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Scientists Breeding Super Bees

Elliot Chang writes "Over the last five years the world's honey bee population has been steadily dwindling, with many beekeepers citing 2010 as the worst year yet. In order to save these extremely important insects, scientists are working on breeding a new super honey bee that they hope will be resistant to cold, disease, mites and pesticides. If all goes well, the new and improved insect will continue to pollinate our crops for years to come."

37 of 248 comments (clear)

  1. They tried this already. by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't this how we got "killer bees" in the first place?

    1. Re:They tried this already. by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Worst case scenario would be that they fail. From TFA:

      bees pollinate 90% of the world’s food crops

      This is not like tinkering around with a ton of fissile material for a lawn ornament, this is breeding bees to ensure we have food. Creating a second breed of killer bees is not a nightmare scenario. There have been 11 deaths in the US due to killer bees since the 90's. Imagine we create a killer bee variety that's worse, and that number rises a thousandfold. Compare that nightmare scenario to 90% of the crops worldwide failing to be pollinated.

      Which would you rather risk?

      If you're that paranoid that every article about biological research makes you worry about "I am legend" scenarios or clouds of murderous insects, I don't know what you're doing typing on a computer. Skynet and the matrix people! What could possibly go wrong?!?

    2. Re:They tried this already. by 246o1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mod Parent Up!

      Not only is the killer bee problem much less of a problem than people think it is, but the potential loss of the world's honeybees is a much WORSE problem than people think it is. It's another case of the less-sexy story being more important by orders of magnitude.

      --
      Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
    3. Re:They tried this already. by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd rather not risk either.

      You're offering up a false dichotomy, that it is "either this, or that". Nothing is further from the truth. SOMETHING is going on with the bees, and we had better find out what it is. If it is really THAT dire, then this is an "all hands on deck" moment for science. Trying to fix the bees when it is not their fault is stupid.

      Thinking we know better than nature is just plain arrogance, which might just kill us all, and may be why we're in this boat to start with.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:They tried this already. by black+soap · · Score: 2

      Worst case scenario would be they work for a while, long enough that we become dependent solely on them, and then they fail. Imagine a scenario where they survive, but find it easier to pollinate non-crop foods. They discover a niche that doesn't benefit us.

    5. Re:They tried this already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thinking we know better than nature is just plain arrogance, which might just kill us all, and may be why we're in this boat to start with.

      Thinking that nature knows anything is just as arrogant.
      What makes you think that nature won't kill us all if left alone?

    6. Re:They tried this already. by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're offering up a false dichotomy, that it is "either this, or that". Nothing is further from the truth. SOMETHING is going on with the bees, and we had better find out what it is. If it is really THAT dire, then this is an "all hands on deck" moment for science. Trying to fix the bees when it is not their fault is stupid.

      And you're offering up another false dichotomy. We try to make resistant bees AND we try to solve the problem with the mites. There are other scientists working on the problem with the existing bees. We have enough scientists to work on both. Hopefully we'll solve the problem without breeding new bees. If that fails, hopefully we can fix the bees.

      Not trying to make resistant bees because "it's not their fault" is stupid. Plus, that's not really what we do. Aside from fish, we domesticate (read: fiddle with the genetics of) everything we eat or use in the production of food. Why would bees be any different?

    7. Re:They tried this already. by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Ghhhhaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:They tried this already. by IICV · · Score: 4, Informative

      Thinking that nature thinks, and that if it does it cares at all about our survival, is pretty much the stupidest thing I can imagine.

      Nature doesn't give a shit about us, or about anything. It just is - and if, in the process of nature taking its course, humanity is wiped out in the most horrific way possible, then nature doesn't care at all.

      So yes, we can know better than nature - because nature doesn't know anything at all.

    9. Re:They tried this already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We already know what it is killing the bees.

      A Germany company called Bayer developed a widely-used insecticide called imidacloprid destroys a bee's immune system at extremely low doses. Bees pick it up in large amounts when they visit plants that were sprayed with the insecticide, carry it back to their hive, and it spreads around rapidly. Then the bees die from any normal illness they would otherwise be able to fight off.

