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Toyota Scion IQ Electric Car To Launch In 2012
Mightee writes "Toyota officially announced at an annual dealer meeting in Las Vegas that the all-electric Scion iQ will be launched next year in the United States. According to Toyota, Scion iQ can only go 50 miles on a single charge. Because of this, it will be facing tough competition from 73-mile Nissan Leaf and 85-mile Mitsubishi i."
If they price it right (ie: much cheaper than a leaf) then I'd consider it. My commute in the morning is 10 miles each way, plus add 10 miles for a trip to the grocery store and this car can take care of 90% of my driving needs. I already own a mini-van with a trailer hitch so I am covered for long trips or for towing or carrying stuff.
For a daily commuter, it looks a little small. The average size of a 'randomly selected' US commuter car is considerably bigger than this car. I love the concept, but it looks about as 'safe' as commuting via motorcycle.
Heck, at this point I'd consider a smaller car 'enclosed' in a bigger, 'safety' shell.
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
When I lived near the city center this would have been great as the second car for a couple. Really. I would have loved it, at the right price.
Not so much any more though. Our current vehicles get about 25, 20, & 8 mpg. (Don't freak out you greenies, I don't drive the 5-ton very often or very far. It's a pretty harsh ride...) So yeah, since we, current owners of 3 largish vehicles, would have considered it seriously, I'd bet there's a good market for it.
What will the range be like after 5-10 years? And what if it's a really cold winter day? I have to heat the cabin somehow.
This is my main problem with all-electric vehicles. You never really know how much range you have. And if you live in a cold climate like I do, gasoline engines are really quite efficient in the winter since the "waste" heat is not wasted at all; it heats the cabin.
If you do some research about where and how they mine the minerals to make the batteries for those cars then you'll find out it's more destructive to the environment than a regular car, not to mention that much of the electricity in the USA is still produced from polluting sources.
It's not the electric car idea that's the problem, it's the energy and its storage.
How about good old electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen? Where's the problem with that?
Liquid hydrogen is the way to go. All these electric cars are just slowing down the development of hydrogen. There cars work and they work well -- BMW and Ford/Mazda have bivalent models that can switch between hydrogen and gasoline. That's what needs to be pushed onto the market, not this electric crap.
I'd be all for electric if nuclear power was common, but in my state almost all the energy is produced in coal power plants. I just don't see how that is so much different from burning gasoline. If the automotive industry is going to undergo a paradigm shift, it should be the best one available, not some half-assed compromise.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
He says his now defunct Tesla Roadster gets 250 miles per charge! And all this without any of those anal regenerative braking, and other cerebral stuffs!
According to Toyota, Scion iQ can only go 50 miles on a single charge.
Traffic? Roads? Weather?
I need to know what I can ask of the car under less than perfect conditions.
Cup holder: Check. Rear view mirrors are a nice touch but probably superfluous.
You don't need electricity or hydrocarbons, just a source of high heat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur-iodine_cycle.
The process heat could come from a solar concentrator or a next-generation high temperature reactor.
Of course then you're faced with the problems of transporting and storing hydrogen, which have solutions but not easy ones.
Subject says it all.
Deleted
Singing da-da-di, da-da-da, lala--al,alalw aht ear cut off and by by bye Sish right up and touch the sky
The infrastructure is not there yet. If I live in an apartment (city dweller?), where do I plug it in? If I have a house, but no garage, where do I plug it in.
Yes, some few companies are equipping their parking lots with plugin terminals. Very few. And as far as street side (parking meter?) plugins? I can see serious vandalism, just for the lulz.
A 50 mile range means that I have to manage the cars fuel every day. Doesn't sound like fun to me.
I love the idea of an all electric. But I just can't see it yet.
May as well buy a good used Corolla and it can be used
for that commute as well as other trips outside a 30 mile
radius.
All you idealists don't seem to grasp that the electric car just
isn't ready to replace a petroleum-fueled vehicle.
how many miles was the evacuation route?
Tesla Model S can go 160 miles on a single charge with the default battery option. It could have at least be mentioned in the summary, even if it is not "competition/"
Once again showing that there are no good batteries to be had.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
diesel electric generator powering one or two electric motors. minimal battery requirements, efficient, can use low-grade fuel, excellent mileage. is anyone even listening? trains get it.
Smart car safety is slightly overrated. If you're in a head-on collision with another car you'll take two or three times the hit as the other car because it weighs two or three times less.
OTOH most accidents aren't head-ons so it's not all bad news.
(And just to balance things ... statistics show that SUVs are *less* safe then normal cars in non-head-on collisions because they almost always flip over)
No sig today...
Since when was fun financial? Perhaps you could point me to where it's found on company accounts or bank statements, because I sure as heck can't see it anywhere.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Might as well put a lawnmower engine in it. Americans won't buy a car that gets over 10 second 0-60.
When did the Nissan LEAF's range get downgraded from 100 miles to 73 miles? Is it by the same process Top Gear used to determine the Tesla Roadster's 55 mile range, or by these guys 313 miles (official range is 244 miles). If we want to start using the actual range instead of the advertised range as the range number, can we also start using the actual mpg for cars instead of the advertised number?
For reference: I've owned a plug-in converted Prius for over a year and a half and speaking from experience, my assisted mode (electric motor constantly assisting gas engine) is roughly 32 miles. In the summer I rarely dip below 100mpg, but in winter I am lucky to get 80mpg. EV range is roughly 18 miles in summer, but it doesn't even work in winter (Prius limit, not conversion kit limit). I used $143.28 worth of electricity (including taxes and delivery fees) keeping my car charged, and filled up on gas once every 5-8 weeks.
It allows me to make my weekend trips for kids sports, shopping, and various errands near the neighbourhood without using a drop of gas. Now that I've had a taste of what an electric car would be like to own I want one. Making trips to the gas station seem so inconvenient now, my car sits in the driveway for 12-18 hours a day; sometimes it sits there all day. It sits in the parking lot at work for 8 hours a day. Why can't that time be used to trickle charge my car so I don't need gas?
The electric charging infrastructure already exists, it's pre-installed into every home and office parking lot. The same just cannot be said of hydrogen. Hydrogen isn't a power source, it's a power medium like batteries. Hydrogen cars today have a range similar to electric vehicles. The hydrogen version of the BMW 7 series has a range of about 125 miles; just 25 more than the Nissan LEAF's range (if we only use advertised ranges). The Tesla Model S can be equipped with a 300 mile battery pack for a vehicle MSRP of $77,000; the BMW is worth $1,000,000 (though is has an attractive lease option).
Hydrogen just adds a level of complexity that simply doesn't exist for electric vehicles. EVs will not replace all cars, at best today they can be a second car, or a single car for someone who lives in a town where everything is less than 30 miles away. Commuting, doing errands, short (less than 100 mile) trips is what you'd get an EV to do; if you do more of everything else (road trips, on-the-road salesman, long drives, etc) then don't buy an EV.
In 10 years i would expect it to have a range of zero, unless you changed the batteries on schedule.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There's a thing called wikipedia that will help. In case it doesn't I'll give the example of the fertilizer works near me that gets their hydrogen by reforming the gas that comes from an oilfield.
That just went out of business.
This car gets 100 miles on a charge.
http://wheego.net/more/
Extra layers on me don't defrost the windshield or side windows, don't run the headlights since it's usually dark in the mornings and evenings in the winter when I commute, and aren't going to provide the extra power required to blaze trail on yet unplowed or slushy streets.
Well obviously those problems can be easily mitigated by taping a flashlight to your hood, or installing pedals in the car to power the electrics - that serves the dual purpose not only of providing the barest amount of illumination possible, but also keeping you warmer at the same time.
No reason the excess power from pedaling couldn't go straight to the battery, extending your range by a mile or two and providing you with a mere 130 hour full charge should you get stuck on the road.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Also, the idea that a car MUST fit the above requirements to be on the market is changing. Especially now that a car can easily last 15 years, there is room in the marketplace for niche vehicles.
The sales figures for all electric cars say otherwise. Currently all-electrics are an ultra-niche. Most people need fairly general usage out of a car, even if they own two - the largest tradeoff they might make having one car that has much less capacity. But there are still a lot of times in a city when you need decent range in a days use.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Gasoline is deeply entrenched. Replacing it with hydrogen would mean replacing or upgrading the extensive distribution network of gas stations nationwide.
If electric cars ever become REALLY widespread, you'd have the same problem - only worse. Because of the lower range you'd have to have charging stations, and thus high voltage lines EVERYWHERE - in parking lots at work, at hotels, and also at gas stations.
Whereas with Hydrogen all you need is to add a different kind of tank to existing gas stations, eventually replacing the underground tanks with hydrogen tanks. People would continue to fill up at gas stations as per usual, just with a different and much cheaper (and cleaner) fuel.
It also doesn't have to happen everywhere, just a sprinkling of hydrogen stations around any major city and along major highways.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Electric cars are not about saving energy. They are about minimising pollution at street level in busy cities. The difference between the coal fired power station and the petroleum fueled vehicle is the pollution controls in the power station don't have to be small or move around, you can have more complete combustion, you can get a bit more energy out per kilogram of fuel and what's left over can go out a very tall stack.
You have all those same advantages with hydrogen. The actual cars are electric, with the motors powered by hydrogen, so the "emissions" is water. The power to create the hydrogen comes from a centralized source, or the sun.
