for the 2011 “Watch” list.

    An AC posted this at the time of that story, I thought it was spot on:

    so after a few minutes on google it seems that they've put about half (3,225 million) of the world population (6,775 million) on their must watch list. I'm not going to look for the population of the other 27 countries but it wouldn't surprise me if it totals 6,470 million people which is the worlds population minus the USA population.

    Pretty much.

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
  13. Re:The government really has no choice. by JustNiz · · Score: 2

    Actually the US is the worlds largest manufacturer and exporter of weapons but let's save that for another post.

    It seems to me that when a government itself corrupts own legal system, especially just to further protect already rich mega corporations, you have already lost your country.

  14. Re:Toss up by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

    I wonder why on Earth an agency founded in the aftermath of 9/11, to protect gainst terrorist threats to the United States is involved in thus kind of thing? May as well have the fucking coast guard policing patent infringements!

    It happened because the agency in question isn't really an agency in the older sense. It's just an umbrella organization to foster communications within and among a bunch of older agencies.

    Basically, we were surprised by 9/11. Therefore we added an extra layer of bureaucracy to fix the problem.

    Because we all know that any problem can be solved if we have more bureaucrats in the loop.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"