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Army's Huge SAP Project 'At High Risk'

itwbennett writes "The Army's $2.4 billion SAP project is delayed, over budget, and, once implemented may not even meet its original objectives, according to a recent auditors' report. For its part, the Army is less concerned with the auditors' findings about the project that will manage a $140 billion annual budget and serve nearly 80,000 users once it is complete: 'The Army believes the risks identified in this report are manageable and do not materially impact the [project's] cost and schedule,' said an official with the Assistant Secretary of the Army (Acquisition, Logistics, and Technology)."

13 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. That's what you get by sortius_nod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you go with SAP.

    1. Re:That's what you get by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly, the thing with a SAP rollout (or anything else of this magnitude) is that you pass the point of no return quite early into the project and then the consultants have you exactly where they want you - you can't go back now to your old system, but the new system doesn't really do what you expected it to either so as expensive as it seems, it's cheaper to keep paying more to fix the new system than it would be to migrate everything back to the old system...

      Once it's all in place and working as it should, SAP can be a fantastic thing to have but getting there is _never_ as straightforward as one would be lead to believe initially.

    2. Re:That's what you get by trevelyon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep, never been involved in any SAP implementations but I've seen several. Not one was completed anywhere near the deadline or original budget. Additionally, none of the companies got what they thought they were going to from it (always decreased deliverables). Mind you this is a relatively small implementation pool (5 companies) but zero successes is not a good sign.

    3. Re:That's what you get by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Story I heard second hand where jeff is a friend of a family member:

      There was once a small startup where the founders noticed that most of the software for handling a particular task was needlessly complex and stupidly hard to use.

      So they created their own version which was apparently good and very easy to use. the few customers they did pull in were very happy with it but they couldn't seem to break into the big leagues.

      They discovered that some such attempts to sell their software to big corps had been shot down by the local consultants.

      They tried contacting the big consulting firms to try to find out what they considered to be wrong with their software so that they could fix whatever problem was putting off the consultants but got back useless boilerplate replies just stating that they didn't think it was suitable.

      Then one night in the bar at an exhibition one of the founders (lets call him jeff) got chatting candidly to someone from one of the big consulting firms(lets call him carl).

      So jeff asked carl if he'd seen their software and what he thought of it.
      carl said that it was quite excellent.
      jeff asked why then did carls firm recommend against their clients using it.
      Carls reply was that it was simply too easy to use and too easy to set up.
      If Carls company recommended a worse piece of software that was hellish to set up then they were guaranteed many many billable hours as the client would be almost guaranteed to need consulting services.

      So jeff went home and his startup set to work adding a myriad of essentially useless options and made the software vastly harder to configure.

      it was still the same software once it was running but now the manual was a tome rather than a pamphlet and the setup took an expert rather than an amateur.

      Like magic sales went up as consultants were suddenly willing to recommend it to their clients.

  2. Not surprised by edgedmurasame · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The only people who will get something out of SAP are the consultants who get paid to "fix" it.

    --
    "Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
  3. Another money sink... by spaceplanesfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why that isn't cancelled, but Webbs telescope is? Ah, its thats the Army....
    RIP US space program

  4. Re:Government IT projects by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because:

    a) They always employ people with the right connections instead of the right competence

    b) Because the consultants they hire know the real money comes from doing it wrong? Why make an effort to deliver on schedule and under budget when you can take your time over it and earn twice as much money in the process?

    You might think I'm joking but I've sat in some of the meetings. When I arrived I was under the delusion that I was there to do some work but I was completely wrong, we were only there to kill time before going off to a nice little French restaurant somebody had discovered. My bad.

    --
    No sig today...
  5. Re:Government IT projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    c) They still believe in Waterfall development methodology. They also believe in "fixed-price" contracts. It's the change requests that kill you. The consultants gladly build what you asked for. Then when you realize that you really didn't know what you wanted, they have you.

  6. It's not gov't, it's SAP by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It fails just as often in the private sector, the difference being that there, the client usually goes bankrupt before you hear about it.

  7. Great product? by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 4, Funny

    - The user interface is the worst of any software product I've ever used, and I'm not exaggerating.

    - The user documentation is even worse

    - I'm told the developer documentation is worser still, esp. if you don't speak German.

    - COBOL is so fucking awesome.

    - It costs a leg, an arm, your first born and your left nuts. Oh and your soul.

  8. Re:Government IT projects by cyber-vandal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It doesn't happen in the competitive private sector.

    Yes it does. You just don't get to hear about it either because it's confidential or because private sector waste isn't a good story.

    People do a project because it makes/saves money, and then make it work.

    I have worked on many projects in the private sector and heard about plenty more where the IT director has believed what a salesman told them and ended up with an absolute disaster. What you say might be true for SMBs but big organisations are not too different to the public sector.

  9. C and ABAP by kleinesRaedchen · · Score: 3, Informative

    The SAP R/3 kernel is written in C. The application layer is written in ABAP and can be extended in ABAP or Java. So, the the claim with COBOL is BS.

  10. Re:Government IT projects by bertok · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, I'm a consultant working primarily for government, and I can honestly say that those aren't the reasons why these projects fail.

    Corruption in hiring is surprisingly rare in western countries, and usually involves only a small subset of the people on a large project. I've heard it's a serious problem in developing countries, but I've only seen it a few times here, and and I've only ever seen it lead to a project failure when the project team was only a handful of people.

    You'd be surprised about the work ethic of consultants.

    For some consulting organizations, there's so much work that they prefer to have their consultants finish projects quickly so that they can go on to other projects and hence satisfy all of their customers, not just some of them. Not turning up at all is a surefire way of losing a customer to your competition, which can go from nonexistent to serious in very little time if they suddenly start landing big projects.

    More commonly, consulting is only a part of what a company does. Large vendors like SAP sell licenses, support contracts, and consulting separately. If one branch of the company starts annoying the customers (too expensive, slow, incompetent, etc...) then this drags down the results of other branches too, and then their executives become very angry and complain directly to the CEO. God help the consultant working for an organization that makes most of their profit from licenses if the fuck up a sales deal!

    Lastly, consulting firms tend to hire better-than-average people, and those tend to be high achievers and motivated professionals. Delivering projects on time and on budget looks good on a CV, and can lead to even more lucrative positions.

    I've seen enough projects that I've figured out that government contracts go over budget or time for several inter-related reasons:

    - Ridiculous levels of risk aversion -- if there's no bonus or profit to be had, then no risk is worth it. This leads to some very stupid decisions, over-engineering, etc...
    - Management overhead -- big bureaucracies ignore the cost of management overhead, because the only way to reduce it is to fire a bunch of managers, but management makes hiring and firing decisions! Almost nobody would ever fire themselves. Instead, managers rationalize the need for management. There's no arguing with people about useless processes, when the existence of that process, useful or not, keeps them employed.
    - Conservative approach to IT -- a big project is hard enough, but when you also have to deal with decades old software and sometimes even hardware, the difficulty becomes astronomical. In quite recent times, I've come across all sorts of fun things in the core infrastructure of large organizations. For example, OS/2 is still in use. Novell NetWare refuses to die. I've seen Windows 95 as a server in a data center just recently. I did a lot of work on an enterprise DOS application just a couple of years ago. It's not just systems, but processes to. Why change anything, just because the software is completely different, and the hardware is six orders of magnitude bigger or faster?

    So imagine being the consultant hired to rip up and replace 10s of millions of lines of code across hundreds of undocumented systems, most of which should have been cleansed with purifying fire decades ago, but you're not allowed to. Instead, you have to sit patiently through a never ending series of pointless meetings that serve only to prevent any bureaucrat from ever having to make a decision, or take any blame for anything.