      One of the earliest trials in Germany resulted in all bees within the test site dying in a matter of months. For whatever reason, Bayer decided not to stop and continued to develop the insecticide. They've always known from the earliest steps about its lethality.

      Bayer has been actively trying to withhold scrutiny of their product and are suing/threatening everyone that implies they are responsible. At least in the US, the EPA isn't doing anything so it may be up to other countries to investigate and find Bayer accountable for this mess.

      So to be absolutely clear, this entire bee problem is due to Bayer selling an insecticide that adversely affects bees as a side-effect worldwide. I really wish the media would make a bigger stink about it. It's not a mystery fungus or global warming.

    10. Re:They tried this already. by leenks · · Score: 2

      If this is true, the parent should be modded up (there are plenty of articles suggesting it needs more research - eg http://www.fastcompany.com/1710746/bayer-our-bee-toxic-pesticide-is-actually-safe-for-bees)

    11. Re:They tried this already. by leenks · · Score: 2

      Yes, it is more like 70-80% of crops (http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2007/0703-honeybee_decline.htm). The World is still fucked without them.

      Oh, you meant in the USA, where most of the food (as here in the UK) eaten is manufactured crap - so yeah, optimistically 30% of the food the USA consumes (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1005_041005_honeybees.html).

      Clearly this isn't a problem at all.

  2. What's the problem? by Normal+Dan · · Score: 2

    Have they figured out exactly why bee population is dwindling? It seems like they are just fixing the symptoms instead of the actual problem.

    --
    A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
    1. Re:What's the problem? by AutumnLeaf · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a fair bit of info on the wikipedia page for Colony Collapse Disorder...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder

    2. Re:What's the problem? by AutumnLeaf · · Score: 2

      And.... http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/poisoned-pollen

      Which points to an insecticide weakening the bees enough for a parasite to finish them off.

    3. Re:What's the problem? by drbunny · · Score: 2

      In addition to the pesticide Imidacloprid linked below in organic gardening, leaked documents pretty clearly show a known link between ANOTHER BAYER PESTICIDE, clothianidin being a contributor to CCD.

  3. This had a bad end the last time this was tried by smoothnorman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lest we forget the "Brazilian killer bee" problem, (which, I believe is still an issue), was the result of a good intention to improve the bee breed by increasing their active response via cross-breeding with more aggressive African strains. Then (as the story goes) someone (c1957) left off the queen excluder (grill that prevents from the queen from becoming a "free agent") and as a result dangerous bees escaped into the wild and several terrible horror films were born. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee

  4. Awesome. by God'sDuck · · Score: 2

    I'm hoping they aren't stingy with the modifications.

    Hone your puns, folks. Fi hive.

    1. Re:Awesome. by hellkyng · · Score: 2

      Good point, exciting new mods will create quite the buzz.

    2. Re:Awesome. by Captain+Sarcastic · · Score: 3, Informative

      I couldn't think of a good response to this. I guess I'll have to wing it.

      --
      Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
    3. Re:Awesome. by Abstrackt · · Score: 2

      Watch this thread get swarmed by nerds with bee puns.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
  5. Scientist #1: The bee population is falling! by inject_hotmail.com · · Score: 4, Funny

    Scientist #2: Well, let's figure out why, and attempt to correct the cause...

    Scientist #1: No, wait! We can use our powers of scientifity to create a new, ultraimpervious, megastrong bee...that way it'll survive anything we do to make it's natural habitat inhospitable...

    Scientist #2: Hmmm, you might be on to something...but what if it's not just the environment? What if it's some other natural evolution of another species that is now a predator to the bee?

    Scientist #1: Fuck that shit. It's gonna die up against our new SuperBee(R).

    Scientist #2: I'm almost convinced. What if this strikes an unnatural balance across the continent? How can we be sure that we don't fuck shit up for everything else?

    Scientist #1: Think of the money we're going to make once we patent the gene!

    Scientist #2: Holy shit, your solution is perfect! Let's get our friends to write some endorsements, and we'll be golden.

    Scientist #1: I'm glad we've come to an understanding.

