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US Pressing Its Crackdown Against Leaks
NotSanguine writes with this quote from a NY Times article:
"The Justice Department shows no sign of rethinking its campaign to punish unauthorized disclosures to the news media, with five criminal cases so far under President Obama, compared with three under all previous presidents combined. This week, a grand jury in Virginia heard testimony in a continuing investigation of WikiLeaks, the antisecrecy group, a rare effort to prosecute those who publish secrets, rather than those who leak them. The string of cases reflects a broad belief across two administrations and in both parties in Congress that leaks have gotten out of hand, endangering intelligence agents and exposing American spying methods."
Smas imperialism through international socialist revolution! Reforge the Fourth International!
We will only know the true extent of bloody U.S. imperialism's crimes when the workers take power and finally bring the Pentagon mass-murderers, the CIA assassins, and their Wall Street patrons to justice.
UNITE with the Campaign for a Free Internet because today, our future begins with tomorrow!
Is paid for by the public, so is owned by the public. ( well so is classified, but there is a difference )
The government works for US, remember? Or at least that is how its supposed to work.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
LOL, is this the "American Freedom" I always heard so much about as a youth growing up in Eastern Europe just after the fall of Communism?
"Please Log In"
The story itself is classified and you must verify your credentials with the New York Times to view it.
That's pretty damn top secret.
"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency" - President Barack Obama
The Justice Department shows no sign of rethinking its campaign to punish unauthorized disclosures to the news media,
I can't read the article as it seems to require some sort of login but this case isn't about punishing unauthorized disclosures TO the news media. It's about punishing unauthorized reporting of information BY the news media. Unless you think that Wikileaks isn't a medium for news, which it clearly is. Possibly the scariest element of this campaign is attempts to establish some news media as in some sense official and free and others as not.
"endangering intelligence agents and exposing American spying methods."
I would like someone to explain to me how the Thomas Drake case involved anything remotely resembling the endangerment of intelligence agents. Furthermore, the domestic spying he exposed was illegal. Exposing that is not a crime, and nobody should be 'worried' about 'exposing' crimes. Furthermore, he did not release any classified information, nor was he even charged with doing so.
I do not understand how the Kim case, has no relationship whatsoever to intelligence agents, nor spying. It is about educated guessing about North Korea's weapons testing. One time, in a single telephone conversation, with a reporter. Where is the 'intelligence agent' here? Where is the 'spying methods'?
The Manning case has almost nothing to do with spying methods, as far as we know. Otherwise, they probably would have charged him under 18 USC 798 - they didn't. They charged him with 34 other things. 3 of those charges relate to the Icleandic banking scandal - i do not understand how that has anything to do with spying methods nor with intelligence agents. Is every state department employee now an 'intelligence agent'?
The Leibowitz case - we have no idea what the details of the case are. Even the judge doesn't know the details of the case. Leibowitz plead out because they scared him. What little we know is that he found out the FBI was engaged in illegal activity related to signals intelligence work. Two guesses as to what that is.
I will admit, the Sterling case is about intelligence agents and spying methods. It is about how the CIA accidentally screwed up and gave Iran accurate nuclear weapons information instead of inaccurate information. Let me just ask you - do you think the public is better off knowing that, or not?
The Wikileaks case - well, please let me know when there is concrete evidence that any intelligence agents have been harmed by wikileaks. Some ambassadors have been harmed - then again, ambassadors are quite often simply the biggest campaign donors to the president. That's how ambassadorships work. If those people are 'intelligence agents', well, I have to wonder about the wisdom of making campaign donors into intelligence agents. Shouldn't we be picking professionals instead?
I also haven't seen anything yet about any wikileaks cables that reveal spying information. Gun camera footage is all over youtube, should all of those youtube users now be charged under the Espionage act too?
"Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity." - Lord Acton. This is from the same guy that said, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
Government needs to be accountable.
I voted for this lying sack of shit.
That won't happen again.
If Putin gave such an order it was illegal, exposing a crime is not call for a death sentence. If Putin did not give such an order then the leak is merely slander and again, not worth of a death sentence.
Back in your cave, ugly troll, you shall have no tree fiddy here!!!
