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Court Case To Test GNU GPL

ciaran_o_riordan writes "Tomorrow, a German court will hear the case of AVM, a distributor of Linux-based routers, which seeks to block Cybits from distributing software that modifies the routers' software to add content-filtering functionality. Free Software Foundation Europe explains: 'AVM justified its position using three arguments. First, they stated that their whole product software must be regarded as an entity under AVM copyright, and that this entity must not be modified. The position Mr. Welte [founder of gpl-violations.org and copyright holder of several parts of the Linux kernel] took was that the whole product software would in that case be a derivative work according to the GPL, and thus the whole product software should be licensed under the GNU GPL. AVM then switched to a second argument: that the software embedded on its DSL terminals consisted of several parts. According to Mr. Welte, AVM could then not prohibit anyone from modifying or distributing the GPL licensed software parts. The final argument by AVM was that the software on their DSL terminals is a composition of several different programs, which, due to the creative process, would be a protected compilation and thus under the copyright of AVM and not affected by the copyleft of the GPL.'"

371 comments

  1. Ethically and intellectually challenged... by pieterh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been making my software GPLd since 1991. If someone uses it, for free, and makes a derived work, and then tries to stop others from sharing that work, they are ethically and intellectually challenged.

    This is not a test case for the GPL, it's a straight-forward copyright violation case, where AVM is taking the work of tens of thousands of people, using it under a license that permits remixing, and then attempting to ignore those license conditions.

    Take them to the cleaners, Harald!

    1. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      ethically and intellectually challenged.

      No. Their ethics may conflict with yours and nothing can be said about their intelligence.

    2. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ethically and intellectually challenged.

      No. Their ethics may conflict with yours and nothing can be said about their intelligence.

      On the topic of ethics, they are more than just "ethically challenged" - they're hypocrites and crooks. Hypocrites, because they are saying "do as I say, not as I do" with respect to software licensing, and crooks because they are selling other people's work as if it were their own and without their permission (if you don't agree to the terms of the GPL, you cannot redistribute).

      Intellectually challenged? They're wasting money on a lost cause. Not smart ... :-)

    3. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by swillden · · Score: 2

      This is not a test case for the GPL, it's a straight-forward copyright violation case

      The really clever bit about the GPL is that any test case is a straight-forward copyright infringement case. People who violate the GPL find themselves in the unenviable position of having to try to use the GPL to justify their actions, because it's the only thing that gives them any shred of permission to use the code. All it takes, then, is for the court to evaluate the situation and realize that the GPL didn't actually give them permission because they didn't meet its requirements.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Ossifer · · Score: 1

      Exactly -- If they are denying the applicability of the GPL, then they themselves are copyright violators. unfortunately the copyright holders in this case are not party to the lawsuit.

    5. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...what?

    6. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Tetsujin · · Score: 2

      This is not a test case for the GPL, it's a straight-forward copyright violation case

      The really clever bit about the GPL is that any test case is a straight-forward copyright infringement case. People who violate the GPL find themselves in the unenviable position of having to try to use the GPL to justify their actions, because it's the only thing that gives them any shred of permission to use the code. All it takes, then, is for the court to evaluate the situation and realize that the GPL didn't actually give them permission because they didn't meet its requirements.

      That's not necessarily true. Bear in mind that, if put to a legal test, parts of the license could be found unenforceable, in which case someone could escape the terms of the GPL. Another possible loophole is the definition of a "derivative work". Generally I think we assume that if a project pulls in some code that is identifiable as having been part of a GPL product, then that project (according to the GPL) must also be licensed by the GPL. But that assertion, too, is something that would have to be tested. One could argue that the amount of GPL code is so small in comparison with the rest of the project that to claim the project is now a "derivative work" is unreasonable - in that case, the GPL code being linked in would still have to be distributed, possibly including any changes made to it - but the work as a whole would be unaffected.

      You can create a license that says all sorts of things, and have lawyers look at it and try to figure out if it will pass a test in court: but really, you don't know one way or another until it actually happens.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    7. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by hAckz0r · · Score: 1
      Either:
      a) They can't read the GPL License they received.
      or
      b) They can't follow simple directions.

      .
      I think that if they had not accomplished both 'a' and 'b' then it does say something about the state of their intelligence.

      Having no ethics is also one more example of lack of intelligence. If one is not smart enough to understand the 'cause and effect relationships' in ignoring a software license, then staying in business can be very hard without throwing millions at the lawyers to keep afloat.

      btw - Throwing money at the lawyers is not advisable and can have dire consequences. It may keep the other team fed and happy for a while, but what ever you do just don't feed them after midnight. Things can get really messy when you try to stop, if there is still money left over. The other teams lawyers can smell money a mile away, so its really hard to break the cycle, and that usually doesn't happen until after you are broke.

    8. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by JordanL · · Score: 1

      I contemplated modding down, but instead I will reply with something that may actually assist you:

      Posts about which counter-culture it is "acceptable" to be a part of are worse than useless. Your post essentially says "anyone who doesn't agree with my viewpoint on this is a flawed human being". For that, you deserve all the negative mod points that others will give you.

    9. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by afidel · · Score: 1

      The problem with all of those arguments is that if you don't agree to the GPL you have *zero* legal right to use the code, in whole or in part (unless it doesn't meet some copyright test like API headers with no creative value). It's a well written legal contract and a LOT of companies with large legal teams (like Cisco for example) have looked at it and ultimately caved because they couldn't find enough of a loophole to drive their case through, I doubt a company that has needed to change their legal strategy twice is going to defeat it.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    10. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if you consider the GPL unethical?

      What if you consider that might makes right?

      To imply that not following a software licence is unethical per se suggests a worrying level of conformity.

      I've had difficulty explaining the GPL to bosses in the past. They have no trouble with terms such as "$10000 up-front plus $5/unit". However, they consider unconscionable terms that say "give away modifications to the relevant source code".

      So, in your example, it is no different than your trying to use software that might have a license that says "$100/unit, plus patent licenses". If you consider the terms unreasonable (or "unethical", as you listed), then you simply do not license the software. Using the software implies that you agree to the license terms.

    11. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What if you consider the GPL unethical?

      Then don't redistribute software that is GPL-licensed.

      What if you consider that might makes right?

      Then the courts will properly and forcefully correct you and bar the distribution of your products until you comply with the license you accepted or make a new version that doesn't use someone else's work.

      To imply that not following a software licence is unethical per se suggests a worrying level of conformity.

      It's not like someone told them "YOU MUST USE LINUX ON YOUR ROUTER OR I'LL KILL YOU." The consciously made the choice to use Linux in their router system, and are now breaking its license terms.

      They could just as easily gone with a BSD, or paid money to someone to license a commercial OS, or designed their own OS. They chose to do none of the above, and are thus bound by the GPLv2.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    12. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had difficulty explaining the GPL to bosses in the past. They have no trouble with terms such as "$10000 up-front plus $5/unit". However, they consider unconscionable terms that say "give away modifications to the relevant source code, if the program is distributed".

      Here, fixed that for you.

    13. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a well written legal contract

      It's a license, not a contract. I agree most people don't know the difference, but there is one and it does matter in legal cases.

    14. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by JAlexoi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Egh... GPLv2 specifies that a derivative work is defined by the relevant copyright law. In this case, it's the German Author's rights law.

    15. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by tqk · · Score: 1

      ethically and intellectually challenged.

      No. Their ethics may conflict with yours and nothing can be said about their intelligence.

      Uhm, a whole lot of supposition is going on here, in case no-one's noticed. Intelligence doesn't always present itself as *blindingly, brilliantly obvious* to all comers. Intelligence always has its own agenda. Whether we're on its side, or we're its target is for us to determine.

      Yeah, I think Socrates would slap me silly for the sophistry; it's a fair cop. "dict sophistry":

                  His bad opponent's "facts" he sweeps away,
                  And drags his sophistry to light of day;
                  Then swears they're pushed to madness who resort
                  To falsehood of so desperate a sort.
                  Not so; like sods upon a dead man's breast,
                  He lies most lightly who the least is pressed.
                                                                                                                          Polydore Smith

      "Me, I'm an entertainer." -- Proximus

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    16. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before you flame me or mod me down, you might wanna go ahead and think, when was the last time you actually spoke out against the anarchists who howl against the existence of intellectual property in every other case? 'Cause if the answer isn't "within the last week", you're a hypocrite.

      If you have to add caveats like this then your post was either badly worded to start with (that's what preview is for) or the argument was flawed to start with.

      Free tip from someone who's had their fair share of points: if you think telling people how to mod your posts makes the slightest bit of difference, you're wrong. In fact you'll probably get modded down out of sheer bloody-mindedness.

    17. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      What if I told you now that by reading beyond this line of this post you're agreeing to send me $10,000?

      Please cite a law you can use to enforce that.

      The GPL authors use copyright law.

      Stop focusing on the license. The work is copyrighted. Therefore you start out with no right to distribute it.

      Without a license, you have no right to distribute. The court will find copyright infringement.

      The only thing that gives you permission is a license from the copyright owner(s). If you don't agree with that license, then you don't have a license, and thus no right to distribute under copyright law.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    18. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Software licenses are generally governed by contract law, so I'm not quite clear on what difference you think exists.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    19. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2

      You would also have to believe that Copyright is invalid. Of course, this would preclude their lawsuit. Assuming they believe in Copyright because of their position on others modifying their products, their ethical view of the GPL is not relevant to the Copyrighted works it covers.

      Without some license, you have no rights to reuse someone else's code. Denying the GPL is admitting infringement.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    20. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Licenses like the GPL are not auto-enforceable any more than your hypothetical is.

      Unfortunately for people who disagree with it, Copyright is.

      Redistributing a Copyrighted work is a federal offense in the USA and many other places. If you want a license to redistribute it legally, you must choose to obey the one offered to you.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    21. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but did you not realise the GPL is enforced under copyright and if you dont agree to the conditions of that copyright you have ZERO rights to do anything witht he code? Copyright is very well understood and hte GPL is a permission granted under copyright laws. If you do not follow the word of that poermission granted to copy the code, you are simply put in deep legal shit.

    22. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 1

      DickBreath,

      The law does not define ethics.

    23. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 1

      Your ethical system could define certain rights which cannot much be added to and/or taken away from by the wording of a licence.

      For example, you may believe that the GPL is "too communist" and as such anyone who attempts to licence their work under that licence should be considered to have released it into the public domain. Perhaps you believe so strongly that the GPL is unethical that you consider it necessary to break the GPL's terms so as to discourage use of the GPL.

      Think of how civil disobedience works. Now imagine that not everyone who is being civilly disobedient happens to agree with your beliefs.

    24. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Your post brings up something I've been wondering for awhile: What EXACTLY is wrong with BSD? Is its code shit? Is the tools to use it shit? Does its network stacks suck ass? What?

      Because you would think that companies that don't want to give back would just use BSD and be done with it, but instead they risk long drawn out and expensive lawsuits trying to snatch GPL code. So what is wrong with BSD that makes it better to risk a lawsuit than use it?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    25. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2

      Nothing you've described is disagreeing with the GPL.

      All of it is simply disagreement with Copyright.

      Copyright prevents you from doing things with GPL'd works, not the GPL. The GPL gives you rights you wouldn't have otherwise had.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    26. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by jd · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between agreeing to the GPL and agrring on what it says. It is a little ambiguous on just what constitutes a derivative project, at least in v2, but the current case doesn't seem like it's an ambiguity issue. The fact that the defense keeps changing legal basis and the definition of their own work indicates that the defense knew in advance that they were violating any interpretation of the GPL.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    27. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by s73v3r · · Score: 2

      What if you consider the GPL unethical?

      Then why are you using GPL software in the first place?

      What if you consider that might makes right?

      Then you are an asshole, plain and simple.

    28. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 1

      Copyright prevents you from doing things with GPL'd works, not the GPL. The GPL gives you rights you wouldn't have otherwise had.

      You're assuming one particular unspecified notion of copyright. No jurisdiction takes it to mean that every single right over some work is reserved to you. For example, the US has the notion of fair use: this is a right you get whether the copyright holder thinks you should have it or not. Perhaps someone believes that if you attempt to subvert [system] by trying to licence your work under the GPL then you forfeit many more protections.

    29. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Why is it not ethical to disobey a licence you consider unethical?

      Why is it ethical to use it in the first place? Why not find something else?

      What if I told you now that by reading beyond this line of this post you're agreeing to send me $10,000? Voluntary; full disclosure; informed consent. Stop reading now if you disagree.

      Except there wasn't full disclosure and informed consent.

    30. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      And what of obeying the wishes of the software's creator? I'm sure completely disregarding them is super ethical.

    31. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Your ethical system could define certain rights which cannot much be added to and/or taken away from by the wording of a licence.

      For example, you may believe that the GPL is "too communist" and as such anyone who attempts to licence their work under that licence should be considered to have released it into the public domain. Perhaps you believe so strongly that the GPL is unethical that you consider it necessary to break the GPL's terms so as to discourage use of the GPL.

      Then you don't use the GPL. You boycott it, and use something else which you find ethical.

      Think of how civil disobedience works.

      The thing everyone forgets when they bring up "civil disobedience" is that it is still disobedience, and you are still held responsible for your actions.

    32. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      That would fall under intellectually challenged indeed. The entire concept of licenses is part and parcel of Copyright. Your argument has become silly.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    33. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by bgat · · Score: 1

      Why is it not ethical to disobey a licence you consider unethical?

      Because licenses don't work that way. Assuming the terms of the license are not contrary to prevailing law, you must abide by the terms of the license if you engage it. You don't get it both ways.

      What if you think that you can get the courts to favour you?

      You are of course welcome to give it a shot. You are warned, however, that the GPL is a formidable opponent.

      --
      b.g.
    34. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by bgat · · Score: 1

      Redistributing a Copyrighted work is a federal offense in the USA and many other places.

      See also the Berne Convention. The concept of Copyright has teeth worldwide.

      --
      b.g.
    35. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Software licenses are generally governed by contract law, so I'm not quite clear on what difference you think exists."

      It's not so much the difference between license and contract but the fact that you don't get to negotiate its terms. In many jurisdictions that means that *some* clauses might be void while the rest intact. In this case that might mean, for instance, that the "you can distribute the binaries" might be enforceable but the "you can't put further restrictions" can not.

    36. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "But... but... Slashdot told me that information wants to be freeeeee!!!!! The GPL is just a mechanism for protecting imaginary property with the threat of violence via government thugs, right?"

      Exactly. Yes.

      And as long as the rest of society act like an asshole with regards of "intellectual propriety", that's the right thing to be done.

      I hope for a world where GPL becomes a stupid nonsense. In the meantime, I'm glad for GPL to exist.

    37. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      Why is it not ethical to disobey a licence you consider unethical? What if I told you now that by reading beyond this line of this post you're agreeing to send me $10,000? Voluntary; full disclosure; informed consent. Stop reading now if you disagree.

      First you've given no consideration. Secondly there is no law that makes it illegal for me to read what you post on a public forum without your consent. The laws say you must receive permission from the copyright holder before copying, or distributing copyrighted works.The GPL provides condition under which such permission is given. Nothing requires you to accept the licence, but if you do distribute it, your acceptance is assumed, because not to assume it would be to assume that you had committed an unlawful act.

    38. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      Also the reason why in this case AVM is acting dishonorably is because it is simultaneiously trying to seek the protection of copyright law, while trying to avoid liabilities thereto.

    39. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Dwonis · · Score: 1

      That's not necessarily true. Bear in mind that, if put to a legal test, parts of the license could be found unenforceable, in which case someone could escape the terms of the GPL.

      Courts generally only do that if there's a severability clause. GPL has an anti-severability clause:

      If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues), conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all.

    40. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is likely no such thing as absolute morals to begin with. What you perceive as "unethical" may not be so for others. And they're not necessarily "wrong."

    41. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GPL specifically forbids linking to non-GPL code, thats why the LGPL exists, thats the licence for people who want their code to be linkable to non-GPL code.

      Also this is a quote from the GPL: "Any attempt otherwise to propagate or modify it is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under this License". So basically if you breach any part of the GPL the whole licence is declared void and you just get the rights you'd get under normal copyright law. And since you'd not be the copyright holder that means that you wouldn't have permission to use the code at all.

    42. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What if you consider that might makes right?

      Tough luck for you then, since GPL (as well as any other software license grounded in copyright) has the full might of the legal system of whatever state you're residing it backing it.

    43. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Captain+Sensible · · Score: 0

      AVM may have good legal ground. The GPL does not correspond to copyright law as it existis in many countries so may not be legally enforceable.

    44. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by NNKK · · Score: 1

      Linux is and has always been about practicality. BSD is and has always been about an academic-purity wankfest. It's hardly surprising companies would gravitate to a project focused on solving real-world problems instead of one that demands adherence to 40-year-old concepts of correctness.

    45. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      True, to some extent, one might argue that it is a contract of adhesion, and thus not necessarily enforceable, but that doesn't make it inherently not a contract, unless by "not a contract", you really mean "not necessarily a binding contract". And truthfully, that's true even for contracts that are negotiated and signed. If you realize later that certain terms are illegal, the courts can invalidate them. In other words, software licenses are really no different than any other contract.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    46. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by mikey1134 · · Score: 1

      You are within your rights to consider the GPL unethical, that's your (or their) opinion. However, you have no right to the use of the software copyrighted by the opensource developers. The only thing giving you any right to that software is the terms of the GPL. If you disagree with its terms or consider it unethical, you can choose to not use GPL software. If I think the local store is price gouging, I have a choice to go elsewhere, but I am not entitled to steal their product because I consider their prices unreasonable or enethical.

      --
      <gir voice> I love this sig... </gir voice>
    47. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by jbn-o · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind that, if put to a legal test, parts of the license could be found unenforceable, in which case someone could escape the terms of the GPL.

      We should not talk about the GPL as if it has never been scrutinized in court before. I know of no case where some part of the GPL was deemed unenforceable. I know of the opposite: a judge telling the litigants that the GPL is enforceable and that the alleged copyright infringer should clean up their act (the implication being that the defendant won't like what happens after one is found to have violated the license) followed by an out-of-court settlement.

      Another possible loophole is the definition of a "derivative work". Generally I think we assume that if a project pulls in some code that is identifiable as having been part of a GPL product, then that project (according to the GPL) must also be licensed by the GPL. But that assertion, too, is something that would have to be tested.

      I very much doubt that identifying a derivative work is new. Copyright has dealt with derivative works for a long time. Why would the GPL pose substantial novelty here? Overall in copyright and with regards to the GPL specifically, I don't think there's as much new ground here as you think there is; the GPL was built on remarkably well-trod ground. I think of this in the way Eben Moglen taught us to think of it: would-be litigants are wise not to take this kind of case to court on the theory that the GPL is somehow untested because plenty of lawyers in large firms have looked at the GPL and declined to go to court after examining what the GPL says. I'm reminded of one case I saw the outcome of but never noticed go to court: NeXT's Steve Jobs apparently thought it was okay to build on GCC with NeXT's Objective-C code and distribute the result without also distributing complete corresponding source code. Talk about ethically and intellectually challenged. The FSF talked to NeXT and NeXT shipped complete corresponding source code afterwards. I doubt NeXT changed their mind without running it past the lawyers first.

    48. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it not ethical to disobey a licence you consider unethical? What if I told you now that by reading beyond this line of this post you're agreeing to send me $10,000?

      There's a huge difference between reading your post, and redistributing your post as my own work.

      If you don't like a license, don't use it. If you decide to break it as a form of civil disobedience, copyright law is not on your side.

    49. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

      It may not be polite to disregard the author's wishes, but it's certainly completely ethical. How ethical is it if I, as the author, could tell you "No you're not allowed to store that book YOU bought on anything but a coffee table for the next 20 years"? Copyright does pretty much the same thing at the point when you decide you want to make and distribute copies.

    50. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You miss the point. If the GPL is unenforceable, then there is no license giving them permission to use the code, and they are in breach of copyright. GPL code is copyrighted by the author, and licensed under particular conditions, it is not public domain.

    51. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that if it was found that part of the GPL was unenforceable, the software could not be distributed at all, since the GPL grants an ability to distribute which by default is not granted (the work is then copyrighted and a waiver to distribute is not granted).

    52. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Right, and if the licence is unenforceable, you go back to the position where you don't have a licence. And if you don't have a licence, you have fair dealing / fair use rights only.

    53. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by tehcyder · · Score: 0

      I've been making my software GPLd since 1991. If someone uses it, for free, and makes a derived work, and then tries to stop others from sharing that work, they are ethically and intellectually challenged.

      This is not a test case for the GPL, it's a straight-forward copyright violation case, where AVM is taking the work of tens of thousands of people, using it under a license that permits remixing, and then attempting to ignore those license conditions.

      Take them to the cleaners, Harald!

      Yes, if there's one thing we can't stand here on slashdot it's people violating copyright. Oh, wait a minute...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    54. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by micheas · · Score: 1

      If you disobey/do not accept the GPL license then the license is void and the fallback is copyright law.

      This is a rock and a hard place to negotiate from.

      The most common ways to try circumventing the GPL is to claim:

      • that the terms are vague enough that despite what the copyright holder thinks, you are complying with the GPL
      • That the material in question is not copyrightable, and therefor a license is unnecessary
      • Claim that the copyright holder has not proven that they are the copyright holder and have no standing to sue.
    55. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by rbrausse · · Score: 1

      it is enforcable - the German copyright law has even a "Linux-Klausel" (Linux clause). One of the reforms of the law included a passage that explicitly allows copyright owners to permit free usage rights to evereyone (UrhG $32 (3); last sentence)); before this it was disputed that free of cost licences are possible under German law.

      afaik the first real test for the GPL in Germany was in 2004 - a court in Munich recognized the license as compatible with the copyright law.

    56. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Having no ethics is also one more example of lack of intelligence. If one is not smart enough to understand the 'cause and effect relationships' in ignoring a software license, then staying in business can be very hard without throwing millions at the lawyers to keep afloat.

      If this were true, sociopaths would not exist. It is possible to have ethics without (much) intelligence, and to be highly intelligent with no ethics.

      This particular cause and effect relationship is by no means uncomplicated. There are any number of potential outcomes to their behavior. Fewer now that it has advanced to this point, but they could easily have believed it would never be an issue. I'm sure there are many companies out there who incorporate GPL code and never bother to comply with the license.

    57. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In short. No.

      The GPL gives you ADDITIONAL right (the ability to use the source code in your own derivative works); in the event that the contract (GPL) were found unenforceable then you have just stolen code that you had no right to (since the contract was found unenforceable and declared void).

      I'm trying to think up a similar 'physical world' type situation for this, it's hard because the GPL is so altruistic that it would likely be impossible to apply it to physical world products (due to some initial cost), but here goes.

      A man develops a new fishing pole using materials that he can get for a steep discount. He sells the poles themselves, he also sells kits that include the materials to make the poles and the plans to make the pole. Since he makes most of his money off the profit from the materials and/or because he's a bit of an altruist and would prefer that the world have more fishermen he decides that he will let someone buy the kit and get the plans and produce there own rods so long as they continue to attribute the original design to him.

      Someone buys the rod kit, and gets the plans, builds there rod, and makes a few changes which they think improve the rod (but followed the plan provided) then start selling there new rod without attributing the original design. The creator of the rod finds out and takes the thief to court. The judge decides that the attribution clause is unenforceable, and the contract is considered void; the thief is now guilty of stealing the creator's plans and making multiple unlicensed copies.

      Unfortunately this still involves a virtual product (plans), I will contemplate a new one.

    58. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Mr.+McGibby · · Score: 1

      Copyright doesn't give you the right to control every single use of your work in every way forever. There are limits like fair use that apply to GPL software just as they apply to any other software. Various interoperability clauses allow me to use your software in a way you might not like, and then not release the code. Too bad for you. Just because *you* think that *my* work is a derived work, doesn't make it so. A court gets to decide that, in the case that you actually decide to sue me, which most GPL copyleft owners don't seem to be doing.

      I love Open Source, the GPL, and Free Software. I'm a big believer. But I don't also don't think that the GPL should be used the same way that DRM is used, preventing people from doing what they have the legal right to do.

      --
      Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
    59. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      A contract of adhesion does not void any parts of the contract in any jurisdiction that I know about (IANAL). Parts may still be void or voidable for other reasons, of course - no consideration, no meeting of the minds, against public policy, illegal, unconscionable, a party is incompetent or a minor, etc. A contract of adhesion will, however, insofar as it is vague or contradictory be interpreted as much as possible in favor of the party who did not draft the agreement.

      Like all legal principles in practice it can be applied or not depending on how the judge feels about the totality of the case. In practice you often do better figuring out which way a judge will rule by looking at the parties rather than the documents, let alone the laws.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    60. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by swillden · · Score: 1

      It is a little ambiguous on just what constitutes a derivative project, at least in v2

      What constitutes a derivative work is extremely well-defined -- by decades of case law. Note that what the GPL says constitutes a derivative work doesn't really matter -- "derivative work" is a term of art in copyright law and the GPL doesn't get to redefine it in any significant way, other than perhaps to weaken the term a little.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    61. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The thing everyone forgets when they bring up "civil disobedience" is that it is still disobedience, and you are still held responsible for your actions.

      But that's so unfair!!!!

      [Sticks out bottom lip. Folds arms. Orders another mockacockatriplattofrappo]

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    62. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by laurelraven · · Score: 1

      I've had difficulty explaining the GPL to bosses in the past. They have no trouble with terms such as "$10000 up-front plus $5/unit". However, they consider unconscionable terms that say "give away modifications to the relevant source code, if the program is distributed".

      Here, fixed that for you.

      The problem with that is that many will not hear the "if the program is distributed" part. Selective hearing is a real bitch.

      --
      RTFA is Known to the State of California to cause cancer.
    63. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless he's so mighty that he really can kick the fuck out of the state. Pretty unlikely, since the latter has lots of guys with sticks. And guns. And pointy hats.

    64. Re:Ethically and intellectually challenged... by znerk · · Score: 1

      Copyright doesn't give you the right to control every single use of your work in every way forever. There are limits like fair use that apply to GPL software just as they apply to any other software. Various interoperability clauses allow me to use your software in a way you might not like, and then not release the code. Too bad for you. Just because *you* think that *my* work is a derived work, doesn't make it so. A court gets to decide that, in the case that you actually decide to sue me, which most GPL copyleft owners don't seem to be doing.

      I love Open Source, the GPL, and Free Software. I'm a big believer. But I don't also don't think that the GPL should be used the same way that DRM is used, preventing people from doing what they have the legal right to do.

      I think you missed the point. Nothing in the GPL says you can't do anything you damn well please with it if you keep it in-house. It's when you try to distribute it that you run into issues; you must distribute the source along with the product, or (as I understand it) at the very least make the source available.

      To change gears and address the rest of your comment, your comparison of the GPL to DRM is absolutely absurd. DRM attempts to prevent unauthorized distribution, whereas the GPL attempts to ensure that the software remains open-source. Allow me to rephrase, in case you missed it: DRM wants to keep you from copying the product at all, whereas GPL wants to make sure that when/if you give a (derivative) copy of the product away, the plans for how to build it go with it.

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
  2. i um er ahh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ya everytime you tell me the way it is , ill just change my argument until i find a loophole um er ya um ah ya thats it.
    ----------
    nice try dummies and the judge will and most do look at origian remarks and as they topple down the tree to find loopholes judges look at that spirit of the law and don't think its gonna go good, i just about fell off my chair at the stealing others work and claiming copyright on it part and doing so as a commercial end....in canada that gets you a 20000$ fine per sale they did.

  3. Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by kerobaros · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think he's half right. Either the company is intelligent yet ethically challenged, in that they know that they are violating the GPL yet do not care, or they are ethically sound but intellectually challenged, in that they don't know they're controverting the license. I believe one of these scenarios is the case.

    1. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to go. Now we have your two versions, GP's version and AVM's version. Unless someone comes up with something more than intelligence and ethics all possible versions are covered.

    2. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      Therefore I declare this thread now over. There is no new ground to cover.

    3. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I might have agreed with you before the lawyers got involved. But AVM have changed their position several times in response to gpl-violations.org complaints. They can no longer claim ignorance.

      A place where ignorance may have been involved was the decision to use the Linux kernel in the first place. If they had used, say, FreeBSD they wouldn't be having these conversations.

    4. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by anyGould · · Score: 1

      I might have agreed with you before the lawyers got involved. But AVM have changed their position several times in response to gpl-violations.org complaints. They can no longer claim ignorance.

      The changing positions also signal that they're more interested in winning than being right. Which puts them firmly in the "bad guy" camp.

      I'm disappointed that the judge didn't slap them around a bit for working their way through three contradictory theories.

    5. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by tqk · · Score: 1

      I think he's half right. Either the company is intelligent yet ethically challenged, in that they know that they are violating the GPL yet do not care, or they are ethically sound but intellectually challenged, in that they don't know they're controverting the license. I believe one of these scenarios is the case.

      Damn, there's a lot of gray in there. Eew!

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      The changing positions also signal that they're more interested in winning than being right. Which puts them firmly in the "bad guy" camp.

      I'm disappointed that the judge didn't slap them around a bit for working their way through three contradictory theories.

      Yes.

      And that's espescially sad as I always had the feeling that AVM products were a bit more open than their competitors. (Except perhaps that box where OpenWRT first was made for).

      you can dial a code on your phone to activate a telnet server on the router, it even has an editor onboard - always seemed like an invitation to tinker and play to me. You only got a message that your warranty is void - until you switch back to the original rom.

      I'm a bit dissappointed.

      --
      bickerdyke
    7. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      The lawyer for the other party might politely point this out to the court. And suggest that the court does not pay too much attention to AVMs theories, as they obviously don't know what their own position is ;-)

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    8. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Therefore I declare this thread now over. There is no new ground to cover.

      Not quite. kerobaros created a false dichotomy: it's possible they didn't know they were violating the GPL and wouldn't care if they did know.

      As it said on Yes, Minister, "If you're stupid you've got to be honest; if you're crooked you've got to be clever." I only threw that quote because it's funny; I'm not suggesting one can't be honest and clever or crooked and stupid.

    9. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I'm disappointed that the judge didn't slap them around a bit for working their way through three contradictory theories.

      I'm aware this is a German court and not the US, but at least in the US you can claim alternative mutually exclusive defenses.

      At a late 1970s American Bar Association seminar in New York,[1] Richard "Racehorse" Haynes gave this example: "Say you sue me because you say my dog bit you. Well, now this is my defense: My dog doesn't bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don't believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don't have a dog." Normally such arguments would seem to cancel each other on their face, however, legally "even if" and "anyway" clauses need not be argued; mutually exclusive defenses can be advanced without excuses for their relationship to each other. Of course jurists might be influenced by dual defenses such as "my dog was tied up" and "I don't have a dog", but this must be weighed against the fact that defenses may not be allowed if they are introduced too late.

      So formally, there's no reason to complain - but you're not doing your credibility any favors by doing so.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:Ethically OR intellectually challenged. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  4. Grey Knights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure either one of lulzsec or Anonymous would be happy to destroy AVM should the judge be clueless.

  5. I don't think so by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 4, Informative

    1. This violates the GPL over the GPL-licensed parts of the whole, and therefore the GPL-licensed parts have to be excluded when the whole is distributed. The same reasoning applies if the restriction is due to a compilation copyright over the whole or a license regarding use that prohibits modification.

    2. Irrelevant: the GPL parts continue to be licensed under the GPL or they can not be redistributed. The GPL permission for compilations does not weaken the GPL license for GPL components so compiled.

    3. All a compilation copyright means is that no one else can redistribute the compilation. However, it can not restrict redistribution of the GPL licensed parts.

    About the only case that can be made is that modified routers can't be sold, but routers could be sold along with the means to modify them. Or a router could be sold, and someone hired to modify it.

    Of course, I am not a lawyer, and would welcome one correcting any error I made above.

    --
    In Liberty, Rene
    1. Re:I don't think so by wintertargeter · · Score: 1

      Amen

    2. Re:I don't think so by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      Now, the argument could be made that AVM needs to control quality over its products, and unauthorized modification may compromise that quality -- you don't want to be on the hook for someone else's changes to your router.

      Therefore a license restriction to ensure continued support starts to make sense.

      However, what that is is a warranty issue: "Warranty void if operating firmware modified". There, how hard is that?

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    3. Re:I don't think so by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      What's at issue is a third party adding functionality to AVM's product that likely competes with another AVM product sold at a higher price.

    4. Re:I don't think so by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      About the only case that can be made is that modified routers can't be sold, but routers could be sold along with the means to modify them.

      Not really, because if they're placing additional restrictions on the redistribution of someone else's GPLed code, they lose the right to distribute that code under the terms of the GPL.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    5. Re:I don't think so by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      No, you can still redistribute the modified GPL code, but not the non-GPL bits that make up the compilation. At least, not unless the doctrine of first sale applies, and that strikes me as (a) weak, and possibly whisked away by, say, a reseller-contract, and (b) likely not applicable in Germany, anyway.

      I can't take a Red Hat Linux CD, add stuff to it (assuming no difference between making a modified copy and modifying the physical original, which can't be done easily with CDs), and redistribute it unless (a) I remove all the non-GPL bits copyright Red Hat and others, or (b) secure Red Hat's permission. Red Hat, IIRC, grants that permission so long as I don't use their trademarks to promote it.

      But, what this boils down to is restricting convenience: what is the logical difference of my buying something and modifying it, vs. my buying something and having someone else modify it for me, vs. someone else buying something, modifying it, and reselling it to me?

      Nothing, yet, some of those might be restricted under the license covering the non-GPL bits of the compilation.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    6. Re:I don't think so by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 1

      Of course, this does not appear to apply to the instant case, because apparently Cybits is not modifying routers purchased for resale, but rather distributing software to modify them by their owners.

      At this point, the argument becomes one of "Well, if a reseller can't sell modified routers because it violates their license regarding the copyright non-GPL bits", and Cybits facilitates such modification, Cybits is an "enabler" of copyright infringement.

      As much as I try to play Devil's Advocate for the plaintiff here, I find plausible arguments in their favor getting weaker and weaker. And, that's a good thing.[*]

      [*] I wrote "that's a good thing", not "it's a good thing"®. So back off, Ms. Stewart!

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    7. Re:I don't think so by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      IANAL either, but I think you basically got it right. The one detail you might have overlooked, which may be relevant, is that the GPL explicitly forbids sublicensing! So they can't apply a separate license (even the null license) to the compilation; only to its individual parts. This is why there is no overall license for, e.g., Red Hat or Debian. Red Hat has a license for its trademarks, but if you strip those (as with CentOS), everything else is freely distributable and modifiable.

    8. Re:I don't think so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For you and everyone else saying "I am not a lawyer":

      Given the track record of these fucking vultures and the unethical behavior of their clients, who gives a shit what lawyers think. Common sense should prevail, not people who make right the opinions of whoever holds the most money.

      The system is broken, and if the wrong side wins, we are not bound by its flawed decisions. We continue doing what is right and damn those who have not the common sense to recognize the truth.

  6. Re:Lawyers by the_B0fh · · Score: 2

    Why? There's one on the side of the bad guys, and there's on on the side being bullied, and there's one more on the side protecting our rights.

    Seems like 2 out of 3 of the lawyers (or teams of them) are fighting for the cause of the good guys, or fighting against the bad guys at least.

  7. Simply put.... by mark-t · · Score: 2

    *ANY* copyrighted work derivative must comply with the expectations and terms of the original copyright holder. How, exactly, is using the GPL any different from this?

    1. Re:Simply put.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's obviously because upstream distributed the source. Therefore people can use it however the please.

      Seriously, I've heard people make that argument...if people didn't want others using their code willy-nilly, they shouldn't have opened the source. It staggers the mind that people can be that dull.

    2. Re:Simply put.... by mark-t · · Score: 0

      So really, if authors don't want their stuff to be copied by others, then they shouldn't publish? Clearly, because they are publishing, they are allowing other people to read their work and possibly copy it without any permission whatsoever.

    3. Re:Simply put.... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Wow... J.K. Rowling and Disney, most writers, painters, poets, and songwriters might have a bit of a problem with that as would hundreds of years of law controlling the Right to Copy work published by someone else.

      Copyright is a special right created by society to encourage people to create stories, songs, write plays, paint paintings, write plays, and yes... programs with the expectation that these works will eventually enter the public domain.

      Copyright has been abused all to hell and should probably be reverted back to a period less than 30 years. (and require ongoing significant and increasing payments to keep it out of the public domain).

      But the outcome of your version is - a greatly diminished number of works. If you can't make money on your books, songs, programs then only enthusiasts could create them in their spare time while they otherwise worked at "real" jobs that paid money. Often the money is the difference between a finished, polished product and an amateurish "90% done" work because it takes almost as much time and money to get that last 10% done as it did to get the first 90% done.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    4. Re:Simply put.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you failed to noticed that I was being sarcastic in my above post.

      My point is that a copyright holder has, by definition (copyright = "right to copy"), the right to impose limitations on who makes copies of their works. The GPL does nothing more than expressly grant such permission to anyone who agrees to abide by its terms. For anyone else, it's exactly the same as any other copyrighted work... you have the right to use it as you see fit, but not copy it under whatever terms you might want unless those terms happen to be compatible with the terms of the GPL.

      Full stop.

    5. Re:Simply put.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solution: let govt guarantee a basic income, so if you want to create something you have the option to devote your time to it, without the distractions of having to work for Ignorant Motherfucker little Napoleon bosses who are so insecure they will do whatever is in their power to keep you thinking about them and worrying about the social games in the workplace 24/7. BECAUSE THEY CAN!

    6. Re:Simply put.... by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      Yup, not a GPL test at all. Simply a copyright case.

    7. Re:Simply put.... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Yup. thought you were serious.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  8. AVM itself is in violation of the license by doperative · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Ironically, by preventing others from enacting the rights granted by the GNU GPL, AVM itself is in violation of the license terms. Therefore they have no right to distribute the software" says Till Jaeger.

    1. Re:AVM itself is in violation of the license by Bengie · · Score: 2

      Get one of those injunction things that blocks them from selling those units until the case is straitened out.

    2. Re:AVM itself is in violation of the license by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      But then Cybis is also loosing. They need these routers to be sold to sell their software.

    3. Re:AVM itself is in violation of the license by hey! · · Score: 2

      That raises in interesting possibility I hadn't thought about. Just because GPL requires you to give certain rights to any derivative works does it mean that recipients of such works *actually receive those rights*? I'm thinking probably not.

      Party A licenses software a under GPL.

      Party B incorporates software a into proprietary licensed product b, thus violating GPL.

      Party C creates derivative work c from b.

      So, is it possible that both C and B are violating software licenses here? It'd work like this. Party C is acting as if b was licensed under GPL as it should have been, *but has not*. Morally, B *should have* licensed b as GPL, *but did not*. Therefore C should have GPL rights to use b, *but does not*.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:AVM itself is in violation of the license by booch · · Score: 1

      The GPL states that sub-licensees (i.e. Party C) receive all the same rights that licensees receive. So any use of A's code by C is perfectly fine, even if it came through Party B.

      Where it could get tricky is if Party C uses code that Party B wrote and claims in not licensed under the GPL. This is where the courts have to come in and straighten things out. But section 5 of the GPLv2 says that "by modifying or distributing the Program [...], you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, and all its terms and conditions". And one of those conditions is that modified versions be licensed under the same license. So Party C has a pretty strong case that the code that they received from Party B is licensed under the GPL. (Because the fact that it was modified and distributed is prima facie evidence that the license was accepted by Party B.)

      The really difficult worse case is if Party B were to use code stolen from Party D and then integrated into the GPL code from Party A. Party D would have a valid claim stating that they had no intention for the code to be GPLed and did not accept the license, and Party B had no right to accept it for them. I would suspect that such a case would be handled similarly to a case of unwittingly receiving stolen property -- you're not in trouble for having it, but you have to give it back.

      --
      Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    5. Re:AVM itself is in violation of the license by hey! · · Score: 1

      So Party C has a pretty strong case that the code that they received from Party B is licensed under the GPL.(Because the fact that it was modified and distributed is prima facie evidence that the license was accepted by Party B.)

      Except that party B's distributing software b under a proprietary license trumps the prima facie evidence that B has accepted the GPL. Many, maybe even most people would think C morally justified in using B's code as if B were in compliance with its own license, and I suspect that B would not be able to win any monetary damages against C, but unless there is some kind of "screw you for being an asshole" rule in the law of contracts, B might be able to win some kind of injunctive relief against C. That might enable them to negotiate some kind of out of court settlement from C, thus allowing B to profit from its misdeeds.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  9. Why does AVM have a problem in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It looks like Cybits wants to add some additional functionality to the router, which makes it a win-win situation for both the companies. Set aside the pro-GPL arguments, why does AVM have a problem with another company adding features?

    1. Re:Why does AVM have a problem in the first place? by Rene+S.+Hollan · · Score: 2

      Because the "features" may, in fact, introduce bugs, for which the customer may try to hold AVM responsible.

      But, that is a warranty issue, and easily addressed.

      --
      In Liberty, Rene
    2. Re:Why does AVM have a problem in the first place? by swv3752 · · Score: 2

      More likely, the features means the router competes with more expensive products.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    3. Re:Why does AVM have a problem in the first place? by Ruzty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because AVM sells other products, at a higher price/profit, which contain those additional features. They want to protect their revenue stream.

      --
      The Master (Angelo Rossitto) in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, "Not shit, energy!"
  10. AVM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adult Video Magazine?

    I think I'm going to side with them.

  11. In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by roguegramma · · Score: 1

    In addition, a compilation is a derived work and the author needs to secure the copyrights to the parts. Of course, often a compilation is made from parts that have lost their copyright status, or are to small to be considered a work, but that does not mean that creating a compilation magically waives the rights of the creators of the parts.

    IANAL, and also not yours.

    --
    Hey don't blame me, IANAB
    1. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Informative

      In addition, a compilation is a derived work

      Not legally, no. To create a compilation, you do need rights to publish each part, but you do not need permission to modify or prepare derivative works. And even if that weren't the case, the GPL explicitly has an exception.

      From v3: "Inclusion of a covered work in an aggregate does not cause this License to apply to the other parts of the aggregate."

      From v2: "In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License."

    2. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      I think that is the clearest explaination of what's going on here; making a compilation of copyrighted materials does not terminate the copyrights of those materials.
      Also, as far as I know the whole "copyrighted compilation" thing only goes when significant and non-trivial effort has gone into compilation, neither of which is the case here.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    3. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Its akin to someone publishing a book that includes some Shakespeare plays, the Harry Potter series, and their own novels.

      They'd be sued for including the Harry Potters without permission, despite having created a new compilation work.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    4. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by Raenex · · Score: 1

      To create a compilation, you do need rights to publish each part, but you do not need permission to modify or prepare derivative works.

      This is a rather strange thing to say. If a part of the compilation is under copyright, then the compilation itself is a derivative work. That's why you need permission to publish each part that is under copyright.

      And even if that weren't the case, the GPL explicitly has an exception.

      Quite true, but if the compilation is considered a whole work worthy of copyright in and of itself, then the GPL must apply to the whole work. So you need to be very careful on the nature of the compilation.

    5. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      That would be the "several different parts" argument. According to TFA, AVM tried that as its second scenario, and abandoned it because it did not fly somehow. So they tried it and did not have much luck that way :-)

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    6. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

      To create a compilation, you do need rights to publish each part, but you do not need permission to modify or prepare derivative works.

      This is a rather strange thing to say. If a part of the compilation is under copyright, then the compilation itself is a derivative work.

      No it is not. And this is the whole point of this argument and frequent discussions on license-discuss@opensource.org.

      For the extreme open-source people, anything that uses GPL2, must also be GPL2.
      But that is not true. If you build something, and that does work without a GPL2 library, but can optionally use it, the work does not have to be GPL2. Otherwise all programs on linux would have to be GPL2.
      So if I make a addon for program X that adds a feature that requires a GPL2 library/program, the addon will have to be GPL2, but the program doesn't. Examples of these are also database access layers.

      The distinction between derivative works and independent works is blurry at the moment. And this is what the case is about, as far as TFS goes. So it is good for courts to investigate this line.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    7. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      It didn't work basically because they tried to argue that the copyright for the compilation overrode the license for the components, but the GPL doesn't allow sublicensing in any form, so that doesn't work. However, they can still claim a copyright over the compilation, as long as they don't change the licensing for the GPL'd parts. So it wasn't that their argument was wrong, it was simply that it did nothing to further their goals.

      Compilation copyrights tend to be very weak in any case.

    8. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by sulimma · · Score: 1

      In german law the copyright on the aggregate does not cover the individual parts, but the decisions to aggregate them in a certain way. (Like which parts to include, how to order them, etc.). http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__4.html
      In principle you can have a copyright on that without holding the copyright or a license for the individual parts. You would have no right to distribute the aggregate, because you need a license to the individual parts. But you could prevent someone else (who might have these licenses) from distributing an identical aggregate without licensing the aggregate format from you.

      Practically usually the aggragation is too primitive to be considered a work in the sense of the law, and I doubt that AVM meets this theshold with their distribution.

      BUT: From the article it is clear, that Cybit does not distribute an aggregate. It modifies a part of an aggregation. They could try to invoke 14 of the law, which allows a creator to prevent modifications under certain conditions. http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__14.html
      But I do not think that holds, as Cybit is only modifying the parts, which are not AVM copyright. The aggregation is kept intact. (At least I don't see any reference to parts of the software beeing removed or software added)
      Also, the modification by Cybit are unlikely to exceed the threshold set by 14 UrHG.

    9. Re:In addition, the compilation is under the GPL by Raenex · · Score: 1

      If you build something, and that does work without a GPL2 library, but can optionally use it, the work does not have to be GPL2. Otherwise all programs on linux would have to be GPL2.

      As long as you don't copy the GPL program as part of a whole, there is no issue. The case under discussion is a whole being copied (the firmware for the router).

      The distinction between derivative works and independent works is blurry at the moment. And this is what the case is about, as far as TFS goes. So it is good for courts to investigate this line.

      It's only blurry because people don't want to follow the rules of the GPL and they latch on to the escape hatch of the aggregate clause, and then ignore the parts talking about a whole.

      In this case, AVM made a claim that they owned a copyright to the work as a whole, including GPL parts. If that is the case, the GPL applies.

  12. Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Since when has anyone on Slashdot wanted to enforce artificial restrictions on information, which, by definition, should be "free"?

    The cognitive dissonance between this story and the countless (pro-)piracy stories is astounding.

    1. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by lordbeejee · · Score: 1

      How is this restrictions on information? Cybits wants to distribute altered parts of the dsl software and AVM wants to restrict this and is named as a gpl violater here so that is the party that wants to restrict.

    2. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      The down-modding on the parent comment is incorrect. It's a valid comment. I hate mismodding like this on Slashdot which silences legitimate dissent.

      However, people on slashdot are not universally pro-pirate.
      * Many are for more reasonable copyright laws (14/28 years).
      * Many don't view it as a lost sale if the person couldn't afford to purchase the product in the first place. (Yes it is piracy- but with no real damage to the creator. Less damage than libraries (which are legal) in fact.
      * Many (I) am opposed to the corporate abuse of copyright law ( Seriously-- Happy Birthday, To You-- STILL UNDER COPYRIGHT???)

      With regard to this article, they are generally against hypocrites who infringe the work of others who donated free materials to the community and then try to claim copyright protection on the infringed copyrighted works.

      If a commercial business wants- it can right its own router code. Oh wait- that's REAL expensive. So comply with the GPL terms- sell your hardware and be happy.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    3. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Greyfox · · Score: 2
      You realize that Slashdot is composed of different "people", right? And that "people" can hold wildly different "opinions" on "subjects"?

      Perhaps you should work on that.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    4. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the *really* stupid thing is there's almost always BSD-licensed code available anyway. Why not just use that, if you don't want to release the source?

    5. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2

      The cognitive dissonance between this story and the countless (pro-)piracy stories is astounding.

      Only if you fail at logic. The pro-Free-Software stance is "it's good to share, and to those ends, we're going to share our stuff with you (as long as you share it with others in turn)." Given that "sharing is good" is a bedrock principle of that opinion, it's unsurprising that a somewhat overlapping set of people also believes that it's OK to share other things.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    6. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GPL, as it it written today, exists within our legal framework because it must. If copyright didn't exist, if software by law were free to share, copy, modify and run, the GPL would look very, very different. (if indeed it would even be needed)

    7. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 2

      No. I've come across your argument or a variant of it every time I point out the above.

      The problem is that even if an organization is pro-sharing, the way the GPL accomplishes that is by putting *restrictions* on what you can do with the information/software/etc. that they produce and release. If the pro-sharing groups believe it's okay for their group to restrict how someone uses their information by requiring distribution of source for derivative works (i.e. copyleft/GPL), they *have* to be okay with a different group restricting how someone uses their information by prohibiting redistribution or derivative works entirely without licensing/royalties (i.e. traditional copyright). They are all restrictions.

      Now you might argue that one set of restrictions (copyleft/GPL) is better than another (copyright), or that copyleft/GPL would be unnecessary if there were no such thing as copyright in the first place.

      To the first point, I will ask

      To the second point I will argue that without copyright, everything looks like a BSD license or public - that is, a "here's the code, do whatever you want with it" license - so why don't people just use the BSD license? It's precisely because the authors of GPL software want to put restrictions on how people use their stuff.

      Addressing the first point is another gigantic discussion, but the quick version goes something like this: if you don't pay people to do stuff, it won't get done once people have to start doing other things to pay the bills.

    8. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 0

      The subject is copyright infringement. This thread is full of people who are in favor of strong copyright law when it comes to protecting GPL'd (and thus copyrighted) software from being used in a manner that violates the terms of the copyright. What I don't understand is where these people are when a story gets posted about copyrighted music being used in a manner that violates the musicians' copyrights. You can't have it both ways - if you support no copyright for musicians, you get no copyright for software. The same people on this thread should be over in the music piracy threads railing against people who torrent music and movies, because it's the same issue. But they never are, it's just me burning through all of my karma pointing out facts like this.

    9. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      What he is getting at is Copy Left is an illusion, it doesn't actually exist. It is wholly depended on the existence of Copy Right.

    10. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      I more or less agree with everything you've said but your original comment was a bit ambiguous. I read your comment talking more to the fact that Copy Left isn't real and it is just being creative with Copy Right.

    11. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Homburg · · Score: 1

      If the pro-sharing groups believe it's okay for their group to restrict how someone uses their information by requiring distribution of source for derivative works (i.e. copyleft/GPL), they *have* to be okay with a different group restricting how someone uses their information by prohibiting redistribution or derivative works entirely without licensing/royalties (i.e. traditional copyright).

      No they don't. If people believe that information should be shared, it's perfectly consistent to support uses of copyright law that require sharing, while opposing uses of copyright law that don't require sharing.

    12. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by anyGould · · Score: 1

      To the second point I will argue that without copyright, everything looks like a BSD license or public - that is, a "here's the code, do whatever you want with it" license - so why don't people just use the BSD license? It's precisely because the authors of GPL software want to put restrictions on how people use their stuff.

      That's true, but only in a very narrow sense. BSD is "freer" (less restrictions), but I believe it's more open to abuse - specifically, the kinds of abuse you see when people try to cheat around the GPL. Specifically, these cases where companies take the free code, stuff it in a box, tweak a line or two and magically lock it back down again. The reason I prefer GPL to BSD is simple - just because *I* don't want to make money from my code doesn't mean I'm OK with *you* making money from my code. GPL says "I'm giving this to you for free, because I'm nice - all I ask is that you do the same". It doesn't even prevent you from paying me for a "full rights" version that you can tweak and lock down. But if you don't want to pay for it, you can't make others pay for it.

    13. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      If people believe that information should be shared, it's perfectly consistent to support uses of copyright law that require sharing, while opposing uses of copyright law that don't require sharing.

      If people believe that information must be shared, as the GPL requires, then they implicitly believe that information should be allowed to be restricted in how its used. You can't require sharing without also requiring restriction. Why is the must-share restriction better than the don't-share restriction? That's the inconsistency.

      You're just arguing that sharing is better than not sharing. That's a perfectly legitimate argument to make, but it's also a completely different discussion. Consistency in copyright enforcement (or lack thereof) was the point of my original post.

    14. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      You're thinking too black and white. Consider copyright violation as broadly belonging to three classes. The first, perhaps we can call "surprise sharing". That's the pirate bay sort of thing, you download a copy for your own use. Or you take a CD to a friends house and install the game on their machine, plus a no-cd crack. So, some on Slashdot might think that's perfectly OK, and some might say "Well, that's not OK but it's not a serious case of copyright violation". Both of those groups object to the multi-million dollar judgments against these people. The second case we can call actual piracy, the way the word has been used for centuries by authors and playwrights: This is when you are making unauthorized copies/editions and selling them without paying royalties. So that's when you have a guy selling burnt copies of movies and music on the street corner for $10 a pop. That's when you have music labels publishing compilation albums without paying for permission to do so. It's not hypocrisy to consider this case to be worse than the first. In one case, you are "sharing", even though perhaps that's not the right thing to be doing. And certainly P2P is much more large-scale than taking a CD to a friend's house so you might also make a distinction there. But certainly profiting off it is worse than non-profit sharing, even if neither situation is very desirable from the authors point of view? I mentioned three classes. The third is, in my opinion, the worst. This is when instead of writing your own program, you take source code from somebody else's, and you just strip their name off and put your own. Maybe you change it, maybe you don't. Either way, it's not just copyright violation (possibly/probably for profit), it's also plagiarism. GPL violations fall into the last two cases, typically. You have somebody who's selling software that uses the GPL, but they're not following the license, or you have somebody selling software that secretly uses GPL'd software, but they've stripped all the identifications out. I assert that there's no cognitive dissonance involved in saying that either case is worse than sharing games on TPB. Now, if you're saying that torrenting is A-OK but GPL violations are very bad, well, then that's a bit of hypocrisy I'd agree. But I think you'll find that a lot of the "pro" piracy posts are not so much saying "Pirated copies want to be free" as they are "Isn't a million or $200,000 or whatever a bit steep?" Especially when companies who are doing number two or number three aren't even getting fines that big. It's certainly reasonable to say "I don't think the fine should be so large for no-charge piracy" and also say "I think the GPL should be enforced". Especially since they're typically asking for the code to be shared, not for billion dollar fines.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    15. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Well no... that's kind of missing the point as well. The GPL places absolutely no restrictions on somebody charging for a product that includes GPL code. Just because you don't want to get paid doesn't mean I'm not allowed to use your GPL code in something I build and get paid for. What the GPL does do is require me to release the code that I modified. In essence this would prevent me from making a business selling GPL'd software on its own (since it's freely available anyhow), but it *should* encourage me to use your GPL'd code as a component of something else that I'm selling. On top of that, if I need to adapt your code to work in my project, any of those changes will be available back to the community. Most successful GPL projects have money involved one way or another - whether through support or sales of a larger package (hardware, software, whatever).

      --
      +1 Disagree
    16. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      The GPL requires Copyright to be enforceable. We all know this.

      PS I think you'd find if you looked that those pushing for pro-privacy are not the same users pushing the GPL's enforceability. They're both geek topics, but they don't necessarily overlap as much as you assume.

      I'm pro-Copyright within limits (125 years is stupid) and I believe authors should be compensated if that is their desire.

      I buy my games and movies when I don't rent, and I use Netflix, not Youtube to watch shows online.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    17. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Greyfox · · Score: 1
      I don't usually have the energy for either. This argument is pretty tired after all these years. It hasn't changed that much. I'm happy to live my example. I may theoretically go to a movie but usually don't. Though that has less to do with me not liking the *AA's politics and more with me being sick of them trying to spoon feed me shit at the theater. I may also theoretically buy an album from an MP3 service and I have done a bit of that lately, generally in the "International" section. I recently picked up a sitar performance of some public domain music. Hopefully some of the money actually made it back to the performers in question. I'm pretty sure none of that went to the RIAA (It was pretty cheap for an hour's worth of music too, even if some guy's cellphone goes off in the background about 10 minutes in.)

      I may be willing to live by their rules, but probably not in the way they think I will. My stance on software piracy is similarly "buy it or use open source." If they whine at me about open source not being good enough, I tell them that's what they're paying for then. If you don't want to live by the rules and you get burned, I really have no sympathy.

      I've also started making little bits of software available, since Github makes it so easy. I have about as much sympathy for a corporation that wants to pirate from me as I do for a person who wants to pirate from a corporation. The corporations pretty much made these rules what they are today, so it's always funny to watch one trying to weasel out of having to abide by them.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    18. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by anyGould · · Score: 1

      True, you can charge for GPLed code. But as you note, you're usually really paying for hardware or support since you can't differentiate on the software.

    19. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      You take the meaning of "restrictions" to contradictory extremes. You might as well say that because you aren't allowed to enslave, imprison, or kill another person, you are being restricted. You are also restricted from leaping a tall building in a single bound, or violating the laws of thermodynamics, or any of infinitely many other acts that are impossible. How can anyone who is in favor of freedom not be in favor of allowing you the freedom to enslave someone? A similar argument was commonly used by the pro slavery faction prior to the US Civil War, whenever a new state was being admitted and they had to decide whether it was to be a slave state or a free state. The pro slavery side disingenuously held that a slave owner ought to have the right to bring slaves with him to free states without them being freed. The owner could even go so far as to demand that the state exert itself to maintain this "freedom", for instance by hunting down, capturing, and returning runaways. If the free states had accepted such arguments, they would have effectively become slave states, as the pro slavery side knew full well.

      It also seems you are trying to make us out as a bunch of hypocrites. Your arguments are weak, as you should realize. You're playing word games. Is it truly restriction to restrict what restrictions others may impose? Such wording is not a good way to capture the concept. It ignores the complementary and opposing nature of such rules. That which is a restriction to one so that another may enjoy the complementary freedom, and so that both are equal in the eyes of the law, should not be thought of as only a restriction, because it is more. It's like the old saw about whether half a glass of water should be considered half empty or half full.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    20. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by MtHuurne · · Score: 1

      Even though I do think copyright itself is a good idea, I often find myself on the "pirate side" of the debate because the content industry is abusing copyright:

      • - copyright extensions have very little to do with promoting the creation of new content, which is what copyright is supposed to be for
      • - calculated damages from piracy are often highly unrealistic (both "piracy is costing the industry X billion per year" press releases and damages in lawsuits)
      • - unnecessary restrictions in content use (unskippable commercials, blocking of format shifting) are enforced via copyright
      • - bad legislation (three strikes, privacy invasion) is being lobbied for by the industry
      • - if I had to choose between abandoning copyright and living in a police state, I'd choose the former (*1)
      • - the industry should put more effort into making the content accessible for a reasonable fee (*2)

      *1: I don't think those are the only two options but it's important to realize that copyright enforcement at all costs would lead us to a very undesirable society.

      *2: There is progress being made here. Nowadays I can buy most music as files without DRM for acceptable prices, although I would like to see more competition (why does Amazon sell songs in fewer EU countries than Apple?). DVD boxes of TV series are now priced at levels where you can consider buying them even if you're going to watch them just once or twice. Streaming video is still hopeless though, nothing like Hulu here yet. Things like football (soccer) matches are available for paid live streaming now, but at 6 euros a match I'm not going to order it unless I want to see that match really bad. Since ad-supported matches on TV can be profitable, then either my semi-attention for ~15 minutes of ads is worth 6 euros or the streaming price is not based costs.

      Many articles about copyright are about copyright abuses. I could post every time that while I am against copyright abuse I do think copyright in general should be respected, but like Greyfox said, I don't have the energy for it.

    21. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      ...or any of infinitely many other acts that are impossible.

      I don't think I need to address this, as your examples are clearly outside of the realm of this discussion. I am having a discussion about restrictions that a creator imposes on a piece of IP that he or she has created. I don't know what point you're trying to make with your examples.

      It also seems you are trying to make us out as a bunch of hypocrites.

      Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to do.

      Your arguments are weak, as you should realize. You're playing word games.

      I'm not playing word games.

      Is it truly restriction to restrict what restrictions others may impose?

      Yes.

      Such wording is not a good way to capture the concept. It ignores the complementary and opposing nature of such rules. That which is a restriction to one so that another may enjoy the complementary freedom, and so that both are equal in the eyes of the law, should not be thought of as only a restriction, because it is more.

      No. Just like the converse of a proof is not necessarily true, the converse of "restriction of a restriction" is not a freedom. The GPL restricts what a user can do with the software. He cannot take the software, make a modification to or a derivative work from it - potentially adding value - and protect that added value from being copied by competitors. Instead, he must release the new version to the world. Or not use the GPL software in the first place.

      Look, my entire point is that the GPL requires copyright enforcement. Without copyright, the GPL is invalid and anyone can take the software someone has released, change it, and sell it.

      As I've stated at least two other times in this thread, if you want to argue that the GPL's restriction ("you must share") is better than traditional copyright restrictions ("you must not share"), we can have that discussion. But that's a totally different discussion.

      Let me use a couple examples to illustrate my point again.

      A consistent position for someone to take on this issue is that they believe that both software and music should be in the public domain immediately upon distribution of the first copy. Many people on Slashdot have suggested that such a system is workable (monetarily, for the creator) if the software author/musician were paid before creating the work, on a commission.

      Another consistent position is that both software and music should become public domain after, say, 4 years, but prior to 4 years they are allowed to be subject to whatever license or restrictions the author decides - such restrictions being "you must share", or "you must not share".

      The position in question is: software should be subject to a restriction such as "you must share", but music is public domain. I don't understand why you think this is a consistent position. Please explain.

    22. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      Another example. This clearly illustrates why the GPL is a legitimate restriction, and not a freedom.

      A band writes and records a song. They release the song for free under the GPL. Ten years later, another band wants to cover that song. Their cover is a huge hit, but they are required to release their cover of the song for free due to restrictions in the GPL. They cannot profit from their added value because the GPL restricted them from doing so.

      There are many more nuances here (live performances, the original band may gain in popularity, etc.), but I think that's a pretty good example.

    23. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ten years later, another band wants to cover that song. Their cover is a huge hit, but they are required to release their cover of the song for free due to restrictions in the GPL. They cannot profit from their added value because the GPL restricted them from doing so.

      This is wrong. There is nothing in the GPL preventing you from charging for distribution, whether you wrote it or not.

      The only requirement is that if you distribute the work, you also provide the "source code" either along with your derivative work, or include an offer to provide the source code on demand.

      You aren't obligated to do anything with your own work, only with the work of others. If you don't agree, don't use GPL'd works. It's that simple.

    24. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      And without the GPL, they would have been unable to cover the track FOR FREE

      THe GPL is an enabler; it grants you rights you do not normally have under copyright, in return for you agreeing to perform certain actions. Yes, these actions are restrictions on your behaviour - but they are also actions you could not normally have taken. So you have net gained.

    25. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Which is why it's legally valid. It twists something that restricts sharing into something that encourages sharing.

    26. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      However, people on slashdot are not universally pro-pirate.
      * Many are for more reasonable copyright laws (14/28 years).
      * Many don't view it as a lost sale if the person couldn't afford to purchase the product in the first place. (Yes it is piracy- but with no real damage to the creator. Less damage than libraries (which are legal) in fact..

      There is one huge difference between this case and "piracy". Here, money is involved. AVM sells other people's code for money in a way that violates the license. They're nor merely breaking the law, they're trying to profit from it. And that is, in my opinion, what makes this criminal.

    27. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      The problem is that even if an organization is pro-sharing, the way the GPL accomplishes that is by putting *restrictions* on what you can do with the information/software/etc. that they produce and release. If the pro-sharing groups believe it's okay for their group to restrict how someone uses their information by requiring distribution of source for derivative works (i.e. copyleft/GPL), they *have* to be okay with a different group restricting how someone uses their information by prohibiting redistribution or derivative works entirely without licensing/royalties (i.e. traditional copyright). They are all restrictions.

      This is a non-sequitur, and in fact, completely false. From the pro-sharing viewpoint, sharing is good, not sharing is bad. If you sell modified GPL code, you have to share the source code. Yes, it is a restriction that forces you to share, but from a pro-sharing viewpoint, it's a good restriction, because it forces people to share. But sharing copyrighted works is also good from a pro-sharing viewpoint, simply because it's sharing.

      Pro-sharing is neither the same nor the opposite as pro-copyright. It's orthogonal to it. It's how someone who's against killing can be both against murder, and against the execution of murderers, whereas your point sounds like: "if you support the law that makes murder illegal, you also have to support the law that gives murderers the death penalty." (I admit murder is rather an extreme comparison, but it does make the orthogonality of the issues at hand clear.)

    28. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      If people believe that information should be shared, it's perfectly consistent to support uses of copyright law that require sharing, while opposing uses of copyright law that don't require sharing.

      If people believe that information must be shared, as the GPL requires, then they implicitly believe that information should be allowed to be restricted in how its used. You can't require sharing without also requiring restriction. Why is the must-share restriction better than the don't-share restriction? That's the inconsistency.

      You're just arguing that sharing is better than not sharing. That's a perfectly legitimate argument to make, but it's also a completely different discussion. Consistency in copyright enforcement (or lack thereof) was the point of my original post.

      The bold part is exactly the entire point of the pro-sharing position. If it didn't believe that sharing is better than not sharing, then the hell does it mean if someone believes that information should be shared? Your original post actually suggested that this was not a legitimate point to make, and now you're trying to force pro-sharers into a different standpoint than their own.

      I'm not saying I agree or disagree with anything, I'm just pointing out that it's entirely legitimate for a pro-sharer to be neither completely pro-copyright nor completely anti-copyright. Copyright can be considered good when it helps sharing, and bad when it hurts sharing. Copyright does both.

    29. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      Read my original post again. It is clearly targeted at "information wants to be free" fanatics. They come out in droves on the piracy stories saying that once a musician releases a song, the information is "out there" and can't be locked down, and thus it should be able to be freely passed around. The GPL does not allow this with software either, as much as you or anyone else can argue that it does. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_licences#Restrictions if you still disagree with me.

      I have written a ton of other posts arguing against the "pro-sharers" because I don't think that method works either. Here is a decent one that summarizes my views there: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1654748&cid=32246514

    30. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the information is "out there" and can't be locked down, and thus it should be able to be freely passed around. The GPL does not allow this with software either, as much as you or anyone else can argue that it does.

      You have an interesting view of the universe, if you think that a license which says that *if* you decide to distribute, you must freely pass the software around, somehow disallows you from freely passing it around.

    31. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      the converse of "restriction of a restriction" is not a freedom

      That is not the argument I'm making. There are genuine restrictions that forbid something to everyone. If no one is allowed to, say, be on a particular mountain, that's a real restriction. There may or may not be good reason for it, but whatever the case with that, the restriction is truly a restriction. Then there are things that are both a restriction and a freedom, and you are seeing only the restriction part. And you ARE playing word games to try to force that viewpoint. It's like the parable of the blind men and an elephant, but you keep on insisting it is only the part you have touched. And think again about the "freedom" to enslave people. Such a freedom cannot be applied equally to everyone because the first person to use it takes it away from someone else.

      my entire point is that the GPL requires copyright enforcement. Without copyright, the GPL is invalid

      Moot point. Yes, the GPL needs copyright to work. But without copyright, the GPL is unnecessary. Without copyright, entities could not copy publicly available software and "protect" it by slapping a copyright on it, and then take our work away from us by suing everyone for copyright infringement! That's the sort of thing the GPL is designed to stop. The essence of the GPL is that you shall not forbid the sharing of what was shared with you. And you shall not forbid sharing in a backhanded way either, by making an improvement that makes the original impractical, and then refusing to let anyone else have or make that same improvement, all while claiming that you are not stopping anyone from sharing, because the original is still available. The genius of the GPL is that for so long as there is copyright and the ability to abuse it to steal works from the public, there is copyleft. Every move that strengthens copyright also strengthens copyleft.

      and anyone can take the software someone has released, change it, and sell it.

      You can do all that right now, with software released under the GPL. The GPL explicitly allows sales. All that is required is that you convey the changes to the public.

      You also seem to be unaware that in fact the GPL does NOT require that you share your changes. What it requires is that you share your changes IF you distribute something that is based on those changes. You don't have to distribute. If you want, you can keep your modifications all to yourself, and use them internally.

      You mentioned one way that a world without copyright could work: commissions. I would not want to rely on only that. I'd want every idea out there, so that while creators would always miss out on compensation from some methods, they won't miss out from all. I'm thinking more of multiple patronage systems, with every possible safeguard to limit the potential for corruption. Some funding could be public, through taxes. And some could be through private donations. We'd have dozens of ways for deciding who should receive money. We have a little of this now, in the form of prizes and awards, things like the Nobel Prize, Hugo and Nebula Awards, the X Prizes, Clay Mathematics Institute Millenium Prizes, Topcoder, and so on. They aren't nearly enough.

      It also seems you are trying to make us out as a bunch of hypocrites.

      Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to do.

      You admit it. What's your bitch anyway?

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    32. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      But without copyright, the GPL is unnecessary.

      I disagree completely, and this is my whole point. Without copyright, software authors would not be able to require sharing of derivative works. Someone could take a piece of software, make modifications to it, release it as a commercial product, and not release the changed source code. With copyright in place, the changes are required to be released. The GPL requires copyright enforcement in order to function as a license. What is so hard to understand about this?

      Without copyright, entities could not copy publicly available software and "protect" it by slapping a copyright on it, and then take our work away from us by suing everyone for copyright infringement! That's the sort of thing the GPL is designed to stop.

      Even with copyright, entities cannot do that, simply because the publicly-available software is already publicly available and would be considered prior art (or whatever the copyright equivalent is, I know "prior art" is a patent term). I don't understand why you think the GPL helps in this case.

      And you shall not forbid sharing in a backhanded way either, by making an improvement that makes the original impractical, and then refusing to let anyone else have or make that same improvement, all while claiming that you are not stopping anyone from sharing, because the original is still available.

      Ah, so that's what you're getting at. I don't understand your "makes the original impractical" phrase - please explain. But yes, the GPL forward-propagates its sharing requirement to derivative works, by means of copyright enforcement. Without copyright, the GPL can't do that. Amazingly, I think you just agreed with me.

      Every move that strengthens copyright also strengthens copyleft.

      Yes, you did just agree with me. The contrapositive of that is that every move that weakens copyright also weakens copyleft - specifically, if copyright were weakened as many on Slashdot call for, the GPL would be weakened and would lose its ability to require derivative works to be released for free.

      You can do all that right now, with software released under the GPL. The GPL explicitly allows sales. All that is required is that you convey the changes to the public. You also seem to be unaware that in fact the GPL does NOT require that you share your changes.

      Yes, anyone can do anything in isolation and not tell anyone about it. This is mostly true even of traditionally-copyrighted IP too, but it's uninteresting from an economic standpoint.

    33. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

      I'll try again to explain why the GPL is unnecessary without copyright. I said "make that same improvement" for a reason. Suppose there is no copyright, no GPL, and you don't want to share. Fine, don't share. We'll reverse engineer or reinvent your much vaunted improvement, if we think it worthwhile. We'll probably even improve on it. Without copyright (and without software patents), you have no legal way to stop us from doing that. Also, we can make you wish you had shared. Now, it is easier if you just share it, and that is where the GPL does indeed go a little further. But don't kid yourself that no one else will be able to come up with the same improvements you have, and most definitely don't kid yourself that no one will be able to follow your direction. The main point of the GPL is that you can't use copyright to lock down improvements. Without copyright, you could not do lock downs anyway. It is copyright that enables you to do legal lock downs, and it is copyleft that uses copyright to prevent that.

      I don't understand your "makes the original impractical" phrase

      A change that genuinely improves software makes the original second rate, does it not? If the change did not do that, then it isn't an improvement. The original is still perfectly usable of course. But it is now obsolete. That's what I mean by impractical. You could take a team of horses and wagons from the Mississippi to the West Coast on the old Oregon Trail. But it is utterly impractical to spend months doing that when you could make that trip in hours with a car or a plane. Now, improvements to software are usually not that severe, and the original is still good enough to be useful. For instance, the ancient compress utility does not compress as well as gzip, but it is not orders of magnitude worse. It is better in one respect. Compress is a little faster than gzip. Yet to continue using compress comes with a cost, puts you at a disadvantage. You will need a little more hard drive space, a little more time to transmit compressed data over a network. A little disadvantage can be enough to sink a business. Not good for the economy or fair to you if the original is your work, and someone else improves on that and then has and employs legal means to forbid you from making the same improvements.

      anyone can do anything in isolation and not tell anyone about it.

      But in the case of GPL software, you can tell the world about it. And no one will have any legal recourse, so long as you don't distribute.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    34. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      Fine, don't share. We'll reverse engineer or reinvent your much vaunted improvement, if we think it worthwhile. We'll probably even improve on it.

      Ah, see you're cheating. Making improvements is not free. It costs time and/or money. Without copyright (and thus without the GPL sharing restriction), if you want to make the same improvements, you have to spend some time and/or money too. Meanwhile, while you are doing that, I'm selling my improved version for profit.

      Without copyright and the GPL, I will make you spend the time/money to reinvent it. Yes, this is not great for a utopian, communist society where the benefit of improvements should be had by all immediately at zero cost, but it certainly works better in a capitalist society. If the improvements are good enough that people will buy my product over competitors' products even for 6 months, that's huge.

      Now, maybe you're smarter than me so it will take you less time. And it certainly is easier to do something once someone else has done it first, even without source. But required sharing means it takes you no time and no money, so I gain no competitive advantage over you from making the improvements. Effectively, the GPL restricts me from gaining competitive advantage over you.

      If you go back to the original article, Company A makes a router with Linux-based routing tools on it, under the GPL. Company B improves the software and wants to sell the improved version for profit. Company A says "no you can't do that, you have to give us the software fore free because of the GPL". Company A probably wants to include the improved software on a new version of the router, so that they can charge a premium for the new version. And sadly for Company B, Company A is in the right, because of the GPL and copyright. Company B invested time and money in its improved software, but (barring time for this thing to get through the courts) Company A is just going to take their improvement for zero time and zero money, and Company B is going to be out its initial investment.

    35. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by Homburg · · Score: 1

      Why is the must-share restriction better than the don't-share restriction? That's the inconsistency.

      Because sharing is better than not sharing. There's no inconsistency. If someone thinks that the best situation would be one in which sharing was enforced in all cases, it's perfectly consistent for them to both advocate a legal framework that enforces sharing in some cases (the GPL), and to condemn legal situations that prevent sharing (restrictive copyright licenses). The position you are calling inconsistent just says "we think some restrictions are good and should be enforced, and other restrictions are bad and should not be enforced." Treating different things differently isn't inconsistent.

    36. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      If there were such separate legal frameworks, then it would be consistent. But the framework that prevents sharing (copyright) is the same one that enforces sharing (the GPL, or, copyright). You can't argue for relaxed copyright when it comes to music and movies, but strong copyright when it comes to software. Many people on Slashdot argue for the elimination of copyrights for the former. Maybe those aren't the same people that argue for strong copyright for software, or maybe the pro-software-copyright people are for a reduction in length of copyright term (which is certainly reasonable), or some other non-extreme/moderate position. But please read my original post again.

    37. Re:Copyright enforcement on Slashdot? by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 1

      This story is precisely what I'm talking about.

  13. It seems strange that they would care by 91degrees · · Score: 0

    Why does AVM want to prevent this behaviour? It seems, if anything, Cybits is simply adding value to the router. AVM presumably makes money selling the routers. If people want to modify them or use them as door stops for that matter, what difference does it make to the company?

    All very odd.

    1. Re:It seems strange that they would care by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      1. They want to provide a device which does this, and the software competes. There are several FritzBoxes which fill different niches, and AVM occasionally bring out new ones with specific features. They are actually quite cool little Linux boxes, lots of hacks for them.
      2. Support costs.

      --
      Deleted
    2. Re:It seems strange that they would care by mcvos · · Score: 1

      1. They want to provide a device which does this, and the software competes. There are several FritzBoxes which fill different niches, and AVM occasionally bring out new ones with specific features. They are actually quite cool little Linux boxes, lots of hacks for them.

      Are FritzBoxes from AVM? And there's hacks and third-party software for them? I need to check that out. I have a FritzBox, but never really looked into any of that.

  14. No distribution == no copywrite violation by erice · · Score: 1

    This doesn't even make sense without the GPL. Even if AVM owned the copyright to all code, it doesn't by itself prevent users from adding new code in place. It's as if the author of a book sued to prevent purchasers from the writing in the margins of their own copy.

    Unless German copyright law is very different from US law, there must be a clause in the license that TFA fails to mention. This clause presumably disallows consumers from making modifications to the software. Since the GPL is involved, this license could only apply to the code owned entirely by AVM that is not part of a larger GPL unit.

    1. Re:No distribution == no copywrite violation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where this becomes a real test of the GPL is due to the fact that a vast majority of the product, including the part being modifed by third parties for profit, was released under the GPL. AVM is trying to prohibit 3rd party folks from re-writing the GPL'd software for their own purposes and using that modified software on devices that an end-consumer owns outright.

      If there was a proprietary software module developed from scratch by AVM that was an issue here, perhaps it would be a more straight-forward copyright claim with proprietary software at stake. The issue at hand, however, is the modification of stuff that had been previously GPL'd and the hope that AVM has is that the court will in effect rule that the GPL no longer applies to the software because it was free in the first place and therefore a "public good" that copyright no longer applies to.

      Perhaps that is the case, and an interesting legal theory that would blow the GPL out of the water. It wouldn't stop people from contributing to projects like Linux, but it could open the door for GPL'd software to be essentially treated as if it was completely in the public domain. The problem is that GPL'd software is not in the public domain.

  15. Companies don't like paying by iplayfast · · Score: 2

    It amazes me that companies feel justified in not paying for their software. The GPL's payment is in openness and code changes. So many companies try this (and get away with it). It would be similar to companies using cracked warze and then trying to justify it in court as their own works.

    1. Re:Companies don't like paying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would this amaze you?

      how many people like paying for stuff? I'm going to say very, very few. Close to zero few. There are lots that are willing, but don't necessarily like it.

      Companies are run by people. Thus, they are unlikely to like paying for stuff. Most may be willing, but because companies shield (in whole or in part) individuals from the consequences of their actions they are more likely to heed desire than ethics.

    2. Re:Companies don't like paying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed it's shocking.

      It's like:
      Corporations: we need to sell a product but lack the software stack for it.
      FOSS: Use our software!
      Corporations: But we can't afford one to spend one dime on non-lawyers.
      FOSS: It's okay, it's free! Just don't be a massive dickhole.
      Corporations: Gee, you're asking too much!

  16. The "Compilation Argument" by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Of all these, I think the compilation argument is an interesting one and merits watching. It could have interesting results on other things based on open licenses such as Linux distributions and other devices based on Linux.

    I don't think I will roll out a complete comment on this just now. I will instead ponder the notion of thinking of all these computer programs as components and calling this a compilation which is "protected."

    There are many things that cause this to fall apart such as the individual licenses of the components themselves and the distribution rights associated with them. But, it's the end of my day and I want to go home...

    1. Re:The "Compilation Argument" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  17. Right to sue? by roguegramma · · Score: 2

    I think the case hinges on the right to sue of the parties.

    A contributor to the GPL'ed software would have the right to sue.

    The defendant, Mr. Welte, might not have the right to sue AVM to put their code under the GPL, but luckily he is the defendant.

    AVM is the plaintiff. They have admitted that their released work is a mix of their original work and GPL'ed work. In my opinion they still may assert their copyright for their contributions, but do not actually have the right to distribute their work.

    That is why I think the defendants primary cause, although I'm sympathetic to the defendant, is lost.

    However as a countermove, (I'm assuming the defendant owns an AVM router), I suggest he countersues AVM for damages, since they set him up with a router that cannot be operated legally since they don't own the rights to the software, and for wasting his time he spent coding in good faith that AVM actually intends to secure the rights to the software, which is hard to do without GPL'ing the software.

    IANAL, and not yours.

    --
    Hey don't blame me, IANAB
    1. Re:Right to sue? by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      A contributor to the GPL'ed software would have the right to sue.

      Which Mr. Welte is. He wrote part of iptables, if I'm not mistaken.

      The defendant, Mr. Welte, might not have the right to sue AVM to put their code under the GPL, but luckily he is the defendant.

      He is not. He is not working or representing Cybits, the company sued by AVM.
      But he entered the dispute as someone who owns (part) of the copyright of the product in question.

  18. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, you're still stalking people, Alexander Peter Kowalski? You make /. celebrities like twitter look mentally stable, go get help.
    And delete that 200MB hosts file.

  19. test the GPL? by twistedcubic · · Score: 1

    Could we stop saying "test the GPL"? If the GPL does not hold, then copyrights and contracts don't hold. You can't kill the GPL without killing more onerous EULAs, and as we all know, that will never happen.

    1. Re:test the GPL? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      You seem to hold the antiquated ideal of rule of law. Laws aren't made as inflexible as you seem to portray any more. There are many rules that can be flexed and others that can be out right broken without consequence. You just have to know the right people and have the right friends in government.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    2. Re:test the GPL? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it may have escaped your attention that the only thing that is granting any privileges to copy GPL'd works at all is the text of the GPL itself. Even if the GPL is invalid, standard copyright law is still applicable, and people still need explicit permission of the copyright holder (which is what the GPL is supposed to do).

    3. Re:test the GPL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I is an old, old concept:
      Britania rules the waves.
      vs
      Britania waves the rules.

    4. Re:test the GPL? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      you seem to speak with things like "any privileges" or "explicit permission" where, if it was for the good of the people these things could be flexed a bit.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    5. Re:test the GPL? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      This implies that you advocate the abolition of the current concept of copyright law (literally, the "right to copy")... which, if not exclusive, is no longer valuable.

      Of course, copyright itself is no longer that valuable anyways, considering the epidemic numbers of people that disregard it simply because they can.

    6. Re:test the GPL? by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      This being Germany, in case if AVM wins I would urge all original authors of the software AVM uses to assert their moral rights to attribution. And file a lawsuit to force AVM to send out all equipment owners attribution notices.

    7. Re:test the GPL? by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      You keep failing to get the GP's point, he is not advocating anything. Judiciary decisions aren't always logical, or clear, even when the law is logical and clear. Sometimes the decisions favor a contrived interpretation that lets the people with more money act freely, while the ones with less money are restricted. Other times the oposite happens, but then, it is just a matter of the part with more money not having money enough...

    8. Re:test the GPL? by mark-t · · Score: 1
      I think the verb you meant to use was "waives".

      (mod -1 grammar nazi)

    9. Re:test the GPL? by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1

      You can't kill the GPL without killing more onerous EULAs, and as we all know, that will never happen.

      Well the case is in Germany and EULAs in their usual forms are already not legal there. In Germany after the sale has been completed you can normally not add further conditions to the contract.

      The GPL is in a better position there since it grants further rights and that should be perfectly legal.

    10. Re:test the GPL? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      I believe EULAs have been killed in several countries.

    11. Re:test the GPL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe EULAs have been killed in several countries.

      Yep. Over 500,000 EULAs have died in Iraq alone, but some humanitarian groups estimate the number is even higher.

  20. Not a test of the GPL by Xtifr · · Score: 1

    This is not a test of the GPL! It's simply a test of copyright law, and, in particular, the boundaries of the definition of "derivative work".

    If I were an author, and gave a publisher permission to publish a story I wrote, unmodified, they would be free to publish it in a collection with other stories by other authors, but not free to modify huge chunks of it. But, what if they got another author to write stuff that was inserted between key paragraphs of my story? My story is unmodified, in the sense that every word appears unchanged and in the correct order, but the result is still clearly not my story. So, the issue is: where is the boundary between compilation and derivative? The question here is not "are they violating the GPL?", but "are they violating copyright law?"

  21. Re:Lawyers by royallthefourth · · Score: 1

    They're on the side of whoever has the money to pay them (most of the time), and I'm willing to bet those are not the good guys.

  22. This case does not make a lot of sense by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    A more clear summary than the long-winded summary up top is this:

    Company A makes a widget based on GPL code.
    Company B makes code that you can buy and run on the widget, changing it's function
    Company A is suing company B to stop them claiming copyright violation

    There are multiple weird things about this case that I am very unclear on.

    - Does company B's distributed code even contain any code from Company A? If it doesn't, and it is literally just code that gets injected into the router, then it is not a copyright violation in the first place. Not a GPL issue *at all*.

    - If it *does* contain code from company A, based on their GPL code, then it's a GPL issue. However, none of Company A's arguments make any sense in that case.

    - Finally, why does company A care about this in the least?

    1. Re:This case does not make a lot of sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A guess:

      Company B sells the added feature for $x (and x might be zero)
      Company A has another product for >x more than this prodct that has this feature.

      In other words, they A feels B is using their own product to enter the market. No clue if it's the case, but I imagine it could be.

    2. Re:This case does not make a lot of sense by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Company A has another product for >x more than this prodct that has this feature.

      More likely, Company A sees that Company B has released something that adds value to their product, and wants to monetize it themselves.

    3. Re:This case does not make a lot of sense by tepples · · Score: 1

      As I understand the article, the widget contains an aggregate (v3) or aggregation (v2) of both GPL code and company A's non-free code that run in separate processes, and company A is trying to claim compilation copyright on the aggregate.

  23. FSF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FSF refused to review my code and issue me a "certificate of no GPL code." If you are throwing-out FUD, you have an obligation to issue certificates on request.

    Microsoft should issue certificates of no viruses.

    1. Re:FSF by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      The FSF refused to review my code and issue me a "certificate of no GPL code."

      The FSF is not the only group that writes GPL code.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    2. Re:FSF by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      Because it is your legal responsibility to undertake such reviews yourself. Not the FSF

  24. Compilations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This would mean the contents of my mp3 player are a compilation, and not subject to copyright, right? ...Right?

  25. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If it ever seems like the entire world is against you, take that for truth, and realize that you engender ill will in others. There is no collusion, you're obviously deranged, and everyone will continue to reject you. Every man is the hero of his own story, ay, but you make yourself a villain by attacking others, even as you claim to be attacked.

    You're sick, man. These are not the actions of a sane adult. You need serious mental help. I can't imagine you'll listen to this -- none so deaf as he who will not hear.

  26. all true, and utterly irrelevant... by t2t10 · · Score: 1

    Yes, they have copyrights on the compilation. But they have to respect the rights of the Linux copyright holders, and those rights say "you can only distribute the software under these conditions".

    So, if they want to distribute, they have to allow modification. If they don't allow modification, they can enjoy their own copyright in the privacy of their own home, but they can't distribute the compilation without violating someone else's copyright.

  27. How can they possibly expect to get away with this by sribe · · Score: 1

    The final argument by AVM was that the software on their DSL terminals is a composition of several different programs, which, due to the creative process, would be a protected compilation and thus under the copyright of AVM and not affected by the copyleft of the GPL.

    Which means they're back to a derivative work ;-)

  28. Licenses by return+42 · · Score: 1

    They seem to be confusing the GPL with the BSD license or the public domain. If they ignore the GPL, nothing else lets them use the GPL-licensed code, so they have to take it out. Schnell!

    1. Re:Licenses by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Well, they can always *USE* it... they just can't legally copy it.

    2. Re:Licenses by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Well, they can always *USE* it... they just can't legally copy it.

      And by "copy it", we really mean "distribute it". Yes, AVM can continue to use the Linux kernel on every little widget it uses inside its own facilities and processes. But it can't convey one copy in a product sold to a customer, because redistribution in a product is a form of "copying", and copying triggers the obligation to release source and permit modifications.

      Interesting. This is a legal attack on the practical usability of Free Software in commercial products, kind of like how Tivoization was a technical/cryptographic attack. The manufacturer is, in both cases, are saying "Although others own the copyright on some of the components we use, we assert definitive control on the overall package embodied in our device"... and it's just how they end their sentences that differ. In Tivo's case, they end with "and we impose hardware/software signing to prevent you from changing the device", whereas AVM is saying "and we will sue you under our compilation copyright to prevent you from changing the device."

      Once upon a time, I thought the anti-Tivoization clause of the GPL v3 was overkill; now I'm not sure it goes far enough in preventing the creation of barb-wired fenced gardens full of frozen GPL software. How useful are your software freedoms if you can't exercise them?

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    3. Re:Licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I always wonder why companies chose GNU/Linux when *BSD is functionally equivalent and lets them lock down their devices without any legal hassle.

    4. Re:Licenses by mark-t · · Score: 1

      "Although others own the copyright on some of the components we use, we assert definitive control on the overall package embodied in our device"

      Which is incompatible with the GPL and thus by their actions, they are openly admitting that they do not have permission from the copyright holder to copy the work. Commercially distributing a copyrighted work that you don't have permission to copy in the first place is generally seen as a Bad Thing.

      The only way one can take AVM's side in this is if they advocate the abolition of copyright entirely.

    5. Re:Licenses by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Also...

      And by "copy it", we really mean "distribute it"

      Maybe you mean that... it's not what copyright says though, and not what I meant either. By "copy" I meant "copy". The catch is really for what purpose the copy is being made... distribution is largely irrelevant, except to the extent that it can be a purpose one has for making a copy and is generally deemed as sufficient evidence to convict for copyright infringement if one does not have permission from the copyright holder to have made copies for that purpose in the first place.

      Copying and modifying GPL stuff for your own use is compatible with the terms of the GPL, so you *CAN* copy it for that purpose, even if you don't agree with the rest of the GPL.

    6. Re:Licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the point was that they could use, just not distribute.

    7. Re:Licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And by "copy it", we really mean "distribute it"

      Maybe you mean that... it's not what copyright says though, and not what I meant either. By "copy" I meant "copy". The catch is really for what purpose the copy is being made...

      Well, the key here is the premise that you "ignore the GPL." That doesn't matter; it's the author who picks the license, ergo the permissions of the GPL apply to you whether you ignore them or not.

      So, effectively, you can use and copy GPL'd code without any obligation. True, copyright law doesn't normally let you do this, but if it's under GPL you can copy it all you want for yourself.

    8. Re:Licenses by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Actually, copyright law *DOES* normally let you do that... as long as you have permission from the copyright holder. The GPL, therefore, is nothing less or more than evidence that the copyright holder has given permission to do the things it describes.

    9. Re:Licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I should have said copyright law by *default* doesn't let you do this.

  29. Re:Lawyers by asdf7890 · · Score: 1

    Most of the ones on the good side would be equally happy being paid to work for the other side.

    Not exactly immoral, but more often than not amoral.
    (which is generally their job: to ensure that things are legally correct by some technical definition of legal irrespective of wishy-washy complications like morality)

  30. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

    The saddest part is, I knew it was APK as soon as I saw the formatting. No need to actually read the post.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
  31. Re:Lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, same with those dentists. I just hate them! Always on the side of people with bad teeth ... and money ...

  32. Re:Lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. Next thing you know, people are going to say there's nothing wrong with contract killers. "After all, you can hire them to take out crooks." ...

  33. Not a lot of arguing w/ documented facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  34. Thanks. by roguegramma · · Score: 1

    Thanks, I didn't know that.

    --
    Hey don't blame me, IANAB
  35. Thanks, but still he cannot force them do GPL it by roguegramma · · Score: 1

    Thanks, I didn't figure that out from the summary.

    I still think he cannot force them to release their code under the GPL. They can just say "no", and then he has the right to sue them and will win, making them pay damages and making them stop distributing their product.

    Of course, the threat of this might convince them, as it usually does in GPL cases.

    IANAL, and not yours.

    --
    Hey don't blame me, IANAB
  36. It's pretty simple... by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 1

    ... if you want the damn code proprietary, then write the damn thing yourself. Why is this so hard to understand? People that whine about "Well, I wrote part X as a modification of GPL project Y, so why am I forced to use GPL on X!" The answer is simple, because you based your work on GPL! If you don't want to use GPL, then avoid GPL!

    Yes, the issue can be made much more complex. But at the end of the day, this "problem" hasn't changed, and it's not that complicated. Microsoft figured it out and they also release some GPL code, yet nobody is going after the Windows codebase, now are they? NOT... THAT... HARD...

    --
    I8-D
  37. Weakest links by BlueCoder · · Score: 1

    With open source code as pervasive as it is it's all to easy for a coder at a company to cheat and plagiarize. Maybe even sabotage his own company. Courts would need to look at the amount of code involved and determine if the company in question had reasonable knowledge of infringement. Damage? The answer is we need a clear decision as far as disclosure from companies when something like this happens. More or less depending upon the amount of code in question they must be forced for reply to a cease and desist letter and as quickly as possible and stop using infringing code as reasonably as possible. Failure to comply resulting in liability for actual damages to the tune of an estimate determined by the court for what it would cost to redevelop the code plus punitive damages..

    As far as the GPL itself we have the static vs dynamic vs bundling issues. It's all just philosophical when we talk about software. To over-simply, linking is all just a concept controlled by compiler flags. At the end of the day we are only talking about how the bits are ordered on media. And for files on the internet you don't even have media. I think it would be all too easy for the courts to decide it's not clear and in effect rule the GPL to effectively become LGPL. I'm not even positive one could even write a legal definition of static vs dynamic linking except by abandoning the concepts for more concrete ones. I actually really want to see it go before SCOTUS and have lawyers try to explain pointers and addresses when they don't even understand it themselves. Then define execution. You will literally need to give them honorary degrees in "Computer Science" after the case.

    1. Re:Weakest links by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      "I actually really want to see it go before SCOTUS and have lawyers try to explain pointers and addresses when they don't even understand it themselves. Then define execution."

      They were just recently discussing turing-completeness there (because of software patents), right untill they dismissed the entire concept as not a real thing...

    2. Re:Weakest links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually really want to see it go before SCOTUS and have lawyers try to explain pointers and addresses when they don't even understand it themselves.

      What is SCOTUS?

    3. Re:Weakest links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is SCOTUS?

      Here, Let me Google that for you.

  38. Re:Thanks, but still he cannot force them do GPL i by anyGould · · Score: 2

    I still think he cannot force them to release their code under the GPL. They can just say "no", and then he has the right to sue them and will win, making them pay damages and making them stop distributing their product.

    I think the logic is thusly:

    The gadget is either using GPLed code under a valid license (which means they can't prevent others from modifying it, thus they lose), or they are not using it under a valid license (which means that they're vulnerable to infringement claims themselves, and depending on exactly which bits were being modified, they might not have standing to protest in the first place).

  39. Re:Thanks, but still he cannot force them do GPL i by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    I still think he cannot force them to release their code under the GPL. They can just say "no", and then he has the right to sue them and will win, making them pay damages and making them stop distributing their product.

    It is an interesting situation. Mr. Welte cannot force AVM to do something, but he can quite clearly tell them "if you do what you intend to do then you are committing copyright infringement" with the consequence that AVM might be in for some serious consequences.

    Actually, I think at this point AVM has already been distributing the software in violation of the GPL terms. So the GPL license doesn't apply here anymore. So the fact is: AVM took some copyrighted code that they have no right to distribute, modified and hopefully improved it, distributed it, and claim to have rights in the resulting code. So what legal rights, if any, do they have in the code? How would the situation be different if the copyrighted code was some code stolen from Microsoft, or some code they could legally distribute after paying a million dollars which they didn't?

    It would be reasonable to say in my opinion that the third party, Cybits here, should have the same rights as if AVM had acted in a way that didn't involve copyright infringement. So in the case of GPL'd software, Cybits should stand as if AVM hadn't breached the GPL license. If AVM had stolen Microsoft code, then Cybits should stand as if AVM hadn't stolen the code, so there would be no router software that Cybits could modify.

  40. It is more subtle than you think by feenberg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    According to the article, the defendent is not distributing code containing GPL code. Rather, they are distributing a program that reads from a DSL router and modifies the (perfectly legal) GPL code on the router, reinstalling the modified code. The defendent doesn't think this is a violation, since he does not distribute any GPL code to users, only the binary "diffs". The modified code is never "distributed", only installed on the individuals own router. Since the GPL limits distribution, but doesn't affect "internal" use, there is an argument that the GPL is not violated. However, there is a further section in the GPL that takes up just this point, which is quite orthogonal to any of the arguments posted here. Even if this section of the GPL was not enforced in Germany, it wouldn't be the end of the GPL, as this is an extremely inconvinient way to distribute software, and the liklihood that the "diffs" didn't include GPL code is very small.

    1. Re:It is more subtle than you think by InfinityMinusOne · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you are reading the article correctly? From what I gather from the article, the issue is not whether the defendant is in compliance with the GPL, but whether the plaintiff is. The defendants defense is that in order to comply with the GPL, the plaintiff should allow the defendants code modifications.

    2. Re:It is more subtle than you think by stiggle · · Score: 1

      The GPL version relating to this is v2 (as linked at the bottom of the article).
      This version of the GPL does NOT enforce recompilation & reinstallation rights - brought in to v3 to counter TiVOisation - as TiVO, Humax, and other PVR manufacturers would rather you didn't mess about with the firmware and do everything possible to stop you.

      Does the GPL allow you to modify the compiled binaries - or just distribution of the source?
      Does Cybits then have to distribute the source for the modified version of the final binary as they modified it or as its a AVM compiled binary is AVM liable for distribution?

      Cybits would have done better if they'd just released a complete firmware like OpenWRT rather than patching a firmware binary to merge in their changes.

    3. Re:It is more subtle than you think by InfinityMinusOne · · Score: 1

      That would be a potential response from the plaintiff (AVW) to the defendants (Cybits) defense, basically 'we can comply with the GPL and still forbid you to modify our code under normal copyright law'. From the article, I gather the plaintiff did not use this response, for whatever reason. In any case, I think the article is not whether Cybit is in compliance with the GPL (as the grandparent post assumed), but about whether AVW is in compliance with the GPL, and whether they have to allow Cybits actions in order to remain in compliance with the GPL. Your reasoning weighs in on the side of 'AVW does not have to allow Cybits actions in order to remain in compliance with the GPL', and apparently the FSF is arguing the other side, but its still the same discussion.

  41. they're fighting tooth and nail... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    They're fighting tooth and nail PROBABLY because their code is statically bind to some pieces of GPL code somewhere, and they can't extricate their code without POSSIBLY requiring a full rewrite, an expense they're unwilling to endure. That and it's always bad for business to admit having willfully violated licensing terms.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  42. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone mod this AC up please. I accidentally modded it down.

  43. Re:Lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Why? There's one on the side of the bad guys, and there's on on the side being bullied, and there's one more on the side protecting our rights."

    Which means we end up paying for them three.

    "Seems like 2 out of 3 of the lawyers (or teams of them) are fighting for the cause of the good guys, or fighting against the bad guys at least."

    Or maybe fight for themselves and after the trial they three have an opulent dinner with what we paid them all.

  44. Re:tomhudson's STILL trolling via ac replies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shut the fuck up and leave tomhudson alone APK, while you're at it why don't you use an account like any respectable troll? If you used the one brain cell you likely might have during your stalking you would know that tomhudson is a woman, she even says so in her profile page! It truly is baffling the extent to which you're clearly brain damaged.

  45. Re:tomhudson's STILL trolling via ac replies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shut the fuck up and leave tomhudson alone APK, while you're at it why don't you use an account like any respectable troll? If you used the one brain cell you likely might have during your stalking you would know that tomhudson is a woman, she even says so in her profile page! It truly is baffling the extent to which you're clearly brain damaged.

    if you want to have some fun, mod up tomhudson and mod down APK in their various discussions, even through in a couple of AC replies. watch how riled up APK gets when he thinks its all tomhudson's doing.

  46. What is linked with what is the key bit... by IBitOBear · · Score: 1

    The summary is unclear about a number of things, and the article is not so clear either.

    Say one company takes a stock linux distribution (or makes a tiny distro of GPL/Linux parts) and then adds a special binary that does things like phone-home calculate a IPSec key, and then wake up a VPN using that key. This company is on the hook to distribute all the GPL/Linux bits as source but _not_ the key generating program that is "merely" on the same media. The program could also be, perhaps, a web interface for the device running as scripts or binaries or whatever. As long as the program's in question do no link with (in the software linking loader sense) the GPL bits there is no "taint of GPL" to the added code. (This was the old "the GPL is infectious like a virus argument, which people finally understood as "no its not" 8-).

    Lets say some other company then makes a mod-kit for the device above and either (a) distributes the kit and/or (b) buys up the devices, applies the kit, and re-sells it.

    The second company has no rights to the binary of the first company, but since the first company sold the device in question to either an end user (in case a) or to the second company (in case b), the second company is clear of copyright issues. e.g. they are not making copies of the binary. The first company is not, however, in a position to dispute the second company's action since it isn't making copies of their software, so the second company has no basis to block the second companies actions.

    If the first company's software is linked with the GPL bits (e.g. actually in the kernel, or a modification of the IPSec programs in our example) (and not LGPL bits, but full GPL bits) then the first company has three choices: (1) distribute the source with the binary in a common and accessible format (e.g. CDROM, thumb drive, etc) of (2) agree to make the code available to the recipients of the binary for a minimum period of time, put that in writing, and maybe charge a copying fee or not. If they don't do one of those two things then they are NOT ALLOWED to distribute the resulting program. In both cases the recipient of the source is not under any obligation _NOT_ _TO_ just give the source to everybody at _their_ discretion and expense. That is, company one can safely limit its exposure to follow-on distribution costs by only having to distribute the code to the people who got the binary from them, but they can NOT require that the code they give out is not to be copied on by the recipient.

    In the case above the first company is trying to stop the second company from doing things. First they said "that is one whole system and it's our 'property' so you cannot mess with it." and the second company said "if its all one system then that system is GPLd and we can quite explicitly do any thing we like with it _OR_ you had no right to sell or even give it away in the first place and you are in deep trouble."

    So then the first company said "wait a sec, we mis-spoke. There is all the GPL bits and then there is our program. Our program is ours so you cannot mess with the device." and the second company went on to say "We can mess with the device and all the GPL bits all we want because you sold the device and the GPL bits are GPL. You bits are irrelevant to what we are doing so leave us alone."

    So _now_ the company is trying the "well yea, we did sell the device, and you can mess with GPL bits all you like, but when we put our bits in with the GPL bits we were making an artistic statement a whole and when you mess with the GPL bits you are wrecking our artistic vision."

    The third argument is tricky in that its as if the first company went out and got three peices of music under the GPL and added a fourth that they want to license under different terms. A guy comes in and messes with one or more of the first three, by perhaps substituting in a "dance re-mix" of the the third song. Now the first company says "the second company is messing up our presentation of these for songs as a whole by tweaking

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  47. Re:Lawyers by GNious · · Score: 1

    Easy now - remember, it is just 95% of Lawyers, that gives the rest of them a bad reputation.

  48. You're quite orthognal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "However, there is a further section in the GPL that takes up just this point, which is quite orthogonal to any..."

    Right that's it. Shut your mouth. If you use that word one more time I swear I'll... Orthogonal!? You pretentious wally.

    How about "It challenges..." or "It answers this point..." or "It undermines this point..." or some other use of English which is not daft as a brush.

    If I read just one more article or comment where some fool feels that they can appear smarter than they are by using the word "orthogonal" I will head butt the monitor.

    1. Re:You're quite orthognal... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      "However, there is a further section in the GPL that takes up just this point, which is quite orthogonal to any..."

      Right that's it. Shut your mouth. If you use that word one more time I swear I'll... Orthogonal!? You pretentious wally.

      How about "It challenges..." or "It answers this point..." or "It undermines this point..." or some other use of English which is not daft as a brush.

      Orthogonal doesn't mean any of those things. Orthogonal means it's on a totally different axis. Like a x-axis is orthogonal to the y-axis. Or freedomauthoritarian is orthogonal to economically leftright. And if you mean to say something like that, "orthogonal" is a perfectly valid word to use for it.

      I have no idea what feenberg (the GP) is talking about or whether he's using the word correctly, but elsewhere in this discussion, I've used the word orthogonal to say that being pro-sharing of code doesn't have to mean you're specifically pro- or anti-copyright. That's a perfectly valid way to use the word.

  49. Re:tom h., U & URS don't stop (read all), so by mcvos · · Score: 1

    I don't know what your issue is with Tom Hudson, and I don't want to know, but you're insane, man. Get some help.

    If you can't work this out in a private manner, just drop it. There's no need to behave like an ass in public.

  50. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by mcvos · · Score: 1

    Why would anyone mod this up? It's completely off-topic, with no redeeming value that I can tell.

    You make a good point, though. Instead of posting, I should have modded all of this down.Too late now, I'm afraid.

  51. And the GPL was already tested in Germany by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the GPL was already tested in Germany and passed.

    Then the BSD trolls whined that that wasn't the USA and therefore the GPL still wasn't shown legally applicable.

  52. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    We all seem to have problems with this guy. The very moment you see his posts, I suggest we not respond to his commentary but simply answer something along the lines of "APK detected -- emotionally and/or mentally unstable -- hostile" and say no more. I foolishly had interaction twice.

  53. Form of payment by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

    But the form of payment is openness. And given that the GPL want anyone to profit from it, there is no single entity that has suffered monetary damages. So payment can only be openness.

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    1. Re:Form of payment by znerk · · Score: 1

      But the form of payment is openness. And given that the GPL want anyone to profit from it, there is no single entity that has suffered monetary damages. So payment can only be openness.

      I have heard over and over again that copyright infringement is theft. If that is the case, why can't we just arrest and jail everyone in the company?

      Or can we just make up a magic amount per copy distributed, and charge AVM millions of monetary units for each of the hundreds or thousands of illegal copies they have distributed? Think of all those poor, starving Linux coders!

      Or perhaps we can just sue the living crap out of AVM, forcing them to stop doing business in this particular field, because they failed to understand that "GPL" != "Public Domain".

      Alternatively, we could jail every one of them for a few years, and then forbid them to use "technological devices" ever again, disallowing things as apparently harmless as a touch-tone phone because it "could be used to harm others".

      Yes, this is taking several logical fallacies (or fantasies) to an extreme to make a point. No, I don't think it actually works this way. I just wish it did (a level playing field regardless of personal wealth, not the ridiculous and over-the-top "punishments" I have described - which come from real court cases, in some instances).

      --
      This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
  54. Re:tomhudson's STILL trolling via ac replies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually she's a trans-woman, i.e. a dickless man.

  55. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Wow... just... wow. Google that name and you will see a lengthy history of this guys interactions with others. In all those years, you would think that he would have learned from his mistakes along the way as his internet trail indicates that he makes the same mistakes over and over and over again. Anger, impatience, unreasonable demands and, of course, takes "simple business interactions" far too personally.

    "I have been published" is his least relevant claim and yet he seems to claim it at every available opportunity. The subject is demonstrably obsessive, aggressive but I have yet to see or hear of the subject actually following through on veiled threats of legal action.

    Interestingly, there was certain other discussion on slashdot which put forward the idea that "reason is a weapon" where winning is more important than being right. This characteristic is clearly displayed by the subject. The sooner all of slashdot recognizes the subject for what he is, we can begin to file him away with the "goatse.cx" and "rick rolling" we frequently see here.

  56. Insane, for asking for a "ceasefire/truce"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on - after all, I am not the one who's been stalking & trolling others for a year with an entire gang of people who are admitted trolls! I only "kick it in" again when you guys startup, because apparently, it's all you understand (so trying to speak in terms you understand/reverse psychology)... that doesn't work. You also "get off on trolling" and admit it... come on!

    Besides: The world's got bigger problems than this b.s., and I do believe this can be worked out by an "honorable compromise" to just leave one another be. Can't you all do the same??

    Listen: I know enough about violence & war first hand, it brings nothing but ruin for everyone - nobody wins, ever, not really.

    (Apparently, you guys don't & have never had yourselves shot at or in a streetfight where some stupid sense of pride caused a load of misery... it's not fun, I promise you that!)

    This is no different in a way (not near as bad though), but I do believe it can be stopped. Just by ceasing fire. It's that simple.

    Plus - I have tried this before to no avail with you people... I could keep this up forever you know, messing with you guys too throwing how you operate right back into your faces and embarassing you!

    Easily (and I am much more difficult to track, remember that, AND I can outpost you all easily, damn_registrars found that out too in the link I am about to post as well, thus, I am "at the advantage"...)!

    ---

    Still, here is what I got in another thread where I have:

    "Besides, this AC trolling action would be missed if it were to subside." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @07:57AM (#36510818)

    FROM http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2251620&cid=36512016

    Come on...

    Anyhow/Anyways:

    So, what do you say? Cease all hostilities or what?? Yes or No.

    I say yes, but I want your reply too.

    I know that tomhudson, gmhowell, jeremiah cornelius, and webmistressrachel (the only one who IS reasonable in fact of you all) & possibly damn_registrars (not sure about he though) meet @ "trolltalk.com" on Tuesdays, so run it by all of your people and let's call an end to the madness...

    1. Re:Insane, for asking for a "ceasefire/truce"? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      If you really want to spend your time annoying people, by all means go for it. Just don't expect any sympathy. I have nothing to do with this vendetta you're pursuing, and neither have the vast majority of slashdot users. We would really appreciate it if you were to go fight your private war somewhere else.

    2. Re:Insane, for asking for a "ceasefire/truce"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not the one who's been stalking & trolling others for a year ... I do believe it can be stopped. Just by ceasing fire. It's that simple. ... So, what do you say? Cease all hostilities or what??

      By "cease all hostilities", I assume then you also mean that you'll stop posting your tripe about hosts files and other bizarre shite, since that's essentially what provokes what you seem to think are "hostilities" against you. Oh, and your posting style is hostile to common decency. Lose the single-sentence paragraphs interspersed with gratuitous YELLING, stern bold sections, and excessive punctuation. It's hideous. Take an English course at the local community college or something, and learn to write proper paragraphs and emphasize your point with words rather than all-caps, double punctuation marks, or font-weight.

      However, it's not "hostile" to call a spade a spade, an idiot an idiot, or a troll a troll. You're not a spade; in case you missed that, it's figure of speech. But those other things, yes.

      I am much more difficult to track, remember that, AND I can outpost you all easily

      P.S. I figure someone should warn you... deliberately changing your IP address and/or erasing tracking cookies in order to gain access or post messages on Slashdot's server more often than is allowed and to intentionally circumvent the access controls intended to prevent you from posting may actually be a felony. Are you aware that convicted felons are denied their basic human rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? You can't vote, can't run for office, can't own a weapon to defend yourself... basically it's like you become a woman in the 1800s. Except presumably they still got laid.

      I know that tomhudson, gmhowell, jeremiah cornelius, and webmistressrachel (the only one who IS reasonable in fact of you all) & possibly damn_registrars (not sure about he though) meet @ "trolltalk.com" on Tuesdays, so run it by all of your people and let's call an end to the madness...

      P.P.S. Your paranoid delusion that anyone who contradicts you is a part of some organized conspiracy and meets at some website to coordinate their offensives against you appears to be nothing more than just that: a paranoid delusion. You have a long history (decades, even) of posting trollish things and then interacting in trollish ways with people who you claim are all trolls. Well, I have news for you: you must be from Soviet Russia, because the common factor is YOU.

  57. Thank you for understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am trying to get a "truce" going here w/ them: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36512182

    Why?

    Well - Even though these guys troll & harass others repeatedly & are quoted doing so, for more than a year now, I know 1st hand what war & fights are about - nobody ever wins.

    Plus - There's bigger problems in the world, and in everyone's personal lives too... & this squabble?

    This can be solved, through reason, I am sure of it from my end: Are they though? See that link above, & thanks for your time.

  58. Re:tomhudson's STILL trolling via ac replies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've seen guys get caught before posting as women online, yes, it happens. I could care less though about that.

    I do know that I am trying to call a truce with these trolltalk.com members! See below...

    (Yes, they actually belong to some site that is named that in tomhudson, webmistressrachel (the only one that seems to want it stopped too along with myself), jeremiah cornelius, damn_registrars, countertrolling, & gmhowell) here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2251620&cid=36512016

    and here in this exchange also:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36512182

    Trying to be "the bigger man" & extend the olive branch as the saying goes. I hope they are the same.

    Why? Mainly because I know, first hand, that nobody ever wins a fight. Nobody.

    (I don't think these trolltalk.com people have ever been shot at or in a fight so bad someone went to the hospital etc., which is why they troll & harass others)

    I tried the "fight fire with fire"/reverse psychology thing, the only thing they seem to understand... here's what I got when I asked for a truce:

    "Besides, this AC trolling action would be missed if it were to subside." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @07:57AM (#36510818)

    Come on... NOW - that may just be 1 of them "outta control" though. I'd just let his more reasonable peers & pals control he if they see things as I do.

    I am only asking we stop this lunacy. It's stupid, it really is. This is simple to get around, just by an honorable compromise of "You leave me be, I leave you be"... it's that simple.

    Balls in their court now.

  59. I am asking it cease, that's all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am asking it cease from their end, and I've posted enough data to show I am NOT the one keeping it up either and I don't troll people and brag about it as they do. For Pete's sake, I am asking for a truce too, so HOW can you try to throw it in MY FACE that I am doing it when I show clearly how tomhudson, gmhowell, countertrolling (the main instigators) act anyhow?

    I'd really appreciate it if they would just agree to a ceasefire here publicly, that's all. Is that too much to ask??

    1. Re:I am asking it cease, that's all by mcvos · · Score: 1

      I don't see ridiculous swathes of off-topic crap being posted in this thread by them. I do see you posting that. The only thing I'm doing is judging you by your actions. If this is what your request for a truce looks like, I'd rather you stopped requesting a truce.

  60. U got shot down twice: Geek angst? Proof inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    erroneus, because you trolled me before and got shot down for it here for your mistakes you made: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=32526486 where you posted stale OS data and you ran when I confronted you on it.

    (You ran too, you knew you were WRONG, period!)

    Swallow your pride, you lost.

    Don't try to make me out as the bad guy when you can't handle your own "geek angst" for my pointing out your ERRONEOUS b.s., erroneus.

    I am trying to call a truce here & elsewhere also... don't stick your nose into it.

    1. Re:U got shot down twice: Geek angst? Proof inside by erroneus · · Score: 1

      APK detected -- emotionally and/or mentally unstable -- hostile

  61. Erroneus URreason 4 this? Here: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32525656

    You showing here proves YOU can't handle you got "shot down" by your own mistakes

    (Swallow your "pride" & "geek angst" already, & stay out of this. You're not part of it anyhow. Get over it, you lost to me in a technical debate!)

    Go away now, ok? U FAIL.

  62. Adhominem attack from erroneus? Why?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't handle UR "geek angst" where U RAN here http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32525656 after I pointed out you posted STALE OS info. & other errors you made posting ERRONEOUS info., erroneus. Get over it, grow up, and keep your nose out of this please. You've shown your motivations in the link above and that you're the one with "emotional problems". You failed vs. myself, and you're obviously still stinging over it. Get over it. Grow up. Adhominem attacks from you aren't cutting it.

  63. erroneus's geek angst 4 trolling is here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where he made mistakes vs. myself http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32525656 and he's still "stinging" from it.

    Get over it erroneus, your "geek angst" is laughable.

    In fact, I have found that whenever I've shown that others of "your ilk" make mistakes as you did, they cannot handle it, and post a lot of crap online about it in effete retaliation trying to "smear me".

    Just as you are trying to do. Pitiful.

    (LMAO - Give us a break!)

    "In all those years, you would think that he would have learned from his mistakes along the way as his internet trail indicates that he makes the same mistakes over and over and over again." - by erroneus (253617) on Tuesday June 21, @09:30AM (#36511692) Homepage

    See URL above, speak for yourself... lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> As far as my history? Well... the day you can show anyone here you've done more than this, & better, as well as before I did in the art & science of computing:

    ----

    Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61

    (&, for work done for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com on PAID CONTRACT (writing portions of their SuperCache program increasing its performance by up to 40% via my work) albeit, for their SuperDisk & HOW TO APPLY IT, took them to a finalist position @ MS Tech Ed, two years in a row 2000-2002, in its HARDEST CATEGORY: SQLServer Performance Enhancement).

    WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)

    PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there

    WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there

    PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there

    CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there

    GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" 2000, where my work is contained in it

    HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), 2001 my work is there, first one featured, yet again!

    Also, a British PC Mag in 2002 for many utilities I wrote, saw it @ BORDERS BOOKS but didn't buy it... by that point, I had moved onto other areas in this field besides coding only...

    Being paid for an article that made me money over @ PCPitstop in 2008 for writing up a guide that has people showing NO VIRUSES/SPYWARES & other screwups, via following its point, such as THRONKA sees here -> http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ee926d913b81bf6d63c3c7372fd2a24c&t=28430&page=3

    It's also been myself helping out the folks at the UltraDefrag64 project (a 64-bit defragger for Windows), in showing them code for how to do Process Priority Control @ the GUI usermode/ring 3/rpl 3 level in their program (good one too), & being credited for it by their lead dev & his team... see here -> http://ultradefrag.sourceforge.net/handbook/Credits.html or here http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2993462&group_id=199532&atid=969873

    AND lastly: http://g-off.net/software/a-python-repeatable-threadingtimer-class [g-off.net] where I got other programmer's work WORKING RIGHT (in PyThon no less, which I just started learning only 2 week ago no less) by showing them how to use a "Dummy Proxy Function" as I call it, to make a RepeatTimer class (Thread sub-class really) to take PARAMETERIZED F

  64. Have you been published for doing well? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In computer science as many times as he has?? Evidently not. Between that and the errors he pointed out that you made in not noting security vulnerability work-arounds in Linux and their mechanics (if any), vs. where apk-ac for Windows 7 could says it all.

    You're the one with emotional problems, despite your saying he has them in an adhominem attack, clearly. It's called "geek angst" and you're a "ne'er-do-well" also because you haven't done as well in computers as ac apk has. Talk about telegraphing your reasons for trolling here on your part, lol!

    He's trying to make peace with a pack of known trolls here is all. Ones that stalked him for a year from what it looks like on these forums shown here in fact with their own words quoted -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36513166 and even the op didn't argue with it.

  65. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw lists his of doing decent work in software and security mostly from google. Which examples are you talking about specifically? Your rant isn't any good without that.

  66. ErroneOus is running away? LMAO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because erroneuOs screwed up badly here vs. apk before http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36515872 and erroneOus knows that you can point out actual evidences to the contrary, not just crap based on erroneOus' "geek angst" as erroneOus spouts off topic here.

    1. Re:ErroneOus is running away? LMAO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is his name erroneuOs or erroneOus? I'm so confused!

  67. Re:LMAO - "I rest my case" (see parent post) by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 1
    --
    Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
  68. When you show these are in error? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will! Now, per your comment here posting again as AC tomhudson (when you have a registered account no less):

    "By "cease all hostilities", I assume then you also mean that you'll stop posting your tripe about hosts files" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    Good luck, vs. these:

    ---

    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274
    HOSTS MOD UP -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182
    HOSTS MOD UP with facebook known bad sites blocked -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128
    HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952
    HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066
    HOSTS MOD UP vs AT&T BANDWIDTH CAP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2116504&cid=35985584
    HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2220314&cid=36372850
    HOSTS and BGP +5 RATED (BEING HONEST) http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450

    ---

    OR THESE:

    ---

    "Ever since I've installed a host file (http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm) to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

    "I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

    "I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

    "^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730)

  69. Troll? Here are YOUR WORDS tomhudson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speak for yourself:

    "However, it's not "hostile" to call a spade a spade, an idiot an idiot, or a troll a troll" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    #1 PROOF THEREOF:

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2 PROOF THEREOF:

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3 PROOF THEREOF:

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    Want more?

    APK

    P.S.=> I have plenty of them, those are only a TINY sampling... apk

  70. Pure Opinion (100+ mod ups say otherwise) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is my favorite one here (along with getting you to run from HOSTS files points I posted, you can disprove them (oh wait - you've TRIED & FAILED tomhudson!)):

    "Oh, and your posting style is hostile to common decency. - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    Are you the "master of posting online"? Are there rules?? You're just opinion... lol!

    Pure opinion on YOUR part vs. this (see my "p.s." below & many moderations upwards I have (despite posting as AC)), lol...

    (Too easy)

    ---

    "Lose the single-sentence paragraphs interspersed with gratuitous YELLING, stern bold sections, and excessive punctuation. It's hideous. Take an English course at the local community college or something, and learn to write proper paragraphs and emphasize your point with words rather than all-caps, double punctuation marks, or font-weight." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    AHEM: I actually possess 2 collegiate degrees!

    1, while also being a lettering athlete in the sport of Lacrosse for a national champion level team (see letter "K" & 1985 (you already know my name)):

    http://www.lemoynedolphins.com/sports/mlax/history/mlaxletterwinners

    Degrees in Business Administration + MIS minor, & a CSC degree (AAS long done & credits going towards my B.S. in it now as we speak in fact (94/120))...

    Do you even HAVE a college degree?

    * Prove it!

    (Especially a PHD in English that makes you an actual "expert" in it... since you see fit to tell others how to write online, lol!)

    I can & have proven I have one, easily, just by posting that URL above... where I was working both ends of the deal academically & athletically + doing well @ both!

    APK

    P.S.=> So, show us you even HAVE a college degree @ all, especially around computing as I do... ok? How about a PHD in English while you're @ it?? LMAO... too easy!

    ... apk

    1. Re:Pure Opinion (100+ mod ups say otherwise) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up, ALL OF YOU.

      There's no need to pollute this thread. Duke it out somewhere else.

  71. Shutdown & get NEW IP = ILLEGAL? LOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I shut down a system & get a NEW IP: That's illegal? LMAO!

    "deliberately changing your IP address" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    LMAO: So when someone shuts their system down and restarts it, & they get a new IP address leased, that's "illegal"?

    (Please - when you actually are an attorney, or know anything about computers tomhudson? Quote law then!)

    ---

    "and/or erasing tracking cookies in order to ain access or post messages on Slashdot's server more often than is allowed and to intentionally circumvent the access controls" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    LMAO - I've asked this of trolls like you before: Show me a rule like that? I'll abide by it... I don't accept cookies in my browsers, period! Many folks don't!

    (& you had better arrest browser makers (most all in fact) who put in controls to stop cookies if the user wants to!

    ---

    "intended to prevent you from posting may actually be a felony." - " - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    Go on, disprove the above... & get your law degree 1st, as well as a degree in Comp. Sci. (CSC or CIS for example) because YOU NEED IT!

    APK

    P.S.=> tomhudson? You're really losing it this time... apk

  72. APK partial list of mod ups vs. your b.s., lol! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Roughly 100++ of them & I post as AC (hard to get even +1, as /. hides our posts & we "AC"'s start @ ZERO/0 points, unlike registered "lusers", lol!):

    +5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (5):

    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450
    http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1872982&cid=34264190
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175774&cid=14610147
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1806946&cid=33777976
    http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1884922&cid=34350102

    ----

    +4 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (4):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161862&cid=13531817
    http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167071&cid=13931198
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1290967&cid=28571315
    http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158310&cid=13263898

    ----

    +3 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (5):

    http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155172&cid=13007974
    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166850&cid=13914137
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175857&cid=14615222
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=20291847
    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021873&cid=25681261

    ----

    +2 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (12):

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139485&cid=26974507
    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1361585&cid=29360367
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=245971&cid=19760473
    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=174759&cid=14538593
    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233779&cid=19020329
    http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=970939&cid=25093275
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1001489&cid=25441395
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1010923&cid=25549351
    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021733&cid=25675515
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231

  73. tomhudson @ trolltalk.com (google doesn't lie) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GOOGLE shows proof of tomhudson @ trolltalk.com:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=tomhudson+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Google+Search

    ---

    Does gmhowell go to trolltalk.com? Absolutely:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gmhowell+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Search

    ---

    Does jeremiah cornelius go to trolltalk.com? Yes:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jeremiah+cornelius+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Search

    ---

    Does webmistressrachel go to trolltalk.com????

    http://thinkgeek.shill.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35863832

    Seems that way, but she has been reasonable with myself MOST of the time.

    ---

    * Argue with GOOGLE, not I (lol) @ this point... lmao!

    APK

    P.S.=> Funny you said this too, VERY "telling":

    "Your paranoid delusion that anyone who contradicts you is a part of some organized conspiracy and meets at some website to coordinate their offensives against you appears to be nothing more than just that: a paranoid delusion" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @02:03PM (#36516388)

    I never ONCE said they met there to "coordinate their offensives against me"!

    (In fact, show me a quote on /. of my stating that without impersonating me now to do it, and predating today, I only know they meet there, for whatever reasons)...

    YOU SAID IT... again, "VERY TELLING", lol!

    apk

  74. It's hilarious 2C APK kick their asses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On everything tomhudson said while posting as ac trolling here:

    ---

    On HOSTS files: (tomhudson got his ass kicked there BADLY many times with proofs):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36518446

    ---

    On it being illegal to get a new IP address by restarting a computer: (this one's hilarious)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36519068

    ---

    On APK showing 100 or more moderations upwards when tomhudson posting as ac said his posting style sux etc. (more-or-less):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36519216

    ---

    On APK asking if tomhudson has a degree even (let alone the PHD to show he's an expert in ENGLISH):

    This I know tomhudson won't answer. Obviously no degree for tomhudson whatsoever, let alone the English PHD he'd need to show he is indeed "the doctor of posting style online" lol!

    * Best consolidated "FTW" win for APK YET! vs. the trolltalk.com TROLLSQUAD here on /.!

  75. Quit ribbing on them (I was only defending myself) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "* Best consolidated "FTW" win for APK YET! vs. the trolltalk.com TROLLSQUAD here on /.!" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @04:59PM (#36519628)

    You're right, but I was only defending myself vs. their accusations, & other forms of "b.s." I pointed out, point by point...

    Still - ribbing on tomhudson trolling as ac again? Unnecessary! The posts alone do that (& that's what they cannot stand - it gets to their "geek angst" & "l33t3 tech SkiLLz" (not) being shot down in flames point by point!).

    The part about hosts files especialy gives that away easily enough http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36518446

    As well as the fact tomhudson trolled me as ac stalking replies http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36518614 & told others to do so also 3x quoted tells anyone THAT much)

    BUT THIS, I have to admit, made me laugh the most:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36519068

    BOTTOM-LINE:

    They always startup with me, via AC replies http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36518614 off topic & all as usual!

    Then, I just finish it with FACTS, like ones you noted!

    (How much more abuse can they bring on themselves? I offer to make peace, they do that instead... man! Some folks NEVER learn!)

    OH CORRECTING YOU NOW too:

    "On it being illegal to get a new IP address by restarting a computer"

    You have to restart your system, router/modem etc. too!

    APK

    P.S.=> They don't get it - I can troll the hell out of them in return, and showing everyone all the things I have here, and do it unceasingly if need be as damn_registrars did here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2251620&cid=36498062

    Funny he called that journal of his "Redefining Winning"!

    Especially when he lost (he's a network engineer noob, who is trying to figure out why "someone ac" can post so much as an AC & so fast, but failing in his ideas there...

    LMAO - He actually defined LOSING on his part, badly!)

    ... apk

  76. tomhudson posting as ac again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shut up, ALL OF YOU. There's no need to pollute this thread. Duke it out somewhere else. by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @04:24PM (#36519022)

    tomhudson's shown us his ac stalking trolling methods here in his own words after all, no doubt about it: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36518614 tomhudson's "geek angst" displayed for all to see, hahahaha! So much for tomhudson's credibility on slashdot.

    1. Re:tomhudson posting as ac again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, not tomhudson or whoever. Just another Slashdot reader who doesn't want to see this CRAP while I'm trying to read posts that are actually ON TOPIC, thanks!

  77. His data is ERRONEOUS and he won't back it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He should spell erroneus as ERRONEOUS hahahaha

  78. +5 post and U kick tomhudson's ass again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    U kicked trolltalk.com's ass in a +5 thread hahaha. tomhudson http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36518614 , gmhowell, webmistressrachel, jeremiah cornelius, and damn_registrars are going to be pissed off hahahaha
    by giving away their dirty tricks on how they upmod themselves too http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2245866&cid=36491652 but they only did this to themselves as usual by there ac posting methods shown here in their own words:

    (requoting apk)

    #1 PROOF THEREOF:

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544 [slashdot.org]

    ---

    #2 PROOF THEREOF:

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122 [slashdot.org]

    ---

    #3 PROOF THEREOF:

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680 [slashdot.org]

  79. tomhudson schooled by APK (FIAT money) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Absolutely http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2251220&cid=36505944

    "Intellectually challenged?" - by tomhudson (43916) on Monday June 20, @03:21PM (#36504536) Homepage

    tomhudson likes to "play smart" but is anything but, see link above where tomhudson also earned a FLAMEBAIT down moderation and was told off by everyone there (and tried to upmod it the way his friend countertrolling says their trolltalk.com people do around here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2245866&cid=36491652 )

  80. Truce in place (start of it @ least) w/ gmhowell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2251620&cid=36520598 and that's all I wanted: An end to hostilities gmhowell's being a reasonable man there, I hope tomhudson does the same & the others too I noted.

    Apologies for doing this in your thread pieterh (+5 & all on your part)

    (Not that I ever did, I hate "re-trolling" trolls them (they're tenacious "bastidges" (nod to ROMAN MARONI there, lol) @ times)).

    * However - it had to be done someplace, & this turned out to be it.

    (This is good - I hope they keep to their word is all!)

    * Proves even folks that troll & what not CAN be reasoned with, with some effort...

    APK

    P.S.=> So on that note? "Adios Amigos" my fav. parting message, via video analogy from my FAVORITE FILM, "Layer Cake" (great film, do see it, you won't be disappointed):

    ---

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CamgFlOGwB8

    ---

    MORAL OF THAT FILM'S STORY/ITS THEME: Get to the top, & get out while you're ahead...

    That is, unless erroneus shows up again: He's notorious for trolling & generally waits until you are long gone to get in his "last word" trollings!

    ... apk

  81. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    APK detected. If you Googled the name "Alexander Peter Kowalski" you would find these:

    http://www.thorschrock.com/2008/05/19/how-to-respond-when-people-threaten-to-sue-you-on-the-web/

    A nice bit using APK as an example of how to handle yourself when dealing with people "like these." APK is the poster child for this behavior.

    http://www.jeremyreimer.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4128

    More of the same from other people... complaints mostly and somewhere in there, his home address. Probably moved by now since many complaints about this nuisance date back before the year 2000... quite a career.

    http://www.acronymgeek.com/APK/Alexander_Peter_Kowalski/276459

    Here he is so infamous that he is registered with an acronym.

    I'll skip the crappy registry cleaner utilities. There are hundreds of those all equally useless. And really... engine? Is that what a utility gets called? An engine?

    http://twitter.com/#!/klastalov/statuses/2001247938

    Here's a link from an APK fan... worth reading

    http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=821190&start=40

    This is beyond awesome.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-33596.html

    Yet more indicating his stellar reputation as a contributing member of society who gets along well with everyone.

    http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1010242&start=40

    Another sample... these are dated 2001. I mean really. If a person goes a whole 10 years like this and everyone seems to respond to him in the same way, what sane person can believe that he's not the problem and that the rest of the world just wants to attack him for no good reason. This is just a person who will never look at himself as the source of his own problems.

    "erroneus" spelled in this way is a kind of loop. Also, it was taken from an error message reported by old IRC server software after a user attempted to change his nick to something that is not allowed -- "erroneus nick change." Oh yeah, I go way back.

    What I find amazing is that he replied to my same comment numerous times and then replied to his own replies numerous times. His replies are hilariously like elementary school tactics rather like calling someone "chicken" or in his case "...ran away!" As people go, APK is quite a piece of work and completely genuine I'm convinced. He's literally stuck in a kind of loop somehow. Tracking just what he does on Slashdot alone is quite impressive. He has to track individual targets all over the place checking and rechecking comments and threads to keep his fire burning. And it's not just here. It's other places too. This is probably the most angry and obsessive person I have ever witnessed. I am completely convinced that he's over-the-top mentally ill.

  82. Time 2 BLOW U AWAY erroneus (part #1) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thor Schrock? Note he wouldn't answer when I asked him a couple simple questions (on HOSTS files + Spybot Search & Destroy or PING )?? Here is why in detail:

    Fact is, according to CA (computer associates)- both can be classified as malwares because of Computer Associates tests criteria! For things ping can/could do "ping of death" &/or Spybot altering a HOSTS file.

    Which Schrock posted to CA, AND USING MY MIDDLE NAME and LAST NAME ONLY (so I would not find it when searching my apps online when I was an avid freeware/shareware author as a student circa 1995-2002).

    In the end?

    Much went MY way, check it:

    CA had to DOWNGRADE a single app of mine,to ZERO THREAT LEVELS, because I passed all 21 of their questions for malware testing (upon writing they on it).

    Thor Schrock was made out as a FOOL to CA too, & that's why he posts that blog when I asked he remove it.

    My app's NOT SCRIPTABLE: This is why Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft has hassles this way @ times: He put in argc/argv commandlines into his app... I foresaw this & didn't in the app in question! It's never been used in an attack either...

    ---

    This happens to decent software makers out there

    Yes, believe-it-or-not: Ask Nir Sofer of NIRSOFT (guy makes great power tools for PC's)

    ALSO:

    Ask Dr. Mark Russinovich - he does decent work, former "colleague/co-worker" of mine for Sunbelt Software circa 1995-2000!

    (He was decent enough to thank me in email for my helping he by pointing out a VERY ROOKIE mistake in his hardcodes in it, how to fix them via the NT Native API too, & why (he overlooked things is why, good as he is at coding).

    In fact, his pstools suite?

    It very OFTEN gets "used & abused" by malware makers worldwide, & recently too (psexec.exe):

    http://www.installsoftware.com/microsoft-admin-tool-used-by-coreflood-to-infect-computer-networks/network_software

    By the coreflood botnet no less!

    ---

    That all said & aside, erroneus? YOU ARE "ERRONEOUS" YET AGAIN!
    APK

    P.S.=> And the TRUE CRIMINALS THERE

    Well...let this tell that tale, along with Thor SCHMUCK who submitted my app to these "partners in crime" of his in CA:

    ---

    COMPUTER ASSOCIATES BUSTED FOR ACCOUNTING FRAUD:

    (PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:)

    "Customers know Computer Associates - and, these days, for all the wrong reasons. Just as the company was beginning to shed its reputation as a home for legacy software products that carried an inflated price tag, it was rocked by a series of accounting scandals. An on-going FBI fraud inquiry and investigations by the US Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission have left it reeling, with a power vacuum at the top as over a dozen senior executives have left or been sacked. The allegations centre on internal accounting and sales activities in the years around the turn of the century, and involve the movement of revenues between quarters and product areas, and consequently, the mis-statement of financial results."

    ---

    (Needless to say? CA sold off their Security Suite division too recently... "Gee, I wonder why?" (not))

    FROM -> http://www.information-age.com/articles/290656/the-information-age-interview.thtml

  83. Time 2 BLOW U AWAY erroneus (part #2) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NOW: IF I were a "malware maker/hacker-cracker"? I'd have to be the STUPIDEST one there is, because I also created the 1st guide for securing Windows, highly rated @ NEOWIN (as far back as 1998-2001) here:

    http://www.neowin.net/news/apk-a-to-z-internet-speedup--security-text

    AND, more currently, the MOST viewed & highly rated one there is for years now since 2008 online:

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22HOW+TO+SECURE+Windows+2000%2FXP%22&go=&form=QBRE

    Which has well over 400,000++ views online (actually MORE, but 1 site with 75,000 views of it went offline/out-of-business) & it's been made either:

    ---

    1.) An Essential Guide
    2.) 5-5 star rated
    3.) A "sticky-pinned" thread
    4.) Most viewed in the category it's in (usually security)
    5.) 2.) Got me PAID by winning a contest @ PCPitStop (quite unexpectedly - I was only posting it for the good of all, & yes, "the Lord works in mysterious ways", it even got me PAID -> http://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2007/09/04/pc-pitstop-winners/ (see January 2008))

    ---

    APK

    P.S.=> That's Across 15-20 or so sites I posted it on back in 2008... have YOU done better, troll?

    No, obviously.

    (So much for your attempts @ "discrediting me" with "std. troll disinformation protocol", because it falls apart in the light of FACTS... easily! Just "too, Too, TOO EASILY" in fact!)

    ... apk

  84. Time 2 BLOW U AWAY erroneus (part #3) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jeremy Reimer? He was caught IMPERSONATING MYSELF @ Windows IT Pro forums (where he trolled me & pursued me to along with his "henchman" Jay Little (both of them had their websites removed by CrystalTech.com no less for it, because of death threats & more (they told me he'd do it again, & voila, he has!))

    Jeremy Reimer also impersonated a Mr. Martin Meszaros whose words testified to my statements as well in that regard, & in regards to memory compaction tech working for various things to the "good"...

    Jeremy Reimer was contacted also by his ISP/BSP & put onto a "tracking ticket" for email harassing me as well, and for making childish wav files and photos of myself in "effete retaliation"... along with Jay Little.

    A Det. Felton of Vancouver B.C. Canada got ahold of Jeremy Reimer and that put a stop to ALL of that too... cooled his jets for stalking me online also with Jay Little (to Windows IT Pro, NTCompatible.com, and numerous other sites as well) & doing the same...

    They are "sick in the head" which is WHY Conde Nast won't put up Jeremy Reimer's PLAGIARIZED so-called articles anymore - think History of the GUI & Douglas Englebart (whom Reimer reamed much from for that)

    ALL THAT & for what?

    For my asking he remove someone that IMPERSONATED ME ON HIS FORUMS, & rather nicely on my part I felt... it was Reimer himself! See above... he's known as a TROLL online!

    Proof?? Ok, a good read on that note, from WINDOWS IT PRO MAGAZINE FORUMS:

    http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/internals-and-architecture/the-memory-optimization-hoax#feedbackAnchor

    That's where I proved to a fellow former colleague of mine @ Sunbelt Software, Dr. Mark Russinovich that Memory Optimization/Compacting tech is useful... via MICROSOFT'S OWN TECH in Clearmem.exe no less (Dr. Mark works for MS no less).

    Oh, it gets BETTER & in my favor:

    There @ Windows IT Pro Magazine forums, Jay Little, Reimer's "partner in crime" had said arrogantly:

    "I AM AN EXPERT ON EXCHANGE SERVER"

    Then, I simply put up articles from Microsoft themselves that showed memory optimizers unhalting stalled/frozen EXCHANGE SERVERS... Little ran

    Even Jarrett DeAngelis (posts here as StarKruzr) then a Doctoral candidate even AGREED I had made correct points & he was an arstechnica member & pal of Jeremy Reimer + Jay Little no less!

    Jay Little paid the worst though - not only did he blow it publicly on EXCHANGE SERVER (See above), He then in effete retaliation, also put up things like "APK MUST BE PUT TO DEATH" & more like it!

    Which CrystalTech.com, his hosting provider, and petitionline.com + bellsouth.com removed promptly at legal order!

    APK

    P.S.=> Again - That's ALL here, no less, @ Windows IT Pro forums... nobody has disputed ANY of the above, since, on technical (or legal) grounds either:

    http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/internals-and-architecture/the-memory-optimization-hoax#feedbackAnchor

    By now, how stupid are you feeling yet again vs. myself, ErroneOus?

    ... apk

  85. Time 2 BLOW U AWAY erroneus (part #4) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GOOGLE & I ARE WELL KNOWN THEN, lol!

    After all - APK's their std. for programming ANDROID (android programming package)!

    SO much for this from the "ne'er-do-well" TROLLING likes of YOU, Erroneous!

    See here, as I have said in this exchange already? GOOGLE DOESN'T LIE:

    ---

    APK (file format) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APK_(file_format)

    ---

    * So - After my 1st replies, first 3 already done blowing you away? Again - how STUPID do you feel, ErroneOus?

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "Here he is so infamous that he is registered with an acronym." - by erroneus (253617) on Tuesday June 21, @07:08PM (#36521452) Homepage

    Your worst effort yet possibly... heh, GOOGLE & MYSELF in the same letters? Hey - I'll take it (I owned it before they though, lol!)

    AND, again:

    The day you can show us all that you've done more in the art & science of computing than I have, earlier as well, & to better acclaim than I have (that's just when I was a CSC student too mind you, I moved onto bigger & better things afterwards) from this VERY PARTIAL LIST ONLY of a few of my "favs"? Is the day a trolling "ne'er-do-well" such as yourself can talk:

    "My Name is Ozymandias: King of Kings - Look upon my works, ye mighty, & DESPAIR..."

    ----

    Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61

    (&, for work done for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com on PAID CONTRACT (writing portions of their SuperCache program increasing its performance by up to 40% via my work) albeit, for their SuperDisk & HOW TO APPLY IT, took them to a finalist position @ MS Tech Ed, two years in a row 2000-2002, in its HARDEST CATEGORY: SQLServer Performance Enhancement).

    WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)

    PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there

    WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there

    PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there

    CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there

    GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" 2000, where my work is contained in it

    HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), 2001 my work is there, first one featured, yet again!

    Also, a British PC Mag in 2002 for many utilities I wrote, saw it @ BORDERS BOOKS but didn't buy it... by that point, I had moved onto other areas in this field besides coding only...

    Being paid for an article that made me money over @ PCPitstop in 2008 for writing up a guide that has people showing NO VIRUSES/SPYWARES & other screwups, via following its point, such as THRONKA sees here -> http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ee926d913b81bf6d63c3c7372fd2a24c&t=28430&page=3

    It's also been myself helping out the folks at the UltraDefrag64 project (a 64-bit defragger for Windows), in showing them code for how to do Process Priority Control @ the GUI usermode/ring 3/rpl 3 level in their program (good one too), & being credited for it by their lead dev & his team... see here -> http://ultradefrag.sourceforge.net/handbook/Credits.html or here http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2993462&group_id=199532&atid=969873

    AND lastly:

  86. Time 2 BLOW U AWAY erroneus (part #5) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On 1 app of mine of 30 I put out over time, APK Registry Cleaning Engine 2002++ SR-7 (final build, perfect, never been found to have a known bug or flaw either):

    "I'll skip the crappy registry cleaner utilities. There are hundreds of those all equally useless" - by erroneus (253617) on Tuesday June 21, @07:08PM (#36521452) Homepage

    FIRST: They're EXTREMELY useful in forensics, I'll tell you THAT MUCH, firsthand!

    How so?

    I.E./E.G.-> Recently used filelists, one of the things it checks automagically & lists if INVALID!

    For example, when & IF someone tries to delete files vs. self-incrimination? It will find it and sometimes in the case of child pr0n deviants by filename ALONE can help convict sick freaks like that!

    How's that so far ERRONEOUS?

    And, Mine turns up things you would NOT BELIEVE that tell you what a person's been up to in that very capacity... to get them convicted in fact!

    Law enforcement's used it that way before!

    (I do that level of work @ times professionally, AXA MONY being my last client in that capacity in fact)...

    Even after std. deletes, secure deletes, or defrags... the system keeps a record (so does the $MFT in NTFS, not a lot of folks know that, it NEVER SHRINKS!)

    AND, of course, they're naturally GOOD for what they're intended for as well by removing (and compacting away) registry "holes" (sort of like a DB Compaction so the file is smaller & not plagued as much by internal fragmentation)

    And of course, here's mine (shameless plug), 1 of around 30 apps I put online while still a student in freeware/shareware (some are now in commercial apps like SuperSpeed.com/EEC Systems SuperDisk &/or SuperCache - highly esteemed wares that sell to this day 16++ yrs. after I made the code for them & ideas on how to use them effectively (which, only now, are being used for terminal servers, databases, website for BETTER/FASTER PERFORMANCE):

    ---

    APK Registry Cleaning Engine 2002++ SR-7:

    http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/389/APK_Registry_Cleaning_Engine_2002++_SR-7_.html

    ---

    IN fact, I challenged a competitor, Juoni Verio, to show his wares of that kind would not find as many entries to purge as mine did... his didn't (lol, then, he tried to "plug in" a "test dataset" (rigged to his regcleaner app's algorithm & still did not find more). We tested on clean systems users had, & mine dusted his!)

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "And really... engine? Is that what a utility gets called? An engine?" - by erroneus (253617) on Tuesday June 21, @07:08PM (#36521452) Homepage

    Mine do, do you have to ask (or are you just dumb)? See above, living proof!

    Here's another "oldie but goodie" that "started the show" for me in this industry in fact, regarding 3dFx Voodoo Boards I/II/III for OpenGL graphics & gaming:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22APK+3d+Fx+Tuning+Engine%22&btnG=Google+Search

    Still out there too, lol, amazing (even I didn't know that, as I rarely look into my wares anymore) & all over the web... lol! Cool!

    Again, since I have asked this of you before?

    HOW ABOUT YOU, ERRONEUS? What have YOU ever done in the way of software that did THIS well over time & only as a young man in academia only!

    (Below's a SMALL, VERY PARTIAL ONLY list of my "favs" only, I have more as you can see above, those are only a FRACTION too that did pretty well!)

    "My Name is Ozymandias: King of Kings - Look upon my works, ye mighty, & DESPAIR..."

    ----

    Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61

  87. Time 2 BLOW U AWAY erroneus (part #6) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A recent email to me, more valid than ARSTECHNICA, the laughingstocks of the internet

    ---

    Hello? Is this THE Alexander Peter Kowalski?
    greenblanket@hushmail.com
    3/21/2001

    ---

    Is this THE Alexander Peter Kowalski? I tried your Reg cleaner app and I just wanted to let you know how great it is! I used CCleaner in the past but yours found like 39 more broken links. Just curious, would it be a problem if I installed this at my office environment, or is this for personal use only?

    Thanks!

    Greg

    ---

    BETTER THAN CCLEANER NO LESS!

    So... that all "said & aside":

    Since you mentioned my APK Registry Cleaning ENGINE 2002++ SR-7 here already & I blew you away on it here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36522486

    (Especially on the FORENSICS usefulness of Registry Cleaners of all things - a hidden benefit of them in fact!)?

    * There you go!

    I'd like to know how many emails did you get for any ware you've written ERRONEOUS?

    (Oh, that's right... you haven't ever done so - You're just another stalking/trolling "ne'er-do-well" clown online!)

    LMAO!

    APK

    P.S.=> Especially since you used ARSTECHNICA, lol, because of my post showing here earlier in response to your crap here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36522212\

    Alongside this Windows IT Pro article referenced there also:

    http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/internals-and-architecture/the-memory-optimization-hoax#feedbackAnchor

    Blows you away!

    (It's about how they too were dusted by myself, so badly in technicals, they ran from Windows IT Pro forums where they literally STALKED ME TO, & trolled me for years there and other spots online as well http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/internals-and-architecture/the-memory-optimization-hoax#feedbackAnchor , had their personal websites removed by their HOSTING providers (CrytalTech.com), impersonated, libeled, death threatened me, stalked me online, email harassed me, & FAR more (Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little) which the law in Det. Felton in Reimer's hometown of Vancouver BC in Canada got involved in as well as Reimer's ISP/BSP)

    * How stupid do you feel @ this point, ErroneOus>

    ... apk

  88. LMAO @ Erroneus (blown away 6x by APK) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    How stupid do you feel erroneus? Every point you made there was blown away with valid, concrete, verifiable evidences vs. your trolling "ne'er-do-well" statements there. LOL!

  89. tomhudson'd never make it @ 4chan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson's an amateurish troll that got caught trolling and that shows how weak he is.

  90. tomhudson "std. modus operandi" @ work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Absolutely: Trying to troll or defend himself via AC replies!

    "No, not tomhudson. Just another Slashdot reader " - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @10:15PM

    Then why not post with your registered account?

    (Oh, that's right: tomhudson has a registered account, but trolls & stalks others here, & by ac replies instead with proof thereof below...)

    Well, let's let tomhudson speak for himself, shall we on how he operates here (ac "stalkin'-N-trollin'" others + using tricks to upmod himself and his trolltalk.com pals, and downmod others they troll on /. & elsewhere):

    ---

    #1

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122 [slashdot.org]

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    * "3 strikes YOU'RE OUT"

    ---

    Tomhudson & crew from trolltalk.com? They're admitted ac reply stalkers & trollers on /., via tomhudson's OWN words (or rather, yours tomhudson, since you're replying as AC again trying to "defend yourself" vs. the above, & vainly!)

    tomhudson not only does his ac stalker/trolling, but he also tells others to upmod tom the ac stalker troll, + downmod others replies, & does so via rather BOGUS means!

    Proof? Ok:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36508674

    countertrolling's one of tomhudson's sockpuppet accounts or pals (in lots of tomhudson's journals for example to "support him" lol!)

    FUNNIEST PART OF ALL HERE? Telling others "it's not U" tom ac stalking trolling as AC replies? Please:

    See the above - do you *think* you can fool anyone here now with that line of b.s.??

    This is a +5 rated post on /., the #1 tech site on the planet in some folks' eyes: http://www.topsite.com/best/tech

    You have not only exposed yourself for your trolling, but also your ac trolling replies technical errors also... lol!

    ... Good job tomhudson (not).

    1. Re:tomhudson "std. modus operandi" @ work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No, not tomhudson. Just another Slashdot reader " - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, @10:15PM

      Then why not post with your registered account?

      Because 1) mods are on crack, 2) I don't want to waste karma on this shit, and 3) fuck you

  91. They've already been here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36505524

    Been laffin' our A$$e$ off @ U tomhudson (bein' cold-busted trollin'-N-stalkin', like a chump, you noob!).

    What an amateur!

    See some of our posts there in the link above and U FAIL PHOOLZ from trolltalk.com -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36519462

  92. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    He is truly the most disturbed person I have witnessed online ever. He has gone over my posting history adding taunts to every open discussion thread available attempting to incite some kind of reaction. He has gone to amazing lengths to do this. And this is not the act of an angry person. Anger doesn't work like that. And this is not the act of a mere troll either. Trolls do no focus or stalk their targets. So what explains this bizarre behavior? We might start by asking what he seeks to gain. Given that he perpetually cites mediocre programming and having an article or two published, he thinks he is a celebrity and that everyone should kneel to his glory. (Here's a clue -- I have worked in media publishing before... from the outside, it does appear glamourous, but on the inside, it's just work and a way to generate ad revenue. So congratulations, you helped someone sell some more ads... and your mediocre software on these download sites? Yup, more ad revenue.) His ego and self-identity has become based on what he believes of himself. In my experience, people with beliefs of this sort will literally fight to the death to defend them.

    He has demonstrated the inability to control himself as demonstrated by his wild and unyielding attacks. (Attacks with assertions of victory from a battle no less) He has also demonstrated a complete failure to appreciate what his actions look like to the rest of the world. This makes him delusional and egocentric with tendencies favoring egomania.

    This guy is seriously disturbing to watch. A person in this position has his entire identity built up on delusion. For him to "get better" he would first have to discard the biggest part of his own sense of self-identity and that's not an easy thing to do and for most, quite impossible. People learn some hard lessons in life with regards to serious changes in understanding of one's self and the world around them -- simple things like relationships and ideology -- things that people often experience at some point in life or another. And those changes represent only a small portion of what is considered to be character and identity. What we are witnessing is something much larger. We are witnessing at least 10 years of delusion and obsessive, combative behavior seemingly without rest.

    His fight to defend and preserve his ego is primarily a battle taking place within himself. This explains why he is unable to recognize that a single response to another user is not enough or that others do not feel the need to respond or the sense of urgency he feels. He is not fighting other people -- people who only visit here once in a while. He is fighting an enemy that will never leave his side and has been there unrelentingly.

    In a way, he is a star. His self-image is currently being supported by the pressure created by his burning inner-struggle. This cannot go on indefinitely and given the heat of his inner-struggle, it is doomed to burn out sooner rather than later. And when that happens, his self-image will collapse on itself. If he is lucky, he will have some family that will help him through the recovery.

    I find it hard to imagine, though, a person such as this actually having any family left as his behavior isn't limited to slashdot as demonstrated earlier, and likely isn't limited to the internet. These types of personality struggles have a way of manifesting themselves in all aspects of life as this is a matter of identity and not merely "online identity."

    APK, if you want help, ask for it. Your obsessive, aggressive and likely violent personality does not affect me the way you think it does. It inspires fascination in me mostly... and perhaps a little pity too. If you have any family left, go seek them out. If not, I can't imagine where you might turn as it is a foregone conclusion at this point that you have no friends.

  93. Uh, NO thank U (heterosexual here): Profanity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Profanity ridden replies? Indicative of "geek angst" & embarassment leading to "FrUsTrAtiOn" on YOUR part!

    "3) fuck you" -

    And, there you have it - further evidence of tomhudson's "trollish ways" in ac stalker/troller replies up above, in using profanity!

    (One of the "last resorts" of TROLLS too: The illogical adhominem attack! Right up there with "writing style critiques" (which he tried "levelling my way" here also - typical troll, & STALE BORING trolling techniques of that nature are child's play to turn aside with FACTS & LOGIC!))

    Facts & logic are the destroyer of trolls like yourself tomhudson, everytime (especially when they produce evidence that "sinks your ship" as the URL link below does next):

    The troll further reveals itself below... in the link/url posted!

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36508744

    Especially the evidence in that link how your "trolltalk.com" team o' trolls do BOGUS UP MODERATIONS OF YOURSELVES, and, DOWN MODERATIONS OF OTHERS!

    (That's DISHONEST - LOW... you are TRULY scum!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Give up already tomhudson - after all:

    Your OWN WORDS quoted above in the link provided DESTROY YOU, you only did that, to yourself!

    Should've NEVER tried "taking me on", period... this is the end as I told you.

    (So... quit trolling me via ac replies, as you have been for a year now as evidenced in the link above no less: Yes, alongside gmhowell, links showed that but... Even gmhowell has ceased it by agreement with myself, & could be reasoned with (then again, he's a man who says he will keep his word, & cease trolling me & I will do the same in return!))

    That's what guys, decent guys, do...( instead of what I call a "not man" (i.e. -> whimps & weasels) - & thus, clearly more logical than women are, usually!)

    ... apk

    1. Re:Uh, NO thank U (heterosexual here): Profanity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please just go away. Please, I'm begging you.

      Sit in the corner for a while and reflect deeply on your history of interaction with others.

      Try to avoid falling into a spiral of depression when you comprehend why no one likes you.

  94. Re: "Take them [AVM] to the cleaners, Harald!" by walter_f · · Score: 1

    Well said. Agreed to and supported here.

  95. You only did this to yourself, tomhudson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NO, & why? Well, tomhudson (you) KNOW why:

    ---

    #1

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    ("3 strikes, YOU'RE OUT" in my book)

    ---

    Between THAT above, which you did to myself for a YEAR++ here, & how you & yours from trolltalk.com (proven here - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36519462 ) operate?

    Hey: GOOGLE doesn't lie about your sockpuppet troll countertrolling either (& he's below again next as well in addition to this) -> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=countertrolling+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Google+Search !

    You also screw with people, & bogusly cheat to do "UP" moderations of yourselves, during your trolling attacks above, and "DOWN" moderations of those you troll!

    Proof?

    Ok, countertrolling your sockpuppet again:

    countertrolling illustrates the "cheater mechanics" you use to do so -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2245866&cid=36491652

    * NOW, all you have to do, is agree like gmhowell did (another of your "trolltalk.com" trollng crew around here on slashdot -> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gmhowell+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Search ) to stop trolling me via ac replies http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2251620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=0 & "alles ist goot", capish?

    (Yes, it's THAT simple: Again - YOU & Yours stop trolling me via ac replies as you have for a year or more now, I stop exposing you & your trolltalk.com trollers here to other /.'ers!)

    * Above all else here/BOTTOM-LINE:

    You only did this, to yourself tomhudson, so quit trying to "beg" & also play "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /." here... you can only blame yourself.

    APK

    P.S.=> You're trash online, troll... there's NO doubt about it! Take your own advice, because people only take SO MUCH before they do something about it, as I have here in exposing you & yours from "trolltalk.co

  96. erroneus: Do U have a PHD in Psychiatry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. Quit playing "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /." then, because you're libeling me. Period/End Game, on that account.

    "He is truly the most disturbed person I have witnessed online ever" - by erroneus (253617) on Wednesday June 22, @02:50AM (#36524750) Homepage

    See the above: Do "drink it in, & digest it", because it helps wash it all down for you, with "the bitter taste of defeat" here where I destroyed your further attempts @ libeling me here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    6 times in a ROW, & on every so-called libelous "point" of yours you tried to make to libel myself...

    (Give up already!)

    After all: YOU CAME HERE TROLLING ME FIRST, remember -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36511132 )

    ---

    "Trolls do no focus or stalk their targets" - by erroneus (253617) on Wednesday June 22, @02:50AM (#36524750) Homepage

    Perhaps not, but, people who get trolled first & libeled, do... they fight back (apparently something you're not used to, eh?):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    And, you only did that, to yourself...

    * Funny how you do NOT dispute any of it (because there are supporting links behind every thing I said, unlike your libelous fictions you direct MY way).

    APK

    P.S.=> Above all else? This sure provoked a "ReAcTiOn" out of you, now didn't it?? LOL, yes, it did!

    Embarassing how I "shot you down in flames" on EVERY SINGLE BIT OF LIBEL YOU HAVE DIRECTED MY WAY eh?

    (See last link above, proofs all right there, and like your usual vs. myself? U RAN... U FAIL!)

    ... apk

  97. erroneus, have you done more in computing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, period... all U do is FAIL vs. myself http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    After trolling me first here no less -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36511132

    ---

    "Given that he perpetually cites mediocre programming and having an article or two published, he thinks he is a celebrity and that everyone should kneel to his glory." - by erroneus (253617) on Wednesday June 22, @02:50AM (#36524750) Homepage

    NO - I only use it to humiliate "ne'er-do-well" trolls like yourself, who despite posting on /.'s forums in the computer sections, have never done a damned thing worth noting (and doing that ALWAYS provokes the reaction "your kind" gives, as you are now)!

    It does so, & with ease, by asking the question I did above... pushing your buttons? Cake!

    ( Seems to work: After all, Look @ your "delusions of grandeur" FoAMiNg @ the MouTh "ReAcTiOn" miles long, lol... complete w/ your unqualified "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /." so-called psychoanalysis)

    * Hilarious...

    APK

    P.S.=> erroneOus: You started it, & I just finish it, as always... & like your usual? U FAIL, & U RAN (especially from the 6 points I shot you down on, cold, in the top most link above)

    ... apk

  98. "Pot calling the kettle black" now, erroneOus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You came here trolling me first here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&cid=36511132

    That's in regard to this false statement of yours:

    "He has demonstrated the inability to control himself as demonstrated by his wild and unyielding attacks" - by erroneus (253617) on Wednesday June 22, @02:50AM (#36524750) Homepage

    * LOL, oh man - look @ your "mile long" & "FoAmiNg @ TeH MouTh" reaction, & tell us another one, ok?

    (I can't stop laughing... lol!)

    APK

    P.S.=> ROTFLMAO! Best part was "shooting you down in flames" & watching you do your usual: U FAIL & U RAN vs. the 6 points I have shot you down on, yet again, as well -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    ... apk

  99. No? I didn't think so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will stop...

    No you won't.

    And I am not, and never claimed to be, tomhudson. I like my dick too well to cut it off and dress as a woman. Go put yours in a meat grinder, you sanctimonious cunt.

  100. Ah, yes: Std. Troll "last resort" =- profanity! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Go put yours in a meat grinder, you sanctimonious cunt." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 22, @01:19PM (#36531224)

    LMAO - is that the "best you've got"? Please... like I said here earlier?? You're using the "last resort of trolls" - profanity laden adhominem attacks!

    LOL!

    (Now, I'm wondering what EXACTLY "set you off" so badly in the post of mine you replied to?? I have to check, it's probably KEY to your "puny brain", lol!)

    See - I hate trolls, especially tomhudson & his trolltalk.com bunch (some of them are cooling it though, they're reasonable (albeit, only after you practically hold a gun to their heads)).

    Just for what they are & do, especially when they can't take what they themselves dish out. However, I do love "pushing their buttons" in retrollings... you bring it on yourselves, trolls.

    ---

    "I like my dick too well to cut it off" - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 22, @01:19PM (#36531224)

    Hey - no arguments from me! Sure, you're happy (SMALL, but happy, lol!)... & I am certain you like it, but your right hand doesn't like the friction burns & callouses you put onto it though, lmao... speaking of cutting then? CUT YOUR RIGHT HAND SOME SLACK!

    (ROTFLMAO!)

    ---

    "And I am not, and never claimed to be, tomhudson." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 22, @01:19PM (#36531224)

    LOL, see you don't HAVE to... tomhudson already CLAIMED HE'S YOU (trolling me, as ac stalking/trolling replies, & not once, Not Twice, BUT 3 TIMES!)

    * See below... so much for that, lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> Tomhudson actually CLAIMED TO BE YOU, lol, not the other way around... proof:

    PROOF #1 (tomhudson is a trolltalk.com troller):

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=tomhudson+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Google+Search

    ---

    PROOF #2 (the trolltalk.com trollers do tricks to downmoderate others and upmod themselves in packs, illustrated by countertrolling a "pal" of tomhudson's):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2245866&cid=36491652

    ---

    PROOF #3 (countertrolling is also a trolltalk.com troller):

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=countertrolling+site%3A+trolltalk.com&btnG=Search

    ---

    ... apk

  101. Whoops: Was LAFFING 2 HARD last time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's where tomhudson claimed he is YOU, not vice-a-versa as you said:

    "And I am not, and never claimed to be, tomhudson. I like my dick too well to cut it off and dress as a woman. Go put yours in a meat grinder, you sanctimonious cunt." - - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 22, @01:19PM (#36531224)

    Yea, I know... trolls like you are just NOT exactly 'brain-surgeons" but you MUST BE FEMALE (chicks HATE the "C" word, almost universally)... after all, look @ the profanity!

    AND??

    LMAO - YOU? You have it in reverse!

    tomhudson claims he is you, an ac trolling/stalking slime online:

    ---

    PROOF #1

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    PROOF #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    PROOF #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    You only did this, to yourself, tomhudson, nobody else!

    APK

  102. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From what I've been seeing from the links posted as well as what was said by both parties, you seem jealous. You can't show you've done anything good yourself in comparison when asked and the other party posted links that show you start trouble here with he trolling he. I think because he also was shown to have gotten the best of you here more than once you have a chip on your shoulder. Your rant is very telling about yourself as well. Get over it. Grow up.

  103. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    That would be incorrect. I never post AC. I state my position and move on.

    The behavior is the issue I point out. No one could be jealous of having lack of impulse control or impatience waiting for a response. To one comment, APK will respond 6 or more times and when he doesn't get a response, he will seek out other threads to insert childish taunts. The links linked to, I hadn't even looked at until now and it turns out he links to things other than what I wrote. So it's bad enough he goes after anything I write, he thinks I am responsible for much more.

    I do find it interesting that his perceptions of "shooting down in flames" and "fail and run" are nothing more than not being interested in continuing a discussion further.

    If I were angry or upset, I would not hide it. In this case, I just think he is nuts and it would seem my research into the matter indicates a pattern of this behavior all over the net. And to be clear, this behavior is not socially typical and is considered by textbooks to be indication of an abnormal mental state.

    Am I wrong? Is his behavior "normal"? Do we see this sort of behavior for most people? And does the behavior not match up against the classical definition of egomania? If I am wrong in these observations, I would like someone to cite specifics as to why it is wrong. And given the age of this thread, I'm pretty certain that it is you, apk, who made the reply I am replying to. You're far too obvious.

  104. More proof of tomhudson @ trolltalk.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    (From webmistressrachel, tomhudson's pal in fact)

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    That really truly "puts the FINAL nail in your coffins", bigtime - lol, & from "one of your own" no less...

    Want more? YOU GOT IT!

    Here's more, from your friend Jeremiah Cornelius, another trolltalk.com member, & pal to tomhudson also, from that very same exchange (after webmistressrachel tried to say there's no forums there on trolltalk.com no less):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2245062&cid=36469928

    PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCEPT:

    "Join us all on Troll Talk, this Tues. ;-)" - by Jeremiah Cornelius (137) on Thursday June 16, @08:26PM (#36469928) Homepage Journal

    APK

    P.S.=> Proof's in the pudding... apk

  105. And you got BLOWN AWAY point by point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doubletalk all you wish but you're still a "trolling ne'er-do-well", period. This gets funnier still next below:

    "That would be incorrect. I never post AC. I state my position and move on." - by erroneus (253617) on Thursday June 23, @06:18AM (#36539424) Homepage

    Your "position" is on your knees now, to me, point by point:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452'

    vs. all your b.s. (because it doesn't stand up very well vs. documented facts, AND technical information I put out to back myself vs. your libel)... lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> Yes - THUS, You had to try to "resort to libel" like the typical troll does... lol!

    U FAIL!

    Just as you always have, vs. myself in the past also, which is WHY you're trying this (your "geek angst" & you can't handle being blown away, everytime, when you try to "take me on"... lol!)

    Such as here also:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32556164

    On Windows Uptime ( @ NASDAQ 24x7 too, with Windows working as the "official trade data dissemination system")

    AND here too:

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32525656

    On Windows 7 having less known unpatched bugs than Linux kernel 2.6x AND, your inability to show workarounds as I did for Windows 7 2 bugs @ that time no less vs. more in Linux

    (Still the same too to this day no less from SECUNIA.COM data, in fact, 3.5x less unpatched bugs for Windows 7 & that's an ENTIRE OS, not just a kernel (Linux would be worse off with the bugs in the distros other parts attached by FAR))

    ... apk

  106. Errone0s' motivations ("geek angst", lol) listed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ErroneOus failed trolling me before twice:

    #1 PROOF:

    On Windows Uptime ( @ NASDAQ 24x7 too, with Windows working as the "official trade data dissemination system" where it's been up, solid, 24x7 for YEARS now (almost a decade via clustering))

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32556164

    Which ErroneOus couldn't disprove!

    (Man - lol, it's been bothering him ALL THIS TIME, & he came he trolling saying "we all have problems with APK" yea... you do! I disprove your bullshit and you can't handle it! LMAO... )

    ---

    AND here too:

    #2 PROOF:

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32525656

    On Windows 7 having less known unpatched bugs than Linux kernel 2.6x AND, your inability to show workarounds as I did for Windows 7 2 bugs @ that time no less vs. more in Linux again, kernel only, NOT AN ENTIRE DISTRO EVEN (vs. Windows 7, a complete OS 'distro').

    (Still the same too to this day no less from SECUNIA.COM data, in fact, 3.5x less unpatched bugs for Windows 7 & that's an ENTIRE OS, not just a kernel (Linux would be worse off with the bugs in the distros other parts attached by FAR))

    APK

    P.S.=> ErroneOus, as-per-YOUR-usual, vs. myself? U FAIL... hugely!

    Those fails show why you came here too, lol, you "geek angst" only got the best of you, as I did... lol!

    ErroneOus FAILS YET AGAIN, & only to be "SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES" yet again vs. myself... such as here in 6 points that utterly "blew you away":

    #3 PROOF:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    Where you tried to libel me also... pitiful!

    ... apk

  107. Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (greed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    This is just like how GMHOWELL's name came up from Jeremiah Cornelius telling me his 1st name was George while JC trolled me no less (that's there in that exchange also)...

    MOST amusing how you trolltalk.com fools are "spilling the beans" on one another as I question you people from trolltalk.com, & everytime... lol!

    (Hilarious but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!)

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> Which is WHY of course, tomhudson began his tirade to try to libel myself here and stalk me as well on this forums... he hates HOSTS because they can be used to block out adverts online (which in turn, speeds one up massively, and, can protect one vs. malicious code in adbanners too from 1 easily edited text file):

    PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid

    1. Re:Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (GREED) by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Hey, hey, APK,
      Never lets reality get in the way!

      So, please explain to everyone how giving away GPL'd software from a site that has never carried any ads (no adwords, no banners, etc) makes me a greedy advertiser.

      BTW - I'm not libeling you when I call you a useless idiot - it's simply the truth. Why not pull your head out of your rectum for a while and experience reality as something other than an ass-klingon?

      Maybe when I'm finished with Starmedia, I should give you the same treatment ... nah, you and your stupid hosts file are too much of a joke for anyone to take seriously. Go HOSTS yourself.

      This troll post is a public service from the "Keep APK off the streets and barking at the moon" consortium. Feel free to contribute.

  108. Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (greed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    This is just like how GMHOWELL's name came up from Jeremiah Cornelius telling me his 1st name was George while JC trolled me no less (that's there in that exchange also)...

    MOST amusing how you trolltalk.com fools are "spilling the beans" on one another as I question you people from trolltalk.com, & everytime... lol!

    (Hilarious but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!)

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> Which is WHY of course, tomhudson began his tirade to try to libel myself here and stalk me as well on this forums... he hates HOSTS because they can be used to block out adverts online (which in turn, speeds one up massively, and, can protect one vs. malicious code in adbanners too from 1 easily edited text file):

    PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid

  109. Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (greed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    This is just like how GMHOWELL's name came up from Jeremiah Cornelius telling me his 1st name was George while JC trolled me no less (that's there in that exchange also)...

    MOST amusing how you trolltalk.com fools are "spilling the beans" on one another as I question you people from trolltalk.com, & everytime... lol!

    (Hilarious but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!)

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> Which is WHY of course, tomhudson began his tirade to try to libel myself here and stalk me as well on this forums... he hates HOSTS because they can be used to block out adverts online (which in turn, speeds one up massively, and, can protect one vs. malicious code in adbanners too from 1 easily edited text file):

    PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid

  110. Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (greed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    This is just like how GMHOWELL's name came up from Jeremiah Cornelius telling me his 1st name was George while JC trolled me no less (that's there in that exchange also)...

    MOST amusing how you trolltalk.com fools are "spilling the beans" on one another as I question you people from trolltalk.com, & everytime... lol!

    (Hilarious but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!)

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> Which is WHY of course, tomhudson began his tirade to try to libel myself here and stalk me as well on this forums... he hates HOSTS because they can be used to block out adverts online (which in turn, speeds one up massively, and, can protect one vs. malicious code in adbanners too from 1 easily edited text file):

    PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid

  111. Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (GREED) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    This is just like how GMHOWELL's name came up from Jeremiah Cornelius telling me his 1st name was George while JC trolled me no less (that's there in that exchange also)...

    MOST amusing how you trolltalk.com fools are "spilling the beans" on one another as I question you people from trolltalk.com, & everytime... lol!

    (Hilarious but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!)

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> Which is WHY of course, tomhudson began his tirade to try to libel myself here and stalk me as well on this forums... he hates HOSTS because they can be used to block out adverts online (which in turn, speeds one up massively, and, can protect one vs. malicious code in adbanners too from 1 easily edited text file):

    PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    and of course, tomhudson's numerous FAILING "attacks" on points on HOSTS files I put up as well afterwards!

    * UTTERLY HILARIOUS - not only is tomhudson a troll, but also a greedy slime who will do ANYTHING (including stalk, troll, & harass) to keep those pennies coming in, lmao!

    You only did this, to yourself, tomhudson, nobody else!

    ... apk

  112. tomhudson still stalkin-N-trolling by ac replies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why? tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof below & thanks webmistressrachel, & this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    This is just like how GMHOWELL's name came up from Jeremiah Cornelius telling me his 1st name was George while JC trolled me no less (that's there in that exchange also)...

    MOST amusing how you trolltalk.com fools are "spilling the beans" on one another as I question you people from trolltalk.com, & everytime... lol!

    (Hilarious but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!)

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> Which is WHY of course, tomhudson began his tirade to try to libel myself here and stalk me as well on this forums... he hates HOSTS because they can be used to block out adverts online (which in turn, speeds one up massively, and, can protect one vs. malicious code in adbanners too from 1 easily edited text file):

    PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    and of course, tomhudson's numerous FAILING "attacks" on points on HOSTS files I put up as well afterwards!

    * UTTERLY HILARIOUS - not only is tomhudson a troll, but also a greedy slime who will do ANYTHING (including stalk, troll, & harass) to keep those pennies coming in, lmao!

    You only did this, to yourself, tomhudson, nobody else!

    ... apk

  113. Now, ErroneOus' motivations? Geek Angst! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ErroneOus failed trolling me before twice & is still "stinging" apparently, hence his libel above... based on his "Geek Angst":

    #1 PROOF:

    On Windows Uptime ( @ NASDAQ 24x7 too, with Windows working as the "official trade data dissemination system" where it's been up, solid, 24x7 for YEARS now (almost a decade via clustering))

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32556164

    Which ErroneOus couldn't disprove!

    (Man - lol, it's been bothering him ALL THIS TIME, & he came he trolling saying "we all have problems with APK" yea... you do! I disprove your bullshit and you can't handle it! LMAO... )

    ---

    AND here too:

    #2 PROOF:

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32525656

    On Windows 7 having less known unpatched bugs than Linux kernel 2.6x AND, your inability to show workarounds as I did for Windows 7 2 bugs @ that time no less vs. more in Linux again, kernel only, NOT AN ENTIRE DISTRO EVEN (vs. Windows 7, a complete OS 'distro').

    (Still the same too to this day no less from SECUNIA.COM data, in fact, 3.5x less unpatched bugs for Windows 7 & that's an ENTIRE OS, not just a kernel (Linux would be worse off with the bugs in the distros other parts attached by FAR))

    APK

    P.S.=> ErroneOus, as-per-YOUR-usual, vs. myself? U FAIL... hugely!

    Those fails show why you came here too, lol, you "geek angst" only got the best of you, as I did... lol!

    ErroneOus FAILS YET AGAIN, & only to be "SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES" yet again vs. myself... such as here in 6 points that utterly "blew you away":

    #3 PROOF: (this very thread itself)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    Where you tried to libel me also... pitiful!

    ... apk

  114. Why tomhudson hates HOSTS files (greed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER!!! Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies (ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even):

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    Hilarious (but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!) & the amazing lengths you went to were incredible (see my p.s. below where you ac stalked & trolled me + told others to do so as well). Bad, bad, bad tomhudson, lol!

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    and of course, tomhudson's numerous

  115. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by tomhudson · · Score: 1

    Every once in a while, I'll yank his chain, and I've gotten him so paranoid that he now accuses almost any AC poster as being mine. He's totally obsessed with me, and it's funny, because it just makes it all the more apparent that he's not all there.

    Like his accusing me of greed for giving away code that I wrote and license under the GPL. Funny definition of greed, as in "funny == sicko".

    I've been ignoring him for a while, but I guess it's time to do my share of keeping him busy and off the streets by giving him a random kick in the head (though in his paranoid world I've supposedly replied to him dozens or even hundreds of times in the past weeks, when in reality, I was too busy doing an expose on starmedia to even notice him).

  116. Why'd U stalk/troll him + tell others to also? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's documented in his reply tom in your own words. Explain.

    1. Re:Why'd U stalk/troll him + tell others to also? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Look at the timestamps, apk. You're the one stalking me, not the other way around. Always has been, always will be. You're obsessed with me, and yet, I hardly ever notice you, because unlike you, I'm not stuck in some fantasy past.

      Now go cry to mama, because you even suck at trolling.

      And please explain how giving away gpl code is greedy. Don't duck the issue, you useless turd.

  117. Why'd U stalk/troll him & tell others to also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's documented in his reply tom in your own words. Also, do you make monies from the adverts? Yes or no.

  118. U fail on HOSTS when U trolled though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Documented in his reply also. Are you paid by adverts webmistressrachel noted by quote also there as well?

  119. Are U paid on adverts @ trolltalk.com? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Answer that simple question, YES or NO.

  120. We saw your UR saying to ac troll apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not other way around. Adhominem attacks aren't cutting it. Do you make monies from adverts on trolltalk.com, YES or NO?

  121. tomhudson: R U paid by adverts @ trolltalk.com? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Answer the question, YES or NO.

    tomhudson = GREEDY ADVERTISER? Proof's below, & thank-you webmistressrachel, and this post shows later below what lengths he'll go to for protecting his pennies!

    (E.G.-> ac trolling & stalking of myself, + libeling myself even, as he is undoubtedly doing again now, as it is the only thing he knows when "ReAcTiNg" while trolling as ac replies, lol!)

    Oh wait, I also forgot to include showing you you also pull bogus downmods of others & upmods of yourselves as well (via your pal, countertrolling's statement here, on the bogus mechanics of that much also -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2245866&cid=36491652 )

    I really want to stress this to you apk, (and whilst doing so needle tomhudson about it!) trolltalk isn't a forum anymore. It's an advert for TomHudson's...software. - by webmistressrachel (903577) on Wednesday June 22, @01:28PM (#36531394) Journal

    QUOTED FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36531394

    Hilarious (but... that's what you get for being obnoxious trolls whose motivation is GREED apparently!) & the amazing lengths you went to were incredible (see my p.s. below where you ac stalked & trolled me + told others to do so as well). Bad, bad, bad tomhudson, lol!

    ---

    TOM HUDSON'S "FAIL LIST" ON DISPROVING MY POINTS ON HOSTS FILES NUMEROUS TIMES:

    (Since HOSTS can block adverts online/adbanners so you get more speed, &, so you are protected vs. malicious content in online adbanners also)

    ---

    tomhudson bullshit on HOSTS is outnumbered 30:1 vs. apk evidences:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35847946

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED on DNS vs. HOSTS and CPU cycles/memory & more used on HIS "ideas" vs. HOSTS vs. apk's ideas:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2087330&cid=35879374

    ---

    tomhudson BURNED & RAN on HOSTS vs. VIRUSES vs. myself yet again:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35877448

    ---

    tomhudson says "hosts are so 90's" & apk's fellow RESPECTED security person wrote a noted article on them in 2009: (based on his readings of MY posts in forums no less)

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2088808&cid=35876806

    ---

    And others also...

    APK

    P.S.=> PROOF/EVIDENCES THEREOF in tomhudson calling me the HOSTS FILE TROLL etc. & stating to his trolltalk.com pals to stalk & troll me via AC replies:

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM ->

  122. tomhudson: R U paid by adverts @ trolltalk.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YES or NO will do, answer the simple question on if you are earning monies from adverts on or coming out of trolltalk.com...

    APK

  123. tomhudson: Do U earn money from trolltalk.com? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Answer YES or NO. We know U do adbanners + stalk & troll others (from "trollStalk.com")

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    They should call it "trollStalk.com"

  124. tomhudson: Do U earn ANY $ from trolltalk.com? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Answer YES or NO. We know U do adbanners + stalk & troll others (from "trollStalk.com")

    ---

    "Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme". - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    #2

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    "The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    #3

    "if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously" - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    ---

    They should call it "trollStalk.com"

    Lets find out if his site is making him anything or just a waste of his time also.

  125. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Heh... greed.... nice. If that's a problem for him, then he shouldn't allow his wares to be distributed on services that sell advertising which is pretty much all of them. In fact, the articles written by him are also advertising driven. Somehow he really thinks this is some sort of competitive dick-sizing fight arena where everything he says is some sort of [violent reference] response of some kind that "blows people away."

    This guy operates under his real name. It's unfortunate for him. This is a publicly available forum. Any employer or anyone who might hire him to do something can and will easily search his name out on the web. They will find this stuff and they will find all the stuff I pointed out and more. He has really put himself at a disadvantage here. And he somehow believes that "being right" is enough justification and vindication but that's not how it works in life. You get into a car accident and even though it's not your fault, your insurance rates will go up with or without good justification... same for bar fights -- maybe not your fault, but you were involved. And if an employer sees this, it won't matter what he thinks his justification may be, they will see this insanity for themselves and decide it's better to keep their distance.

  126. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by tomhudson · · Score: 1
    The funny thing is I have never had any paid advertising on any of my sites - the only banners I ever ran were for things like the "get firefox" campaign, just like a lot of us did. We did this because we believe in GPL software and FLOSS principles, and we didn't receive a single penny, nor did we want to. The "warm fuzzies" was good enough.

    He would have known this if he had used a modern ad blocker instead of his stupid hosts file. He could have just disabled ad blocking on the site for a minute and seen that he had been totally p0wned by Rachel (all she did was exploit his willingness to lie and believe the worst of anyone when it suits his own warped purposes - and only after saying plenty of times that she was trolling him).

    Of course, if I *had* been making money from http://starmedia.trolltalk.com/ (as an example), there's nothing inherently wrong with that. That link is an ongoing example of citizen journalism, and I had to fight with my hosting company to reinstate it on that basis after starmedia's owner complained about my exposing his frauds. Reporters in other media make money off their journalistic endeavors, just as they do on the Internet. I choose not to. Who knows, maybe in some future alternate reality I'll become a rich and famous investigative reporter, (yeah, right :-) but right now, it's about exposing fraud and doing the right thing, not about monetization.

    I certainly don't look down on traditional journalists - I'm meeting with one next week to discuss the whole starmedia mess as well as get a preview the stuff I haven't published yet. This is the future of news - cooperative, as well as competitive. It's about negotiating with hosting companies to not shut you down when a scammer complains that you're ruining their "business model," but instead acknowledge that citizen journalism is part of the common good and as such overrides any limitation of the TOS. It's about having other slashdotters ready to mirror your reporting if censorship stays in place. It's about reporting stuff even when it means you open yourself up to lawsuits, because it's the right thing to do.

    Plenty of people run ads on their sites to take at least some of the financial bite out of it. I don't. Not because there's anything wrong with it in principle, I just haven't bothered to consider it, in part because of privacy concerns with ad-tracking/user-tracking. Ad servers that track you from site to site are just plain wrong, and I'll never have anything to do with them. The old-fashioned "pay per view with no tracking" I have no similar ethical issues with, but right now, I want to focus on other stuff instead.

    APK (Alexander Philip Kowalski) has serious issues, he's been cyberstalking me for some time, and his "reality" needs some serious meds. He should do himself and the world a favor and go HOSTS file himself :-)

  127. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't look like that tom. You libeled and trolled he as ac posts from what I saw. Have you lost your mind? I've read some of your replies and you are losing it. Calm down.

  128. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    You may note his excessive and repetitive use of the term "libel." You may want to look up the term in detail to see where anything you have said can be considered such. I have and so far, everything I have said is in direct reference to things he has said backed with my commentary which is my [let's call it 'unqualified'] opinion. I doubt I'll be target of an actual lawsuit and even if I were, his own actions are far more damning than anything I could say here. And besides that, imagine what would happen if a slashdotter were to be sued for libel? There are more than enough supporters, vigilantes and interests here to work against anything like that from being successful.

    Still, it would be good to be sure you don't say too much of the wrong stuff and definitely don't make stuff up. Also, I linked to a page that contained his home address... probably no longer accurate after all this time, but still -- there are standards were actually publishing such information could result in adverse legal action where you would be found liable.

    But one thing about libel claims that I found most interesting is the emotional injury issue. I think we pretty much agree that this guy is more than a little "off balance." Claims of emotional injury or damage might easily fit in this case as evidence of mental and emotional issues seem pretty clear... but it would be like charging someone with arson who attempted to burn down a house that was already on fire.

  129. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson are you losing your miind? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2263468&cid=36544496 Libel that can affect someone's career is not a smart move. We all saw your posts today and you really need to calm down. I saw posts of your trolling him as anonymous coward replies but the ones you said he didn't work in the industry is a mistake. That's libel.

  130. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This quote looks like libel to me tomhudson http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992296&cid=35192078

  131. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson losing it = The boy who cried wolf.

  132. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  133. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These quotes look like you do cyberstalking tom

    Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme. - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously - by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

  134. tom this is definitely libel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992296&cid=35186644 he has worked in computing and never said a hosts file could secure a computer completely because when you were asked to show where he said it, you did not produce it. Telling lies that could adversely affect someone's livelyhood is libel tom. You seem to think trolling is cool to do. It's a form of stalking from what I have seen out of you because you told others to harass the man 3 times by anonymous coward replies which iirc is coordinated defamtion with your trolltalk.com friends involved. Not a very intelligent thing to be engaging in online tom.

    1. Re:tom this is definitely libel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Took a read of that. apk burnt tomhudson on Recovery console being able to delete locked files and on autorun being something you could have disabled years back. Small wonder tomhudson has it out for him. Apk made tomhudson out to be a fool. The libel part you're correct on. tomhudson saying apk never worked in the industry and other not so nice things is something that can harm somebody's career.

  135. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by tomhudson · · Score: 1

    I'm not the least worried. He threatened to sue me, I told him to go ahead, produced the links showing he's always making those threats and never going through with them, big talker, small doer, blah blah blah ... end result, he began making all sorts of excuses why "it's not worth it."

    Once someone says it's not worth it, they lose the right to sue for that particular event, since you can now use their own words that "it's not worth it" against them, to show that there were, at most, de minimus damages.

    It's really pitiful - the first time he tried to get away with the "I'll sue you" threat, he was claiming to have a law firm on retainer "so that it wouldn't cost him more just to sue" (he obviously doesn't know how those arrangements work). At the same time, he was explaining elsewhere that he was no longer going to pay to serve up his "hosts files" and other stuff because he wanted to save the $80 a year to buy a new graphics card instead.

    He's a joke with no punch line. A stalker who does so to try to increase his own sense of importance in the world, not realizing that everyone is laughing at him, and the more he tries to lie and bully, the more attention he draws to his eccentric, bizarre, misogynist behavior.

    He really has a problem with women proving him wrong. He cannot stand that, and resorts to childish bullying and name-calling, like any other immature pinhead.

    In my case, I really, really got his goat, and not just because I encourage others to use the same tactics against him that he uses, and that I exposed his threats as hollow bluffs (see my user profile for why he's obsessed with me personally).

  136. You're a 1 eyed cyclops that no man wants, face it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A stalking scumbag with one eye that nobody wants.

  137. Where did I say I'd sue you? U sound worried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show us a quote of my stating explicitly that I would sue you, explicitly... I never said that at all.

    I did say that based on your libeling me, and someone saying I was libeling you though?

    That I had grounds for countersuit or suit vs. yourself, & that's all.

    Now, You said I was never in the industry of computing, that I had no home, etc.? Now, that's all libel and untrue on your part, tomhudson. No questions asked.

    APK

    P.S.=> The funniest part is you think it's "Cool to Troll others" & tomhudson, it's not. It's another word for harassing them. Have you ever wondered why only other "trolls" hang around you, why you are alone with your dogs? It's because you're a miserable 1 eyed troll that harasses others online. Face it. NO man wants you... and you KNOW it, lol!

    ... apk

  138. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're the one resorting to name calling tom. Hypocrite much?

  139. erroneus makes blackmail threat on slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2261720&cid=36545928 Is it because you trolled someone http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452 and they shot you down on every so called point you tried to make and they did it with documented facts anyone could see? I saw you run like a whipped dog 10 times there in fact, and for starting trouble with others you threaten to blackmail? Very intelligent (not)

  140. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love how he pretends to be a third party, commenting on the thread against you... as if ANYONE is interested besides him!

  141. Who wrote these quoted posts tomhudson? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson, who wrote this stating to stalk apk as ac?

    Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme. - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    QUOTED VERBATIM FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    Between you stalking & harassing apk as anonymous coward posts and your friend the blackmailer erroneus here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2261720&cid=36545928 it's not looking good anymore than your libel of him did tomhudson. You need to have your head examined tomhudson.

  142. Seems you are the bully tom, a stalking bully by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're the bully tom. You have been shown to troll harass he all over as anonymous coward replies. Your rants in trying to defend yourself? Nobody even believes you anymore troll. We all know you're a miserable, childless, barren, trolling/stalking monstrosity that's ruined her own life and is alone. Period.

  143. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also, I linked to a page that contained his home address... probably no longer accurate after all this time, but still

    You do know all that sort of stuff is public record, right?

    Oh, and the part that's really rich is if you look up the sale history of that address (http://ocfintax.ongov.net/ImateSyr/report.aspx?file=&swiscode=311500&printkey=00900000130120000000&sitetype=res&siteNum=1... click the one for public access on the login form and you'll get full access to the report). I won't spoil the surprise... but really, check it out. I bet you'll get a kick out of it.

    (Sale history is near the bottom of the report... oh, and the Heat Type that's listed under Utilities almost made me spit coffee on my keyboard too.)

  144. That I disproved (it's erroneus posting as ac) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which erroneus ran from in subsequent posts beneath yours here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    Then when you were retrolled on it here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2261720&cid=36545928 you even made an obvious blackmail attempt out of your geek angst.

  145. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    seems you're interested and trolling as ac again tomhudson. Plenty of posts here show how you do with your words quoted that you do to apk to harass and stalk him.

  146. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL! delusional bonehead.

    Seems every AC other than you is tomhudson, huh?

    If you're not APK, then SIGN your AC posts, bonehead.

      - Neal

  147. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jorge Bastida = a pudgy going bald piefaced worm -> http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/532361793/yocuadrado.jpg

  148. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jorge Bastida = a pudgy going bald piefaced worm -> http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/532361793/yocuadrado.jpg

  149. erroneus makes blackmail threats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  150. erroneus Jorge makes blackmail threats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  151. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jorge Bastida = a pudgy going bald piefaced worm -> http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/532361793/yocuadrado.jpg

    That dude seriously looks pretty damn handsome. I suspect you're just jealous.

  152. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To a homosexual that likes fat, bald FAIL posters pershaps. Jorge may may be himself, who knows? I don't judge, and not homosexual myself. You say a guy's handsome, when you're probably a male yourself because women generally are such a minority on geek forums like this the odds are that you're another male and doubtless his lover, lol!

  153. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha, you need to work on your writing but you have a point.

  154. Re:tomhudson's "ethics" here @ /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quit projecting strange homosexual desires & ask him out then. He may even accept and you get lucky too. Who knows?

  155. -1 Offtopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That I disproved (it's erroneus posting as ac) ... Which erroneus ran from in subsequent posts beneath yours here

    What the hell did that have to do with the post you replied to? Namely, this:

    a page that contained his home address... probably no longer accurate after all this time, but still ... You do know all that sort of stuff is public record, right? ... http://ocfintax.ongov.net/ImateSyr/report.aspx?file=&swiscode=311500&printkey=00900000130120000000&sitetype=res&siteNum=1

  156. Spoken like a true homophobe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To a homosexual that likes fat, bald FAIL posters pershaps. ... You say a guy's handsome, when you're probably a male yourself

    What's the matter, APK... you can't admit when another man is good-looking cause you're afraid you'll get a woody or something? According to this link homophobia is associated with homosexual arousal. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014 sounds like you're probably a closet fag, APK.

    And learn to fucking spell, dickwad. "pershaps"? Not only are you a closet fag but you're apparently an idiot too.

  157. More ac replies, eh? Not homosexual here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm also no homophobe. I have friends who're homosexuals over time in fact. In the end, they're just human beings that can't help themselves & part of their nature (found that out by talking to a gay friend of mine asking him WHY he was as he is).

    APK

    P.S.=> So, I can accept that (but I don't exactly like it, but what is one supposed to do?), but I cannot accept erroneus' libeling myself and running from data that disproves it with backing documentations shown in this exchange above... apk

  158. Not buying it - your comments speak for themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not homosexual here

    I'm also no homophobe.

    Sure you may claim that but your homophobic comments & accusing other people of being homosexuals because they think someone is good looking prove otherwise. It's obvious that you're a homophobe & clearly closeted faggot as well, that's why you have so much rage and hatred toward people who you think might be homosexuals or who are transsexuals (like tomhudson) and also toward women like webmistressrachel... attacking someone because they were raped? That's low even for a piece of human filth like you, apk. More like non-human filth, if you ask me. Who knows? A sociopath like you wouldn't surprise me if you end up in prison eventually, so maybe you'll learn what rape is really like (and have your secret homosexual fantasies fulfilled, too, most likely).

  159. Re:Not buying it - your comments speak for themsel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry to disappoint you: Not gay here, so I am not "on the menu, go find yourself another dish", ok? I could care less if someone is gay though - they're just how they are!

    (Somewhat "messed up", to be honest imo psychologically, because sex is functionally about procreation, & men cannot get pregnant period (normally @ least, lol))

    I've talked to my friends over time who turned up that way, & they said "why do you like women sexually?" & I said "it's just how I am"... they said "there you go" & I understood!

    They go through a lot of crap about it, but your accusing me of being gay? Come on, lol... clue/new News/NEWFLASH:

    * I, apk, am not gay/homosexual, period, normal heterosexual male here

    (So... there you go & in nice bold letters too!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Now, You can try to make me out as gay all you like, suit yourself, but I am not. Being called "gay" here doesn't bother me - I know I am not (lol, & my past history proves that much easily).

    Still - IF that's all you've got apparently, & libeling me above after I disproved all "so called points" based on people word's from arstechnica in Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little?

    Dumb move!

    Both Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little of arstechnica (@ the time for Little, don't know about now) did these things to myself repeatedly:

    ---

    1.) Death Threasts (APK MUST DIE) publicly online which was removed by CrystalTech.com & Reimer's ISP in NY State no less when he did his OSY/Pegasus forums there had him remove my personal information from email I did not give he permission to post,

    2.) Libel (Jeremy Reimer posted edited photos of myself to harm my reputation) removed by his ISP/BSP forcibly

    3.) Stalking me site to site online (Windows IT Pro, NTCompatible.com, & others for years)

    4.) Email harassing me (which Reimer's ISP Shaw of Canada put him on a tracking ticket for)

    5.) Impersonating me on his website (which began the whole thing & I wrote Jeremy Reimer rather nicely to remove it, he ended up having to PUBLICLY ADMIT it was not I on his personal website also)

    ---

    ( & FAR more, for YEARS no less... talk about "twisted"! )

    erroneus posting it here to try to harm my reputation, when it is NOT true what he posted? LIBEL... period!

    ... apk

  160. webmistressrachel? I told her I felt sorry for her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    webmistressrachel said she was raped twice here publicly:

    "I've been left for dead after rape twice, in different towns" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36535156

    FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36535156

    (That makes that public information actually, she said it herself as well...)

    IN FACT - When I heard that, I said this in fact, quoted verbatim:

    "WoW... I am sorry to hear that you went thru some of the things you noted - that's horrible. I am truly, SO sorry..." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 22, @06:07PM (#36535614)

    FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2250914&cid=36535614

    So, so much for MORE falsehoods & LIBEL directed MY WAY by tomhudson or erroneus I suspect...

    APK

    P.S.=> You can try to make me look bad, but as usual, I will post actual documented information that proves QUITE otherwise, easily... vs. your anecdotal b.s. & libel!

    ... apk

  161. ErroneuOs is angry with himself & hence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The adhominem attacks, see here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2253808&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=36521452

    That's all...

    (See the posts beneath his, says it all, part #1 thru part #5 where I disprove his bullshit point by point & show WHY he's done that!)

    APK

    P.S.=> That photo's not I, lol, or I wouldn't be posting here... apk

  162. KNEEL to me, Neal you douche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tomhudson says it himself, douchebag, in his own words:

    ---

    Wait until he starts on another kick, then reply to him as an AC. It's the new meme. - by tomhudson (43916) on Sunday May 09 2010, @08:29PM (#32150544) Homepage Journal

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1646272&cid=32150544

    ---

    HOWTO: trolling the hosts file guy in one easy step

    The next time you see a post by him, just reply anonymously. And to really mess with his head, reply anonymously to your anonymous post, disagreeing with your first anon post (extra points if you claim in the second post that you're him - that REALLY sets him off). He'll accuse you of being me by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @01:38PM (#35841122) Homepage Journal

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086424&cid=35841122

    ---

    if you're going to tell this guy to stop spamming his hosts file crap, make sure you do it anonymously by tomhudson (43916) on Saturday April 16, @12:45PM (#35840680) Homepage Journal

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2086920&cid=35840680

    3 times tomhudson? For over a year now also?? Appears you've degnerated into a cyberstalker tomhudson, and even trying to get others to do it with you!

    ---

    Now you eat your words "Neal", & KNEEL to me... like you know you must!

  163. Erroneus = Jorge Bastida by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jorge Bastida = a pudgy going bald piefaced worm -> http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/532361793/