  6. Digital Dog and the DNA monster by scharkalvin · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of a cartoon that was circulating around Digital Equipment Co. in the 1970's. Written by a DEC employee the strip's hero was Digital Dog, a super K9 whose owner had feed him LSD to make him smart. Anyway it seems some scientists wanted to create a cure for some disease so they combined the DNA from Killer Bees with the DNA of "Tricky Dick" (don't ask!). Anyway they ended up with a huge bee with Nixon's face and appetite for cottage cheese and ketchup.
    Digital Dog had to trap him so NASA could get him strapped to rockets to blast him into space.

    The same cartoonist latter wrote for Creative computing and a few other magazines a strip called "bit pit" which starred a VAX computer.

  7. Re:Why can't we figure out what's killing the bees by GeekBoy · · Score: 2
  8. Re:Hey! while you're at it, lose the stinger! by vlm · · Score: 2

    No reason they can't get rid of the stinger

    Then the bears (etc) will eat them all and we'll have no wild population left. Probably not a good idea, long term.

    For safetys sake, I advise experimenting by killing all the mosquitos first, then once you know what made mosquitos extinct, try not doing that to the bees.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  9. I'm a Bee Keeper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not exactly.

    Over in parts of Brazil, someone imported African honey bees to raise in CLOSED enclosures, and like all pets they escaped into the surrounding terrain when the colonies became large and their containment was challenged.

    What I find odd is how quickly the African honey bees inter-bred with the native wild bee populations, and it didn't take long for the native bees to show traits that not even the original parent strains had shown. In my experience of managing several 40K hives with a single queen in them, the difference between a Africanized hive and a normal hive is 9 of 10 bees will attack you from an Africanized hive as opposed to a normal hive where 1 of 10 will only "investigate" and then 1 of 20 will actually try to sting you.

    In contrast, Africanized honey bees produce less honey and are over-active in a schizzophrenic way, where when disturbed they will actually survey upto 2 miles around their hive to aggressively attack anything that moves and will remain this way notably longer than non-Africanized populations. In reality, all bees that have stingers are the females and they die after stinging once because they have a barbed stinger that rips their intestines and poison gland out of their abdomen (except the queen, she is barb-less). Why have Africanized bees not simply died-off from their suicidal attacks then? They key is cross-breeding, where only a fraction of thier genetics remains after a 50/50 mating of the original strain gets reduced to verry low genetic footprint after successive mating with other bees. Also of note, because the queen mates only once are rarely more in her life, her collection of male reproductive matterial is stored for her life inside her and it's as though it is preserved, and with successive matings that queen might lay eggs that hatch either pure non-Africanized bees or native bees: there is her genetic footprint, and then there is the share of potential offspring that are fertilized with a pre-stored African contribution.

    In my opinion, scientists realy are the ones to blame: they are introducing unnatural successive genetic statistic into a genome that wasn't aquired through natural selection. With all the corruption of Monsanto Corporation, and the corruption of prior US Army partnerships to USDA to enrich and cross-breed dangerous animals and bacteria and fungus for warfare, you simply can't trust the scientists to ever having any wholesome ethics: the scientists themselves should be given the same suspicion as would when approaching a bee hive you suspect has lost it's native queen and could be turning into African bees with a new queen.

    In reality, there are higher-quality bees that produce more honey, not as destructive when agitated, have better social customs, and are more patient in their lifestyle. The average European Honey Bee lives anywhere from 2 to 4 months, but a Africanized bee lives less than 3 weeks. That alone is proof that the Africanized strain is destructive to itself if not just a bastard to it's surroundings. By far in yield and quality of honey, the greatest replacement to the Africanized bees, as well as to phase-out all Honey Bees due to the recent contamination, I would choose the Denmark Black Bee. Like the Denmark red cow, the Black Bee is endangered. I find that quite saddening how such a higher-quality animal is always the one on the bench.

  10. Just one? by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 2

    "If all goes well, the new and improved insect will continue to pollinate our crops for years to come."

    Wow, that's going to be one super busy bee.

    But isn't that putting all our gets in one basket? I mean, maybe we want *two* of them just in case one dies?