The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt. Those who want corruption want it to stay that way. How could they be free to have corruption if they don't have secrecy?
1) the US does whatever the hell it wants. it does not ask permission and it seeks out those who disagree for intent of harm.
2) this is not a disney movie, this life we all lead. the line between good and bad guys is often non-existent. stop thinking in binary fashion. the US isn't good and it isn't evil, its JUST ANOTHER COUNTRY run by rich white men who like to keep the power base the way it is (and pretty much has been).
3) we spy. they spy. everyone spies. not only that, but countries do not respect their own people and will spy on them. kids, learn this. be watchful of EVERYTHING you say or write or photo. this is now universal since all countries have latched onto this 'we control your life, entirely' mentality.
4) power corrupts and the more you give the government, the more they'll screw you over (now or later) with it. no such thing as 'temporary powers'. don't ever fall for THAT line again, please.
5) cops, judges, politicians, lawyers; those in authority are there because they are mentally unbalanced and have this need for control. the higher the position, the more corruptable the job is and the more 'attractive' it is to such sick people. beware of those in authority and realize WHY they seeked out those kinds of jobs. avoid dealing or interacting with these people in life, they are not your friends and not worth your friendship. they'll stab you at first chance if it suits them.
none of this is taught in schools (on purpose). we intentionally lie to our kids when we raise them. then, about teen age, they see the lies we have been telling them. problem is, we have already raised generations of people on pure lies who believe in this 'two party system' and that if you have done nothing wrong, (...). we have a lot of really dumb cattle walking around as human beings with a totally false idea of how the world really works.
start with truth about what our world is like. you can't fix things if you don't even see them for how they really are.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
It's strange how on ./ we get a description of WikiLeaks in the summary, helpful for those who may have been living under a rock for the past few years, and yet there were dozens of articles about "SCO", whatever the fuck that is, without any description at all.
Is there anything more obvious -- as the world's oil supplies rapidly diminish -- than the fact that our prime objective is to remove Gaddafi and install a regime that is a far more reliable servant to Western oil interests, and that protecting civilians was the justifying pretext for this war, not the purpose?
Conflict in Libya: U.S. oil companies sit on sidelines as Gaddafi maintains hold
In late February 2008, Mulva was “summoned to Sirte for a half-hour ‘browbeating’” from Gaddafi, according to a U.S. State Department cable made available by WikiLeaks. Gaddafi “threatened to dramatically reduce Libya’s oil production and/or expel ... U.S. oil and gas companies,” the cable said.
Wikileaks was the source for these articles. If all cables get leaked, it is difficult for US to pursue its interests.
And more: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would Stay Cheap
"Transparency will be my touchstone"
ROFL
People in the government who leak unauthorized information are people who have willfully disobeyed rules and procedures and display their own sense of self importance. This is not something to be encouraged, but something that must be prosecuted and punished because all the latest news of leakers has given the sense that this is somehow ok.
I think we must make them pay and pay hard.
So, if you uncovered classified documents proving Obama and Boehner were in cahoots running an underground pedophile ring staged out of the Lincoln Bedroom, you would just keep quiet?
Similar to the upcoming US election results
Then the old jokes start in strange new ways: :)
We have eedom of press, but not freedom after publication. A source, like an asset faces the Espionage Act or PATRIOT Act and its game over.
Expect to see the word "journalist" been used much less due to the little bit of legal cover it still provides.
Whistleblower protection "under seal" seems to be gone too now
You can talk about computers, sport, politicians, celebrities, just dont follow the money, source code, drugs or hint at lawyer written statements about next gen tombstone technology.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Strawman much?
GM
This is bi-partisan because grabbing more power for the executive branch is bi-partisan. The book "Takeover" by Charlie Savage (also of the NYT) details much about how the Bush 2 administration worked to increase executive power, but also how it has been a tradition for a century before that - and persecution of whistleblowers is an important part of it.
Two stories from "Takeover" stuck with me.
One was the story of an ethics advisor for the Justice Dept, Jesslyn Radack. When John Walker Lindh, the "American Taliban", was charged with many counts that led to 20 years in jail, based almost entirely on his own statement given while duct-taped to a board, naked and blindfolded with an untreated bullet wound in his leg, Atty. Gen. Ashcroft stated publicly that while the statement was given without a lawyer present, that was fine since he did not have a lawyer at the time. Alas, Ms. Radack had already notified the FBI that Lindh's father had retained council for him and notified Justice, and that they should not interrogate him - they just did, anyway. And Radack had kept the E-mails, then sent them to a reporter. It was not in her mind at the time that this was "whistleblowing" she felt she was correcting erroneous statements; releasing the information was no crime at all, since it was unclassified. For this, she found herself:
* Fired, from the private law firm she worked for (they consulted to Justice)
* Subjected to a year-long criminal investigation, though no charges were ever filed, since she had committed no crime
* Referred to for "discipline" by the bar associations in all the states she was licensed to practice in, via a secret report that she was not allowed to see
* Placed on the "selectee" version of the no-fly list - meaning she was *always* "randomly selected" for full off-with-the-underwear search for every single flight.
Talk about a chilling effect. Thou Shalt Not Embarrass The Justice Department, even with the simple truth that it got excited and eager for a headline and made a mistake.
Just so that this isn't seen as partisan, the other story is about a democrat: Harry Truman. (Who also felt the whole Korean War(!) was strictly an executive branch decision, no congressional authorization needed ... take THAT, Libya protestors!) A major avoidance of government transparency is enabled by the "state secrets" privilege, in which the government can tell a court, "dismiss this lawsuit; to argue it, we'd have to reveal State Secrets". It's been used to shut down every lawsuit about torture and unlawful detention that came after 9/11. But there's no such privilege in the Constitution. It comes from a Supreme Court decision, "US vs. Reynolds", where the survivors of 3 civilian scientists killed in a B-29 bomber crash in Georgia, 1948, while doing missile research. The government argued that the judge had to dismiss the suit without even seeing the crash report himself, lest "secret electronics" be revealed, and it was upheld - then used about 60 times since. In 2000, the daughter of one of the victims found the crash report, declassified, on the Internet. It contained NOTHING about secret electronics - it contained proof that there had been negligent maintenance of the bomber, and negligent lack of training for the civilians on how to escape the aircraft. The government had used the claim to avoid embarrassment, not to mention losing a lawsuit.
As Charlie Savage summed it up, "The central case on which the State Secrets Privilege rests, then, was a fraud. The Truman administration had lied to the courts and gotten away with it."
So that's why you need whistleblowers. And that's why governments persecute them as ruthlessly as possible; it's about executive power, the effort to restore America to the status of having a King who is above the law - partly by exempting the executive from laws that the rest of us must obey, partly by ensuring that most of their lawbreaking is never revealed in the first place, so they don't have to fight for that exemption very often.
In my opinion Wikileaks is a front for the CIA / Mossad. Wikileaks, the made for the media leaks, complete with pre-release exclusives with the New York Times and other US media outlets. If this would have been a real leaks, heads would roll in this country, not benefit the US. If these were real leaks, Assange and his organization would have been killed and never heard about in the media. Assange denies 911 to be an inside job, which is a litmus test of credibility of and by itself, and he props up the myth of Al Qaeda being an international highly organized terror organization making the entire world unsafe. Wikileaks is a sophisticated counter-intelligence (COINTELPRO) operation, meant to dispense only part of the true story to the public and therefore mislead it and keep from ever knowing the full truth. If Assange was really worried about the United States doing something to him, one of the last countries he would want to be in other than this one is the United Kingdom. What leaks have hurt or alley Israel? I have to give it to the CIA, this is one of there greatest moments. Wikileaks is responsible for the Arab Spring uprising in Tunisia, which in turn lead to the war in Libya, maintaining business as usual for the industrial military complex, save people with bombs and guns, which is good for Western economies. Branley Manning was un-liked in the military, gay, and the perfect scapegoat to blame all this on. How is one private suppose to get a hold of so much data in the military that does not pertain to is job, and for periods decades past. Isn't the military data compartmentalized to only see what you need access to, Mandatory Access Controls?
Be prepared for false flag cyber attack blamed on Anonymous that somehow in-conveniences civilians in the entire country ( credit card processing for example ). As a excuse to pass more draconian laws limiting on-line freedom and going after real whistle blowers (9/11).
The transparency initiative of President Obama was a campaign lie. I remember him preaching the importance of transparency in government and having an open and accessible government. If the Obama Administration seeks to criminalize attempts to hold Obama to his campaign promise, then he simply pandered to the voting public. For the record, I am neither Democrat nor Republican, both are misguided and self-serving parties.
If only the administration put half the effort into punishing various people who broke US laws on surrveilance and torture that they're putting into punishing the people who let the American people find out about it.
"A major avoidance of government transparency is enabled by the "state secrets" privilege, in which the government can tell a court, 'dismiss this lawsuit; to argue it, we'd have to reveal State Secrets'. "
However, just about a month or so ago, a Federal judge ruled that the government cannot do that. They can take measures to ensure that the public cannot see those 'secrets' in the course of a trial, but the government cannot withhold that information from the judge or jury.
Unfortunately, I do not have a citation for that decision. Maybe some person out there who is reading this has one.'
That's not a "straw man" argument. It's a valid question. A straw man argument presents a situation that appears to, but does not actually, bear on the subject at hand, then shoots it down. This person's question was perfectly relevant, valid, and directly bearing on the subject at hand. Therefore it is not a "straw man".
Bullshit.
When people in government or other position of power commit crimes, then cover these crimes up (or attempt to) under a guise of "national security", then the people who subsequently "leak unauthorized information" are patriots, true to the nature of the founding of this country and true to the PEOPLE of this nation. It must be encouraged, not prosecuted nor punished.
Contributing to the cover up invites nothing but corruption and tyranny.
"I think we must make them pay and pay hard."
No, you don't "think", you are a good little fascist who does anything BUT think.
People who DO think understand that the government must be accountable, because if it
is not, things get ugly quickly.
Study some history, little fascist, and learn about the consequences of governments which
suppress the truth from their citizens.
why is no one mentioning that the drake case is already over?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/10/us/10leak.html?_r=1
and that he was vindicated?
I don't spy. Do you spy? As far as I am aware, any common man that engages in the act of spying is a stalker and could be sued for harrassment (and rightfully so). The act of spying implies a threat of coercion on some level, does it not?
You seem to be confused; neither you nor I are part of the group that does the spying. We didn't plan it, we aren't the ones executing the plan, and we lose rather than benefit from the spying business. "We" have nothing to do with it, except that our money is being taken, by force, in order to fund the racket.
"All power tends to corrupt. Absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely." Acton, of course, didn't know about psychopaths and malignant narcissists. Neither class is "mentally weak and easily corruptible"; both seek power to use it for their own, corrupt ends. Acton, however, was referring to people who started out with good intentions. Interestingly, the Palin emails seem to suggest that she is one of those - initially she meant well but now seems to be on a full-blown narcissist power trip.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
That might make sense, but should be balanced by also punishing those who over-classify. Almost all classified information that we hear about getting leaked, turned out to look like it shouldn't have been classified in the first place. So why are otherwise-well-meaning people being put into positions where they're even tempted to break their oaths? The next time I hear about something getting leaked, in addition to saying "that guy broke his promise and can no longer be trusted" I want to also be able to say "he did harm to his country." Because right now the oathbreaker condemnation is always followed up with, "but at least he helped his country," or "Why the fuck didn't the Pentagon release that video themselves before the leak?"
If we didn't have a situation where every little thing was gratuitously classified, we'd sure have a lot fewer leakers, and those leakers would be the bad guys. Who doesn't want to catch the bad guys, instead of giving them a field of good guys to hide in and confuse the issue?
That was exciting to hear and I rushed to Google. I tried [ "state secrets privilege" ruling against ] as my search phrase.
Got nuthin' but the recent (May 2011) ruling that was still in favour of the SSP - but "narrowed" the grounds for using it. The one before that was the 9th circuit, Sept 2010, that the EFF described as
"Unfortunately, abdicating its responsibility is just what the Court did. It ordered summary dismissal of the complaint without allowing any discovery, or presentation of the public evidence or even a plan by the plaintiffs to litigate the case while respecting the necessary secrecy, something that has been regularly done in cases involving national security. "
so, I believe you're mis-remembering. Alas.
There are plenty of secretive (and thus corrupt) countries you can go to, scumbag. Get out of this one.
Great Intellect...
I'll tell you what's out of hand... the fu**ing GOVERNMENT is out of hand. And it can't handle the truth! You're out of hand! And YOU'RE out of hand!
If a person posts a so-called secret just how can they know the material is authentic and truly a national secret? After all, many times sources think they are handing you big deal types of information when in fact they are not. Since there is no verify the secrets phone number it seems that it is very much like the commercial truck driver not knowing what is in every box in the back of his truck. He only becomes guilty if he actually knows he carries illegal cargo. Mr. Manning is correct. It is a reporters job to report and spy type agencies jobs to keep information secret. The reporter carries no guilt.
I still wish you had linked to those stories.
But you are correct, my memory was not serving me well. What I was unknowing referring to was the Drake Case, in which the government's bungled attempts to keep information secret nevertheless would have served to bias the jury against the defendant.
Somehow, I got that confused with another case in which the judge told the government (pre-trial) that they could use the established secrecy procedures to withhold confidential information from the public, but not from the judge and jury. However, the latter case was merely a pre-trial decision by the judge, I don't think it has the force of an actual trial decision. But I could be wrong. I still haven't found that story to check.
Sadly, the Drake case was settled on a misdemeanor charge, leaving the government open to try its redaction BS on the next hapless victim. We'll have to see how it turns out in the long run.
there's money interests:
...Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran.
What do these seven countries have in common? In the context of banking, one that sticks out is that none of them is listed among the 56 member banks of the Bank for International Settlements (BIS). That evidently puts them outside the long regulatory arm of the central bankers' central bank in Switzerland.
The most renegade of the lot could be Libya and Iraq, the two that have actually been attacked. Kenneth Schortgen Jr, writing on Examiner.com, noted that "[s]ix months before the US moved into Iraq to take down Saddam Hussein, the oil nation had made the move to accept euros instead of dollars for oil, and this became a threat to the global dominance of the dollar as the reserve currency, and its dominion as the petrodollar."
According to a Russian article titled "Bombing of Libya - Punishment for Ghaddafi for His Attempt to Refuse US Dollar", Gaddafi made a similarly bold move: he initiated a movement to refuse the dollar and the euro, and called on Arab and African nations to use a new currency instead, the gold dinar. Gaddafi suggested establishing a united African continent, with its 200 million people using this single currency.
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html
There's MUCH more in that article... an absolute must-read!
"The Justice Department shows no sign of rethinking its campaign to punish unauthorized disclosures to the news media, with five criminal cases so far under President Obama, compared with three under all previous presidents combined."
I thought BusHitler was the fascist not Obama (PBUH)! Could this story be some kind of Rovian conspiracy?
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
"For the most part, those in authority in the US are doing a fine job. Look at other, truly repressive regimes in North Africa and the Middle East, and the atrocities they are daily committing against their citizens. That doesn't happen here nearly as often, or to nearly as great a degree." - by deblau (68023) on Saturday June 18, @12:04PM (#36485616)
Gotti, the "teflon don", said (not direct quote, but idea's here):
"The way we ran things, there were rules, parameters. They think that putting me away's going to make things better? One day in the future, they're going to miss John Gotti"
Crime DID get worse after he was put away, as he pretty much predicted too.
Thus - Your points' made by a criminal also, no less.
Those criminals DID have some "good sides" though (they gave unions power, the power of fear & muscle - which they have LITTLE of now, after Ronald Reagan (witness his doing to the airtraffic controllers' union)).
Now, you're allegedly an attorney: Here's what MY attorney told me, verbatim:
"There is no 'law', get over it: There is only money, and power. Without the 1st commodity, you have none of the 2nd, and that's that"
---
"This quote reflects a really depressing world view and a lack of perspective." - by deblau (68023) on Saturday June 18, @12:04PM (#36485616)
Ah, but WHO'S PERSPECTIVE, Sir... everything IS a matter of perception after all!
You're on the side of the very people that "run the machine", so to you? Things are JUST HOW YOU LIKE THEM!
Now - From what life's shown me in nearly 1/2 a century of existence? It is depressing, how bogus people in power are to keep the "status quo" going... public or world opinion be damned, because THE GREATEST FEAR OF THOSE IN POWER? Losing their power - period!
We ALL KNOW IT!
Still, it IS truth, and pretty much what my attorney told me.
It's just "how it is" & how it has always been.
Either you're running the show, or, on the 'team' that is... or you're a slave ala "most men lead lives of quiet desperation".
Southerners put it a diff. way, but the point's there too:
"Either you fish or you cut bait"
Me? Hell... lol, I am just trying to SURVIVE this damned game & maybe help out who I can, when I can, where I am able to - I only HOPE there is a God, & that he sees that MOST OF THE TIME, I am trying to do that myself (when life doesn't turn me into a "feral animal" in order to survive that is, & sometimes, it does).
I am sure I haven't said ANYTHING that anyone who's been living a while doesn't know so... ending it now!
APK
P.S.=> Yourself, and the person you replied to, TheGratefulNet, BOTH make good points, but again:
They're both judgements & statements based solely from where you're looking - like most are!
Again - A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE.
There's no clearcut "good" or "evil" @ times &, largely, it depends who's doing the judging of what is good vs. evil etc.
... apk
Here's the good old US of A, the supposed proponents of liberty, freedom, etc.
Here is wikileaks, exposer of lies, horrible truths, a bastion for whistle blowers to go to when the powers that be are overwhelming and not in the favor of justice.
Lo and behold, the US of A is exposed by wikileaks. Observe the reaction. Instead of the issues exposed being the scandal, it's the source of how the information surfaced; wikileaks.
Observe the reaction from the US of A. The founder of wikileads is hounded down to the corners of the Earth after being in a "sex scandal". How convenient. The issues exposed aren't looked at, instead they want to kill the messenger and the whistle blower.
This makes me suspect one thing. They have LOTS MORE SECRETS TO HIDE and are TERRIFIED we will find out WTF they are doing.
How this should have played out is this: They should have quietly looked into their security practices. They should have owned up to and dealt publicly with any issue exposed. They could have smiled and said "Truth is a double edged sword", patted wikileaks on the head and went about their business as if they had some class. Secretly, they could keep tabs on wikileaks, as it obviously is proving to be interesting.
This reaction though, from both sides of the isle screams of GUILT. It screams "We have more shit hid and holy cow if you find out about it, you will fucking kill us all, forget elections. We have to nail this shit down fast even if we are exposed in the process."
Take the Red Pill.
In the case of Japanese Internment and Korematsu (which held that the internment of Japanese during WWII was legal) per the USSC. The only problem was that years later, it was found that the GOVERNMENT had LIED to the judiciary about the disloyalty and possible threat the interned Japanese posed to the United States (for the record, there was never a SINGLE proven case of disloyalty among internees).
A more recent issue was the scapegoating of Wen Ho Lee, which was instigated by that great politico, Bill Richardson (who had to turn down the appointment to head commerce due to legal problems involving a grand jury). The government's case against Lee completely fell apart, and they were left with a single charge of mishandling classified information (serious), but not to the level that was stated by the government. When Mr. Lee was being sentenced, the federal judge who sentenced him had to apologize for the government's misconduct in this matter (sends a pretty strong message when a federal judge apologizes on the record in a court of law).
I guess one day, the lawful residents and citizens of this once great nation will realize they've lost all their rights.
What a shame...
"Look at other, truly repressive regimes in North Africa and the Middle East, and the atrocities they are daily committing against their citizens." - by deblau (68023) on Saturday June 18, @12:04PM (#36485616)
Yes, look at the Middle East - show us those "WMD's" now that IRAQ supposedly had, & they couldn't (that made us all ill, & look like ASSHOLES in front of the planet too - for what? MONEY?? POWER??? Yea, really cool that (not)), won't you?
Yes, we're doing such a "FINE JOB", sure...
Fine job of keeping the "Eisenhower Military Industrial Complex" running well & profiting, by the blood of others we LIED ABOUT (or rather, gov't. did)... & the "1%-ers" & their lackeys/cronies profiting is more like it.
(Those kinds, & the evil stock market, IMF & bankers, + ENRON types!)
Personally? I think that the planet is in the control of the BIGGEST CRIMINALS OF ALL TIME!
The ONLY defense you & yours may have to be blunt about it, is this (per my John Gotti statement in another post here unders yours also):
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2249530&cid=36487882
Now - THE ONLY REASONS that We don't bother revolt against that, or our "inalienable rights" (bullshit, the Patriot Act & "hate speech" ARE alienating them) being subverted more & more?
Is that we don't really KNOW if what replaces US as "the world cop/world leader" etc. will be worse... & we are not starving, yet.
Which is why, of course, welfare was put into place - because history, which all politicians know well & use to their advantage (especially for tricks like FIAT money centralized banking systems like the IMF who imo, really runs the show) is their BEST TOOL, along with psychology & sociology (the psychology of society's & societies are composed of INDIVIDUALS so - control the mind, OR MASS MIND? The ASS will follow).
History & psychology + sociology (statistics too) are their prognostication & control devices!
History is a weapon for them & a template (because they know folks will either not learn it or forget about it) so they can pull the same old tricks over & over again, time immemorial! Especially via mass media brainwashing on TV etc.!
Oldest trick in the WORLD too - ala:
"Oh no! The people have caught us again pulling our shit - QUICK, get out the psyops teams & mass media to put up some other news to distract them - they WILL forget about it"
Real "prestidigitation"... lol!
History's a tool for them, & one shows them that revolutions (the thing that dislodges established power bases) are caused by folks & their kids, starving... nothing to lose then, might as well take out the enemy @ that point.
HOWEVER - I am with you on only 1 point:
IF the U.S. ever gets "taken down" - again: Will the "new boss" be any better? Probably worse... ala the Who's song:
"MEET THE NEW BOSS - JUST THE SAME AS THE OLD BOSS"
Humanity's gotta change, or one day? We'll all flip out & end it (what a shame, because I think IF we can get past this bullshit? We'll do wonderful things like never before!)
This IS humanity's "turning point" hopefully... we need it.
Only problem is that I have seen? The human animal is a CORRUPTABLE fuckup... does the same shit, over & over again (because of being mislead & deceived largely over time by "the powers that be") & absolute power DOES corrupt absolutely.
Don't know about the rest of you but... sometimes? I am ASHAMED to be a human being because of these things, & worse?
I just KNOW we're better than that, but... it only takes 1 rotten apple to fuckup the cart & force EVERYONE into playing the games TheGrateFulNet noted!
APK
P.S.=> I do think that TheGrateFulNet had a point here (many in fact, goo
In Holland we got far more parties then an American can count on his toes, even a Hillbilly. Do you think we are any better off?
Our current government is lead by the VVD, they are a liberal sorta right wing party often labelled as the party of business. They are supported by the CDA, a "christian" party, you got Christians in America right? Well, they are a lot like that. They lost pretty big in the last election, punished for their leader BakEllende who combined the wit of Bush with the charm of Blair. They still deliver a lot of the ministers, because they got a lot of experience! (Yes, they were in charge when the economy took a nosedive but surely that is good experience? If you want a captain for your ship, the captain of the Titanic surely comes first to mind?)
Those two parties do not have a majority. They are supported through an open marriage type agreement to the PVV. The PVV is mostly known for its anti-immigrant agenda. Some might think that makes it a right wing party. Problem is that almost ALL its other (claimed) policies it used to present itself during the elections are left-wing and then some. Against cut back on health-care, higher retirement age etc etc.
Recent elections of our senate only worsened things with those 3 now needing the support of a tiny Christian party (drunk on power) who have 1 seat but that is enough for a majority vote on some key issues in exchange ofcourse for a 1 man party to have a LOT of influence. So CDA, trashed in the election continues to rule supported by a party of 1 vote.... democracy in action!
But it gets worse. PVV hates the PvDA, a party 1 seat below the VVD. Their names mean "Part of Labour". Labour in dutch is Arbeid. The party has been blamed for being soft on immigrants, especially the Arab kind. Can you see a funny joke coming up? Yes, the leader of the PVV is fond of calling the PvDA, the "Party of the Arabs". Hilarious!
He blames the party for betraying its own people, once the PvDA was against immigrants taking away the job from dutch labourers and lowering the wages.
This is correct, the PvDA historically was NOT a fan of immigration.
So, the PVV, the party that HATES immigrants, HATES the party that wasagainst immigration. But who then let the immigrants in? Why, the CDA and VVD, they were in charge at the time and wanted the cheap labour and made sure the obstacles were as low as possible. No learning the language or intigrating in the culture. Turks were supposed to work on the assembly line and clean and then piss off again back home. Migrant labourers.
So, the PVV is fighting the party that fought the policy it hates and supports the parties that created the police it hates.
But it gets funnier, in exchange for thougher immigration laws the PVV is totally forgetting its left wing ideals.
But since the PVV can't always be counted up on for a vote, the VVD/CDA also must make deals with the opposition parties on non-pvv supported fronts.
The amount of back room deals is insane and impossible to follow for the average human BUT what is the alternative?
The people have voted and given the country an unworkable government. Do the people want socialism or capitalism? Do they want cheap cleaners or do they want the immigrants out? For instance, I said that the party of VVD is business right? Well, CDA is also strong among farmers. Farmers are also businessmen. Do they therefor support the anti-immigration policies of the parties they tend to vote for? Like kicking the polish migrant workers out? Who work the fields?
AHAH! No... caught in a bit of a split there. The crops need harvesting and only eastern europeans are willing to work hard enough for low enough wages and arrange their own transport on top of it.
But holland got unemployed (not that much but enough to replace all immigrants with ease), so do the left wing parties support forcing the unemployed to take up the jobs? Hell no. Does the right wing support making arrangements to make the jobs attractive to dutch loca
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Illegally invading a country based on nothing but a pack of lies about non existing weapons of mass destruction is a crime against humanity. Reporting those crimes and all the countless incidents of murder of women and children and thousands of cases of torture should be encouraged, not criminalized. Whoever prosecutes those so called “whistle-blowers” should be judged in a court of law, in front of a jury of descent people. The same should apply to those that have committed the crimes, and do not forget that if you know of a crime that has been committed and help keep it secret, you are an accessory after the fact, so Mr Obama, close the concentration camp you have in Guantanamo bay, stop the CIA rendition program that illegally kidnaps people in other countries and takes them to countries where the CIA can freely torture them to get “information”. Those methods do not save lives, they just kill more people and makes everyone hate you. Grow a brain, become a human bean and start treating other countries respectfully, then in a few generations, after nobody remembers the crimes that your country has committed, possibly your country will be respected in this world.
Prisons nowadays? They're a BUSINESS man, a for PROFIT business (per your question here):
"it seems that a significant number of prosecutors and their superiors (DAs?) seem to see it as their job to convict as many people as possible, regardless of whether they've actually done anything wrong or no" - by harryjohnston (1118069) on Sunday June 19, @09:56PM (#36495032)
So that all "said & aside": Doesn't THAT tell you anything?
(Ala "kickbacks galore" & that the members of the justice system itself are stockholders also of said privatized penal system VERY possibly??)
* THINK ABOUT IT, "drink that in, & digest it" (real 'Food 4 Thought')...
APK
P.S.=> In fact, I am almost certain of this as well, right offhand, that I have bookmarks of this... if you reply back, I will try to find that data for your reference in fact!
... apk
Judges Plead Guilty in Scheme to Jail Youths for Profit:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html
---
And, there you go: Money's there to be made & to requote MY attorney?
"There is no law, no justice: ONLY MONEY! If you lack the 1st commodity, you get NONE of the 2nd"
APK
P.S.=> No, not all law enforcement folks take "kickbacks" etc. like that (& imo @ least from speaking to folks internationally I have know back in 1994 from Russian in a former collegiate academic classmate of mine who's a pal to this day of mine? It's a LOT more legal & honest here, than it is in mother Russia where he told me if you get pulled over for a traffic ticket?? You just pay the cop to avoid the legal system!)... but, my point is there, with a real example, not just "anecdotal b.s."!
... apk
He mea pôrangi tênei.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."