The difference is that the hydrogen vehicle will have a much better range sooner, and we only need to overhaul some gas stations to start. With electric to become totally widespread, you have to upgrade electric plants all over, and add charging stations all over the place too.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Electric cars suck at the moment in range, recharge times and price tag. But they are far cheaper to run.
Someone living in California with an electric ca figured that with the higher electric bill they were getting, the electricity used was roughly equal to getting 70MPG going against the local gas prices...
That is better, but not FAR cheaper to run. And it doesn't even speak to the price of electricity if a lot more people needed to be charging electric cars.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
News for nerds? Stuff that matters? Taking a press release off a website that already copied it from another website is now 'news that matters'? It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't so obviously biased either. We're going to ignore the 100 mile all electric Ford Focus coming in late 2011, right? The Fiesta? Hell, how about mention of the Volt in there too, and the upcoming Tesla Sedan? But don't worry. We already know that only the Japanese can build and make cars.
Why would the battery run out? Unlike a gas engine, an electric car doesn't need to "idle".
Note the qualification, "with AC". AC uses a lot of power; in a car you'd simply steal a little from a belt running off the engine. But in the electric car you need to run the AC motor constantly, using up a much larger percentage of your "fuel" than you would in a an electric car.
Yes others have noted accessories run off a separate battery. But that presents two unpleasant scenarios:
1) You are stuck in the middle of traffic and the AC cuts out hours away from home.
2) The accessory battery runs out and to keep the AC going you start draining from the main battery, taking out your range.
Both unpleasant and not things you need to worry about as much in a car today. If you were pretty low of gas you might not run the AC either for a while - but only to make it to a gas station, not all the way home...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Plus of course those nasty oxides of nitrogen (since the combustion is happening in air) that turn into nitric acid when you breath them in to moist lungs. You don't get much of them but a wild absolute claim like that (emissions are only water) shows that you have either been very badly conned by PR or are deliberately attempting to fool others that you assume are either very poorly informed or of low intelligence.
That's not likely. Storage is still a problem and the WWII gas powered vehicle solution of a great big balloon on top of the vehicle to get extra storage capacity doesn't work very well with hydrogen. The stuff diffuses through things very easily so it's hard to keep it in plus it's not a very dense material even when highly compressed - which of course also takes a lot of energy to do.
Hydrogen is a battery not a power source. You can't drill for hydrogen. If you compare batteries you will see that hydrogen is a poor choice.
Plus of course those nasty oxides of nitrogen (since the combustion is happening in air) that turn into nitric acid when you breath them in to moist lungs. You don't get much of them but a wild absolute claim like that (emissions are only water) shows that you have either been very badly conned by PR or are deliberately attempting to fool others that you assume are either very poorly informed or of low intelligence.
Talk about low intelligence! Your claim took about fifteen seconds to dismiss from that evil PR tainted source, the U.S. Department of Energy on Hydrogen Vehicles...
You see, with a lot more than a high-school education and some practical experience with real life mechanical things, you will learn that even hydrogen cars can use emission scrubbers to get rid of trace nitrogen oxides... emissions are what comes OUT OF THE CAR. Which you will learn when you get one and have to have them tested.
That's not likely. Storage is still a problem and the WWII gas powered vehicle solution of a great big balloon on top of the vehicle to get extra storage capacity doesn't work very well with hydrogen
Well it's nice that your history class went well. But in the meantime lots of research has been going into alternative ways to store hydrogen.
You know, the thing about stupidity is that it's really a choice. It starts with ignorance, the thing that makes someone stupid is when they refuse to learn from new data. So are you an idiot or just ignorant? It is time for you to decide, a choice only you can make.
I will let you have the last reply, if you so wish - an ignorant man would learn from error and leave things lie, while the idiot always digs the hole deeper.
I know the shovel at your feet now tempts you mightily - but I urge you to put it down.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Govt must give 2 bicycles to car owners at the time of their vehicle registration.
I see electric cars really taking off only when, and not before, one can fully (or nearly fully) recharge at electric recharge stations in under 10 minutes, *AND*... these stations are ubiquitous enough around the country that it is wholly possible to travel in an electric car from anywhere in the country to anywhere else, taking the same sort of routes and driving at the same speeds as one would with a gas vehicle, and not have to worry about running out of energy before you are likely to get near another station.... which in some cases, would mean that they are going to have to have significantly more driving distance than fifty to a hundred miles... I'm thinking at least triple that.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
First, let's assume you are still talking about combustion even though you've mixed some very different technologies together and implied they are the same. I suggest you look up scubbers and see what is actually involved to ensure that nothing comes out apart from water. Consider that weight is an issue and you can't carry your own personal storage dam around.
That link you referred to is about HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS which do not burn anything, thus they emit nothing, thus going on about emissions there just demonstrates you've got two very different technologies mixed up. While fuel cells have come a long way over the last few decades they still need a huge surface area of electrodes made from reasonably exotic material to get a lot of power so are generally not considered for vehicles.
I also suggest that you look at those sources about hydrogen storage in a little bit more detail and consider how much fuel you can fit in a small vehicle and what the range inplications are - hence the "history lesson" about having huge amounts of storage on top.
The insults of course do not matter because you still have not informed me of anything I did not already know before your post, so it is still not clear if you have been tricked, wish to trick others or have a third option you have been unable to convey.
I still have an issue with the extremely blatant lie about hydrogen combustion producing nothing but water in a small mobile installation unless you were writing about fuel cells but failed to communicate that.
LMAO
These guys have ripped the trademark of an australian IT company. check out www.gizmo.com.au vs www.gizmocrazed.com
What happened to the electric Scion xB? Now that's a car I would buy instantly, if only it weren't so fucking expensive. There must have been some technical progress since 2003 that makes them more affordable?
Mightee, are you being paid to badmouth the Leaf? 50-mile Scion, 73-mile leaf and 85-mile Mitsu I? Uh, no. 50-mile Scion, 100-mile Leaf, and 85-mile Mitsu. Because the Scion and Mitsubishi numbers are given absolute-best-case, the Leaf numbers must be as well. Comparing tested to published numbers is a dick's game... or a shill's.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_cell :
"A fuel cell is an electrochemical cell that converts chemical energy from a fuel into electric energy."
Hydrogen cars will still use electric motors. Only batteries will be changed to H fuel tanks & fuel cells.
You thought hydrogen was going to be used in combustion engines as a replacement for gasoline? I think biobutanol will be logistically easier for that purpose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biobutanol
Get a push bike and get your groceries delivered FFS! Better for you, better for me, and cheaper.
My area has a chapter of an electric vehicle fan group. Many members are gearheads who have modded conventional compact cars to be purely electric running off of many conventional car batteries. 50 miles on a charge is about what their hacked vehicles do. My expectation is that Toyota with its engineers could have done better.
your talking about different batteries, they both use the same type of energy and the same type of engine.
Hydrogen fuel cells are just electric batteries, they are very different from lithium-ion batteries granted, and they are re-fueled in different ways. Hydrogen fuel cells have many advantages and a few disadvantages, but unfortunately none of that matters until you can find a way of efficiently harvesting hydrogen... currently the primary way is to split water with electricity which is very inefficient...
Pricing and trims haven't been announced, but reviewers expect the iQ to start around $12,000.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I have a Leaf. My commute is just under 20 miles one way, most of it on the freeway at 65+Mph speeds and since this is summer in SoCal, the A/C is running pretty much all the time. When I leave the car usually says I have 90 miles of range; when I get home the car says I have somewhere between 40-50 miles of range left.
I haven't gotten to the point of "driving on electron fumes" yet, but I have gotten it down to about 15 miles of range left. That took about 75 miles of driving, so assuming there really was 15 miles of range left, the effective range on average seems to be around 90 miles. Which of course is less than 100 but more than 73.
A high performance generator on an RV can run for 10-12 hours on 4 gallons of gas and run and Air conditioner, refrigerator, lights, charge a laptop, run the radio without problem. Wouldn't using one of these high performance generators in place of batteries make an efficient alternative. Range and refueling time and locations fixed. I'm not sure power infrastructure where I live could support everyone in my neighborhood if they had to charge their vehicles. Not to mention that none of these vehicle have enough range to make my daily commute on a single charge.
Wow, you don't say - an electric car can actually go the claimed range under perfect conditions? Stunning!
Try that in December with a half foot of snow and write back.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Some posters seem to miss the (huge) advantage that electric vehicles have vs gas, hydrogen etc. powered vehicles- they are decoupled from a specific energy source. Solar, nuclear, coal, wind ALL work as electric car fuel. Hydrogen requires a vast infrastructure that doesn't exist yet, but you can charge an e-car Right Now with whatever electrical supply you happen to have. Charge from solar/wind at home, charge from evil coal at work, whatever. The electric car is an omnivore. Bio-diesel is interesting because you can make your own, but the electric car democratizes the energy input for transport to a much higher degree. PLUS it breaks the tight linkage between car maker and fuel supplier that exists now, and would also likely exit for hydrogen-based cars.
There are already "high voltage" lines everywhere
Not to every parking meter. Not to every parking spot in a garage. Not even in your own garage... you need higher voltage lines for faster charging times, and they have to be installed everywhere as I said.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
But not at $12K a car, when the batteries account for the majority of the costs.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.