    --
    -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
  11. The widely-cited "90%" is wrong. by sirwired · · Score: 4, Informative

    The widely-quoted "90% of the world's crops depend on bees" is simply wrong.

    The vast majority of the world's caloric intake comes from grains, legumes, and tubers, the vast majority of which require do not bee pollination.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees

    1. Re:The widely-cited "90%" is wrong. by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Clearly people are not drinking enough Mead. Think of the Vikings!

    2. Re:The widely-cited "90%" is wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep. Corn, wheat, rice, sorghum, cassava, and potatoes, among others, can get by just fine without bees. Notice anything about those crops? They're the most important staples. A world without bees would certainty suck, it would limit the ability to produce certain fruits (like apples) and increase the cost of seed production for non-fruit vegetables (like onions), but I doubt it would be the apocalypse that it is made out to be. Worst case scenario is an increased need for parthenocarpic & self fertilizing crops and an increased cost for those that don't. Again, not an ideal situation, but it is those staple crops that are the most important, not the tasty produce ones..granted, they are the nutrient dense ones, but still.

  12. Re:Stung? Sue Monsanto .... by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    That's not how the New World Order works, citizen 1327877: get stung by engineered bee and Monsanto sues your ass for having their patented bee DNA stuck in your skin

  13. What could go wrong? by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 2

    NEWS FLASH!

    Transgenic bees found able to crossbreed with dragonflies!

    The resulting insects have five to six inch wingspans, stingers able to pierce Kevlar and really nasty dispositions.

    Scientists have dubbed them "dragonbees" and are said to be feverishly at work on a transgenic predator to combat the problem.

    More at 6:00PM

    --
    Some days it's just not worth
    chewing through my restraints.
    1. Re:What could go wrong? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Don't worry. The LizardFrogs will eat the DragonBees. And the BirdSnakes will eat the LizardFrogs. The GorillaBears will eat the BirdSnakes and then will die when winter rolls around.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  14. Natural selection by Chicken_Kickers · · Score: 2

    I don't understand this fetishism with "natural selection" by salt of the earth types every time genetic engineering comes up. Natural selection is random, meaning you can equally get "desirable" traits as well as "undesirable" traits (from the point of view of humans). Genetic engineering increases the chances that you can produce "desirable" traits and with proper precautions, reduce the chances of undesirable traits. With Africanised bees, it is not even the fault of modern genetic engineering. It was the fault of "traditional" breeding of two bee strains. That's right. The same acceptable and ancient method used to breed modern cows,bananas, carrots etc. is also capable of creating Frankensteins. The fear of genetic engineering has been drummed into the public by certain Greenie groups with their own agenda. It is unwarranted. When you put safeties in place to prevent accidental cross breeding of GM animals/plants and wild animals/plants by making them infertile, you are accused of money grabbing and playing God. If you don't do it, then you are accused of endangering "natural" genetic populations.

  15. a worthless band aid on a systemic problem by australopithecus · · Score: 2

    most of the issues with honeybee susceptibility to mites, etc. comes from the desire to turn beehives into reproducible factories. much like antibiotic resistant bacteria, we are developing insecticide resistant mites. how about a return to more traditional beekeeping methods, which would result in jobs being created as more care is needed to manage the hives?

  16. Invasive species from europe by ron-l-j · · Score: 2

    The honey bee is invasive it originated in Europe and has been spread around the world by man. I did a report on this in my environmental science class in college last year. Where I live we have natural bees that do more pollination than any small collection of honey bees in hives. SCCD or Sudden colony collapse disorder when the queen leave the nest for no apparent reason is not going to affect us at all. Maybe the American Indians couldn't grow corn before the European honey bee was introduced in america. There are plenty of healthy native bees out there doing the job. But I would lie about some garbage to get scientific funding too..... The whole Idea is insane.

  17. Humans greed is the bee killer by lsatenstein · · Score: 2

    When you start doing biological gene modification to the plants that bees go to pollinate, so that farmers will have to purchase seed, because the one they have is sterile, or genetically modified to be toxic to insects and bees, then this is the price we pay. In other words, get back to regular seeds that were in use before the modified ones were forced on the cultivators of flowers, grain, vegetables, fruits.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada